Indian Army: News & Discussion

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kunalverma
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kunalverma » 29 Jan 2012 06:51

trushant wrote:Some breaking news coming on Headlines Today right now

Sources saying "Compromise formula reached between the army chief and govt"

VKS to withdraw petition from SC while Govt accepts his DoB as 1951. He still steps down on 31st May 2012.

Gaurav Sawant says wait and watch

searching for the link.

over and out


Pure rubbish gentlemen. Nothing of the sort.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 29 Jan 2012 06:55

Interesting choice of words by RSN Singh

"moral bearings"

aka Moral Compass.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 29 Jan 2012 10:58

^^Gen Singh’s detractors are clutching the straw of ‘acceptance’ in their defence.

MS branch needs to be cleansed.

Will it prove to be the proverbial last straw that broke camel's back (....read scam laden UPA's back.)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Jan 2012 11:56

Indian Army: Whose Personal Fiefdom?

In all the TV debates post Army Chief petitioning Supreme Court, arguments have been on letters and certificates, missing critical issues. A former Cabinet Secretary periodically criticizes the Army Chief’s action but admits he doesn’t know all facts. Well, if you don’t know facts then you have no business to pass judgments.

Why no focus on the completely illegal and Machiavellian genesis of the conspiracy hatched in 2006 by someone who considers Army his personal fiefdom; decides who should be Army Chief in 2012 and conspires to remove ‘all hurdles’ including reducing General V.K. Singh’s tenure as Army Chief by one full year notwithstanding this amounts to virtual sack.

The complicity of some bureaucrats and the naivety-cum-complicity of the polity is crystal clear:

•the Military Secretary in 2006 gives credence to a wrongly filled UPSC application, illegally changes Date of Birth (DOB) of Gen V.K. Singh even in the Army List which he cannot without AG’s Branch confirmation (AG - Adjutant General - being sole authority for age in Army) more than three decades after UPSC accepted the date of birth as 10 May 1951;
•General V.K. Singh’s repeated requests, including the last request to Army Chief in 2008 to ‘reconcile his DOB with AG are deliberately ignored;
•Army Chief in 2008, citing numerous promotion cases held up with Ministry of Defence (MoD), demands General V.K. Singh renders certificate that a decision in organizational interest will be acceptable, assures him of reconciliation of age within Army HQ within a month and subsequently reneges on his promise;
•when Military Secretary (MS) writes to (Ministry of Defence) MoD to fix DOB of General V.K. Singh as 10 May 1950, Bimal Julka, Joint Secretary [JS (G)] disagrees with the line of thinking and directs MS to carry out an inquiry on DOB issue in conjunction with AG;
•instead of carrying out the inquiry, “Inquiry Not To Be Held” is endorsed by the Chief / MS;
•for appointment as Army Chief, MS sends dossier of Gen V.K. Singh to MoD deliberately without his matriculation certificate and MoD instead of asking for the matriculation certificate sends the dossier to the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet;
•MS Branch waits for Bimal Julka to move out as JS(G) and sends the same case to MoD without carrying out any inquiry concurrent to a Parliament question on the issue;
•this time bureaucrats in MoD agree with MS, ignoring earlier directions of Bimal Julka, Supreme Court ruling that matriculation certificate is sole authority for DOB and inputs by AG that the DOB of General V.K. Singh has been 10 May 1951 consistently with them;
•Raksha Mantri (RM) is misled (RM reportedly unofficially admits now as reported by media) to make a statement in Parliament that General V.K. Singh’s DOB is 10 May 1950 – reneging from which would invite political backlash and hence decision to keep reinforcing the lie, hoping General V.K. Singh can be moulded to suit succession by the ‘chosen one’;
•General V.K. Singh’s petition to RM based on ‘reconciliation of age not undertaken by MS’ is deliberately twisted by MoD bureaucrats as petition for ‘change of DOB’ and rejected;
•Joint Secretary signing the rejection letter gives one reason findings of inquiry ordered by MoD that was never held; statutory complaint is similarly rejected to reinforce RM’s Parliament statement despite MoD having received AG Branch inputs as well as MS confirming all promotion boards and decorations of General V.K. Singh are based on his DOB of 10 May 1951;
•Law Minister states “Rules are Rules” – that General V.K. Singh should have applied for change of DOB within three years of commissioning but fails to mention how this rule is applicable when general V.K. Singh never once has asked for change of DOB;
•Attorney General says why Army Chief did not represent between 1971 and 2006 – an absolutely weird observation considering the conspiracy was hatched only in 2006;
•political interlocutors (Track II diplomacy – is he Chief of foreign military?) led by Finance Minister continue rain lullabies and lollipops – why so if government is sure they are right;
•government declares Gen V.K. Singh “outstanding” simultaneous to vitriolic unofficial slander to break him psychologically, stooping lowest in a magazine cover captioning army Chief as “Self Before Service” – unprecedented ignominy on a serving Army Chief anywhere in the world;
•the clique behind the conspiracy including mafia involvement is exposed through [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TRlT4dIPehs]YouTube video[/youtube] every bit of which is explosive;
•RRM says the Army Chief petitioning Supreme Court is ‘unhealthy’ ignoring role played by bureaucrats under him and naiveté / involvement of the polity.
Has General V.K. Singh “dragged” government to court or has the latter “pushed” the General to court?

