Indian Army: News & Discussion

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Austin
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 13 Feb 2012 14:13

Why should the government or army plan a succession when its clearly and constitutionally government prerogative to choose who it wants to be the next chief among the 3-4 contender for the top post.

Does the succession plan come with hard gurantees that the person annointed will be chosen no matter what ? If the idea is to base it on seniority then in the past GOI has not followed those foot step and in future it may choose not to do it either.

What if the chosen successor say the next chief cannot make it for medical reason or other including death , do they also plan for such eventuality ?

What if the succession is already planned in advance by the present chief/MOD but the next government may not be the present one and may not oblige on choosing the planned successor ?

And if VKS resigns today and thwarts the game plan of GOI to appoint Bikram as the next chief and some one who is senior gets appointed , does that mean VKS has succeeded in defeating the govt agenda ?

What if the GOI still decides to appoint Bikram over ruling Seniority as was done in past and as is govt prerogative ?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby suryag » 13 Feb 2012 14:15

GEn Katoch looks so dapper and incisive in his talk

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 14:18

Philip wrote:Nelson ,can we have further elaboration on this point please?

The crux is the then Chiefs had no consideration to play truant with DoB of VKS except to satisfy or please the political master, read MMS. So the MoD has always been in the loop.


Does it also implicate AKA too?
Please read Kunal Verma's post above in its entirety. I quote from that

kunalverma wrote:....In the overall scheme of things initiated in 2006 (with political backing, as underlined by General Katoch yesterday) it was imperative that VKS becomes the COAS....


The COAS may be the most powerful person donning the olive green. But in India, he does not get to take things in his own hands to designate someone as a successor, six years down the line. Yet it was attempted and has been nearly pulled off. This could not have been done without the political backing. The key persons at that time (circa May 2006) were MMS, Pranab the then Defence Minister, Gen retd J J Singh, the Military Secretary Lt Gen retd Richard Khare and the Judge Advocate General Maj Gen Nilendra Kumar. The consideration for Gen retd J J Singh to do what he did was a governorship, which he got.

Coming to 2008, three key persons have changed A K Antony as Defence Minister, Gen retd Deepak Kapoor and the Military Secretary then Lt Gen (now almost Mr) Awadesh Prakash. A K Antony chose to be silent saint and acquiesced with his boss. The consideration for which Gen retd Deepak Kapoor did what he did was Vice-Chairmanship of NDMA which he almost got but for his flat in Adarsh Housing Society, Colaba.

Yes, in the manner that, AKA knew something is wrong and did not care to do any thing to rectify the wrong citing pressure from above.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Philip » 13 Feb 2012 14:22

Austin,exactly what I asked,and he (Gen VKS can still find/has enough time to find some reason to haul up Gen. Bik, for let's say....insubordination,as allegedly plotted against him bt Gen.DK,and blot his copybook sufficiently for the GOI to have to overlook him?!

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 14:26

You can understand it in this manner. For a corps commander, the appraisal is initiated by the army commander and is over at the COAS level. An army commander's appraisal is initiated by the chief and is reviewed by the govt. So even if VKS, wants to fix BS he will not make an attempt.

IMO, VKS really doesn't care if BS is to be fixed or not.

His prayer to SC was simple, recognise his DoB in official records as 1951 and provide all attendant benefits. In the same breathe he says, having granted this relief, the govt is free to send him home on any day it chooses including 31 May 2012.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 13 Feb 2012 14:49

Philip wrote:Austin,exactly what I asked,and he (Gen VKS can still find/has enough time to find some reason to haul up Gen. Bik, for let's say....insubordination,as allegedly plotted against him bt Gen.DK,and blot his copybook sufficiently for the GOI to have to overlook him?!


Fixing would work only if GOI has zero say in such matter and it will the Army who will be in a position to forward names and the govt has to accept it ....then the top brass can fix the annointed one or the next after annointed one incase if the former does not make it and plan a succession sort off.

In our case it is GOI prerogative to choose who it wishes to serve at its pleasure ( or kick out at its displeasure ) , so when you have the option to choose why fix ? And in past govt has chosen chief who were not necessarily senior and could very well do so in future.

