PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

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gakakkad
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 29 Mar 2012 17:03

baidu search of BO Xilai.

http://www.baidu.com/s?wd=%B1%A1%CE%F5% ... nputT=1644


根据相关法律法规和政策,部分搜索结果未予显示

translation

Accordance with relevant laws, regulations and policies, part of the search results were not show.


gakakkad
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 29 Mar 2012 17:09

http://forum.dwnews.com/threadshow.php?tid=929434

A chinese forum , where they criticise CCP..

TRANSLATED QUOTE of an anon poster


China's biggest shortcoming is the one-party system, without supervision. Monitor themselves only feasible in the case. That is, there are other forces pose a threat to their survival. For example, Wang Lijun case, regardless of the official talk about, even though some may be true, can not believe, because they fail to prove. You said today was uncovered Wang Lijun engage in torture to extract confessions, but this came to light itself may be a fake. Wen Qiang, before his death say they are deserved, but he also said that he knew than his darker, more corruption, his death will not expose, because if he told the truth, his wife and son with him to death. Wen Qiang died 4 hours closeted with the Wang Lijun, and told Wang Lijun, his fate will be worse than their own. Blacks worse, certainly not Bo Xilai, that he who would be? Communist China in the reform and development process, the size of the officials took the opportunity to corruption, and from generation to generation, the more the greater the greed, getting dark, and the power struggle within the bucket constantly, but also to deceive the people for their political stand and support. The drawbacks of one-party system more clearly the situation Chu, way out of China is democratic reform, if not changed, official corruption and the disparity between the rich and the poor social contradictions will become increasingly intense struggle within the Communist Party as the struggle for power will become increasingly sinister , resulting in continuous social unrest. Go on like this the people will rebel.



There is a joke going round in some panda forums-

Prison

Prisoner 1 -- I am here for opposing bo

Prisoner 2- I am here for supporting bo

Both 1 & 2 to prisoner 3.

What are you here for ?

Prisoner 3: I am Bo


recommended browser for viewing -- g chachas chrome...

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby sudarshan » 29 Mar 2012 20:17

Theo_Fidel wrote:The key question is can Japan use the same justification when it went all punk a$$ on China. After all it desperately needed resources and the ends justify the means....


Very good question. Let's build on that, shall we? Why do the Chinese keep complaining about the "two centuries of humiliation" or whatever at the hands of the Europeans? The Europeans got what they wanted - they got rich off of China. The ends justify the means, no? If any Europeans were uncomfortable with the way their brothers were treating the Chinese, all they had to do was emigrate (to China? LOL). Or maybe "ends justifying the means" only applies to the Chinese?

More to the point - if tomorrow, some other imperial power, like the USA were to take over China (God forbid, and all that), and to begin plundering China all over again, would that be ok, since the "ends justify the means?" After all, Americans are getting rich, and that should be a desirable end for them, no? If any Americans are uncomfortable with treating the Chinese that way, all they have to do is emigrate (instead of protesting against their government policies). Would that be ok with you Chinese?

Dear Chinese, when you steal IP from others who have worked hard to develop it, you do cause a net loss for them. So whose ends justify the means? Yours, or theirs? Their ends are negative because of your means.

Well, we in India have these concepts that only righteousness will triumph, and truth will be victorious, etc. No doubt China also imbibed those concepts, through their already existent Confucianism, or through Buddhism, which spread from India. Here's something for you Chinese posters to think about. The old concepts of righteousness and truth, are the *same thing* as your "ends justify the means," just that these concepts think about the ends thousands of years later, as opposed to you guys, who think of short term ends ten or twenty years down the road. In other words, if you want the ends to be favorable to you even thousands of years down the line, you *have to* abide by the concepts of righteousness and truth.

My guess is, that India and China managed to survive for thousands of years, through Islamic and European depredations, because of our commitment to righteousness. Those are the desirable ends. India today is trying to stay true to those ideals. China is not. We'll see how the ends turn out.

Sudarshan

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Raja Bose » 29 Mar 2012 21:12

I think biladel wong is being le-educated in a dark corner by other biladels and undergoing self-criticism for flubbing his lines.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 21:20

Yes, Japan did get punk a$$ on China and it got Nuked directly for it => TWICE. Quick history lesson: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response, US fires bombs Japan to hell using incendiaries and tops it off with two fresh Nukes. Sounds good to me. I think the Japanese learned their lesson and I don't think they are going to go punk a$$ on anybody else in our lifetimes.