If we are in a dictatorship, then Gen V.K. Singh is very wrong in petitioning Supreme Court. However, if we are a democracy, his action is in best interest of democracy – standing up to wrong and dishonour while heading a 1.2 million Army, especially considering the manner in which the system is scarring the psyche of the soldiers.

Exposing ‘and punishing’ the conspirators and co-conspirators by the Supreme Court is now as important as giving a verdict on the DOB of General V.K. Singh. Generals Bikram Singh and KT Parnaik are both qualified to become Army Chief in their own turn but should we accept the Army as someone’s personal fiefdom in selecting an Army Chief six years in advance?

Role of the bureaucracy in this sordid affair must be acknowledged and corrective measures instituted though they will close ranks. Civil-Military relations apart, negative role of bureaucracy over the years stifling combat capabilities of the Security Sector is there for all to see, necessitating immediate corrective measures. Most importantly, the powers that be must understand that consequence of politicising and communalising the military will be horrendous for the country.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lt Gen Prakash C. Katoch, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, SC is a Special Forces veteran of the Indian army

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kunalverma » 29 Jan 2012 12:11

MORAL BEARINGS

Hope this is not true, for if it is, it would be such a shame...
A little Birdie tells me...
Trade off for projecting the CAG's case in such detail, the PMO is nominating the editor of the Tribune for the Rajya Sabha.
Wonder where that leaves the editor of yet another weekly? Padma B? Bharat Ratna?
Last edited by kunalverma on 29 Jan 2012 12:41, edited 1 time in total.

chaanakya
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 29 Jan 2012 12:34

News Update on CNN-IBN
MOD writes to AG Branch to update DOB to reflect MOD position that 1950 is correct DOB.

This is while matter is Sub Judice and slated for admission hearing on 3rd Feb.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 29 Jan 2012 12:53

^As i said before, this is not dying down, so easily.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govts-letter ... 258-3.html

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 29 Jan 2012 13:23

Hypothetical scenario

What happens if...

UPA loses election in 2014.
COAS is as per UPA's decided Line of Succession.
SC give verdict in late 2013/14 that 1951 was correct.
Incumbent Govt (non UPA) decides to ask COAS to demit office as it has no faith, having been selected by a dubious process though fully qualified otherwise. He does not enjoy the confidence of the Govt of the Day.

VKS resigns at the instance of Govt due to loss of confidence.
If SC says 1950 is correct in 2013/14
Still Non UPA Govt Says they have no confidence in COAS and asks him to step down.

Non UPA Govt says line of succession is inviolate and fixes successors up to 2020. and we get UPA-III in 2019. Would UPA abide by that line of succession fixed by non UPA Govt and treat it as inviolate?

UPA Comes back in 2014
SC decides 1951 is correct in 2013/14 then what?? AKA is burned forever or will he be resurrected like one Antulay.

