Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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gakakkad
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby gakakkad » 28 Apr 2012 20:25

I don't like BK.. he keeps yapping the same things over and over agains.. like "unproven tnw" ,

icbm OR irbm is just a matter of semantics..BKs obsession is more to do with his h&d as an analyst ..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby D Roy » 28 Apr 2012 20:48

nd most likely the only nation working on it. US does not need it, since no nation has currently an ultra-long range cruise missile.



No.

Yamrika's JLENS coupled with Patriot is undergoing tests even as we speak. they and the israelis are hyper keen on a CMDS.

Russia's latest Kh-101/102 series has variants capable of 5000 kms, air launched of course.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby gakakkad » 28 Apr 2012 21:04


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2012 21:06

gakakkad wrote:I don't like BK.. he keeps yapping the same things over and over agains.. like "unproven tnw"

Saar we need someone in the policy circle to push for more testing. He certainly has a role to play for no one in the decision making circle will give me the time of the day.

Even if the we have a proven bum, our claim that the 45kt pataka can be do a 200kt dhamaka, will cut no ice. Deterrence has to be demonstrated.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby gakakkad » 28 Apr 2012 21:11

^ all that is ok ,saar ,but some of his articles seem to undermine national interest.. like playing down A-5 etc..what was the need to remind the world about TNW when we had a celebratory success?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby harbans » 28 Apr 2012 21:20

If we have a good BMD we should take care of 90% of missiles launched at our major cities. That leaves a 10% coming through. The Paki tests were basically fizzles..even the fission ones. If even they work 5kT or so, damage to population centers in India is limited. However if they test again, there will be immediate improvements of yields to around 15 kT. The difference is major and if we consider the casualty differences between 10% of 100 nukes of 5 kT and 15 kT hitting population centers it is massive.

Meanwhile if we MIRV 6-8 even 20 kT proven fission devices to a single missile and 2 of them hit a major city, there will hardly be much difference in damage if we deliver 6 of 250 kT or 12 of 20 kT. A 20 kT device on Hiroshima took 70 k lives in an instant. A dozen 20 kT devices on a single city delivered through just 2 missiles is major devastation.

So possibly rather than testing out and disproving the TN fizzle theory, it may be prudent of us to not test and develop a massive BMD capability along with MIRV tech. 2 missiles delivering a dozen 20 kt and maybe one delivering 3 of 250 kT devices which may work are chances that no one in there right senses would assume, that no big damage will take place. The city on which these missiles fall will be ash. We have i am certain factored that in, BKs clamor for TN tests notwithstanding.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2012 21:35

gakakkad wrote:^ all that is ok ,saar ,but some of his articles seem to undermine national interest.. like playing down A-5 etc..what was the need to remind the world about TNW when we had a celebratory success?

BK has spelt out the GoI's position on the range and classification of A5 and even Saraswatji has stuck to it in all interviews and official releases. BK did not like the rug being pulled from under his feet and that is the sense you get from the first two para of his article. You can see his tangential reference to the actual range after DRDO let is out.

On the TNW, if the yield of the pataka is in doubt, the deterrence breaks down. So one way to look at it would be that by creating doubt about the bum, forces the government to test it to reestablish the deterrence. About the timing, I will not comment.

I am not going into Fizzle debate, just trying to figure out BK's reasons for writing what he wrote.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2012 21:41

harbans wrote:However if they test again, there will be immediate improvements of yields to around 15 kT.

Jub Chini maherban tab Baki pahelwan. Whether they have 5 kt or 15 kt bum depends on China and not on Baki's capacity to design or even test it.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tejas » 28 Apr 2012 21:46

Forget about the Poaks. Are the mini nukes going to deter China? Also we get so much less bang for our fissile buck if we don't go thermonuclear. Also remember the Chinese can always supply the Poaks with functioning nukes or transfer other designs to them. Lastly no one will treat India like the big boy it should be treated as, if we are junior members of the nuclear club. We shouldn't have what 3rd rate powers like the UQ have?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Apr 2012 21:54

We will have to test the 200-250 kt thing today or tomorrow but that should be sufficient.
3-petaled MIRV = 3 * 250 = 750 kt
10-petaled MIRV = 10 * 250 = 2500 kt i.e 2.5 mt

So each A5/6/7 could potentially deliver between .75 to 2.5 mt to the same target if that is what is desired.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby harbans » 28 Apr 2012 22:20

Jub Chini maherban tab Baki pahelwan. Whether they have 5 kt or 15 kt bum depends on China and not on Baki's capacity to design or even test it.


