Indian Army: News & Discussion

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nelson
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 31 Jan 2012 16:17

kancha wrote:No Vik,
That is because the forces no longer use the .303. That had no grip to hold it by the side of the body.
Look at the Delhi Police contingent. They still use these for the parade and carry it on their shoulders because there's just no way they can carry it by their side.

Bingo.

The position adopted for march-past with SLR/ INSAS is 'Bhagal Shashtra'.



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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajrang » 31 Jan 2012 19:21

aditp wrote:
rajrang wrote:quote="aditp"
Agreed Lt Gen Sinha is indeed a great man. He rendered sane advice to IG that she ignored and the rest is history. end-quote

What was the sane advice that IG ignored - was it something to do with Operation Bluestar?


He strongly advised against it.


That explains why IG superseded him with Gen Vaidya.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ManuT » 31 Jan 2012 20:34

kunalverma wrote:Lt Gen RS Dayal's passing away in Chandigarh on the 29th coincided with the Beating of the Retreat in Delhi. Known for his spirited attack and capture of Haji Pir in 1965,

An etremely warm and caring person, he will always be remembered as one of the great personalities in the Indian Army who left his stamp on this country's history. My deepest condolences to his family and also to the Para and Rajput fraternity.


My respects.

(greetings to you)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 31 Jan 2012 21:02

Now brace yourself for this and more.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/forme ... herstories

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 31 Jan 2012 21:27

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 701236.cms

"Absolutely, it is within the Army. After 36 years, you suddenly decide to come up with an issue. There is something wrong with it," the Army Chief told reporters.


Well , he is clear in his blame. It is directed to two predecessors and no to Army itself.

"Problems should have been sorted out. There was a problem of coordination between the two branches. I had said earlier also that steps have been taken to ensure that such things will never recur in future," he added.

The branch which dealt with the service records in the ministry has been given full authority in these matters, he said.


I hope that this really works out.

On the issue of the letter by defence ministry, he said, "There is no rift (with defence ministry)... There is a normal procedure. Letter is sent and it is studied. Everything takes its time. It is not that letter comes and with the press of a button everything is done." Gen Singh was asked why the Adjutant General's (AG) branch of the Army was yet to respond to the January 23 letter of the defence ministry, directing it to change the date of birth record from May 10, 1951 to May 10, 1950.


I love this reply of his. MOD sends letter bypassing him and normal channel of communication and that too when matter is sub judice . Babus won't touch a matter in this manner if SC is seized of the matter.This shows the enormous pressure they face and are afraid that SC would pass stinking strictures. They know that their case is zilch and COAS is going to win hands down.


However such idiotic steps was not expected.

AKA's body language in that press conference was that of a man who is laden with guilt. Babus misguided him or army was at fault, but statutory complaints are addressed to Defence Minister and he should have acted wisely.

They should figure out how to work with COAS till 2013, and fast.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 31 Jan 2012 21:34

nelson wrote:Now brace yourself for this and more.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/forme ... herstories


The Army believes that a network of officers colluded to profit from underhand arrangement.


Well that goes to prove that Babus and netas alone don't have copyright on corruption.Army officers are not above it. afterall, everyone is selected from the Society that we have.

But as always, we should see the individuals rather than tarnishing the whole class.
Last edited by chaanakya on 31 Jan 2012 21:46, edited 1 time in total.

nelson
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 31 Jan 2012 21:44

^ I meant it to be an example of babus going berserk and media playing their tune to perfection. Had they found something intriguing they would be screaming on top of their voice.

I also say Army officers are not above it.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sanku » 31 Jan 2012 23:40

chaanakya wrote:They should figure out how to work with COAS till 2013, and fast.


This would be yet another of our "I told you so" statements, if it comes to pass.

I am waiting with baited breath.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby arnab » 01 Feb 2012 05:44

In a peculiar turn of events today, defence minister has blamed the Indian Army and army chief Gen. V.K. Singh has also blamed his army for stirring the row over his age.

The case, Gen. Singh vs the Union of India, is slated to be heard by the Supreme Court this Friday.

“It’s been 36 years but the government was not in picture. It was only known to the army. In 2006, the army noticed two dates of birth, then it went to the level of army chief (Gen. J.J. Singh, now retired and the governor of Arunachal Pradesh). The government of that day took a decision and recommended it to the army. Where is the civil-military controversy? In 2008 it was another army chief (Gen. Deepak Kapoor, now retired) and then the recommendation was sent to the government and the government accepted that,” A.K. Antony said.

