Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions

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Atri
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Atri » 31 Jan 2012 19:14

Excellent news. If swami is right, this might another bofors in years to come in the resumé of gandhi dynasty. but just like bofors, rafale is a technically excellent choice. India will benefit either way. Happy to see my favorite aircraft in final negotiations round..
Last edited by Atri on 31 Jan 2012 19:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Dmurphy » 31 Jan 2012 19:15

saje wrote:


The Gandhi family's corrupt defence deals have a way of coming back to save our b***s when needed the most. Case in point -- the Bofors Gun during Kargil. So that way, if indeed Sonia Gandhi & Family have profited from this deal, I take it as a good omen! Amen.

Lets face it, there were only 2 options to choose from when Shiv Aroor wrote that blog post - so it always had 50% chance of winning the competition. What if the EF had won the deal? Would you have showered praises on the "the family" for being clean and uncorrupt? No. Then we would have had people calling her a an Italian/Aermacchi agent pushing the EF down the IAF's throat. There is no end to this paranoia. So lets not read too much into it and rejoice the fact that we finally got through a decade long competition without any serious allegations of corruption.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby VinayG » 31 Jan 2012 19:15

LUNGI dance PEEPS



Image

shukla
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shukla » 31 Jan 2012 19:20

The story so far... Saga with a happy ending.

The twists and turns of India's biggest defence deal

This is how India's biggest defence deal - a $10.4-billion tender for 126 combat aircraft - panned out:

* 2000: Indian Air Force (IAF) conveys to defence ministry its interest in acquiring medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) to replace its ageing fleet of Soviet-era MiG-21s and because of delays in developing the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA).

* 2001: IAF issues request for information (RFI) for 126 combat jets.

* 2003: IAF seeks defence ministry's permission to buy 50 more French Mirage-2000s to shore up the only MMRCAs in its fleet as a stop-gap arrangement. The aircraft had been acquired in the mid-1980s.

* 2004: Defence ministry asks IAF to instead issue a larger MMRCA tender.

* 2005: Defence ministry issues initial MMRCA tender but withdraws it quickly even as it starts receiving responses from vendors.

* 2006: The then IAF chief, Air Chief Marshal S.P. Tyagi, flags the dwindling squadron strength of the force. From a sanctioned strength of 39.5 combat squadrons, the IAF is down to 33 squadrons.

* August 2007: India issues the tender for 126 MMRCAs at an estimated cost of $10.4 billion.

* February 2008: US majors Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russia's United Aircraft Corporation, France's Dassault, European consortium EADS and Sweden's SAAB submit their bids.

* April 2009: Reports that Dassault and SAAB are out of the race.

* May 2009: Defence ministry says Dassault and SAAB still in contention.

* April 2010: IAF completes its flight and weapons evaluation of the six contenders on the basis of 643 parameters.

* December 2010: Offset proposals of contenders goes missing; later found on the roadside in south Delhi. The incident threatens to derail the tendering process.

* April 2011: India down-selects EADS and Dassault for the final leg of the contest, rejecting the other four contenders.

* November 2011: The commercial offers from European consortium Eurofighter and France's Dassault Aviation opened.

January 31, 2012: Dassault informed that it has emerged as the lowest bidder.
Last edited by archan on 31 Jan 2012 20:58, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: typo in the news. Fixed here. It is January 31, 2012.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby chackojoseph » 31 Jan 2012 19:21



Dassault has official comment on this, I have incorporated on the above link....

sooraj
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby sooraj » 31 Jan 2012 19:22

Dassault shares rose more than 22 percent in Paris trading to 749 euros, highest in 22 yrs :D

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Jan 2012 19:24

arunsrinivasan wrote:Congrats to Rafale - how can we figure out if the contract will ensure that Dassault does not hold us to ransom in future like the M2K deal?


