Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby koti » 06 Sep 2012 09:00

I was wondering that if fighters can carry Buddy-Buddy refuelling pods, so can transport and AEW aircraft. Maybe trying to integrate them into some transport A/C can be beneficial. I don't think they should cost that much, however I can see scenarios when they can do some useful stuff when the IL78s are getting calls from all around the country.

Maybe a dornear with a buddy pod and extra fuel(makeshift internal tanks) can sneak in close to the borders and do a quick refuel to our planes. Here, the primary refuellers could be too valuable, too big or too busy to be employed and say MKI with buddy pods can be unavailable due to better priorities.

JMT

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vasu raya » 06 Sep 2012 12:26

Here is a system suitable for such purpose,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_Airborne_FireFighting_System

platform wise it can probably go into the cargo hold of a civil airliner as well

Good for,

Aerial refueling
Aerial Fire fighting
NBC de-fumigation aerially say after a Tactical Nuke attack in battlefield
Same for nuclear reactor sites and surroundings in the case of emergencies

-------------

put a smaller version of such system on choppers to dispense bhut Jalokia pepper spray

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby arijitkm » 10 Sep 2012 15:01

IAF’s transport aircraft logs a new record with drop zone at 13,700 feet above sea level

The Indian Air Force’s heavy lift transport aircraft IL-76 was used for the first time to paradrop in the high altitude Nyoma area near Leh creating a new record in military aviation.

The drop zone at Nyoma was located at 13,700 feet above sea level and paradrop at such an elevation is risky for both the troops and the flight crew.

It was the first ever static paradrop – in which the parachute is opened automatically after the jump – from the heavy lift transporter at this altitude.

A high altitude drop zone makes the task all the more difficult. For the air crew, it requires special skills to execute the insertion operations.
......

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby arijitkm » 10 Sep 2012 15:08

More teeth for Jaguar

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has lit the afterburners to make its Jaguars fighting fit for modern warfare and increase their service life.

The Jaguars, the only aircraft with the IAF capable of carrying nuclear weapons other than the Mirage-2000s, are being fitted with autopilots, next generation avionics and lethal armaments under an ambitious modernisation programme that will see the fighters flying well after 2030.

Nearly 120 Jaguars are being modernised. So far, the IAF has procured autopilots for 55 Jaguars and talks for 95 more, which includes spare autopilots, are underway, according to information shared by the government in Parliament.

The upgradation of the Ambala-based fighter jets, in service for more than four decades, is being carried out by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) at a cost of more than Rs 3,000 crore.

Autopilots would lessen pilot workload, freeing them from physically flying the jet during long flights though, in an ultimate test of IAF top guns, six Jaguars flew all the way to Alaska for a joint exercise with the US Air Force in 2004.

The government is also reviving a plan to re-engine the aircraft with a more powerful powerplant. The IAF feels the Jaguars, powered by Rolls Royce Adour-811 turbofan engines, are underpowered, and wants a more powerful engine for the fighters.

But its hunt for a new power-plant has not been easy. In 2010, its bid for more than 250 turbofans for the Jaguars could not take off as one of the contenders – Rolls Royce, which offered its upgraded Adour MK-821 engine – backed out leaving only Honeywell’s F124IN engine in the fray.

The Indian government prefers to avoid single-vendor bids in military acquisitions.

The Jaguar’s cockpit is going to completely transform. It’s going to turn all glass. There will be digital MFDs (multifunction displays) replacing the traditional analog gauges and dials, and pilots will have fly-by-wire controls.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Sep 2012 15:18

And why SU-30's can't like Nukes, I think this is psy-ops.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nakul » 10 Sep 2012 15:22

I think only planes under the command of the SFC are supposed to be carrying nukes. Does SFC have a squadron of Su 30s?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Pratyush » 10 Sep 2012 15:41

Perhaps they are not wired for Nukes as yet. Or that information has not be released in the public domain.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Sep 2012 17:19

In the case of air tossed Nukes, like the one Enola Gay delivered, it is more like a Dumb Bomb.

Its only a question of trusting the Platform and hoping the Bomb design is good and will work, I don't there is too much special wiring etc.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nakul » 10 Sep 2012 17:34

Actually there is no such thing as a nuclear capable plane. If it can deliver a bomb, it can deliver a nuclear bomb of the same size & weight. The triggering mechanism is independent of the plane.

Usually, the most reliable plane in the fleet will be used to deliver nukes. This used to be Mirage & Jaguar for India. However, with the increased availability of missiles, the plane delivered nuke has lost its stature. Still the SFC retains them for added options. There were rumors that the Super Sukhoi upgrade planes might go to SFC for deterrence purposes. These would be far more capable than the existing fleet.

