Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
archan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 6822
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 21:30
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby archan » 03 Jul 2012 07:07

^ That should settle the debate no?
vic, you have made it clear that what you are saying is based on information gained by personal interaction. You are entitled to your views and unless you have some other published info in support of your point please give it a rest. Same for others. Let's move on. Any sarcastic comments on any user might result in mod action against the offender.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5348
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 03 Jul 2012 07:32

Mihir wrote:By weight? Is the dhruv some sort of dish like chicken tikka masala, where you buy ingredients and mix them to make your final product, for percentage by weight to be a consideration?

Taking the point to its logical conclusion, if HAL makes an effort to reduce the weight of the ALH by using more composites in the airframe or just optimising it structurally, will it become any less indigenous by weight?


Going by vic's logic, Boeing (and I mean BCA) is nearly as bad as HAL and hence deserves the same derision.. :)

engine sourced from GE or P&W or CFM, composites from Hexcel, avionics from a host of sources like Rockwell Collins, seats by customer selected non-Boeing entities, and sometimes even the entire fuselage built by another supplier (737 by Spirit Aerosystems)..

The list for just the 787 is here.

all they seem to do is do is design systems, structures, software and integrate them..just as pathetic as HAL, isn't it ? :wink:

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shiv » 03 Jul 2012 07:56

Kartik wrote:
Mihir wrote:By weight? Is the dhruv some sort of dish like chicken tikka masala, where you buy ingredients and mix them to make your final product, for percentage by weight to be a consideration?

Taking the point to its logical conclusion, if HAL makes an effort to reduce the weight of the ALH by using more composites in the airframe or just optimising it structurally, will it become any less indigenous by weight?


Going by vic's logic, Boeing (and I mean BCA) is nearly as bad as HAL and hence deserves the same derision.. :)

engine sourced from GE or P&W or CFM, composites from Hexcel, avionics from a host of sources like Rockwell Collins, seats by customer selected non-Boeing entities, and sometimes even the entire fuselage built by another supplier (737 by Spirit Aerosystems)..

The list for just the 787 is here.

all they seem to do is do is design systems, structures, software and integrate them..just as pathetic as HAL, isn't it ? :wink:


My OT response here
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6237&p=1305619#p1305619

ASPuar
BRFite
Posts: 1538
Joined: 07 Feb 2001 12:31
Location: Republic of India

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby ASPuar » 03 Jul 2012 12:16

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120702/j ... _KZVBdKqnk


AF protests ‘widen red role’ order

SUJAN DUTTA

New Delhi, July 1: The Indian Air Force has been asked to expand Operation Triveni — the air support for counter-Maoist operations — to eight states from five but it has told the government that its helicopters are running unacceptable risks because of poor support from the Union home ministry and the state governments.

The home ministry is in fact hoping that it will have greater co-operation from the defence ministry in the counter-Maoist operations with a new army chief, General Bikram Singh, taking over last month.

But the IAF, the only military outfit directly involved officially in the counter-Maoist operations, is now finding it difficult to sustain Operation Triveni in the absence of infrastructure.

The former army chief, General V.K. Singh, who retired on May 31, had resolutely opposed home ministry proposals to involve the army in counter-Maoist operations.

Earlier this month, V.K. Singh had told The Telegraph that in November 2011, the Union home ministry had come up with a “flat-headed proposal” to re-deploy some of the 63 battalions of the Rashtriya Rifles from Jammu and Kashmir to Maoist-hit districts in Chhattisgarh “to secure the camps of 75 battalions of the central police forces while the police would go out into the jungles to hunt for Naxals”.

V.K. Singh said he had turned down the proposal because it was unworkable and added that the home ministry was treating the army not as “an instrument of last resort as defence minister A.K. Antony has been saying” but as a constabulary.

Now the air force has told the government that its helicopters have been shot at about 10 times in the recent past. On four occasions, suspected Maoists have hit the helicopters with small arms but the sturdiness of the Mi-17s and the precautions taken by the aircrew — such as steep dives to land and steep take-offs — have been chiefly responsible for the no-casualty report on the air operation.

In 2008, an IAF crewman in a helicopter was killed in ground fire by Maoists near Gadchiroli, Maharashtra, as his chopper was taking-off.

