Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

[SSridhar]

History dating back to August 2009.

Dr C. Christine Fair, then with Rand, clarifies her Balochistan comment in this interview with Outlook Magazine:

'Pakistanis Have Blown My Comments Out Of Proportion'

Yes, that was after the Sharm-el-Sheikh fiasco and after India said it was willing to include Balochistan terror issue in talks. That's what I meant.

[shiv]

Question for S Sridhar:

What are the affiliations/loyalties of the Islami Jamiat Talaba (IJT) as opposed to those of the Jammat ud Dawa?

Shiv, IJT is the militant student wing Jama'at-e-Islami, modelled after Hitler's Youth Brigade. IJT is very active in the Punjab & Karachi universities. The Punjab University has been completely hijacked by the IJT. Again, that was a strategy devised by ZAB who wanted to defeat the Leftists and therefore let loose the IJT on the PU. As it is always true in Pakistan, it was the IJT which played a significant role in the ouster of ZAB as well. IJT took active participation in East Pakistan and then in Kashmir under Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. Within PU, IJT is able to enforce strict Islamic codes with impunity because of the support received from faculty members as well as administration staff many of whom are themselves radical. In Karachi, the IJT faces significant opposition from the MQM-affiliated APMSO (All Party Mohajir Students' Organization). They clash violently on the Karachi streets every now and then. Zia-ul-Haq banned all student movements except IJT and that was lifted only in c. 2008 by Gilani. Like the IJT which operates in mainstream Pakistani Universities, the JI also has a student wing that operates among the Taliban-producing madrassah. It is known as Jamia’at Talaba Arabia (JTA) most of whose members are Pathans as well. Many members of Jandullah (which was created by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) are ex-IJT. That includes the Amir of Jandullah, Ata-ur-Rehman.

Sridhar thanks. But my query was also in the context of whether the IJT is also anti-Shia/Ahmedi or not. My thought process has been sparked after reading Fair's pdf and her observations about LeT - which she says recruits the relatively educated but takes care not to upset the Paki establishment applecart. Could there be any source of ideological friction between LeT and IJT?

[SSridhar]

But my query was also in the context of whether the IJT is also anti-Shia/Ahmedi or not. My thought process has been sparked after reading Fair's pdf and her observations about LeT - which she says recruits the relatively educated but takes care not to upset the Paki establishment applecart. Could there be any source of ideological friction between LeT and IJT?

Shiv, 'sectarianism' is the one of the faces of all these Islamist and terrorist parties. They are all anti-Shia and anti-Ahmedi. JI is close to KSA's ruling class. Ideologically, JI is the fountainhead of modern day jihad in Pakistan. The IJT is a student wing whereas LeT does not have a specific student wing. I do not find any ideological differences between LeT & IJT (actually, its parent organization JI) either. As a terrorist organization, IJT is not in the same class as LeT. The two cannot be compared.

[pgbhat]

Over 7000 Pakistanis may get Indian citizenship

Chandigarh: As many as 7000 Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan, who are residing in India even after the expiry of their visa, are most likely to get Indian citizenship quite soon.

This information was given by the Union Home Secretary in response to a letter sent in this regard to Rajya Sabha member Avinash Rai Khanna.

The Indian government had before December 2004 indentified 7635 such Pakistani citizens.

[shiv]

But my query was also in the context of whether the IJT is also anti-Shia/Ahmedi or not. My thought process has been sparked after reading Fair's pdf and her observations about LeT - which she says recruits the relatively educated but takes care not to upset the Paki establishment applecart. Could there be any source of ideological friction between LeT and IJT?

Shiv, 'sectarianism' is the one of the faces of all these Islamist and terrorist parties. They are all anti-Shia and anti-Ahmedi. JI is close to KSA's ruling class. Ideologically, JI is the fountainhead of modern day jihad in Pakistan. The IJT is a student wing whereas LeT does not have a specific student wing. I do not find any ideological differences between LeT & IJT (actually, its parent organization JI) either. As a terrorist organization, IJT is not in the same class as LeT. The two cannot be compared.