Rafale uses ASMP - A launched from Rafale as one of its two nuclear delivery options (The other being SLBMs) We could do with something similar in our arsenal. ASMP - A is 450 km range, hence it won't be exported. Storm Shadow with a range of 250+ km is likely to be ordered with Rafales for the MMRCA. We could use the upcoming Brahmos 3 or something similar as our homegrown delivery platform.

But since our most likely targets are next to our borders, air launched weapons can be complemented with ground launched missiles. Hence, we are likely to see more heavy missiles like Brahmos & Shaurya rather than the light ASMP - A types.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya G » 10 Sep 2012 21:41

nakul wrote:Actually there is no such thing as a nuclear capable plane. If it can deliver a bomb, it can deliver a nuclear bomb of the same size & weight. The triggering mechanism is independent of the plane.


For an aircraft to deliver free fall nuclear weapons has to have a aiming computer that calculates the time to release based on the bombing method and weight and design of the warhead. Free fall nukes have to be launched in trajectories suitable to this class of weapons.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 10 Sep 2012 22:23

^^^ any special arming and fusing computers required?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya G » 11 Sep 2012 20:32

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ any special arming and fusing computers required?


I doubt it will be a "computer", but a specialized mechanism nonetheless. What I was referring to was the aiming computer aboard the aircraft.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby VinodTK » 12 Sep 2012 05:06

IAF pilot refuses to ferry Rahul
GUWAHATI: An IAF chopper pilot who took AICC general secretary Rahul Gandhi to riot-hit areas of lower Assam from Guwahati airport on Tuesday refused to ferry him back citing bad weather. The pilot stood his ground despite defence minister A K Antony intervening.

"Guwahati ATC had cleared its flight but the IAF had a bad weather report," a source said. The chopper carried Rahul to Kokrajhar from Dhubri, from where he returned to Guwahati by road. Rahul will fly back to New Delhi by a special aircraft on Tuesday morning.

Chief minister Tarun Gogoi, who accompanied Rahul by the same chopper, is returning by train . The IAF refused to reveal the name of its pilot.

"The IAF earlier rejected Salakati helipad for the chopper's landing in Kokrajhar saying it was unsafe. A new helipad was built overnight at nearby Bongaigaon stadium. The IAF again refused to land at Bongaigaon and took the chopper to Kokrajhar at 2.45 pm. The weather over Kokrajhar was alright but the pilot said that weather over Guwahati wasn't suitable for flying. At 5.30 pm, Rahul returned to Guwahati by road," a source said.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Santosh » 12 Sep 2012 06:20

nakul wrote:I think only planes under the command of the SFC are supposed to be carrying nukes. Does SFC have a squadron of Su 30s?

IIRC an order of 40 Su 30's was placed earlier this year for SFC.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 12 Sep 2012 07:04

This was posted in the IAF thread on Keypubs by a poster named Twinblade.

What is new here is the new FBW for the Jaguar in place of its current mechanical linkages. Never heard of that for the DARIN 3 upgrade before.

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vasu raya » 12 Sep 2012 09:07

Autopilot leads to a terrain avoidance/following system being added later on? the low flying Jaguar's might as well have it as a requirement

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 12 Sep 2012 09:42

the jaguar has no radar, even after the upgrade...so how would it generate terrain following data?

on another note the Mig27 upg seems to have been capped at the original 40? and all the talk of a "podded Komar radar" seems to have been a false flag op?

these birds are on their way out...as it is the soviet era tactical aviation a/c were not designed for high longevity....this is a gap that Tejas can fill with a greater safety margin but without the fat 3-barrel cannon for gun runs.....use some other munitions and tactics instead. a cheap indo-israeli SFW packed into fat JASSM type containers - each Tejas to carry 4 + 2 R73 would be a good loadout and do a good job of attacking 'targets of opportunity'

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vasu raya » 12 Sep 2012 10:00

Hmmm... no radar in 2012 :-o

Anyways, whats wrong with having TCAS systems with requisite calibration for separation on mil Choppers? is it radio silence needed on the mission? the recent collision could have been avoided.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 12 Sep 2012 10:08

TCAS would never allow close formation flying common in military fixed and rotary wing systems. so it would have to be turned off even if mounted.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vina » 12 Sep 2012 11:05

Singha wrote:the jaguar has no radar, even after the upgrade...so how would it generate terrain following data?

