Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_20453 » 27 Dec 2012 14:40

Singha wrote:so its 40km (120,000ft) not 20km (60,000ft). a Mach7.5 object at 40km is vastly more difficult to target than one at 20km..almost any big SAM of S300+ size can manage 20km.


I don't think the S-300 could be able to manage the Shaurya since this thing flies in a straight path at speeds of mach 7.5. It also has terminal maneuvers up its sleeve. Being a hybrid missile it can be programmed to fly even at lower altitudes but then it would cover a lower range.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SaiK » 27 Dec 2012 19:52

It will carry 12 K-15 SLBMs that can be launched even under ice caps. www.naval-technology.com/projects/arihant-class/

can someone go behind this tech or breaking ice caps, and then launching?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 28 Dec 2012 03:52

SSridhar wrote:IMO, the underwater deterrent largely depends on the success of Arihant per se, rather than K-15 because the missile has been successfully tested many times over.
The Key item now is Arihant and her Siblings coming of age quickly. K15 and k4 would be ready way before that... it is more akin to our Mig29Ks without Vik... or can i say Astra without Tejas :wink:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby dinesha » 28 Dec 2012 08:25

Submarine launched ballistic missile ready for production
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... nd-economy
HYDERABAD, DEC. 27:
India’s submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) is ready for production. Its pre-production test flight on Wednesday from a pontoon off the coast of Visakhapatnam was successful.

The missile is ready for integration with the country’s nuclear submarine ‘INS Arihant’. The capability puts India among the elite club of nations possessing such weapons. These include the US, Russia, France, UK, Israel and China.

The underwater-launched ballistic missile was tested for the minimum range as per the requirement of the user. It achieved all its objectives, said Avinash Chander, Chief Controller R&D (Missiles & Strategic Systems).

The missile system for the nuclear-powered Arihant platform will give the country the complete cycle of possessing options to deploy nuclear weapons from air, land and under sea. This is the tenth flight test of the missile.

The missile has a maximum range of 700 km , according to defence experts.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Austin » 28 Dec 2012 08:56

Accuracy of GLONASS in 2020 will be increased to 0.6 m

Roscosmos suggests 2020 to enter the location accuracy for the GLONASS system in less than 10 centimeters, the head office, Vladimir Popovkin said at a government meeting, which addresses the space program until 2020.

"Today, the measurement accuracy of 2,8 meters by 2015 we go to 1.4 meters by 2020, 0.6 meters," - he said.

In this case, Popovkin said that "in view of the amendments, which are now implemented, in fact it will be less than 10 cm accuracy."

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 28 Dec 2012 20:16

Will we get this level of accuracy or a degraded 10M accuracy like GPS?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 28 Dec 2012 22:29

The military grade but by that time IRNSS will already be in service.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 29 Dec 2012 01:07

Bheeshma wrote:The military grade but by that time IRNSS will already be in service.

IRNSS and Gagan should go a long way in accurate Navigation and (Global) Positioning.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 29 Dec 2012 03:28

What was the GPS technology or device that India developed earlier this year, and what is its significance? Can someone please restate the achievement. Thanks!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby PratikDas » 29 Dec 2012 04:52

Varoon Shekhar wrote:What was the GPS technology or device that India developed earlier this year, and what is its significance? Can someone please restate the achievement. Thanks!

In September 2012 it was announced that Accord software have developed a very low power electronic module called G3OM weighing 17 gm that could receive GPS, GLONASS and GAGAN signals. Broadsword: Satellite navigation breakthrough for aircraft and weapons.

This module can be combined with an inertial navigation system (INS), probably a ring laser gyro INS [RINS], as shown in the figure below obtained from a paper published in Coordinates magazine titled INS-GPS-GLONASS navigation fusion scheme for high dynamics guided projectiles by two Research Center Imarat scientists, G, Satheesh Reddy and Manjit Kumar.

Image

The paper above was published in August 2012 and support for GAGAN is shown as "(in Future)". The very next month the G3OM was announced as including support for GAGAN.

