Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

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SaiK
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby SaiK » 22 Sep 2013 22:50

sengupta (referred as chor gupta in BR) is not trustworthy /ot/fyi.

Karan M
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Karan M » 22 Sep 2013 23:11

The Indian suite includes the DARE R118, the JV MAWS, and a SAAB LWS. The HAL usage of SAAB IDAS was when the local version wasn't ready..it will probably supplant the SAAB one in new programs.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby pragnya » 23 Sep 2013 06:29

SaiK wrote:sengupta (referred as chor gupta in BR) is not trustworthy /ot/fyi.


i know that. but the picture is of 'DARE BROCHURE'. :wink:

.............

Karan M, thanks for the clarifying on the LWS.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Vipul » 23 Sep 2013 22:55

HAL delivers home-made 'Hawk' to Indian Navy.

The first home-made Hawk Mk 132 aircraft by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was handed over to the Indian Navy here today.

"We built this aircraft in time and this is the first of the five aircraft to be delivered to the Indian Navy. The remaining four will be delivered soon," said HAL Chairman R K Tyagi, who handed over the related documents to Vice Admiral Pradeep K Chatterjee, Deputy Chief of Naval Staff.

Tyagi said it is matter of pride that all the training aircraft of the Indian Navy have been supplied by HAL. "We are carrying forward this legacy and will ensure that Navy gets all the support from HAL on all parameters," he added.

Hawk Mk 132 is the latest entry into HAL-made and maintained aircraft and helicopters of Indian Navy which include Kiran and Do-228 aircraft, Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), Chetak and Cheetah helicopters, according to a statement of the Bangalore-headquartered defence PSU.

In addition, HAL has also supported Navy in upgrade of Sea Harrier.

Vice Admiral Chatterjee said the Navy has long standing unique partnership with HAL.

"We will continue to work shoulder to shoulder for all our current and future programmes. Hawk delivered today will have a pride of place in Navy's fleet. Given the fruitful association with HAL, we will even think of reviving past projects," the statement quoted him as saying.

Against the contract for supplying 17 Hawk aircraft, HAL plans to deliver five aircraft in the current fiscal and balance in next three years.

The Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer is a dual seat multi-purpose aircraft powered by a single Rolls Royce Adour Mk.871 engine. The Hawk AJT is primarily used for basic, advanced and weapons training of the pilots. However, the aircraft has the capabilities to be used as a ground attack aircraft or for air defence.

The Hawk AJT has excellent flying characteristics with good stability. It can be flown at night and can perform wide range of aerobatic manoeuvres. The aircraft can remarkably accommodate a wide variety of external stores, HAL said.

The cockpit is arranged in an efficient ergonomic manner to provide a lead-in to modern front line aircraft. The cockpit provides an excellent field of view for both pilots.

The instructor's station in the rear cockpit has appropriate override control of vital functions, it added.

The primary flight control systems are provided by means of an all-moving tailplane, aileron and rudder deflections respectively.

The secondary flight control systems comprise wing double slotted flaps and an air brake on the underside of the rear fuselage, according to HAL.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby NRao » 23 Sep 2013 23:13

Vipul wrote:HAL delivers home-made 'Hawk' to Indian Navy.

The Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer is a dual seat multi-purpose aircraft powered by a single Rolls Royce Adour Mk.871 engine. The Hawk AJT is primarily used for basic, advanced and weapons training of the pilots. However, the aircraft has the capabilities to be used as a ground attack aircraft or for air defence.


..............................


Is that right. Was not aware of that capability.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby gnair » 24 Sep 2013 03:30

BAE-Hawks should be able to cover every bit of 'offensive ground support' and more, that a Mig-21 covers, if not better. Hope they decide to build up the Hawk inventory to beyond training needs. It should also be able to cover a large profile of what a Naval LCA of the future is hoping to accomplish, which is primarily fleet air-defense. On the air defense role, the current ones acquired don't have a radar, but the Hawk-2 has a multi-mode radar capability. The Adour engines are non after-burning though. Tough built, proven, economical on the hour to operate and easy maintenance. Sometimes wished they had thought of the Adour for the IJT and built around it, instead of the Larzac or AL-55 and getting into all kinds of problems and messing up the program recklessly.

member_26622
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_26622 » 24 Sep 2013 10:47

From Wiki
BAE Hawk: 18 million GBP=29 million USD
HAL Tejas: 31 million

Hawks will be sitting ducks against any half decent Gen 2 planes and they are British. As it is we are paying nose bleed amount for an outdated piece of equipment and then to buy more when we have a 4.5 gen plane for the same price?

Do we need to be reminded of how the British 'treated' our forefathers for 300 plus years and still look upon Indians even today...treated is a small word, the correct word is R!@#$.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby member_23455 » 24 Sep 2013 15:04

gnair wrote:BAE-Hawks should be able to cover every bit of 'offensive ground support' and more, that a Mig-21 covers, if not better. Hope they decide to build up the Hawk inventory to beyond training needs. It should also be able to cover a large profile of what a Naval LCA of the future is hoping to accomplish, which is primarily fleet air-defense. On the air defense role, the current ones acquired don't have a radar, but the Hawk-2 has a multi-mode radar capability. The Adour engines are non after-burning though. Tough built, proven, economical on the hour to operate and easy maintenance. Sometimes wished they had thought of the Adour for the IJT and built around it, instead of the Larzac or AL-55 and getting into all kinds of problems and messing up the program recklessly.