None of this changes my point. Most, if not all, of Japan's major economic achievements were during a pre-war military dictatorship, post-war military occupation or 1 Party post-war government. Colonialism in China/Japan/Asia has nothing to do with it and isn't even relevant to this discussion. You guys LOVE straw men. The people in Japan and Korea don't care how they became rich, just that they are rich. Park Chung-Hee isn't even talked about in Korea today, even though they owe him everything. Remember, South Korea in 1955 was poorer than EVERYBODY and what Curtis LeMay did to Korean civilians was genocide.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 29 Mar 2012 21:40

Wong,

Why you no emigrate if you no like Japan in China?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby sudarshan » 29 Mar 2012 21:48

wong wrote:Yes, Japan did get punk a$$ on China and it got Nuked directly for it => TWICE. Quick history lesson: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response, US fires bombs Japan to hell using incendiaries and tops it off with two fresh Nukes. Sounds good to me. I think the Japanese learned their lesson and I don't think they are going to go punk a$$ on anybody else in our lifetimes.



This is exactly what Indians are trying to tell you. China steals IP/proliferates nukes/occupies Tibet etc. saying "ends justify means." China will similarly go down as a direct consequence of these actions. Your actions are already causing the rest of the world to band together against you. Remains to be seen what the sequence of events is, which will be explained to future generations as a "quick history lesson."

Sudarshan

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 29 Mar 2012 21:55

Nice historical revisionism going on here. Japan had nukes dropped on it because it invaded China ? :roll: Had they just stuck to invading China and not attacked the US on Dec 7 1941, they'd have just been left to loot the mainland, as they were generally enabled to do for an entire decade from the early 1930s. From a Chinese perspective there wasn't any such thing as WW2 - there had been fullscale warfare going on around the country since a decade prior, including such events as Chang Zheng (long march) and subsequently the Mukden (Shenyang) Incident and Japanese takeover. Too bad Tojo and co didn't take heed of Adm.Yamamoto's warning about waking up a sleeping giant (the US).

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 22:00

Theo_Fidel wrote:Wong,

Why you no emigrate if you no like Japan in China?


What's up with the Ching Chong English??

Is that the state of Indian education ???

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 22:06

Suraj wrote:Nice historical revisionism going on here. Japan had nukes dropped on it because it invaded China ? :roll: Had they just stuck to invading China and not attacked the US on Dec 7 1941, they'd have just been left to loot the mainland, as they were generally enabled to do for an entire decade from the early 1930s. From a Chinese perspective there wasn't any such thing as WW2 - there had been fullscale warfare going on around the country since a decade prior, including such events as Chang Zheng (long march) and subsequently the Mukden (Shenyang) Incident and Japanese takeover. Too bad Tojo and co didn't take heed of Adm.Yamamoto's warning about waking up a sleeping giant (the US).


Yes, but why did Pearl Harbor happen?? The Japanese just like to randomly attack the world's greatest industrial power of its day??

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 22:09

sudarshan wrote:
wong wrote:Yes, Japan did get punk a$$ on China and it got Nuked directly for it => TWICE. Quick history lesson: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response, US fires bombs Japan to hell using incendiaries and tops it off with two fresh Nukes. Sounds good to me. I think the Japanese learned their lesson and I don't think they are going to go punk a$$ on anybody else in our lifetimes.



This is exactly what Indians are trying to tell you. China steals IP/proliferates nukes/occupies Tibet etc. saying "ends justify means." China will similarly go down as a direct consequence of these actions. Your actions are already causing the rest of the world to band together against you. Remains to be seen what the sequence of events is, which will be explained to future generations as a "quick history lesson."

Sudarshan


And who's embargoing China because Tibetans like to self-immolate?? Last I heard every Tibetan in India is under house arrest right now.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 29 Mar 2012 22:14

the chinese posters are largely silent on the bo xilai incident.. may be they are not authorised to speak.. may be they fear , the famous luxury van .

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 29 Mar 2012 22:16

wong wrote:Yes, but why did Pearl Harbor happen?? The Japanese just like to randomly attack the world's greatest industrial power of its day??