I mean VKS can still resign today and Govt can still choose Bikram over ruling seniority if he is the blued eyed boy and they are well within its right , so why fix ?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 14:55

VKS resignation != Govt sacking him at its pleasure/ displeasure.

Let the govt of the day try it, sack Army chief without sufficient cause, then we will see.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sunnydee » 13 Feb 2012 14:56

Austin most of sounds like a conspiracy theory -reminds of the infamous 9/11 documentary...first the reason given for this line of the succession was that it was the Sikh lobby at AHQat work..then it changed to the prime ministers wife being the reason behind wanting to make Bikram Singh the chief..etc etc...until someone does not produce evidence in public most people would still think of i as a conspiracy theory

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sunnydee » 13 Feb 2012 15:02

nelson wrote:VKS resignation != Govt sacking him at its pleasure/ displeasure.

Let the govt of the day try it, sack Army chief without sufficient cause, then we will see.


Well technically and legally you can sack an officer at the president pleasure without a reason (this is just an academic discussion)...for eg: if you suspect an officer of being corrupt or of spying but dont have enough evidence you can use this option

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:02

^^^Wait... that will come too. As Kunal Verma says VKS at this moment may be held back because of the restrictions of the service conditions he is subordinate to. If a PIL can get the former CJI to the dock, then the possibilities for an ordinary citizen are infinite.
Last edited by nelson on 13 Feb 2012 15:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sunnydee » 13 Feb 2012 15:05

nelson wrote:Wait... that will come too. As Kunal Verma says VKS at this moment may be held back because of the restrictions of the service conditions he is subordinate to. If a PIL can get the former CJI to the dock, then the possibilities for an ordinary citizen are infinite.


So why doesnt he resign now and file a case esp as there is still media coverage on this issue ?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Badar » 13 Feb 2012 15:08

nelson wrote:Let the govt of the day try it, sack Army chief without sufficient cause, then we will see.

I am curious... what would happen? Let's say the GoI announces "COAS General Sher Singh has been relieved of command because he no longer enjoys the confidence of the government".

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:10

I believe that VKS is not playing to the galleries to take a decision just because media coverage is greater at the moment. He has faced an unexpected set back in the court, he must take his time to take the next step in this respect. Truth shall prevail.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:11

Badar wrote:
nelson wrote:Let the govt of the day try it, sack Army chief without sufficient cause, then we will see.

I am curious... what would happen? Let's say the GoI announces "COAS General Sher Singh has been relieved of command because he no longer enjoys the confidence of the government".


You mean the "confidence of the President"?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby sunnydee » 13 Feb 2012 15:13

Nelson, just for arguments sake, wouldnt media coverage if properly used with enough evidence on show be a force multiplier ?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:27

sunnydee wrote:Nelson, just for arguments sake, wouldnt media coverage if properly used with enough evidence on show be a force multiplier ?


It is not a question of using media coverage. As i have said before, many leading reporters from national media-houses know the complicity of JJ, DK and their respective staff. But there has not been a semblance of an effort to make a report from that angle. No one has dared to venture an interview with JJ or DK or Mr Awadesh Prakash. Not because there is no story there. Certainly because they do not want to ruffle the feathers of the executive.

As long as VKS dons the uniform he had but one way of taking evidence to the streets, without risking charges of treason. That was to get the file notings summoned by the SC for their perusal. He failed in that. Now, he has the option to resign/ retire and then dig the details out, through the tools available to a citizen. Let us see if he is interested.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sri » 13 Feb 2012 15:32

I have been watching and reading with bewilderment on this issue. In my opinion our brave general was not brave enough in front of court. He just chickened out on initial lashing itself and withdrew his petition. I have seen very many court cases . Judges do bully both the sides from time to time, generally forcing them to negotiate out of court and specially in cases where the Judge Sahib just doesn't want to produce a judgement. I just fail to see as to why General's lawyers didn't ask for another date instead of deciding during the lunch time to withdraw the petition?

Supreme court has to be extra extra careful before giving out any judgement. General had a rock solid case. Lets just assume that if general had decided to fight till end, and lost, then what will the judgement read like? that even though all your certificates from various competent authorities say that you were born in 2000, but since you signed a letter saying that it was actually 1999 that shall be your date.... nah ... it will need a lot of thinking on judges part... In essence even if judgement doesn't consider General's letters and only focuses on UPSC data, then too it will work against it's own judgement of 1983, where it said Class 10 certificate trumps all other documents and records, even the birth certificate.... period. Further one's DoB is a matter of record, hence there can be no 2 ways about it. Many SC judgement have come to state that records cannot be subject to subjective interpretations.

