Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 03 Feb 2012 12:59

Any news on A-5, its Feb.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby adityadange » 03 Feb 2012 15:26

Aditya_V wrote:Any news on A-5, its Feb.

i read in some article that it will be conducted by feb end.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sudhan » 03 Feb 2012 18:45

Pranav wrote:Now, laser guided bullets -

Self-steering bullet researched by US weapons experts - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810107

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/5 ... ullets.jpg
An LED attached to a prototype bullet shows its flightpath during a night-time field test

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/5 ... ethand.jpg



I would be more interested to learn how they designate targets. I am sure the bullets are for humans/soft-skinned targets. How would you lase a tiny targets for a tiny ammo with little to no blast radius? I can think of lot of practical difficulties for the spotter..

Amazing tech nonetheless :)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 03 Feb 2012 19:36

they could use a MAV disguised as a bee or dragonfly to do the lasing, while the shooter gets video feed from behind a cover position and when he sees the laser is on target, unleashes the bullet without even showing himself.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 03 Feb 2012 19:41

sudhan wrote:
Pranav wrote:Now, laser guided bullets -

Self-steering bullet researched by US weapons experts - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810107

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/5 ... ullets.jpg
An LED attached to a prototype bullet shows its flightpath during a night-time field test

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/5 ... ethand.jpg



I would be more interested to learn how they designate targets. I am sure the bullets are for humans/soft-skinned targets. How would you lase a tiny targets for a tiny ammo with little to no blast radius? I can think of lot of practical difficulties for the spotter..

Amazing tech nonetheless :)


One could lase a large target for a spray of bullets

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sudhan » 06 Feb 2012 17:57

shiv wrote:
sudhan wrote:
Amazing tech nonetheless :)


One could lase a large target for a spray of bullets


True! At some point when the tech reaches mass production standards, the Apaches might carry it for 'special' missions..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Cain Marko » 06 Feb 2012 21:24

^ Nifty, it is the future imho. We'll see a lot more than this as scientists take the bullock cart road to subtler forms of warfare.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Reddy » 07 Feb 2012 04:18

sudhan wrote:
I would be more interested to learn how they designate targets. I am sure the bullets are for humans/soft-skinned targets. How would you lase a tiny targets for a tiny ammo with little to no blast radius? I can think of lot of practical difficulties for the spotter..

Amazing tech nonetheless :)


No need for complicated designation of a target. A big problem for long rang snipping is unpredicatable drift due to wind, temperature change etc. All that the bullet has to do is to follow predictable trajectory and it would be really woderful weapon for long range 2km+ snipping.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby NRao » 07 Feb 2012 04:28

Pop-out wings for gliding, loiter for 10 minutes, ..............................

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pralay » 10 Feb 2012 10:52

yey,
Interceptor is tested..
I just watched news on NDTV :D

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Feb 2012 12:02

Interceptor scores a direct hit on target missile

Immediately after the modified Prithvi was launched, the Long Range Tracking Radars near Puri picked up the target missile as also the Multi Functional Radar at Paradip tracked the missile and passed on the information to guidance computer, which gave the command for launching of AAD after computing the target’s flight. Equipped with inertial navigation system, a hi-tech computer and a radio-frequency seeker the AAD locked on to the target missile and blasted it in the terminal phase.


Reading this I get the feeling

1) The Missile Launched was a modified Prithvi

2) Missile was Launched at Sea towards Land.

adding 1 and 2, I think the Target Missile was a version of Dhanush launched from a Naval ship.

Therefore, was the whole Dhanush programme created so that we can we make target missiles for our anti ballistic missile programme as the missile makes little sense as a Nuclear deterent.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kailash » 10 Feb 2012 12:39

Adityaji, you link says
A few minutes after the ‘hostile’ missile, a modified surface-to-surface Prithvi, took off at 10.10 a.m. from Launch Complex-3 at Chandipur,


How does the article give that impression? Why would Dhanush be limited to a threat missile role?

I see no connection.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Feb 2012 12:44

Well, Just that given that Balasore is on the coast, would we want to fire a Ballistic missile over land and

2) Given that a Ship with a Ballistic Missile is easily detected, Why would anyone lug a ship with BM within 350KM of coast of Hostile territory. Surely is too risky to keep this as part of your Triad, thats why no other nation has tried keeping Ballistic Missiles on Surface ships so far.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 10 Feb 2012 21:13

It was an easy solution to have ship borne SSM to enable a tri-service deterrent.