Sridhar, Christine Fair claims that the LeT would not like to target oppose the Paki government (the feeling is reciprocated by the army). Raman in a 2007 article said this
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r2526.html

3. There is no confirmed instance of the LET indulging in planned anti-Shia violence in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but the LEJ has been responsible for most of the targeted attacks on Shias and their places of worship in Pakistan and on the Hazaras---who are Shias---in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
<snip>
6. In 2002-03, Western intelligence agencies did not pay much attention to LET activities in the Pakistani diaspora. They tended to disregard Indian evidence about the new role of the LET as the operational facilitator of Al Qaeda since they suspected that Indian officials and non-governmental analysts tended to over-project the LET's role in the West because of its activities in Indian territory. However, the discovery of LET sleeper cells in the Western countries post-2002 changed this attitude and Indian evidence on the LET was treated with greater seriousness. Next to the Arab members of Al Qaeda, suspected Pakistani members of the LET were placed under close surveillance in many countries. This created difficulties in the movement and activities of the LET. The LET is no longer able to operate outside the Indian sub-continent as freely as it used to do in the past.

7. Moreover, the LET is feeling uncomfortable over the anti-Shia violence unleashed by Al Qaeda and its surrogates in Iraq. While continuing to be a member of the IIF, it is trying to avoid being associated with Al Qaeda's anti-Shia and anti-Saudi policies.

Is the LeT "secular" (the real meaning of secular is not intended here) ? Is the LeT involved in any anti Ahmadi and Anti-Shia activities? I believe it is important to know this because if the LeT is sectarian and not "secular" it means the Paki establishment is also sectarian. That would be an exploitable area. Being anti Shia in particular could be utilised against the LeT by getting Iran involved.

[jrjrao]

Lovely, from Joel Brinkley, once again.

I bet C. UnFair unloads on this piece big time in her twitter twitties tomorrow, since we know that she cannot handle gently anybody making fun of her sugar daddies in Pindi.

Poor Pakistan, having to help for only $22 billion

JOEL BRINKLEY COMMENTARY

Poor Pakistan.

The United States has bullied and abused the country for so long, forcing it to take $22 billion in aid, that it’s no wonder intelligence agents are showing up at the doors of people with pro-American biases, threatening to kill them.

After all, now that President Obama has laid out his strategy for Afghan withdrawal — while belligerently demanding Pakistan “keep its commitments” — some analysts say American forces can’t withdraw completely because the U.S. needs a base for cross border strikes into Pakistan. The killing of Osama bin Laden in May was the model.

Can’t Washington see the bin Laden raid destabilized the nation? Is it surprising the military arrested 30 people accused of helping the U.S. plan the assault?

“You want to know what happened and how, and who was involved,” explained Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s apologist, er, ambassador in Washington.

The U.S. didn’t tell Pakistan of the raid in advance for fear someone would tip off the target. Pakistanis were outraged. Then, twice in June, just after the U.S. gave the Pakistani army precise intelligence about militant bomb-making factories, the militants fled the facilities.

Pakistan’s relationship with America is now perfectly poisonous. Pakistan insists that’s our fault. “We can’t win the so-called American war on terror,” said Imran Khan, head of a Pakistani political party. “This is an unending war, and it will crush the backbone of the country.”

So why allow the U.S. to fire drone missiles into areas used by al-Qaida and others?

Sure, militants killed 32 Pakistanis in a June bombing, later blew up an elementary school and then sent man-and-wife suicide bombers to kill 10 policemen. That’s just a small sampling. Pakistani press reports note terrorists have killed 35,000 Pakistanis in recent years.

Pakistanis aver that’s retaliation for a U.S. presence. The army demands an end to drone attacks — and cut off U.S. food and water deliveries to the drone base.

Yet, the U.S. keeps sending in diplomats and intelligence officers, hoping to help the nation fight terror. Pakistan refuses to give them visas.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton visited Islamabad, and said the Pakistanis promised “some very specific actions” in the near future to show their commitment to fighting terror. Well, Pakistan has certainly delivered.

On Monday, militants set ablaze three trucks carrying supplies to American troops in Afghanistan. No one was arrested.

Earlier, the intelligence service flatly denied that it assassinated journalist Syed Saleem Shahzad, an investigative reporter, just after he wrote an article showing Islamic militants had infiltrated the military. A short time later, they arrested a senior officer, Brigadier Ali Khan, and four others on charges of collaborating with an Islamic militant organization, Hizb ut-Tahrir. (The arrests came after the BBC reported Khan’s complicity.)

The New York Times quoted military head Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani complaining Pakistan had “mortgaged itself to the United States.

