Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Shrinivasan » 12 Dec 2012 10:52

krishnan wrote:WOW...i should go there and watch them take off from sulur.....1 hr from where my house is
you can go and watch AN-32s and assorted trainers... may even get to eye the Sarangs...for SU30s and LCAs you need to wait till 2016!!!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby krishnan » 12 Dec 2012 10:53

No hurry,,,kovai is my native

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Bala Vignesh » 12 Dec 2012 12:00

indranilroy wrote:Question, does anybody know if the Mig-29 UPGs carries additional fuel in its LERXs?

Don't think so.. The Air intakes are still there and IIRC the plan was to replace it with an additional tank.. But i couldn't find any document that substantiates this..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2012 13:04

Bala I disagree, the air intakes from above the body have been removed and fuel tanks and fat spine have been added. See the latest IAF Orbat file posted a page or 2 above which hs a pic of new MIG-29 UPG's without those.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Bala Vignesh » 12 Dec 2012 14:07

^^ Aditya sir,
Are you referring to this post?? If so the MiG's there are sporting tail nos starting with KB, where as the upgraded ones have KBU as their starting letters..
Plus the image here clearly indicates that the over wing intakes are still there

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby anand_sankar » 12 Dec 2012 15:14

I think this picture is a good reference.

Image
http://www.airliners.net/photo/India---Air/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-29UPG-(9-20)/2038328/&sid=78e0e6cabcae23f0a584ed8a0132b75e

The documentation available about the upgrade of the Mig-29 clearly states that the entire mechanism for the LERX louvers will be removed and replaced with small fuel tanks. The engine intakes instead use flip-up mesh grilles like the Su-30MKI for FOD protection.

If you look at the image above you will see that the louvers are closed on take off. It simply means that the mechanisms have been removed and the louvers shut permanently. It is a good idea as it saves cost otherwise you will have to replace an entire structural component.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 12 Dec 2012 15:30

but those grates increase frontal rcs though. would be good to just replace with a flush panel.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2012 15:34

Bala Vignesh wrote:^^ Aditya sir,
Are you referring to this post?? If so the MiG's there are sporting tail nos starting with KB, where as the upgraded ones have KBU as their starting letters..
Plus the image here clearly indicates that the over wing intakes are still there


Yes , please see page 49 of 162 of that PDF.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby anand_sankar » 12 Dec 2012 15:43

@Aditya: Nothing on page 49 about the Mig-29

@Singha: There is no low-RCS attempt on the Mig-29 anyway. Loaded to bear with stuff hanging off its wings those louvers are not going to add much to the final RCS.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 12 Dec 2012 15:48

livefist says 3 upgMig29 now delivered to India by An124.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Nikhil T » 12 Dec 2012 15:51

sum wrote:India, Boeing haggle over aircraft deal

India has offered one-fourth of the price reportedly quoted by US aviation major Boeing to purchase 15 heavy-lift Chinook helicopters and 22 Apache attack helicopters for the air force.
:shock: :shock:
India’s combined offer for the two deals was around Rs 5,500 crore while Boeing demanded close to Rs 20,000 crore.

“The acceptance of necessity cost for 15 heavy-lift helicopters and 22 attack helicopters is Rs 2,468.41 crore and Rs 3,094.98 crore respectively. Boeing’s Chinook-CH-47F (I) and Apache AH-64D has emerged as the L1 vendor (lowest bidder) respectively,” Defence Minister A K Antony informed the Lok Sabha on Monday.

Boeing had reportedly quoted $ 1.4 billion (Rs 7,600 crore approximately) for the Apaches and $ 2.4 billion (about Rs 13,000 core) for the Chinooks.

The final price will depend on the outcome of the contract negotiation with the L1 vendor, the minister said, stressing that all capital procurements were carried out according to norms laid out in the defence procurement procedure.

How is there a 4X difference between the quoted and expected price for the deal??


Wow $110 million for a chopper?
Hope GOI dumps the offer. Even 5500 crore for 37 choppers is a bit much. We can spend the money in many better ways.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Juggi G » 12 Dec 2012 18:12

:D :D :D :D :D

The First Indian Air Force C-17A (F-253/IAF-1) CB-8001

Image

The First Indian Air Force C-17A (F-253/IAF-1) CB-8001 is bathed in the bright white light of the flight ramp flood lites on December 7, 2012 just hours after emerging from the production hanger at Long Beach Airport.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2012 18:54

Anand_ Shankar- pg 49/162 of the PDF has 2 Mig 29's picture, this may differ with page no given under each page.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 12 Dec 2012 19:53

anand_sankar wrote:The documentation available about the upgrade of the Mig-29 clearly states that the entire mechanism for the LERX louvers will be removed and replaced with small fuel tanks. The engine intakes instead use flip-up mesh grilles like the Su-30MKI for FOD protection.