Other nations dont have shipborne strategic deterrent as ships are easy to locate. In mid 60s there was proposal for ship borne Polaris to NATO and was scrapped as the ships are easy to locate by FSU and hence destabilizing.

Above test has the modified Prithvi have the terminal speed of a 2000km incoming vehicle.

The target missile mimicked an incoming enemy missile with a range of more than 2,000 km. This success makes six of the tests successful, including the first three in a row.



I would say AAD is ready for deployment as three in a row is 90% confidence level.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 13 Feb 2012 21:46

^^^ I too concur with Ramana on AAD being ready for deployment...Taramak's article couple of moons back also talked about deploying Indian BMD around the NCR. similar noises have been made by Shri VKS as well as other DRDO brass. none by IA or IAF. which service would own and operate the Indian BMD? (IA, IAF or the SFC?!?!?!?)
I presume IAF.
next step, test against a modified Agni Missile!!! fire it from the Andamans and destroy it.
an interesting aspect of all these tests is the one on one interception by missiles. this speaks volumes about the confidence of DRDO.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 13 Feb 2012 23:57

We need to strike back immediately in case of a nuclear strike. Since IAF can not decide on this, we may save lead time if the system is under SFC. It may well be a IAF manned system with SFC command.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 14 Feb 2012 00:49

koti wrote:We need to strike back immediately in case of a nuclear strike. Since IAF can not decide on this, we may save lead time if the system is under SFC. It may well be a IAF manned system with SFC command.
Why will a BMD be different from an air defense role? What does the US or Israel do? Seems IAF should get command of BMD, as they own air defense.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2012 01:02

Ground based air defense is usually Army role and responsibility.
Like AA artillery.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ShauryaT » 14 Feb 2012 01:26

ramana wrote:Ground based air defense is usually Army role and responsibility.
Like AA artillery.
Even for air space over cities and like or just for the IA's installations?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2012 02:26

Plane based air defence is the air force's. Ground based airbase air defence is also air force's in India.
City air defence using ground assets is army role.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby srai » 14 Feb 2012 02:28

ShauryaT wrote:
ramana wrote:Ground based air defense is usually Army role and responsibility.
Like AA artillery.
Even for air space over cities and like or just for the IA's installations?


The IAF is the agency in charge of air-defense of the Indian airspace. On the other hand, the IA's air-defense is mostly limited to protection of its forces on the move (i.e. SA-6, Tunguska, Shilka, SA-16, Akash Army etc). However, AFAIK, flak AA-artillery (i.e. Bofors-L40/70, 23mm) is manned by IA personnel, but the nation-wide networked LR/MR radars, missiles (SA-3, SA-8, Barak-8, Akash Air Force, BMD, LLQRM) and some MANPADS (SA-16) that protect the 150 VA/VP are under the IAF and manned by IAF personnel.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2012 02:38

OK.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 15 Feb 2012 19:37

Is MANPADS only used by IAF?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 15 Feb 2012 21:43

^^ all three services use them

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Spike SR JV opportnity?

Postby Badar » 15 Feb 2012 23:06

"...the lightweight, man-portable Spike SR, a ‘fire and forget’ short-range guided missile enabling infantrymen to engage a wide range of targets with high precision, from ranges up to 800 meters...Rafael has completed the program’s feasibility testing and is now seeking international customers and partners to pursue full-scale development."

more at
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sum » 20 Feb 2012 09:36

CLUB-CLASS: India now eyes ICBM Agni-6, even as A-5 readies to spit fire | Work on MIRV, MarV possibilities begin

