PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

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vina
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by vina »

The Chinese with their throw their money into risky frontier places like Africa and unstable parts of S. America , seem to have been badly burnt.

For eg, they are said to have pumped $50 Billion into Venezuela , which was already in the stinkiest Pakistan and now with oil prices plunging, is dead broke and the Chinese can kiss their $50b goodbye.. Now where does that show up in the Chinese balance sheet and which bank(s)/ govt balance sheet took that write down, I'd like to see.

And also, the Chinese stock market has risen to dizzying heights too soon, too fast, pumped up by local Chinese who have no other place to put their savings in, now that real estate has gone to Pakistan there. The margin trading driven boom is going to end badly there (Chinese 50 cent ers are going to come and say predict, when and how much, that cannot be exactly predicted, but you KNOW how it will all end, the rest is a matter of timing and detail which is random).
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by ashi »

vina wrote:The Chinese with their throw their money into risky frontier places like Africa and unstable parts of S. America , seem to have been badly burnt.

For eg, they are said to have pumped $50 Billion into Venezuela , which was already in the stinkiest Pakistan and now with oil prices plunging, is dead broke and the Chinese can kiss their $50b goodbye.. Now where does that show up in the Chinese balance sheet and which bank(s)/ govt balance sheet took that write down, I'd like to see.

And also, the Chinese stock market has risen to dizzying heights too soon, too fast, pumped up by local Chinese who have no other place to put their savings in, now that real estate has gone to Pakistan there. The margin trading driven boom is going to end badly there (Chinese 50 cent ers are going to come and say predict, when and how much, that cannot be exactly predicted, but you KNOW how it will all end, the rest is a matter of timing and detail which is random).
A pile of green papers to exchange for natural resources, I think that's a good deal. Vina you haven't predicted/said *anything* right about China in the last 10 years, I will take the opinion from those you called "Chinese 50 cent ers" over yours.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Theo_Fidel »

China’s Productivity Problem Drags on Growth
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/09/ ... on-growth/
China’s productivity is slipping away, the miracle days are largely over and the best way for Beijing to slow its slide into “the middle-income trap” is through meaningful structural reform, two reports argue, a process that has so far remained largely in the slow lane.
China’s 1% average annual growth in total factor productivity between 1978 and 2012 – a period when average per capita annual incomes rose from $2,000 to $8,000 — compares with 4% annual gains for Japan during its comparable 1950-1970 high-growth period, 3% for Taiwan from 1966-1990 and 2% for South Korea from 1966-1990, he said, when purchasing power in the relative economies is taken into account.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Austin »

China is growing only at a maximum of 4%

http://rt.com/shows/boom-bust/232323-gr ... us-market/
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by panduranghari »

Rahul M wrote:someone please explain to this econ novice.

what exactly are the downsides for PRC if they devalue the yuan ?
1.The rest of the world would slow, perhaps sharply, as a consequence of China’s lower growth.
2.There would be a crisis in the Chinese financial system, which would spread to the global financial system. China is too big compared to puny Switzerland or bankrupt Denmark or zombie Sweden.
3.Political instability would emerge in China as unemployment surges.


The Chinese are trying to rebalance their economy and hope that 3rd plenum reforms will achieve that. Any growth rate below 6% is considered as hard landing in China. For them to let it drop to 6% or below - as a consequence of the devaluation - will mean less spending by Chinese within China leading to fall in demand within China (which they are trying to increase desperately). From current 9% growth rate to 6% rate, the PBoC needs to transfer 3% of its GDP from state to households to keep the rebalancing controlled. That is almost impossible as Chinese will increase household savings as they see jobs become scarce. This will again increase Chinese current account surplus which the Chinese will want to deploy overseas which leads to bubbles elsewhere. They also haven't got much time to make this happen.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by panduranghari »

rsingh wrote:Yes but US can print dollah and rule the world.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/opini ... ollar.html
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by chola »

Mark my word, this might possibly be the biggest news of the PRC economy as it relates to Bharat. Just as Mercedes, BMW and GM rode the the number one chini car market to their world leading position, Bollywood can ride the chini box office to a dominant position.

