Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 16 Mar 2012 12:25

Aditya G wrote:clone of Naval version of Prithv

can we use this to imply that the Naval version of Prithvi can have a range of 700km+?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Mar 2012 12:27

No. Dhanush != Shourya in any shape or form.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 16 Mar 2012 14:36

Sometimes its better to have a DDM that has no clue on such issues. Keeps the enemy guessing.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Mar 2012 17:51

whats 62K when Khan can be pressured to keep funding

Its Khan thats going bankrpt and down the toilet in the process

meanwhile the myth is kept up...

Badar · Post by **Badar** » 16 Mar 2012 21:01

Badar wrote:"...the lightweight, man-portable Spike SR, a ‘fire and forget’ short-range guided missile enabling infantrymen to engage a wide range of targets with high precision, from ranges up to 800 meters...Rafael has completed the program’s feasibility testing and is now seeking international customers and partners to pursue full-scale development."

more at
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

Gratifying to learn there may be progress on the Spike SR JV front.

"A parallel acquisition by the Indian army is a lightweight guided missile for the infantry. Rafael’s Mini-Spike could become a contender for this program. As far as industrial participation and technology transfer, if Rafael eventually wins the order, the Indians will get the first deliveries of the missiles made in Israel but Rafael is likely to shift production to India, as it has done in other markets like Poland and Spain.

Likewise, Rafael and Bharat Dynamics have recently stepped up their dialog with plans to establish a local joint venture. The companies are currently seeking a private sector, Indian-based partner to join the company. This selected company will become the local entity to acquire the know-how and production technologies to deliver the weapon’s critical subsystems, including missile seekers for air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles and the Spike’s electro-optical seekers."

more at
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... artnership

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 19 Mar 2012 07:55

Missile unit to come up at Ibrahimpatnam

HYDERABAD: A surface-to-air missile unit is all set to come up at a cost of Rs 30,000 crore at Ibrahimpatnam in Ranga Reddy district. The foundation stone for the project by Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) was laid by chief minister N Kiran Kumar Reddy on Sunday.

The infrastructure for the project, spread over 630 acres of land, will be ready in three years' time. Initially, an estimated 6,000 missiles are expected to be produced at the unit which would be equipped to subsequently expand production to keep up with the demand.

M Pallam Raju, the Union minister of state for defence, said that the project budget would be allocated in the 12th and 13th Plans. Project developer BDL's turnover would go from Rs 1,000 crore to Rs 5,000 crore once production begins at the surface-to-air missile defence project unit at Ibrahimpatnam. The new unit will create 1,000 officer-level jobs and Pallam Raju said that manpower from educational institutions should be churned out as per industry requirements to enable the local population to benefit from the project and find employment at the unit.
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Maj Gen Ravi Khetarpal (rtd), chairman and managing director of BDL, said that the Ibrahimpatnam unit would be the company's fourth manufacturing unit in Andhra Pradesh and the fifth in the country. He revealed that the Ibrahimpatnam project would kick off with an initial investment of Rs 2,500 crore.

The technology for missile production would be transferred by the DRDO which is collaborating with a foreign partner. He said the country's first indigenous surface-to-air missile 'Akash' was ready, manufactured by BDL.

Defence units with Rs 7,000 crore investment coming up in Andhra Pradesh

Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju said the BDL's turnover in four to five years would go up to $1 billion (Rs.5,000 crore).

The minister pointed out that the BDL has the entire missile research and development programme in the state. He said three missile development projects were coming up in Medak, Visakhapatnam and Ibrahimpatnam.

rahuls · Post by **rahuls** » 21 Mar 2012 18:46

DRDO requests for more funds

Saraswat cited several new development projects that demanded immediate funding, specifically the short-range surface to air missile; the Arjun Mark II tank; the Tejas Mark II fighter; and the Agni-5 and Agni-6 nuclear-capable, long-range, ballistic missiles. “We request the honourable RM (raksha mantri) to consider higher allocation of funds for DRDO,” said Saraswat.

Agni-6 ??

Vashishtha · Post by **Vashishtha** » 21 Mar 2012 20:07

I thought agni 5 was the last one in the series...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Mar 2012 22:15

X-post....
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 6#p1258446

krishnan wrote:
The ELF communications facility constitutes the third leg of a triad of projects being implemented by the DRDO’s ATV Project Office, with the other two being construction of the S-1 ‘half boat’ at Kalpakkam and the S-2, S-3, S-4 and S-5 SSBNs; and development of the 750km-range K-15/B-05, 3,500km-range K-4 and eventually the 8,500km-range SLBM, which in the past had been mistakenly referred to as Agni-6.