Which documentation?

Aditya_V wrote:Anand_ Shankar- pg 49/162 of the PDF has 2 Mig 29's picture, this may differ with page no given under each page.

Those are not pictures of the Mig29 UPG program. Some of IAF's Mig-29s do not have louvers. I don't know the reason of the heterogeneity.

P.S. But I think you guys might be right. I see bort 3123 with and without the louvres. So they must have been removed after the upgrade. Will know soon.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Bala Vignesh » 12 Dec 2012 20:46

Indranilji,
Could you post the links for those two photos please???

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 12 Dec 2012 22:55

Bala Vignesh wrote:Indranilji,
Could you post the links for those two photos please???

No ji please.

With louvers
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/1/2/2045218.jpg

Without louvers
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40081089@N06/6008099896/

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Bala Vignesh » 12 Dec 2012 23:21

indranilroy wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:Indranilji,
Could you post the links for those two photos please???

No ji please.

With louvers
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/1/2/2045218.jpg

Without louvers
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40081089@N06/6008099896/

Indranilji,
If you look closer in the second photo, you can clearly see that the over wing intakes are still there..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 13 Dec 2012 00:15

MAy be, the louvres fit so flush on closing. But to me, where the louvres used to beseems to be covered with a panel which has something written over it in red (Most probably do not step).

Please don't confuse between the serrations which appear even in the Mig-29 SMT/Mig29K/Mig 35. They are placed just behind where the louvres used to be.
Image
Last edited by Indranil on 13 Dec 2012 00:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 13 Dec 2012 00:17

anyways, I am not sure. That is the reason why I asked if somebody knew it affirmatively. :-)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Anurag » 13 Dec 2012 00:41

Russia delivers three upgraded MiG-29 fighter jets to India
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/russi ... a/1043761/

Russia has delivered the first three upgraded MiG-29UPG fighter jets to India under a USD 900 million contract to modernise the ageing fleet of MiG-29 aircraft with the IAF, the MIG corporation has announced.

"The MiG corporation has started deliveries of upgraded MiG-29UPG fighter jets to the Indian Air Force," the company said in a statement.

"The first three aircraft have been transported to India on board an AN-124 heavy-lift transport plane," the statement said.

The IAF has awarded the MiG corporation a USD 900 million contract to upgrade all of its 69 operational MiG-29s.

These upgrades include a new avionics kit, with the N-109 radar being replaced by a Phazatron Zhuk-M radar. The aircraft is also being equipped to enhance beyond-visual-range combat ability and for air-to-air refuelling to increase flying time.

The service life of the modernised aircraft has been extended to 40 years, RIA Novosti news agency reported.

The first six aircraft are upgraded in Russia while the remaining 63 will be refitted at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) facility in India.

In 2007, Russia gave HAL a license to manufacture 120 RD-33 series 3 turbojet engines for the upgrade.

"We are getting ready to carry out the work on the second part of the contract, which stipulates the modernisation of the [MiG-29] aircraft in India in close cooperation with the Indian defence industry," the MiG press service said.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 14 Dec 2012 03:46

Update on LUH in HAL Connect: Issue 44. It contains a nice picture too.

The first Cockpit structure assembly of Light Utility Helicopter Ground Test Vehicle (LUH GTV) was completed and unloaded from the jig on December 6, 2012 in presence of Shri P. Soundara Rajan, Managing Director (Helicopter Complex), Shri M.S. Srinath, Executive Director (Helicopter Complex), Dr. M. Vijayakumar, Officiating General Manager (RWRDC) and other officers of RWRDC. The cockpit frame is Monocoque in construction made out composite carbon fabric, fabricated in Composite Manufacturing Division (CMD) – HAL, Bangalore. The latest concept of structural design/jig design using Uni-Graphics, resulted in the structure build in smooth and flaw less “first of structure”. This cockpit structure will be assembled in LUH main coupling jig.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby neerajb » 14 Dec 2012 11:00

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40081089@N06/6008099896/

Flamed out left engine? Con-di nozzle can be at the fully open position only in two cases 1) Afterburner lit or 2) Flamed out engine.

