Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions

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member_22516
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_22516 » 13 Mar 2012 12:43

Mr Teddy must be a defence expert when claiming that EF was sent over Lybia to compensate for the "lack of precision" of Rafale. If he was really unpartial he would know that EF bombing was so inappropriate to this battlefield with 1000lbs bombs that the number of EF decreased from 10 to 4.
And his files must be quite old, because everyone knows that while UAE officially rejected Rafala in last November, discussions were never interrupted and newspapers say that a contract is nearly to be signed with Dassault.
And if he wants India to be "clean", the way towards EF is all but clean with allegations of corruption in Austria and moreover in Saudi Arabia.
I am confident that Rafale will remain L1 even after inquiry. And it'll at the end prevent any further allegation.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Lalmohan » 13 Mar 2012 12:57

if the EF consortium members had any brains, they would be pitching for full JV on AMCA instead of harping on about EF now

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Kartik » 14 Mar 2012 01:15

Cross post from Keypubs by Arthuro

Who could work with Dassault ?
Air & Cosmos , march 9

To fulfill the conditions of the MoD in matter of offsets, Dassault Aviation will not only work with large state firms like HALand Bharat Electronics, the champion of Indian radars. The MoD wants also to promote the industrial private sector. Its agency for offsets, the Dofa, has referenced fifty players capable of producing equipment or systems for the Indian Rafale. These include Bharat Heavy Electricals, a diversified group which manufactures flight simulators and avionics, Larsen & Toubro (sensors, radars ...), Samtel (cockpit equipment, navigation), the latter being a partner of Thales for renovation of the Indian Mirage 2000 through a JV. There are also Alpha-ITL Electro Optics and Memory Electronics, which manufactures optronic equipment, or groups not necessarily specialists in matter of defense, like Reliance (who just signed an agreement with Dassault), Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Power. The latter has created a division in combat systems and data link. Without forgetting ECIL, which manufactures joysticks and black boxes, or Precision Electronics, specialist in cabling.
In contrast, the Dofa list has few industrial specialized in aerostructures: there is Aurora Integrated Systems and Infra Polytec. Logically, this area is the prerogative of HAL.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shyamd » 14 Mar 2012 13:08

AKA told IAF chief that MRCA will be scrapped if any foul play is found. Please pray for there to be no corruption.

SS doesn't realise that he is playing on national defence preparedness.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Nihat » 14 Mar 2012 13:50

He realizes very well what could happen but he's letting his hatred for this govt. come in the way of national priorities

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby VishalJ » 14 Mar 2012 15:21

My Latest Photo:
Capitaine Cédric "Rût" Ruet getting back in his office > http://www.airliners.net/photo/2079587/L/

Click here to rate & remark on it Image

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Danell » 15 Mar 2012 03:55

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/hyderabad/rafale-aircraft-shunned-all-countries-708
"In Libya, in the war against Gaddafi, the Rafale had failed in precision bombing and finally the Typhoon was inducted". said MP M.V. Mysoora Reddy


Rafale Air Strike over Lybia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlaZj6cyBS0&feature=youtu.be

Comparative table Rafale vs Typhoon:
Image

Copy/paste from:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost6080677

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shyamd » 15 Mar 2012 04:33

Nihat wrote:He realizes very well what could happen but he's letting his hatred for this govt. come in the way of national priorities

He isn't stupid, he knows what he is doing. He thinks every Indian citizen is dumb (based on my personal interaction with him).

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby shyamd » 15 Mar 2012 14:07

He serves the US interests if you ask me. His decibels go up when the relationship is bad between both countries. I really don't know why he is jeopardising national security, I told him about it. I guess winning elections might be more important. I do admire his ideology of integrating all citizens under the indian/Hindu identity regardless of religion. A nation that is not split and united as one is very important in a national security perspective.

Have a look at his replies to people on twitter. All this is off topic for this thread. We can take this discussion elsewhere.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_20453 » 15 Mar 2012 15:21

I think this deal should be scrapped as well, buy the F-18 IN with all the new upgrades and with a larger enough order we can get uncle to drop the intrusive bs and strings, I am sure unkil will oblige. Would be cheaper to operate the F-18IN through it's life time and it brings along commonality with the LCA MK-2 engine as well. With the upgrades offered for the SH, none can match it in terms of overall multirole ability.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Austin » 15 Mar 2012 15:36

^^^ For that we may have to start MMRCA saga Part-2 will be back in 10 years

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Kailash » 15 Mar 2012 16:03

This deal can't and won't be scrapped. Even if it is, a Tejas Mk2 with an Indian/Israeli or even a Russian AESA radar would do best on timelines and autonomy. Take 4-5 Billion out of MMRCA budget and invest it on the AMCA, sit back and see how fast it gets to the air

Any foreign angle and planted evidences should be investigated and closed(i.e. dismissed) quickly. Cant have a artillery or KNPP types saga with something as time-critical as MMRCA.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Jaybhatt » 15 Mar 2012 20:59

Septimus P is back - and he soars on his flights of fantasy.