So A-6 is the SLBM. And current cut in DRDO funds puts that at risk.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Mar 2012 01:10

Will the arihant be left to give joyrides until the slbm gets delivered? Sometimes we just dont realise the cost of current profligacy. The govt is such a wastrel!

Badar · Post by **Badar** » 22 Mar 2012 02:35

Prasad wrote:Will the arihant be left to give joyrides until the slbm gets delivered? Sometimes we just dont realise the cost of current profligacy. The govt is such a wastrel!

Might not be such a bad idea to iron out engineering, powerplant and operational kinks out of the system before loading them up with SLBMs.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 22 Mar 2012 03:36

Ramana garu, that 8,500 km SLBM is according to Prasun Sengupta so I would take it with several large bags of salt.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 04:13

Oh. Well its a data after all.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 22 Mar 2012 04:36

There is some confusion of what A6 is. Some reports suggested that it will be an MIRV carrying missile. However, the funding constraint needs to be watched.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 06:43

ShauryaT, Read the Shyam Saran and BK's critique of NA 2.0 and elicit a pattern in UPA funding, non funding, scams, bans etc. It might be planned CBM under guise of funding challenges.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 22 Mar 2012 11:34

As per tarmak blog,
"With a range of 5,000-plus-km, the missile when launched, is expected to travel to its target in international waters close to Australia. “The ships meant for tracking, which are normally positioned near the target, are expected to begin their long journey in the first week of April. We expect the sailing time to be between 10-12 days,” sources said.

So the point is, is it a standard tracking procedure which DRDO is following, because as I know DRDO did not followed such tracking procedure for agni prime but just for final target hit verification(degree of accuracy and all).
Now the another issue of concern will be the real tracking serious after induction, do we need to develop Long range tracking units(like 4000 KM+) or we have some other platform for final deployment.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Mar 2012 12:15

>> because as I know DRDO did not followed such tracking procedure for agni prime but just for final target hit verification

how do you come to such a conclusion ? tracking ships are located near the target area. for A2P etc these were near andamans, for A-5 and beyond these would be further away. that's all.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Mar 2012 12:16

^^ Akash factory floor @ BEL( From Broadsword blog):

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 14:33

sum wrote:^^ Akash factory floor @ BEL( From Broadsword blog):

BEL??

Probably BEML. Not BEL

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 22 Mar 2012 15:43

Rahul M wrote:>> because as I know DRDO did not followed such tracking procedure for agni prime but just for final target hit verification

how do you come to such a conclusion ? tracking ships are located near the target area. for A2P etc these were near andamans, for A-5 and beyond these would be further away. that's all.

Rahul sir, the following description I get on the A-prime flight report,

"Describing the test-firing as "successful", defence sources said the missile’s exact performances will be known after all data was collected and analysed from different telemetry and tracking stations as well as naval ships positioned near the terminal point."

So, sir according to above statement DRDO use telemetry and tracking stations for tracking the path and naval ships close to terminal point (or target) specifically for final target hit verification.
Please rectify me,if I am wrong.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 22 Mar 2012 15:48

shiv wrote:BEL??

Probably BEML. Not BEL

I also thought the same first but the trucks are TATA, so they must be at BEL for the electronics package. Correct me if I'am wrong.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 22 Mar 2012 17:25

This is the umpteenth time I am seeing BEL mentioned producing the Akash SAM but I am still conphused.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Mar 2012 17:28

Well blow me down - the following link says BEL
http://idp.justthe80.com/missiles/air-d ... sh-missile

Bharat Electronics will be the nodal production agency along with Bharat Dynamics and there will be at least 40 industries from the public and private sectors that will be involved with the manufacture of these missiles in large numbers.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Mar 2012 17:40

keshav, yes and they will do the same for A-5 and beyond. where's the confusion ?

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 22 Mar 2012 18:14

I would have expected BDL not BEL to be the nodal agency for producing Akash.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 22 Mar 2012 18:26

Infact, check the minister statement on why they selected BEL in addition to BDL..........

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 20:45

Is Gagan still around?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 22 Mar 2012 20:52

BEL and BDL are both producing the Akash missile keeping the large sized order in mind. There was an interview as such with theBDL chairman.