Upg MiG-29 has become one ugly bird. That stoop makes it look like it has aged.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Nikhil T » 14 Dec 2012 12:01

India flexes air muscle: Air Force to conduct its biggest exercise in a decade

Flowing from its 80th anniversary celebrations, the Indian Air Force is getting set to conduct its biggest exercise in a decade, named Livewire, in March 2013. As an adjunct to the effort, the air force combat fleet will be involved in a live firing air power demonstration called Iron Fist to be held in February at the Pokhran range in Rajasthan. This will be capped by the air force's participation in the Red Flag exercise hosted by the US Air Force at the Nellis Air Force base in the United States.

The Indian Air Force will conduct its biggest exercise in March 2013 Livewire is the most ambitious of these events since it will involve the entire IAF. Exercises will be held in every command, both separately and in an integrated manner.The IAF will also get a number of new aircraft next year, with the stage set for the induction of C-17 transporters in mid-2013. Pilatus PC-7, the new trainers, too, will be delivered around the same time. Livewire had earlier been scheduled for last March but was deferred. The last such drill, though at a slightly smaller scale, was carried out six years ago.

With this, the air force aims to validate its battlefield preparedness concepts as well as new tactics that arise from its acquisition of in-flight refuelling and the Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACs).
The Iron Fist will include day and night operations in which around 100 aircraft will participate, including Sukhoi-30, Jaguar, Mirage 2000, Mig-21 and Mi-25 attack helicopters.The fire-power display at Pokhran will also witness a demonstration by light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas, which will be among the wide range of fighters taking part in the drill. This will be the LCA's first outing in an IAF live-fire exercise. President Pranab Mukherjee is likely to attend one of the demonstration sessions along with defence minister A.K. Antony.

After the two internal drills, IAF combat pilots will fly to the Nellis Air Force base in the US state of Nevada for the Red Flag exercise.
The IAF had earlier participated in the Red Flag, a multinational training in which real battlefield situations are simulated, in 2008. Eight Su-30 MKI fighters had undergone the rigorous exercise, winning accolades for the IAF's professionalism.

It had cost Rs 100 crore as the aircraft undertook around 350 sorties and a team of more than 100 personnel were air lifted to the US in an IL-76 transport aircraft, accompanied by an IL-78 in-flight refuelling aircraft.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 14 Dec 2012 13:08

it has ended up looking like a Su27/35 spine now.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nachiket » 14 Dec 2012 13:14

Bah! It gives the 29 more range. That's all that matters.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 14 Dec 2012 13:52

I am not complaining about it. infact I love that humpback whale look.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 14 Dec 2012 22:01

Okay, update about the Lakshya PTA's new towed target being developed by ADE. I was interested to know what engine they were going to use. There is a tender out for the same. Turns out that they are going to (most probably) import 6 engines first and subsequently build 4 engines indigenously. This is fine, as there are already a lot of players in this field like AMT, Heward Microjects, Wren, Jetcat, SWB turbines etc. I think ADE should be able to buy engines off the shelf.

But the numbers don't quite add up though.
1. There was a tender for 20 fuselages earlier. But the tender is only for 10 engines.
2. Who the hell is going to setup a facility to manufacture only 4 engines (ADE says, it won't)?

More information at the tender on DRDO's webpage for active tenders.
Last edited by Indranil on 14 Dec 2012 23:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby bhavani » 14 Dec 2012 23:08

indranilroy wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:Indranilji,
Could you post the links for those two photos please???

No ji please.

With louvers
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/1/2/2045218.jpg

Without louvers
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40081089@N06/6008099896/


The upgraded Mig-29 seems to be carrying Kh-35 Air launched version. When did we acquire air launched kh-35. Air launched kh-35 has a pretty decent range of around 180Km. It is a pretty good addition.

Coming to looks, who cares, as long as it can carry a decent load and improve its range and survival chances, it is all good.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby rsharma » 15 Dec 2012 00:03

A noob question - does the hump increase drag enough to significantly affect manoeuvrability ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby nachiket » 15 Dec 2012 00:06

rsharma wrote:A noob question - does the hump increase drag enough to significantly affect manoeuvrability ?

I guess it can't be worse than the two side mounted CFT's on the F-16.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 15 Dec 2012 02:04

Not by much.

