Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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SaiK
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Jhujar wrote: it was right in saying that if it really wants to become a great nation, each of its families should have a toilet first."
having a setup that ridicules other nations, must ensure all toilet excretions are not fed back to human beings, by way of fertilizers. poor chinese are made to eat their own cr@p.

Day is not far for all poor to earn at least $2 per day.
Lilo
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Lilo »

^^It's a cultural thing in entire fareast - the Japanese and Koreans too do it. Contributes to the super high yields achieved from intensive cultivation of paddyfields especially in terraces (eg Japanese).

Just saying.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by harbans »

There is a figure of about 480 Million USD being bandied as the cost of the missile on some sites. I don't know where it has come from. Any ideas?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

See those states that depend on victim mentality are forced to lie to their people and put down others for their candle burns brighter when others are dimmed.

All along PRC was pretending to be a shining light because there was no others to compare to. And recall they got so much help from US to manage their rise in Asia all along after the Cold War was over.

Yet they proliferated nukes to TSP and gave them M-9s and M11s and further allowed NoKo to transfer, Ding Dongs to tie India up in a local mess and get dimmed.

No one looks more foolish then the dingbats who lead Chuahina now.

-------------
harbans, It could be total program development cost with R&D, fab facilities and the first flight $480M is cheap for a strategic missile like the Tessy.
Massa would love to have that for that price!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_22872 »

Harbans ji it is the total cost of missile development.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni-V#section_1
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

If china really wants to play like a big power with all those big missiles, it needs to make sure each adult has a vote. Otherwise it is only an overgrown North Korea.

China knows that is what white people really think.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by kasthuri »

ramana wrote: Kasthuri, I don't know which old coot Chacko was talking to. The RLG and MNGS accuracy is not range related. They don't drift with distance! Its new generation guidance not mechanical spinning gyros where the friction causes the gyros to drift and error to accumulate with distance!!! No friction/viction its all light and mirrors.
MNGS works using MEM sensors to back the RLG. MEMs are solid state inertial sensors and rate gyros where again there is no friction caused drift.

As I said before A5 is not "Your grandfathers Oldsmobile!" as the ad goes.

Thanks for expressing your concern for I could answer it!
Thanks for explaining this, ramana! I am sure this would help lots of folks who had this question.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

I recently posted, for the record, a story about Chinese enjoying eggs boiled in urine. When china speaks of excreta, they know of what they speak. Indians should listen.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Lilo »

I think chakoji is sneeringly referring to Eric Margolis as the cold war old coot. His immense khujli takleef at Agni5 success was self evident in his latest farticle.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kanishka »

There are some articles published in some Firangi newspapers quoting Indian "defence experts" casting doubts on the success of the A5 missile.

"We know it has taken off but cannot be sure where it has landed" kind of story.

I hope DRDO releases the re-entry/impact video in their own time provided of course there is no security risk.


On another note: who would have thought one can use one's own sh** as a fertilizer. My garden really needs some TLC and I am going to try that. Hope Google chacha is not watching while I am doing my thing :lol: .
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by shiv »

Kanishka wrote:
I hope DRDO releases the re-entry/impact video in their own time provided of course there is no security risk.
No. In fact that would give an indicator to the moronic "high hopes" detractors that their criticism is working and that you need to prove things to them. As soon as they see the video they will call it fake. The right response is not to react.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Lilo »

Kanishka wrote:There are some articles published in some Firangi newspapers quoting Indian "defence experts" casting doubts on the success of the A5 missile.
Kji,
Please share the links to those stories.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rahul Bedi(of JDW) is one of those.
Last edited by Lilo on 22 Apr 2012 06:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by rajrang »

ramana wrote:
Also did anyone notice the Chinese talking about lack of toilets in India!!!
Yes - this is China's way of deflecting the attention and respect of the world away from India's successful missile launch to one of India's unfortunate failings. They do not want India's image and prestige in the world to go up.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kanishka »

Lilo wrote:
Kanishka wrote:There are some articles published in some Firangi newspapers quoting Indian "defence experts" casting doubts on the success of the A5 missile.
Kji,
Please share the links to those stories.
Lilo Ji I read it in the print edition of either Sydney Morning Herald or Melbourne Age while traveling.
Will google and post the online links.