From what info we have, we do know that what they have is fizzle to limited yield. But if we test then they will too, in which case we can be certain they will graduate well up the yield ladder.


10-petaled MIRV = 10 * 250 = 2500 kt i.e 2.5 mt

So each A5/6/7 could potentially deliver between .75 to 2.5 mt to the same target if that is what is desired.


Yield damage is calculated by distance from the center and effects reduce by the sq rt as distance from center increases. 20 * 20 kT (delivered from 2 MIRV'd) missiles will do almost as much damage as will 10 * 250 kT on a single city. Even with 20 kT devices we are talking of taking out around 2 million in a single city. But by making certain by testing that Paki;s can increase yield from 5 to 15-20 kT range, we will make sure the damage to us is far higher.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pradeepe » 28 Apr 2012 23:59

gakakkad wrote:I don't like BK.. he keeps yapping the same things over and over agains.. like "unproven tnw" ,

icbm OR irbm is just a matter of semantics..BKs obsession is more to do with his h&d as an analyst ..


+1. My only take is that he has a scripted role to play and continues playing that.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 29 Apr 2012 00:53

harbans wrote:
From what info we have, we do know that what they have is fizzle to limited yield. But if we test then they will too, in which case we can be certain they will graduate well up the yield ladder.

Yield damage is calculated by distance from the center and effects reduce by the sq rt as distance from center increases. 20 * 20 kT (delivered from 2 MIRV'd) missiles will do almost as much damage as will 10 * 250 kT on a single city. Even with 20 kT devices we are talking of taking out around 2 million in a single city. But by making certain by testing that Paki;s can increase yield from 5 to 15-20 kT range, we will make sure the damage to us is far higher.


The main reason to test TN design is that it saves lots of precious fissle material compared to Fission and Boosted Fission ones. In case we have well confirmed TN design then its a win win situation as we'll have higher yield warheads and more warheads compared to what we'll have if we're forced to make our inventory mainly from 'fission' and 'boosted fission' designs.

Porki/Panda combo is already testing in North Korea, for them there is no problem in testing as NoKo is immune to sanctions.

We need around 900 warheads against both pork-panda cities, army targets, dams, industrial hubs, ports and refineries.

Plus more to take out missiles on the ground.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 29 Apr 2012 01:13

You want to reverse back to 1998, and continue on the failure analysis of 12-25kt rather 45-60kt thermos, then we have no other option than to accept that there exists another factor that a 45kt maal can be contained to produce 12kt maal output. I would say the boulders and rocks helped. Why not consider that ratio, and begin our subcritical testing of scalable design for 12kt walas that produces only sub-critical wavelengths.

And we would never know if that did not take place as well.. so let us keep at that deterrence level for our advantage against chippanda, and continuation of nfu programs we have chartered.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 29 Apr 2012 01:42

We have great potential to export missiles to friendly nations: Saraswat
There is tremendous potential to export some missiles and defence technologies developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to friendly nations after meeting the needs of the country, according to V.K. Saraswat, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister.

Talking to journalists on the sidelines of ‘Aerospace Luminary Lecture' organised by the Hyderabad Chapter of the Aeronautical Society of India here on Saturday, Dr. Saraswat said already some nations had evinced interest in importing the Akash surface-to-air missile. However, no commitment could be given today as a large number of systems were required for the country.

Dr. Saraswat said the export potential could be tapped in the years to come once there was real output in terms of numbers and quality. He, however, pointed out that the export policy would be very restrictive.

Referring to the successful launch of Agni-V, RISAT-I and the flight test of the naval variant of the Light Combat Aircraft, he said April was a great month for aeronautical and aerospace sectors in the country. Besides taking India's strategic defence preparedness to a higher level, Agni-V provided the capability to launch long-range missiles with multiple warheads, anti-satellite weapons and launch satellites on demand. The success of Agni-V also gave confidence that the country was not dependent on any other nation as far as missile technology was concerned. Likewise, the successful flight test of the naval variant of LCA demonstrated major technology capability of the aircraft taking off and landing on the deck of a ship.

LRSAM trial

He said another flight trial of Lone-Range Surface–to-air Missile (LRSAM) would be conducted in June, followed by a series of tests in 2013. It was expected to be inducted in 2014. The Medium Range Surface-to-air Missile would be ready by 2015.

