Indian Army: News & Discussion

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Surya
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 17 Jan 2012 18:22

cross posting from the media thread

the latest from our new hit man

rohitvats wrote:Excerpts from the latest article on VKS in India Today by Unnithan.
Taken from a link on Livefist Blog:(http://livefist.blogspot.com/2012/01/screw-this-ill-see-you-in-court-army.html)

Over the past year, General Singh's energies have been consumed
by the raging birth date controversy. There are concerns that he
may have neglected his job. A December 2011 cag report rapped
the Government and the Army for not acquiring modern artillery
guns for over two decades and forcing troops to rely on "obsolete
1970s vintage guns".
The campaign to restore his birth date flies in the face of the
Chetwode credo, instilled in every IMA cadet, of 'service before
self'; this is why General Singh has used another powerful Army credo, personal honour, to mask it. He
has used, say his detractors, selective media leaks, waged a sly parochial campaign and tacitly moved to
enlist political support. None of these allegations can be traced directly to the Army chief. MOD officials,
however, say the circumstantial evidence for a motivated campaign is overwhelming.


And we have had people on BRF talking about "objectivity" on part of Unnithan!!!! ack thoo...



Two decades can now be blamed on this chief in the same line :)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 17 Jan 2012 18:25


chaanakya
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 17 Jan 2012 18:39

SagarAg wrote:Can anyone clear me if VK Singh ji was chosen as COAS based on his birth date as 1950. :-?


It would not have mattered but for "line of succession".

http://indianarmy.nic.in/Site/FormTempl ... 9pkW/+Mw==

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 17 Jan 2012 19:37

http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/inside- ... -the-belt/

Hitting the General below the belt


Before Army chief General Vijay Kumar Singh’s doughty daughter landed up at the Supreme Court registry to file a writ petition on behalf of her father on Monday evening, the officer wrote to Defence Minister A K Antony that he was taking legal recourse in the age issue.

General Singh informed Antony that he had been forced to go to the court to prevent a possible adverse legal fallout of another petition filed before by the Rohtak chapter of the so-called Grenadiers Association and with which he had no truck in any way. It is another matter that a court insider leaked the news of General Singh going to court to TV news channels much before his letter reached Antony on Monday.

General Singh was advised by his lawyers that his legal options on the date of birth issue would be closed if the Supreme Court took up the Grenadiers Association’s petition as it was rather insidious and factually inaccurate in many places. For instance, the association’s petition stated that Lt. General Bikramjeet Singh, presently Eastern Army Commander and in line for the Army Chief’s job, was related to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

Given such inaccuracies, the Supreme Court in all probability would have taken a rather poor view of the submission and would have foreclosed all options for General Singh. Now that General Singh has sought legal remedy to determine whether he was born in 1950 or 1951, it would be interesting to shed light on the behind the scenes and unsuccessful dialogue between him and the government over what the he terms as an honour and integrity issue. General Singh in his petition has sought interim relief from the court over the rejection of his statutory complaint on the age issue by the Defence Minister on December 30, 2011. After General Singh filed his statutory complaint before Antony on August 25, 2011, he met UPA wise man and Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee and told him what he had done. Mukherjee looked at General Singh and said that he took this statutory complaint as an opportunity and not a challenge for the government. General Singh told Mukherjee that the complaint was only aimed at rectifying his age and not programmed to increase his tenure as Army Chief — a matter which is the prerogative of the government. For the next four months, a key government interlocutor and a close friend of Singh played the messenger in the hope that an amicable compromise could be reached. The interlocutor failed. Not because his or General Singh’s intentions were not honourable but because the UPA has now acquired the habit of speaking in multiple voices.

The final straw for the Chief was a series of slanderous media articles this month which led him to believe that they were being orchestrated by the Defence Ministry. Before General Singh went on an official visit to Myanmar on January 5 he met National Security Advisor Shiv Shanker Menon. Sharp as he is, Menon suggested that the government would come out with a statement making it amply clear that age was not the issue and that it wanted General Singh for other services preferably in the civilian set-up. As the idea was fair, General Singh agreed to it with a single caveat. He said as long as the government agreed that his date of birth was 1951 he was even willing to resign and pave way for whomsoever the UPA wanted to appoint as Army Chief. General Singh returned from Myanmar on January 9 and met Mukherjee, who assured him that he was on the job and solution soon would be found to the age issue.

In the meantime, senior UPA ministers including Antony, P Chidambaram and Salman Khurshid prepared for stage two by calling General Singh a very competent soldier. A solution was in sight and the interlocutor was toiling hard, but then came the series of slanted media articles, which the Army suspects the Defence Ministry of inspiring and that hit at General Singh’s personal integrity. A day before the Army Day on January 15, Antony gave a dressing down to all his officers and made it clear that not a word should be leaked by his ministry. But the damage had been done.