Not rahul bedi of jdw. Some Gupta or mehta cant remember exactly.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... ff9063.761
It was AFP news agency and published in some OZ newspapers.
But commentator Manoj Joshi, writing in the Mail Today, said India should not take the claims of success at face value from the defence establishment.

"These are all meaningless and needlessly boastful claims," he wrote, referring to comments from officials on Thursday about the Agni V being a"game changer and a technological marvel".

"As of now all we know independently is that the missile did take off. Where it landed is of course a secret," he explained.
Last edited by Kanishka on 22 Apr 2012 06:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by tejas »

That POS article by Eric Margolis was laughable. In addition to making up his own personal definition of what an ICBM is, bemoans the lack of knowledge of defense reporters! A SRDE does make a comment on the RV reaching a speed of Mach 24 refuting him but correlating RV velocity with missile range would be too objective besides being beyond the comprehension of buffoons like this. My dream is that POK III will occur while the Chinese premier is visiting India and hopefully SlicK Willie is on an official visit as well :twisted:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Surya »

Manor joshi desperately trying to stay relevant in the days if Tarmak007 and broadsword
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kanson »

ramana wrote:Kanson, I really don't know what your point is? Why this obtuseness? Please state what you want. And will be glad to know and learn.
??
“ We had an excellent mission, meeting all objectives from lift-off to impact. Three stages of guidance which were new could meet the mission objectives fully
It is silly to interpret the above as third stage or fourth stage guidance as it depreciate the real meaning of that message. My resourcefulness will be to emphasize the correct message brought forward.


ramana wrote:My point is that A5 third stage requires a new guidance and control which was not there earlier. Yes the modules or code could be similar to earlier stages but till its simulated and flight proofed its always touch and go even for advanced nations. And hence this one is an achievement.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

I once talked to a close relative of Manoj Joshi. He said MJ is a commie that never grew up even after making money. So take his comments as being on par with Prafool Bidwai or Achin Vanayak!

A long time ago he used to write in India Today and used to seem to be astute. Maybe all lifafas or pudiyan.

Kasthuri,, you are welcome and can be rest assured that its what I said about RLG and MNGS. You can take it to bank and tell your circle.

Saik, Thomas Carlyle said of one of his critics"Sitting in gutter and adding to it!" Looks like it applies to PRC right now.

Kanishka, The reason Ozzies are so curious is that in Caroe's "circles of power" they are in one of the circles with India. Unfortunately India doesnt think so.
Some of them have been supporting TSP like Lt Gen Cawthorne the founder of ISI after 1948 J&K debacle. Now they realize they were backing wrong mule. So unko maaf karo do.
I do like Rory Medcalf who worries that Ozzies will get crushed between PRC and India if things get out of hand.

Kanson, Thanks. You can have your view and I mine.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Philip »

Russia for several decades has been trying to promote an Indo-Sino rapproachment and the full potential of the BRICS group being achieved.Will the success of A-V make the PRC now acknowledge that its past "superiority" in the military/strategic balance has now been significantly eroded and will this see a change in the attitude of the PRC....or will it go the whole hog in the opp. direction and further arm Pak as its western "army" to contain India ?

Xcpt: from the Russian viewpoint posted above.
Who’s your friend?
It is assumed that India’s failed war against China in 1962 and the loss of an uninhabited glacier in the Himalayas is a major problem that makes these two key international partners of Russia bitter enemies. If this were the case, then the launch of the Agni would spell real drama for Russian foreign policy.
Let’s keep in mind that Russia is India’s key partner in the area of armaments. This month Russia supplied to India the nuclear submarine Nerpa aka Chakra for a long-term lease. By late 2012, India will at long last receive the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov aka Vikramaditya. There’s a whole list of armaments that Russia is either selling to India or designing together with India. If Beijing viewed India similar to the way Japan looks upon North Korea… And if India saw China – which, by the way, became Delhi’s first trading partner – as a source of permanent threat…
Things are different in reality, though. The foreign ministers of Russia, India and China (RIC) met this month. As it turns out, the original triangle of this group exists as a separate entity despite its expansion to include Brazil and South Africa (BRICS). And the three have more and more reasons for private meetings. Among other things, an important topic for discussion is coordinating efforts in Afghanistan once the U.S. and NATO forces withdraw. The problem is that the spread of jihad policies in Afghanistan represents a direct threat to northwestern China. As a result, Beijing and Delhi now have more reasons for rapprochement and Moscow has long been a willing intermediary.
As for nuclear arsenals and their delivery vehicles, even with an enhanced strike range, they do not interfere with such efforts. On the contrary, they are a source of calm for the partners in their complicated relations with each other.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