“We are helpless,” General Kayani lamented. “Can we fight America?”

It’s certainly comforting to know the government tried to expel that reporter, noting General Kayani “has not said a single word of what the New York Times has published.”

As American officials see it, Pakistan may be the world’s most perfidious nation. Surely you can see that they are misinformed.

[UBanerjee]

Why spend so much energy on one woman? I bet no other lay community cares this much about what Ms. Fair has to say.

This is a tiny bit of energy and neural resources - approx. that in my middle finger. If boring, do skip.

Just saying, that showering attention on this pipsqueak only serves to puff up her importance and encourage her to engage in "debate".

If she was an important analyst then sure, it would be important to rebut her "fair" articles.

[Sriman]

Is the LeT "secular" (the real meaning of secular is not intended here) ? Is the LeT involved in any anti Ahmadi and Anti-Shia activities? I believe it is important to know this because if the LeT is sectarian and not "secular" it means the Paki establishment is also sectarian. That would be an exploitable area. Being anti Shia in particular could be utilised against the LeT by getting Iran involved.

Shiv, my impression is that LeT does not publicly project an anti-Shia stance but odds are most members of LeT will be virulently anti-Shia. As far as i know Sipah-e-Sahaba and Lashkar-e-Jhangvi are the only organizations (among the big ones) that predominatly have an anti-Shia outlook. And Shia organizations like Sipah-e-Muhammad tend to target members of these two groups, especially the first. Rest of them while being anti-Shia (just like they are anti-Jew to please their Arabian masters) probably don't really see Shias being important enough to go after. They have bigger fish to fry, so as to speak. I think outside Sindh, Shias probably don't have the numbers to take the Deobandis/Wahabbis on. In Karachi, its a free for all. I think it's impossible to generalize, there seems to be a tendency to put aside differences for a higher cause. JMT.

Edit: Just to clarify, LeT is a an Ahl-E-Hadith group so their initiation will certainly involve indoctrination against Shias. So it is not that they tolerate Shias. But i'm not sure if there are instances of them going after Shias for them to invite the wrath of Iran. LeJ has killed an active Iranian diplomat and Iranian cadets.

[ramana]

Why spend so much energy on one woman? I bet no other lay community cares this much about what Ms. Fair has to say.

Indians dont go after the troublemakers while they are still low stature. In late 70s Uneven Cohen was developing and was not countered. And now he is a uvacha instead of a bhonka like a pagal kutta.

[Pranav]

Why spend so much energy on one woman? I bet no other lay community cares this much about what Ms. Fair has to say.

Indians dont go after the troublemakers while they are still low stature. In late 70s Uneven Cohen was developing and was not countered. And now he is a uvacha instead of a bhonka like a pagal kutta.

A good point. Need to nip the troublemakers in the bud.

[SSridhar]

Sridhar, Christine Fair claims that the LeT would not like to target oppose the Paki government (the feeling is reciprocated by the army). Raman in a 2007 article said this
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r2526.html

3. There is no confirmed instance of the LET indulging in planned anti-Shia violence in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but the LEJ has been responsible for most of the targeted attacks on Shias and their places of worship in Pakistan and on the Hazaras---who are Shias---in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
<snip>
7. Moreover, the LET is feeling uncomfortable over the anti-Shia violence unleashed by Al Qaeda and its surrogates in Iraq. While continuing to be a member of the IIF, it is trying to avoid being associated with Al Qaeda's anti-Shia and anti-Saudi policies.

Is the LeT "secular" (the real meaning of secular is not intended here) ? Is the LeT involved in any anti Ahmadi and Anti-Shia activities? I believe it is important to know this because if the LeT is sectarian and not "secular" it means the Paki establishment is also sectarian. That would be an exploitable area. Being anti Shia in particular could be utilised against the LeT by getting Iran involved.

Shiv, there is no documented proof of LeT being explicitly involved in sectarian killings before c. 2001. But, there was a breakup of LeT after 9/11, Khairun Naas, which had been involved in sectarian killings. There is a strong suspicion that Khairun Naas never actually split from LeT but such a facade was created to protect the image of LeT. Circumstantial evidence suggests that LeT might have been involved in anti-Shi'a activities because LeT has a training base in Kunar which is the hotbed for Shi'a genocide. Ideologically, LeT which is a member of Osama bin Laden's IIF (International Islamic Front), cannot but anything be anti-Shi'a. LeT is a wahhabi Ahl-e-Hadith organization. It is close to Saudi clergy and ruling class and ought to be therefore virulently ani-Shi'a.