SC decides to hold fast track hearings and delivers 1951 as correct date before retirement of VKS and allows him to continue. Would UPA ask him to step down for loss of confidence in him or to maintain line of Mughalia succession? AKA is burned in any case.


SC decides 1950 as correct date and authorises MS branch as record keeper>

I see in any scenario the biggest looser is the Army. Sad. Even VK Menon would not have done so much damage to the institution as AKA has done.

There are other scenario that I may have missed.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 29 Jan 2012 13:48

^^^I think MOD has written to AG's Branch asking for explanation as to how 1951 was recorded as DOB of General VKS.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Jan 2012 13:48

chaanakya wrote:Hypothetical scenario

I see in any scenario the biggest looser is the Army. Sad. Even VK Menon would not have done so much damage to the institution as AKA has done.


It's not so much antony as the IAS lobby which has willfully mis interpreted the " supremacy of civilian control " fears to build their own kingdom and manipulate the gullible ministers.

These blighters must be squashed like the bugs that they are.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 29 Jan 2012 14:00

Another report. And the govt, IMO, is chopping the branch on which it is sitting in this case.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/army- ... eststories

In its own admission, the govt has been syaing, it can not change the DoB after two years. Now this.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 29 Jan 2012 14:35

The AG’s branch, which is the official recordkeeper in the service, has maintained Gen. Singh’s date of birth as May 10, 1951, although the Military Secretary’s branch records it as May 10, 1950.

The move appears to be to reconcile the two dates in Army records and is an indication of the tough stance of the government against Gen. Singh, who has moved the Supreme Court on his age issue.


In the backdrop of yesterday's reports of compromise, it would be nice if such deception and delay tactics are used against the enemies of the state. Or in other thoughts has VKS become one.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 842434.ece

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 29 Jan 2012 14:42

A blog post by a retired IAF officer, as to why VKS resigning before going to court does not make sense.
http://iesmorg.blogspot.com/2012/01/vie ... anian.html

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Yagnasri » 29 Jan 2012 15:16

We are expecting too much if we want " moral' something from Babus. AKA is another file pusher put up as he has not reason or possibility of become a threat to Amul Baba and Dove Babe ( if she comes into politics after expected UP hamarring) He and MMS ( another babu) discussed this matter and " decided" the course of action. ha ha ha. AKA is sad about the General Singh going to SC. Why? He does not know some thing rotten happening. He as a head of administration set up looking after Army and expected head of the largest group of fighting men simply accept what ever dished out to him by babus like AKA. Imagine if there is some one than General Singh in similar situation and takes a " DIFFORENT" than going to Supreme Court? In such case people like AKA will not be sad. They will be hanged to nearest lamp post or running for their life to Pakiland.*************
Last edited by ramana on 29 Jan 2012 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited. ramana

chaanakya
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 29 Jan 2012 18:32

chetak wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Hypothetical scenario

I see in any scenario the biggest looser is the Army. Sad. Even VK Menon would not have done so much damage to the institution as AKA has done.


It's not so much antony as the IAS lobby which has willfully mis interpreted the " supremacy of civilian control " fears to build their own kingdom and manipulate the gullible ministers.

These blighters must be squashed like the bugs that they are.

I see that MS and AG branch are at fault. I see that two Army Chief deciding to fix line of succession. And Predecessor Chief not doing enough to reconcile.
At least one IAS officer is on record to ask inquiry from MS, which Army never did. When one's own house is not in order, outside people tend to exploit. And Sukhna and Adarsh did not happen outside of Arme forces.

AKA did not rise above the occasion. He was also protecting the line of succession. Antony should have taken statutory complaint more seriously .

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 29 Jan 2012 18:44

nelson wrote:Another report. And the govt, IMO, is chopping the branch on which it is sitting in this case.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/army- ... eststories

In its own admission, the govt has been saying, it can not change the DoB after two years. Now this.