Folks:

Tessy Thomas should not be called "Agni Putri".

I think she should be called "Agni Matri". :)

Also, Dr. Kalam is the "Bhishma Pitamah" of India's strategic deterrence. After all he, a lifelong bachelor, has nurtured the nuclear and missile programs, and mentored the scientists who are now playing the key roles in these programs.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

perhaps the chinese should improve their own habits before filing toilet reports?

per a close relative of mine just back from pandaland, its quite common for people to spit, throw nose ghee on the road and also do SuSu on the roadside ... no better or worse than India in that regard...but among the shiny showpiece infra it looks even more jarring than it does here.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

They must have completed the data crunch from A5 flight by now.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by gakakkad »

Kanishka wrote:There are some articles published in some Firangi newspapers quoting Indian "defence experts" casting doubts on the success of the A5 missile.

"We know it has taken off but cannot be sure where it has landed" kind of story.

I hope DRDO releases the re-entry/impact video in their own time provided of course there is no security risk.


On another note: who would have thought one can use one's own sh** as a fertilizer. My garden really needs some TLC and I am going to try that. Hope Google chacha is not watching while I am doing my thing :lol: .
those defence experts include people like brafull buttwhy .. Someone here posted a CNN-IBN link in which Rajdeep invited BK along with these unworthies.. I mean who the hell is prafool bidwai to comment on missiles ?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by gakakkad »

Singha wrote:perhaps the chinese should improve their own habits before filing toilet reports?

per a close relative of mine just back from pandaland, its quite common for people to spit, throw nose ghee on the road and also do SuSu on the roadside ... no better or worse than India in that regard...but among the shiny showpiece infra it looks even more jarring than it does here.

no wonder people from HK are always specific when we ask them where they are from..they always say HK..never prc...never china..
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by tejas »

Profool is useless no matter what he comments on. No matter how complex the issue happens to be, it is easy to pick a principled and intelligent stance-- just take the opposite of what this imbecile says. He should be dropped off the top of the Eiffel tower with various sensors attached to prove to young students that theory of terminal velocity is indeed true. His answer to every problem is for India to unilaterally disarm. He truly loves poor people too. If India followed policies he suggests we would definitely have the most poor people in the world for eternity. How does India produce people like this?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

well.. suddenly I woke up to consider chinese criticism on our poor on the constructive side.. just this one alone. then, I realized an MMS mission statement to make र25 per hour as min wage std.. would have taken political mileage on the issue (though reactive to external force). But, I am off different thinker with least ego towards poorness.

I think accept the fact, and ask them to face Tessy rather. It is a double whammy for us in the long run.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Austin »

ramana wrote:What can be done is shoot down an obsolete ISRO satellite as it runs out of fuel and deorbits posing a problem for other space craft.
We can de-orbit an old almost end of life satellite to LEO and then shoot it out , or just launch a minimalist test micro sat in LEO and after it does it job , we can shoot it down , the debris wont be long there and that should take care of debris mess
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

ramana wrote:----
chackojoseph wrote:Agni - 5 range problem :D----

Seriously, is there a way to increase the accuracy other than by increasing the payload? Can the guidance systems be made more reliable?

Kasthuri, I don't know which old coot Chacko was talking to. The RLG and MNGS accuracy is not range related. They don't drift with distance! Its new generation guidance not mechanical spinning gyros where the friction causes the gyros to drift and error to accumulate with distance!!! No friction/viction its all light and mirrors.
MNGS works using MEM sensors to back the RLG. MEMs are solid state inertial sensors and rate gyros where again there is no friction caused drift.