It now looks like the High price of M2K was related to this deal. Common weapons and infrastructure

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shukla » 31 Jan 2012 19:29

      The Dassualt team has been issued a letter confirming the Indian MOD's choice, sources told Defenseworld.net. Separately, Eurofighter executives were called in and informed of their elimination from the contest this afternoon,sources close to Eurofighter informed Defenseworld.net.

      The final choice was made on price, sources said adding that the French aircraft's total cost worked to about 20% cheaper than that of the Eurofighter.


http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensen ... %20Contest

Will
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Will » 31 Jan 2012 19:29

Ok Ok. Everyone seems to be confirming the news now. Right now being shown on NDTV 24/7.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Kailash » 31 Jan 2012 19:35

20% looks more probable than this...

Times Now is stating that "significantly" lower price means that there's atleast 10,000 crore price difference.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_20453 » 31 Jan 2012 19:37

They claim the Raffy is upto 5 million cheaper than the EF, i guess the difference goes to Sonia :)

Well for now it seems calm, lets see how calm it remains over the next few months; the deal still has to be signed, the day it is finally signed will be the day we can rejoice. If corruption allegations come, it will be now. Swami now has ammo for his rifle and his aim is Sonia and the Raffy. The problem is EF has had no allegation against it in India, Rafale does. Swami will be rejoicing since he knows he can throw this off track. This deal ain't over till it really they sign it, till then Raffy just is the L-1 the one in position to win. It now faces a host of major hurdles that will make it hard for it endure, tough fight ahead.

http://www.stratpost.com/the-long-road- ... -shortlist

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shukla » 31 Jan 2012 19:38

Shares in Dassault Aviation rocketed more than 20% as the latest news broke.


French Minister of State for Foreign Trade Pierre Lellouche welcomed the deal, the first foreign order for the Rafale multi-role jet.

He said: "This is good news and France needs good news right now... It is good news for our aerospace industry and for our defence industry."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-16809532

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_20163 » 31 Jan 2012 19:38

Raffy Raffy Raffy - Way to go - >>> so happy that the soap opera was concluded in my life time :)... :rotfl: :wink:

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Philip » 31 Jan 2012 19:44

"Yahoo!",in the immortal style of Shammi Kapoor. Did not the Oracle say that the massive doses of solar "flare" was an anagram for "rafel"?

The early inking of the massively expensive M-2000 upgrade surely "sweetened" the price for the Raffy and the MICA deal should've given all a clue too.Poor Typhoo.The many doubts about the number of "cooks" required to serve the dish to Indian palates was probably a major factor apart from price.Champagne and caviar time,Moulin Rouge here I come! "Vive la France-Jai Hind!"

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Will » 31 Jan 2012 19:48

Septimus P. wrote:They claim the Raffy is upto 5 million cheaper than the EF, i guess the difference goes to Sonia :)

Well for now it seems calm, lets see how calm it remains over the next few months; the deal still has to be signed, the day it is finally signed will be the day we can rejoice. If corruption allegations come, it will be now. Swami now has ammo for his rifle and his aim is Sonia and the Raffy. The problem is EF has had no allegation against it in India, Rafale does. Swami will be rejoicing since he knows he can throw this off track. This deal ain't over till it really they sign it, till then Raffy just is the L-1 the one in position to win. It now faces a host of major hurdles that will make it hard for it endure, tough fight ahead.

http://www.stratpost.com/the-long-road- ... -shortlist


Someone should export Swamy to Pak/China and you to Amrika or Britan :D . All we need is someone derailing the deal with weird theories. We dont have another 15 years to go through another process.
Last edited by Will on 31 Jan 2012 19:51, edited 1 time in total.

Rishirishi
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Rishirishi » 31 Jan 2012 19:51

anyone knows what the ofsets are. They are expected to purchase some 6 billion dollars of stuff, or am i wrong?
Hopefully a second competitor to HAL will be given the task to build the birds.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby brat » 31 Jan 2012 19:59

Snehashis wrote:Raffy in IAF colour via twitter.