General Singh was awarded the Yudh Seva Medal in 1989-90, the Ati Vasisht Seva Medal in 2006 and the Param Vishisht Seva Medal in 2009 by the President of India with his date of birth May 10, 1951 mentioned on them, but still the inspired media articles took pot shots at him. After hosting At-Home for the President, the Prime Minister and Congress president Sonia Gandhi, General Singh decided to take on his detractors. The writ petition was drafted by 3.00 am on Monday morning and submitted before the Court on the same day.


Looks like Unnithan and others have been writing on behalf of certain rogue bureaucrat elements in the Ministry of Defence. If RM has to dress down his baboos, it seems that there has been gross insubordination and defiance of political authority by some civil servants, in order to advance their own agenda. A worrying and unacceptable happening, in our democratic setup. If bureaucrats routinely start defying the authority of the duly elected representatives of the people, anarchy will prevail! Strong disciplinary action must be taken.
Last edited by ASPuar on 17 Jan 2012 20:46, edited 1 time in total.

Philip
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 17 Jan 2012 20:00

If Gen Singh's age was verified by the police aeons ago as being born in '51, and his commendation certificates show his age on them as such,how in hell has the IA f...ed up so badly and made him a year older?! If he was indeed commissioned into the IA,records then showing him as being born in '51, then that should be taken as the year of his birth.Surely,Gen.Kapoor and the other army officials to whom Gen Singh wrote to for redressal should've gone by the earliest records? There is justifiable grounds for believing that a conspiracy is at work for obvious reasons off who his successor will be.
There appears to be a very,very,sophisticated strategy to get Gen.Singh out early,by any means, to engineer a diff. line of succession.Whether this has to do with the recent exposures of scams like Adarsh,alleged land grabs etc.,also involving other top ranking generals,is a matter for investigation.It also appears that elements within the the MOD/IA are selectively leaking details/disinformation to the media to cloud/slant the issue.Now that the issue is with the SC,let's see what the court has to say.

The loser in the "Battle of the Birthday" is assuredly the GOI/UPA,as by its gross and shabby mishandling of the affair,they have now turned Gen.Singh into a martyr and even if they win,it will be a pyrrhic victory.Yet another medal of shame to be pinned onto the breast of our "honourable" PM,to add to the others of 2G,CWG,cash for votes,etc.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby tejas » 17 Jan 2012 20:18

The problem here is how the electorate in India never seems to punish any political party for ignoring national security and demeaning the military. In the US, politicians are ranked so low in public opinion and the military held in such high regard, that this type of incident is unimaginable. If any politician were to entertain such an imbecilic idea as forcing the wrong age down the throat of a military man of this stature, that would be the last political office he ever held.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 17 Jan 2012 20:28

Philip wrote:If Gen Singh's age was verified by the police aeons ago as being born in '51, and his commendation certificates show his age on them as such,how in hell has the IA f...ed up so badly and made him a year older?! If he was indeed commissioned into the IA,records then showing him as being born in '51, then that should be taken as the year of his birth.Surely,Gen.Kapoor and the other army officials to whom Gen Singh wrote to for redressal should've gone by the earliest records? There is justifiable grounds for believing that a conspiracy is at work for obvious reasons off who his successor will be.
There appears to be a very,very,sophisticated strategy to get Gen.Singh out early,by any means, to engineer a diff. line of succession.Whether this has to do with the recent exposures of scams like Adarsh,alleged land grabs etc.,also involving other top ranking generals,is a matter for investigation.It also appears that elements within the the MOD/IA are selectively leaking details/disinformation to the media to cloud/slant the issue.Now that the issue is with the SC,let's see what the court has to say.

The loser in the "Battle of the Birthday" is assuredly the GOI/UPA,as by its gross and shabby mishandling of the affair,they have now turned Gen.Singh into a martyr and even if they win,it will be a pyrrhic victory.Yet another medal of shame to be pinned onto the breast of our "honourable" PM,to add to the others of 2G,CWG,cash for votes,etc.

So sir, you got this finally.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 17 Jan 2012 20:56

IMPO, Chief will need a miracle to win this.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 17 Jan 2012 21:00

Philip wrote:There is justifiable grounds for believing that a conspiracy is at work for obvious reasons off who his successor will be.
There appears to be a very,very,sophisticated strategy to get Gen.Singh out early,by any means, to engineer a diff. line of succession.


So, you kinda understand what I was trying to tell you in the case of Arjun Tank.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 17 Jan 2012 21:14

chackojoseph wrote:IMPO, Chief will need a miracle to win this.

I believe he has clinching evidence in his favour. Something more than what is in public domain. Something that proves a conspiracy to fix his 'age'. OSA must be prohibiting its usage now. He will force the govt to place it before the court.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 17 Jan 2012 21:32

Thanks phillip saar for understanding

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 17 Jan 2012 21:58

chackojoseph wrote:IMPO, Chief will need a miracle to win this.