As I said before A5 is not "Your grandfathers Oldsmobile!" as the ad goes.

Thanks for expressing your concern for I could answer it!
You are right. Hence I pointed out that it has been tested for 5000 kms and it is true for 5000 kms. Anything beyond that is all theory unless we test it and validate it. The word was 'confidence range' and does not speak about technical parameters.
Lilo wrote:I think chakoji is sneeringly referring to Eric Margolis as the cold war old coot. His immense khujli takleef at Agni5 success was self evident in his latest farticle.
:wink:
tejas wrote:That POS article by Eric Margolis was laughable. In addition to making up his own personal definition of what an ICBM is, bemoans the lack of knowledge of defense reporters!
After all that knowledge he attempted to display, please see what is the range of K-15 he quoted. he claims its 7500 kms, so much for his political correctness. :lol: Normally, anyone else i wouldn't have picked on, but Eric mar - Golis :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

ASAT pgm should be targeted at 500-700km sats because most of the IMINT/COMINT type sats occupy that perch. GPS sats are at 20,000km...which are likely out of reach for any current ASAT program?

often they have elliptic orbits, like dipping down to 300km over the target country, while other end of ellipse is 1000km above the earth. some have circular orbits.

in any case, if we can take down anything upto around 1000km height, we can take down any of these critters, regardless of their mission or orbital shapes.

HTK using some form of imaging is one option , but in cold blackness of space, with one side of the satellite hot and one side cold it may not work so well. radar is one option that will work....and can trigger a small charge to release a cloud of 1000s of ball bearings say in a circle of 200m diameter which will ensure even a near miss by kill vehicle will be fatal.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Agni V tested only for 5,000 km range
COIMBATORE: Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) R&D Chief Controller A Sivathanu Pillai on Saturday made it clear that the Agni-V, India’s first Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICMB), was tested only for a range of 5,000 km and not beyond at the Wheeler Island in Odisha on Thursday last.

At an informal interaction with journalists, when asked Pillai about China’s claim that the Agni V missile could reach targets in Europe up to a range of 8,000 kms, he said “Agni V has been tested for a range of 5,000 km. Further, extending the range or even testing the capability for an extended range will be considered only after political and diplomatic deliberations.

To a question on China’s pronouncement that India would stand no chance in an overall arms race with her neighbour, Pillai said: “I am not a diplomat to retaliate to what China has said. But I assure that we are self-reliant in the guided weapon system.”

Pillai, who is also the founder CEO of the BrahMos Aerospace, a unit of the DRDO which is developing a stealth cruise missile that can steep-dive vertically at the target at supersonic speeds, said the third stage of BrahMos (Block III) test has given desired results in incorporating precision for high manoeuvres at multiple points when it is developed eventually.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by gakakkad »

I am not to sure if it would be feasible to take down a salettite in geostationary orbit using raakit .. Imagine the mass of fuel needed per launch .. you would literally need a heavy launch vehicle just to take out a gps sat...It might be more prudent to use some sort of signal jammers or lasers or something... raakit will be too expensive ...
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Singha wrote:ASAT pgm should be targeted at 500-700km sats because most of the IMINT/COMINT type sats occupy that perch. GPS sats are at 20,000km...which are likely out of reach for any current ASAT program?

often they have elliptic orbits, like dipping down to 300km over the target country, while other end of ellipse is 1000km above the earth. some have circular orbits.

in any case, if we can take down anything upto around 1000km height, we can take down any of these critters, regardless of their mission or orbital shapes.

HTK using some form of imaging is one option , but in cold blackness of space, with one side of the satellite hot and one side cold it may not work so well. radar is one option that will work....and can trigger a small charge to release a cloud of 1000s of ball bearings say in a circle of 200m diameter which will ensure even a near miss by kill vehicle will be fatal.
A4 was tested with an apogee of 900+ km with a decent payload on a lofted ballistic trajectory. If it is sent straight up, it will go further.