As stated in the paper in the form of 2 examples which leveraged INS, GPS and GLONASS but not GAGAN:
As analyzed, where the INS is aided by single (GPS/GLO) constellation, the position error of Hybrid Navigation is driven down to less than 15m (1-σ) after about 50 sec, whereas the position error of combined aided GPS-GLONASS constellations is better than 7m (1-σ) after 50 sec as shown in figure 5. It has been observed that for weak GPS constellation the concurrent healthy GLONASS measurements provides better accuracy, high redundancy and more reliable combined GG solution. This also results in improved GDOP and Hybrid Navigation Performance. Further the Real Time Simulation studies are carried to analyze the performance of this scheme for High Velocity Projectile applications.

The scheme has been simulated for medium range guided Projectile and post simulation results were analyzed as shown in fig 7 & fig 8. The Projectile travelled with forward velocity 800m/s and beyond covers the short (< 100 Km) to medium down range (< 250 Km) in the flight time of 371 sec. As it’s analyzed, the Vehicle in the entire Thrust Phase and beyond is guided through either by GPS or GG aided Navigation by correcting all the propagated Navigation errors in all phases, which resulted in achieving the desired accuracy for Hybrid Navigation (< 25 m, 1-σ) of the Vehicle as shown in fig 8.

Apart from military uses, BusinessLine notes:
The modular receiver is useful in aircrafts, helicopters, mobile vehicles, boats, ships and survey applications. The component fabricated by the Bangalore-based, Accord Software & Systems company also has civilian use and can be produced in large numbers at a low cost.

G. Satheesh Reddy was promoted to Outstanding Scientist in September 2011. Quoting Tarmak007
His technological achievements, eminence and innovative applications of engineering gave him the rare distinction to pick up this rare honor at the age of 48 years. He was earlier conferred with DRDO Scientist of the Year Award in 2010 and also the Fellowship of Indian National Academy of Engineering Fellowship (FNAE).

He then went on to win the Systems Society of India VIKRAM Award "in recognition of his outstanding leadership towards realizing Systems of National importance", also quoting Tarmak007.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2012 09:36

Shrinivasan wrote:
Will we get this level of accuracy or a degraded 10M accuracy like GPS?

Well, the recent agreement and the proposed 'joint operation' of Glonass probably mean that we will get this accuracy through the PY code of Glonass.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2012 09:49

From this link,
IIT-Madras director Bhaskar Ramamurthi said the IIT, which had a long history of collaboration with the DRDO, including the recently-trialled submarine-launched K-15 missile, envisaged the joint innovation centre as a tripartite partnership that would also involve regional industry.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 29 Dec 2012 12:52

Yes, they have long history of collaboration, many notable and successful products/projects I think. Not a surprise to see such a center started there.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 29 Dec 2012 13:01

Singha wrote:so its 40km (120,000ft) not 20km (60,000ft). a Mach7.5 object at 40km is vastly more difficult to target than one at 20km..almost any big SAM of S300+ size can manage 20km.


40 Km for land variant; 20km for Naval variant, much like Cruise missile. Not without reason it is termed as 'powered as ballistic and flies like Cruise missile'.

This K-15 test is a naval variant, so flown at 20 km altd.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vic » 29 Dec 2012 13:49

I wondering what would be the range of Shourya if it is used as Ballistic missile rather than cruise missile. The range should increase as it will face less/nil air resistance at higher altitude but con would be that it would not be able to glide. So will the net range increase or decrease?

Further can it be used as an AShM? How low the missile can go below 20km in its cruise phase?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Kanson » 29 Dec 2012 14:10

vic wrote:I wondering what would be the range of Shourya if it is used as Ballistic missile rather than cruise missile. The range should increase as it will face less/nil air resistance at higher altitude but con would be that it would not be able to glide. So will the net range increase or decrease?
If you take the 're-entry' speed, it is same as that of ballistic missile that can cover similar range.

Further can it be used as an AShM? How low the missile can go below 20km in its cruise phase?
The info you are seeking is not in public domain.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 04 Jan 2013 21:24

Most probably Nirbhay is ready for some testing. There is a tender for transport of equipment from ADE to ITR and back using 8 trucks with flat beds of minimum dimension of the 7 feet by 18 feet.
Last edited by Indranil on 04 Jan 2013 23:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 04 Jan 2013 21:33

^^^ Links please.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Aditya G » 04 Jan 2013 22:38

*** Deleted ***
Last edited by SSridhar on 05 Jan 2013 09:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Let us be careful in what we post

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 04 Jan 2013 23:23


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 04 Jan 2013 23:37

Aditya, I request you to remove your post. I have removed parts of posts as well. I am not sure if we can discuss this in the public domain. The tender is in public domain but has a disclaimer in red right in front saying."The information given in this document is not to be published or communicated either directly or indirectly, to the press or to any person not holding an official position in the service of the GOVERNMENT OF INDIA."