The only reason Hollywood lords it over global cinema is because of the US market being dominant. Once the chinese market overtakes the US one, Hollywood loses its grip. Though at the moment, Hollywood flick dominate a good half of the Chinese charts. But change is in the air and Bollywood can challenge far effectively in a large non-white market.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/c ... -us-778499

China Monthly Box Office Tops U.S. for First Time Ever


by Clifford Coonan
3/2/2015 1:15am PST

Chinese box-office revenue edged ahead of the United States in February for the first time ever as a record Lunar New Year bonanza brought in $650 million in the second-largest movie market, according to data from research firm Entgroup.

The North American box office for February came in at $710 million, but once Canada was stripped out, the figure was $640 million, making China the biggest box-office market in the world for the month, the firm said.


http://www.desimartini.com/news/bollywo ... e18409.htm

Bollywood News
PK to enthrall Chinese audience

Filmmaker Rajkumar Hirani recently returned from China, where his -latest release PK is slated for a grand release, and is overwhelmed with the love he received there. Hirani says, "I visited China recently and was humbled by the warmth and -appreciation coming from everyone there."

According to a source, "Hirani had visited the country because his film is expected to release in 3,500 screens there. And his earlier release, 3 Idiots, was also released there to great opening and ran for almost a month in theatres there," adds the source, "He was floored to see that even after five years people still remember 3 Idiots and that has led to a lot of curiosity around PK."

Reportedly, he met a few distributors and friends, who told him that "Chinese audiences have been keeping a track of PK-related news through social media too", informs the source.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

chola wrote:Mark my word, this might possibly be the biggest news of the PRC economy as it relates to Bharat. Just as Mercedes, BMW and GM rode the the number one chini car market to their world leading position, Bollywood can ride the chini box office to a dominant position.

The only reason Hollywood lords it over global cinema is because of the US market being dominant. Once the chinese market overtakes the US one, Hollywood loses its grip. Though at the moment, Hollywood flick dominate a good half of the Chinese charts. But change is in the air and Bollywood can challenge far effectively in a large non-white market.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/c ... -us-778499

China Monthly Box Office Tops U.S. for First Time Ever


by Clifford Coonan
3/2/2015 1:15am PST

Chinese box-office revenue edged ahead of the United States in February for the first time ever as a record Lunar New Year bonanza brought in $650 million in the second-largest movie market, according to data from research firm Entgroup.

The North American box office for February came in at $710 million, but once Canada was stripped out, the figure was $640 million, making China the biggest box-office market in the world for the month, the firm said.


http://www.desimartini.com/news/bollywo ... e18409.htm

Bollywood News
PK to enthrall Chinese audience

Filmmaker Rajkumar Hirani recently returned from China, where his -latest release PK is slated for a grand release, and is overwhelmed with the love he received there. Hirani says, "I visited China recently and was humbled by the warmth and -appreciation coming from everyone there."

According to a source, "Hirani had visited the country because his film is expected to release in 3,500 screens there. And his earlier release, 3 Idiots, was also released there to great opening and ran for almost a month in theatres there," adds the source, "He was floored to see that even after five years people still remember 3 Idiots and that has led to a lot of curiosity around PK."

Reportedly, he met a few distributors and friends, who told him that "Chinese audiences have been keeping a track of PK-related news through social media too", informs the source.

so,metriced not only with electricity consumption,auto sale,house sale,but also
with even box office ,chinese economy now is larger than USA. In fact,Nominal Gdp might be the sole indicator showing Usa's economy is still larger than china.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Suraj »

How much is an average movie ticket in China ?
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by gashish »

~100-120 RMB at prime time in Shanghai in a multiplex in mall.

Very distracting experience I have had. Audio is jarringly loud. half the people are checking stuff on their smartphones.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Suraj »

Thats about $20, or Rs. 1200 . Seems very expensive. No wonder the receipts are also high. Festival season, prime time shows, pricey tickets and a lot of people willing to overpay.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by gashish »

It is, but again this data point is from the movie hall in posh area in already expensive city. Average across china could be 20-30% lower ~70-80RMB.

Typically, in my experience, foreign brands/products/experiences tend to be priced 20-40% higher than in US.
Earl grey brewed tea in Starbucks Shanghai is 18RMB (~2.9 USD), while the same in California is 2.25 USD.
However, I am surprised to see Starbucks stores are everywhere and each one of them fully crowded most of the time, especially given the average salary in Shanghai as per govt. sources is ~5000 RMB/month.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by cdbatra »

US expert eyes China ‘crackup’
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003613052
A US Department of State official refused to comment for the Taipei Times, but said that Shambaugh’s “warning words” were being read with “great interest.”