As much as the US had interests in China and more so elsewhere around the PacRim (e.g. Philippines), it wasn't prepared to initiate war with Japan over it at the time. Domestic political opinion of the kind now enabling such wars did not exist then, more so in the aftermath of the Great Depression. If anything, it had far more interests in Europe, yet stayed out until after Pearl Harbor. History shows that while the US was a willing material contributor to the allied cause in both WW1 and WW2, it took a major attack (e.g. the Lusitania in WW1, Pearl Harbor in WW2) to turn public opinion enough. Absent Dec 7 '41, the US would certainly have materially backed China, but open warfare ? Unlikely. Do Chinese really believe the US nuked Japan to punish it for Nanjing/Unit 731 etc ? Seriously ?

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 22:20

Suraj wrote:
wong wrote:Yes, but why did Pearl Harbor happen?? The Japanese just like to randomly attack the world's greatest industrial power of its day??

As much as the US had interests in China and more so elsewhere around the PacRim (e.g. Philippines), it wasn't prepared to initiate war with Japan over it at the time. Domestic political opinion of the kind now enabling such wars did not exist then, more so in the aftermath of the Great Depression. If anything, it had far more interests in Europe, yet stayed out until after Pearl Harbor. Do Chinese really believe the US nuked Japan to punish it for Nanjing/Unit 731 etc ? Seriously ?


US nuked Japan because of pearl harbor. Pearl harbor happened because of US oil embargo against Japan. US oil embargo was because Japan went punk a$$ in China. It's a series of cause and effect.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 22:24

gakakkad wrote:the chinese posters are largely silent on the bo xilai incident.. may be they are not authorised to speak.. may be they fear , the famous luxury van .


What's there to talk about?? He got canned. His antics pissed his boss off (those 9 guys that rule China). Mao sent his son to the Korean front. Bo sent his son to party at Harrow and Oxford. The guy was obviously a hypocrite.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 29 Mar 2012 22:29

wong wrote:US nuked Japan because of pearl harbor. Pearl harbor happened because of US oil embargo against Japan. US oil embargo was because Japan went punk a$$ in China. It's a series of cause and effect.

Several years too late - Roosevelt signed the embargo in July 1941 - China had already been under Japanese rule for several years, with atrocities like Nanjing already known. Pearl Harbor attack was not an isolated attack either - it was an early gambit of the Japanese Dutch East Indies campaign, focused on grabbing the Indonesian oilfields. Pearl Harbor itself was to cripple the Pacific Fleet to prevent them from retaliating, though they forgot the carriers and hit the battleships.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 29 Mar 2012 22:38

Suraj wrote:
wong wrote:US nuked Japan because of pearl harbor. Pearl harbor happened because of US oil embargo against Japan. US oil embargo was because Japan went punk a$$ in China. It's a series of cause and effect.

Several years too late - Roosevelt signed the embargo in July 1941 - China had already been under Japanese rule for several years, with atrocities like Nanjing already known. Pearl Harbor attack was not an isolated attack either - it was an early gambit of the Japanese Dutch East Indies campaign, focused on grabbing the Indonesian oilfields. Pearl Harbor itself was to cripple the Pacific Fleet to prevent them from retaliating, though they forgot the carriers and hit the battleships.


July 1941 is before Pearl Harbor. Before that "In 1940, Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to control supplies reaching China. The United States halted shipments of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline, which was perceived by Japan as an unfriendly act." Clearly a series of cause and effect and escalating to Japan getting Nuked and occupied. Again, no one believes Japan has the appetite or demographics to go "punk a$$" on anybody else today.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby sudarshan » 29 Mar 2012 23:36

wong wrote:
sudarshan wrote:
This is exactly what Indians are trying to tell you. China steals IP/proliferates nukes/occupies Tibet etc. saying "ends justify means." China will similarly go down as a direct consequence of these actions. Your actions are already causing the rest of the world to band together against you. Remains to be seen what the sequence of events is, which will be explained to future generations as a "quick history lesson."

Sudarshan


And who's embargoing China because Tibetans like to self-immolate?? Last I heard every Tibetan in India is under house arrest right now.


See, this is the difference between your short-term view and long-term views. You look at the present, and you say "nothing has happened to China until now, we are fine, the ends have justified the means." You don't see it as an evolving situation, which will continue to evolve over the next 10, 50, or 200 years. And I'm telling you that in the long term, there will always be consequences. Always. And yes, I do know that the Tibet situation started 50 years ago, in 1959.

I'm sure the Japanese were similarly laughing at their critics in the late 30's or early 40's, saying "we got away with it, the ends have justified the means." Not to mention the British in 19th century India or China.

Have a nice day, saar. As you yourself would say, no point discussing this further. Your short-term-gain paradigm is very different from my (or the Indian) view of things.