Bangalore: India’s big bang missile Agni-5 is moving towards the strike-zone carrying new technologies as a stepping stone for futuristic killer-missions. But, silently yet another story is being scripted for Agni-6, India’s club-class Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM). Range: In excess of 6,000 km!
Notwithstanding what happens with the A-5 launch, sources tell that the missile scientists are already looking at newer possibilities in making future strike meaningful and menacing. “There are many more areas in long range missiles where future work can happen. Multiple independently-targeted re-entry vehicles (MIRV), manoeuvring re-entry vehicles (MaRV) considerably lighter weights using all composite structure with high energy propellant, the intelligent counter measures against BMD (ballistic missile defences), reducing radar cross-sections are some of them,” sources said.
But, military experts point out that the Defence Reserach and Development Organisation (DRDO) will have to travel some distance before achieving the MIRV\MaRV capabilities. “Good to hear we are on track but it is a very complex technology. It’s worth the wait and see when A-5 will be finally inducted into the Services, with what features and in what numbers. Range and accuracy are first two primary factors one should watch for,” a warhead specialist with Indian Army told Express.

Avinash Chander, Chief Controller, R&D (Missiles and Strategic Systems), DRDO, told Express over the phone from New Delhi that his team has definitely taken stock of the road ahead. “Future systems may carry different types of payloads such as high energy weapons. All these technology developments are within the horizon. Further systems whenever planned, will have some of these (read as MIRV\MarV) features,” Avinash said. However, he refused to comment on Agni-6.
To a query on the factors that have influenced during A-5 development, Avinash, the brain behind the missile, said that India needs a platform which has the range to cover its emerging area of influence. “It also needs high mobility, safety and accuracy. A-5 provides a state-of-the-art weapon, an amalgam of multiple front-end technologies and capabilities. Along with A-4, it represents the new generation of Agni series. It also provides a strategic depth enabling its positioning deep within our country where it has much higher survivability,” he said adding: “It also enables launch from anywhere with very short reaction time which makes it extremely difficult to deny its usage by any hostile intervention by the enemy.”
When asked about the possible launch date of A-5, Avinash said: “We are on course. These are all highly technology-intense missions. The launch campaign will officially begin in the middle of the month. These are first-time developments and there will be some uncertainties.”
V G Sekaran, Director, Advanced System Laboratories (ASL), says that the confidence of going for a project like A-5 came from DRDO’s matured work-cluture. “Today we are not shying away from taking risks and our enthusiasm comes with age, experience, fearlessness and the freedom to explore. Agni-5 will be a new chapter as we enter a different class of missile field,” Sekaran said.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 20 Feb 2012 13:42

making all stages composite for the existing Agni series missiles would be a good step.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kailash » 20 Feb 2012 14:43


KrishnaK
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby KrishnaK » 20 Feb 2012 14:52

Deleted message, my mistake.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 20 Feb 2012 21:15



A mother missile acts as a “force multiplier” and to achieve the desired result, each miniaturised missile will have a seeker to ensure its independent motion, irrespective of the mother missile's motion.

Scientists at the Research Centre Imarat (RCI), a key laboratory of Defence Research and Development Organisation's (DRDO) missile complex here, have embarked on developing such seekers to eventually equip mother missiles with smaller missiles packed with PGMs.


Kalam's dream, isn't it?

By the end of 2013, a crucial trial of the RPV with missile-launched PGMs to hit a target with both IIR (Imaging infrared) and mmW (millimteric Wave) seekers was being planned. Later, a flight test with a mother missile would be conducted, he said.

Another frontier technology area in which scientists have begun work is to design and develop ‘Low Probability of Intercept Radar Seeker' to equip anti-ship and anti-aircraft missiles.

This seeker will enable the missile to escape detection and jamming by enemy radars. Currently, Russia and the U.S. have such seekers, a senior RCI scientist said.


A few months ago, a major success was achieved when anti-tank Nag missile was flight-tested with an indigenously-developed mmW seeker.
Is that discussed here?

Slowly we are solving our weaknesses to provide complete & futuristic missile solutions.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 20 Feb 2012 21:25

sum wrote:CLUB-CLASS: India now eyes ICBM Agni-6, even as A-5 readies to spit fire | Work on MIRV, MarV possibilities begin