Nachiketji, it does not matter where you strap them (Whitcomb's rule). Skin drag will be negligible when compared to the wave drag.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singha » 15 Dec 2012 08:28

if we can get the Jags upgraded to DarinIII std, every a/c in the IAF barring the surviving Mig27s will have a radar and bvr missile combo + good self protection EW.

something for enemies to think about.

also Jags could carry harpoon/exocet and the Mig29s the KH35 and M2K could carry exocet for a huge swing role Anti-SAG capability without depending on the palty few navalized Jags or retasking of the brahmos equipped 42 Super 30s. we could literally send in 60 a.c armed with ASMs to backup the P8/IL38 shooters.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vic » 15 Dec 2012 18:17

indranilroy wrote:Okay, update about the Lakshya PTA's new towed target being developed by ADE. I was interested to know what engine they were going to use. There is a tender out for the same. Turns out that they are going to (most probably) import 6 engines first and subsequently build 4 engines indigenously. This is fine, as there are already a lot of players in this field like AMT, Heward Microjects, Wren, Jetcat, SWB turbines etc. I think ADE should be able to buy engines off the shelf.

But the numbers don't quite add up though.
1. There was a tender for 20 fuselages earlier. But the tender is only for 10 engines.
2. Who the hell is going to setup a facility to manufacture only 4 engines (ADE says, it won't)?

More information at the tender on DRDO's webpage for active tenders.


Engine weight seems to be 2.4kg which means tow body will weight around 50-100 kg(?)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby MN Kumar » 15 Dec 2012 22:44

Saw an LCA this morning while it was coming in to land. It was carrying one LGB on the left wing. Could'nt verify if it was carrying Lighting too though.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby shiv » 15 Dec 2012 23:00

MN Kumar wrote:Saw an LCA this morning while it was coming in to land. It was carrying one LGB on the left wing. Could'nt verify if it was carrying Lighting too though.

+2 lactating goats to you

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Indranil » 15 Dec 2012 23:20

vic wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Okay, update about the Lakshya PTA's new towed target being developed by ADE. I was interested to know what engine they were going to use. There is a tender out for the same. Turns out that they are going to (most probably) import 6 engines first and subsequently build 4 engines indigenously. This is fine, as there are already a lot of players in this field like AMT, Heward Microjects, Wren, Jetcat, SWB turbines etc. I think ADE should be able to buy engines off the shelf.

But the numbers don't quite add up though.
1. There was a tender for 20 fuselages earlier. But the tender is only for 10 engines.
2. Who the hell is going to setup a facility to manufacture only 4 engines (ADE says, it won't)?

More information at the tender on DRDO's webpage for active tenders.


Engine weight seems to be 2.4kg which means tow body will weight around 50-100 kg(?)


Can't relate by engine weight. But going by a thrust of around 23 kgf, and maintaining a same TWR with Lakshya, it should be more near the 50kg mark.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby D Roy » 16 Dec 2012 09:59

look the rise of the HAL Tejas is a given.

The IAF needs this plane and has made that amply clear. that is precisely why 1500 crores 'extra' was given after all.

Besides with TSP showing of pindigenous Bandaar and Chicom with its new models, India has to keep the domestic aerospace flag flying high.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby keshavchandra » 16 Dec 2012 11:18

Suu Kyi praises Indian Air Force pilots for being ‘professional’ and ‘sweet’
“I enjoyed my time in India thoroughly from beginning to end, particularly impressed by the Air Force Pilots who flew me back. They are the kind of professional military men I like to see,” said the 67-year-old Suu Kyi who was placed under house arrest for 15 of the past 21 years on different occasions.

She added: “They (IAF) are very very sweet. So very soldierly in the best kind of way, officers and gentlemen. 8)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_23455 » 16 Dec 2012 20:41

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/us-made-apache-choppers-will-be-for-the-air-force-says-chief-n-a-k-browne-306056

The ridiculous feuding over turf continues between the Army and IAF. Fat chance we will get a CDS anytime soon when then IAF can't even accept the writing on the wall graciously.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby putnanja » 18 Dec 2012 02:03

India planning to procure two more AWACS for IAF: Government

...
NEW DELHI: India is planning to procure two more Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) for the Indian Air Force, Lok Sabha was informed today.

"Three AWACS are already operationalised in the IAF and there is a proposal for procurement of two additional AWACS," Defence Minister A K Antony said in a written reply.

He said the long-term integrated perspective plan seeks to have a mix of large AWACS aircraft and small Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system aircraft.
...


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