Commenting on the defence minister’s observation, Gen. Singh admitted: “Yes, it is a problem in the army... he is right”. He added: “Problems should have been sorted out. There was a problem of co-ordination between two branches. I had said earlier also that steps have been taken to ensure that such things will never recur in future.”


http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120201/j ... 077591.jsp


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 01 Feb 2012 08:23

They called Katoch a straight shooter

He does not disappoint

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?279760

something drastic needs to be done to curb these babus - the bane of society

The Shikhandi Salvo

It was pathetic to watch our white washed cricket team in Australia sending very young members to face the media, but did the Ministry of Defence ( MoD) have to follow suit?

Media is abuzz with MoD ordering the Adjutant General to change the date of Gen V.K. Singh to 10 May 1950, through an undated letter signed by a Deputy Secretary level officer— KL Nandwani. It is not known how long Nandwani has been in MoD but he obviously has absolutely no idea of what are the charter and authority of various branches of Army Headquarters. Had he educated himself, he would have known that Adjutant General’s Branch is the sole authority for service records and he should have directed this note to Military Secretary Branch to reconcile the age of Gen V.K. Singh with the Adjutant General.

Nandwani should also know what the laws of India concerning date of birth are and that a flourish of a deputy secretary’s pen cannot wipe off 42 years of records of age of Gen V.K. Singh in his Service Records including of NDA and IMA, casualty of birth published by 14 Rajput (his Father’s unit), grant of commission to him by the President of India, service identity card issued on commissioning, all promotion boards including elevation to Army Chief based on 10 May 1951, all decorations awarded to the officer by President of India based on 10 May 1951, and the like.

Does Nandwani hallucinate he actually has such dictatorial powers— similar to the fellow who hallucinated in 2006 that Indian Army is his personal fiefdom and decided who should be Army Chief in 2012. Surely Nandwani should know that even the Defence Minister or the Defence Secretary cannot write to the Personal Branch of the ministry / government to reduce or increase the age of Nandvani just because they like or do not like the colour of his eyes. Changes in date of birth in Service Records cannot be changed in this manner. This is not child’s play.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 01 Feb 2012 08:48

Surya, Once again who is that who thinks IA is his fiefdom?

similar to the fellow who hallucinated in 2006 that Indian Army is his personal fiefdom and decided who should be Army Chief in 2012.


Is Katoch a gunnery officer? His barbs hit like Emden!

Maybe philip knows what I am talking about.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 01 Feb 2012 09:00

ramana

am not sure who he is talking about - i have asked but either people do not want to say it or will tell only when conversing directly

he is special forces guy (as rohit said he led the SF into Golden Temple)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 01 Feb 2012 09:56

Emden was German Cruiser that shelld Madras in WWI. Its fire was so accurate that in colloquial Telugu when one hits a home run its said "Hits like Emden!"

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 01 Feb 2012 10:13

nelson wrote:Now brace yourself for this and more.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/forme ... herstories

And more. I don't wonder why Army is getting such negative publicity, with channel repeatedly telecasting the incident, just to stoke something.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/army ... eststories

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby adityadange » 01 Feb 2012 11:06


Raja Bose
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Raja Bose » 01 Feb 2012 12:19

ramana wrote:
Is Katoch a gunnery officer? His barbs hit like Emden!


No, sir he is from Para Cdo. Got severely injured during the assault on Akal Takht and also escaped an assassination bid while he was in hospital. He has faced death itself and hence, is unafraid of anything else.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby schowdhuri » 01 Feb 2012 12:22

A similar incident happened in Kolkata a few yers back. The Bengali media was quick to blast the army, and police officers off all ranks including (I think) the Commisioner came on TV to say how bad the army was and how they would sort out the ary people.

Then the story went old, so it was never reported how later investigations showed the police to be at fault. So, for all the general public, the army remains at fault in the incident.

I won't be too surprised if something similar happens. Also, more and more I see that might is right principle is the one that works in this country (notwithstanding the high profile court cases). No doubt the army people are also seeing that.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby member_22635 » 01 Feb 2012 12:26

schowdhuri wrote:A similar incident happened in Kolkata a few yers back. The Bengali media was quick to blast the army, and police officers off all ranks including (I think) the Commisioner came on TV to say how bad the army was and how they would sort out the ary people.