Bangalore: India’s big bang missile Agni-5 is moving towards the strike-zone carrying new technologies as a stepping stone for futuristic killer-missions. But, silently yet another story is being scripted for Agni-6, India’s club-class Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM). Range: In excess of 6,000 km!
Notwithstanding what happens with the A-5 launch, sources tell that the missile scientists are already looking at newer possibilities in making future strike meaningful and menacing. “There are many more areas in long range missiles where future work can happen. Multiple independently-targeted re-entry vehicles (MIRV), manoeuvring re-entry vehicles (MaRV) considerably lighter weights using all composite structure with high energy propellant, the intelligent counter measures against BMD (ballistic missile defences), reducing radar cross-sections are some of them,” sources said.
But, military experts point out that the Defence Reserach and Development Organisation (DRDO) will have to travel some distance before achieving the MIRV\MaRV capabilities. “Good to hear we are on track but it is a very complex technology. It’s worth the wait and see when A-5 will be finally inducted into the Services, with what features and in what numbers. Range and accuracy are first two primary factors one should watch for,” a warhead specialist with Indian Army told Express.

Avinash Chander, Chief Controller, R&D (Missiles and Strategic Systems), DRDO, told Express over the phone from New Delhi that his team has definitely taken stock of the road ahead. “Future systems may carry different types of payloads such as high energy weapons. All these technology developments are within the horizon. Further systems whenever planned, will have some of these (read as MIRV\MarV) features,” Avinash said. However, he refused to comment on Agni-6.
To a query on the factors that have influenced during A-5 development, Avinash, the brain behind the missile, said that India needs a platform which has the range to cover its emerging area of influence. “It also needs high mobility, safety and accuracy. A-5 provides a state-of-the-art weapon, an amalgam of multiple front-end technologies and capabilities. Along with A-4, it represents the new generation of Agni series. It also provides a strategic depth enabling its positioning deep within our country where it has much higher survivability,” he said adding: “It also enables launch from anywhere with very short reaction time which makes it extremely difficult to deny its usage by any hostile intervention by the enemy.”



Is that bit old news! Anyway, while A5 meant to cover the current/immediate needs to provide strategic coverage, A6 is something that will be futuristic, in the sense you have don't have timeline constraints.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Katare » 21 Feb 2012 00:32

Mother missile = Precision guided cluster missile

Or you can say MIRVs that remain within atmosphere

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 21 Feb 2012 08:49

The concept is being extended and amalgamated into three broad classification

1. Tactical missile - like future concept Perseus from MDBA stable.

2. Strategic missile - involving more advanced MaRV & MIRV ( that's what talked as futuristic in A6, most probably)

3. Loitering missile - both tactical and strategic. With advancement in technology this can be leveraged to give second strike option as a 4th leg supplementing Sea leg SLBM. This is a huge area for innovation and gives phenomenal options for Armed Forces.


I can't miss to point out that while Perseus is just a concept from MDBA still, we are already moved to testing.

http://www.mbda-systems.com/innovation/ ... 1-perseus/

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 22 Feb 2012 09:16

http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2012/02/alh-rudra-ready-to-spit-fire-hal.html

The first time I am seeing Helina being fired.

Maybe FOC in tow years has something to do with induction of Helina.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Will » 22 Feb 2012 09:36


Reading this I get the feeling

1) The Missile Launched was a modified Prithvi

2) Missile was Launched at Sea towards Land.

adding 1 and 2, I think the Target Missile was a version of Dhanush launched from a Naval ship.

Therefore, was the whole Dhanush programme created so that we can we make target missiles for our anti ballistic missile programme as the missile makes little sense as a Nuclear deterent.


I think the Dhanush program was more to do with validating a sea based missile launcher than the actual missile itself. As you said such a short range missile makes no sense as a Nuclear deterent.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_22866 » 22 Feb 2012 11:01

Will wrote:

Reading this I get the feeling

1) The Missile Launched was a modified Prithvi

2) Missile was Launched at Sea towards Land.

adding 1 and 2, I think the Target Missile was a version of Dhanush launched from a Naval ship.

Therefore, was the whole Dhanush programme created so that we can we make target missiles for our anti ballistic missile programme as the missile makes little sense as a Nuclear deterent.


I think the Dhanush program was more to do with validating a sea based missile launcher than the actual missile itself. As you said such a short range missile makes no sense as a Nuclear deterent.


Also it may be for the mass attack on the ports like Karachi as the missile weapon load is 1000KG with 350km range or 500KG with 600km range. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kailash » 22 Feb 2012 11:11

Will, Ketan, Aditya check the article in ABM thread. Hope this clarifies the role of Dhanush - as a ship based interceptor.