The academic gives five “telling indications” of what he calls the regime’s vulnerability and the party’s systemic weaknesses.

First, China’s economic elites have one foot out of the door and are ready to flee en masse if the system begins to crumble,” he wrote. “It is a telling sign of lack of confidence in the regime and the country’s future.
Would'nt it be appropriate if GoI offers special targeted incentives for chinese capital now. We may get some of these net outflows. We should do this without selling our family silver ofcourse just big show bazzi junks like Taj Mahal for couple of billion should do. Let abduls cry foul.
Why only let Honolulu and Manhattan benefit.
Last edited by cdbatra on 08 Mar 2015 09:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Gus »

gashish wrote: However, I am surprised to see Starbucks stores are everywhere and each one of them fully crowded most of the time, especially given the average salary in Shanghai as per govt. sources is ~5000 RMB/month.
high population, so even if only a few percent make double than 5000, there are enough numbers to sustain many high end shops.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

Gus wrote:
gashish wrote: However, I am surprised to see Starbucks stores are everywhere and each one of them fully crowded most of the time, especially given the average salary in Shanghai as per govt. sources is ~5000 RMB/month.
high population, so even if only a few percent make double than 5000, there are enough numbers to sustain many high end shops.
According to my personal experience, the average life quality of PRC is quite close to many countrie with per capitia Nominal GDP of 10-15k USD,such as turkey . The real life quality of richer areas,such as coastal China ,is almost equal to many 20-30k Usd economies,such as Spain,taiwan,s.korea.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by sanjaykumar »

I think you mean standard of living. Quality of life includes parameters such as political freedom, pollution levels, quality control of food, access to government services from nursery schools to nursing homes, hospital services, social welfare services. Affording an American iphone is a small part of the equation.

China has much work to do.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by gashish »

+1

Add, religious freedom, civil rights.

I personally know many Chinese colleagues who secretly follow Buddhism/ have buddha temple within their homes.

However, there is one area in which china has excelled is women empowerment, participation of women in work-force and hence economy - better than most western countries, a positive side-effect of breaking down centuries old patriarchal and feudal systems during Mao's revolution.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by DavidD »

Parameters such as religious/political/civil freedoms are pretty subjective, most people in China for example don't really care about them, at least not nearly to the extent they care about the air/water pollution and quality of food. With that said, seems like more and more in China are beginning to care about civil rights now, e.g. freedom of speech, rule of law, etc. Younger folks don't like having to watch what they say lest their carefully thought out online posts be deleted in a nanosecond, and as people have more and more wealth and assets, they've become more keen on protecting them. Religious and political freedom are still on the backburner though.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by sanjaykumar »

And so commences the disintegration of another nominally Marxist empire.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Rishirishi »

Gus wrote:
gashish wrote: However, I am surprised to see Starbucks stores are everywhere and each one of them fully crowded most of the time, especially given the average salary in Shanghai as per govt. sources is ~5000 RMB/month.
high population, so even if only a few percent make double than 5000, there are enough numbers to sustain many high end shops.
I think one would need about 20 000 RMB per month to lead a western lifestyle. Car, flat, AC, kids in school, iphone and a holiday. I have found shanghai to be expensiver then Greece and Portugal. Even US is probably cheaper. Having said this people have to work really hard and only a few make that much. Most end up with low pay and strugle.

As compared to Indian large cities, the chinease cities are cleaner and better managed. But I think the Standard of living is pretty much the same. Basically very hard life and people get sick young.

China will have another problem of ageing. The one child policy may put a huge medical burden on the single child. The kids have to cover cost of 4 grand parents and 2 parents (in worst case).
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Rishirishi »

DavidD wrote:Parameters such as religious/political/civil freedoms are pretty subjective, most people in China for example don't really care about them, at least not nearly to the extent they care about the air/water pollution and quality of food. With that said, seems like more and more in China are beginning to care about civil rights now, e.g. freedom of speech, rule of law, etc. Younger folks don't like having to watch what they say lest their carefully thought out online posts be deleted in a nanosecond, and as people have more and more wealth and assets, they've become more keen on protecting them. Religious and political freedom are still on the backburner though.
People who have not been to China think of china as a communist dictatorship like they had in Stalin times. Actually people do as they please, just like in India. As for freedom of speach , who owns the media in india and how free is it really. News in India is all about Dhamaka, and little substance.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by gashish »

^^ People in China do have substantial individual freedom, what they lack is "collective" freedom. You can criticize politicians/bureaucrats(though much more muted than what you see in India) as an individual; what you cannot do is organize or mobilize collective criticism/protest.