Then the story went old, so it was never reported how later investigations showed the police to be at fault. So, for all the general public, the army remains at fault in the incident.

I won't be too surprised if something similar happens. Also, more and more I see that might is right principle is the one that works in this country (notwithstanding the high profile court cases). No doubt the army people are also seeing that.


A New Year Eve case, Police of Park Street Police station detained some drunk jawans for molesting new year revelers. The news went like Army personnels came and asked for release when the police didn't listen they ransacked the station and took the jawans away. The OC of the police station apparently fled when he sensed trouble. Don't know what happened after that.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby schowdhuri » 01 Feb 2012 12:35

salman_qu wrote:
schowdhuri wrote:A similar incident happened in Kolkata a few yers back. The Bengali media was quick to blast the army, and police officers off all ranks including (I think) the Commisioner came on TV to say how bad the army was and how they would sort out the ary people.

Then the story went old, so it was never reported how later investigations showed the police to be at fault. So, for all the general public, the army remains at fault in the incident.

I won't be too surprised if something similar happens. Also, more and more I see that might is right principle is the one that works in this country (notwithstanding the high profile court cases). No doubt the army people are also seeing that.


A New Year Eve case, Police of Park Street Police station detained some drunk jawans for molesting new year revelers. The news went like Army personnels came and asked for release when the police didn't listen they ransacked the station and took the jawans away. The OC of the police station apparently fled when he sensed trouble. Don't know what happened after that.


Turned out to be a fake story by the Police. The police story also mentioned how the army officers misbehaved inside Park Hotel, but the opposite eidence was given by Park Hotel staff. Years of CPM rule have turned the force into an extortion gang - nothing more.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 01 Feb 2012 13:26

^^^ In the name of discipline and security, this country is demonising the soldiers. At our own peril.
And the senior officers instead of suggesting a prompt and detailed inquiry is ready to punish the 'guilty' already.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 850217.ece

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 01 Feb 2012 13:28

Raja Bose wrote:
ramana wrote:
Is Katoch a gunnery officer? His barbs hit like Emden!


No, sir he is from Para Cdo. Got severely injured during the assault on Akal Takht and also escaped an assassination bid while he was in hospital. He has faced death itself and hence, is unafraid of anything else.


My dad was there. Knew him. Same place type, you see. :P This was MH Jallandhar.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 01 Feb 2012 13:40

adityadange wrote:From Indian Express: Army personnel beat up cops, mediamen and civilians

This is bad.


Here is a associated video: http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pune-army-jawans-clash-with-traffic-policemen/226001-3.html
You can see the aam-junta having a go at the jawans/officers.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 01 Feb 2012 13:42

nelson wrote:^^^ In the name of discipline and security, this country is demonising the soldiers. At our own peril.
And the senior officers instead of suggesting a prompt and detailed inquiry is ready to punish the 'guilty' already.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 850217.ece


nelson, to me, the above seems like a routine statement expected to released by HQ. There is nothing against the men by HQ in the report. It is just the PRO releasing comments on behalf of Southern Command HQ.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Ravishankar » 01 Feb 2012 13:46

Indian Army preparing for limited conflict with China: US intel chief

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 710850.cms

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 01 Feb 2012 14:07

Ravishankar wrote:Indian Army preparing for limited conflict with China: US intel chief

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 710850.cms
"The Indian Army believes a major Sino-Indian conflict is not imminent, but the Indian military is strengthening its forces in preparation to fight a limited conflict along the disputed border, and is working to balance Chinese power projection in the Indian Ocean," he said.

India, Clapper said, has expressed support for a strong US military posture in East Asia and US engagement in Asia. He said China in 2011 appeared to temper the assertive behavior that characterised its foreign policy the year before, but the internal and external drivers of that behavior persist.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ManishH » 01 Feb 2012 14:25

adityadange wrote:From Indian Express: Army personnel beat up cops, mediamen and civilians

This is bad.


YOs will be YOs. The commandant will defend them in public, but it will be "pitthoo parade" or "balli drill" for them ;-)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kunalverma » 01 Feb 2012 14:31

rohitvats wrote:
My dad was there. Knew him. Same place type, you see. :P This was MH Jallandhar.


We were there too -5 Mall Road - my father was Brig Adam in Jallandhar at that time. I was at the time with India Today and covered Blue Star.