AG Branch already asked MS branch to reconcile its record with theirs long back. Now MOD asking this from AG would only weaken their case esp. when no inquiry happened earlier.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 29 Jan 2012 22:52

eklavya wrote:
Katare wrote:Unfaire comments on AK and Anil Chowdhry....

More capital budget, both absolute and % of total, has been spent by AK than any DM in the last decade. So these charges of inactions has been overdone at BRF/media, although a case for more aggressive procurement can be made but that will come at risk of some yahoo pulling another scandal and shutting down entire procurement process.

Showing off military might on republic day by parading missiles, tanks and guns is a Russian led eastern block culture thing that was started to scare off weatern world. It is still practised to extream degree by nut cases like Kim jong il/un of NoKO. There is a good case for slowly mooving away from naked military might show-off to more of a democratic celebration, veterans parade, limited domestic MIC display type formate that dipicts image of a confidant nation.

Although I think armed forces might loose a good and rare opportunity to show off and educate aam janta about its capabilities but that can be done on a separate armed forces day.


The Indian armed forces are an integral part of the consciousness of the modern Indian republic. There is nothing undemocratic about a military parade. No need for angst here.

The Republic Day parade is a very old Indian tradition, and comparisons with North Korea are unwarranted, unacceptable and utterly odious.


Eklvya, Just like your name your focus is very sharp but you are missing the larger point that my post refers too. One must make arguments with some degree of fairness for informed discussion. Exaggeration and ruthlessness only vitiates environment and hides the weakness of the argument.
As a loyal jingo, I am all for armed forces getting their due and having major role in all national celebrations and more. But that doesn't stop me from understanding and seeing Anil Chowdhry's point or where he is going with it and calling him anti-armed forces doesn't make me any more pro-armed forces. Calling anyone who won't agree with BRF POV a traitor, ant-something, lifafa and dork has become a contagious sickness these days. It's convenient way of ignoring (not addressing) the counter POV by calling them names unworthy of discussion.

Same thing happens with AK, who is an inefficient, lathergic and uninspiring DM but he is also most honest, sobre and consistent of DMs. His performance falls well short of Jingo standards but he lives and works in a real and vicious political world where most jingos won't even go to take a crap even in an emergency.

My post was about 'not' degrading the quality of good arguments by exaggeration, unfair name callings and unneccessory sarcasm. It was not to support anyone's point. We all are jingos here lets not fight the war of "more pious vs pious" rakshaks.

May be I shouldn't have brought in NoKO on republic day parade, point conceded.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 29 Jan 2012 22:57

Sanku wrote:
Katare wrote:Showing off military might on republic day by parading missiles, tanks and guns is a Russian led eastern block culture thing .


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Actually French. You might want to look up the basics.

Unless of course Massa == west.

--------------------

Also fairly odd post to make in a forum which believes that Indian military has always been given the short end of the stick and needs more exposure and not less.

-------------------

Also no need to whitewash the incredible levels of incompetence by all members of UPA, with AK Antony now making it clear that he is after all, cut from the UPA cloth.

Did he also want to teach "These fauji's a lesson", like his counterpart in the Science and Tech Ministry?


France, Russia, Chandragupta maurya, NoKO ---you can pick your "basics" or "in-principal basics" as you please.

Rest of your post is, what did you wrote....oh yeah ---> "childish and not worth a response". :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (now, I have more :lol: than you do in your post)

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 29 Jan 2012 23:28

del
Last edited by Surya on 30 Jan 2012 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby negi » 29 Jan 2012 23:29

This and
Katare wrote:Eklvya, Just like your name your focus is very sharp but you are missing the larger point that my post refers too. One must make arguments with some degree of fairness for informed discussion. Exaggeration and ruthlessness only vitiates environment and hides the weakness of the argument.

Then this
Calling anyone who won't agree with BRF POV a traitor, ant-something, lifafa and dork has become a contagious sickness these days. It's convenient way of ignoring (not addressing) the counter POV by calling them names unworthy of discussion.

Massive LoL material. :rotfl:

Pray tell us where was traitor or lifafa mentioned in last couple of pages ? :roll:


May be I shouldn't have brought in NoKO on republic day parade, point conceded.

