Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2011

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Airavat
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Airavat » 05 Aug 2011 07:35

Minor slowdown in the 2009 civilian aid package makes the beggar nation threat and whine

U.S. officials say they expect lawmakers to shrink the aid package while requiring greater evidence that Pakistan is fighting terrorism and that the funding is reaping benefits. “You’re not going to get hearts and minds if aid’s given in dribs and drabs,” said Maleeha Lodhi, a former Pakistani ambassador to the United States. Additional cuts, even those resulting from belt-tightening in Congress, she said, “will be seen as punitive.”

After Congress passed the aid package in 2009, the powerful Pakistani military lashed out at some of the terms, including a requirement that the U.S. secretary of state certify that the civilian Pakistani government exercises control over the armed forces. In Washington, lawmakers frequently complain that Pakistanis seem ungrateful for U.S. assistance. “It’s time for us to take a look at the money we’re giving away to Pakistan,” said Rep. Ted Poe (R-Tex.) during a House hearing last week. “The billions of dollars that we give them, what do we have to show for it?” Security threats mean American officials often cannot visit project sites and spending has been poorly explained to the public.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby A_Gupta » 05 Aug 2011 07:37

Shiv,

The electorate for the Central Legislature was extremely limited. The 586,647 number is probably correct.

The provincial legislatures had a larger electorate (though still far from universal adult franchise).
You can see the votes cast in the 1946 provincial elections here.

http://observingliberalpakistan.blogspo ... -1946.html

The Congress polled 19,069,510 votes, Muslim League 4,501,156, Non-League Muslims 1,586,392,
Scheduled Caste Federation 532,072 and communists 666,732 - and this is the contested seats only.
The Congress was unopposed in 303 seats and the Muslim League in 40, out of a total of roughly 1585 seats.

-Arun

PS: So roughly 26 million votes were counted in the provincial elections of 1946. Undivided India was approximately 387 million. That is 6.7%.

PPS: Sho Kuwajima, "Muslims, Nationalism and the Partition: 1946 Provincial Elections in India" (1998) tells us

"The total electorate in the 1946 Provincial Elections in India were 41,075,839.....The number of women voters was 6,620,589 only 16 per cent of the electorate."
Last edited by A_Gupta on 05 Aug 2011 08:09, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Hari Seldon » 05 Aug 2011 07:40

Humiliating comedown apart, I'm concerned India will unwittingly help prop up Pak by trading with them. Aak-thoo. Demand transit rights to Afgn & CAR as part & parcel of the open trade deal, I say!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 05 Aug 2011 07:41

^ +1.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby krisna » 05 Aug 2011 07:41

Q&A: Karachi violence bbc
Pakistan's commercial capital Karachi has seen a recent surge in violence, much of it involving armed gangs linked to rival ethnic and political groups. At least 300 people were killed in the city in July - 200 of them thought to be victims of targeted killings and clashes, according to local media.

The independent Human Rights Commission of Pakistan (HRCP) said 490 people had been killed in targeted killings in Karachi during the first half of 2011, compared with 748 in 2010.(who says bakis are not scoring - now it is in small numbers but contiuously)
BBC correspondents say the violence is becoming increasingly indiscriminate. As well as political activists being targeted - shopkeepers, cafe owners, truck drivers and even pedestrians have all been gunned down.

The violence is essentially a turf war between rival political groups and heavily armed gangs linked to them.

The local political parties are believed to have a complex, mutually dependent relationship with assorted criminal syndicates variously engaged in extortion, illegal arms trading, drug trafficking and land grabbing.