IMHO, he has already won. He has stood up for his honour, which every service officer is duty bound to do, and has completely exposed the moral bankruptcy and failure of the current bureaucratic setup in the MoD.

He has given an undertaking in the highest court of the land, that he will not seek ANY EXTENSION OF TENURE, but that he wants his DOB settled.

He has acted honourably, and the sad part is, that the flak for the malpractice and illegality committed by select generals and bureaucrats taking advantage of the same, is being borne by the political executive. Whichever officials are responsible should be strictly punished. They are taking advantage of a weakend union political executive, to advance their own insidious agenda.

Its time that it was recognised that the higher defence management must be reformed, and bureaucrats need to be eased out of MOD.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Roperia » 17 Jan 2012 22:12

'Embarrassed' govt may ask Army Chief VK Singh to proceed on leave

NEW DELHI: Embarrassed by the unprecedented action of Army Chief Gen V K Singh in moving the Supreme Court over the issue of his age, the government was on Tuesday night finalising its strategy with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh consulting senior ministers. There was speculation that Gen Singh may be asked to proceed on leave pending the apex court's view on his petition. But there was no confirmation of such a course from the ministry of defence.

The government took the expected step of filing a caveat in the Supreme Court requesting to be heard before passing any order on the writ petition filed by Gen Singh on Monday challenging the defence ministry's decision not to accept his position that he was born in 1951.

Defence minister A K Antony and law minister Salman Khurshid held a meeting with the Prime Minister to discuss the pros and cons of the Army Chief's action. There was no official word on what the government's strategy would be.

Caveat in SC

Even as it approached the apex court with the petition that it be heard before any order is passed, the government appeared to be waiting with bated breath on how the court proceeds on Gen Singh's petition that may come up for hearing on Friday.

All eyes are now on the Supreme Court even as some legal experts were of the view that Gen Singh should have approached Armed Forces Tribunal for redress of his complaint that his date of birth be taken as May 10,1951 and not as May 10,1950.

The apex court will be hearing on Friday a petition filed by The Grenadiers Association, Rohtak Chapter, in support of Gen Singh. It remains to be seen as to whether the court admits the petition filed by Gen Singh under Article 32 of the Constitution guaranteeing fundamental rights.


Sad day! I wrote a small email to the supreme court requesting to hear the chief and uphold the value of the institution of the COAS!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby arunsrinivasan » 17 Jan 2012 22:26

The news channels are reporting that the Govt has letters from the Army Chief where he accepted his DOB as May 10, 1950. Looks like the Govt is win this one... sad stuff.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 17 Jan 2012 22:27

I hope Indian Today knows just how much damage has been done to their own image thanks to this article. Media as a whole also needs to introspect on the methods they use to get meaty stories.

Informed BR junta aside, I doubt even masses appreciate COAS image being tarnished in a cover story.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Roperia » 17 Jan 2012 22:29

arunsrinivasan wrote:The news channels are reporting that the Govt has letters from the Army Chief where he accepted his DOB as May 10, 1950. Looks like the Govt is win this one... sad stuff.


The story I understand is the following - All his promotions till Lt. General were done according to 1951. He accepted 1950 as his DOB when the matter arose in 2006/08 and he was given a 24 hr deadline threatening disciplinary action, since his case was disturbing the line of succession. He replied that whatever is in the interest of the institution will be acceptable to me only after the then COAS Deepak Kapoor assured him of getting this date rectified. Now it seems that didn't work out and here we are in the court now.
Last edited by Roperia on 17 Jan 2012 22:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 17 Jan 2012 22:31

arunsrinivasan wrote:The news channels are reporting that the Govt has letters from the Army Chief where he accepted his DOB as May 10, 1950. Looks like the Govt is win this one... sad stuff.


If they take these letters to court they would be digging their own graves along with that of those in uniform who supported and colluded with them.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sanku » 17 Jan 2012 22:36

nelson wrote:
arunsrinivasan wrote:The news channels are reporting that the Govt has letters from the Army Chief where he accepted his DOB as May 10, 1950. Looks like the Govt is win this one... sad stuff.


If they take these letters to court they would be digging their own graves along with that of those in uniform who supported and colluded with them.


I think Gen V K Singh basically wants those letters and the UPA govt decisions in the court.

That is the prime objective.

Second is succession.

His personal honor and integrity is third.

Personal tenure is non issue.

Jai Hind, General Sahib, my spine feels a little stiffer already. Thank you Sir, for being the human being you are.

And thank you mother India, for you still bear such sons.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 17 Jan 2012 22:39

Arun Roperia wrote:'Embarrassed' govt may ask Army Chief VK Singh to proceed on leave

...There was speculation that Gen Singh may be asked to proceed on leave pending the apex court's view on his petition. But there was no confirmation of such a course from the ministry of defence....


...