As for the Ahmedis, they are uniformly hated by all Believers in Pakistan. It was Jama'at-e-Islami (JI) which in 1953 forced the GoP to declare the Ahmedis as non-Muslims and remove Ahmedis from key government posts including the Foreign Minister’s post held by Sir Zafarullah Khan. In recent years, Ahmedi leaders have uniformly accused LeT of killing them, kidnapping them for ransom etc. in Faisalabad and elsewhere.

LeJ and LeT differ because of their origins. LeJ is an offshoot of Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) which is the mother of all sectarian outfits. The stated aims are therefore different.

To answer your question, by all canons of common sense, LeT is sectarian, anti-Shia and absolutely certainly anti-Ahmedi. One is not a Muslim in Pakistan if one does not declare his/her belief in Khattam-e-Nabbuwat (Finality of Prophethood).

[shiv]

Ideologically, LeT which is a member of Osama bin Laden's IIF (International Islamic Front), cannot but anything be anti-Shi'a. LeT is a wahhabi Ahl-e-Hadith organization. It is close to Saudi clergy and ruling class and ought to be therefore virulently ani-Shi'a.

Sridhar the reason why I continue to harp on the subject is because B.Raman in the article I linked above said this in 2007

Moreover, the LET is feeling uncomfortable over the anti-Shia violence unleashed by Al Qaeda and its surrogates in Iraq. While continuing to be a member of the IIF, it is trying to avoid being associated with Al Qaeda's anti-Shia and anti-Saudi policies.

The thought cropped up in my mind as a direct result of Fair's article where she insists that LeT is toeing the Pakistaniyat line.

The interesting possibility is that LeT is the islamist faction of the Pakistani establishment that allows the Paki military to get aid from the US while denying Islamist sympathy. In a mirror image of that the LeT may be a perfectly sectarian outfit that is allowed to survive and thrive for toeing the Paki establishment line and not attack the Paki establishment. If that is the case, the Christine Fair has not figured it out yet.

[kumarn]

Is it the engame for Pakistani Taliban? - MBK

[Samudragupta]

Is it the engame for Pakistani Taliban? - MBK

The FATA politics are too complicated to be modelled on a particular equations....split and coalesense of groups in FATA is as mercurial as the people living in that region....so MKB's dream of Pak army finally getting a foothold in the region is just that a dream....BTW we have long heard abt the ceasefire betwenn the Pustun tribesmen and the TSPA army..but it flew away under the local conditions....and ISI sponsored propaganda surely does not work in the real conditions....

[sum]

^^ Why is MKB so ceaselessly batting for the TSPA in the last few articles?

[Suppiah]

The Stalinist rapist goons' agenda is to impose peace in S.Asia on Beijing's terms - i.e., preserve TSPA's capacity to wage war on India by any means of its choosing, primarily through terror, keep India in chaos and economic stagnation, strategically keep India boxed into S.Asia and force it to give up nuclear weapons in the name of "nuclear free S.Asia" , which rapist goon traitors openly advocate, by which only India will give up nooks and TSPA will keep it thru stealth and safe custody in Beijing...

It also means Unkil goes out of the region with a bloody nose, never to come back again, leaving affairs in the hands of Beijing and its chosen whores.

Hence you will see a lot of pro-TSPA songs being sung by propaganda puppets of Beijing..

[Suppiah]

The US and Afghan intelligence operatives across the border will be hard-pressed to liaise with them.

A direct accusation here that US/Afghan intelligence and by inference India too, as it is close to Afghan intelligence, 'liaise' with TTP and support them..and it is the brave TSPA that is doing intelligent, smart things...

At a time when the whole world is waking up to the double game of TSPA and its jehadi terror ideology, we have such people here singing their songs...may god save India..

[Suppiah]

Over 7000 Pakistanis may get Indian citizenship

Chandigarh: As many as 7000 Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan, who are residing in India even after the expiry of their visa, are most likely to get Indian citizenship quite soon.

This information was given by the Union Home Secretary in response to a letter sent in this regard to Rajya Sabha member Avinash Rai Khanna.

The Indian government had before December 2004 indentified 7635 such Pakistani citizens.