What fun, friends. The bane of the Rafale, Septimus P, now wants us to go in for the F-18IN. Bully for him.

Why doesn't he really fantasise ? The IAF opting for the Mustang ?

Exciting days ahead for all of us on this topic. :lol:

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 15 Mar 2012 21:30

Septimus P. wrote:I think this deal should be scrapped as well, buy the F-18 IN with all the new upgrades and with a larger enough order we can get uncle to drop the intrusive bs and strings, I am sure unkil will oblige. Would be cheaper to operate the F-18IN through it's life time and it brings along commonality with the LCA MK-2 engine as well. With the upgrades offered for the SH, none can match it in terms of overall multirole ability.

:rotfl:

.................. 'nuf said................

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby svinayak » 16 Mar 2012 03:27

http://www.rafalemalaysia.com/wp-conten ... 00x155.jpg

Image

Myth was that Rafale would not fare well against f22

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 Mar 2012 05:46

Acharya wrote:http://www.rafalemalaysia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/rafale_68-300x155.jpg

Image

Myth was that Rafale would not fare well against f22


Are you saying that Rafale faring 'well' against the F-22 is now a reality based on a Dassault site?

If so, I have a MiG-35 to sell that singlehandedly can fight off hordes off alien invaders:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlAsSyDAWR8

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2012 09:25

those pics are from some other place...either red flag or such wherein the rafale took those shots. american fanboys claim they were taken during routine formation flight :) bit atleast the 6th pic looks surely like ACM

generally whenever any weakness in raptor is pointed out, the reaction of US fanboys is similar to the T72 fans who claim all manner of excuses why the T72 got thrashed and continues to get thrashed :twisted:

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Danell » 16 Mar 2012 15:02

Old news , these pics were taken in 2009 during the ATLC exercice in Al Dhafra/UAE. The match between F22 and Rafale was related by Air & Cosmos magazine in June 2010. According to french pilots, there were 6 dogfights (wvr) : 5 draws and 1 win for the F22. Us pilots, on their side, said F-22 was undefeated at Al Dhafra. So , two consistent versions. (although other sources claim that one F22 was "shot down" by a Mirage 2000-9)

http://russiadefence.englishboard.net/t ... fale-pilot
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost5016188

Image
http://www.rafalemalaysia.com/rafale-sp ... nics-fso/#

member_20453
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby member_20453 » 16 Mar 2012 19:29

Having the F-22 on the OSF is hardly an accomplishment, even the MKI with OLS can easily spot it. The only aircraft to have offcially have killed the F-22 is a dog fight is the F-18SH. Rafale was turning circles around it.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby arthuro » 16 Mar 2012 20:26

...And the mirage 2000-9 piloted by a french instructor. It's pretty official in france with even a commemorative patch about that event.

The rafale also had the F22 in its gunsight as shown but it was not deemed as a victory here. Anyway with 5 draw and one victory for the F22 we can say that both jet are on par as far as dogfighting is concerned.

http://www.google.fr/imgres?q=mirage+20 ... 9,r:8,s:19

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Hitesh » 16 Mar 2012 20:29

It doesn't matter whether Rafale or F-18SH can kill it. In sufficent numbers, they can kill a Raptor but the whole situation changes when you have 10 or 15 Raptors coming at you. The kill ratio would be so highly favorable to the US side even though they have lost a couple Raptors. It is still worth the cost of a couple lost Raptors when it means 90 bogies versus 2 or 3 Raptors. That does not mean that Raptor is totally invincible. It is just that Raptors will allow USA to dominate the airspace completely that the enemy won't be able to do anything effective about it. It is like the Iraq Air force shooting down a F-15 or F-18 down and screaming success when the reality is that the entire Iraqi Air Force was totally decimated and rendered as non-effective or non-showing. Same thing with Serbia. They shot down a F-117 Nighthawk but they still lost Kosovo.

Reminds me of the Soviet joke: Two Soviet Marshals are sitting in a cafe in Paris. One of them asked the other, "So, who won the air war?"

That joke can be applied to the above situation where two US air generals sits down in a bar in a conquered place and sharing beers . One of them asked the other, "So how many raptors did you lose?" or something to that effect.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2012 21:21

if the rafale is able to hold its own 1:1 in wvr vs the much higher t:w of raptor and no stores drag, thats very creditable imo.