Thats why HK protests were total no-no. Every time foreign news channels like BBC/CNN covered the news about HK protests on Chinese cable television, the broadcast used to go blank - just black screen. It was amusing in a way to see that kind of paranoia.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

Rishirishi wrote:
Gus wrote: high population, so even if only a few percent make double than 5000, there are enough numbers to sustain many high end shops.
I think one would need about 20 000 RMB per month to lead a western lifestyle. Car, flat, AC, kids in school, iphone and a holiday. I have found shanghai to be expensiver then Greece and Portugal. Even US is probably cheaper. Having said this people have to work really hard and only a few make that much. Most end up with low pay and strugle.

As compared to Indian large cities, the chinease cities are cleaner and better managed. But I think the Standard of living is pretty much the same. Basically very hard life and people get sick young.

China will have another problem of ageing. The one child policy may put a huge medical burden on the single child. The kids have to cover cost of 4 grand parents and 2 parents (in worst case).
well, the average monthly salary of taiwanese/S.korea might be about 1000-1400usd), about 2 times of that of PRC(500-700USD),while Taiwanese/S.korea per capita GDP is 20-25k USD,about 3 times of PRC. Thus ,case is very simple: either Taiwanese/s.korea GDP is overrated or PRC's GDP is underrated. in fact, the real life quality of taiwanese has been overtaken by many rich PRC areas such as Yangtz river Delta and Pearl Delta(for example,Zhejiang province nominal Per capita Gdp is usualy only 1/2-2/3 of Taiwanese,but people there earn more and can afford larger house,better car,better food and save more than taiwanese, can anyone explain it?)
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

gashish wrote:^^ People in China do have substantial individual freedom, what they lack is "collective" freedom. You can criticize politicians/bureaucrats(though much more muted than what you see in India) as an individual; what you cannot do is organize or mobilize collective criticism/protest.

Thats why HK protests were total no-no. Every time foreign news channels like BBC/CNN covered the news about HK protests on Chinese cable television, the broadcast used to go blank - just black screen. It was amusing in a way to see that kind of paranoia.
Well, just imgine how would Brahman feel , when brahmans suddenly find that their would have become poorer than sudra,whose income was only 1/20-1/30 of theirs just 10 years ago????
Depressed? Angry? helpless?? morelike a complex of all above....

that is exactly how many Hongkongese feel now ,when they face sooo many rich CHinese tourists,who are showing their wealth by shopping in Hongkong while their income was only 1/20 or 1/30 of ornidary hongkongese.

Just 10 years ago,Most Hongkongese/Taiwanese/oversea CHinese had a Brahman-like superiority complex ,while facing mainland CHinese,because mainland CHinese were much poorer and their average income was only 1/20-1/30 of Hongkongese/Taiwanese.....
but now,the world was turned down and "Sudra-like" mainland CHinese are new-rich now and shopping everywhere but "Brahman"-like Hongkongese/Taiwanese have to serve for those "sudra-like" mainland newrich.........

:rotfl:

so.....hehe,do you still think that HOngkongese/taiwanese no-no in streets are fight for "democracy" /Freedom or desperate fight to resume their old brahman-like dignity in the front of mainland CHinese?
Last edited by Liu on 12 Mar 2015 19:51, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by member_25985 »

I am not sure about individual freedoms. I could access neither Facebook nor Twitter in a five star hotel in Beijing. Emails and chat messengers worked just fine. Reddit opened after a long time and that too as a text only page. Censorship in China is not in your face but its presence can definitely be felt.

Both Beijing and Shanghai have limousine taxi service ala Newark, where drivers wait at a separate exit. Mumbai and Delhi still don't have one. The roads from international airports to the CBD (where all the major hotels are) are absolutely stunning. It could put any western city to shame. No red lights!! In Delhi, once you land at T3, within half a kilometer you get greeted by a 3 minute light. Next comes Dhaula Kuan, where you can finish the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. What I am getting at is planning. Chinese cities definitely have the feel of planning and thought about them.

Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Hainan Province are much cleaner compared to Indian cities. I found Chinese cities to be quite expensive, in some cases even compared to the US. The rich in China are filthy rich (even by western standards)!! Unlike the past, they aren’t scared to display their wealth either. The Shanghai CBD just came alive after work hours. Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, Designer clothes, Gelled men with skinny ladies in tow all made an entrance after the working class went home. Even in the remote Hainan province, all taxis are Volkswagen Passat!!

But then these days Delhi too has its Audi culture :)

Also unlike India I think the Chinese tend to hide their poverty. No hawkers, beggars, street urchins or filth can be found in CBD areas. But just take a walk a few streets away and you'll know the truth.

I was stuck in a transit hotel for two days because of heavy rains - Food and Language are still a big problem outside five star hotels.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

ManavBH wrote:I am not sure about individual freedoms. I could access neither Facebook nor Twitter in a five star hotel in Beijing. Emails and chat messengers worked just fine. Reddit opened after a long time and that too as a text only page. Censorship in China is not in your face but its presence can definitely be felt.

Both Beijing and Shanghai have limousine taxi service ala Newark, where drivers wait at a separate exit. Mumbai and Delhi still don't have one. The roads from international airports to the CBD (where all the major hotels are) are absolutely stunning. It could put any western city to shame. No red lights!! In Delhi, once you land at T3, within half a kilometer you get greeted by a 3 minute light. Next comes Dhaula Kuan, where you can finish the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. What I am getting at is planning. Chinese cities definitely have the feel of planning and thought about them.

Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Hainan Province are much cleaner compared to Indian cities. I found Chinese cities to be quite expensive, in some cases even compared to the US. The rich in China are filthy rich (even by western standards)!! Unlike the past, they aren’t scared to display their wealth either. The Shanghai CBD just came alive after work hours. Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, Designer clothes, Gelled men with skinny ladies in tow all made an entrance after the working class went home. Even in the remote Hainan province, all taxis are Volkswagen Passat!!

But then these days Delhi too has its Audi culture :)

Also unlike India I think the Chinese tend to hide their poverty. No hawkers, beggars, street urchins or filth can be found in CBD areas. But just take a walk a few streets away and you'll know the truth.



I was stuck in a transit hotel for two days because of heavy rains - Food and Language are still a big problem outside five star hotels.
you should have visited more CHinese cities/villages ,before you expessed your oppions on CHina...

your words are misleading indians here,who have not been to CHina,while you don't learn much about CHina.hehe.

BTW, the howers.beggars full of street might can hardly be find in east asia, even in much poorer Vietnam.so, don't be so surprised not to have found beggars in CHIna.


CHinese social/politica system assures that almost all CHinese peasants(including peasant workers working in urban areas) have their own piece of land in their homevillages,which can provide basic accomodation and food for them,even when their career urban fail.

so, it unneccessory for CHinese poor like peasants to beg in steets,while they have their own house and piece of land in homevillages.


Indian society system can not assure indian peasants of their own piece of land and house ,so many of them have to rush into slums and beg in street when their career fail .....
that is why india is full of slums and beggars in streets

then,why CHinese social sytem can assure peasants of their own land while india can not???

that is because CHinese(in face the whole east asia) experienced a revoluation after WWII while india(the whold south asia) did not.


that is why beggars can not be found in east asia even in Vietnam while india( the whold south asia) are full of street beggars.

do indian friends rethink why CHInese peasant needn't beg when many of them accuse CHina of "aucocracy"...etc???
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by hnair »

Liu, on your part, stop trying to demotivate a poster who actually travelled to China. We want to hear him, even if he just pooped in Chengdu's transit lounge and got back in the flight
that is why beggars can not be found in east asia even in Vietnam while india( the whold south asia) are full of street beggars.
There are beggars aplenty in "east asia", because I am assuming the peoples whom I gave a dollar or two, did not return it with contempt. Now, I know not all places are as free or equal as China, but how come there are beggars in US, Europe and even in scandinivia?
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by member_25985 »

Liu, on your part, stop trying to demotivate a poster who actually travelled to China. We want to hear him, even if he just pooped in Chengdu's transit lounge and got back in the flight

