Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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SaiK
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

ramana, perhaps add the year variable to the wooden round, how about >10 year min life-cycle? not only it gets right message, it will be delivered right.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Sushupti »

svinayak
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by svinayak »

The Chinese Dongfeng-41 (DF-41, CSS-X-10) Nuclear solid-fueled road-mobile Intercontinental Ballistic Missile with an operational range of more than 15,000 km, is capable of up to 12 multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicle warheads. India is atleast 10 years behind Chinese Defense Technology.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

we barely have a couple of pix of DF31 being tested. the DF41 is said to be in development...are there any photos of it in parades or testing to show its deployment status.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

ramana wrote:
koti wrote:Where are the control surfaces?
ts thrust vector controlled by actuators which deflect the rocket nozzle (2-3 degrees) as needed. So no control surfaces needed.
Payload controls are by thursters. Look at the animations all over the news sites.

Ramana garu, will that limit maneuverability as compared to control surfaces? I mean there is only so much/so many of gas cylinders we can accommodate inside the vehicle, is that a limitation at all? but I guess thrust vectoring using gas thrusters can make it very responsive and hence more maneuverable?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by abhijitm »

Me think Agni 5 deserves a unique name. If DRDO doesn't name it then BRF should have our own name, like Rambha & Katrina. But this beast's name should be masculine :)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Samay »

Now thats our bullet in the dragon's a$$

This is a dragon killing weapon

We can now burn the dragon


Congratulations to all Bhartiyas
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Singha wrote:here is the old Arun_S slide deck on the Agni BGRV
http://www.slideshare.net/ramana_56/bgr ... -c-9600008#

Most desis have mushairas and parties. We had a five hour jingo family gathering were this was presented. Wanted the better halfs and non BRF members to know what BRF is all about. Five hours of rapt attention. Offcourse there were other presentations too on geopolitics, game theory to model Intl Relations so on and so forth.
-----------

Acharya, PRC has other challeges for their stuff. India doesn't have to match that game. One big BGRV to deliver a tonne of good wishes in their lap will do.

Sort of Jaydrath vadh.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by svinayak »

The strange thing about China is that although they are great thinkers, long-term strategic planners and proven executors, they seem to have an overdose of pettiness. They will quibble about the minute issues, feel slighted at the slightest provocation even when it's only perceived and not real, and feel that every foothold or minor issue anywhere is vital for their sense of control or power.

A tongue-in-cheek explanation of this could be that for most of their history the Chinese emperors surrounded themselves with hundreds of quibbling concubines and Chinese courts were filled with people each plotting to gain an edge against the others. Often the kingdom ran on auto-pilot with the emperor barely aware of what's happening in the vast country militarily and economically.

That despite some great rulers from time to time who shaped the country. Whatever it is, it tends to lead these very wise people to commit some blunder that from time to time plunges the country into darkness for centuries.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Aditya_V wrote:Nice slideshow in the Hindu.


Agni-V scripts long-range success

Wonder if B Raman will get nervous about DRDO scientists also!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by gakakkad »

abhijitm wrote:Me think Agni 5 deserves a unique name. If DRDO doesn't name it then BRF should have our own name, like Rambha & Katrina. But this beast's name should be masculine :)

how about singha ? :rotfl: 5000km + is a long range..why not name it after BRs great marathoner ?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by neerajb »

Singha wrote:some data points. Minuteman3 has a 4th stage motor, that presumably stretches its max range. very low thrust liquid engine but as it only needs to push the MIRV section at light gravity, it does the job. this is likely the HAM (high alt motor) that Arun_S used to talk of.
Nice animation of Minuteman III's flight.

[youtube]7jFCmfAhhQg&feature=related[/youtube]

Cheers....
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Mrs. Thomas has put it right.. Science does not have gender.

Not sure, why our DDM keep asking about this question to her.
I would say, gender is part of Science.. but only one thing that beats science is DDM.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by vdutta »

one more confusion apart from my other unanswered confusions.

the below agni V image shows three parts connected by pipes or sort.
but the actual image of launch shows one continuous body.
nits wrote:Image

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by vdutta »

gakakkad wrote:
abhijitm wrote:Me think Agni 5 deserves a unique name. If DRDO doesn't name it then BRF should have our own name, like Rambha & Katrina. But this beast's name should be masculine :)

how about singha ? :rotfl: 5000km + is a long range..why not name it after BRs great marathoner ?
i have better name for the missile. lets name it Beijing :twisted: or Shanghai :lol:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

karan_mc wrote:
Next Major thing after Agni-V , might be another Missile coming from Agni Family , that will be Agni-VI , DRDO News letter of May 2011 had hinted about Agni- VI , Some reports claimed that the ICBM is already named “Surya” and code named AGNI-VI, but no confirmation has been put forward by DRDO , but DRDO news letter mentioned that Shri Avinash Chander, current development head of Agni-IV and Agni- V will head three projects and third Project mentioned was 6000 km A6 system with multiple warheads (MIRV) capable of launching both from the ground and underwater.
So Agni-V Plus will be called as Agni-VI

Link

Quote in full as it has the next steps


India dashed into Elite Group of Countries , in terms of Missile technology and current Agni -V put India into the big league , but what next is the question been asked , well current plans for the DRDO will be to have two more test of Agni-V variant with one year period time and next launch as per sources will be a canisterised based Agni-V .