Image


I am in love :D

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_20163 » 31 Jan 2012 20:00

Imo - TATA should lead the consortium with M&M and few others making a group to build these birds. That would help to bring out best from both sectors. Any ideas how its going to be...

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Cybaru » 31 Jan 2012 20:02

Finally!! Time to bring home Spectra and work on next gen version of it for AMCA/LCA-2.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shukla » 31 Jan 2012 20:03

France's Rafale deal to include tech transfer-Sarkozy

PARIS (Reuters) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Tuesday said that he welcomed a decision by India's government to enter into "exclusive negotiations" with France's Dassault for the purchase of 126 Rafale jet fighter planes.

In a statement, Sarkozy said talks over the contract would begin shortly, adding that the deal would include significant transfers of technology guaranteed by the French state.

Dassault Aviation confirmed earlier that its fighter plane had been selected by the Indian air force.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_22605 » 31 Jan 2012 20:04

Great news! The Rafale was my personal choice too and so was it for many of my mates. And coming to the production of these birds, i don't see any worthy manufacturer in India and maybe to some extent in asia who can be considered able ahead of HAL.
Cheers.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby eklavya » 31 Jan 2012 20:07

http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/ ... id=1636502

Looks like the French are taking nothing for granted until it is signed and sealed.

Looking forward to Rafale flying with IAF roundels.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby RamaY » 31 Jan 2012 20:09

Hara Hara Mahadev!

Now let us equip this beauty with all Sula, Gada, Chakra, Paasa etc Aayudhas.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby chackojoseph » 31 Jan 2012 20:11



French President statement also included in the above link.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Singha » 31 Jan 2012 20:14

I hope serious talks begin soon on the weapons pkg and strategic projects like the kaveri-snecma should also get a moral boost due to this.

for cost reasons, we should likely buy and sign into contract to integrate
- amraamc7
- sudarshan
- astra
- nirbhay-a
- anything else we come up with that fits
- python5 for the knife fight
- certain models of GBU and CBU we select (not all needed)
- crystal maze
- taurus or storm shadow if we purchase in limited nos
- SDB2
- helina as desi brimstone :evil:


else the cost of a totally french weapons pkg will exceed that of the 'main' deal :rotfl:

essentials:
Mica-ER
CFT
RBE2-EE
M88-EPE
OSF2
spherical MAWS
towed decoy
Spectra5
Last edited by Singha on 31 Jan 2012 20:25, edited 1 time in total.

Asit P
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Asit P » 31 Jan 2012 20:17

Patience is bitter but its fruit is always sweet :) .

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Gurneesh » 31 Jan 2012 20:19

Finally some news...

But it is Dejavu for EADS: LCA engine (rumors say EJ2000 is ahead) and then EF (again the rumors).

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_22626 » 31 Jan 2012 20:22

technically i dont know which one would have been superior than the other.... but raffy is much more beautiful than typhy... i vouch that :D

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Rahul M » 31 Jan 2012 20:24

Rakesh wrote:Katrina won! YAAY!!!! Barfis are coming!!!!

Good job! An excellent choice considering this is going to be quite expensive for us and has offset the exorbitant cost of the Mirage 2000 upgrade.

MarcH was right after all!

we are still waiting for the 9000 tonnes of mithai ! :mrgreen:

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Singha » 31 Jan 2012 20:26

the freighter carrying the 9000t of siberian pine nut burfi hit a iceberg in foggy conditions off kamchatka and was lost with all hands... :D

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby rajanb » 31 Jan 2012 20:27

raghuk wrote:Great news! The Rafale was my personal choice too and so was it for many of my mates. And coming to the production of these birds, i don't see any worthy manufacturer in India and maybe to some extent in asia who can be considered able ahead of HAL.
Cheers.


I totally agree with you Raghuk.