Hnairji I may have conveyed the wrong impression here - I spent 2 weeks in China. Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai and Hainan Province.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by saip »

ManavBH wrote:Liu, on your part, stop trying to demotivate a poster who actually travelled to China. We want to hear him, even if he just pooped in Chengdu's transit lounge and got back in the flight

Hnairji I may have conveyed the wrong impression here - I spent 2 weeks in China. Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai and Hainan Province.
That has always been the problem with the Chinese posters. The moment you say something against China (from your experience) they come out of the woodwork denying and arguing. It does not matter that you said 9 good things and only one bad thing about their country. When I visited China I could not access BRF from any of the Hotels (four different hotels) I stayed. The only time I could access was when I was in expat compound or used Remote desktop. On top of that the hotels always had the disclaimer that my internet activity will be reported to the Government. When I mentioned that one of the Chinese posters took umbrage and practically called me a liar. So you wonder if they can post to this board whether they are paid by their government to defend the 'fair' name of their country.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by member_25985 »

SaiPji completely agree. I couldn't access BRF either. From any of the places I mentioned in my post above....
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

ManavBH wrote:Liu, on your part, stop trying to demotivate a poster who actually travelled to China. We want to hear him, even if he just pooped in Chengdu's transit lounge and got back in the flight

Hnairji I may have conveyed the wrong impression here - I spent 2 weeks in China. Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai and Hainan Province.
well, CHina is a continent-size country. one guy can hardly get a proper impresssion on CHina during weeks .

besides, CHina is a rapidly-developing country.
the change in one Chinese city during 5 years is usually much more that during 20 years in one west city.

BTW, Shangahi and Bejing are tier1 cities but Hainan is not a well-developed province.
Last edited by Liu on 12 Mar 2015 19:48, edited 1 time in total.
Liu
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Liu »

ManavBH wrote:SaiPji completely agree. I couldn't access BRF either. From any of the places I mentioned in my post above....
well, I am surfing BRF at home,with the net run by "CHina mobile"

however, when I stay in my office with the net run by "China telecom", I usually fail to surf BRF..

it might depend on the net operators.


BTW, the interent surf in CHinese hotels usualy are supervised and monitored specially not only by police and other security administration,but also by hotels themselves.
hnair
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by hnair »

Liu wrote: well, CHina is a continent-size country. one guy can hardly get a proper impresssion on CHina during weeks .
True, so does a chinese trying to troll using "brahmin", "shudra" et al, after a study-class
saip
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by saip »

Liu wrote:
ManavBH wrote:SaiPji completely agree. I couldn't access BRF either. From any of the places I mentioned in my post above....
well, I am surfing BRF at home,with the net run by "CHina mobile"

however, when I stay in my office with the net run by "China telecom", I usually fail to surf BRF..

it might depend on the net operators.


BTW, the interent surf in CHinese hotels usualy are supervised and monitored specially not only by police and other security administration,but also by hotels themselves.
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn for your explanation. I should be able to surf the internet with minimum interference from where ever I stay. I still believe you are a troll paid by your country.
Gus
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Gus »

>>Censorship in China is not in your face but its presence can definitely be felt.

long ago an artical was posted here about how censorship works..they don't ban something all the time, as they know this will drive people to find another way immediately. what they do is, ban it sometime and let it go sometime..apparently this makes people get frustrated and give up in a kind of 'why bother, maybe later'
Suraj
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Suraj »

Liu wrote:
ManavBH wrote:Liu, on your part, stop trying to demotivate a poster who actually travelled to China. We want to hear him, even if he just pooped in Chengdu's transit lounge and got back in the flight.[
well, CHina is a continent-size country. one guy can hardly get a proper impresssion on CHina during weeks .
This is a thread about China. Stop beating down people who've actually been there and wish to write about it. If you don't like what they write, that's your problem. For someone who's never been to India at all, you write a lot about India and even 'brahman & sudra' stuff, half of which doesn't even make sense as an analogy in modern India anyway. Not that you'd know.