In pointing out that the helicopters have taken flak four times, the IAF is also warning the government that the Maoists are getting better at targeting and that they have developed the firepower. The copters deployed in the counter-Maoist operations are armoured.

Operation Triveni, the codename given to the “air maintenance” of troops in Maoist-hit districts, began in 2010 with two Mi 17 helicopters. The number was first increased to four and now stands at six, and the operation has been expanded to cover Chhattisgarh, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Odisha, Bengal, Jharkhand, Bihar and Madhya Pradesh. Areas from Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Odisha have been added recently.

The home ministry has also asked the IAF for more helicopters because BSF copters were not flight-worthy enough in critical situations. The Bengal, Chhattisgarh and Jharkhand governments have also been chartering private helicopters for the counter-Maoist operations.

The home ministry’s insistence has increased largely because its plan to wet-lease 13 Mi-17 helicopters was practically nixed after the former army chief indicted businessman Ravi Rishi’s company in a deal for Tatra trucks. The Mi-17 multi-utility helicopters cost an estimated Rs 45 crore each.

Ravi Rishi also owns Global Vectra Helicorp, the largest private supplier of helicopters in the country, through which the home ministry was planning to lease the helicopters. The directorate-general of civil aviation was asked to suspend Global Vectra’s licence in the wake of the Tatra row.

In presentations to the government, the IAF has said it would continue with its task of moving central police forces and equipment and evacuating casualties but wants the state governments to set up hangars and secure helipads for its copters.

The IAF has said the tasking for its helicopters must be routed through an inspector-general of the CRPF based in Raipur.

“We get too many requests for helicopter support that are not routed through the tasking officer. We have been ordered to take our brief from him but the police just call at random and ask for helicopters without appreciating how we operate,” an IAF officer said.

The officer said that in south Chhattisgarh’s Jagdalpur, for example, from where the IAF helicopters have flown frequently in support of central forces, the hangars were not yet built. Even in Chintalnar, an area near Mukram where the Maoists killed 75 central policemen on April 6, 2010, the IAF is unsure if the helipad is sanitised.

The air force had also asked the state and central forces to “pre-position” fuel stocks. But this has not been done. The IAF has said that the local administration in the Maoist-hit areas should “pre-position” fuel.

Also, said the officer: “They want us to switch off the engines without sanitising helipads in risky areas. The standard operating procedure requires that the IAF helicopters descend on helipads in risky areas in a steep dive, keep the engines and rotors running, and tak
e off in two minutes.”

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10099
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby sum » 04 Jul 2012 09:07

Livefist:
In what is being seen as a crucial victory for the Indian Army after a long-standing spat with the Indian Air Force, the government today accorded clearance to the Army to operate its own attack helicopter units.

India currently has two attack helicopter units, both under the command and control of the Army, but flown and maintained by IAF pilots and personnel. Seems pretty clear that the government's approval today means (a) that the two Mi-25/35 flights under two helicopter units will soon be flown by Army Aviation pilots (the choppers are in IAF livery) and the IAF will raise new units to house the 22 new attack helicopters (prospectively, the Boeing AH-64D Apache Block III) and, later, the Light Combat Helicopter. (b) The Mi-25/35s will be transferred to IAF command and control, while the Army raises new units and floats fresh requirements (it already stands to receive the Dhruv-WSI), or (c) a status quo on command and control of the current units, until new platforms enter service.

rajanb
BRFite
Posts: 1945
Joined: 03 Feb 2011 16:56

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby rajanb » 04 Jul 2012 09:20

^^^^ Finally!

Each Corps should have its own attack and medvac helis. But should have a common pool for with the IAF for maintenance. This way our boys on the ground can call for support and also for evac immediate and without going through an inter services chain of command.

The command of the IA assets should be straight line to their corps with a dotted line to the IAF for maintenance.

akimalik
BRFite
Posts: 133
Joined: 14 Apr 2010 11:27

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby akimalik » 06 Jul 2012 09:23

Putting this news here as it may be a precursor of things to come...

Mahindra's may buy Beechcraft

Mahindra's seem to have a focus on their Aviation growth.
I wonder what other Indian conglomerates are planning...

nash
BRFite
Posts: 890
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nash » 06 Jul 2012 13:43

Any news on IJT .. i think i saw it flying around sarjapur bangalore, its a bottom view so not sure.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10099
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby sum » 06 Jul 2012 14:16

Was that the IJT?

