Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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pankajs
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 22 Apr 2012 18:41

India all set to develop reusable rockets: DRDO chief
After the successful launch of Agni-V Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM), India is all set to develop reusable rockets which will combine the technologies of both ballistic and cruise missiles.

As part of plans to develop reusable ballistic missiles, Defence Research and Development Organisation will test indigenously developed scram jet engine next year, DRDO Chief VK Saraswat said in an interview to Doordarshan.

"We have propulsion technology, we have re-entry technologies, we have the technology which can take a re-entry system which will deliver a payload and have yet another re-entry system which will bring the missile back when it re-enters the atmosphere on its return journey," he said.

"We have demonstrated the performance of a scram jet engine operating at Mach six speed (six times the speed of sound)," he said.

On the range of Agni-V missile which was scuccessfully test-fired recently off Odisha coast, the DRDO chief said with moderate modifications, "it can be extended to any range which is of our interest."

On technological capability available with the agency, he said, "DRDO has built the necessary technologies, production infrastructure and design capability for developing a booster or a sustainer... We have the capability to develop a re-entry nose cone which can withstand higher temperature and velocity."

Added later: A later report has additional details.
India all set to develop reusable rockets: DRDO
Reacting to reports that India does not possess sufficient indigenous technology for missile guidance systems, Saraswat said Agni-V has used a completely indigenous and high precision missile guidance system with "0.001 degrees of per hour accuracy."

On criticism that DRDO sometimes does not live up to expectations, he said the agency was as good as its counterparts in advanced countries.

"Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), F-18 and Eurofighter took similar number of years and cost wise they were three times more than what we have put in our LCA," he said.

On development of Kaveri engine, Saraswat said it too has performed well and was, "flown an IL-76 aircraft in Russia, 55 hours of successful flight... We are going to upgrade it so that it can be used in India's LCA Mark-II and future systems."
Last edited by pankajs on 22 Apr 2012 19:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby arun » 22 Apr 2012 19:01

Question regards the road mobility of Agni V besides Agni IV.

Per MTCR Item 12 Category II Clause b, TEL’s cannot be transferred (MTCR).

So are there any indications of India developing a 16x16 or 24x24 TEL to haul the Agni V around :?:

A tractor-trailer articulated vehicle arrangement like the ones seen on Republic Day parades seems to me would compromise off road mobility though it may be said it could more easily navigate narrow roads.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 22 Apr 2012 20:24

Just watched V K Saraswat Interview snippet on DD News
His statements.

1. AGNI-V range can be easily extended to cover areas of our interest ( his exact words). We have all the in-house capabilities for Booster, sustainers ,third stage and re-entry vehicles.

2.Scramjet is tested by DRDO and further test would take place in 2013. It would power Cruise Missile which would also be a ballistic missile.

3. Missile Guidance System ( all components and sensors) are developed in-house and are world class. He announced that it has drift error of 0.001degree per hour ( if I heard correctly).

Full interview to be repeat telecast on Wednesday 6.30 PM. titled War and Peace.
Last edited by chaanakya on 23 Apr 2012 11:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Singha » 22 Apr 2012 20:58

wrt to the TELAR, I feel India will go for the more conventional DF31 type semi trailer arrangement, because we dont have millions of sq km of goat tracks to disappear into like Siberia....mostly they will be kept in military bases and drive out into highway system , with some pre surveyed sites along the ways.....the width and height of the beefy MAZ telars will also pose issues on Indic roads...you know simple stuff like telephone or cable tv wires strung casually across a road will need a guy with a bamboo pole to sit atop the cabin and keep an eye. some underpasses also have a lowish height clearance....I would expect just the A2 type truck with a cansister on it.

the A2 rail wagons with sliding roofs can no doubt also be used for cansister launch just like russians do.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Apr 2012 21:17

I was hoping our Missiles would be hidden under granite hills in Orissa, C'garh, Nallamalla hills, Western ghats etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 22 Apr 2012 21:23

Then they become vulnerable to tunnel entrances being blocked.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vasu_ray » 22 Apr 2012 21:26

for direct ascent ASAT they could always do a near collision fly by with a high speed camera pointed at it giving the perspective of closeness and beaming back the video live, the A-4 should do it, in a way its a precursor to a ground launched mid course interceptor

for GEO, they could send a small robot via GTO to dock with the Insat 4B to replace the faulty component that made it run at half power, Agni-5 is supposed to put 300kg in LEO, much less in GTO, so the payload of robot arm+new component+docker with thrusters for orbit adjustments and fuel maybe on the higher side of weight, high hopes, anyways its could be a ISRO experiment involving universities (Jugnu?) with the launcher and docker with thrusters (the kill vehicle) from DRDO

the whole thing is politically correct as well!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 22 Apr 2012 22:18

Another farticle!