He lauded the contribution around 15 industries from Hyderabad in the success of the Agni-V missile.

Dr. Saraswat and team members of Agni-V Avinash Chander, Programme Director, Agni-V and Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems (DRDO), V.G. Sekaran, Director, Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) and S.P. Dash, Director, DLRL, were felicitated.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 29 Apr 2012 01:45

Agni-V missile test moves India past its old rivalries
There was a sense of déjà vu when, days after India successfully test-fired its nuclear-capable Agni-V ballistic missile, Pakistan responded by test-firing an "improved version" of its nuclear-capable Hatf-4 intermediate range ballistic missile. At a time when Indo-Pakistan ties seem to be improving, these tests have struck a jarring note.

Although New Delhi and Islamabad informed each other of their impending tests, in accordance with a 2005 pact that stipulates that the two neighbours give due warning to each other before missile tests, recent events underscore the continuing security dilemma between the South Asian neighbours. However, there is a bigger story behind India's test that also needs to be recognised.

With its latest test, India has gained entry into an elite club of nations - the US, Russia, China, Britain, France and Israel - and is a culmination, in many ways, of efforts that started in 1983 as part of India's Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP).

From the first test of Agni I in 1989, it has been an eventful road for India's missile programme. It was just a matter of time for Agni-V with its range of 5,000 kilometres after the 3,500-kilometre test of the Agni-IV in November. Although it will take a few more tests before the missile becomes operational and inducted into the armed forces, the message is clear - India's second-strike capability is secure.

India's nuclear doctrine precluding a first strike relies fundamentally on a credible second-strike nuclear capability. The Agni-V, by bringing the Chinese heartland within range of India's missiles, makes the Sino-Indian nuclear dynamic more stable than before. India's Agni-III has been deployed very close to the Chinese border to give India a credible second strike capability.

Now, for the first time, India has demonstrated its missile capability that is able to target China. This will give Indian military planners greater flexibility in deploying the missile arsenal. This test is also psychologically important for India, boosting its confidence to deal with China as an equal.

China is already at an advanced stage in its missile capability. China's nuclear arsenal is more than double India's estimated 100 warheads, and it continues to deploy both land and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.

China's reaction has been predictable, underscoring once again the disdain sections of the Chinese elite feel for India. Although officially, China just emphasised that India and China were not rivals, the state-run Global Times was openly dismissive of Indian claims, arguing that India "should be clear that China's nuclear power is stronger and more reliable" and that "for the foreseeable future, India would stand no chance in an overall arms race with China".

Although sections of the media have portrayed Agni-V as an Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM), technically the missile is not. The Agni-V is an Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM) and in terms of policy there is a good reason for New Delhi to underline the fact that India is not yet ready for an ICBM.

So far, India has successfully crafted a narrative about its missile programme that gives it a defensive orientation. India wants a missile capability to strengthen its deterrence, and there is no need to antagonise the rest of the world by suggesting a capability to strike at will against any corner of the world.

While this might not satisfy some hyper-nationalists in India, an ICBM capability would generate apprehensions about India's intentions and cast doubts on the narrative of a peaceful rise. The message India sends to the rest of the world is especially important at a time when India is seeking membership in global-export control regimes - the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), the Australia Group and the Wassenaar Agreement - based on its impeccable non-proliferation credentials.

The reaction of the US, underlining India's "solid non-proliferation record", is also very instructive about how US-India ties have deepened in the last few years. India is widely considered as a responsible nuclear power, and the logic of India's tests is well understood. The US today welcomes its rise as a balancing force in Asia and as a powerful democratic partner at a time when America's traditional allies in the West no longer have the will and the ability to carry the burdens of a global power.

So while India's focus remains firmly on China, Pakistan continues with its obsession with India. Islamabad's latest missile test merely underscores an already well-established reality that Pakistan maintains a credible deterrence against India. The more confident Pakistan is about its nuclear posture, the better it is for the region as it will bring greater stability in India-Pakistan ties.

The real problem in India-Pakistan ties today is not Pakistan's nuclear capability but the reluctance of the Pakistani security establishment to unequivocally renounce terrorism as an instrument of state policy. And the recent tests in South Asia do nothing to change that reality.

