Indian Army: News & Discussion

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 18 Dec 2011 16:43

^^^Thanks.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 18 Dec 2011 17:00

Thanks.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 19 Dec 2011 13:10

The government has initiated the process of appointing a new Army Chief even as the issue of Army Chief General V K Singh’s correct date of birth is yet to be resolved after he filed a statutory complaint with the Defence Ministry.

The dossiers of four senior most officers who will be in service when Singh’s tenure ends in May next year are being processed. While Lt Gen Bikram Singh, who is heading the Eastern Command and is the senior most, is set to be appointed as the next chief, the names of all four are being processed as per the procedure.

Govt starts process of picking new Army chief

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Dec 2011 22:01

Indian Army officer under scanner after honey-trapped by Pakistan

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 20 Dec 2011 22:07

AGHR!!! This is so STUPID!

The officer voluntarily reported the matter to the high commision of India! They could have used him as a double agent... INSTEAD, they end up screwing him over!! What is WRONG with people?

Net takeaway? If youre being blackmailed by ISI, its better to cooperate with them rather than be true to your salt and report back to HQ!

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 20 Dec 2011 22:19

ASPuar wrote:Net takeaway? If youre being blackmailed by ISI, its better to cooperate with them rather than be true to your salt and report back to HQ!

Assuming " them " as ISI, are you serious sir !? are you saying betray motherland and cooperate with ISI if your life is in danger ?

If yes than what about of thousands of soldiers on the border and at Siachen ? We read story in the sulekh link posted by rohitvats, what about soldiers like those? Should they also leave the post ?

-Ankit

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 20 Dec 2011 22:38

Boss, what I am saying is, what will happen if and when another officer falls into such a trap?

Here, this guy was decent, and went straight to the high commission. He is punished for his honesty. What will another, less scrupulous man do in his situation, especially given that being honest and reporting the matter obviously only gets you punished? That is my fear.

chandanus · Post by **chandanus** » 20 Dec 2011 22:50

The officer had Guts ..and he put the interests of the nation before himself and Frankly speaking..I would have done the same .. !!!!! I hope he had contacted some under cover RAW person rather than some dumb babu !!!

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Dec 2011 22:51

ASPuar wrote:AGHR!!! This is so STUPID!

The officer voluntarily reported the matter to the high commision of India! They could have used him as a double agent... INSTEAD, they end up screwing him over!! What is WRONG with people?

Net takeaway? If youre being blackmailed by ISI, its better to cooperate with them rather than be true to your salt and report back to HQ!

What is published in the media about intelligence is never the full truth. Who knows...maybe he was being used as a double agent for some time.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 20 Dec 2011 23:08

^Sir, you are saying ,If some one black mail you, than you will surrender to his/her demand. If col. went to HQ he did right thing than surrender to ISI. Punishment will be different for lapse in duty than treason. I am sure wise men are hailing trial court and they will understand col. act to report to HQ, if no evidence will be found against col. for treason.

Sir, argument will lead us no where.Please consider this my last reply. I welcome your thoughts on it.

-Ankit

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 20 Dec 2011 23:31

If the Colonel did what is written in TOI report, then he did the right thing in that situation. Though I really wanted him to act more smartly and act as a double agent

and reveal the ISI network in India.

Nevertheless he did what was RIGHT according to protocol.

Mayuresh · Post by **Mayuresh** » 21 Dec 2011 00:05

The good Colonel should have said - Thanks for all the sex, go ahead and publish my pictures

On a serious note, I don't understand why he should be punished. He did the right thing by reporting to higher authorities that the ISI approached him. If he has been used by the RAW as a double agent, he deserves a promotion!

"Sleeping with a woman" is not treason

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Dec 2011 00:18

>> "Sleeping with a woman" is not treason

unfortunately it's so with our official mindset stick stuck in the victorian era.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 21 Dec 2011 00:52

^ Hmm interesting. I think services look down upon officers/soldiers cheating on their spouses. Now if he was single that should be a different matter altogether IMHO.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 21 Dec 2011 04:18

@sukhish What a inference of the report by you.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Dec 2011 04:19

Ankit boss ... do you understand the meaning of a double agent ?!! Being a double agent in ISI providing wrong info and extracting info for India would be a great service to the nation.

Being a double agent is the most thankless job though ... You take the highest risks and yet when you die the same nation that you worked for will not even acknowledge you!

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 21 Dec 2011 04:48

indranilroy wrote:Ankit boss ... do you understand the meaning of a double agent ?!! Being a double agent in ISI providing wrong info and extracting info for India would be a great service to the nation.

Being a double agent is the most thankless job though ... You take the highest risks and yet when you die the same nation that you worked for will not even acknowledge you!

I completely agree with you except the bold part. Why do you think or say that the nation will not even acknowledge for the exceptional service to the country.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Dec 2011 04:53

Have you ever heard about a double agent of India?! Are you sure there are none?! Well even their own family don't know what they are doing.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 21 Dec 2011 05:06

Hmm.. I know none..but if there are any then I can Salute and thank them for there exceptional service to the Nation.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Dec 2011 06:28

That is all that we can do ... thank whosoever he/she was/is ... Will never be able to recognize them.

But we digress here.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Dec 2011 07:17

He is definitely a good guy!!

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 21 Dec 2011 19:56

Rs 11,600 cr spent on modernisation of Army in 2010-11.

An expenditure of Rs 11,600 crore was incurred in the last fiscal as part of a structured plan for capacity building and modernisation of Indian Army, the government today informed the Rajya Sabha.

"Army is implementing a focused plan to build up capability by force accretions and modernisation. The process is based on 15-year Long Term Perspective Plan (LTPP), five year Services Capital Acquisition Plan (SCAP) and Annual Acquisition Plan (AAP)," Defence Minister A K Antony said in a written reply.

He said the procurement of required equipment and ammunitions for the Army is carried out as per AAP in accordance with the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) and Defence Procurement Manual.

On allocation of funds to purchase these equipment, Antony said, "Adequate funds are made available by government to meet the requirements of Indian Army for procurement of defence equipment and ammunitions."

According to the report tabled in the Upper House, Rs 11,600 crore was spent on modernisation of the Army in 2010-11 as compared to Rs 7,774 crore in the previous fiscal.

Replying to a question on installing night-vision devices on tanks, he said, "A good number of tanks are equipped with night-vision devices. Presently, four proposals, for fitting night-vision devices on tanks are at various stages of implementation and procurement."

Two proposals are scheduled for completion by 2012-2013, Antony said.

Providing details of the fighter planes and ships purchased in last two years, he said, "During last two years, 50 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft were procured and contracts for procurement of 40 Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer, 20 Light Combat Aircraft, 29 MiG-29K aircraft and 11 helicopter carrying ships were signed."

skher · Post by **skher** » 22 Dec 2011 00:59

Men of Valour - By Capt.(retd.) Amarinder Singh

The Indian jawan has performed consistently throughout history regardless of the adverse conditions he has been ordered to fight in, be it the freezing winter of Europe during the First World War, in China during the Boxer Rebellion, or the post-independence wars. What he looks for is leadership. His motivation is always his honour as a soldier and his paltan ki izzat. It takes one back to the old saying, "There are no bad soldiers, only bad leaders." Those of us who have had the privilege to lead the Indian soldier will, I am sure, unanimously acknowledge this fact and agree that it has been a privilege and honour to have led such men in war or peace. One cannot find a better body of men anywhere in this world than the soldiers who comprise the Indian Army. They are loyal to the core, follow you wherever you intend taking them, no matter how difficult the task. If you lead, they will follow.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Dec 2011 07:48

indranilroy wrote: Being a double agent in ISI providing wrong info and extracting info for India would be a great service to the nation.

Being a double agent is the most thankless job though ... You take the highest risks and yet when you die the same nation that you worked for will not even acknowledge you!

And a bearded Paki Muslim citizen of Pakistan working as double agent for India would be double reason for Indians not acknowledging him. Perfect cover. Never to be admitted. Never to be revealed.

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 23 Dec 2011 11:30

Tarmak007 has a report on the Namica.

As per the report, there is going to be a face-off between DRDL designed Namica and L&T designed Namica in the summer of 2012. The final vehicle maybe one of the two or an amalgamation of the two designs. Well amalgamation of the two would surely mean further delay, because a new carrier vehicle would have to designed containing "best of the features from both designs".

Moreover the report says the army has reduced the specs of the Namica carrier. "Earlier the Army wanted eight missiles on the launcher and four in the stowage. Now, this has been reduced to six ready-to-fire missiles on the launcher only".

Hmm, wonder if the big launcher for eight missiles was causing a lot of issues. If not why not retain 8 ready to fire missiles. Maybe weight consideration. I anyways never understood to the requirement for the 4 re-loads of earlier design. The launcher has 8 missiles and reload carries only half that number, hence a reload only provides half fighting capability.

One, question with regards to the Nag. Since Nag derivative Helina has a range of 7 km, cannot the same be put on the Namica carriers. Some would say that the carriers cannot see whats 7 km away. Yes they are right, but in todays world of miniature UAV's, a troop of Namica can carry two small UAV's like the SlyBird and hunt. This way they can stay behind the actual battle lines is need be and still provide hits.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Dec 2011 12:13

From the same article linked by bmallick: The projected number in perspective plan for Nag is 7,000 missiles and 200 NAMICAs. That is a pretty healthy number for a niche ATGM like Nag. So, I guess, that takes care of requirement part from IA.

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 23 Dec 2011 12:37

With 200 Namica's & 114 LCH, the army sure is would have a formidable anti armor capabilities. Further integration of LCH & Namica's in composite troops of say 2 LCH & 4 Namica's, would sure rain hell for any armor thrust into the country. That's about 4*6+ 8*2 = 40 tanks/IFVs/APCs gone. With LCH providing long range target detection & identification, passing info to Namica's hidden by terrain. LCH itself launching missiles from a different direction, would mean that the enemy is not sure from where did the actual attack take place.

bmallick · Post by **bmallick** » 23 Dec 2011 12:46

If the new version of Namica is to carry 6 missiles with no re-load, then wouldn't it be better to go a for a lighter vehicle than the BMP based design. I mean 6 Nag, each weighing in 42kg, means a total missile weight of 250 odd kg. If we forgo a 360 swiveling launcher and go for maybe 60 degrees on either side of front, wouldn't that be provided by a launcher + missile weight of 400-500 kg, system. Such a system would require a much lighter vehicle to carry the launcher around. Maybe a large 4x4 or 6x6 vehicle can carry the system. We can have much more of them in numbers and really swarm an area. If required we can actually reduce the number of missiles to 4 maybe. but with much larger numbers of vehicles it would make up the drop in numbers.