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/india/120421/military-missile-china-arms-race

With far fewer troops and less powerful missiles, Pakistan gives its neighbors more headaches than India, and, arguably, extorts better treatment. The reason?


Man, I have not seen such a wide coverage for any Indian missile launch previously

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 22 Apr 2012 22:42

Aditya_V wrote:I was hoping our Missiles would be hidden under granite hills in Orissa, C'garh, Nallamalla hills, Western ghats etc.

Singha wrote:wrt to the TELAR, I feel India will go for the more conventional DF31 type semi trailer arrangement, because we dont have millions of sq km of goat tracks to disappear into like Siberia....mostly they will be kept in military bases and drive out into highway system , with some pre surveyed sites along the ways.....the width and height of the beefy MAZ telars will also pose issues on Indic roads..

Why can't our C17 have any role in this? They IMO can carry the Missile plus the TEL(What are the weights of TEL for AII to A5).
Having a Nuke drive on the ground is very very dangerous thing given the current sophistication of LACM's. Any airbase/airfield with the capacity to handle a C17 can be used as a Launch zone. This IMO is better then even Silos closer to borders.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 22 Apr 2012 23:35

Agni-5 is not MAD

Good insights. He is ex DRDO.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 22 Apr 2012 23:35

Agni-V launched under NATO pressure: China continues rant
Continuing its tirade against the successful launch of Agni-V, Chinese state media accused New Delhi of buckling under NATO pressure to cut down the missile's range from 9000 km to 5000 km.

The state-run Global Times which derided the missile even before it was launched saying that Chinese nuclear power is "stronger and more reliable and India had no chance" to catch up said on Sunday in yet another scathing write-up that "India has little to celebrate" as China has raced ahead and outclassed India in development.

"The Manmohan Singh government, because of pressure from NATO member countries, has kept a slow pace with their Integrated Guided Missile Programme (IGMP).

"The Agni-V is deemed to be in its final stage, whereas in fact the IGMP ought to have progressed to develop a range of 9,000 km," it said in the write-up posted on its web edition on Sunday night.

Commenting on Sino-India relations, the paper pointed to an international effort to portray India and China as enemies and said the two countries need to make bridges of friendship that would fail such an effort.

"Althought there is an international effort to paint India and China as enemies and to make the two countries go to war with each other, such an effort will fail.

"The Chinese and Indian people share a long history and culture, and what is needed is more discussion between the two about their economics, education, tourism and culture. We must create so many bridges of friendship that the plans of other countries to make China and India into enemies will fail," it said.

The paper said India and China can together make the Asian continent strong but if divided "all of Asia will remain weak".

The paper said the celebrations over the missile "conceal the inadequacies and slow pace" of the programme, and "hide the fact that successive Indian governments have capitulated to pressure from NATO to restrict the range and power of their launch vehicles", it said.

It said India was embarrassingly behind China in its space programme and also faced a huge vulnerability as over 80 per cent of its critical weapons systems are imported from France, the US, Russia and Israel.

"If these countries cut off supplies or ammunition during a conflict, India would be helpless," it said.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 22 Apr 2012 23:50

koti wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:I was hoping our Missiles would be hidden under granite hills in Orissa, C'garh, Nallamalla hills, Western ghats etc.

Singha wrote:wrt to the TELAR, I feel India will go for the more conventional DF31 type semi trailer arrangement, because we dont have millions of sq km of goat tracks to disappear into like Siberia....mostly they will be kept in military bases and drive out into highway system , with some pre surveyed sites along the ways.....the width and height of the beefy MAZ telars will also pose issues on Indic roads..

Why can't our C17 have any role in this? They IMO can carry the Missile plus the TEL(What are the weights of TEL for AII to A5).
Having a Nuke drive on the ground is very very dangerous thing given the current sophistication of LACM's. Any airbase/airfield with the capacity to handle a C17 can be used as a Launch zone. This IMO is better then even Silos closer to borders.