Why not send up a payload that latches on to the sat and fires its own engine to de-orbit the sat? Thinking out loud.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by svinayak »

Experts said the “Agni -5 or cooling for the India-US relations

http://www.cnmilitary.info/experts-said ... relations/
April 20th, 2012 admin

According to media reports, “Agni-5 missile has a range of over 5000 km, the portability of nuclear warheads. After the successful launch of India into the the ICBMs club. More interesting, “Agni -5 against the range can not only cover the whole of China, and can cover the whole of Asia and half of Europe. Du Wenlong, researcher of the Chinese Academy of Military Sciences, said in an interview with reporters, the missile technology upgrading in India a threat to the United States European allies and their military bases in Asia, the challenges to U.S. strategic advantage, but also to the eastward shift of the U.S. military strategy containment.
reported, according to People
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Amitabh »

Suraj wrote:Their concern is not with the missile. It's the attitude of the other powers that galls them. There's not a single country of any significance that has come out with a condemnatory statement of any kind. Even the Americans sounded about as positive about it as the Russians. The Europeans, through the NATO chief's statement, essentially stated that they don't care. Not a peep from MERCOSUR, ASEAN, Japan or Australia. In fact all the news outlets explicitly stated that the missile targets China.

The clearest statement of rising power is overt accommodation. With this test, we received that. To me, that is the single most important feature of this test. These are actions that we are now expected to do, not things that were 'beyond our standing' which outraged others and resulted in 'know your place' statements like in 1998. That era is over.
I agree. Most commentators think Agni V is (yet another) attempt to get a seat at the high table. The test actually shows that India is already at the high table.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Agni, Mrs G’s wish fulfilled: India’s missile man
Dr V.S. Arunachalam (Former Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister of India)
The caption of this piece should actually read 'mission accomplished' but for the bloomer President George Bush made in 2003 when he claimed victory well before the skirmishes in Iraq died down! But the missile story is really one of accomplishment of a mission that DRDO embarked three decades back.

In 1982, DRDO embarked on a major transformation transitioning from working on minor innovations that brought in no recognition, to major hardware development. A portfolio of missiles, Light Combat Aircraft, main battle tanks are the products of this transformation. There were also a few more top secret projects.

It was an audacious move when we were not even sure whether we had the competence and wherewithal to execute the programmes. But then we recognized that if we did not cash in on the opportunity that the political leadership, most notably the Defence minister Venkataraman and Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, provided we would have lost a window of opportunity to become a self reliant nation in military technologies.

We took our proposals to Cabinet Committee on Political Affairs for the sanction. For the missile programme, we chose four projects, two surface-to-air (Trishul, Akash) missiles, one a short range tactical missile (Prithvi) and the last one was an anti-tank missile (Nag). We took a deliberate decision not to propose a long range missile as a hardware project.

Instead, it was going to be a technology demonstrator where we would develop a number of technologies that go into the making of ICBM.

When Mrs Gandhi was curious to find out what technologies we were not confident of, I replied, “every subsystem”! She smiled saying that she was happy to hear at least once, an acceptance of ignorance, but wanted us to build the advanced systems that could stand in competition with other countries’ hardware. She said that she was tired of buying military systems from other countries that were not willing to either sell state-of-the-art systems or share the technology know-how.

Even before that approval we were quietly circulating photographs of long range missile models to people at South Block. The photographs of the models were impressive and I suspect either Arun Singh or Rajiv Gandhi had seen the designs and photographs and briefed the PM of our audacious aspirations!

Our programmes began in the frostiest years of Cold War. Even the import of desk-top computers with some special features invited export clearances and bureaucratic oversight. Quoted products suddenly vanished from supply. Attendance at technical conferences was denied. But we persisted forming a consortium approach where all the nation’s laboratories and industries became our technology partners. With the firing of Agni-5, DRDO has arrived developing all the technologies, the wish that Mrs Gandhi expressed many years ago.

A guided missile is a conglomerate of thousands of complex technologies. Complex technologies are primed to perform a well defined activity efficiently and reliably.

Unfortunately, if they fall short of performance, the results can be failures, often with unacceptable consequences. Reliability is therefore all too critical. In Agni-5 we used solid propellant in all three stages and with a guidance system using ring lasers along with strap down inertial navigation system. Ring laser gyro is considered most efficient and accurate for detecting angular rotation and enables stabilization. It was used even during the testing of Agni-3, but this time it provided the extra redundancy that has enabled the accuracy of trajectory and stability of the guidance system.