I have seen what HAL did on their own with the MiGs. More power to you guys. I shudder at the thought that over a decade we will have a private Military Industrial Complex. The downhill skiing of the Khans have to be partially placed at their private MiLs doorstep.

Having said that, I abhor the fact that the politicians have snaked into the efficient working of companies such as AI, HAL and others. This was definitely not the case in the 70's and 80's.

But kudos to so many youngsters, in organisations such as HAL, NAL, ISRO. You keep the bright flame of India burning.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Victor » 31 Jan 2012 20:28

Image

Asterix runs away with it!

I wonder why it took so long though if the difference in price was so significant.

The extra 80 planes should hopefully be the F-35 or F-18 for a truly potent lineup.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_19648 » 31 Jan 2012 20:33

^^Because there were other considerations like offsets. Congrats Dassault for equipping India with a potent fighter.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby JTull » 31 Jan 2012 20:41

chackojoseph wrote:


Dassault has official comment on this, I have incorporated on the above link....


The last line should read 108 instead of 118.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby rajanb » 31 Jan 2012 20:42

sooraj wrote:Dassault shares rose more than 22 percent in Paris trading to 749 euros, highest in 22 yrs :D


Septimus P: This is actually in response to your various posts seemingly trying and hoping against hope that Raffy doesn't win. I am on record here, stating that I did not care which of the two birds won, as long as the IAF got the bird of their choice. And the Raffy was one of their two choices.

Now about corruption. If I were a corrupt politico rather than leave a trail leading back to Dassault, (I have quoted Sooraj's post here), I would have known that the Rafale was winning. So with the billion of $$s stashed away, hypothetically, I would have made 22% on my money by buying shares in not only Dassault, but the various companies involved with the Rafale.

The fact that the choice is L1 blunts the chorus of charges which would have arisen from politicos, who would have questioned the decision in the "interest" of SOS (saving Our Souls).

And if the Khans can nuzzle upto the corrupt Porkistuns, what makes you feel that Govt. to Govt. deals with the Khans is free from this malaise?

BTW Septimus, are you an Indian? I have asked this question earlier but not been replied to. And it is not loaded with malefic intent.

Sit back and enjoy the fact that a decision has been finally made. Phew! :mrgreen:
Last edited by rajanb on 31 Jan 2012 20:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Vipul » 31 Jan 2012 20:42

At last, the long drawn process has ended.
Looks like in addition to getting a good aircraft, GOI wants to ensure that when the chips are down veto power wielding France would support India like it did in 1998.
I hope the final deal negotiated includes france providing nuclear submarine know-how.
Last edited by Vipul on 31 Jan 2012 20:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby sanjeevpunj » 31 Jan 2012 20:43

All you guys at IAF who made this happen, congrats.Vive l'Inde et la France! Victoire pour le Rafale!Victoire pour le IAF! and for Typhoon -Hélas! C'est la vie,Typhon!

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Will » 31 Jan 2012 20:51

Tune in to Headlines Today right now for a discussion on the deal.
Last edited by Will on 31 Jan 2012 21:03, edited 1 time in total.

Victor
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Victor » 31 Jan 2012 21:01

This win flips the Rafale's fortunes around 180 degrees. Those sitting on the fence know that it is now the Typhoon that is in trouble--Brazil, UAE come to mind along with others. May the Rafale ecosphere grow rapidly and may we become a significant part of it.

Hope we get at least 2 squadrons ASAP as loaners if need be in addition to a few trainers.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby SaiK » 31 Jan 2012 21:04

Great news.. finally it happened before many rakshaks kicking the buckets. Hail babudom to some extent!

--

Now, Rafale can start to work on these top 5:-
1. Kaveri++ for future Rafale, LCA, MCA, etc. [core thrust/must must musth..]
2. Retractable re-fueler pod
3. GaN based AESA radar
4. Soft code exchange for porting local, russian and american stores.
5. NBC integration


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