What have we bought C 17 for ?????

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby koti » 23 Apr 2012 00:02

Kersi D wrote:What have we bought C 17 for ?????

To do what Il76s can't already do????

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kersi D » 23 Apr 2012 00:07

koti wrote:
Kersi D wrote:What have we bought C 17 for ?????

To do what Il76s can't already do????


Which includes carrying long tubes over long distances
:D

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ldev » 23 Apr 2012 01:12

chackojoseph wrote:Agni-5 is not MAD

Good insights. He is ex DRDO.


Very interesting article. The CEP of <100 metres makes this a potential counterforce missile especially after it is MIRVed with say four to eight 250kt warheads. Although India's nuclear doctrine is for NFU, this missile has laid the foundations for letting Indian foreign policy and doctrine go in whatever direction it wants to in the future. Those options will be completely open once the K-4 in Arihant exhibits the same capability.

The fact that this missile was sanctioned by the Cabinet in December 2008 with the capabilities that it has demonstrated in this test is in IMO, proof enough that the present GOI may speak softly but carries a big stick, detractors notwithstanding.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby D Roy » 23 Apr 2012 02:11

he A2 rail wagons with sliding roofs can no doubt also be used for cansister launch just like russians do.


And also like the rail mobile mode developed for the cancelled Peacekeeper MX.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Apr 2012 03:37

Triad means, surface and sub-surface included. On road and rail or fixed earth launchers are all various options. The road is more ideal than the rest of the choice on land based launching platforms. Once canister-ized, road is the best. The containers can be moved, camouflaged, and hidden. Of course, I could argue strong fixed launched system, but that would require more ABM support.

Sub-surface is the ultimate end game for all hiding. It is naturally hiding from radar waves.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Philip » 23 Apr 2012 03:49

The beauty of A-V is that it is not gigantic in size,and can be easily hidden underground,in hills and mountains (with sev. fake entrances),in "barns",buildings-any factory sized shed would be sufficient.Moreover,the numbers of A-V,land launch TEL versions required,would not be more than a few dozen,as the majority of ICBMs would/should be carried by our SSBMs.From available info in the public domain,it appears that a min. of 3 SSBMs will be needed to deter China,which will carry 12/16 X 3-5 MIRVs,plus 2 more SSBMs to deal with Pak.With a min. of 60 missiles at sea,the same number in mobile form and a similar number to be carried by the strategic bomber force,we arrive at a minimum number of 180+ missiles/PGMs,of which 2/3s of those can carry MIRVs. There may also be a small number of tactical nukes carried by shorter ranged Prithvis,A-1s,Shouryas,etc.,for both the Pak and Sino theatres,numbers commensurate with the perceived threat.We too,not just Pak alone, can play the tactical game to deal with invading forces.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shyamd » 23 Apr 2012 04:07

Question for experts: prahaar shourya, tomahawk etc all are nuke capable. Are these not escalatory if used? Can't the enemy respond with a nuke once launched mistaking the conventional missile for a nuke warhead missile?

So won't commander think twice before using them in a conventional role?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Hari Seldon » 23 Apr 2012 04:38

^^^ That's part of the beauty of the NFU doctrine. It gives folks a free hand and a roadmap in the thick of battle.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 23 Apr 2012 04:39

Shyamd, Thats where NFU comes in for India. The challengers cant launch on warning for they know incoming is not a nuke unless they are cretins.

Also Shourya is declared nuke carrier. Prahaar is battle field conventional weapon.

As for Tomahawk its used against non-nuke powers and there should be no mistake for them nor retaliation! Besides US and Russia have the INF treaty which changed out the payloads and is under treaty verification.


I don't know what that expert is talking counter force and counter value stuff. India's NFU means that deterrence has broken so what counter force application? Its all counter value MAD. If they hit India no one gets up.

The accuracy with the yield and modern concrete urban jungles mean its all Shiva Tandava.
So what DRDO expert is that who wants to blunt the weapon that DRDO has created like Vishwakarma?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 23 Apr 2012 04:51

Also PRC wants to make A5 a NATO issue!

Due to India's NFU in NATO only UK, France and US are nuke enabled. Due to range US is out of limits. And UK and France are hardly challengers!

So no one will listen to PRC's squeaks like they ignored India's protests when PRC supplied nukes to TSP.