The terminal system used carbon-carbon compositesfor the structure that could withstand the burning reentry temperatures keeping the payload cool. In addition to very high temperatures, the missile in its terminal phase would experience very high acceleration due to free fall known as the g force that can break any poorly built system. The results show that while impacting at the designated area, the missile successfully withstood both the re-entry temperatures and very high g force.

Agni-5 has proved and validated solid propulsion system, stage separation, accurate guidance and met the range requirements.

Actually, we have done slightly better than China in the sense that some of Chinese ICBMs ( DF-5) for instance, are liquid fueled with its attendant disadvantages.

We learnt the tricks of the trade with no past to educate us through. And the investments we have made in all these technology are modest. Now we have learned how to develop and build new systems faster than in the past. But by delaying the sanction of new projects, I fear we will lose the corporate memory and the experiences of precious human resource. It is this human resource that has brought us this far. And the country salutes them for the competence and commitment it brought into the programme.

DRDO may fire a few more missiles to prove their reliability in performance. When it comes to strategic systems it is not necessary to manufacture hundreds. A handful will do as they carry nuclear weapons that can inflict unacceptable damage on adversaries.

Even a single 10 kilo ton bomb, within 0.8 km radius of a city would completely wipe out the population in that area. In a medium city with a population of a few lakhs, about 50,000 people would die with unacceptable radiation inflicted injuries. Strategic deterrence that would prevent unilateral nuclear attacks is therefore necessary.

With a successful test, Agni-5 has ensured this security for India.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

The misile shield
Wing Commander (Retd) Ajay Lele is a Research Fellow, IDSA
On 19th April 2012, India launched an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) that traversed a distance of more than 5,000 km and announced to the international community that it had arrived.

The Agni-5 missile is meant to deliver nuclear warheads on to their targets and in accomplishing all the mission parameters successfully as envisaged by the scientists in the first test itself, the professionalism of India’s scientific community was beyond debate, placing India into the coveted club of the handful of nations that have the capability to launch ICBMs. Watched keenly by many in the world because the presence of such missiles significantly enhances the stature of India’s nuclear deterrence mechanism, the next step will see India conduct similar tests to declare the missile fully operational. By 2014-15 this missile - and India - will be ‘battle-ready’.

The Agni series of missiles should be viewed as a part of India’s “Minimum Credible Deterrence” policy. As a Nuclear Weapon State, India must have a suitable delivery mechanism for such weapons. India’s investments in the missile arena need to be looked at, against this backdrop. It is important to note that India is not the follower of the policy of mutually assured destruction (MAD), no votary of total and irrevocable destruction.

A nuclear triad
After the 1998 Pokhran nuclear tests it has been India’s endeavour to develop a nuclear triad. Simply possession of nuclear weapons has no meaning unless and until a mechanism to deliver these weapons on the targets of choice exists. A nuclear triad involves development of such delivery mechanisms. Such mechanisms include land based, air based and submarine based platforms and they constitute of ICBMs, strategic bombers and submarine launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs).

Particularly, since India has a policy of no first use (NFU) in regards to its nuclear weapons hence it becomes extremely important to acquire nuclear triad to enhance the credibility of India’s second strike in case India has been first attacked by the nuclear weapon. It is important to analyse this success of Agni-5 at three levels: technological gains, military advantages and strategic benefits.

DRDO has a well-established missile programme which was conceptualized during 1983. DRDO first mastered the art of developing short range missiles, the Prithvi series of missiles (150km to 300km) and now concentrating on Agni series. Before this test DRDO had proved its capability to launch missiles up to a distance of 3500km (Agni 4). Now, proving its worth by launching an ICBM it could be safely said that DRDO has mastered the art of ‘Rocket Science’. Apart from proving the worth of their missile expertise DRDO has also tested other technologies and techniques during this test successfully. Such technologies would have relevance for other defence related projects too.