The learned judges, bullied the general's inexperienced lawyers. Anyone else, like of Jethmalani / Jaitly / Chidu and many others would have simply challenged the bench to produce a judgement. Things will be very different then.. General didn't get the best legal team, thats all.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:37

^ That shows the naivete of the General and his legal team. But to be fair to the team, the SC's position was unexpected and preordained, to say the least.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajrang » 13 Feb 2012 15:39

rohitvats wrote:OK. Let me put this in as simple words as possible. VKS DOB issue is raised by MS and he is asked to accept 1950 as DOB. Now, please ask yourself this - (1) What was the need of MS Branch to ask VKS to accept 1950 as DOB when all the previous promotions were on the basis of 1951? (2) Why did the MS Branch not consult the AG's Branch to assess the correct DOB issue and arrive at a solution? On what basis did MS Branch take this unilateral action and to what end?

The answers to above questions is the key behind the conspiracy about succession plan and the need to make VKS accept 1950 as DOB.


Why didn't VKS as a honest soldier simply reject accepting a wrong DOB?

Even in the army a superior cannot order a junior to carry out morally wrong actions - such as ordering someone to rape, or torture and similarly to accept a DOB that was incorrect. So VKS was morally bound to reject accepting a wrong DOB. His acceptance of a wrong DOB indicates poor judgment. Good judgment is a pre-requisite for being the head of the army.

Second having accepted on three occasions in writing that his DOB was 1950, he is going back on his word. That is not honest (at least not according to the dictionary).
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Feb 2012 15:40

Or, is it a case where the VKS did not want to drag the "concpiracy" part of succession in the Court of Law and chose to withdraw in the interest of the Army's image? Any detailed judgement (against VKS) could not have been complete without commenting in detail and upholding the sanctity of the acceptance letters....any debate on those letters would have led to all the skeletons coming out of the closet.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Badar » 13 Feb 2012 15:41

nelson wrote:
Badar wrote:I am curious... what would happen? Let's say the GoI announces "COAS General Sher Singh has been relieved of command because he no longer enjoys the confidence of the government".

You mean the "confidence of the President"?

OK. Confidence of the president then.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:42

Sri wrote:I have been watching and reading with bewilderment on this issue. In my opinion our brave general was not brave enough in front of court. He just chickened out on initial lashing itself and withdrew his petition. I have seen very many court cases .
I

This is one drawback of depending solely on vakalat. Such cases where personal honour and integrity are in question, require the presence of the client/ victim in the courtroom.

But that would have raised another brouhaha in this country, where all the ills facing the Army is because the General chose to seek justice from the court.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:46

rohitvats wrote:Or, is it a case where the VKS did not want to drag the "concpiracy" part of succession in the Court of Law and chose to withdraw in the interest of the Army's image? Any detailed judgement (against VKS) could not have been complete without commenting in detail and upholding the sanctity of the acceptance letters....any debate on those letters would have led to all the skeletons coming out of the closet.


@rohit
From the beginning I have been saying that VKS would stand little chance in court, if he is not able to bring out the conspiracy. If he did hope for justice, without exposing the conspiracy, he was all the more naive then.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Feb 2012 15:49

rajrang wrote: Why didn't VKS as a honest soldier simply reject accepting a wrong DOB?

Even in the army a superior cannot order a junior to carry out morally wrong actions - such as ordering someone to rape, or torture and similarly to accept a DOB that was incorrect. So VKS was morally bound to reject accepting a wrong DOB. His acceptance of a wrong DOB indicates poor judgment. Good judgment is a pre-requisite for being the head of the army.

Second having accepted on three occasions in writing that his DOB was 1950, he is going back on his word. That is not honest (at least not according to the dictionary).


It is very easy to pass judgement on matters as critical as career of an army officer by sitting on the sideline. Had he put up the fight then, he would have been nothing but a footnote in the history and none would have been wiser about the shenanighans in MOD and IA top leaderships. Another thing - what you also conviniently forget is that he raised his concern within the bounds of service rules and they are for everyone to see. Plus, he had "word" from his Chief who said he would rectify the matter.

And when nothing happened, he put his entire career and reputation on line by going to the court - something that would take immense about of courage and conviction. The fact that courts ruled otherwise does not take away from his honesty and integrity.

So, please don't belabor the point about honesty and integrity. A less honest person would have bargained his "angst" for a governorship or ambassador ship.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Feb 2012 15:52

nelson wrote:<SNIP>@rohit:From the beginning I have been saying that VKS would stand little chance in court, if he is not able to bring out the conspiracy. If he did hope for justice, without exposing the conspiracy, he was all the more naive then.


True. And that is what my feeling had been from word go.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 15:53

Badar wrote:
Badar wrote:I am curious... what would happen? Let's say the GoI announces "COAS General Sher Singh has been relieved of command because he no longer enjoys the confidence of the government".


OK. Confidence of the president then.


The govt is free to invoke article 310 of the constitution, if it is politically viable. What I am not certain is the capability of the govt of the day to do that.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajrang » 13 Feb 2012 15:55

rohitvats wrote:A less honest person would have bargained his "angst" for a governorship or ambassador ship.


Good point - but then was it bad judgment once again on the part of VKS?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rajrang » 13 Feb 2012 15:59

shiv wrote:The Supreme Court cannot actually reach a judgement on the possibility of a promotion conspiracy when the issue on hand is fixing the general's date of birth. No matter how coincidental that alleged promotion scam may be, it is coincidental to the issue. There general has, for whatever reason, accepted two different dates of birth. In the army an order from a superior is an order from a superior. It is well known that hundreds of men have lost lives accepting orders from a superior in the army. In this case he order from a superior led to a mixed blessing. VK Singh was promoted and later went on to become COAS, but he lost a year of service as a result. It is plausible that he was forced into making a choice by a biased superior, who was later demonstrated to be iffy. But that choice did not actually result in any great personal loss for him. He gained the highest honor an army man can gain. At least that is what it looks like to a lay outsider. What honor was he defending? If he was upset at the loss of prestige that some good officers may have endured by these events, the fact still remains that he accepted the highest honor.

He may well have done the country a great favor by allowing the shit to hit the fan and for that I am grateful, but I still haven't understood what the supreme court did wrong. Ultimately his greatest honor may be that he sacrificed himself using a straw man date of birth issue to bring to the nation's consciousness the fact that promotions scams could occur.



Shivji - good summary and thanks to both you and Badarji for balanced and well thought out viewpoints.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sri » 13 Feb 2012 16:05

nelson wrote:^ That shows the naivete of the General and his legal team. But to be fair to the team, the SC's position was unexpected and preordained, to say the least.


Nelson Ji, Judges do bullying all the time. It is also a way to test your convictions. The SC position is not clear as it didn't produce any judgement. What happens cross examination, is not to be taken as the position. General tactics of the lawyer is to start squealing or what we call a 'broken record technique'. Just keep praying your stance again and again and do not get lead by with the judge or the opposition. Use overt chaaploosi, words like 'my lord' and 'your grace' etc etc....

If still pushed to corner ask for time to discuss and revert. Bench says ' Well! you wrote the letters... how can you go back on your promise...?" you say "My Lord I was under tremendous pressure and i was assured the records will be corrected in future. Now I am here with my 38 years long reputation at stake." Bench Says " There is no honor and dignity in going back on your own written commitments." you say " My Lord I was under tremendous pressure and i was assured the records will be corrected in future. Now I am here with my 38 years long reputation at stake." Bench says "You consider your position otherwise I have no hesitation is producing a judgement." you say "Of course My Lordship! I am here for exactly that and I am sure if you consider case # this and this and this and subsequent judgments here and here and here you will see that I am a victim of circumstances and also My Lord I was under tremendous pressure and i was assured the records will be corrected in future. Now I am here with my 38 years long reputation at stake."

Surely, Bench would have gone back to Government asking tougher questions... At the least ask for another date...

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby nelson » 13 Feb 2012 16:09

^ Would VKS's presence in the court have made any difference.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sri » 13 Feb 2012 16:13

nelson wrote:^ Would VKS's presence in the court have made any difference.