I will talk to the mods if we can discuss this here, and subsequently post the information if they think it's fine.
Last edited by SSridhar on 05 Jan 2013 09:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Done.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 04 Jan 2013 23:54

No need to worry about Aditya G's post and the trailer tender is available here

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/liveTenders.jsp

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 05 Jan 2013 00:33

hmmm. in that case, here is my speculation.

I think, the trailer will carry the stages of the K-4 missile. Weight and diameter match. Plus, I don't know what the ANS program is, but I could gather that it has got something to do with DRDL and BDL. Besides, whatever is being carried in the trailer is safeguarded against vibration, rain, fire and other environmental factors and handled with extreme care.

I think the stages will be carried separately in the trailer and final assembly will be done near the submarine before placing them in the launch tubes.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 05 Jan 2013 00:43

I am most probably right with my speculation there :) .

ANS program stands for DRDO's Advanced Naval Systems Programme which designs (and builds) the K-15/K-4 missiles.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 05 Jan 2013 00:48

I wonder and somewhat admire this DRDOs choli-daman way of divulging secrets. It NEVER officially accepted the K-4 missile. But now it gives out information which a lay-man can put together to understand that the K-4 missile is soon going to be tested, if not deployed.

The same goes for Nirbhay.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vivek_ahuja » 05 Jan 2013 01:45

indranilroy wrote:I wonder and somewhat admire this DRDOs choli-daman way of divulging secrets. It NEVER officially accepted the K-4 missile. But now it gives out information which a lay-man can put together to understand that the K-4 missile is soon going to be tested, if not deployed.

The same goes for Nirbhay.


I was thinking about this as well. Surely things are not that outrageously open at these facilities that they have to put out tenders for trucks like some relocation company moving an IT person's living room from Bangalore to Delhi, right?

I mean, if these are unintentional, god help us and this country!

If they are intentional, the GOI certainly likes to insult the intelligence of the people outside by acting overly sly. Either way, they come of looking stupid IMO.

We know these systems are in development.
We know what platforms they will be deployed on.
We know even what targets they are meant for.
We know the operational requirements for such systems.
We know when they will likely finish these systems.

And by same token
We DON'T want to know their guidance system details
We DON'T want to know specifics about their internal design

And we won't know any of this if you just show us the exterior of the missile or tell us that Missile X has a range Y and takes time Z to fly to it.
What we WILL know is that our country is making progress on issues of national security and that our taxpayer funds are not being blown by the project directors on poker in Vegas.

So what the HELL are they hiding and why?

Agh! I get so frustrated by their antics these days. Sheesh. :evil:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby asbchakri » 05 Jan 2013 03:28

vivek_ahuja wrote:
indranilroy wrote:I wonder and somewhat admire this DRDOs choli-daman way of divulging secrets. It NEVER officially accepted the K-4 missile. But now it gives out information which a lay-man can put together to understand that the K-4 missile is soon going to be tested, if not deployed.

The same goes for Nirbhay.


I was thinking about this as well. Surely things are not that outrageously open at these facilities that they have to put out tenders for trucks like some relocation company moving an IT person's living room from Bangalore to Delhi, right?

I mean, if these are unintentional, god help us and this country!

If they are intentional, the GOI certainly likes to insult the intelligence of the people outside by acting overly sly. Either way, they come of looking stupid IMO.

We know these systems are in development.
We know what platforms they will be deployed on.
We know even what targets they are meant for.
We know the operational requirements for such systems.
We know when they will likely finish these systems.

And by same token
We DON'T want to know their guidance system details
We DON'T want to know specifics about their internal design

And we won't know any of this if you just show us the exterior of the missile or tell us that Missile X has a range Y and takes time Z to fly to it.
What we WILL know is that our country is making progress on issues of national security and that our taxpayer funds are not being blown by the project directors on poker in Vegas.

So what the HELL are they hiding and why?

Agh! I get so frustrated by their antics these days. Sheesh. :evil:



Yes !! Its high time u take out all your fustration in your personal dhaga and blow up a few Chinese bases :evil: :twisted:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby asbchakri » 05 Jan 2013 03:30

indranilroy wrote:hmmm. in that case, here is my speculation.