Most crucial test which come after 2014 that will feature Agni-V with Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs) with each missile being capable of carrying 3-10 separate nuclear warheads. MIRVs ensure a credible second strike capability even with few missiles.

Next Big thing in Indian Missile arsenal will be development of K-X series by DRDO, K-X, named after former President of India Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, is the next significant development under the K-X series by DRDO, K-X missiles will be India’s Submarine launched missiles , under development for INS Arihant class nuclear submarines .

Under K-X series , DRDO is said to be developing three class of missiles under this secret project , that involves development of K-15 aka Sagarika , which is a submarine missile based on Shourya missile (Surface based) will range of 750 km and DRDO also have declared that more then 15 test of this missiles have been carried out in last few years .

K-4 is another missile supposedly based on Agni-III/IV missiles with range of 3500km to 4500km , and has been in key focus after successful testing of K-15, another missile known as K-5 SLBM again alleged to be based on Agni-V is also under consideration and development will start after Agni-V development is completed .

Next Major thing after Agni-V , might be another Missile coming from Agni Family , that will be Agni-VI , DRDO News letter of May 2011 had hinted about Agni- VI , Some reports claimed that the ICBM is already named “Surya” and code named AGNI-VI, but no confirmation has been put forward by DRDO , but DRDO news letter mentioned that Shri Avinash Chander, current development head of Agni-IV and Agni- V will head three projects and third Project mentioned was 6000 km A6 system with multiple warheads (MIRV) capable of launching both from the ground and underwater.
So immediate goal is to get this single payload version of A5 proofed and inducted.
Next is the MIRV version of A5.
After that the A6 version which is purely MIRV.

On the submarine front
K-15 short range aka Agni 1 class vehicle
K-4 medium range aka Agni 3/4 class vehicle
K-5 longer range A5 class vehicle



One thing is if anyone noted the PRC spokesman pointing out difficulties with Indian IGMP etc shows they are in denial of what they did to degrade Indian security by proliferating to TSP.
To make them careful the A5 unitary payload needs to be demonstrated. There is no other alternative.

Time is coming up as A5 will be inducted in a year or so.

vdutta, that picture with the vented interstages is an artist extrapolation of A3 type technology. A4 already showed DRDO had dispensed with /moved on beyond the vented interstage design.

So no worry.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_20317 »

gakakkad wrote:
abhijitm wrote:Me think Agni 5 deserves a unique name. If DRDO doesn't name it then BRF should have our own name, like Rambha & Katrina. But this beast's name should be masculine :)

how about singha ? :rotfl: 5000km + is a long range..why not name it after BRs great marathoner ?
Singha is good, takes you to the outrageously masculine protagonist 'Singham'.

'Bum Bole', came to my mind.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Murugan »

Mahakaal
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Vipul »

Production of Agni-V to begin in a year: DRDO chief.

India has emerged as a major missile power with the successful launch of Agni-V ballistic missile and the production of the weapon system would start in a year’s time, DRDO chief, Dr V.K. Saraswat, has said.

“This launch has given a message to the entire world that India has the capability to design, develop, build and manufacture missiles of this class, and we are today a missile power,” Dr Saraswat said today after the launch of the 5,000 km range surface-to-surface Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM).

The Defence Research and Development Organisation chief said that the missile launch was a major milestone in the defence preparedness of the country.

“We are going to conduct two more tests and that will be validation tests..., and then the production of this system will start. It is going to take a year maximum,” he said.

Dr Saraswat said that he expected the missile to be inducted into the armed forces in the next two years. He said the successful launch of Agni-V was just the beginning of a new series of missiles.

“We go from here to many other missiles which will have the capability for MIRV (Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle) for anti-satellite system, which will also be built using this technology for launching micro, mini and nano satellites to meet the requirement of the armed forces on very, very short notice,” he said.

Dr Saraswat said that barring some electronic components, the Agni-V was a completely indigenous product.

“More than 80 per cent of the missile is indigenous, except for the electronic components which we import...Everything has been designed, developed and produced in our industry and our laboratory,” he said.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Vipul »

Launch of Agni-V only the beginning of new series: DRDO chief.