Its in PRC's best interests to come to terms with the nature of friends and allies and make up with India as JLN generation sought.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Bade » 23 Apr 2012 05:20

Austin wrote:
ramana wrote:What can be done is shoot down an obsolete ISRO satellite as it runs out of fuel and deorbits posing a problem for other space craft.


We can de-orbit an old almost end of life satellite to LEO and then shoot it out , or just launch a minimalist test micro sat in LEO and after it does it job , we can shoot it down , the debris wont be long there and that should take care of debris mess


Keep in mind a very high values asset with humans is in a very low orbit, the space station. Both Rus and US will not take it very kindly. Better option to test ASAT capability is shoot something to 800km orbit of small value as a piggyback on PSLV launches and bite the bullet.

The other unproven idea/option is to design a tether to capture one of the target mini-sats and do a controlled de-orbit. That would put DRDO leagues ahead in capability. We do things peacefully only. Sats just vanish from orbit with no debris. :P It can all burn up as it enters the atmosphere and point of splash down at a designated point in the south pacific graveyard.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Jarita » 23 Apr 2012 05:47

pankajs wrote:Agni-V launched under NATO pressure: China continues rant
Continuing its tirade against the successful launch of Agni-V, Chinese state media accused New Delhi of buckling under NATO pressure to cut down the missile's range from 9000 km to 5000 km.

The state-run Global Times which derided the missile even before it was launched saying that Chinese nuclear power is "stronger and more reliable and India had no chance" to catch up said on Sunday in yet another scathing write-up that "India has little to celebrate" as China has raced ahead and outclassed India in development.

"The Manmohan Singh government, because of pressure from NATO member countries, has kept a slow pace with their Integrated Guided Missile Programme (IGMP).

"The Agni-V is deemed to be in its final stage, whereas in fact the IGMP ought to have progressed to develop a range of 9,000 km," it said in the write-up posted on its web edition on Sunday night.

Commenting on Sino-India relations, the paper pointed to an international effort to portray India and China as enemies and said the two countries need to make bridges of friendship that would fail such an effort.

"Althought there is an international effort to paint India and China as enemies and to make the two countries go to war with each other, such an effort will fail.

"The Chinese and Indian people share a long history and culture, and what is needed is more discussion between the two about their economics, education, tourism and culture. We must create so many bridges of friendship that the plans of other countries to make China and India into enemies will fail," it said.

The paper said India and China can together make the Asian continent strong but if divided "all of Asia will remain weak".

The paper said the celebrations over the missile "conceal the inadequacies and slow pace" of the programme, and "hide the fact that successive Indian governments have capitulated to pressure from NATO to restrict the range and power of their launch vehicles", it said.

It said India was embarrassingly behind China in its space programme and also faced a huge vulnerability as over 80 per cent of its critical weapons systems are imported from France, the US, Russia and Israel.



"If these countries cut off supplies or ammunition during a conflict, India would be helpless," it said.




This actually makes a lot of sense. I can well believe that UPA would stymie India's progress under NATO orders.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ldev » 23 Apr 2012 06:09

One possible reason for the Chinese reaction is that Agni V is a potential first strike platform (counterforce) i.e. CEP <100m, MIRV capable and it has a declared range to cover all of China....prior Indian missiles did not pose this threat. India has a NFU policy and is highly unlikely to change it but there is a saying that you should keep track of your adversary's capabilities rather than his intentions. A good indicator of whether the Chinese feel vulnerable will be to track increased deployment of the smallest component of their missile forces i.e. the long range missiles such as DF-41s, CSS-X10 as well as track whether they are shifting more of their deterrent to their submarines.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 23 Apr 2012 06:24

Jarita wrote:
Agni-V launched under NATO pressure: China continues rant
Continuing its tirade against the successful launch of Agni-V, Chinese state media accused New Delhi of buckling under NATO pressure to cut down the missile's range from 9000 km to 5000 km.




This actually makes a lot of sense. I can well believe that UPA would stymie India's progress under NATO orders.


It is par for the course for Indians to imagine that other Indians have no spine and do things at the behest of white man and instantly accept that accusation when the Chinese or Pakistanis say that, merely to spite a government. Indian education teaches Indians to fundamentally think that way.