I thought it was a Surya Kiran buzzing around whole day yesterday!

saje
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 08 Oct 2010 16:28
Location: Bangalore

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby saje » 06 Jul 2012 15:53

nash wrote:Any news on IJT .. i think i saw it flying around sarjapur bangalore, its a bottom view so not sure.


It was the AJT.. Hawk.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10099
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby sum » 06 Jul 2012 15:58

Isnt the AJT steel gray?

Am certain i saw Surya-Kiran type coloured aircraft buzzing... Or maybe even the AJT was there.

Lot of activity yesterday. A LCA was roaring along, the Surya-Kiran( or IJT or AJT or all??) was there, a IA Dhruv was flying around followed by a Mi-8 and some civilian type aircraft hovering near the HAL airport.

nash
BRFite
Posts: 890
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nash » 06 Jul 2012 19:36

saje wrote:
nash wrote:Any news on IJT .. i think i saw it flying around sarjapur bangalore, its a bottom view so not sure.


It was the AJT.. Hawk.


Its not AJT , they are in grey color and look bulky..... may be surya kiran , unable to see the nose otherwise would be sure.

pragnya
BRFite
Posts: 728
Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby pragnya » 12 Jul 2012 08:37


Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Vipul » 12 Jul 2012 21:54

Boeing P-18 for India successfully tested.

Boeing has successfully tested the first of the eight P-8I long-range maritime reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft being built for the Indian Navy.

The aircraft, a next-generation 737-800 derivative, began its official flight test programme on July 7, taking off from Boeing Field in Seattle and landing three hours and 49 minutes later after demonstrating flying qualities and handling characteristics, Boeing said in a statement.

"This is an important milestone for the programme and sets the stage for operational testing and weapons certification as we move closer to P-8I aircraft joining the Indian Navy," the statement quoted Rear Adm D M Sudan, assistant chief of Naval Staff (Air) of Indian Navy as saying.

The aircraft is being built for India as part of a contract awarded in January 2009 and the Boeing-led team is on track to deliver the first aircraft to the Indian Navy in 2013, it said.

During the coming months, Boeing test pilots will put the P-8I through its paces over a US Navy test range west of Neah Bay, Washington, and a joint US/Canadian test range in the Strait of Georgia, it said.

"Today's flight is another on-time milestone for the programme," said Leland Wight, Boeing P-8I programme manager.

"We'll start out testing the P-8I's mission system, which includes its sensors and communication systems. The team then will transition to 'stores' tests during which the P-8I will carry inert weapon shapes under its wings to demonstrate that the aircraft is capable of carrying all the weapons the Indian Navy will use during regular missions."

The stores the P-8I will carry will have the identical shape and size of real weapons, including the Harpoon anti-ship missile, depth bombs and torpedoes.

In order to efficiently design and build the P-8I and the P-8A, the Boeing-led team is using a first-in-industry, in-line production process that draws on the company's Next-Generation 737 production system. Assembly is complete on the second P-8I aircraft and it will make its first flight in the coming weeks.

The P-8I features open system architecture, advanced sensor and display technologies, and a worldwide base of suppliers, parts and support equipment.

The aircraft are built by a Boeing-led industry team that includes CFM International, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Spirit AeroSystems, BAE Systems and GE Aviation.

A Sharma
BRFite
Posts: 1155
Joined: 20 May 2003 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby A Sharma » 15 Jul 2012 03:29

Interview excerpts P. Soundara Rajan MD, Helicopter Complex, HAL from Force magazine July 2012

The integration of weapons and weapons sensors on the Dhruv Mk-4 variant is now in the last lap of certification. If things go ahead as planned then the certification will take place this month and the first delivery of the ‘Rudra’ as called by the Army will take place this year. We will then get user feedback and also look at high altitude trials for the Mk-4.