India has emerged as a major missile power with the successful launch of Agni-V ballistic missile and the production of the weapon system would start in a year's time, DRDO chief VK Saraswat said on April 19."This launch has given a message to the entire world that India has the capability to design, develop, build and manufacture missiles of this class, and we are today a missile power," Saraswat said after the launch of the 5000 km range surface-to-surface Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM).

The Defence Research and Development Organisation chief said that the missile launch was a major milestone in the strategic defence preparedness of the country."We are going to conduct two more tests and that will be validation tests..., and then the production of this system will start. It is going to take an year maximum," he said.

Saraswat said that he expected the missile to be inducted into the armed forces in the next two years.

He said the successful launch of Agni-V was just the beginning of a new series of missiles."We go from here to many other missiles which will have capability for MIRV (Multiple Independently Targetable Re-entry Vehicle), for anti-satellite system, which will also be built using this technology for launching micro, mini and nano satellite to meet the requirement of the armed forces on very, very short notice," he said.

Saraswat said that barring some electronic components, the Agni-V was a completely indigenous product."More than 80% of the missile is indigenous, except for the electronic components which we import... Everything has been designed, developed and produced in our industry and our laboratory," he said.

The DRDO chief said that his organisation was working on a very tight time schedule when it came to production and deployment of the missile."We have a very tight time schedule on that. I expect that after the completion of its mandatory trials, it would be inducted in the services in the next two years to come. We have a very clear roadmap for development of missile system," Saraswat said.

Giving details of the launch, Saraswat said that the missile "lifted off at 0807 hours on Thursday. It is a three-stage missile, the first stage burned out, gave the required velocity and after that it separated."

Saraswat said that similarly the missile reached it second and third phases and after that it reached the crucial re-entry phase which is the most difficult phase for any ballistic missile of this range."All the re-entry conditions were perfect. The missile travelled through the re-entry, got converted into a fireball and finally (hit the target).....and all the payload parameters which result in the detonation of the warhead took place," Saraswat said.

The DRDO chief said that the launch was monitored by three ships deployed in Indian Ocean, 5000 kilometers away, and radars were also there tracking the complete trajectory.

Saraswat said that that the launch of the missile despite regimes placed by the developed world showed that India was becoming self-reliant in missile technology."The missile has been achieved despite the stringent missile control regimes, which developed countries have imposed on us and that shows the self-reliance in the area of this technology is now becoming a reality," he said.

The DRDO chief also said that India had made a lot of progress in missile technology following which it was no longer susceptible to blackmail by others. On how indigenous technology had contributed to the launch of Agni-V, Saraswat said that most of the components like rocket motors and propellants had been made within the country. It is 80% indigenous, he said.

"When I said 80 per cent, the propelling system, the rocket motors, the composite rocket motors, the propellants, the control system elements, onboard computers, mission computers, all these softwares, complete mission softwares are part of indigenous development exercise," he said."That gives us the required strength that nobody can now blackmail us as far as this technology is concerned," he said.

"Today we have the capability because our electronics, our navigation systems are highly miniaturised. We have developed a system on chip (such) that complete missile electronics can be resident on a single chip," he said.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ShauryaT »

Singha wrote:the A2 RV has been a finned MARV for a long time now. there are only four more major milestones to cross
- MIRV (3+ warhead in ogival nose)
- cansister launch
- 1st stage composite casing
- putting together all these techs for a deployed SLBM K4 on Arihant class
We have one more. We have to get to a more slower but more intense burning solid fuel. Cannot make the missile longer or add a 4th stage for a true ICBM.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by abhijitm »

Murugan wrote:Mahakaal
Jallad? Mogambo? :lol:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

ShauryaT wrote:
Singha wrote:the A2 RV has been a finned MARV for a long time now. there are only four more major milestones to cross
- MIRV (3+ warhead in ogival nose)
- cansister launch
- 1st stage composite casing
- putting together all these techs for a deployed SLBM K4 on Arihant class
We have one more. We have to get to a more slower but more intense burning solid fuel. Cannot make the missile longer or add a 4th stage for a true ICBM.
Changing to a composite case for the 1st stage, the largest stage, will also provide the largest weight savings. 4th stage will be easy after that.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by lakshmikanth »

Genghis :D
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

ramana wrote:Acharya, PRC has other challeges for their stuff. India doesn't have to match that game. One big BGRV to deliver a tonne of good wishes in their lap will do. Sort of Jaydrath vadh.
You got that right.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Vipul wrote:Launch of Agni-V only the beginning of new series: DRDO chief.
"Today we have the capability because our electronics, our navigation systems are highly miniaturised. We have developed a system on chip (such) that complete missile electronics can be resident on a single chip," he said.
My favorite part, whether we have a rose or a sunflower, for the petals I mean.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Call the A5, Tessy.