Dr Harsh V Pant is a reader in international studies at King's College London

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Fidel Guevara » 29 Apr 2012 01:47

***Question for gurus****

If there is a submarine-launched missile which impacts on home soil (any country), how would the struck nation identify who launched the missile? Let's say the missile ballistic profile was disguised, so it does not look obviously like a Trident or Russi or Chini missile...how to identify the source from the mushroom cloud? Is there anything in the fallout or radiation spectrum that would be a signature for any specific source of fissile material?

Now that we will soon have the capability to destroy China, this might be a sneaky option for some anti-China third party...esp if they modify the ballistic profile to look like a Chinese SLBM.
Last edited by Fidel Guevara on 29 Apr 2012 01:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_22872 » 29 Apr 2012 01:59

Fidel Guevara wrote:***Question for gurus****

If there is a submarine-launched missile which impacts on home soil (any country), how would the struck nation identify who launched the missile? Let's say the missile ballistic profile was disguised, so it does not look obviously like a Trident or Russi or Chini missile...how to identify the source from the mushroom cloud? Is there anything in the fallout or radiation spectrum that would be a signature for any specific source of fissile material?

Now that we will soon have the capability to destroy China, this might be a sneaky option for some anti-China third party...esp if they modify the ballistic profile to look like a Chinese SLBM.

Not a guru, but found some info, may be this way:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/11/nuclear-debris-carries-signatures-of-bomb-that-caused-it.ars
and also this pdf, don't know how to upload it:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nuclear%20weapon%20signature&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFgQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fas.org%2Fsgp%2Fcrs%2Fnuke%2FR40154.pdf&ei=-VWcT8nSLqjc6QHl_JyODw&usg=AFQjCNEQrWT4K6Zb1Y32T-b37kMvMeLcTA
Last edited by member_22872 on 29 Apr 2012 02:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Fidel Guevara » 29 Apr 2012 01:59

Marten wrote:How many countries can launch a nuclear missile from their submarines? The signatures of each device are very well known, and it will be near impossible to claim "deniability". It is also unclear why any country would nuke another without being in a state of war. No third parties exist out there who would risk a global cataclysm under a nuke cloud. Very few will survive with their gene pools intact.


Marten, yes I agree, very few countries have the capability, but this number will increase. 10-15 years from now, perhaps Israel and NoKo might have this capability, perhaps even Pak if they really push for it.

As for the signature of each device...I would hope so, but I doubt it. Take the W88 for example, I doubt if we or anyone else will know anything about its explosion profile, maybe only the Chinese have a clue about it since they stole the tech from Khan. Since most warheads nowadays are not tested, only simulated, you will need moles deep inside every nuclear establishment to leak this info.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Fidel Guevara » 29 Apr 2012 02:06



Thanks for sharing, this sounds very doable. Especially since the "suspect" country will share every detail about their nukes if such an event ever happens.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby VikB » 29 Apr 2012 02:08

What Marten is saying is very interesting. In a few years the oceans wud be milling with SSBNs with nuclear tip missile club being bigger than even now. There will always be new entrants. Now forget about Khan, any other country does not have the kind of sophisticated data+snooping+24/7 alert assets. also, once a nuclear missile is launched, the country under attack wud not wait for confirmation of the sournce and in panic may just go ahead with nuking the country it believes has launched the attack. This raises some interesting scenarios on India-puke-lizard and India-lizard-vietnam(say) and many others.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_22872 » 29 Apr 2012 02:09

Fidel, you are correct, it is not possible, but the pdf talks about other methods, I linked later. But as you said what ever method, we will need a sample 'signature' to match to, lacking which we may have to look to US perhaps? and the pdf discusses only about how to detect the presence of nuclear materials in a bomb than how to link to the source country.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 29 Apr 2012 02:28

So, are you guys suggesting that pakis or the khaans can launch a sub launched missile on china, and they will react towards India? America will seize to exists on such acts. The very fact, that during cold war days, it was a terror every time tension builds up or when (check out movie K9) things goes very close to being a nuclear holocaust.

There are protocols established on engagement of war, and countries don't operate like pakis or chinese terrorists. They hide, and do everything clandestine, and still china, signatory to many treaties, hides away many strategic missiles, and does not declare their power.

In addition, they continue to spoil the world climate by p5 harakiri, and cause problems especially for India. India needs to show them, that time is up.. fold up their dam wazoos, and obey to a global order.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Fidel Guevara » 29 Apr 2012 02:59

Guys, this thread seems to be totally about Agni-V, and other missile/munition discussions may be getting washed out of prominence.