Strange state of affairs in this country. Ministers and bureaucrats with allegations of selling the nation continue in office...a person in uniform with a clean image is sought to be eased out. Sad days indeed.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 17 Jan 2012 22:43

Brigadier’s records erased, army tribunal suspects ‘foul’ play

NEW DELHI: A case of illegality in Army promotions has come to light where a Brigadier's career records were erased in a "foul" manner which had almost cost him his elevation to the rank of Major General.

The matter surfaced in the Armed Forces Tribunal (AFT) which was hearing the petition of Brigadier V G Gole, who had alleged that a portion of his Annual Confidential record (ACR) was erased, which was illegal, arbitrary and without jurisdiction.

The officer had approached the Tribunal for expunging the effaced portion of his ACR and considering his case afresh for promotion to the rank of Major General after he was denied elevation by an Army promotion panel in September last year.


Allowing the petition, the Tribunal head Justice A K Mathur said, "It speaks volume that such kind of illegality can be committed against an officer. This is a serious matter and we are constrained to observe that it requires deeper consideration by higher authority. :rotfl: They should pinpoint the officer responsible who has played foul thereby affecting the career of the officer. We allow this petition with cost of Rs 10,000 and expunge the effacing of the ACR of the Brigadier from January to June 2009".

The AFT said marks of the officer should be restored back and he should be considered for promotion to the post of Major General in accordance with rules.The Tribunal directed the authorities that the impending retirement will not come in way of consideration of the petitioner for promotion.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sanjeevpunj » 17 Jan 2012 22:52

This is where our Army is stuck! Bureaucracy.The two never can see eye to eye,one stands for decisive action,the other stands for delayed reactions.I feel bureaucrats are paid just to do this kind of work-scan ancient documents and to raise issues that waste national resources, instead of working productively.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Roperia » 17 Jan 2012 22:55

IMO, if he is sacked or something on those lines, it'll be a self goal given the large no. of veterans in Punjab and may be other four states going to elections as well.

Politics aside, I'm very disappointed in this govt. handling of each and every situation. This is not going to be good from here on now.

If the govt loses, they might scuttle Chief's every move till he is in office but if the Chief loses, he would sadly face an even worse situation.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Jamie Boscardin » 17 Jan 2012 22:58

For once I will toe Philip's line, its the worst central government and worst example of PM and his team doing a pathetic job continuously and consistently. Never vote for UPA ever again is my 2012 vow.

On one hand the entire government ministers and congress party were veraciously arguing during the Lokpal debate that the "post of PM" should be out of anyone jurisdiction of judgement:
1. As he is the head of the entire Indian Nation.
2. It will look pathetic, when an Indian PM is visiting abroad, when he is mired in a "Lokpal initiated investigation" for corruption at home etc etc.

Now, the Army Chief on the same grounds, should be way above any government servant [unlike what Khurshid projected("A rule is a rule, it applies to all government servant")]. The armed forces are the strengths/shoulders on which the nation is punching forward towards becoming a superpower.

I just wish that the armed forces rally around the chief, get all the intel on how the programs were aired by the TV channels and the source of their information and screw the culprits balls.
Vishnu Som, you should tender a public apology for your BS* on national television.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajanb » 17 Jan 2012 23:02

nelson wrote:'Embarrassed' govt may ask Army Chief VK Singh to proceed on leave

...There was speculation that Gen Singh may be asked to proceed on leave pending the apex court's view on his petition. But there was no confirmation of such a course from the ministry of defence....


...


Strange state of affairs in this country. Ministers and bureaucrats with allegations of selling the nation continue in office...a person in uniform with a clean image is sought to be eased out. Sad days indeed.[/quote]

Considering that the MoD has been on leave for decades. look at the way they have handled procurement and budgets for inhouse development for projects?

BTW, can the MoD ask him to proceed on leave? isn't the President the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces?

Here is to VKS winning and showing the politicians in a bad light!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 17 Jan 2012 23:06

I suppose its the MS branch again in this above case?


Philip at last you see the light.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 17 Jan 2012 23:10

There are many instances of officer at level of Corps commanders having been asked to proceed on long leave. (Late) Lt Gen Kapil Vij's case at the beginning of Operation Parakram springs up immediately. This doe not tantamount dismissal or removal from service for which the President's assent is required.
Unprecedented as it is , this case would be another first if COAS is asked to proceed on leave.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 17 Jan 2012 23:12

^^The general belief in army circles used to be that the MS branch always goes by rules. Only that you give your IC No, they get out the set of rules applicable to you.:-)

PS: consider this in a lighter vein.
Last edited by nelson on 17 Jan 2012 23:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajanb » 17 Jan 2012 23:18

nelson wrote:^^The general belief in army circles used to be that the MS branch always goes by rules. Only that you give your IC No, they get out the set of rules applicable to you.:-)


This is a very serious question. Does any of you BRFites know how to setup and popularise a petition on the internet (like greenpeace does) which can then be forwarded to the PM's office?