Integration of Very High Frequency Omni-Directional Range (VOR) systems and Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) is also complete and will receive certification along with the Mk-4.

vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1658
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vasu raya » 15 Jul 2012 05:01

The Rudra, if they make the inner pylons as wet pylons, they can attach a refueling probe thereby avoiding the problem that Rahul M once mentioned of the need re-organize the components if a conformal probe is added to maintain the centre of gravity

Even a Mi-17 will need minimal modification

member_22906
BRFite
Posts: 305
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_22906 » 15 Jul 2012 11:37

It'll be interesting to see the tactics that will be adopted for deploying Rudra. This would be the first serious attempt by IA to field weaponized choppers. I predict a lot of future acquisitions/approvals for Army Aviation will be contingent on how quickly these are integrated into the ORBAT

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 15 Jul 2012 12:26

we will also need helina as a brimstone type weapon on IAF planes to really maul chinese mobile assets in tibet. the seekers should work good in tibet given the general lac k of terrain cover along lines of advance. MMW seeker would be great.

kmc_chacko
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby kmc_chacko » 15 Jul 2012 13:04

with these type of purchasing one thing is clear IAF won't increase its force at by 2020 they will fly each and every fighter till they will crash. :cry:

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shiv » 15 Jul 2012 13:24

kmc_chacko wrote:with these type of purchasing one thing is clear IAF won't increase its force at by 2020 they will fly each and every fighter till they will crash. :cry:


Apart from the fact that I can't understand what you are trying to say, your statement itself sounds quite stupid to me. Please explain.

kmc_chacko
BRFite
Posts: 326
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby kmc_chacko » 15 Jul 2012 15:04

IAF wanted to buy 126 fighters in 2001 with additional 74 as optional when we had around 39.5 sq and now we are in 2012 force level downed to 34 sq and we are yet to decide which fighter to buy and even by that time China flied and build 200+ J-10s. This delay is unacceptable at any cost.

That why, I have a feeling IAF will only replace fighters which crashed and by 2020 all Mig-21 & 27 series will either get crashed or scraped and since 270 nos Su-30 under production it will make it up. Mirage, Mig-29 will be upgraded & Jaguar might be replaced by MRCA's with 126 and balance force level will be made up by PAKFA with 50 nos and Tejas I & II. Even with this we will have 35+ sq.

Actually, we should have atlest brought Full Mirage Rights and upgraded locally rather than this circus. Atleast we would have had 100+ Mirages extra by now and we could have upgraded it just like we done to Jaguar & Mig-27s. Further MoD could have spent the extra money developing LCA & MCA projects.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 15 Jul 2012 18:33

so it appears they are planning for around 150 Tejas Mk2.

New Delhi: India and the US are close to signing a deal worth over USD 600 million for supplying 99 jet engines that would be used in the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft 'Tejas' being developed by the DRDO.
Around two years ago, India had selected the American company General Electric over its rival European Eurojet 2000 for the LCA Mark II programme expected to be ready around 2014-15

Negotiations with the US firm over various issues involved in the deal, including price and transfer of technology, have been held and it is hoped that the deal for these engines to be fitted on the LCA Mark II would be signed soon, Defence sources said..

As per the contract, the order could be for 99 engines initially but India will have the option of order for another 100 engines in the future.

The engine on offer for the LCA Mark II is GE F-414 engine, which are morepowerful that the GE F-404 engines fitted in the first batch of LCAs that the Indian Air Force would receive in near future.

The need for changing the existing engines in the LCAs was felt after the IAF found out that the GE-404 engines were not providing enough power to the aircraft and more powerful engines were needed for the purpose.

member_19648
BRFite
Posts: 265
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_19648 » 16 Jul 2012 15:09

A Sharma wrote:Interview excerpts P. Soundara Rajan MD, Helicopter Complex, HAL from Force magazine July 2012


Are you referring to this article? this one has some good/important snippets!

http://www.forceindia.net/InterviewJuly1.aspx

‘Certification Will Take Place This Month and First Delivery of the ‘Rudra’ as Called by the Army will Take Place This Year’
Managing director, Helicopter Complex, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, P. Soundara Rajan


Managing director, Helicopter Complex, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, P. Soundara Rajan
What is the status of the Dhruv programme as of now?
We have completed two years of deliveries and are now commencing the third year. The Dhruv is flying with operational units at the highest airfields. We are currently meeting the requirements of the Army and Indian Air Force (IAF) with regards to production and delivery of the Dhruv Mk-3 which is the utility variant with specific weapon sensors asked for by individual customers.