An informed source in the DRDO said that although the interceptor used in this mission was capable of intercepting missiles coming from 300 to 2,000 km away, India needed ship-based platforms for launching interceptors far away from the shore. “We are planning to realise such platforms in the near future,” he said.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_19648 » 25 Feb 2012 14:57

Interesting piece of news here, could cause significant amount of heart palpitation!

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/shaurya-surfaces-as-india%5Cs-underwater-nuclear-missile/385952/
Shaurya surfaces as India's underwater nuclear missile

The country’s top defence scientist has, for the first time, revealed that India’s new Shaurya missile, which can carry a one-tonne nuclear warhead over 750 kilometers, is specially designed to be fired from Indian submarines and could form the crucial third leg of India’s nuclear deterrent.

If launched from a submarine off the China coast, it could hit several Chinese cities like Beijing, Nanjing and Shanghai.

Air and land-based nuclear weapons are delivered to their targets by fighter aircraft and ballistic missiles, respectively. Since these can be knocked out by an enemy first strike, the most reliable nuclear deterrent has traditionally been underwater, missiles hidden in a submarine.

V K Saraswat, the DRDO chief and Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, revealed to Business Standard at the ongoing Defexpo 2010, “We have designed the Shaurya so that it can be launched from under water as easily as from land. The gas-filled canister that houses the missile fits easily into a submarine. The underwater leg of the nuclear triad needs to be totally reliable and needs a state-of-the-art missile.”

India’s undersea deterrent had so far revolved around the K-15 ballistic missile, built with significant help from Russia. The K-15 was to equip the INS Arihant, India’s lone nuclear-powered submarine, which is being constructed in Visakhapatnam. But now, after rigorous underwater testing, the Shaurya could be the mainstay of Arihant’s arsenal.

“The Shaurya was developed from ground up as a submarine-capable missile,” confirms Dr Prahlada, the top DRDO scientist responsible for liaising with the military. “Every piece of technology for fitting it in a submarine is already in place.”

Shortly before the Defexpo 2010, Dr Saraswat had publicly stated that India’s missile technology was ahead of China’s and Pakistan’s.

Now top DRDO scientists have revealed that the Shaurya is not a ballistic missile, as it has been thought to be; it is actually a hypersonic cruise missile, which never leaves the atmosphere.

A ballistic missile is like a stone being lobbed towards a target. Rockets toss it upwards and towards the target; after the rocket burns out, gravity pulls the missile warhead down towards the target. Buffeted by wind and re-entry forces, accuracy is a problem; and, since the ballistic missile’s path is predictable, shooting it down is relatively easy.

The Shaurya has none of these issues. Its solid-fuel, two-stage rocket accelerates the missile to six times the speed of sound before it reaches an altitude of 40 kilometers (125,000 feet), after which it levels out and cruises towards the target, powered by its onboard fuel.

While ballistic missiles cannot correct their course midway, the Shaurya is an intelligent missile. Onboard navigation computers kick in near the target, guiding the missile to the target and eliminating errors that inevitably creep in during its turbulent journey.

The Shaurya, say DRDO sources, will strike within 20-30 metres of its target after travelling 750 kilometres.

Conventional cruise missiles, like the American Tomahawk and the Indo-Russian Brahmos, offer similar accuracy. But their air-breathing engines carry them along slowly, rendering them vulnerable to enemy aircraft and missiles. The Shaurya’s solid-fuel, air-independent engine propels it along at hypersonic speeds, leaving enemy fighters and missiles far behind.

“I would say the Shaurya is a hybrid propulsion missile”, says Dr Saraswat. “Like a ballistic missile, it is powered by solid fuel. And, like a cruise missile, it can guide itself right up to the target.”

Making the Shaurya even more capable is its ability to manoeuvre, following a twisting path to the target that makes it very difficult to shoot it down. In contrast, a ballistic missile is predictable; its trajectory gives away its target and its path to it.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Feb 2012 15:24

What are the Dimensions of Shaurya, it is a Hypersonic cruise missile, any chance it can be launched from torpedo tubes like exocet from Agosta or it needs to be cold launched like a Ballistic missile.

For China I wish our Nuclear deterrent had a longer range than 750 Km


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