Let us channelise our disgust in an appropriate way and send it across to the PMO?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby member_20344 » 17 Jan 2012 23:27

we can create a petition online at change{dot}org

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajanb » 17 Jan 2012 23:33

Lokesh wrote:we can create a petition online at change{dot}org


Thanks lokesh.

We would need to word it appropriately and also have a database of email-ids to send it to? Besides advertising it on India specific social networking sites etc.?

I would also check with my lawyer to see that if the SC takes up the petition, whether it being sub-judice has any implications.

Come on guys, lets put words into action! 8)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Atri » 17 Jan 2012 23:50

Arun Roperia wrote:'Embarrassed' govt may ask Army Chief VK Singh to proceed on leave

NEW DELHI: Embarrassed by the unprecedented action of Army Chief Gen V K Singh in moving the Supreme Court over the issue of his age, the government was on Tuesday night finalising its strategy with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh consulting senior ministers. There was speculation that Gen Singh may be asked to proceed on leave pending the apex court's view on his petition. But there was no confirmation of such a course from the ministry of defence.

The government took the expected step of filing a caveat in the Supreme Court requesting to be heard before passing any order on the writ petition filed by Gen Singh on Monday challenging the defence ministry's decision not to accept his position that he was born in 1951.

Defence minister A K Antony and law minister Salman Khurshid held a meeting with the Prime Minister to discuss the pros and cons of the Army Chief's action. There was no official word on what the government's strategy would be.

Caveat in SC

Even as it approached the apex court with the petition that it be heard before any order is passed, the government appeared to be waiting with bated breath on how the court proceeds on Gen Singh's petition that may come up for hearing on Friday.

All eyes are now on the Supreme Court even as some legal experts were of the view that Gen Singh should have approached Armed Forces Tribunal for redress of his complaint that his date of birth be taken as May 10,1951 and not as May 10,1950.

The apex court will be hearing on Friday a petition filed by The Grenadiers Association, Rohtak Chapter, in support of Gen Singh. It remains to be seen as to whether the court admits the petition filed by Gen Singh under Article 32 of the Constitution guaranteeing fundamental rights.


Sad day! I wrote a small email to the supreme court requesting to hear the chief and uphold the value of the institution of the COAS!



Dedicated to Mr. Rai (CAG), General Sahib and few others. If you are reading this site, please take a serious note of this.



०३:०८ से ०५:३० तक देखें..

विष्णुगुप्त - मेरी स्मृति मे ऐसे कई संस्मरण हैं जो दुखद हैं. ऐसे कई कटुसत्य जिसपे इस धरा के किसी पुत्र को गौरव नहीं होगा. इस प्रवास मे मैंने उस भारत को देखा हैं जो टूट गया हैं, और टूट रहा हैं. उस समाज को देखा हैं जो अपनी संस्कृति मूल्यों और परम्पराओं की रक्षा करने मे असमर्थ हैं. इस प्रवास मे मैंने उस भारत को देखा हैं को अत्याचारियों को सह रहा हैं, ढो रहा हैं. मैंने असहाय निर्बल और विवश हो रहे भारत को देखा हैं. जिसे मैं देख आया हूँ उस भारत की कथा मे कुछ रोचक नहीं हैं. उसमे तो बस करुणा ही करुणा हैं.

वररुचि: मुझे दुःख हैं आचार्य की......

विष्णु: अपने उत्तरदायित्व से पलायन करना कितना सरल हैं, महामंत्री. यह मगध का दुर्भाग्य नहीं तो और क्या हैं, की उसके राजनितिक चिन्तक एक ऐसे परंपरा को जन्म दे रहें हैं जहाँ अपने उत्तरदायित्वों से पलायन करनेका राजनीतिज्ञों को अधिकार प्राप्त हैं. और उसे त्याग की संज्ञा दी जा रही हैं. जिन्हें त्याग देना चाहिए वे सत्ता पर आसीन हैं, सुदृढ़ हैं. और जिन्हें दूसरों से त्यागपत्र माँगना चाहिए वे त्यागपत्र दे रहें हैं??? इससे आपके चरित्र की दुर्बलता ही परिलक्षित होती हैं, आर्य!!! आपका यह त्याग प्रशंसा के योग्य नहीं.

वररुचि: जहाँ महामंत्री पद की गरिमा ही नष्ट कर दी गयी हों वहां पदत्याग के अतिरिक्त और कोई सन्मानजनक मार्ग भी तो नहीं रहता आचार्य..