Bravo. A similar offer should be extended to Bengali Hindus persecuted by Khaleda Zia and her terrorist Pakistani proxies..

[SSridhar]

The interesting possibility is that LeT is the islamist faction of the Pakistani establishment that allows the Paki military to get aid from the US while denying Islamist sympathy. In a mirror image of that the LeT may be a perfectly sectarian outfit that is allowed to survive and thrive for toeing the Paki establishment line and not attack the Paki establishment. If that is the case, the Christine Fair has not figured it out yet.

Shiv, of course, there is no accusation against LeT of being involved in explicit killing of Shi'a and Ahmedis. Nobody classifies LeT as a sectarian outfit and the credit goes to the leadership of LeT for keeping it that way. In fact, no mujahideen commander subscribed to sectarian divide, at least openly lest their common objective was blunted. IMO, the first open association of a jihadi tanzeem in Pakistan openly associating with sectarian outfits was when Maulana Masood Azhar gave his support to Azam Tariq of Sipah-e-Sahab Pakistan (SSP) after he was released in the Kandahar swap. To that extent, therefore, Shri B. Raman is correct. The complete focus of LeT is on the 'mean Hindu enemy' who should be 'crushed in the way the Muslim forefathers did' as per Prof. Hafiz Saeed. He feels it is easy to achieve for Muslim jihadis because 'Hindus have no compassion in their religion'. So overcome with hatred is this guy that he probably felt unnecessary diversion into Islamic sectarianism would deprive him of his goal of destroying Hindu India. PA created other sectarian outfits to handle its requirements, vis-a-vis Iran for example or even internally.

My point is that the Islamist tendencies of the PA and its support to various jihadi terrorist organizations as well as its direct involvement in terror are too well known to the US. The idea of plausible deniability is long passe and I also do not believe that the PA itself is bothered about denying that any more. As the Tamil saying goes, why should one cover the head after being drenched completely in the rain. As Gen. Jack Keane said a few days back, and I posted it here yesterday, the Americans are completely aware of the duplicity of the PA and yet they are constrained to give billions to the Pakistanis so that the situation does not get any worse for them. That is, the Americans accept the current level of perfidy and bribe the Pakistanis not to descend to even lower levels. After some time, the Pakistanis do go a few notches down and that then becomes the new level. The Americans give even more billions of dollars because somebody argues that the descent happened because of the Pakistani paranoia etc. which the US did not address sufficiently. The cycle repeats. Anyway, I firmly believe that the PA is no longer required to conceal its Islamist jihadi affinities as it has now become a fait acoompli and well accepted as a genuine pursuit by a sovereign country, by the 3½ Friends of Democratic Pakistan.

Generally, in Islamic history, the common Islamic cause united the various factions but soon thereafter the unravelling took place because of the insurmountable inner contradictions. A Sunni Pakistan supports a Shi'ite Iran against kufr Americans and at the same time sends jihadi Jandullah terrorists into Iran to massacre them. When Salman Taseer was murdered, it was the Berelvis who led the opposition to Taseer with Deobandi and Shi'a sects subordinating. In the midst of jihad between TTP and PA, the TTP offered its support to 'fight shoulder-to-sholder' the kufr Indians if they attacked Pakistan after 26/11 and the PA termed them as brothers and patriots. This is seen as perfectly acceptable. The non-involvement of LeT in sectarian massacres within Pakistan is a tactical requirement for that organization. However, there is an accusation against the Ahl-e-Hadith LeT that in the early days of terror in Kashmir, they converted the Berelvis into their brand of takfiri salafism.

[ajit_tr]

Over 7000 Pakistanis may get Indian citizenshipChandigarh: As many as 7000 Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan, who are residing in India even after the expiry of their visa, are most likely to get Indian citizenship quite soon.

This information was given by the Union Home Secretary in response to a letter sent in this regard to Rajya Sabha member Avinash Rai Khanna.

The Indian government had before December 2004 indentified 7635 such Pakistani citizens.

Bravo. A similar offer should be extended to Bengali Hindus persecuted by Khaleda Zia and her terrorist Pakistani proxies..

I think this policy should be uniformly implemented to all the persecuted ones be it hindu,sikh,shia, jews,sunni,ahmedi,christians,tibetian buddhist etc.For centuries India has always provided safe refuge to people persecuted in their countries.These are our indic ethos and i think we must not leave them.

[shiv]

My point is that the Islamist tendencies of the PA and its support to various jihadi terrorist organizations as well as its direct involvement in terror are too well known to the US. The idea of plausible deniability is long passe and I also do not believe that the PA itself is bothered about denying that any more. As the Tamil saying goes, why should one cover the head after being drenched completely in the rain. As Gen. Jack Keane said a few days back, and I posted it here yesterday, the Americans are completely aware of the duplicity of the PA and yet they are constrained to give billions to the Pakistanis so that the situation does not get any worse for them. That is, the Americans accept the current level of perfidy and bribe the Pakistanis not to descend to even lower levels. After some time, the Pakistanis do go a few notches down and that then becomes the new level. The Americans give even more billions of dollars because somebody argues that the descent happened because of the Pakistani paranoia etc. which the US did not address sufficiently. The cycle repeats. Anyway, I firmly believe that the PA is no longer required to conceal its Islamist jihadi affinities as it has now become a fait acoompli and well accepted as a genuine pursuit by a sovereign country, by the 3½ Friends of Democratic Pakistan.

I believe this is the very place where Ms Fair's recent article has value. To my knowledge it is the first one by an American that explicitly draws a so deep a connection between the Paki army and one organization (the LeT) that she cites a "Laxman rekha" which she says the Paki army will not cross. In other word she says that the US will not be able to force Pakistan to stop supporting the LeT because te LeT is too deeply involved in local politics in Pakistan.

It is significant that someone has said this, because the US has always acted as if Pakistan will act if paid. What Fair is saying is that Pakistan will not act against the LeT even if paid. This is well known to BRF but has never been mentioned in exalted US policy circles. If Fair has the ear of anyone who matters in the US the article is a useful one.

[Vashishtha]

The 7000 hindu pakistanis NEED to go through extensive background checks though...

[Samudragupta]

I think this policy should be uniformly implemented to all the persecuted ones be it hindu,sikh,shia, jews,sunni,ahmedi,christians,tibetian buddhist etc.For centuries India has always provided safe refuge to people persecuted in their countries.These are our indic ethos and i think we must not leave them.

I think there is an interpretation problem here....India is not a Langarkhana....India accepts those who accepts India...and in BRF we are very clear what India is.....
Ur pov is a nice way to deflect the real issues...but from my POV all these "persecuted people " just allowed Indians to study what is happenning in its neighbourhood and to take coorective steps to destroy the negative forcess.....

[svinayak]

C.Unfair's article on LeT, June 14, 2011, is (at least in the abstract) actually good (haven't read the article yet). Highlighting the points
Fair or unfair?

Unfair, I would say. I haven't yet read the article. But, the above caught my eye. This is how cleverly she creates opinion. She is not saying that the above is the paranoia of Pakistan. She puts it in a way as though it is the accepted truth, not a Pakistani position. She was the one who said that she visited the Indian consulates in Afghanistan and they were helping the Balochistan separatists, a position from which she then beat a hasty retreat later. I suspect her to be used by the US State Department.. If one looks at the timeline of her statement on Balochistan, that was towards end of April 2009 just before the Sharm-el-Sheikh meeting. She was perhaps used by GoTUS to create pressure on India and also din some music into Pakistani ears.

Sridhar , keep a watch on how the US Rand corp and US agencies are in all the new setup and new organizations being built inside Pakistan. You can trace the origin and social makeup of each of these groups and their mission inside and outside Pakistan - to Rand. C Fair are the mouth piece of Rand corp to create the image and the buzz in the mainstream to make it acceptable. Watch how she wants to make sure her opinion is made as the accepted facts.
These are high caliber pro PR work being done on behalf of Pakistan and the scientist/sociologists sitting inside the Rand Corp

[ramana]

The Kauravas should have dispatched Shakuni mama back to Gandhar but didn't. Similarly we the modern Kurus never banish our bad advisers. We give them space to sow dissension.

[Suppiah]

I think this policy should be uniformly implemented to all the persecuted ones be it hindu,sikh,shia, jews,sunni,ahmedi,christians,tibetian buddhist etc.For centuries India has always provided safe refuge to people persecuted in their countries.These are our indic ethos and i think we must not leave them.

I agree, in principle. But jews are not gonna come here, they got Israel / Europe / US. The chance of Sunnis being persecuted in the immediate neighbourhood are about as low as WASP getting persecuted in Australia. As to Ahmedi and Shia, it has to be on case by case basis, not a general concept..

[Samudragupta]

The Kauravas should have dispatched Shakuni mama back to Gandhar but didn't. Similarly we the modern Kurus never banish our bad advisers. We give them space to sow dissension.

Ramanna ji probably mod can help a little bit wrt this forum....

[sum]

Hence you will see a lot of pro-TSPA songs being sung by propaganda puppets of Beijing..

Why are all useful idiots concentrated in India onlee?

Why dont we have similar guys giving 400% support to India at all times in China and Pak onlee?

[CRamS]

I believe this is the very place where Ms Fair's recent article has value. To my knowledge it is the first one by an American that explicitly draws a so deep a connection between the Paki army and one organization (the LeT) that she cites a "Laxman rekha" which she says the Paki army will not cross. In other word she says that the US will not be able to force Pakistan to stop supporting the LeT because te LeT is too deeply involved in local politics in Pakistan.

It is significant that someone has said this, because the US has always acted as if Pakistan will act if paid. What Fair is saying is that Pakistan will not act against the LeT even if paid. This is well known to BRF but has never been mentioned in exalted US policy circles. If Fair has the ear of anyone who matters in the US the article is a useful one.

Note true. Amercians like Lisa Curtis, Asley Tellis, and a host of other US foreign policy "experts" have even given testimonies to this effect. Please see all the references in this wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashkar-e-Taiba

US has always known about TSPA/ISI/LeT bonding. For a long time, US position was that LeT is a terrorist org with "regional" goals as opposed to the mighty "Al Queda" which is a "global" Isalmic terrorist org wanting to destroy the Christian west. Somewhere along the lines, especially after 26/11, there was this link established between mighty Al Queda and regional LeT, and some US officials started confronting TSPA/ISI with that link. Recall that clause in the Kerry Lugar bill that TSP must also crack down on LeT, and the amount of heartburn this clause caused in TSP.

What Fair bimbo and others are doing IMO is to restore LeT to this previous status, namely regional organization (figting Indian oppression in Kashmir, figting "Hindu extremists", the horros of Gujarat, India "stealing" TSP's water etc), and elevate TSP to its exaled status of munna taking on God's enemy, the mighty Al Queda. Such a US govt official de-linking of LeT from other terrorist groups TSP is required to take should assuage TSP RAPE's H&D to a large extent post OBL. Please read the views of Jihadi Lodhi that I posted earlier this week.

[CRamS]

[quote="sum"]Why are all useful idiots concentrated in India onlee?

Thats easy. Its the colonial bug that infests many an Indian mind.

[sum]

^^ But there were other nations also which were under colonial rule and none of them seem to have hordes of folks batting for some other nation!!

[RajeshA]

Over 7000 Pakistanis may get Indian citizenshipChandigarh: As many as 7000 Hindus and Sikhs from Pakistan, who are residing in India even after the expiry of their visa, are most likely to get Indian citizenship quite soon.

This information was given by the Union Home Secretary in response to a letter sent in this regard to Rajya Sabha member Avinash Rai Khanna.

The Indian government had before December 2004 indentified 7635 such Pakistani citizens.

Bravo. A similar offer should be extended to Bengali Hindus persecuted by Khaleda Zia and her terrorist Pakistani proxies..

I think this policy should be uniformly implemented to all the persecuted ones be it hindu,sikh,shia, jews,sunni,ahmedi,christians,tibetian buddhist etc.For centuries India has always provided safe refuge to people persecuted in their countries.These are our indic ethos and i think we must not leave them.

ajit_tr ji,

the countries in question - Pakistan and Bangladesh (East Pakistan) were created for the Muslims of the Indian Subcontinent. Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and Bangladesh has Islam as the State Religion. Per definition, India would consider that Muslims would not face any discrimination or prejudice in these countries.

Security of other minorities - Indics (Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists), Christians, Jews, Parsees, Bahais, etc. may not be guaranteed, at least in practice not, especially as the State religion is Islam. Jews would probably apply for Israel, if there are any Jews at all in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

India need not feel responsible for the Christians, as there are many other countries in the world where either State religion is Christianity or which are culturally heavily Christian, and these countries should be the ones to give asylum to Christians in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

So these minorities do theoretically have the possibility of applying for asylum in India. Indics, Parsees and Bahais can apply for residency in India. Barelvis, Shi'a, Ahmediyyas, etc. don't have that right!

And that is the policy for a secular India!

For Barelvis, Shias, Ahmediyyas, etc. it is their free choice to be Islam-adherents, and it is up to them to look for justice in their respective countries - Pakistan and Bangladesh, where protection of Muslims is assured.

In other words, we don't care what happens to them!

[Prem]

^^ But there were other nations also which were under colonial rule and none of them seem to have hordes of folks batting for some other nation!!

I think we are talking about few 3L category DLPs roaming Dilli power streets after 47.
Some Indiots suffer from 2 chronic Stockholmic syndromes compeling them to act like happy Dhimmi and brave Ganga Deeni ways. Dhimmi+Ganga Dinnii= Round Round Tortilini of Pseudo Secularini filled with garbage from Poakland, goras and land of Cheeni , constantly conspiring to impose their own lack of confidence in themselves over Aryabhoomi. Any thinging shattering their image of happy Dhimi, Ganga Deeni India is perceived as mortal threat to their way of surviving/living their curent life form.

[Prem]

Rajesh Ji,
Any one adding to the secular nature of India must be welcomed. Those who live by the Non Secular religion must remain outside and live their life like Lahori Lolansteins of Laandooland . Shias, Ahmadis, Soo-fiss etc must look at the land of Saudis for asylem and aspirations.

[SBajwa]

Muslims (all including shia, sunni, ismaili, bohara, ahmadi, etc) should not get an Indian citizenship., or they can get an Indian citizenship after they change their religion.

[RamaY]

The Kauravas should have dispatched Shakuni mama back to Gandhar but didn't. Similarly we the modern Kurus never banish our bad advisers. We give them space to sow dissension.

This is a $m advise every Indian can take. Kick out Sakunis Amongst ourselves (there are very few - may be in hundreds in a billion). Then there would be no fight among brothers.

[Theo_Fidel]

The thing about the Fair woman is her conclusions are correct, more or less but the logic she uses to get there is mostly incorrect. As has been pointed out, it seems like she is testing the waters for a conclusion that has already been reached internally. Of course this conclusion is very similar to the one here on BRF but without the cultural understanding that goes with it. Essentially she is calling for de-escalation and letting the LET get on with its agenda as this does not involve US directly.

Be very certain that she is angling for the 'South Asian Affairs' desk eventually. This is how the poisonous Robin Raphel bird showed up in that desk.

[RSoami]

I think this policy should be uniformly implemented to all the persecuted ones be it hindu,sikh,shia, jews,sunni,ahmedi,christians,tibetian buddhist etc.For centuries India has always provided safe refuge to people persecuted in their countries.These are our indic ethos and i think we must not leave them.

If tomorrow Haqqani is persecuted in tattistan for bein a Pashtun we should grant him asylum...
Brilliant

[Mahendra]

I think this policy should be uniformly implemented to all the persecuted ones be it hindu,sikh,shia, jews,sunni,ahmedi,christians,tibetian buddhist etc.For centuries India has always provided safe refuge to people persecuted in their countries.These are our indic ethos and i think we must not leave them.

If tomorrow Haqqani is persecuted in tattistan for bein a Pashtun we should grant him asylum...
Brilliant

WHY has BR given asylum to propagandoo spreading lahore wale bhai _tr

[Cosmo_R]

The thing about the Fair woman is her conclusions are correct, more or less but the logic she uses to get there is mostly incorrect. As has been pointed out, it seems like she is testing the waters for a conclusion that has already been reached internally. Of course this conclusion is very similar to the one here on BRF but without the cultural understanding that goes with it. Essentially she is calling for de-escalation and letting the LET get on with its agenda as this does not involve US directly.

Be very certain that she is angling for the 'South Asian Affairs' desk eventually. This is how the poisonous Robin Raphel bird showed up in that desk.

Right now, she's angling for tenure. Later, she will want a sabbatical at the DoS --"Pakistan Problem" desk. After a few years she will try to translate that into a consultancy or maybe even 'star correspondent' (Google 'Ashley Banfield') .

That's the process. Clever quips, ripostes on TV make for a repeat guest. Add to that Facebook/Twitter 'savvy' and you've got Cohen 2.0. That is her business model.

There is no such thing as 'bad publicity'. Careful we don't ignite her startup on BRF. Controversy and attention is what she craves.