Atleast on BRF lets call the A5 Tessy in honor of the design lead who came back from the brink.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by vina »

Hmm. Lets see. This Agni III and Agni V have similar sizes (dia, lenght and weight), but Agni V has a higher range (for similar throw weight?).
What is the secret here. Well, composite case motor and splitting the second stage of AIII into two (the second and a miniaturized 3rd stage) did the trick . So looks like the range differential is due to efficiency gains.

But all the same, I do think that the MIRV versions will see a different 3rd stage (the conventional cylindrical one) and a blunt nose shield ..The missile as it is, is too expensive and does not deliver enough bang for the buck with a single warhead. Bare min would be around 5 warheads to make sure the missiles surviving a first strike inflict unacceptable damage.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by abhijitm »

ramana wrote:Call the A5, Tessy.

Atleast on BRF lets call the A5 Tessy in honor of the design lead who came back from the brink.
aapne mere muh ki baat chhin lee. I was thinking 'Thomas' but Tessy is much better. Sounds darling :)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

^nice.

--
on the wishlist, and needs to be done,, is something that would have to be kept soooo secret. that must be done in outter space.. we can package it and send it for a long distance journey.. like I said few pages back., and then the probe-stage separates out and issues a command and relay back to earth. no complaints, and only some deep-space mission controls needs to be established ahead.

starwars-ng.
[onlee praablam is it will not be allowed to leave earth - if we can send a man mission to moon, we use the moon-maal-h3]
Last edited by SaiK on 19 Apr 2012 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Suraj »

Congratulations to DRDO and all concerned! Clearly shows their level of confidence to reveal so much prior to a first launch, and then conduct it flawlessly.

I was more interested in interpreting responses from various quarters, knowing the DRDO would do a good job of this, which they did. The tone and tenor of responses are very noticeable. The west clearly has no bone with this launch. They just wish that we understate range and motive sufficiently as to focus our intent upon the right party, i.e. PRC. The Japanese are completely silent, not lecturing. The rest of the PacRim/ASEAN clearly see this positively. The Pakis know this missile has about 4500kms too much range for whatever we need to hit there. Even the Aussie mini-mes are essentially quiet, even though the splashdown spot is nearer to them than us.

The Chinese reaction is the most interesting one. The first one prior to the launch, if laughably amateurish in its belligerence, demonstrates high emotion instead of the typically taciturn way their communiques sound . The second one after the launch is part conciliatory and part nitpicking. Clearly they have noticed that they are alone in their condemnation - like the guy who lustily raises his hand in the audience and turns around to see that no one else raised theirs, causing them to recalibrate what they'd otherwise say. Interesting times.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ MKB is on TimesNow and doing some amazing verbal gymnastics to defend Chinese statements...

He says we are immature and are mistaking a innocent, mature reaction from China!!!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Tessy along with Kalam should look at other aerospace issues clogging us up -- that needs more precision real-time engineering actually.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by juvva »

nits wrote:What is that bird thing on left side while missing is getting launched ?
Looks like a pretty big bird, a foolish bird, and propably a fried bird.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Vina, You know how to do mass fraction and stage mass ration calcs from UG in the Madrasa. Its the mass fractions that do the trick.
The conical motor is brilliant solution to the double problem of range and stability margin.
I wonder if the designer could be from the madrasa!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Saving the images for posterity's sake.

Hindustan Times: Agni-V scripts long-range success
Image Image
Image Image
Image
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by D Roy »

Yeah, I'll second the Naamkaran proposed by Ramana.

On a different note, that whole DF-41 = 12 warheads = 15000 km is ultra bull.


the only ICBMs that China operates with that 15000 km range are the old and very large silo based DF-5s that require an hour to refuel and need a freaking launch campaign really. What is interesting is that the DF-5 was an acceptable "deterrent" to China during the main years of the Sino-Soviet standoff and indeed as a fall back option if the Nixon-Deng compact did not go as planned.

One more thing, very large liquid fuelled ICBMs typically manage the kind of performance Chinese posters are trying to attribute to the DF-41. A prime example would of course be the various SS-18 Satan mods.

I betcha that China will not come up with a road mobile solid fueled ICBM with those stats.
Last edited by D Roy on 19 Apr 2012 21:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

abhijitm, A star is born and we need to recongize that. On BRF, MKI is called Rambha and Raffy is called Katrina.

Lets name A5 the Tessy.

Suraj, Here is google link to all the ~ 1250 stories and counting about the A5 test and reactions!

Google News on A5 Test reactions
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

Can someone tweet the A5 name as Tessy and spread it around?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by abhijitm »

Absolutely, three cheers to The Tessy!
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