विष्णु: अपनी गरिमा के प्रति कितने सतर्क हैं आप.. और इस धरा की गरिमा के प्रति??? अपनी प्रतिमा, अपनी छबि के प्रति सजग हैं आप, पर इस धरा की प्रतिमा, इस धरा की छबि के प्रति कोई सजग हैं? अपने हित मे आपने अपनी दिशा निश्चित कर ली, और इस धरा के सन्दर्भ मे? इस धरा को आपने उनके हाथों सोंप दिया जो आपको त्यागपत्र देने के लिए विवश कर रहें हैं? सत्ता का त्याग उन्हें करना हैं, आपको नहीं. सत्ता का त्याग धनानंद को करना हैं, आपको नहीं. सत्ता का त्याग धनानंद के समर्थकों को करना हैं, आपको नहीं. और इस धरा के हित में आप विचार नहीं कर सकते तो इस धरा को आपकी आवश्यकता नहीं. इस समाज को आपकी आवश्यकता नहीं हैं. मैं तो यहाँ तक कहूँगा की जो कुछ आपके साथ हुआ हैं उसके लिए दोषी आप हैं, धनानंद नहीं. मगध के पतन के लिए आप भी उत्तरदायी हैं, महामंत्री.

Watch from 03:08 to 05:30

Vishnu: I have many memories which are tragic. Many bitter truths which won't make any Indian proud. I have seen an India which is broken. I have seen that society which is unable to protect its values and traditions. I have seen that India which is bearing and continuing to bear the oppressors simply because there is no other option. I have seen a helpless India, minister which is becoming hopeless. There is nothing captivating about the India that I have seen.

Vararuchi: I feel sad, acharya that....

Vishnu: How easy it is to run away from responsibilities, Minister.. What more can be a misfortune of Magadha that the political thinkers are giving rise to a tradition which accepts resignation as means to run away from responsibilities. And it is being called as sacrifice?? Those who have to resign are sitting on chair, happily. And those who have to demand resignation are resigning?? This merely shows your debilitated character, minister. This resignation is not worthy of praise.

Vararuchi: How is possible to serve an office with dignity, acharya, where the very respect for the office has been defiled?

Vishnu: How conscious are you about your personal dignity.. And what about dignity of India? You are conscious about your image and standing, what about image and standing of India? You have decided about your dignified course of future life, what about India's dignified future? You have handed over India to those who are "forcing" you to resign so that they can relish upon this land?? They have to resign, not you. Nanda dynasty has to resign with their clan and supporters, not you. And if you aren't thinking well for India, you have no right to command the respect she gives you. I will go to an extent and say that whatever is happening to you, you are responsible for it.

Asit P
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Asit P » 18 Jan 2012 00:44

Brilliantly put Atri Jee. There couldn't have been a better way of describing the current scenario!

ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2012 01:24

Pioneer reports
LINK

As the Ministry of Defence and Army chief gear up for a battle royale in the Supreme Court over General VK Singh’s age, the latter is relying on a set of documents, which could pose serious challenge to the Ministry’s contention.

Refusing to accept his date of birth as May 10, 1951, General Singh has attached a Government response under RTI. In this official response on May 8. 2011, the MoD accepted the General’s year of birth as 1951. Before this response, a communication issued by the Adjutant General’s (AG) Branch on February 25, 2011 also supported Singh’s claim.

General Singh has revealed that by a blanket order of July 21, 2011, the MoD subsequently declared both the above communications as “null and void and non est”. Singh has challenged this order as “arbitrary” and “illegal.” The petition filed by Singh has questioned the action of the Centre to nullify its previous orders through an office memorandum.

The petition filed by advocate SS Jauhar and drafted by advocate Puneet Bali stated, “The order dated July 21, 2011 passed by the Ministry of Defence superseding and treating the order of February 25, 2011 (passed by AG Branch) as null and void and non est is without jurisdiction and has been passed in an illegal manner.”

All records related to Army officer’s age, tenure, and service details are kept with the AG Branch. For this reason too, the petition said, “Once the appropriate authority, i.e., the AG Branch based upon the legal advice of the legal advisory had recorded the date of birth as May 10, 1951… under what jurisdiction and authority of law the order dated July 21, 2011 was passed.”


On an RTI request by a Delhi-based Kamal Taori, the Information Headquarters of MoD on May 8, 2011 said, “Date of Birth as recorded in High School Certificate (Rajasthan Board) as well as in other documents of General VK Singh COAS is May 10, 1951.”

Pointing to the divergence of view existing between the AG Branch and Military Secretary (MS) Branch, the RTI response given by DDG RTI Brigadier AK Tyagi said, “There was an omission in one Branch and as advised by Legal Advisor (Defence and Ministry of Law and Justice) necessary correction is being made to correct this omission.”

But in U-turn, that triggered the age row, the MoD on July 21 said, “Both on facts and in substance, it could not be stated that there were no anomalies in the records and it was completely fallacious to state that there was ‘only one omission’ in one Branch.”


On the grounds that the AG Branch’s communication was not routed through the Defence Ministry and that the Legal Advisor (Defence) had no approval from the Law Ministry, the Centre overturned the February 25 and May 8 orders and established the official year of birth to be 1950.