Ramana, in the extended Army family, it's more like the one degree of seperation!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 01 Feb 2012 15:28

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 712503.cms

Army orders inquiry into Pune clash
PTI | Feb 1, 2012, 02.51PM IST


NEW DELHI: Army has ordered a court of inquiry to probe an incident in Pune where the local police alleged its constables were assaulted by a group of soldiers after caught driving into a no-entry area.

"College of Military Engineering (CME) has ordered a court of inquiry (CoI) headed by a Colonel. After investigation appropriate action will be taken," Army officials said here on Wednesday.

The incident took place after two young officers entered a bridge, which was not meant for two wheelers. They were stopped at the other end of the bridge by a constable and told to pay a fine, they said.

"As the officers were paying the fine, another constable reached the spot and mentioned that he was harassed in the Army area for not wearing a helmet and now he will sort them (two young officers) out, leading to a confrontation between them," officials claimed.

The two officers were then taken to the police station.
However, according to the local police, the trouble started when an Army person attached to the CME, riding a motorbike, was stopped by a traffic constable at Sambhaji Bridge for running into a no-entry area.

They then returned with his friends and allegedly assaulted the policemen at the nearby outpost, police said, adding they also broke the cameras of mediapersons who had rushed to the spot.

Deputy commissioner of police Sanjay Jadhav said the CME jawans had allegedly abused and assaulted police constables and action was being taken against the culprits.


The truth comes out. Disgruntled Police Constable misbehaved with gazetted and commissioned officers, and hauled them off to the Police Station. And then they called media to create ruckus. Fraud country, fraud police, fraud citizenry. We will all get our just desserts soon enough.

If Southern Army Commander has any circular objects between his legs, he will call the CM to complain about the behaviour of his police!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby habal » 01 Feb 2012 17:52

the Indian police forces have a congenital problem, they can never ever speak the truth. That much I will completely agree. btw Headlines Today (proxy for NDTV?) was going on about how the Army's 'moral standards' are coming down etc, didn't exactly get what they were gunning at.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby anjan » 02 Feb 2012 01:03

ASPuar wrote:The truth comes out. Disgruntled Police Constable misbehaved with gazetted and commissioned officers, and hauled them off to the Police Station. And then they called media to create ruckus. Fraud country, fraud police, fraud citizenry. We will all get our just desserts soon enough.

If Southern Army Commander has any circular objects between his legs, he will call the CM to complain about the behaviour of his police!
Nothing will happen. The same thing happened in Calcutta where they thrashed the officer where he was not at fault. And that battalion had just returned from Siachen. So much for respect.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 02 Feb 2012 01:28

erm, the thana that did it got its reward alright.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 02 Feb 2012 03:11

So they say. In Kolkata, it was later proved that cops ransacked their own thana, to gain media sympathy! But not reported in media too much, because it was yesterdays news. Pune police has misbehaved in this case, and reports indicate that Army intends to file counter cases against police personnel in the matter.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 02 Feb 2012 03:13

that's not correct saarji. and given that they were detaining a military officer illegally, serves them right.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 02 Feb 2012 03:48


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 02 Feb 2012 03:58

What is not correct, Saarji?

In Kolkata case, pandu logic was quickly demolished in the face of the facts, and the crowing police commissioner had to eat humble pie in the face of the facts. In fact, when queried, it was found that the cops were on the payroll of the hotel, whose bouncers had thrashed the major for demanding his meal as promised on his entry ticket to the hotel.

In the end, the jawans did thrash the cops in Kolkata, but only when they saw their poor coy cmdr had been beaten by the cops and was being further insulted by the idiot pandus. The Kolkata cops got the thrashing of their lives when the jawans saw what had been done to their CC. And well deservedly so.

Eastern Cmd JAG had filed cases against the buffoon rogue cops in Kolkata also, which were withdrawn when the fraud cases against the officers from the army were withdrawn for lack of evidence.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Rahul M » 02 Feb 2012 04:14

>> that cops ransacked their own thana

and that the army guys didn't. I am quite well acquainted with the incident and have wrote about it on BR as well.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 02 Feb 2012 04:20

Yes, yes, as I have said, there was some action on behalf of the army chaps also in Kolkata. All happened after the aforementioned, supra. I am also quite well acquainted with the facts of the case. Net net, the KP got its desserts. The enquiry thereafter, and the failure of KP to adduce any useful evidence tells its own story.


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