DRDO has established a network of defence radars and ships for the purpose of tracking this missile. Such networks have utility in few other arenas of defence too, and could be modified from the point of view of developing architecture for Space Situational Awareness. Success of this test has proved that new technologies developed by DRDO like ring laser gyroscope and accelerometer, important for the purposes of navigation and guidance, have worked perfectly.

This test has proved the worth of composites used for the purpose of weight reduction of the rocket. Also, the re-entry of Agni-5 successfully into the earth’s atmosphere by withstanding thousands to degrees of temperature indicates that the ‘thermal shield’ has worked beautifully.

Strategic edge
From the point of view of the military, it’s important to note that India’s nuclear programme is a strategic programme and the role of air force and navy is more about remaining prepared for delivering the nuclear warheads and always remain in state of readiness. There has to be a constant interaction amongst the scientific community, the military and the policy makers to carry forward the country’s nuclear deterrence agenda.

In the strategic realm, such weapons are designed and developed for deterrence purposes. It would be incorrect to believe that such weapons offer solutions to all security related problems. A country like India needs to remain prepared by developing its conventional defences as well as strategic defences and the success of Agni-5 needs to be viewed in that context.

Success with technology is only one part of realizing strategic objectives. Today, India has two nuclear neighbours having proven missile capabilities to satisfy their security needs. Naturally, to bring in the strategic stability in the region it is important for India to arm itself with sufficient military hardware to address these challenges.

At the same time it is important for India, not to get unnecessarily drawn into any arms race scenario. China has been armed with ICBMs for many years which could reach almost the double distance than India (around 12,000 km range). However, what is important for India is not to match China in terms of range or numbers. Based on one’s own assessment of the security threats to the country India needs to develop its defences. Agni-5 should be viewed as a step in that direction.

From the strategic standpoint India also needs to further develop the Agni-V to feature Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs) capability. Such capability of carrying 2-10 separate nuclear warheads which could engage different targets, separated by some distance could help to ensure a credible second strike capability even with few missiles because only one rocket firing could help India to engage multiple targets almost simultaneously. Also, there exists a necessity to develop the SLBM programme further to complete the deterrence mechanism.

China-centric
It is expected that success of Agni-5 would create some discomfort for Pakistan and China. Particularly, this missile is being viewed by many as China-centric and media has reported certain adverse reactions by few Chinese agencies. Chinese reactions are on expected lines and it is obvious that China would be uncomfortable because India finished their monopoly in the region. Today, Agni-5 has made it possible for India to strike anywhere in Asia and even almost 80% of Europe is within the striking range. This adds value to India’s deterrence mechanism.

However, it is important to note that reinforcement of deterrence remains a dynamic process. India needs to constantly calibrate its deterrence mechanism based on its perceived threat perceptions and undertaking cost-benefit analysis for strategic investments.

Firepower
* The Prithvi-I, II and III short-range nuclear-capable surface-to-surface ballistic missiles have a range of 150, 250 and 350 kms respectively and have been inducted into the armed forces. Prithvi-I is the Army version, Prithvi-II is the IAF version and Prithvi-III (Dhanush) is the naval version launched from ships. Prithvi was developed keeping in mind the threat perception from Pakistan.

* Defence (BMD) missiles: These are being currently tested to intercept and destroy incoming ballistic missiles both within and outside the Earth’s atmosphere. The objective is to establish a BMD shield to protect India from enemy ballistic missiles.

Agni-V : Tested successfully during its maiden launch on April 19, this LRBM with a range of 5,000 km can reach all parts of China including Beijing. Will provide a credible nuclear-capable deterrent against China. Expected to be inducted in 2014 after a few more validation trials.
pankajs
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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‘Not start of an arms’ race’
The long-range Agni-5 missile gives Indian armed forces the confidence that comes when you possess a weapon system which very few in the world have in their arsenal. It is of the greatest deterrence value, says former chief of the air staff air chief marshal (retired) Fali Homi Major told B.R. Srikanth.

What is the significance of test-firing of Agni-5 from the point of view of the armed forces?
With a 5,000 km-range missile, we have a credible and demonstrable strategic advantage. It is a very clear message to the world that we are in an elite league. It’s not like earlier when our capabilities were built to match those of our neighbours. It is of utmost deterrence value. For us (armed forces), it gives the confidence that we are in the possession of a weapon which very few in the world have.