Sudarshan

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 30 Mar 2012 00:14

wong wrote:July 1941 is before Pearl Harbor. Before that "In 1940, Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to control supplies reaching China. The United States halted shipments of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline, which was perceived by Japan as an unfriendly act."

Oh, a sanction here and an embargo there, and a wink and a nod to KMT, a lend-lease program elsewhere... was all the US was inclined upon at the time. Keep in mind that 5 years after nuking Japan, the US was busy helping Japan rebuild and turn into Asia's postwar economic powerhouse through massive trading orders and supplies requests, while on the task of fighting a war with... China. By your logic we could tenuously argue that the US bombed Hiroshima/Nagasaki so it could later kill a few million Chinese conscripts. Cause and effect, and all that.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 01:19

Suraj wrote:
wong wrote:July 1941 is before Pearl Harbor. Before that "In 1940, Japan invaded French Indochina in an effort to control supplies reaching China. The United States halted shipments of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline, which was perceived by Japan as an unfriendly act."

Oh, a sanction here and an embargo there, and a wink and a nod to KMT, a lend-lease program elsewhere... was all the US was inclined upon at the time. Keep in mind that 5 years after nuking Japan, the US was busy helping Japan rebuild and turn into Asia's postwar economic powerhouse through massive trading orders and supplies requests, while on the task of fighting a war with... China. By your logic we could tenuously argue that the US bombed Hiroshima/Nagasaki so it could later kill a few million Chinese conscripts. Cause and effect, and all that.


No, no, no. That is your logic. It certainly isn't mine. The Korean War isn't part of WWII, at least not in any text book I've ever scene. WW2, US was fighting fascism. Korean War, US was fighting a proxy war against communism. Not the same ballpark. Not even the same sport.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 30 Mar 2012 01:42

To paraphrase Deng, what does it matter whether the war is against fascism or communism to the poor sucker on the wrong side of the barrel ? In any case the Japanese occupation of China was not WW2 either but youre fine with viewing cause and effect there.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby hnair » 30 Mar 2012 01:42

gakakkad wrote:the chinese posters are largely silent on the bo xilai incident.. may be they are not authorised to speak.. may be they fear , the famous luxury van .


Those vans are doing wonders in improving China's H&D, along with generous 401k buy back from, er, "newly approved widows" by big cuddly Govt.

Yuan was put to death just fifteen minutes after the sentence was pronounced :shock: , together with his brother, Yuan Baoqi, and cousin, Yuan Baosen. He was the wealthiest convict to be executed in PRC history.

Yuan was found guilty of the murder in January 2005 and was due to die by firing squad on October 14, 2005. After the date passed and the sentence was not carried out, it was rumoured that the day before the execution date his wife transferred ownership of shares worth 49.5 billion yuan to the government. The assets comprised equities including a 40 percent stake in an Indonesian oil company held by Yuan through a Hong Kong firm. Another conjecture of the reason was Yuan revealed misconducts of a high ranking Liaoning official :oops:

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Mar 2012 01:51

Wong,

What you still no emigrate.

After all if you don't like things your solution is to emigrate, No. After all that is the option the vast majority of Ching Chong Chinese have as well, right. Talk about unfeeling callousness. What a ding dong.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 01:55

Suraj wrote:To paraphrase Deng, what does it matter whether the war is against fascism or communism to the poor sucker on the wrong side of the barrel ? In any case the Japanese occupation of China was not WW2 either but youre fine with viewing cause and effect there.


I don't know what kind of world history they teach in your country, but the 2nd Sino-Japanese War is definitely considered part of WW2.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 01:58

Theo_Fidel wrote:Wong,

What you still no emigrate.

After all if you don't like things your solution is to emigrate, No. After all that is the option the vast majority of Ching Chong Chinese have as well, right. Talk about unfeeling callousness. What a ding dong.


You're Ching Chonging too much for anyone to understand.
Tone the gibberish down a notch if you want me to answer.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 30 Mar 2012 02:09

Second ? Never mind the fact that you pick just one of two conflicts, it's not even definitively considered the beginning of WW2 - the invasion of Poland by the Wehrmacht in Sept 1939 is the standard definition. China had been roiled in internal civil war and intermittently fighting the Japanese much before that, but that was at best a local conflict no one else got involved with directly, beyond token gestures.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 02:27

Suraj wrote:Second ? Never mind the fact that you pick just one of two conflicts, it's not even definitively considered the beginning of WW2 - the invasion of Poland by the Wehrmacht in Sept 1939 is the standard definition. China had been roiled in internal civil war and intermittently fighting the Japanese much before that, but that was at best a local conflict no one else got involved with directly, beyond token gestures.


Local conflict?? Is that what your education system teaches you??

The start of WW2 is debatable, but the end of the Pacific Theater of WW2, V-J Day, is not.

The clearest indicator that the 2nd Sino-Japanese War (yes 2nd, the first was over Korea) is not a "local conflict" and part of WW2 is China's permanent security council seat with veto power in the United Nations. Either the ROC or the PROC has always held it. This has always been considered a WW2 victor's club (American terminology, not mine). Seriously, what kind of history do they teach in your country??

Theo_Fidel

Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Mar 2012 02:49

Lets point out the crazy twisted mind at work here. The Gleat Lepublic was unable to teach the Nipponese a lesson and hence the USA attack at Hiroshima is now a 'revenge for Nanjing'. Truly a complete re-writing of history. And he said it with ‘book learning’ conviction so this really is the history lesson in Pandaland. So in the Panda wonderland telling, the great Chinese God in the sky told to USA, Thou must drop Fat Boy and Little Man on Japan to revenge me of Nanjing and USA went forth and did so as an arm of the Gleat Lepublic.

What a crock.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 03:01

Theo_Fidel wrote:Lets point out the crazy twisted mind at work here. The Gleat Lepublic was unable to teach the Nipponese a lesson and hence the USA attack at Hiroshima is now a 'revenge for Nanjing'. Truly a complete re-writing of history. And he said it with ‘book learning’ conviction so this really is the history lesson in Pandaland. So in the Panda wonderland telling, the great Chinese God in the sky told to USA, Thou must drop Fat Boy and Little Man on Japan to revenge me of Nanjing and USA went forth and did so as an arm of the Gleat Lepublic.

What a crock.


Your ability to debate is really questionable. Inserting words in my mouth is just intellectually dishonest. Saying China didn't fight in WW2, as someone here claims, is just factually wrong. I never said Hiroshima was to avenge Nanking. I said Japanese atrocities lead to American sanctions which then lead to Pearl Harbor. All in the same conflict. No Korean War, No Vietnam War, No 1962 or any other lame straw man you can drag in.

As for emigration. According to the World Bank, more Indians took the advice to leave than anyone other than Mexicans...

Page 25
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTL ... -Ebook.pdf

Theo_Fidel

Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Mar 2012 03:18

wong wrote: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response,....


Incredible. Revision after revision after revision on the same page no less. Panda wonderland. So now Nanjing was not part of atrocities so you just let Japan off for one of the crimes of the century. I hope your overlords know. Hundred lashes and 'Sent down' for re-education you shall...

Meanwhile, I thought you were pro-emigrate? What happened. Changed opinion so quick?
Last edited by Theo_Fidel on 30 Mar 2012 03:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 03:21

Theo_Fidel wrote:
wong wrote: Japan goes punk a$$ on China, US embargoes Japan because of China atrocities, Japan Pearl Harbors US as a response,....


Incredible. Revision after revision after revision on the same page no less. Panda wonderland.



What Revision?? Are you okay?

Sure sounds like what I just wrote:

"I said Japanese atrocities lead to American sanctions which then lead to Pearl Harbor. All in the same conflict. No Korean War, No Vietnam War, No 1962 or any other lame straw man you can drag in."

I am neutral on immigration. I said if you don't like china or south korea, then leave. Obviously a lot of Indians and Mexicans don't like India or Mexico right now. Notice how the South Korean numbers are now way down. I guess more South Koreans are discovering it's better to be a manager at Samsung than a dry cleaner in New Jersey.
Last edited by wong on 30 Mar 2012 03:26, edited 1 time in total.

Theo_Fidel

Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Mar 2012 03:24

Oh to be that blind..... and clueless...

History just rolled over and died in shame.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 03:27

Theo_Fidel wrote:Oh to be that blind..... and clueless...

History just rolled over and died in shame.


And your proof is what??

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Suraj » 30 Mar 2012 10:06

wong wrote:
Suraj wrote:China had been roiled in internal civil war and intermittently fighting the Japanese much before that, but that was at best a local conflict no one else got involved with directly, beyond token gestures.

Local conflict?? Is that what your education system teaches you??