What's the cost in economic terms?
Karachi - which has Pakistan's only operational commercial port - has frequently been brought to a standstill by the violence, resulting in heavy losses to business and industry.
Local traders and business associations say strikes and violence in 2010 led to the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars, placing further pressure on Pakistan's already beleaguered economy.
Karachi provides about half (other estimates say nearly three-quarters) of the total annual tax revenue :(( :(( collected by the government.


karachites subsidising pakiRAPES.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby abhishek_sharma » 05 Aug 2011 07:47

From the Urdu Press

Red carpet for HRK

In its July 29 editorial, Rashtriya Sahara writes: “Though no solid results came out of the talks between Pakistan’s new foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, who has received a tremendous welcome from the people in this country, and India’s minister for external affairs, S.M. Krishna... one positive aspect has certainly emerged — the political leaderships of both India and Pakistan have clearly realised that these two nuclear powers are not going to gain anything through confrontation and angry exchanges of statements.”

Munsif writes in its editorial on July 29: “Ms Rabbani is described as the soft face of our neighbour’s foreign policy — this has been proved right to a great extent.” The daily Inquilab, published from Mumbai, Delhi, Lucknow, Kanpur and Bareilly, has not taken very kindly to Rabbani. In its editorial on July 23, it writes: “Crores of people who believe in better relations between the two countries were unable to understand the initial diplomatic statements of the young Pakistani foreign minister, Hina Rabbani when, soon after her arrival in India, she tried to give some other message by meeting the separatist leaders of Kashmir.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2011 07:49

I am no economist - but general knowledge tells me that a market that is closed to competition will be of great benefit to some people in that market. If I am a Paki feudal with 6000 acres of sugarcane or some such crop, I can control prices by hoarding or other means. This makes me very wealthy, but the people who suffer from shortages and high prices will not be Indians, Congolese or tarrest Chinese. It is the Pakis themselves.

If you introduce a system in Pakistan where a shortage can be quickly corrected by cheap imports from india (assuming that India has a crop that is exportable) - the mango Pakis gain, but the feudal landowner suffers. It is not in his interest to see this happen. One way of countering this is that the feudal, as a member of the Pakistan ( :rotfl: ) "parliament" can declare India the enemy and stop trade with India until Cashmere is handed over. In fact the man will be in danger if Cashmere is handed over. But its a good excuse to screw Pakistan.

Indian and Pakistan crop patterns are very similar, as is the climate and diet. There is no nearby country that produces stuff like Jowar, Bajra, sugarcane, special rice varieties and other subcontinental crops. It makes sense for each side to supply to the other. If I am not mistaken, governments in India have a special "minimum support price" for crops so that if there is a bumper harvest - prices will not fall so low that there is a need to cheat in some way. In Pakistan - with a weak government structure such schemes cannot be implemented - leaving all the wealth in the hands of powerful large scale farmers and landowners. Any "MFN" agreement with Pakistan wil get shot down by the big feudal farmers who will see a threat to their way of life from the MFN. They will use the "cashmere" excuse to shoot it down.

But even if MFN works in pockets - it will spread like a viral illness. IMO

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby shiv » 05 Aug 2011 07:51

Hari Seldon wrote:Humiliating comedown apart, I'm concerned India will unwittingly help prop up Pak by trading with them. Aak-thoo. Demand transit rights to Afgn & CAR as part & parcel of the open trade deal, I say!


Actually free trade screws the feudal land owners and hoarders of Pakistan, and that would include jernails, serving and retired. That is why they are against it - not because of Cashmere - which is only a cover. Bumper crops in India can be exported at low prices rather than dumping/burning of crops by desperate farmers in India.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby SSridhar » 05 Aug 2011 07:56

Prem wrote:http://www.slate.com/id/2300825/
Kashmir's Raging Rivers
Can India and Pakistan overcome decades of mistrust to save the Indus Waters Treaty