I set up a dedicated thread for Agni-V topics. May I request that we move the party to that room?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shyamd » 29 Apr 2012 03:23

Private industry’s contribution to Agni-V success huge, significant: Saraswat


We have great potential to export missiles to friendly nations: Saraswat
Special Correspondent
Share · Comment · print · T+
WELL DONE: Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister V.K. Saraswat greeting Programme Director, Agni-V and Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems, DRDO), Avinash Chander during a felicitation function in Hyderabad on Saturday. Photo: Mohammed Yousuf
The Hindu WELL DONE: Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister V.K. Saraswat greeting Programme Director, Agni-V and Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems, DRDO), Avinash Chander during a felicitation function in Hyderabad on Saturday. Photo: Mohammed Yousuf

Some nations have evinced interest in importing Akash surface-to-air missile: Saraswat

There is tremendous potential to export some missiles and defence technologies developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to friendly nations after meeting the needs of the country, according to V.K. Saraswat, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister.

Talking to journalists on the sidelines of ‘Aerospace Luminary Lecture' organised by the Hyderabad Chapter of the Aeronautical Society of India here on Saturday, Dr. Saraswat said already some nations had evinced interest in importing the Akash surface-to-air missile. However, no commitment could be given today as a large number of systems were required for the country.

Dr. Saraswat said the export potential could be tapped in the years to come once there was real output in terms of numbers and quality. He, however, pointed out that the export policy would be very restrictive.

Referring to the successful launch of Agni-V, RISAT-I and the flight test of the naval variant of the Light Combat Aircraft, he said April was a great month for aeronautical and aerospace sectors in the country. Besides taking India's strategic defence preparedness to a higher level, Agni-V provided the capability to launch long-range missiles with multiple warheads, anti-satellite weapons and launch satellites on demand. The success of Agni-V also gave confidence that the country was not dependent on any other nation as far as missile technology was concerned. Likewise, the successful flight test of the naval variant of LCA demonstrated major technology capability of the aircraft taking off and landing on the deck of a ship.

LRSAM trial

He said another flight trial of Lone-Range Surface–to-air Missile (LRSAM) would be conducted in June, followed by a series of tests in 2013. It was expected to be inducted in 2014. The Medium Range Surface-to-air Missile would be ready by 2015.

He lauded the contribution around 15 industries from Hyderabad in the success of the Agni-V missile.

Dr. Saraswat and team members of Agni-V Avinash Chander, Programme Director, Agni-V and Chief Controller (Missiles and Strategic Systems (DRDO), V.G. Sekaran, Director, Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) and S.P. Dash, Director, DLRL, were felicitated.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby andy B » 29 Apr 2012 08:11




two interesting vids of M51 tests the first one is particularly interesting because it shows a pontoon type launch with the aerospike deployment onlee.

Guessing our own pontoon lanches will be similar...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby tejas » 29 Apr 2012 08:53

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?172498-French-Armed-Forces-Pictures/page102

Must check out these amazing pics of the M-51 SLBM including beautiful pics of its carbon filament rocket motor casing 8)
Anyone have an idea why there is venting of gas from the upper aspect of the first stage?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby arun » 29 Apr 2012 09:45

My guess and I stress guess, is that it is not venting gas but rather is venting water.

Perhaps undersea ballistic launches require the missile body to take on water during launch to prevent the missile from being crushed by the pressure of sea water encountered when the missile exits its launch tube.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby John » 29 Apr 2012 09:55

It is cold launch it is ejected out from a pressurized canister and when the missile is certain distance above the water the rocket fires.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby harbans » 29 Apr 2012 11:41

So are the canisters smooth bore or rifled? :P

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby NRao » 29 Apr 2012 14:05

The ejected missile has an accelerometer, which when it detects a -ve motion (deceleration), the missile's rocket is fired. Nothing to do with the height to which it rises. (The problem with height based firing is that it may not achieve that height every time.)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Drishyaman » 29 Apr 2012 14:48

harbans wrote:So are the canisters smooth bore or rifled? :P

:rotfl: Can't stop laughing.
Sanku ji will be the right person to comment on that :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pankajs » 29 Apr 2012 15:16

India developing radar-destroying Anti-Radiation Missile
After the success of Agni-V project, India is developing an Anti-Radiation Missile (ARM) which can hugely multiply the strike capabilities by destroying the enemy's advance warning system.

Production of the ARM, which are among the most advanced missiles, is being undertaken on priority basis by the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), which specialises in the missile development.