Folks, take a deep breath and relax before going down these mazy tunnels. All this "secondary" capability of the Hawk has been covered before, on this forum. It exists mostly on paper, is a nice to have when all your frontline force is dead and gone (at which point you will have bigger things to worry about than hoping for some David vs Goliath miracle to occur), and unlike the An-12 and now An-32 chaps who practice some bomb delivery profiles, both the instructor and students who fly the Hawks don't practice DACT and LFE scenarios with them, because they have their hands full with other stuff. The only non-training inventory that is being built up is for the formation display team.

Net, in the Indian context, this is a good bullet point to have in a PPT slide or discuss for the sake of discussion on BR.

nik wrote:From Wiki
BAE Hawk: 18 million GBP=29 million USD
HAL Tejas: 31 million

Hawks will be sitting ducks against any half decent Gen 2 planes and they are British. As it is we are paying nose bleed amount for an outdated piece of equipment and then to buy more when we have a 4.5 gen plane for the same price?

Do we need to be reminded of how the British 'treated' our forefathers for 300 plus years and still look upon Indians even today...treated is a small word, the correct word is R!@#$.


Korrekt! :) Therefore the IAF has no plans for using them on the frontlines. But how is the Hawk outdated for its role...a role we took 20 years to make up our minds on.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Singbhai » 28 Sep 2013 01:17

Self deleted
Last edited by Singbhai on 28 Sep 2013 01:21, edited 1 time in total.

Rahul M
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Rahul M » 28 Sep 2013 01:20

wrong thread. plz post in international aviation thread.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Austin » 28 Sep 2013 22:30

India’s Own MALE UAS Still in Development

India’s own medium-altitude long-endurance (Male) UAS has experienced another delay, with first flight now expected toward the end of next year. A senior official from the Defense Research Development Organization (DRDO) told AIN that the Rustom-2 project has suffered from lack of access to technology for sensors and engines. “Requirements for ISR are huge in India, given threats from the border. However, Hale, micro and nano UAVs require powerful algorithms. That is where we require help,” added V.S. Chandra Shekhar, associate director of the DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE).

Shekhar said that taxi trials of the Rustom-2 are now scheduled for the middle of next year. The Indian Army has ordered 77. While government-owned Hindustan Aeronautics and Bharat Electronics will be taking the lead in manufacturing, the DRDO is also considering opening it to the private sector, Shekhar told AIN.

The Rustom-2 takes off and lands on a conventional undercarriage, unlike the Nishant UAV that DRDO previously designed, which is rail-launched from a truck. It has a wingspan of 21 meters (nearly 70 feet), an endurance of more than 24 hours and a payload of 350 kg (840 pounds). In late August, Avinash Chander, scientific advisor to the defense minister, said that within a couple of months the DRDO would test-fire precision-guided munitions (PGMs) that can be launched from unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) such as the Rustom-2. However, Shekhar told AIN, work had not started on PGMs that remained “classified.”

India’s armed forces are currently flying the IAI Heron Male UAS, as well as the smaller Searcher tactical UAS. It was previously reported that the Rustom 2 would carry Israeli sensors.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby John » 29 Sep 2013 00:04

nik wrote:From Wiki
BAE Hawk: 18 million GBP=29 million USD
HAL Tejas: 31 million

Hawks will be sitting ducks against any half decent Gen 2 planes and they are British. As it is we are paying nose bleed amount for an outdated piece of equipment and then to buy more when we have a 4.5 gen plane for the same price?

Do we need to be reminded of how the British 'treated' our forefathers for 300 plus years and still look upon Indians even today...treated is a small word, the correct word is R!@#$.

Haven't seen hawk bashing in a while would love to jump on it, even though that is only IAF acquisition/program that has actually gone according to plan recently. But the costs are incorrect, manufactured locally the price is 57 for 1.2 billion. Compare that with M-346 with 35 million+ price tag or what Saudi's are paying for Hawk 165 (gold plated?).

So what other option do we have, give HAL 1 billion dollars and may be see a AJT see clearance sometime before 2050. IMO the best solution is developing our private industries but that takes time and $$.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby vishvak » 29 Sep 2013 00:18

Training purpose will be necessary even after say 50 years. So any indegenous efforts will be good anyways. In fact common logistics would be better so perhaps that could be explicitly incorporated too later on once developed. Thinking out of box only for IJT in border security mode could fire NAG missile if target is acquired and if it makes practical sense ie make it as indegenous as possible could be one aim amongst many. Imagine whole bunch of fire&forget Nag missile fired - especially the least heavy one.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby sanjaykumar » 29 Sep 2013 00:59

So indigenous MALE needs phoren engine, sensors and algorithms.

Thank goodness India makes carbon black for the tyres.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Sagar G » 29 Sep 2013 01:02

It's subtle psy-ops, we are not getting any foreign help w.r.t. Rustom or any other UAV programme for that matter.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

Postby Rahul M » 29 Sep 2013 01:19

time for a new thread.


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