You did not even have a point to begin with ; your argument relied on one single assertion of yours that our Republic day parade is somehow inspired from Soviet Roos. Which btw is simply twisting of facts. If all the logic at play here is that anything foreign in origin needs to be done away with then the entire parliamentary system needs a revamp which in many ways draws from the British parliamentary system, our armed forces too use the same system of ranks as the British, similar call signs and even the etiquette. In fact there is more commonanlity with the British than with Ru.

What are the arguments presented by AK Chowdhary sahab in the article ? He just says abit less of khaki would be a nice to have on a republic day . If it is the cost on the exchequer that is a cause of takleef then how will merely removing the Military contingent help we might as well do away with the entire fcking event lot of khota sikkas will be saved.

--culled the non secular BS

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sanku » 30 Jan 2012 00:45

Katare wrote:
Sanku wrote:"Katare">>
Showing off military might on republic day by parading missiles, tanks and guns is a Russian led eastern block culture thing .

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Actually French. You might want to look up the basics.


France, Russia, Chandragupta maurya, NoKO ---you can pick your "basics" or "in-principal basics" as you please.

Rest of your post is, what did you wrote....oh yeah ---> "childish and not worth a response". :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (now, I have more :lol: than you do in your post)


I am glad that you can laugh at your own ignorance.

Next step is to be informed before opening your mouth.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sanku » 30 Jan 2012 00:50

negi wrote:What are the arguments presented by AK Chowdhary sahab in the article ?


He has a argument, he is uncomfortable with prominence given to military on a important occasion. He would like all military abilities hidden away, to be used like one uses a attack dog (as Philip said) in dire situations, but deeply uncomfortable with all that muscles on display. So gauche you see. Much more sophisticated to make a deal, perhaps send over a daughter to Akbar's harem to sort things out and such like you know.

He is of the "chanikan" is all we need school, so fond of current crop of GoI leadership.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2012 03:14

Hindu reports:

MoD directs AG branch to correct DOB to match MS branch

I guess now a person's date of birth can be dictated by sarkar.
No need for birth certificate etc. and what about the matter being subjudice and all that?

Doesn't this action vitiate executive-judiciary relations while crwoing about civil military relations?

Is the executive the higher authority? Is India back under the Raj?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 30 Jan 2012 03:39

What if the AG's branch refuses or delays,citing anomalies,esp. when the SC is going to examine the whole lot of docs.?

This makes a complete mockery of the UID exercise too,as by the same yardstick, any manipulation can now be done to any data.Years ago in the early '80s,after winning his election to his second term,Lankan president JR Jayawardene boasted openly that all he could not then do was "turn a man into a woman".Our babus and their political masters have now even surpassed JRJ!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 30 Jan 2012 04:45

Perhaps AG might ask Govt to produce birth certificate and then say that MOD should have applied for correction within two years of commissioning.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 30 Jan 2012 04:46

Negi,
My first post on this topic was in response to some one calling anil Chowdhary "anti-armed forces" because he said something. Another statement that I thought was highly exaggerated went like this "weaponn procurement at stand still" for 3 years under AK.

Is Republic day parade particpation good for armed forces? Do they enjoy and value marching and hauling people and hardware to the Rajpath and prepare for months to be spotless for a day? I always thought it's a burden on armed forces who would rather prefer to celebrate it on their own barracks, cities or homes. If armed forces want it and somehow it benefits them than more power to them. Someone can write an article asking for "more Khaki" at republic day and I hope no one would call him/her an anti-civilian.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 30 Jan 2012 04:49

Sanku wrote:
Katare wrote:"Katare">>
Showing off military might on republic day by parading missiles, tanks and guns is a Russian led eastern block culture thing .

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Actually French. You might want to look up the basics.

France, Russia, Chandragupta maurya, NoKO ---you can pick your "basics" or "in-principal basics" as you please.

Rest of your post is, what did you wrote....oh yeah ---> "childish and not worth a response". :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (now, I have more :lol: than you do in your post)


I am glad that you can laugh at your own ignorance.

Next step is to be informed before opening your mouth.