So, here's an informal warning - leave people alone to write about their China experiences. Do not badger them. Further trolling will earn you a vacation from the site to contemplate your anti-proletariat splittist tendencies and perform re-education.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by gashish »

Liu wrote:
ManavBH wrote:Liu, on your part, stop trying to demotivate a poster who actually travelled to China. We want to hear him, even if he just pooped in Chengdu's transit lounge and got back in the flight

Hnairji I may have conveyed the wrong impression here - I spent 2 weeks in China. Hong Kong, Beijing, Shanghai and Hainan Province.
well, CHina is a continent-size country. one guy can hardly get a proper impresssion on CHina during weeks .

besides, CHina is a rapidly-developing country.
the change in one Chinese city during 5 years is usually much more that during 20 years in one west city.

BTW, Shangahi and Bejing are tier1 cities but Hainan is not a well-developed province.

Liu, I *live* in Shanghai, and been living there for last 2 years. I have traveled across the length and breadth of China, including tier 2/3 cities and also a village.

I can bet that you have never been to India, otherwise you wouldn't show your ignorance by bringing in strawmen arguments like brahman/sudra. If most mainland Chinese think like you -HK protests are not about democracy/freedom but about some complex, then why ban news about it in mainland?

BRF, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, slideshare, blogs cannot be accessed directly be it on China mobile or China unicom network. Many expats and even Chinese who like to watch American TV use VPN to tunnel out of the chinese censorship. Why lie about and hide such basic facts that can be easily verified? This prickly pride quickly betrays the inadequacies that your are trying to hide.
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by DavidD »

ManavBH wrote:I am not sure about individual freedoms. I could access neither Facebook nor Twitter in a five star hotel in Beijing. Emails and chat messengers worked just fine. Reddit opened after a long time and that too as a text only page. Censorship in China is not in your face but its presence can definitely be felt.

Both Beijing and Shanghai have limousine taxi service ala Newark, where drivers wait at a separate exit. Mumbai and Delhi still don't have one. The roads from international airports to the CBD (where all the major hotels are) are absolutely stunning. It could put any western city to shame. No red lights!! In Delhi, once you land at T3, within half a kilometer you get greeted by a 3 minute light. Next comes Dhaula Kuan, where you can finish the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. What I am getting at is planning. Chinese cities definitely have the feel of planning and thought about them.

Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Hainan Province are much cleaner compared to Indian cities. I found Chinese cities to be quite expensive, in some cases even compared to the US. The rich in China are filthy rich (even by western standards)!! Unlike the past, they aren’t scared to display their wealth either. The Shanghai CBD just came alive after work hours. Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, Designer clothes, Gelled men with skinny ladies in tow all made an entrance after the working class went home. Even in the remote Hainan province, all taxis are Volkswagen Passat!!

But then these days Delhi too has its Audi culture :)

Also unlike India I think the Chinese tend to hide their poverty. No hawkers, beggars, street urchins or filth can be found in CBD areas. But just take a walk a few streets away and you'll know the truth.

I was stuck in a transit hotel for two days because of heavy rains - Food and Language are still a big problem outside five star hotels.
That sounds about right. Also, for those who're still wondering if BH is censored in China, it is, at least through regular broadband. I tried to access BH in a couple of cities, including Beijing, and it's definitely censored. Facebook, youtube, etc. are censored too, but there are Chinese versions for all of them so the people don't miss them much, and most of them know how to get around the firewall anyway. As for beggars, I saw plenty on the Beijing metro, kinda like in New York. Apparently they're almost like a unionized industry, they have a pool of orphans that "mothers" would carry around to gain sympathy. Pretty shady stuff.
DavidD
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by DavidD »

Gus wrote:>>Censorship in China is not in your face but its presence can definitely be felt.

long ago an artical was posted here about how censorship works..they don't ban something all the time, as they know this will drive people to find another way immediately. what they do is, ban it sometime and let it go sometime..apparently this makes people get frustrated and give up in a kind of 'why bother, maybe later'
Maybe that was true before, but I think it's different now. The most popular websites are banned at all times (e.g. Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, NY Times, etc.), all other non-Chinese websites (CNN, The Diplomat, etc.) load very, very, very slowly. BH must be pretty popular since it's banned at all times as well :rotfl:
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Post by Rishirishi »

I have travelled at least 7-8 times to China. First time being in 2001.

Let me say this, Chinease government is very active on discussion boards with their propoganda. I am sure they know about BRF and have many active members here. Firstly to mine information and secondly to promote and uplift the reputation of China.
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