Nope it's good that he didn't go... If was there Judges may feel the need establish the supremacy, remember you have to always ensure Judge Sahib's ego is intact ... if he had retired and then sued... then of course his presence will be good.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby merlin » 13 Feb 2012 16:14

shiv wrote:I don't know why people are getting their chaddis so twisted up.


Oh don't let anyone here stop your pisko jihad shiv.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 13 Feb 2012 16:36

merlin wrote:
shiv wrote:I don't know why people are getting their chaddis so twisted up.


Oh don't let anyone here stop your pisko jihad shiv.


Saar - have you noticed a break that you should feel the need to egg me on? I don't recall having been stopped.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby merlin » 13 Feb 2012 16:57

shiv wrote:
merlin wrote:
Oh don't let anyone here stop your pisko jihad shiv.


Saar - have you noticed a break that you should feel the need to egg me on? I don't recall having been stopped.


Well only partially egging you on :P

A pisko analysis on this would be interesting to know why so many langots are in a twist. Mine certainly are :cry:

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 13 Feb 2012 17:05

kunalverma wrote:The 2006 letter is the key - firstly, the results of the Maj Gen to Lt Gen board were declassified on 15 April 2006. Two people who had to know this were the MS (Richard Khare) and the then COAS (JJ Singh). This point is also brought out in the MS's letter which has been published in the G-files and reproduced on this forum.

<snip>

JJ, Khare and the JAG need to answer why in this case, were the goal posts shifted and MS records - presuming the Army List nullified all other MS Records - superseded the AG Branch records only in the case of this one officer in the Indian Army! By its own SOP, the letter of 3 May was violating every norm that existed. It was an illegal letter, but it had the backing of the COAS (JJ). A smokescreen is thrown up at the same time, telling VKS that it is a procedural glitch and that after due verification the correction will be made. He is also told that all Corps commanders appointments are being held up, so please give a letter saying he accepts the COAS's decision in the 'organizational' interest. This is today being touted as the first 'Acceptance Letter'.

<snip>

The story in 2008 is slightly more complex. In the overall scheme of things initiated in 2006 (with political backing, as underlined by General Katoch yesterday) it was imperative that VKS becomes the COAS. Deepak Kapoor, the COAS at this point of time, was after a bigger objective which was to push VKS out of reckoning for Army commander. The question that comes to mind is if JJ had, as claimed by MOD, already got an 'Acceptance Letter' from VKS, why was another one required? Yet, with the legal eagle JAG sitting there, they once again triggered off the entire controversy. At this point of time, the Age was not the issue - Deepak Kapoor wanted VKS to give him the grounds for an insubordination charge. This had its own implications and went against the grain of the 'succession plan' that had the political backing at a level which went beyond the Defence Minister (Antony has repeatedly stated this, so have others as pointed out by General Katoch yesterday).



It is very plausible that VK Singh has been "had" and used. Who was the IAS officer who filed the RTI? Would he be connected to JJ Singh and Khare?

The thing that bothers me most here is that out of several million men who have passed through the Indian army this is a unique case of genuine discrepancy in the records. I may be wrong here but I believe that in the Indian army at any given time there may be more than one person who could become COAS? is that correct? Or is the next COAS fixed by a function of army number and birth date/retirement date of the preceding COAS.

It seems so convenient that in order to make the succession plan work VK Singh had to become COAS. Was it necessary for dates to be fiddled with for him to become COAS? Doesn't it seem oh so convenient that there just happened to be a man in the Indian army fit to be COAS who just happened to have a date of birth record discrepancy who just happened to be senior enough at exactly the right time that a little fiddling and hanky panky by JJ Singh made VKS fit the bill perfectly - to be edged out 1 year early so that some designated person could be positioned at exactly the right time to become COAS? The story may be true but is difficult to believe. I mean if I want someone to be COAS 5 or 6 years down the line I would normally be looking for all sorts of ways to get some convenient man like VKS to get the post at exactly the right time. But how extraordinarly lucky it would be for me to find a man who just happened to have a date of birth problem that could be sprung on him at just the right moment? How well known was the DoB discrepancy? Perhaps JJ Singh knew that such a discrepancy existed? Is it possible that other promotions earlier too were played with and other competent officers sidelined to place VKS at the right time and place with a date of birth time bomb waiting to be set off at exactly the right moment? Could that information be used against VK Singh? I note that one general has already accused VKS of spoiling his confidential report for not amending a DoB from 50 to 51.