Ignorance is bliss..... :lol:

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby krisna » 30 Jan 2012 07:59

Surya wrote:all fine but what do you call people who really are lifafa or something unflattering ?? :)

http://indrus.in/articles/2012/01/27/ta ... 14642.html

here is another genius ex IT guy (talent surely flourishes there)

headline screams Tablet wars - India's Adam takes a bite of Apple's ipad :mrgreen:


wrong thread for the above post.
must go under the burkha :((

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Surya » 30 Jan 2012 08:24

I know I know

but i wanted to give an example not related to anything here.

since authors of every link here are supposed to be virtuous with just "a diff point of view".

If mods want I will delete it

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2012 09:37

Surya, No. You please delete. More is expected of you.
ramana

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2012 10:02

DNA reports:

Army Chief Age row:Govt desperation

Saikat Dutta

Just a week before army chief General VK Singh’s writ petition comes up in the Supreme Court (SC), the ministry of defence has shot off a letter to the army headquarters in a bid to change the existing records in its favour.

An undated letter received by the army headquarters on January 23, 2012, has asked the adjutant general (AG), the official record-keeper of the Indian Army, to ‘change’ its records and ensure that Gen Singh’s year of birth is recorded as May 10, 1950. The letter, written by KL Nandwani, deputy secretary in the defence ministry, has been issued to the AG, the military secretary’s branch, and the comptroller of defence accounts (officers) in Pune.

The letter, a copy of which is with DNA, directs the army headquarters to maintain ‘strict compliance’ with this order and asks that ‘a compliance report be sent to the ministry at the earliest’. Clearly, the defence ministry hopes that effecting these changes now will help bolster its case in the SC.

An earlier joint secretary in the defence ministry, Bimal Julka, had also sought an inquiry into the matter by the AG’s branch into the army chief’s age issue. However, no such inquiry was carried out. But the inquiry was cited as the reason by the defence ministry to reject Gen Singh’s subsequent complaints to correct his year of birth.

The latest letter from the defence ministry insists that the inquiry was conducted by the military secretary’s branch, a department that is not the official record-keeper of the army’s personnel records.
Lt Gen Awadesh Prakash was the MS at that time.

Lt Gen Awadesh Prakash was subsequently found guilty by an army court of inquiry (CoI) for the Sukhna land scam.

It is interesting to note that the latest letter depends on the decisions taken by Lt Gen Prakash and then army chief Gen Deepak Kapoor, who was involved in several controversies during his tenure. Gen Kapoor’s name cropped up during the Adarsh scam investigations since he owned an apartment there after convincing the state government that he was a ‘domicile’ of Maharashtra. He currently lives in Gurgaon, Haryana. Both the generals have been upset with Gen Singh initiating action in these cases.

Sources in the defence ministry told DNA that the letter was deliberately kept undated to avoid any embarrassment in light of Gen Singh’s pending writ petition. The letter was received on January 23, 2012, and also records decisions taken by the defence ministry as late as December 30, 2011.

The letter further opens the defence ministry to the charge that a group of vested interests are forcing a change on Gen Singh. If the army chief is forced to retire this year, Lt Gen Bikram Singh will become his successor. Currently Lt Gen Bikram Singh has been mentioned in an FIR for an alleged ‘fake encounter’ in Jammu & Kashmir and his role during a UN peacekeeping mission in Congo has raised several eyebrows. However, the defence ministry is determined to ensure he takes over as army chief.

The defence ministry, in its latest order, continues to ignore the matriculation certificate issued by the Rajasthan state government’s board that records Gen Singh’s year of birth as 1951. It also ignores the official records of his father’s military service that also records the same year.

The letter is also a rejection of the records maintained by the Indian Army’s official record keeper - the AG’s Branch - and gives validity to a mistake committed a little over 40 years ago when Gen Singh was filling in his application form.


Looks like the rot is very deep.Same as before 1962 debacle. MoD is doing its best to destroy morale and aiding external enemies.

Sending a GO order on an undated letter. The guy should be dismissed for that.