The weapons and weapons sensor coupled together make up the Mk-4 variant. The integration of weapons and weapons sensors on the Dhruv Mk-4 variant is now in the last lap of certification. If things go ahead as planned then the certification will take place this month and the first delivery of the ‘Rudra’ as called by the Army will take place this year. We will then get user feedback and also look at high altitude trials for the Mk-4.

Weapons will be integrated in two phases. Right now we are integrating whatever has been selected, later we will look at additional weapons. Weapons integration takes between 18 to 20 months depending on the type of weapon selected and the quantum of integration work that needs to be performed. We have done one trial with the Defence Research Development Organisation’s (DRDO) HELINA Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGM) and conducted separation trials. We have given feedback to the DRDO and they are working on the same.
Ultimately Helina will be integrated on the Dhruv Mk-4. We have also given a proposal to the users to retrofit the glass cockpit onto the Dhruv Mk-1, and are awaiting a response. Integration of Very High Frequency Omni-Directional Range (VOR) systems and Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) is also complete and will receive certification along with the Mk-4. We will certainly look towards a Dhruv Mk-5 variant based on whatever indigenous systems are likely to be available in the future to replace some of the imported systems that we have presently. Dhruv has the potential to cross 500 units with both military and civil demand. We expect it to be in production till 2020.

What are the results of the investment into manufacturing techniques and processes for Dhruv?
We have invested a lot of money on the production line for Dhruv and interchange ability has dramatically improved while noise and vibration levels have been greatly reduced. The aesthetic aspects have improved greatly and in comparison with the Mk-2 one can see significant improvements in terms of aesthetics, noise and vibration, reparability, maintainability etc. The new tooling has given us a lot of advantages in terms of manufacturability and manufacturing rate.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 17 Jul 2012 08:15

I didnt realize the MQ8 firescout had been tested with weapons, but here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VliVsY4Hr8

in future we can think of modding the Rudra airframe into a similar concept, with a single engine and try it out...with a 16x pack of Helinas to fly with manned Rudras as additional street muscle.


member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_20453 » 17 Jul 2012 13:25

Yup, The Fire scout is ideal also on all destroyers, frigates, carriers of the Navy as well, it can be used for softening up defences for amphibious assaults and protecting the ships against small ships. I think an order of around 50 of these for the Navy and about 100 for the Army would be great. This should provide good recon as well attack possibilties. I think they need 4 versions of Nag.

The basic Nag-4 to 6 km range

Helina 7 to 12 km range for UAVs, Helos (Aura, Firescout etc)

Cobra for 40 to 60 km range for multiple uses including radar busting, anti shipping (small cruisers, missile boats etc), should be a low cost larger version of Nag, no need for extensive re-design, just make the missile bigger.

I think we also need a low cost, very low weight air laucnhed PGM, weight of around 50 kg, Laser/ gps guided for use from UAVs and Helos too.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 17 Jul 2012 13:30

for the Cobra - perhaps a modded Astra Mk1 with a larger warhead and slightly fatter diameter would be more suitable starting point.

to supplement the Sudarshan we need
- sudarshan on 2000lb bunker buster slim but hard LGB
- 50kg glonass guided PGM (not laser guided), with upto 50km range using folding diamond wing kit...this is to attack a cluster of targets like a airbase, army camp or SAM site from a safe distance using a high number of autonomous weapons - being unpowered , with no IIR seeker it will be quite cheap

we have enough shooters coming online now in form of Tejas, MKI, rafale, FGFA....its all about LO, targeting and weapons now. even fairly aeging usaf F16 are able to launch devastating strikes taking advantage of smart weapons, accurate targeting info and protective jamming/SEAD.

arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby arun » 17 Jul 2012 21:04

Picture of the Indian Navy’s second Boeing P8I, IN321:

IN 321 First Flight

Picture of both of the Indian Navy’s Boeing P8 I’s, IN 320 and IN321, together:

IN 320 and IN 321 Parked Nose to Nose

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5348
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 18 Jul 2012 05:33

Looks like its confirmed that the Hawk AJT will form the Surya Kiran display team instead of the HJT-36 which is nowhere to be seen.

BAe close to selling 1000th Hawk

"Hawk is in a buoyant position," says Michael Christie, BAE’s director of Hawk aircraft programmes. "We have 990 sold and are going for 1,000 and way beyond."