Such missiles can be mounted on Sukhoi fighter planes Su-30 MKI, 140 of which have already been acquired by India from Russia and around 100 more are expected to be delivered in due course of time.

These missile can detect a radar by tracking its electro-magnetic radiation and pulses generated, an official told PTI, adding these would be independent of the radar wavelength and be able to destroy it.

Such missiles, currently in use of some major powers like the US, can detect and attack a radar antenna or transmitter with minimal aircrew input.

The proportional guidance system that homes in on enemy radar emissions has a fixed antenna and seeker head in the missile's nose.

The Anti-Radiation Missiles in use by the US Air Force move at the speed of over Mach 2, propelled by a smokeless and solid-propellant rocket motor.

The US Air Force introduced High Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARM) on the F-4G Wild Weasel and later on specialised F-16s equipped with the HARM Targeting System (HTS).

Other projects being undertaken on priority basis by the DRDO are Long Range Air-to-Air Missile and Short Range Surface-to-Air Missile.

The flight test and production clearance of Medium Range Surface-to-Air Missiles is also on the cards.

The DRDO is also planning guided flight of Astra Missile from ground and air in the near future.

Operationalisation of the third regiment of BrahMos missile for Army, its integration with Su-30 MKI as also underwater trials from pontoon are also on the priority list.

DRDO is also working on early static validation trials of Pinaka MK-II rocket, with an extended range of 60 kms, along with user trials of its warhead.


The present range of the Pinaka rocket, launched in clusters of 12 from indigenously-built multi-barrel launcher, is 39-40 km in 40 seconds with 1.2 tons of high explosives.

Fitted with a variety of warheads like anti-tank mines and blast-cum-pre-fragmented high explosives, Pinaka can destroy an area of 350 sq kms.

Army has already raised two regiments of Pinaka and more are planned.

Flight trial of 'Prahar' missile as tactical battlefield surface-to-surface weapon system is also in the pipeline.

SaiK
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 29 Apr 2012 18:11

firing the rocket on accelerometer alone is pretty complex logic, that it might need altimeter or relative negativity above a certain delta value. the problem is the speed of the projectile at (ejection subsurface point) delta time, is faster than the speed when it hits the surface. there will be a reduction in velocity.

It could also have oxygen sensors or other sensors combined with accelerometer.. I am thinking it can't be just one device to provide precision firing., and it is dangerous to wait to fire based on accelerometer alone, even with fault tolerant measures. other sensors include water based pressure sensors, water level pressure transducers, atmospheric barometric ones to sense air etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby NRao » 29 Apr 2012 21:01

^^^^^

Perhaps, I am no expert. That was my recollection from a BR discussion from the "Sunil" era.

However, gas generators were the biggest problem they had to resolve. To propel a 50-70 ton object to the surface, in proper form (proper inclination, etc, etc, etc) was a task. Today, I am told, they have a solid rocket motor that heats some amount of water to generate steam as on-the-go "gas". The missile is never touched by the sea water at any stage during the ascend.

So, please apply all your sensors to this scenario.

There are plenty of slow-motion videos on youTube.

And, let me know you FIND, not speculate.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby harbans » 29 Apr 2012 21:28

In this video, the missile is chucked into water first..so i guess it does get wet after all:

http://gridviper.com/fire/powerful-unde ... cket-test/

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby negi » 29 Apr 2012 23:06

^ Above is a ship launched sequence in fact the main stage gets ignited under the water itself , that does not happen for any of the SLBMs all of them get hurled up clear of the water surface via cold launch before their main stage kicks in.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 29 Apr 2012 23:19

Indian ARM sounds cool. Any specs?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby jaladipc » 29 Apr 2012 23:33

SaiK wrote:Indian ARM sounds cool. Any specs?


There was some talk about using akash propulsion system,might get modified for extended range.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby NRao » 29 Apr 2012 23:53

harbans wrote:In this video, the missile is chucked into water first..so i guess it does get wet after all:

http://gridviper.com/fire/powerful-unde ... cket-test/


Sir,

Let us not cloud the discussion - about sub launched IC missiles. (Not CM, rockets, torpedoes, etc.) Thx.

Now, to the post you have made, do you know - for sure - what that device is? Is it is a tech-demo? Is the missile within a canister? I downloaded it and went frame by frame, and it does not look like a missile when it is shot into the water. It is an interesting technology, but does not address the IC missile launch from a sub.


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