From the laser on it's nose as a LIDAR ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby khukri » 12 Sep 2012 11:10

Singha wrote:the jaguar has no radar, even after the upgrade...so how would it generate terrain following data?
'


Not necessarily true, see link below.
IAI announced a mystery Asian customer for the EL-2032, which is apparently already fitted to the maritime interdiction versions of the IAF Jags according to this article from Defense Industry Daily.
They speculate that the Jags are one possible recipient for the EL2032.
Can anyone confirm that the naval strike Jags already have the EL2032?
I thought they carried a French radar. Was this replaced? When?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/IAI ... ery-07300/

Add to that this excerpt from the HAL website and it starts to make sense :

JAGUAR DARIN-III Upgrade
 
• Aircraft upgraded to DARIN-III standard would feature following equipment/systems in addition to those integrated as part of the recent strike aircraft produced (DARIN II + additional systems) :
• Modified avionics Architecture
• New cockpit with dual SMD on single seater A/C
• Integration of MULTI MODE RADAR on single seater Aircraft
• Engine and Flight Instrument system/Integrated Standby Instrument system (EFIS/ISIS) Integration to replace existing electro-mechanical flight instruments and/or engine instruments.
• Solid State Flight Data Recorder and Solid State Video Recording System
• Additional functionalities related to display, data transfer and Auto Pilot
• New Weapons
• Development activities would involve major structural modification to the airframe to accommodate the radar (on the nose cone of Strike aircraft). On the Avionics front Mission computer software development, new cockpit design, radar integration and solid state video recording system is to be addressed. Modification will also be required to be carried out on the air-conditioning system to meet the equipment cooling requirements.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby merlin » 12 Sep 2012 11:59

With the proposed upgrade looks like the Jags will still be potent and relevant for at least a decade more in the IAF. And should be more survivable in deep penetration with towed decoys and comprehensive jammers.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby khukri » 12 Sep 2012 12:05

merlin wrote:With the proposed upgrade looks like the Jags will still be potent and relevant for at least a decade more in the IAF. And should be more survivable in deep penetration with towed decoys and comprehensive jammers.


It looks like they're being converted to dedicated SEADS aircraft as primary role, with standoff strike as secondary role.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 12 Sep 2012 12:20

^^^ what is the anti-radar missile proposed?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby khukri » 12 Sep 2012 12:42

Lalmohan wrote:^^^ what is the anti-radar missile proposed?


Most sources say not determined yet, Prasun Sengupta however, had this to say " A wide range of PGMs are presently being evaluated by the IAF for the upgraded Jaguar IS, including the AASM from SAGEM (belonging to France’s SAFRAN Group), Raytheon’s JSOW, MBDA’s Diamond Back, Israel Military Industries’ (IMI) modular standoff vehicle (MSOV) and Delilah multi-role cruise missile, and Raytheon’s Paveway 4 and IAI’s Griffin-3 laser-guided bombs "

Believe what you will.... :-?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 12 Sep 2012 13:14

he has covered all bases for sure - he will be right :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby khukri » 12 Sep 2012 14:33

Singha wrote:he has covered all bases for sure - he will be right :mrgreen:


I did a little checking- actually this time we might have been a little unfair to PS, the original information came from George Mader at ACIG, here :

http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=47

Of course PS cut and paste the entire paragraph without crediting George Mader or ACIG, so not a complete redemption for him. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 12 Sep 2012 15:11

didnt we have some roosi anti radiation missiles in stock too? i guess its difficult to mate it with the jaguar
aasm would be interesting, i am sure we're buying it for the raffy

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby rohitvats » 13 Sep 2012 13:19

khukri wrote:
Singha wrote:he has covered all bases for sure - he will be right :mrgreen:


I did a little checking- actually this time we might have been a little unfair to PS, the original information came from George Mader at ACIG, here :

http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=47

Of course PS cut and paste the entire paragraph without crediting George Mader or ACIG, so not a complete redemption for him. :mrgreen:


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

He takes plagiarism to a different level... :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby kapilrdave » 13 Sep 2012 13:51

VinodTK wrote:IAF pilot refuses to ferry Rahul
GUWAHATI: An IAF chopper pilot who took AICC general secretary Rahul Gandhi to riot-hit areas of lower Assam from Guwahati airport on Tuesday refused to ferry him back citing bad weather. The pilot stood his ground despite defence minister A K Antony intervening....