It is not saving IWT that Pakistan is worried about. Why should a Treaty be saved ? It is about saving Pakistan. Pakistan could have survived as an independent country only by having a normal, non-conflictual (even if not a friendly) relationship with India. The geographical, historical and cultural factors were such that without a normal state-to-state relationship with India, Pakistan could not survive, leave alone thrive. It wanted to challenge this theory and so it invented and fabricated history, did widespread social engineering, entered into alliances at its own cost, and punched way above its weight that it forgot simple and pragmatic things. Due to various reasons, it was able to survive for so long, though barely. It still believes that even though it is emaciated to the bone marrow, it can still fight its way through the impending collapse by being clever-by-half. Re-negotiating IWT is one such approach. But, things beyond its control such as the demise of Cold War, changing patterns of world trade, terrorism, global economic meltdown, global warming, the US economic issues, India's rise etc. are demanding a radically changed approach. Pakistan is unable to adapt to these new demands because the military and the Islamists are setting the agenda and their goals do not coincide with the goals of a normal, modern nation-state. If Pakistan has to survive, it has got to change course drastically but that would also unravel the country because Islamism, conquering India, Strategic Depth, nuclear weapons etc. would then have to be thrown out.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby krisna » 05 Aug 2011 08:00

Code: Select all

http://tribune.com.pk/story/224816/security-concerns-navy-battleships-moved-away-from-karachi/

Security concerns: Navy battleships moved away from Karachi

The navy sent its warships away from its main base in Karachi as a “precautionary measure” after a 16-hour siege of its main naval airbase, PNS Mehran. The commando-style gun and rocket-propelled grenade attacks resulted in the destruction of two P3C Orion airplanes – which were key naval assets.

Retired Vice Admiral Javed Iqbal underlined another important benefit of the move: “Unlike many navy bases in Karachi, such as Mehran, that are in the centre of residential areas, Ormara is a far off base,” he said, adding that any terrorist there would be spotted from miles away. :lol:
He said the movement of ships to Ormara would give “strategic depth” and better defence positions to the navy. He also rejected the notion that the fear factor may have played a major role in the decision. “I’ve been a commando myself and I can tell you this is a brilliant tactical move,” he said.
:rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Prem » 05 Aug 2011 08:18

IMHO< Poaqs want to rewrite the IWT before Chinese build up of dams in Tibet . Chinese move in POK and Tibet to exploit water resources seems well planned and co-oridnated. Poaqs as usual are playing with their Tactical brilliance to lock Indian options while PRC does its dirty trick in Tibet.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby GeorgeM » 05 Aug 2011 08:21

krisna wrote:Pakistan was created to establish an easy access to the middle east for control of oil and create a buffer against soviet expansionism (along with Afghanistan).

There may be more to it. Britain had long believed like the Brzezinski's that who ever controls central asia controls the world. There is much written on the conflicts/tensions Britain had with Czar's army in the Afghan/ Central Asian region prior to Independence. Sorry I only have fading memories of such reading years ago but a quick search came up with this page. Creation of Pakistan was toward a British control of Central Asia. It also effectively blocked Soviet quest into Indian Ocean. But knowingly or not, Britain also succeeded in cutting off India from Central Asia.
If I wont be crucified in BRF, I would suggest following the weekly publications by Lyndon LaRouche. This gentleman, whatever his orientation be (Strongly Anti-British and Anti Obama), is probably among the most knowledged on current global politics. I believe he may be right when he quotes that Pakistan for long has been a British run operation. May be well into the 90's. Americans too had a share in the pie. Please read this article where the executive director of United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) is on record stating the importance of Afghan drug empire for the survival of Wall Street and London Financial houses. As you may know the the Afghan poppy cultivation/harvesting grew several folds once Taliban was ousted and British/Khan armies took over. So long as Khan has to depend on Pak for sustaining Wall Street, don't expect any about turns from Khan side. You can see Pak Army as a very professional whore selling her services to Brits, Khan or China or Saudi. If the offer is sweet enough, they may even service us SDREs as well.
But now the Islamic (Arabized Islamic) fundamentalists are beginning to call the shots, Khan is between the devil (Taliban) and the deep sea (Arabized Pak fundus). While Khan wants to take on Taliban, it needs the Pak army to take on domestic jihadists. This is really a multi cornered game with all kinds of players using Pak.

Iran is the big enemy now. It can be a spoilsport but not become a dominant power visavis GCC/Uncle.
surprising how things changed in persia/iran in 30-40 years from being US poodle to enemy primarily due to islamisation.

Don't tell that to an Iranian. They consider the Khomeini revolution as the 2nd arab invasion. They seem rather more proud of their Persian legacy than the past attempts by fundamentalists. To understand Iran, as you may know, you need to understand their government system. They have 2 parallel systems, one run by the ayatollahs/clerics and the other by elected ones. Both have overlapping powers and are at loggerheads with each other. If there is another revolution, the youth could remove the ayatollahs and install a more legitimate democratic governance.

Will things change for the worse or better- will pakistan with its internal churning going on become an enemy of uncle like iran in the last 30 years.

Probably it will die a whores death, even before it can become an enemy, from the same disease it spread, Arabized Wahhabi islam, secession, civil war, famine etc to name just a few. The cost of sustaining the Paki Army has to be more than the benefits incurred before Pak turns out to be an enemy. Mallus on board might well remember the great poet Kumaranaasan's lines "samayamaayilla samayamaayilla polum.."

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby sanjeevpunj » 05 Aug 2011 08:41

Me not a mallu, but can you translate that for others please? I am guessing it is "Time is nearing,time is nearing,time to go......" ?

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Prem » 05 Aug 2011 08:44

All The Poaks are rich , Beet-full and Batter than Indian !!
http://pn.com.pk/details_en.php?nid=20019
Mangoes raise hopes for sweetening ties with US
This is the result of two years of strategic dialogue with the Americans,” said Ambassador Husain Haqqani who hoped the Pakistanis would succeed where the Indians failed.India also started exporting mangoes to the United States three years ago but prohibitive costs made it difficult for ordinary Americans to buy the fruit at $3 a piece. A little logistic difficulty also marred the showcase event. Because of Ramazan, the inaugural ceremony had to be held hours after the mangoes arrived and so the mangoes were not ripe as bottom yet.
“Yes, they really are not as tasty as you get in Pakistan,” said Javed Rana, another prominent Chicagoan of Pakistani origin. “But a chausa is a chausa.” Clad in designer shalwar-kameezes, Pakistani begums were not behind their men when the hosts said that the guests could take the mangoes with them. Within minutes, more than 3,000 mangoes exhibited at the hotel’s Grand Ballroom disappeared into handbags and pockets.
It is de-shaping your $500 handbag,” this correspondent said to a lady after she put in the 10th mango. “Yes, but these are Pakistani mangoes,” she replied.
Perhaps that’s why a famous Chicago physician ignored the stains they were leaving on his expensive suit as he stuffed them in his pockets.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby sum » 05 Aug 2011 08:52

“I’ve been a commando myself and I can tell you this is a brilliant tactical move,” he said.

Pakis really are readymade BENIS material.... :lol:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): June 30, 2

Postby Suppiah » 05 Aug 2011 08:57

krisna wrote:
Retired Vice Admiral Javed Iqbal underlined another important benefit of the move: “Unlike many navy bases in Karachi, such as Mehran, that are in the centre of residential areas, Ormara is a far off base,” he said, adding that any terrorist there would be spotted from miles away. :lol:
He said the movement of ships to Ormara would give “strategic depth” and better defence positions to the navy. He also rejected the notion that the fear factor may have played a major role in the decision. “I’ve been a commando myself and I can tell you this is a brilliant tactical move,” he said.
:rotfl:


Not when 90% of those inside the base are terrorists themselves, you Pak-roach!

Strategic depth..ha ha..look like any jehadi terrorist pig can use that word without knowing what depth or strategy means..

Thread reaching its 72 quite fast...IB4TL>?>?


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