AGE ROW

    In plea to SC, Gen Singh has attached a Govt' response under RTI which accepted the his year of birth as 1951
    However by a blanket order of July 21, 2011, MoD declared its RTI reply as ‘null and void’ and non est
    His advocate states, ‘The July 21, 2011 order of MoD superseding and treating the order of February 25, 2011 (passed by AG Branch) as null and void is without jurisdiction and has been passed in an illegal manner’


ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2012 01:39

Hind Times reports the issue is between two branches of the IA iteslef and not as being portrayed as between Civil and Military

Govt going by Army word on Gen's Age

This one is tactic to seek higher ground after the mess and blame it on the IA branches itself i.e in Gen Singh's purvey.


Though it is widely being interpreted as such, the dispute over army chief General VK Singh’s year of birth is not a conflict between the civilian government and the army.

The conflict originated between two branches of the army headquarters, and the first decision on what has now snowballed into a major controversy was taken by the army’s top brass itself.


Two immediate predecessors of the current chief — General JJ Singh in 2006 and General Deepak Kapoor in 2009 — concluded that the legally maintainable year of birth for General VK Singh can only be 1950. The government’s subsequent decisions were based on this. He was commissioned in the army in 1970.

It was only in 2006 that the Military Secretary (MS) branch asked him to clarify about the existence of his two dates of birth in official records, before his promotion to corps commander. The MS branch, which is responsible for transfers and promotions of officers, maintained that Singh’s date of birth was May 10, 1950.

The Adjutant General (AG) branch, the official record keeper of the army, however, showed his year of birth as 1951. Though Singh has consistently maintained that all his service records show 1951 as his year of birth, he did give two undertakings in 2008 and 2009 that he would abide by the army’s decision on treating 1950 as his year of birth. The undertakings were given when he was due to be promoted first to commander and then to chief in April 2010.


The matter became public in January last year, when in response to a right to information query filed by a Lucknow resident, the army replied on the basis of a controversial opinion by the law ministry that Singh’s year of birth was 1951.

It was at this stage that the defence ministry intervened for the first time in May after the army pressed for change in Singh’s year of birth. It asked the law ministry to seek the attorney general’s opinion, who stated that no change could be allowed at this stage.

Attorney general GE Vahanvati reiterated his opinion in June and December (2011) that Singh’s year of birth will remain 1950 and he will have to retire in May this year.


Expert opinion is divided on the issue. Lt Gen (retd) VG Patankar says it is wrong to term the issue as government versus army. “I don’t think it is so. It is a personal issue that has become so big by virtue of the office being talked about.”

However, Lt Gen (retd) Vinod Chopra is of the view that government must have known about the issue.

“My feeling is that the army would have at least kept the defence ministry informed about the sensitive development. It is not possible that the army would have acted on its own.”



ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2012 01:57

So the problems started in 2006 under Gen. JJ Singh. And the problems are in MS branch. So who was the MS under Gen JJ Singh in 2006? The later continuation the issue is from that initial strike.
The other troubling issue is the reported verbal word from Gen. Kapoor to correct the discrepancy brought to his attention.

The July GOI decision is based on procedural lapses committed by its own branches. It does not address the basic problem of discrepant DOB in two branches of the govt. Dont the AG and MS branch communicate or are there black lentils?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 18 Jan 2012 01:58


ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2012 02:07

Murugan wrote:
If General Singh's date of birth is taken as May 10, 1951 then he will retire in March 2013 and if May 10, 1950 is accepted then his tenure will come to an end in May 2012. The difference of one year will have an affect on who will succeed him as the next Army Chief.

If he retires on May 31, 2012 then Eastern Army Commander Lieutenant General Bikram Singh will take over as the next Army Chief, but if he demits office in March 2013 then Northern Army commander Lieutenant General KT Parnaik could take over from him as Lt Gen Bikram Singh will retire later in 2012.

But if General Singh is removed or resigns before May 31, 2012, then Western Command Chief Lieutenant General Shankar Ghosh, who is the senior most serving officer in the Army, will take on as the 27th Chief of the Indian Army.


http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-moves-s ... 655-3.html



So who in GOi is feeding these speculations?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby SBajwa » 18 Jan 2012 02:39

So Gen. Bikram Singh's son who lives in Dubai is married to a Pakistani woman. This is very DANGEROUS!!!

ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2012 02:41

Jan 18th headlines

TOI:

Rajat Pandit and Dhanjay Mahapatra:

Govt decides on tough response

NEW DELHI: A day after it was ambushed by General V K Singh who took his battle over his age to the Supreme Court, an angry government on Tuesday decided to take on the Army chief frontally in the apex court.

Incensed by Gen Singh's surprise move, and regretting that it allowed itself to be outmaneuvered by him, the government explored the entire spectrum of options, ranging from simply letting the court take a call on the case to asking the Army chief to resign or go on leave and naming his successor before time.