How long will it take for induction, and what would be the ideal number of such missiles for the armed forces?
There’s no simple answer to the question on numbers. We don’t have to match our adversaries’ weapon for weapon. It’s deterrence that matters the most. The induction will take about three years or so, because some more trials must be carried out before operationalisation of the weapon system.

Do we have the infrastructure to store, transport and deploy such long-range missiles?
The greatest advantage is that this missile can be canisterised and transported with the help of normal infrastructure. So, our infrastructure should not be an issue for transportation and deployment of the missile.

Will all the three services get these missiles?
It’s a national capability, so it does not matter which wing has them. Perhaps, they will be deployed by the tri-services Strategic Forces Command.

Do you think that DRDO should develop variants for launch from the sea and air?
It is very early to talk about them, but I think we must develop the technology for sea-based variants.

Will test-firing of Agni-5 set off an arms race in our neighbourhood?
One should not fall into a trap of matching weapon-for-weapon. Each of us should have what we can afford.

Lastly, do you think that DRDO should develop longer range missiles?
If we have the capability to reach 5,000 KM, it means we can expand the range further. If the geopolitical situation requires, then we should have longer range missiles.
pankajs
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Agni-5 done, bumble bee next: Sundaram
Gone are the days when missiles like Prithvi, the first missile under the Integrated Guided Missile Programme, was test-fired 15 times before induction.

Agni-V will have no more than five tests, according to Lt. General v.j Sundaram (retd), widely considered as one of the pioneers of MAVs in the country.

“We had to test-fire Prithvi over and over again, because you need to be absolutely sure. Of course, there are things we didn’t know then that we know now, so we might get away with fewer runs before Agni-V is inducted”, he said.

The General also added, “If you get consistent results with five runs, then that’s all you need. But there’s no guarantee. We have launched 60 Prithvi missiles and something could still go wrong”.

The Agni-V is being touted as the game-changer for India’s guided missile programme. But the officer chose to say, “These are all such political terms, I don’t want to get into it. From a purely technical point of view, though, the Agni-V is a fine piece of engineering”.

Lt. General Sundaram, who delivered a talk at the Indian Institute of Science on Saturday, is presently adviser (Micro and Nano Systems) at the National Design and Research Forum, The Institution of Engineers, Bengaluru. He was also Director, DRDL, Hyderabad, and Project Director - Prithvi Missile.

Currently, he is focussed on Micro Air Vehicles, Micro-Nano-Bio Systems and the coalescence of biology and engineering.

“We are looking at building a bumble bee”, he said. The bumblebee sensor will have rhodopsin coated wings (to enable vision in low light) and compound eyes and quality control sensors.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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gakakkad wrote:I am not to sure if it would be feasible to take down a salettite in geostationary orbit using raakit .. Imagine the mass of fuel needed per launch .. you would literally need a heavy launch vehicle just to take out a gps sat...It might be more prudent to use some sort of signal jammers or lasers or something... raakit will be too expensive ...
lasers - space based kya, but powered by what?

Also a full mission heavy launch vehicle is itself a target. Cannot be fired in anger because it likely will be shot out before that which brings us to the option to station the payload (stockpile) in space with the Rocket launch not being in an anger mode.
pankajs
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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2 day old report
Agni-V test fire: Mission accomplished
It does not matter anymore whether it is 5,000km or 10,000km. Distances have fallen apart. The message to the world is that we have perfected technology and we have perfected all stages. It is just a matter of time before we achieve a greater range,” Padma Vibhushan Dr VS Arunachalam
“We have capitalised the ability to build them in modules. For Agni-V, we used first and second stages from Agni-III with incremental improvements in systems, so that more focus could be put on stage three. Agni-III had two motors whereas Agni-V has a third motor fitted into the missile’s nose,” said Natarajan. He said the third motor with a ‘peculiar design’ has been fitted into a ‘very small package’ without significantly increasing the length and diameter of the missile. “Therefore I say the skills in technology are ingenious,” he said.
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