.............
..............
I think the stages will be carried separately in the trailer and final assembly will be done near the submarine before placing them in the launch tubes.


U mean in the Arihant or in the Pontoon

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 05 Jan 2013 03:49

Ah this semi is not going to be ready before 6 months at least ... So may be a pontoon, may be Arihant ... Or first a pontoon and later on onto Arihant.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 05 Jan 2013 09:24

Two Pinaka variants under development
After the success of the Pinaka multiple rocket launcher, ordnance factories are now developing two more of its variants, Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) chairman Sudhir Kumar Beri said here on Friday.

At present, there are two variants of the Pinaka and efforts are on to develop two more variants that can strike targets at double the existing range. A Detailed Project Report (DPR) was already sent to the government for approval, Mr. Beri said.

This apart, there are plans to enhance the production of the existing Pinaka rocket launchers from 2,000 to 5,000 per annum, he told The Hindu on the sidelines of 42{+n}{+d}All India Ordnance and Ordnance Equipment Factories Annual athletic meet 2012-13 at the Medak ordnance factory.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Shrinivasan » 05 Jan 2013 15:46

^^^ Pinaka numbers are not moving anywhere close to the planned #s, initially it was the non-availability of thungsten balls, now the whole TATRA truck fiasco... Een if OFB magically produces 5K rockets a year, we will not be having enough launchers... Thanks to TATRA and BEML...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vishvak » 05 Jan 2013 16:08

Any idea how far are hubs of Talibarbarians located in Afghanistan from Indian border, including direct distance over PoK?

It should not matter if man and machine flies over PoK to strike pakibans in Afghanistan.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Sagar G » 06 Jan 2013 02:32

vivek_ahuja wrote:Agh! I get so frustrated by their antics these days. Sheesh. :evil:


Let me help you :P :twisted:

Composite pumpjet propulsor

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby shiv » 06 Jan 2013 06:06

vishvak wrote:It should not matter if man and machine flies over PoK to strike pakibans in Afghanistan.

Why would we want to hit them while we hug the Talbarbarians of Islumabad, Kraachi and Lawhore. The latter are worse and are much closer. Unless we are trying to do Amreekas work

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2013 05:59

indranil, Is ADE the lead agency for the K-4/K-15 series?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby pentaiah » 07 Jan 2013 06:33

Mishra dhatu nigam makes tungsten alloys but nobody buys the alloys made there in quantity
It's like another IIT name waste not kam ke waste

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby Indranil » 07 Jan 2013 08:55

ramana wrote:indranil, Is ADE the lead agency for the K-4/K-15 series?


No. ADE's mandate unmanned aerial vehicles, cruise missiles, LGB kit, and flight simulators. [ADE's areas of work]

I have no insider information about K-4/K-15. I was just tracking some people who are now known to be attached to the project. I think this entire Program is being run from Hyderabad. Most probably BDL is the production agency and DRDL is the RnD agency center.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby vishvak » 07 Jan 2013 17:35

shiv wrote:
vishvak wrote:It should not matter if man and machine flies over PoK to strike pakibans in Afghanistan.

Why would we want to hit them while we hug the Talbarbarians of Islumabad, Kraachi and Lawhore. The latter are worse and are much closer. Unless we are trying to do Amreekas work

A direct assult over PoK will not affect India directly and Indians don't need to react to anyone's accusations as enemy the way others make it appear so. US has nothing to lose to talibans in Afghanistan so any equation set by US do not matter to Afghanistan directly as it is. What matters much more is whether assaults/attacks on talibarbarians would help in restoring peace in Afghanistan so any credibility given to any pakibans and other talibarbarians by way of talks etc is relative and less in importance to restoring peace and adding to prosperity in Afghanistan always.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby James B » 08 Jan 2013 00:32

Agni Missiles: More than what meets the eye?

Agni missiles, Agni-III and Agni-V are quite possibly full-fledged ICBMs masquerading as IRBMs.


http://defenceforumindia.com/agni-missi ... e-eye-1496

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Postby member_23370 » 08 Jan 2013 02:09

People like Arun_S have been alluding to this for a while but I see no reason to draw attention to it. 5500-6000 km pretty much covers India's current needs.


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