The Sino-Japanese war was a local conflict until Dec 7 '41 conspired to turn Japan into someone else's wartime enemy, not because the atrocities in mainland China, as regrettable as they were, made China an ally. While the US and UK fought a ground war in Europe, Africa, Middle East and even SE Asia, it didn't fight one in China - it just threw Chiang a few bones to keep the Japanese busy with. The one major country in Asia that did stop the Japanese in their tracks in all out war was, of course, India.

Had the Japanese responded by just being a nuisance to US PacRim interests the way US embargoes were to them, the US domestic political opinion would not have gained sufficient force to fight a war. Ditto for them attacking British interests directly.

Separating one from the other because of some politicial fluff about cause is just laughable. V-J day was merely a milestone, it didn't dissipate the underlying stressors that led to the initiation of the Cold War, which directly led to the Korean War, which in turn saw the US assisting Japan's rapid economic ascent as they supplied the coalition forces fighting China.

Well done piling up the trolling credits, by the way. Seek and you shall find :)

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Raja Bose » 30 Mar 2012 10:23

wong wrote:The clearest indicator that the 2nd Sino-Japanese War (yes 2nd, the first was over Korea) is not a "local conflict" and part of WW2 is China's permanent security council seat with veto power in the United Nations.


:rotfl: :rotfl: I hope you do know that if it wasn't for the stupidity of Nehru, even that permanent seat in UNSC would not have been given to China.

I like the tag teaming that the trolls do....1st ashi, then his pal, now wong....I wonder what is the period of this group?

gakakkad
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby gakakkad » 30 Mar 2012 10:25

So hiroshima was bombed due to Japan committing atrocities on Chinese ?

So the lahori laaagic here is that the Manhattan project (which had multiple European Jews who fled to amreeka) was started because the japanese attacked china .. and szilard and einstein sahib wrote a letter to potus , o bliss , bliss make the atim bum,.. and otto frisch calculated the critical mass of u-235 to avenge the chinese..

wow...

even zaid hamid has got a clearer thought than this..

Theo_Fidel

Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Theo_Fidel » 30 Mar 2012 11:31

FWIW I suspect this crap is being taught in Chinese schools as reality. We are merely getting a glimpse of what passes for reality in Panda Wonderland. Fire away Mr Wong, Fire away.

amit
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby amit » 30 Mar 2012 14:30

Theo_Fidel wrote:FWIW I suspect this crap is being taught in Chinese schools as reality. We are merely getting a glimpse of what passes for reality in Panda Wonderland. Fire away Mr Wong, Fire away.


+100. It is indeed being taught and is very similar to the manufactured history that's taught in Pakistan. No wonder they are traller than mountains, dleeper than oceans friends.

Actually we all forgot to ask Wong one central question. That is both Mainland and Taiwan have a shared history as far as depredations against the country goes. Yet why is it that from a very early period Taiwan showed more innovation and got rich faster than the Mainland?

Care to tell us what your manufactured history says about that Wong?

wong
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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby wong » 30 Mar 2012 17:14

Suraj wrote:Had the Japanese responded by just being a nuisance to US PacRim interests the way US embargoes were to them


Well, the Japanese response to the embargoes was Pearl Harbor (what I've been saying for like the 5th time) and the rest, as they say, is history.

You are the product of the Indian education system. I'm the product of the American education system (K-Grad). Considering the US was the most important participant in WW2, I'll take the US version of history over some Indian text book, thank you very much.

US text books teach us about Wellesley-educated Madame Chiang, Doolittle's Raid, Flying Tigers and General Stilwell, etc. This is American history textbooks taught to all American school children. They also mention the massive Indian defections to the Japanese side after the fall of Hong Kong and Singapore (I guess your textbooks skipped over that part) and Indian nationalists trying to join Hitler (Subhas Chandra Bose). Do Indian textbooks skip over the Hitler parts?? I'm seriously curious.

So you can minimalize the Chinese contribution to WW2 all you want. The proof is in the pudding, China's UNSC seat. And it's Indian urban legend that India was ever asked to join the UNSC. Think about it logically. The Indian defections plus that Hitler-thing, the British, for one, weren't going for any of it. Prove me wrong...

The UNSC is a WW2 victor's club that Japan in the 1990s couldn't buy their way in nor can India plead/beg its way in today.

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Re: PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

Postby Rahul M » 30 Mar 2012 17:28

:rotfl: my god the pretentiousness of the misinformed !


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