The "Deepak Kapoor" wanting insubordination from VKS of course actually kills the succession plan. Where does that fit into the scheme of things?

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 13 Feb 2012 17:32

If I do a thought experiment and put myself in the position of the chief conspirator who wants a specific line of succession of Army chiefs of staff. Assume I have JJ Singh in place and due to retire in 2007.

I already have my man ready to take over in 2012.

How do I fill the years between 2007 and 2012?

Is Deepak Kapoor part of my succession plan? If I assume he is then my problem is solved until 2010. I still need a "filler" or "seat warmer" to hold the place till 2012.

If I have already got JJ Singh playing my game for me then the 2006 appointment of VKS as Corps Commander was already planned by me with the idea that VKS is in line for the COAS as "seat warmer" after Deepak Kapoor. But VKS is actually inconvenient because he retires only in 2013. Suddenly, to my luck, do I find that he has a DoB discrepancy? Or have I known all along that this man has a DoB discrepancy that i am going to spring on him and have I been planning from even before 2006 to move other contenders out of the way ensuring that VKS is in line for succession - only to be sabotaged by sleight of hand in 2006 introducing his DoB anomaly? Whom have I moved out of the way? Or was there no one else. If there was no other contender then the DoB anomaly was a brilliant stroke of luck for me.

The plan sounds too improbable to me. Can someone explain how this was achieved? I understand the thought that there are "deep" conspiracies. But you cannot win a case on "deep conspiracies" without laying them credibly bare.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby shiv » 13 Feb 2012 17:36

Folks do you recall the dark days after Operation Blue Star? There were Sikh desertions and a palpable and severe drop in the number of Sikhs in the Indian army courtesy your favorite sycophants'r'us political party.

Could this "conspiracy" be aimed at redressing that? I have conspiracy theories too.

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Pranav » 13 Feb 2012 17:43

shiv wrote:Can someone explain how this was achieved?


The succession plan probably relied on the erroneous Army list. When the error was noticed written commitments were extracted, which was exactly what the Supreme Court used to show VKS the door.

Sanku
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby Sanku » 13 Feb 2012 17:49

shiv wrote:Folks do you recall the dark days after Operation Blue Star? There were Sikh desertions and a palpable and severe drop in the number of Sikhs in the Indian army courtesy your favorite sycophants'r'us political party.

Could this "conspiracy" be aimed at redressing that? I have conspiracy theories too.


A very stupid and horrible way of going about it, if the case. Guranteed to be counterproductive in pissing off a whole bunch of Army in the process both Sikh and not Sikh.

Two wrongs dont make a right -- there is no reason to do skullduggery for a good cause -- skullduggery is hall mark of nefarious reasons.

Your conspricay theory is dismissed, in any case since you are being so fond of SC's wisdom, follow the wind on BRF. :wink: :mrgreen:

rohitvats
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Postby rohitvats » 13 Feb 2012 17:51

Shiv,

First things, first. The seniormost amongst the army commanders becomes the COAS. That has been accepted SOP for donkey years now and MOD has not fiddled with this - save a couple of instances. So, by the time VKS became Corps Commander, given his seniority (YOB not withstanding) and career record, it would have been abudantly clear that he had clear shot at the COAS post. This became a realty once he became the Army Commander. So, whatever had to happen, had to be done once he became Corps Commander. And this is how it actually played out in 2006. The 2008 controversy is more out of DK and his MS (Avadesh Prakash) having a go at VKS for VKS exposing the Sukhna Land Scam in which MS was/is one of the key accused.

So, as you put it, YOB anomaly was indeed the brilliant stroke of luck. And the very fact that then COAS encumbent wanted VKS to accept 1950 is sign of conspiracy. Had he not wanted to play favorites, under normal circumstances, internal inquiry would have been ordered to arrive at correct YOB so that others don't suffer because of administrative issues. The administrative issue was twisted to play favorites.


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