Sanku
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sanku » 30 Jan 2012 11:02

Katare wrote:
Ignorance is bliss..... :lol:


To others its not.

ASPuar
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ASPuar » 30 Jan 2012 12:09

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/article2808807.ece
The General and the labyrinth


The controversy over the age of General V.K. Singh, the subject of an already heated and often unseemly public debate, is now threatening to get out of hand. With the Army Chief left with no resort but to challenge the Defence Ministry in the Supreme Court in order to “protect his integrity and honour,” the issue has the makings of an unseemly civilian-military confrontation that could easily have been avoided had plain common sense prevailed over bureaucratic thick-headedness.

There are a slew of documents — including a birth certificate and a school-leaving certificate — that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that General Singh, whose father as well as grandfather were Army officers, was born on May 10, 1951. This is the date of birth recorded in the office of the Adjutant General, the Army's official record-keeper. The controversy has arisen because the Military Secretary — another wing of Army Headquarters that maintains personal records relating to postings, transfers, and promotions — records him as having been born on May 10, 1950. General Singh has been at pains to explain that the latter date, gleaned from an application form for entrance to the National Defence Academy when he was only 14 years old, was a mistake committed by a teacher of his. He has also revealed that the discrepancy was raised with two predecessor Army Chiefs — but, strangely and for reasons the Defence Ministry has not yet disclosed, to no avail.

A brave and highly decorated officer, General Singh is recognised as a brilliant strategist and a reform-minded leader who is tough on corruption, as reflected in the hard line he adopted against erring officers in the Adarsh Cooperative Housing Society scam.

The mudslinging and insinuations intended to portray him as someone fiddling with his birth date to hang on to the power and privileges of high office must be rejected with contempt. One major reason why his year of birth has become such a hot potato is that the date of his retirement will have a bearing on who will succeed him as Army Chief. By refusing to accede to General Singh's request to correct the official record on the basis of documented fact, the Defence Ministry has shown astonishing short-sightedness, and in the process tread on a proud soldier's sense of honour. Even now, rather than fight for a bad cause in the highest court in the land, a disputation that could have a bearing on the Army's morale, the government should backtrack and come up with a constructive solution. By conceding General Singh's just case and treating him with the respect and honour that are his due, it should be able to clear the decks for a smooth succession to the post he occupies.


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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 30 Jan 2012 16:05

Col (retd) Karan Kharab tearing to shreds, the canards being spread by the MoD regarding so-called 'acceptance' of May 50 as DoB by VKS prior to his promotion.

http://indiamydreamland.blogspot.com/20 ... onour.html

He also questions the temerity and impudence of Jt Secy (G/A) on his communication to the then Chief about VKS, as i lamented before on this forum. Must read, i would say

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby pragnya » 30 Jan 2012 18:40

ramana wrote:I guess now a person's date of birth can be dictated by sarkar.


ramanaji,

i take your word. thanks for showing me the way. :wink:

the point is i needed my son's birth certificate. can i approach for my wedding certificate too??

kunalverma
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby kunalverma » 30 Jan 2012 19:57

Believe Adm Vishnu Bhagwat is on NDTV tonight at 10 pm. Ajai Shukla is also there, along with Indu Liberhan, Lt Gen Shankar Prasad and maybe Raj Chengappa.

ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2012 20:49

Looks like Hindu is returning to its traditional role of Nationalist paper. Good riddance to NRam days.

Yogi_G
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Yogi_G » 30 Jan 2012 21:28

ramana wrote:Looks like Hindu is returning to its traditional role of Nationalist paper. Good riddance to NRam days.


Ramana ji, your thoughts behind why you feel so?

ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Jan 2012 21:49

Among newspapers with an all India presence, the Hindu is taking a stance in support of the right conduct. Everyother paper is hedging and worse supporting the wrong.

Yayavar
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Yayavar » 30 Jan 2012 21:55

The babus/govt is so blatantly on the wrong that even Outlook (Saikat Dutta) and Hindu have faulted the govt.!!

Ramanaji: one swallow does not a summer make. Need to see if Hindu is more consistent in Nationalistic views going forward.


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