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Mar 2012 21:53

Its almost showtime ( as per Tarmak007):

Bangalore: India's longest-ever near-Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) Agni-V is scheduled to be test-fired from the Wheeler Island (Orissa) in the second week of April. The final stages and payload of the missile are set to move out of the Missile Complex in Hyderabad any time now. Sources tell Express that some major parts, including the motors of the missile, have already reached the launch site.
“The final checks and integration of all stages will be carried out in Wheeler Island. The check-out and launch pad tests will be completed in the next 15-20 days. The new launcher for the missile is ready. Over 200 scientists and close to 300 technicians are working round-the-clock at the Missile Complex and other work centers,” sources said. The missile is parented by Defence Research Development Organisation's (DRDO) Hyderabad-based unit, Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL).
With a range of 5,000-plus-km, the missile when launched, is expected to travel to its target in international waters close to Australia. “The ships meant for tracking, which are normally positioned near the target, are expected to begin their long journey in the first week of April. We expect the sailing time to be between 10-12 days,” sources said.
Agni-V is the first Indian missile with four stages, including three propulsion and one final payload stage (re-entry vehicle). The others in the Agni series (A-2, A-3 & A-4) had only three stages making Agni-V an extremely complex vehicle. “The missile is expected to hit the target within 20 minutes as things stand now. The tentative date for the launch is fixed for April 16 and this is again not final,” sources said.
As reported in these columns earlier, Agni-V can be launched from anywhere in India in any direction at any time.

Maybe even the Nerpa might track the A-5 near Oz on its sloooow journey to India...

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 22 Mar 2012 21:54

keshavchandra wrote:I get on the A-prime flight report,

"Describing the test-firing as "successful", defence sources said the missile’s exact performances will be known after all data was collected and analysed from different telemetry and tracking stations as well as naval ships positioned near the terminal point."

Newbie Question: How do they ensure that the untested missile doesnt fall on to the naval ships positioned near the terminal point ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Mar 2012 22:04

Is the payload stage being used as fourth stage or for terminal correction? Usually the enigne in the payload is not considred a stage at all.

And missile are not parented but designed. Wish the writer had gone through atleast Wren and Martin grammar book.

I know the soruces are being helpful but what they are givng out is normally considered calssified info in other countries. The checkout time gives an idea of what it takes to convert a tactical configuration to test configuration and integrate the vehicle from its component parts (15-20 days). The manpower also shows the complexity or whatnot of the missile. The time to target of 20 minutes gives an idea of the range capability and the trajectory. Looks like a shallow shot.

------------------

AdityaM, The path is fairly stable and splashdown point will be accurate location. So they will station the ships nearby. At that time its only the renetry vehicle and not the whole missile.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 22 Mar 2012 22:34

Usually a range safety officer will be closely tracking the trajectory and make an independent call to terminate the test. The ships' positions might be determined by the response time of the range-safety mechanisms (how fast can it be terminated, if it starts veering towards a ship) as well as safe distances (like how far the debris can rain down after termination) etc.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 23 Mar 2012 12:33

when i was a nanha muj i wrote some parts of the range safety software. the range safety officer had a whole set of inputs displayed on three-four screens back then and one mouse click would terminate the whole test

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 23 Mar 2012 12:38

I am sure the greenpeace dudes who turn up and station their boats during such missile tests have no such fancy equipment at their disposal. Or do they?

these NGOs are better funded than anyone else.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 23 Mar 2012 14:57

Indian SAM-3s Smash Pak F-16s. In Film@livefist.

This animation by Anurag Rana depicting PAF F-16s being intercepted by Indian SAM-3 Pechoras is part of a larger upcoming film by Wing Commander R.S. Chauhan.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 25 Mar 2012 10:32

This system would be useful to protect ships, radar installations and maybe even tanks ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... GrJnxdDbO8

Also, if such systems are being used by the enemy, then a Mach 6 missile such as Prahaar would probably have a better chance than a Mach 3 missile like Brahmos.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 25 Mar 2012 11:38

^^^ That's why Hyper sonic Brahmos.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Mar 2012 13:07

Pranav wrote:This system would be useful to protect ships, radar installations and maybe even tanks ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... GrJnxdDbO8

Also, if such systems are being used by the enemy, then a Mach 6 missile such as Prahaar would probably have a better chance than a Mach 3 missile like Brahmos.

And Airfeilds, command centers etc, taking down TV Laser Guided, GPS guided bombs and Cruise missiles, increasing the ability to defend vital miltary targets.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 25 Mar 2012 17:15

Pranav wrote:This system would be useful to protect ships, radar installations and maybe even tanks ...

CIWS like goalkeeper or phalanx are too big for tanks, for tanks and APCs you have the 'trophy'

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Mar 2012 22:27

Also, if such systems are being used by the enemy, then a Mach 6 missile such as Prahaar would probably have a better chance than a Mach 3 missile like Brahmos.

Given enough time and funds this cat and mouse game will continue. There is really no end to it.

From an Indian PoV all that matters for the immediate future is what is in the 'hood.

What is of great importance is that India has been able to adapt this neat technology for all three branches AND tweak that one missile for multiple purposes. We talk about open-architecture (for the MKI as an example), seems that that thinking has helped build numerable options and will continue to provide even greater options at reasonable costs and expectations.

What I would like to see is a host of missiles for missile defense. And, missiles to take out the source of missile launchers within very, very short time.