Is Rahul legally entitled to fly in IAF chopper for a political trip?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby SKrishna » 13 Sep 2012 15:21

^^^^

Yes as he is protected by the SPG

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Kartik » 14 Sep 2012 00:15

Singha wrote:he has covered all bases for sure - he will be right :mrgreen:


:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby samsher » 14 Sep 2012 01:08

VinodTK wrote:IAF pilot refuses to ferry Rahul
GUWAHATI: An IAF chopper pilot who took AICC general secretary Rahul Gandhi to riot-hit areas of lower Assam from Guwahati airport on Tuesday refused to ferry him back citing bad weather. The pilot stood his ground despite defence minister A K Antony intervening.

"Guwahati ATC had cleared its flight but the IAF had a bad weather report," a source said. The chopper carried Rahul to Kokrajhar from Dhubri, from where he returned to Guwahati by road. Rahul will fly back to New Delhi by a special aircraft on Tuesday morning.

Chief minister Tarun Gogoi, who accompanied Rahul by the same chopper, is returning by train . The IAF refused to reveal the name of its pilot.

"The IAF earlier rejected Salakati helipad for the chopper's landing in Kokrajhar saying it was unsafe. A new helipad was built overnight at nearby Bongaigaon stadium. The IAF again refused to land at Bongaigaon and took the chopper to Kokrajhar at 2.45 pm. The weather over Kokrajhar was alright but the pilot said that weather over Guwahati wasn't suitable for flying. At 5.30 pm, Rahul returned to Guwahati by road," a source said.


^^^^^
Why is this even news??

The Pilot in command made a decision based on his judgement and info available to him. This is routine and probably happens more than we know.
But, leave it to TOIlet to make 'news' out this!. like him or not I would guess he is sane enough to not make 'nakhra' if the pilot who is supposed to fly him tells him that the flight is not possible because of weather.

Samsher

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shiv » 14 Sep 2012 05:23

Guess what happened to mummy's friend late YS Rajashekhara Reddy, CM of AP when the pilot was forced to fly a helo though bad weather?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vasu raya » 14 Sep 2012 09:01

Not an yuvraj fan, but are the AW101 Merlins for VVIPs all weather choppers? like test flown in Indian monsoon & NE terrain

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shiv » 14 Sep 2012 16:31

vasu raya wrote:Not an yuvraj fan, but are the AW101 Merlins for VVIPs all weather choppers? like test flown in Indian monsoon & NE terrain

There is no such thing as "all" all weather. If you are flying low past Himalayan size mountains trying to land in a storm with zero visibility nothing will make it.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vasu raya » 15 Sep 2012 04:32

As long as its Chai biskoot discussion, there is a qualitative difference between a C-130j and an upgraded AN-32 in terms of avionics and carries a tag of 'all weather capable', how does the Merlin compare with the Mi-17v5 on those terms? this is not about dissing Russian maal, just counting how far we have come in terms of capability

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vivek_ahuja » 15 Sep 2012 04:53

vasu raya wrote:As long as its Chai biskoot discussion, there is a qualitative difference between a C-130j and an upgraded AN-32 in terms of avionics and carries a tag of 'all weather capable', how does the Merlin compare with the Mi-17v5 on those terms? this is not about dissing Russian maal, just counting how far we have come in terms of capability


Mostly improvements in the avionics, control and EW gear. Lesser flight performance than the Mi-17V-5 for high altitude operations. Guess they won't be taking this to areas above Leh etc unless they decide to strip down the interiors and make it light.

But hey, its not like the politicos want to go anywhere dangerous and all, right? So we should be fine.

-Vivek

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby atreya » 15 Sep 2012 16:03

Bangaloreans! I spotted an AN 32 flying pretty low over Koramangala/Venkatapura area (around 10 am), with slight smoke emanating from one of the engines. Anyone else saw it? Is it normal for them to fly so low? I could clearly see the words 'Indian Air Force' on the plane, it was that low.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_20067 » 16 Sep 2012 20:43

Safeguarding our air bases--- ---

Taliban attacks Nato Air base and destroys Six Harrier jets. This is becoming a disturbing trend. I hope IAF is taking notice and putting appropriate measures in place. Seriously in far flung air-bases the perimeter defense need to be checked out. Once they reach flight line it will a mayhem.


http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1

Afghan insurgents who staged a daring, well-planned raid on Camp Bastion, the military base where Britain's Prince Harry is deployed, were wearing U.S. Army uniforms, NATO said a day after the attack.
The use of U.S. military uniforms may be a new insurgent tactic. NATO could not immediately provide CNN with previous examples.
At least two U.S. Marines were killed in the brazen strike late on Friday, and six jets were destroyed, NATO said as it released more details about the raid.
They destroyed six AV-8B Harrier jets and damaged two others before the attack ended, the coalition said


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