The next government will have its own unique set of detractors who say exactly the same thing, agreeing with Pakis and Chinese about accusations "proving" the traitorous and slave like credentials of government.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Anujan » 23 Apr 2012 06:31

The Cheeni reaction is due to sudden feeling of vulnerability and cognitive dissonance.

People talk of Pakistani textbooks, but completely ignore the Cheeni angle. Every student, right from school to college has a course about loving the commie party. It has statistics like the number of skyscrapers in China, vs the number in India. (Democracy is bad because you cant build skyscrapers). And vis-a-vis US, it has a semi-porn listing of the scandals there (Democracy and capitalism is bad, because it makes you get mistresses). The collective brainwashing and groupthink is that India cannot rise to a level to challenge China.

Ofcourse all was well when the sheeple believed this and the leaders of China didnt. And they were careful in tying India up with Pakistan and selling the "peaceful rise" theory to countries like Vietnam and Philippines. But the brainwashed generation have hit 60 now, and some of the younger generation were born *after* the revolution. So they pick up fights with Vietnam, Japan and Philippines -- causing them to arm up to the teeth and throw their lot with the US, and are stuck with a sudden cognitive dissonance once Beijing comes under the range of Indian missiles.

Extremely short sighted thinking by the Chi-coms IMHO. It was only a matter of time before hypersonic re-usable vehicles with MIRV payloads are sitting inside hardened shelters. Instead of finding sudden bhai-chara *after* that, it is better to start being friends now.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Suraj » 23 Apr 2012 06:40

Jarita wrote:This actually makes a lot of sense. I can well believe that UPA would stymie India's progress under NATO orders.

For goodness' sake, stop giving credence to any nonsense spouted by the Chinese. Sit back and enjoy their drivel.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Apr 2012 06:42

I am not willing to shoot sats and create debris.. however, I am willing to use some NG technology, that pushes the orbiting satellite out of earth's orbit... and then chase it with a hit to kill mission.;)

imho

--
BTW, for the chinese, our next test with MIRV, we should only claim MIRV ranges - 2000KM.. well within NATO comfort zone.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ShyamSP » 23 Apr 2012 06:52

Suraj wrote:
Jarita wrote:This actually makes a lot of sense. I can well believe that UPA would stymie India's progress under NATO orders.

For goodness' sake, stop giving credence to any nonsense spouted by the Chinese. Sit back and enjoy their drivel.


China's frustration seems to be more towards west than India. All of a sudden China doesn't need a western country to pose a complete threat to it and their threat on other countries has gone down dramatically. Maybe they were banking on west to keep continuous pressure on India to slow down India's arms development. More than weapons across the ocean, one bomb * under their bottom keeps them in senses I guess.

This episode also highlights China's Paki behavior of complaining on India to western countries.

* I didn't want to use word missile there :D
Last edited by ShyamSP on 23 Apr 2012 07:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby svinayak » 23 Apr 2012 06:53

ldev wrote:One possible reason for the Chinese reaction is that Agni V is a potential first strike platform (counterforce) i.e. CEP <100m, MIRV capable and it has a declared range to cover all of China....prior Indian missiles did not pose this threat. India has a NFU policy and is highly unlikely to change it but there is a saying that you should keep track of your adversary's capabilities rather than his intentions. A good indicator of whether the Chinese feel vulnerable will be to track increased deployment of the smallest component of their missile forces i.e. the long range missiles such as DF-41s, CSS-X10 as well as track whether they are shifting more of their deterrent to their submarines.


Informal chatter says that the GSLV launch in 2010 and in 2011 was sabotaged. There may be a reason for the Chinese to suspect that this A V would also be sabotaged and be a failure.
Since it has been successful PRC top may have felt betrayed that they are now alone and without friends to sabotage Indian Space program and Indian missile program.
Note: Partners for PRC to sabotage Indian programs are Pakistan and few other countries.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby AdityaM » 23 Apr 2012 07:07

Is there a ballistic missile which is not capable of carrying a nuke?
If every ballistic missile of ours is going to be assumed to be carrying a nuke, it means we will not use them unless we want adversary to counter with a true nuke attack.
Which means that A5 along with all the other Agnis will not be used in conflict with panda for the fear of triggering a nuke war.
That leaves us still incapable of inflicting damage to main panda population/commercial centers while ourselves being victims of geography.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 23 Apr 2012 07:08

Actually, we need to increase our security for ISRO/DRDO launch places. Every worker carries RFID and IFF sensors installed all around.

--
^^No, actually any ballistic can be considered first strike.. so, NFU is more from the aspects of the button control from the time of detection and confirmation. Our buddas in delhi parliament should be disengaged in decision making, and we build decision support system and advanced tracking systems.

Our buddas should not decide but only executive team, top 3 people gives launch command.

The reason, we need to invest heavy in tracking and decision support systems under NFU.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Lilo » 23 Apr 2012 07:22

Acharya wrote:
Informal chatter says that the GSLV launch in 2010 and in 2011 was sabotaged. There may be a reason for the Chinese to suspect that this A V would also be sabotaged and be a failure.
Since it has been successful PRC top may have felt betrayed that they are now alone and without friends to sabotage Indian Space program and Indian missile program.
Note: Partners for PRC to sabotage Indian programs are Pakistan and few other countries.

Interestingly a Russian general said something similar with regards to Phobos Grunt failure.

However since he deemed it difficult to penetrate Russian space forces (b/c of his belief in roosi counterintelligence? ) he narrowed the sabotage to some sort of energy weapon used by the western power.

The recent statement by Russian defence minister also has to be viewed in this context.
“The development of weaponry based on new physics principles; direct-energy weapons, geophysical weapons, wave-energy weapons, genetic weapons, psychotronic weapons, etc., is part of the state arms procurement program for 2011-2020,” Serdyukov said at a meeting with Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

India needs leverages on west to resist blackmail. If not high tech then low tech

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby negi » 23 Apr 2012 07:34

Well GSLV sabotage CT was floated during the same time period when there was this news about Stuxnet (worm) being used by Unkil and Israel to sabotage Iran's nuclear program; it is said that the worm targets PLCs which use Siemen's software however ISRO had later confirmed that the satellite in question did not have any such controller which used Siemen's software.

sooraj
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby sooraj » 23 Apr 2012 07:44

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303513404577354223384037042.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#articleTabs%3Darticle

India successfully test-fired a long-range ballistic missile on Thursday capable of carrying a nuclear warhead as far as Shanghai. The event deserves more scrutiny than it's received, though not for the reasons offered by the theologians of parchment arms control :-? .

The test marks a significant advance in global missile proliferation, which surely vindicates those in the U.S. who have pushed antimissile defenses. India's Agni 5—Agni is the Hindu god of fire—is capable of carrying MIRVed, or multiple, independently targetable, warheads. The missile also puts India closer to being able to develop antisatellite weapons, and the Agni 5 appears to be launchable from mobile platforms. All of this makes the missile a fearsome deterrent against foreign attack.

It's clear that India will eventually be able to turn the Agni 5 into an intercontinental missile capable of reaching Europe and the U.S. This is a harbinger of missile proliferation to come, and it shows that the dominance that the U.S. and Russia have long enjoyed in missile technology and the high ground of space will soon be challenged. :((

The launch also underscores the folly of arms-control treaties in controlling proliferation. India has never signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty even as it has become a formidable nuclear power. :(( The world's missile technology control regime has forced India to develop its own launch and guidance technology, though we also suspect it's received help on the sly from Russia and others. :wink:

The point is that a continental power like India is going to pursue weaponry that it believes to be in its own security interests, regardless of the wishful treaties of Western diplomats. That's especially true given China's claims to Indian territory and Beijing's bullying of its neighbors.

Yet it's also worth noting that few people laid awake Thursday night worrying about this new Indian missile. A State Department spokesman called on "all nuclear-capable states to exercise restraint regarding nuclear capabilities" but added that "India has a solid nonproliferation record."

The Chinese Foreign Ministry noted that "India and China are not rivals but cooperative partners," though China is one presumptive target of the Indian missile. Pakistan, India's traditional rival whose government was advised in advance of the launch, had no immediate official response at all.

This restrained reaction is strikingly different from the global alarm over North Korea's recent failed ballistic-missile launch, to say nothing of the anxiety provoked by Iranian missile tests and nuclear program. The difference is that no one in the West believes that India poses an aggressive military threat. India is a robust democracy whose nuclear weapons are intended as a deterrent, and not even hawks in the People's Liberation Army can credibly argue that Delhi would contemplate a nuclear first strike.

The crucial nonproliferation point is that the threat is less from the weapons than from the kind of regime that holds them. The arms control evangelists, including many in the Obama Administration, believe that the spread of weaponry is its own threat, whether the finger on the button belongs to David Cameron, Kim Jong Eun or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

But the real threat is that weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them will be acquired by tyrants who lack any domestic restraints and might well use them to dominate or destroy their neighbors. The world will be a safer place if fewer nations have nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. But the danger grows exponentially when those weapons are in the hands of a Hitler, Brezhnev or Iran's Revolutionary Guards.

The Indian launch might also cause some soul-searching in Beijing. Chinese officials sometimes sound as if their bullying regional policy will eventually have all of the Asia-Pacific region under their sway. But in practice the result has been the opposite, driving Japan, the Philippines, even Vietnam and Burma closer to the U.S. as a countervailing regional power. India's missile launch is another sign that its neighbors feel the need to deter any Chinese aggression.

As for the U.S., India's test underscores the need for robust investment in missile and satellite defenses with deployments before genuine threats arrive. It also shows the need to redouble the efforts to quarantine and deny WMD to rogue states, in contrast to treaties that provide an illusion of nonproliferation.




Unkil showing its hidden takleef :P

arun
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby arun » 23 Apr 2012 07:48

pankajs wrote:Agni-V launched under NATO pressure: China continues rant
Continuing its tirade against the successful launch of Agni-V, Chinese state media accused New Delhi of buckling under NATO pressure to cut down the missile's range from 9000 km to 5000 km.

The state-run Global Times which derided the missile even before it was launched saying that Chinese nuclear power is "stronger and more reliable and India had no chance" to catch up said on Sunday in yet another scathing write-up that "India has little to celebrate" as China has raced ahead and outclassed India in development.

"The Manmohan Singh government, because of pressure from NATO member countries, has kept a slow pace with their Integrated Guided Missile Programme (IGMP).

"The Agni-V is deemed to be in its final stage, whereas in fact the IGMP ought to have progressed to develop a range of 9,000 km," it said in the write-up posted on its web edition on Sunday night.

Commenting on Sino-India relations, the paper pointed to an international effort to portray India and China as enemies and said the two countries need to make bridges of friendship that would fail such an effort.

"Althought there is an international effort to paint India and China as enemies and to make the two countries go to war with each other, such an effort will fail.

"The Chinese and Indian people share a long history and culture, and what is needed is more discussion between the two about their economics, education, tourism and culture. We must create so many bridges of friendship that the plans of other countries to make China and India into enemies will fail," it said.

The paper said India and China can together make the Asian continent strong but if divided "all of Asia will remain weak".

The paper said the celebrations over the missile "conceal the inadequacies and slow pace" of the programme, and "hide the fact that successive Indian governments have capitulated to pressure from NATO to restrict the range and power of their launch vehicles", it said.

It said India was embarrassingly behind China in its space programme and also faced a huge vulnerability as over 80 per cent of its critical weapons systems are imported from France, the US, Russia and Israel.

"If these countries cut off supplies or ammunition during a conflict, India would be helpless," it said.


Granted the Global Times did come out with a disparaging article prior to the launch of Agni V but then again obviously the Hindustan Times has not bothered to read the latest Global Times article in full.

If they had they would have discovered there are Indian footprints to the latest article which had these words at the bottom of the article:

The article was compiled by Global Times reporter Chen Chenchen based on an interview with M.D. Nalapat, director and professor of the School of Geopolitics at Manipal University in India.

M.D. Nalapat is one of our own.

The latest Global Times article on which the HT article is based:

India and China must remember common threat amid missile fuss

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Rony » 23 Apr 2012 07:59

Nalapat is acting as a 'useful idiot' for the chinese for their anti-India drivel. He regularly appears in CCTV english and spouts krishna memonsqe BS.In one of the CCTV program he was saying that china is a big brother of Asia, India should not not spend more on defence and other such nonsence. No wonder his chinese hosts like him a lot. He is similar to M.k.badrakumar.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 23 Apr 2012 08:06

One reason for PRC umbrage after the A5 test is, it is now reduced to a regional power and all its pretensions of being a global power are checkmated. If India had tested an even longer range vehicle then PRC would be happy as that is not PRC specific. The deep khujli is because A5 is range specific to PRC and cant shake of the bite.

ldev, I do hope they shift their deterrent to subs for they are noisy tin cans that dare not move out of harbor and would spread the threat perception to others.


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