As of now, the radical step to sack the Army chief is not being considered. It is recognized that Gen Singh has managed to "manipulate" perception to paint himself as a victim and, therefore, the first move in the counter-strike should be to blast holes in his version, say government sources.

The Centre has decided to field attorney general G E Vahanvati and solicitor general R F Nariman in court to rebut Gen Singh's case that he was treated unfairly, having already moved a caveat in the Supreme Court to prevent him from securing any relief without it being heard.

The line of succession will also be "fully protected", with Eastern Army commander Lt-Gen Bikram Singh being the frontrunner to replace the incumbent when he retires on May 31.

With BJP attacking the government for "mishandling" the issue, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and others, including defence minister A K Antony and law minister Salman Khurshid, spent Tuesday strategizing on the various options.

The attorney general and the solicitor general, it is learnt, also had detailed discussions with PMO officials. Defence secretary Shashikant Sharma, too, joined the fire-fighting by cutting short his official trip to Malaysia.

As it seethes with anger, the government is also realizing that it was strung along by Gen Singh who, sources claimed, gave assurances that he would accept May 10, 1950 as his date of birth: pledges that he reneged time and again. :eek:

Moreover, at least three ministers had gone out of the way to praise the general, lavishing superlatives on him. Now it is recognized that the generous testimonials may be used by Gen Singh in case the government takes recourse to drastic action against him. Hence the need to breach his defence in the court by giving a detailed account of his "manipulation" and string of broken promises, said sources. :eek:

Antony, who trusted the chief against the counsel of senior officials :) who had tried to alert him to the "Janus- type qualities" of the general, :( is hurt and angry over having been taken for a ride. The trust deficit between the two is just one of the reasons why there is a unanimous feeling in the government that Gen Singh's continuation as Army chief has become "untenable", sources said.

{It means that AKA will have to resign. This will have consequences on his future role in the polticial system.}

The court battle itself may lead to "a conflict-of-interest situation" involving the Army chief, who bosses over the Adjutant General and Military Secretary branches: the two wings which have the custody of records crucial to the dispute over his date of birth (DoB).

Finally, for all his disclaimers, the government has taken Gen Singh's conduct as a case of gross indiscipline and feels the need to nip the risk of it becoming a precedent in the 13-lakh strong armed forces. :( There are indications that a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security may soon be called to finesse government's counter-measures against Gen Singh.


{Its about time the perpetrators of 1962 debacle are made accountable}

The Army chief, armed with his matriculation certificate and other documents, on his part, has called it a battle for "his personal honour and integrity". He has declared if the court corrects his DoB from May 10, 1950 to May 10, 1951 as he wants, he will not seek an extended tenure and go home on May 31 as scheduled.

{Did he say this? Or is it babu spin?}

If the DoB is settled at 1951, Gen Singh in the normal course would serve till March 2013, paving the way for present Northern Army commander Lt-Gen K T Parnaik to become the next Army chief.

The government's defence revolves around Gen Singh's three letters of January 2008 and November 2009 "accepting" his DoB as May 10, 1950, and assurances that he would "maintain" it.

In a 2009 letter to then Army chief Gen Deepak Kapoor, Gen Singh said he had "learnt of some misgivings and doubts being raised on my commitment given on my DoB as per your directions. You are well aware that I have not gone back on this commitment... I have taken your directions in letter and spirit..."

The government argues Gen Singh's promotions to the rank of first Army commander (senior Lt-General) in 2008 and then the Army chief in 2010, as cleared by the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet, was done taking into account his written acceptances on his DoB. "So, Gen Singh now seems to be going against his own assurances to the Army and government," said an official.



Those assurances were got under duress and are not of freewill. Those seeking such assurances were superio officers of Gen Singh at that time. So there is a conflict of interest and an appearance of being ordered to accept it. Were J.J. Singh and D. Kapoor in mufti when seeking those assurance/letters?

Gen Kapoor said he would correct the mistake and it was not done either by negligence or otherwise. The officials are playing upon the Politicians fears and making merry by leaking ans speaking without being quoted.

Hindustan Times:

Govt closes ranksreadies to battle Army chief in court

Deccan Herald

UnSoldierly Act

This one takes the cake. The one who is battling corruption in the Army is being accused of being Unsoldierly by a paper far away from the borders.

Sid
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sid » 18 Jan 2012 02:58

Question to ponder upon is "have we ever asked such questions to a politician who might have murdered 10 people before taking oath as a minister of India?"

This kind of B.S. will set a benchmark in forces that even if you become COAS you won't be able to protect yourself against such crap flying around. This sense of insecurity will reflect in the psyche of officers few years down the line.

Also, everyone is just tired of Mr. Anthony's Mr Clean image. For gods sake, how many people he will screw up just to maintain his image. He is just a minister not COAS.


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