The company expects to receive a request for proposals within a few weeks to supply 20 AJTs to replace the Hindustan Aeronautics Kiran trainers flown by the Indian air force’s Surya Kiran aerobatic display team, he adds.

...


Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 18 Jul 2012 06:49

great news :evil:

if HJT36 can be muffed up, one can predict where AMCA is headed.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8228
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 18 Jul 2012 07:13

Why this annoyance? I don't think that there are any faults to find here. There are risks with a new development. If the risks taken don't pay off, exercise a contigency plan. This is most prudent decision making.

But seriously, HAL needs to surprise me once by delivering a plane within 2 years of original delivery plan. I don't know what I would do that day :-)

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 18 Jul 2012 07:38

if we could have seen 5 IJT protos using AL55 doing a intensive test pgm to attain IOC and FOC at the earliest there would not be any long faces. but the whole pgm seems to have fallen off the radar and is being trickle funded now. clearly on the path to failure, why do we need it when HAL already has a assembly line of Hawks setup?

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Surya » 18 Jul 2012 08:04

Kartik

It was never going to be used by SKAT anytime soon
Engines are too new, to be trusted for the extreme range of ops, SKAT guys use

Gurneesh
BRFite
Posts: 465
Joined: 14 Feb 2010 21:21
Location: Troposphere

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Gurneesh » 18 Jul 2012 08:08

Maybe everybody missed this :::

http://idrw.org/?p=12796

HAL says that the IJT was back on track after the April 2011 mishap. “The second prototype has undertaken few sorties after the modification. We are now preparing for completing the tasks of stall and spin tests, which are major requirements for certification of this class of aircraft,” HAL said in an official communication. “The first two limited series production (LSP) aircraft are also undergoing the installation of the modified control circuits and will join the prototype aircraft soon to enhance the developmental flight activity,” HAL added.

merlin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2153
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: NullPointerException

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby merlin » 18 Jul 2012 09:26

Gurneesh wrote:Maybe everybody missed this :::

http://idrw.org/?p=12796

HAL says that the IJT was back on track after the April 2011 mishap. “The second prototype has undertaken few sorties after the modification. We are now preparing for completing the tasks of stall and spin tests, which are major requirements for certification of this class of aircraft,” HAL said in an official communication. “The first two limited series production (LSP) aircraft are also undergoing the installation of the modified control circuits and will join the prototype aircraft soon to enhance the developmental flight activity,” HAL added.


Yeah wake me up when they deliver.

HAL only delivers when they are license producing. Dhruv is the only exception (and you should listen to the IAF on their post-sale support experience :evil: )

merlin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2153
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: NullPointerException

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby merlin » 18 Jul 2012 09:28

indranilroy wrote:Why this annoyance? I don't think that there are any faults to find here. There are risks with a new development. If the risks taken don't pay off, exercise a contigency plan. This is most prudent decision making.

But seriously, HAL needs to surprise me once by delivering a plane within 2 years of original delivery plan. I don't know what I would do that day :-)


Wasn't it HAL that was crowing about IJT from drawing board to testing in some short time? When its time to deliver where is the crow?

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 24189
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby SSridhar » 18 Jul 2012 10:52


Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8228
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 18 Jul 2012 10:57

^^^ In HAL's defense, which company doesn't?

I get the feeling that the HAL bosses provide the best case scenario to garner the required funding. My bone with this model is that, this has become the norm! I don't know how it feels to be an HAL-employee when even your ardent supporters don't expect you to deliver (on time).

member_19648
BRFite
Posts: 265
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_19648 » 18 Jul 2012 12:09

merlin wrote:HAL only delivers when they are license producing. Dhruv is the only exception (and you should listen to the IAF on their post-sale support experience :evil: )


Why should we listen to them?

The IAF does not even have hangar facilities for majority of the SU 30s. This came to light when exposure to foreign elements was believed to be a cause in the last major crash of an SU 30.

If basic infrastructure on the ground such as a hangar is unavailable in requisite numbers one can only imagine the state of more advance airworthiness procedures.

Some years ago the IAF damaged half a dozen frontline Mirage 2000s in Gwalior when a hangar complex housing them collapsed apparently due to sub-standard construction. No lessons have been learned.



Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests