Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

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Kartik
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 08 Feb 2012 23:50

Badar wrote:Yes I am. With aircraft service lives approaching 50 years keeping healthy payload margins is sound flexible design. And yes munitions are growing smaller as well as larger and heavier. See the MKI for an example - it could carry from SDB types to Brahmos without any structural changes needed.


I'm getting the feeling that I'm repeating things and you're not reading - the design is done for the ASR and whatever payload it requires. if the ASR requires a certain payload to be carried on different hardpoints, the designers will deliver structure that can sustain the load*1.5 times that for 9Gs or whatever your max G load is supposed to be. If you left margin, then you'd be considered an amateur, since adding to the empty weight of an aircraft is a big no no. Adding that to cater to future growth is not done at all. Develop a future block, and add a more powerful engine so that the T/W ratio doesn't get affected badly, but don't hobble an airplane with extra strength and weight when it is over and above the ASR's requirements. Doing anything else would be amateur in fact. :roll:

You cannot wake up 10 years later and suddenly up your payload requirements and expect that no design changes are required. If it was anyone's fault, it was the IAF who thought that a single R-60 would suffice for the outermost pylon. Even back in the late 1980s, they had better CCMs in service that weighed a lot more.

The world over, if an aircraft's hardpoint has to carry higher weight than it was stressed for, it has needed redesign. Even the F-16 has gone through several strengthening exercises for each Block which have added weight to its original lightweight structure. Only saving grace has been a higher thrust engine then being added on.

And no, the Su-30MKI cannot carry the Brahmos without strengthening.


If you don't keep some margins you end up with a farce - for example necessitating a new wing being designed because of new short-range is AAM is heavier than the previous. We just got lucky the requirement switch to a heavier AAM came during the prolonged development. Otherwise we might have had a fleet of 250 aircraft that could only carry obsolete missiles on outboard pylons or none at all.


That is what ASRs are for- to specify what the weight of the weapons you intend to carry are. No one says ok, lets add another 100 kg weight to the ASR specification just so that say 10 years down the line they may get a heavier missile to hang off that hardpoint. That way you'd end up being significantly higher weight than the original design goal would've been.

Those added loads are usually fairly easy to calculate and compensate - if I may say so as a layman - lead to fairly trivial weight increases in the larger scheme of things. The wing flex tolerances and what the increased outboard weight does to them are the interesting and harder part. The wings wont break off or anything drastic like that, but service life takes a drastic hit.


No they're not easy to calculate and compensate. It may lead to a lot of revalidation and rework.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Rahul M » 08 Feb 2012 23:59

Badar sahab, sometimes one has to defer to the domain expert. kartik knows more about aircraft structures than most of us combined.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 09 Feb 2012 07:44

aharam wrote: I strongly disagree that that an LCA that can't handle all A2A threats is useless. The whole point of having multiple classes of aircraft is to develop a pyramid of capabilities. In an airspace that has a lot of flanker class aircraft, sending in an LCA would be tantamount to suicide. And this statement is true for any light class aircraft such as a Gripen or an F-16. A heavy has a lot more in terms of hard points and a considerable advantage in fuel. These are not advantages you can easily overcome with a light class fighter. Does that mean that a light class aircraft is useless. No - they form the heavy base of the pyramid. Let your dedicated A2A aircraft deal with their heavies - this means pit the MKI and the Rafale against the enemy flanker force. And then use the numbers that you have in your lights to go after their light aircraft. There you have a distinct advantage. The LCA is many generations ahead of the enemy MiG-21 clones. This model of threat negation is not just true for the air force. It comes from cavalry 3000 years ago. Just because heavy cavalry can handle almost any threat does not mean you build an entire army of just heavy cavalry.


I don't think that the LCA being sent against Flanker class aircraft would be tantamount to suicide. If properly supported, say as a part of a package of Rafale and MKI fighters or with adequate AWACS and tanker support, the LCA can definitely be a big threat. It has a small RCS on account of its small size and high composite content, a respectable MMR/Elta 2032 hybrid radar and with long range BVR missiles such as an Astra/R-77, it will be able to take down any fighter except perhaps a stealth optimized fighter. When the ODL becomes operational, the same tactic that Rafales can use, (viz. a silent Rafale launching a MICA against a target illuminated by another farther behind), can be used by the Tejas as well. or with target data provided by the AWACS which will definitely be able to see the Flanker from much farther away than the Tejas, definitely far outside the engagement envelope of the Flanker.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby agupta » 09 Feb 2012 08:04

Kartik wrote:
I'm getting the feeling that I'm repeating things and you're not reading - the design is done for the ASR and whatever payload it requires. if the ASR requires a certain payload to be carried on different hardpoints, the designers will deliver structure that can sustain the load*1.5 times that for 9Gs or whatever your max G load is supposed to be. If you left margin, then you'd be considered an amateur, since adding to the empty weight of an aircraft is a big no no. Adding that to cater to future growth is not done at all. Develop a future block, and add a more powerful engine so that the T/W ratio doesn't get affected badly, but don't hobble an airplane with extra strength and weight when it is over and above the ASR's requirements. Doing anything else would be amateur in fact. :roll:




Kartik

Aren't you assuming that ASRs do not include growth and weight margins ? You may want to double check that assumption....

regards

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Badar » 09 Feb 2012 11:55

Kartik, point taken about the design teams constraint to give the best possible product satisfying the ASR and no more.

Frankly the burden of guilt shifting from ADA to IAF due to inadequate payload margin in the ASR doesn't make me feel any better. This weight growth should have reasonably factored into the aircraft.

Had the LCA been in production with the R-60 requirement and then a request came for R-73 support what work would have been entailed for the already produced aircraft?

Rahul M, thank you for helping me spare the blushes.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Feb 2012 20:28


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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kailash » 10 Feb 2012 11:28

DRDO, IAF carry out secret calibration exercise

The exercise was conducted to test the target location and precision firing capability of pilots of Mirage 2000 fighter jets of the IAF. The exercise was tracked through radars. “The exercise which is also known as a target simulation test was aimed at gauging the killing precision and ascertaining the timing of attack by the fighter pilots,” he said.


are they testing an upgrade? is this routine?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 10 Feb 2012 11:31

most likely they were testing the ability of RDY radar to pickup and target low flying subsonic cruise missiles - the new threat from babur and its chinese fathers that has emerged as a significant threat recently.

the M2K upg will replace with the much more modern RDY3 radar though, so it may be to tide over things till upg is complete or a RDY3 is fitted on a current mirage and they were validating its capabilities and checking things in a list.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby krishnan » 10 Feb 2012 11:33

What was so secret about it ???

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby negi » 10 Feb 2012 12:08

^ Well I can only speculate but afaik IAF does not expose all the modes of it's modern fighter AC radars (for eg. BARS on board the MKI was never operated in all it's modes during the red flag) so if M2Ks were indeed equipped with the upgraded RDYs then it makes sense to keep calibration exercises a secret.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby tsarkar » 10 Feb 2012 21:22

A friend emailed this extremely accurate drawing of a MiG21 bison depicting teh Tarang installation and the wing root equipment. The only inaccuracy I find is that an IRST has been added. http://vnfawing.com/fafutures/images/Mig21-Cutaway.jpg

Singha wrote:most likely they were testing the ability of RDY radar to pickup and target low flying subsonic cruise missiles - the new threat from babur and its chinese fathers that has emerged as a significant threat recently.

the M2K upg will replace with the much more modern RDY3 radar though, so it may be to tide over things till upg is complete or a RDY3 is fitted on a current mirage and they were validating its capabilities and checking things in a list.
If its secret, then we dont know :wink: what's the use speculating

Ref above, I doubt any Mirage has been upgraded with RDY-2 so early. They still carry RDM, that is very capable.

We're getting RDY-2 that is better than RDY-3 that is a monkey version for JF-17 and biradari.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby George J » 10 Feb 2012 22:55

negi wrote:^ Well I can only speculate but afaik IAF does not expose all the modes of it's modern fighter AC radars (for eg. BARS on board the MKI was never operated in all it's modes during the red flag) so if M2Ks were indeed equipped with the upgraded RDYs then it makes sense to keep calibration exercises a secret.


All radars have training modes. IAF knows that whatever modes it chooses to radiate in will be picked up and promptly added to the threat libraries when they are exercising with friendly countries. If you remember, apparently the ONLY purpose of Rafale in Red Flag was to soak up ELINT apparently it did not do much else.


A friend emailed this extremely accurate drawing of a MiG21 bison depicting teh Tarang installation and the wing root equipment. The only inaccuracy I find is that an IRST has been added. http://vnfawing.com/fafutures/images/Mig21-Cutaway.jpg


This cutaway is "terribly inaccurate" at best. I donno if you know there is a website called http://www.bharat-rakshak.com and if anyone is seriously interested in creating an "extremely accurate drawing" of the Bison you will find very detailed pictures of the Bison taken by some dude call Jagan Pillarisetti. Don't confuse the website with the forum. :)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shiv » 10 Feb 2012 23:43

That MiG 21 cutaway shows a RATO bottle! :eek:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby tsarkar » 11 Feb 2012 02:20

Now, I may be a from a different era, but when I saw the Bison, I was told the Phased Array Radar, bubble canopy, blocks at the wing root and most importantly, the Tarang sensor extending from the vertical tailfin leading edge were the identifiers of the improvements carried out. The last one - Tarang sensor on vertial tailfin - is a uniquely Indian feature not found on other upgraded MiG21s http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Image ... 1.jpg.html

I believe the OLS like structure is an inaccuracy, but do point out what else you find "terribly inaccurate".

Kopyo supports Kh35 and the ESM suite supports Kh31, its a different matter IAF doesnt operate the former and deploy the latter from the MiG21Bison even if the aircraft is suitable for carriage.

As for RATO bottles, I have seen birds from that era use them. Here are pictures of MiG21 with RATO bottles similar to the one shown in the cutaway http://www.harpoondatabases.com/encyclo ... y2659.aspx

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 11 Feb 2012 04:47

Badar wrote:Kartik, point taken about the design teams constraint to give the best possible product satisfying the ASR and no more.

Frankly the burden of guilt shifting from ADA to IAF due to inadequate payload margin in the ASR doesn't make me feel any better. This weight growth should have reasonably factored into the aircraft.

Had the LCA been in production with the R-60 requirement and then a request came for R-73 support what work would have been entailed for the already produced aircraft?

Rahul M, thank you for helping me spare the blushes.


Badar saab, it's tough enough to adhere to ASR requirements (which do include what stores you intend to carry or a weight figure) and still keep the airframe within design goal limits ; and in the Tejas' case, it didn't stay within that design goal limit anyway, since that goal was far too optimistic in the first place. See, the IAF won't laud you for having exceeded their ASR payload requirements, but they will ding you for going over weight goals. That would the foremost thought while coming up with the limit loads for the flight envelope. Fatigue isn't a driving design consideration for fighter aircraft, since they tend to have shorter lives anyway, and the belief is that when coming up with these limit load cases (cases that cover the corners of the flight envelope) you cover fatigue too. Nevertheless, any change in stores throughout the service lifetime of the aircraft

Had it already been in production, it would've been a tougher call. As Marimuthu said, for the initial set of wings (built in Italy by Alenia for the first few sets?) they'd figure out some band-aid solution, since those are cured wing panels and you can't cure them again with additional plies in the localised region that you want to stiffen. But for later wings, the design of the mould used for the wing panels would've been changed, since the thickness of the OML skins would've been more by at least a few plies. That would've been the effect on the manufacturing side.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby abhik » 11 Feb 2012 14:21

Posted in the JSF thread earlier:-
Aviation Week: U.S. Air Force Reveals Budget Cut Details
Overall, the Air Force will be reduced by 286 aircraft. Of these, 123 will be fighters, .... Of these, 102 will be A-10Cs and 21 will be older model F-16s — a response to the smaller size of the ground forces they will support. There will be 246 A-10s remaining.

Air mobility will take a 133-aircraft divestment.... Divestments will include 27 C-5As, 65 older C-130s and all 38 existing and planned C-27s.

Could we be interested?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Austin » 11 Feb 2012 14:53

France Jets Past Germany
India picks the Rafale fighter, reinforces tag of being world's largest arms importer
Sandeep Unnithan

India's impending acquisition of the Rafale aircraft is likely to significantly alter the balance of air power in the subcontinent. On January 31, the Ministry of Defence (MOD) announced that the French-built aircraft had emerged as the lowest bidder in its $10.2 billion (Rs 50,000 crore) contest to buy 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA).

When all 126 mmrcas are fielded by 2021, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be able to match the growing presence of Chinese and Pakistani air forces which will deploy over 240 similar aircraft. The first of the mmrcas, thus called because they can shoot down aircraft and bomb ground targets, will be inducted four years from now and help the iaf arrest a dip in fighter squadrons caused by the phasing out of the MiG-21. The iaf has less than 30 squadrons against a sanctioned 39.5 squadrons.

It will, however, take another year for the iaf to sign the contract to acquire the aircraft. This is the world's largest open tender military contract. Sources say the contract size is set to nearly double to $ 18 billion (the 2011 defence budget was $ 36.3 billion) when it is adjusted for inflation.

The French-built aircraft knocked out its closest contender, the Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a four-nation consortium that includes Germany and Great Britain. The price of the Rafale has not been revealed but is believed to be nearly $100 million (Rs 500 crore) per aircraft. The deal also reinforces the somewhat dubious tag of India being one of the world's largest importers of defence hardware. Last year, it eclipsed China to claim that title.

In the next fortnight, the mod is to set up a Price Negotiation Committee (PNC), including representatives of the iaf and financial advisers. The pnc has a 90-day deadline to hold discussions with representatives of Dassault Aviation, makers of Rafale. Meanwhile, the Defence Offsets Facilitation Agency will begin discussions with Dassault on the mandatory 50 per cent 'defence offsets'-the firm will have to indicate partners in Indian industry from whom it will source nearly half the contract value.

The MMRCA decision is the wheel coming full circle. Soon after the 1999 Kargil War, the iaf was set to buy 126 Mirage 2000-5 jets. In 2005, the upa government changed this to an open tender and invited manufacturers from the US, Europe, Sweden and Russia to participate. Dassault withdrew the Mirage 2000 from the contest and fielded the newer, pricier Rafale instead. Two years ago, a senior IAFofficial indicated they were looking for a 'contemporary Western fighter'. Sure enough, in April 2011, the mod ejected Russia, Sweden and the US from the contest, narrowing it down to the Rafale and Eurofighter.

The first squadron of 18 Rafales will be delivered three years from the date of signing the contract. The 108 remaining aircraft will be assembled in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. The iaf has indicated it will exercise the option to buy 74 more mmrcas. This means it could end up with over 472 fourth-generation aircraft, including 272 Sukhois.

"The IAF is rapidly becoming top-heavy by inducting expensive twin-engined aircraft like the Sukhois and MMRCAs whereas it needs workhorses like the Light Combat Aircraft (ICA)," says aviation analyst Pushpinder Singh Chopra. Nearly three decades after it was conceived, the lca Tejas, meant to replace the MiG-21s, is still far from combat-worthy. Clearly the iaf needs to get it off the ground for a healthy mix.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Bala Vignesh » 11 Feb 2012 21:14

The C 27J sure are tempting. We could use them to boost the medium lift fleet of AN 32's. Or to support the Hercules fleet too.
JMO...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Badar » 11 Feb 2012 22:23

Kartik, thanks for your reply.

If you will indulge me with another question that struck me as I was reading your reply. What is the state of the art wrt batle damage of airframes? In the good old days you called up your squadron carpenter, tailor and perhaps the tinsmith and your camel would be good as new in a couple of hours. With improved and sophisticated materials being employed in the construction of modern aircraft the ability to do field repairs to airframe must be getting tougher and tougher.

In a 2 week war, is battle damage to an aircraft (consider airframe only) equivalent to a writeoff for the duration of the hostilities. Or the base repair wing folks with their specialist machine tools and 3D printers and whatnot can still be in play?

Bala Vignesh wrote:The C 27J sure are tempting. We could use them to boost the medium lift fleet of AN 32's. Or to support the Hercules fleet too.

Aren't the Spartans like brand new? Also didn't we just spend a packet upgrading the An-32?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Feb 2012 22:27

[quote="Austin"]France Jets Past Germany
India picks the Rafale fighter, reinforces tag of being world's largest arms importer
Sandeep Unnithan


Where do we get such guys, a single Saudi deal with US for F-15's cost $30 billion plus GBP 10 Billion (USD 15Billion) for Eurofighters- these are just 2 deals- they dwarf Indian imports, Chinese imports are not disclosed, IRAQ is buying USD 10 Billion worth of weapons a year.



PAF F-16 upgrade and 18 c/D aircraft costs $5.6 billion with option 18 more aircraft at $1.5 billion and agreement with CATIC for 150 JF-17's is USD 10 Billion. Plus undisclosed payments to China for Missile Purchase and Maintenance.



:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Last edited by Aditya_V on 11 Feb 2012 22:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Snehashis » 11 Feb 2012 22:28

Bala Vignesh wrote:The C 27J sure are tempting. We could use them to boost the medium lift fleet of AN 32's. Or to support the Hercules fleet too.
JMO...



Only 4 have been delivered and delivery of others has been cancelled. We have to finance the remaining 34.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Austin » 11 Feb 2012 22:54

Aditya_V wrote: Where do we get such guys, a single Saudi deal with US for F-15's cost $30 billion plus GBP 10 Billion (USD 15Billion) for Eurofighters- these are just 2 deals- they dwarf Indian imports, Chinese imports are not disclosed, IRAQ is buying USD 10 Billion worth of weapons a year.



PAF F-16 upgrade and 18 c/D aircraft costs $5.6 billion with option 18 more aircraft at $1.5 billion and agreement with CATIC for 150 JF-17's is USD 10 Billion. Plus undisclosed payments to China for Missile Purchase and Maintenance.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


Hope you have read this

http://www.sipri.org/media/pressrelease ... stransfers

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Feb 2012 03:47

It is good to see that authors like Pushpinder Singh and the good colonel are talking about the top heaviness of IAF fleet structure - I've always thought there are too many heavies in there. This is as good a reason as any to have a lighter single engined fighter in numbers (read LCA mk1).

CM

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 12 Feb 2012 13:07

Badar wrote:Kartik, thanks for your reply.

If you will indulge me with another question that struck me as I was reading your reply. What is the state of the art wrt batle damage of airframes? In the good old days you called up your squadron carpenter, tailor and perhaps the tinsmith and your camel would be good as new in a couple of hours. With improved and sophisticated materials being employed in the construction of modern aircraft the ability to do field repairs to airframe must be getting tougher and tougher.

In a 2 week war, is battle damage to an aircraft (consider airframe only) equivalent to a writeoff for the duration of the hostilities. Or the base repair wing folks with their specialist machine tools and 3D printers and whatnot can still be in play?

Bala Vignesh wrote:The C 27J sure are tempting. We could use them to boost the medium lift fleet of AN 32's. Or to support the Hercules fleet too.

Aren't the Spartans like brand new? Also didn't we just spend a packet upgrading the An-32?


Well, composite repairs are possible to do quite fast and can be done in the field itself, but they require OEM support. At least at the company I work, if an airline has any issues with skin panels built from composites, it requires at least a day or 2 of turn-around time for the engineers to come up with the specific repairs required. I wouldn't expect a technician in the IAF to be able to adequately judge exactly how many plies to put, what cure time to use, what materials to use, etc. for different types of battle damage that a composite panel may sustain. One thing is for sure-with a large portion of the IAF's fleet due to become fighters with carbon composites, the skill level needed will be higher than back in the days when Al alloys were mainly used for skins. A lot more education will be needed for IAF's maintenance guys in this field. And, HAL will need to develop a very good repair manual for the Tejas. I guess that is one of the things that must be going on right now, if it hasn't already been done.

Not just battle damage, even with regular service, composite skins will mean that an attitude shift is required within the IAF..if someone even drops a big spanner on a wing or fuselage skin panel, they'll have to report it, since it may not cause visible damage but may lead to serious issues as time progresses.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Feb 2012 14:13

Austin wrote:
Aditya_V wrote: Where do we get such guys, a single Saudi deal with US for F-15's cost $30 billion plus GBP 10 Billion (USD 15Billion) for Eurofighters- these are just 2 deals- they dwarf Indian imports, Chinese imports are not disclosed, IRAQ is buying USD 10 Billion worth of weapons a year.



PAF F-16 upgrade and 18 c/D aircraft costs $5.6 billion with option 18 more aircraft at $1.5 billion and agreement with CATIC for 150 JF-17's is USD 10 Billion. Plus undisclosed payments to China for Missile Purchase and Maintenance.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


Hope you have read this

http://www.sipri.org/media/pressrelease ... stransfers


Yes I have read Sipri and found their reports unreliable and more psy-ops organisation. Saudi Arabian Purchases etc. fly well below the radar. Any defence reporter who verifies facts would know it is not reliable.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Badar » 12 Feb 2012 22:51

Karitk, thanks. One wonders if air forces under wartime conditions might not be as punctilious as airlines in commercial operations.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shukla » 13 Feb 2012 14:25

Rosoboronexport press-release suggests Ka-226 might be leading the Eurocopter in a tender to supply 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopters for the Indian air force and land force

Ka-226 battles through in India
Russia & India report - Victor Litovkin.

Rosoboronexport, the sole Russian intermediary for exports and imports of weapons and military equipment, has issued a press release confirming that the Russian Ka-226T light helicopter will soon defeat its European counterpart the AS550 C3 Fennec, manufactured by Eurocopter, in the tendering process to supply 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopters for the air force and land forces of the Republic of India. “All the test phases have been completed, and the examination of bidders’ proposals is at the concluding stage,” the company’s press office reports.

The marked advantage of the Russian proposal is its “cumulative” effect: the excellent Ka-226T rotary-wing aircraft is offered as a package with an offset programme that is attractive for the Indian side, this document says. First, under the offset programme Rosoboronexport, together with companies of the Russian Helicopters holding, is proposing to set up joint production of sub-systems and components for the Ka-226T, and subsequently to set up assembly of these machines in the Republic of India. Second, it proposes joint development of new modifications of the Ka-226T. And third, this programme will enable the two countries – which are strategic partners – to move towards full-scale industrial cooperation in the field of helicopter building. Russia’s huge experience in this sphere and the successful implementation of joint programmes in the field of aircraft building (production under licence in India of the MiG-21, MiG-27 and Su-30MKI aeroplanes) are a good basis for fulfilling the most ambitious objectives.

Incidentally,[b] the Ka-226T performed very well during the evaluation trials conducted earlier in India as part of the tendering process. These trials showed clearly that the Ka-226T embodies the best achievements of the Kamov school of design – modular construction, which makes the helicopter multifunctional, a simple piloting technique, a low level of vibration, a high degree of reliability and safety in flight, and easy maintenance.

The Kamov helicopter may also be helped to win in the Indian tendering process by the fact that the Ka-226T is also flying in the Russian Federal Security Service and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and has been put into service by the Ministry of Defence. A batch of these “choppers” was recently delivered to the Military Helicopter Pilots’ Retraining Centre in Torzhok. Moreover, there is lively interest in this machine outside Russia. Jordan wants not just to buy this machine but also to assemble it on its own territory. So Delhi has a chance to overtake Amman, and even to leave it trailing.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby chackojoseph » 13 Feb 2012 14:54


ramana
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby ramana » 14 Feb 2012 02:45

CJ, What is Airforce Medal?

I thought its called Vayu Sena medal.

You might want to edit your headline as calling things by right name is important for honors.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shukla » 14 Feb 2012 05:22

IAF chief to visit Singapore air show
Twocircles

Indian Air Force (IAF) chief N.A.K. Browne Monday left for a four-day trip to Singapore that is hosting a global airshow for aviation companies to woo the lucrative Asian market for private jets and defence hardware. The visit by Air Chief Marshal Browne is also aimed at enhancing defence cooperation with the Southeast Asian island nation, an IAF spokesperson said. The air chief "is likely to discuss a wide range of bilateral issues on the ongoing defence cooperation between the two countries towards expanding the already robust bilateral military to military ties", the spokesperson added.

During his visit to Singapore, Air Chief Marshal Browne will call on Minister of State for Defence Lawrence Wong. He will also meet his Singapore counterpart Major General Chee Meng and Chief of Defence Force Lieutenant General Neo Kian Hong. Browne is leading a composite defence delegation to the island nation and is accompanied by senior officers from the armed forces and ministry of defence. The Indian delegation is likely to visit the biennial air show to have a look at the latest in defence technology. Some 900 exhibitors, including Boeing, Airbus and Bombardier, from 50 countries are taking part in the show that begins Tuesday. India and Singapore share good defence ties and participate in joint exercises, exhibitions, conferences and frequently conduct exchange programmes in staff courses and training activities.


Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Feb 2012 11:23



Will this be the First AESA radar in Indian service? is Phalcon and Aerostat radars AESA? Is the Green Pine based Swordfish Radar AESA?

Singha
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2012 11:38

I dont think its a aesa radar...has a spherical looking dish antenna. yes phalcon, aerostat, green pine, desi lrde aew are all some form of aesa in different bands like S and L. the fighter X band aesa's are more challenging due to space, cooling, power constraints.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kailash » 14 Feb 2012 11:41

Guess we can also add lot of ground based rajendra, CAR and its variants, LRTR. Not to mention the X band chopper radars -sv2000 and xv2004. All are AESA.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 14 Feb 2012 11:42

sv2000 is not aesa imo . it had a parabolic dish antenna. MF-Star on P15A and P17A is again aesa.

Aditya_V
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Feb 2012 11:55

Singha My Bad, based on use of google chacha looks like Apy 10 is not AESA.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nachiket » 15 Feb 2012 00:59

Rajendra is also a PESA, not an AESA radar. Not sure about the Rohini and Revathi systems.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shukla » 15 Feb 2012 06:13

Sonic boom by jet creates panic
Deccan Chronicle

The sonic boom created by a Sukhoi fighter jet of the Indian Air Force (IAF) as it flew overhear caused panic in parts of Cuddalore district on Tuesday. The impact of the deafening sound at 11.48 pm caused vibrations in the region, with doors and window panes shaking violently in many houses in Panruti, Neyveli, Kadampuliyur, Kullanchavadi and Parangipettai. Panicked residents ran out of their houses following rumours that an earthquake had hit the region. Soon rumours of a mysterious blast and a helicopter crash also started pouring in, adding to the confusion. With the sound remaining a mystery, police stations and the Cuddalore collectorate were flooded with calls from residents of the area on whether any earthquake had hit the region.

Officials of the revenue department and the police fanned out to Neyveli and Parangipettai to ascertain the source of the sound. Cuddalore collector Rajendra Ratnoo clarified that the sonic boom was created by a Sukhoi fighter jet of the IAF from Bangalore that was on a training exercise over the district. The supersonic jet which can fly above speeds of 1,500 km per hour was flying at a low altitude, which in turn created the sonic boom. The sortie was planned by the IAF and there was no need to panic, he said.


Do we know what dB level the Su-mki produces in relation to some other equivalents?

Singha
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 15 Feb 2012 08:17

to me the Tejas and Jaguars create more noise than su30s.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby suryag » 15 Feb 2012 10:38

To me what is curious is what was the rambha doing in cuddalore ?


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