I guess it all depends on what role the army envisages for Namica system. If it needs to stay with the armor formations & fight, then it needs extra armor protection, hence a heavier vehicle like BMP being its base makes sense. But if its to be a recce & support system, them maybe a much lighter and mobile vehicle.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2011 15:05

- Helina/Nag if mounted in Namica should be thought of in future as VLS mode where the troop compartment area of BMP is stuffed with 10-12 tubes - huge salvo fire should be unleashed - two ATGMs smacking a tank is better than one.

- a lighter 4x4 vehicle for infantry formations can be used to carry 4 x Nag in a wooden round type pkg, with a integral small telescoping MLRS type system to drop the expended tubes and pickup a fresh 4-pack....instead of having to wait for enemy vehicles to close to 2km to use Javelin or Milan2T or Konkurs, we can double the engagement range by using Nag...more time to target the enemy.

which brings me to a pet rant - where exactly are we on a heavy 4x4 vehicle for IA - axe, huffy, tuffy, tigr , the ancient jonga have all been seen but none ordered. the Gypsy is fairly pathetic in terms of people and goods you can hang off yet we continue to use it.

when are we going to get a decent vehicle like range rover (tatas!) if not a TFTA uber-sleek cat like the Fennec?

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 23 Dec 2011 15:58

bmallick wrote:Tarmak007 has a report on the Namica.

Good to see progress on some fronts at least. 200 units is to high a number for the R&S Battalions IMO. These could probably see service with the Mechanized Infantry's AT Platoon.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2011 16:16

I found this republic day pic of a danish hydrema mine clearing vehicle
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... ydrema.jpg

its a mine flail that goes back over a minefield most likely and that huge plate protects the crew in cabin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hydre ... ehicle.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBC77Yh2Tkw

does anyone know when we purchased them and how many?

I would like to see Arjun chassis used for this abrams bad boy assault breaching vehicle too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c839FBFK ... =endscreen

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 23 Dec 2011 16:32

Singha wrote:I found this republic day pic of a danish hydrema mine clearing vehicle
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... ydrema.jpg

its a mine flail that goes back over a minefield most likely and that huge plate protects the crew in cabin

Hydrema is a specialized Truck manufacturing company and a part of BAE Systems.

Link: http://www.hydrema.co.uk/products/milit ... ma-910mcv2

As per Wiki India bought 12 units.

Another very interesting application Vehicle!!

Link: http://www.hydrema.co.uk/products/milit ... ema-900fdv

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 23 Dec 2011 16:42

One of their mine clearing truck

The MCV has been described as a »medieval mechanism” and a “mine munching monster”, and this 10 metres long, 18 tonnes heavy machine does have a somewhat intimidating effect on the viewer when the flail and its 72 chains start rotating and the hammers at the ends of the chains dig into the ground, often accompanied by a large cloud of dust.

The effect on the mines is also very convincing – the mines are either detonated or torn apart.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Dec 2011 16:54

rohitvats wrote:From the same article linked by bmallick: The projected number in perspective plan for Nag is 7,000 missiles and 200 NAMICAs. That is a pretty healthy number for a niche ATGM like Nag. So, I guess, that takes care of requirement part from IA.

yep it's very reassuring to hear those numbers after all those years. any idea how IA will spread them around ? armd and mech brigades R&S sqn ? how many sqns would we need, do the numbers tally ?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 23 Dec 2011 16:55

Does it do mine clearing while being reverse gear-> Cause i don't think it go over the mines and then start its anti-mining operations. Wont it be vulnerable to enemy soldiers on the other side of the mine field??

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 23 Dec 2011 16:57

wonder why they have such a strange setup....there must be some explanation

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 23 Dec 2011 17:37

Interesting set-up that MCV - there are two engines - (a) the one immediately behind the armored driver's cabin to move the vehicle forward (b) another one behind the shield and flail. IMO, during mining operations, the vehicle moves in reverse direction under the power of rear engine with flail in front.

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 23 Dec 2011 17:54

One engine (cab side) powers the vehicle, second engine powers the hydraulic pump used for rotating the mike clearing setup via hydraulic motors.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 23 Dec 2011 17:58

Indian Army's Pir Panjal Brigade felicitates Hajj Pilgrims

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Dec 2011 17:59

Aditya_V wrote:Does it do mine clearing while being reverse gear-> Cause i don't think it go over the mines and then start its anti-mining operations. Wont it be vulnerable to enemy soldiers on the other side of the mine field??

I don't think mine clearing is a job to be done under fire. The enemy must be cleared first and then a path made through the minefield.