I am not sure how effective the raptor will be without background awacs cover. they also do not interwork with other US fighters in some respects and only among its own kind. people need to find ways to chase or shoot the awacs down using LRAAMs or SAM traps.

all in all, I'd say it remains a somewhat unproven and immature platform till date due to funding problems and time slippages. it might end its service life never having shot anything down in a real war....its lack of strike capability means useful roles in colonial wars in Libya, Iraq and in future Iran are hardly likely. the Teens will continue to shoulder the burden until JSF comes in numbers.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Danell » 16 Mar 2012 21:45

The Cold War against Soviets it was 30 years ago ; in a modern scenario against trained opponents , stealth would not be that efficient ...
In a BVR scenario, a F22 will have to activate its own radar to detect a Rafale using only passive sensors and then could become immediately a target which can be detected by Spectra . And remember a Rafale can send its Micas on any targets detected by its passive sensors (EM/IR/laser sensors, FSO) . And if the fight goes in WVR, the couple Rafale/Mica will be also a formidable opponent for the F22.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Ghatotkacha » 16 Mar 2012 21:54

Just one silly question out of curiosity:

Why does the thread title says "Go Katrina"?
Is Rafael endorsed/recommended by Katrina Kaif or someone named Katrina predicted that Rafael will win?

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby krishnan » 16 Mar 2012 22:12

Same reason why Su-30 MKI is called rambha

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby aniket » 16 Mar 2012 23:00

And the reason for that is ???

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby nachiket » 16 Mar 2012 23:20

Just an affectionate nickname given to the aircraft by BRFites. Both names were coined by Rakesh I think.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Nikhil T » 17 Mar 2012 02:44

aniket wrote:And the reason for that is ???


Read the BRF Dictionary. These birds have some relation (mostly imaginary 8) ) to the ladies they're named after.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Viv S » 17 Mar 2012 05:45

Danell wrote:The Cold War against Soviets it was 30 years ago ; in a modern scenario against trained opponents , stealth would not be that efficient ...


Its been pretty damn efficient in all the exercises its participated in so far.

In a BVR scenario, a F22 will have to activate its own radar to detect a Rafale using only passive sensors and then could become immediately a target which can be detected by Spectra . And remember a Rafale can send its Micas on any targets detected by its passive sensors (EM/IR/laser sensors, FSO) .


Well the F-22 fields the best fighter radar in existence. Any fourth generation aircraft would be detected well in excess of 100nm. And even if the Rafale can detect and track the F-22 emissions (an upgraded AESA... unlikely), that still leaves five other F-22s flying ahead, radar silent, datalinked to the mini-AWACS.

And if the fight goes in WVR, the couple Rafale/Mica will be also a formidable opponent for the F22.


If the fight enters WVR, the F-22 pilot has made a mistake.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby arthuro » 17 Mar 2012 13:16

No one is arguing that the F22 is unmatched in BVR. But does that translate in best ? There are plenty of things a rafale can do that an F22 can't. They are not directly comparable. A big minus for the F22 is that it does not have any optical sensors (apart MWR) which limit its flexibility when used over a battle field not to mention the limited carrying capability.

In the end it all depends on the type/mix of capabilities you are looking for. What the rafale has is better affordability better flexibility & multirole capabilities.

As far as respective radar are concerned the F22 one is certainly more powerfull but no one really knows who's the most advanced. The APG 77 is quite older than several AESA in service and given the pace of technology chances are that APG-77 modules are less advanced than rafale ones.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Rakesh » 17 Mar 2012 17:11

nachiket wrote:Just an affectionate nickname given to the aircraft by BRFites. Both names were coined by Rakesh I think.

Actually I coined names for every combat aircraft that serves in the IAF. But Rambha and Katrina were the only ones that stuck. They just roll off the tongue. Another member gave the name 'Rakhi Sawant' for the F-18 Super Hornet...another well thought of name.

koti
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby koti » 17 Mar 2012 17:20

Fully OT.
Which A/C do you think should get the name Poonam Pandey then... ;)

ashthor
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby ashthor » 17 Mar 2012 18:04

Poonam Pandey for Upgraded Mig29?

Back to hibernation...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby Badar » 17 Mar 2012 19:43

koti wrote:Fully OT.
Which A/C do you think should get the name Poonam Pandey then... ;)


Teja... promises much, but yet to deliver. :P

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby aniket » 17 Mar 2012 22:31

Badar wrote:
koti wrote:Fully OT.
Which A/C do you think should get the name Poonam Pandey then... ;)


Teja... promises much, but yet to deliver. :P

Looks like it already has a nickname "Jahaj-e-Kufr"

koti
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby koti » 17 Mar 2012 23:20

Gripen IMO...
Lot of noise.... No stuff...

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby johnny_m » 18 Mar 2012 02:46


SaiK
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby SaiK » 18 Mar 2012 04:10

for wvr, rafale's t:w@1.7 against raptor's 1.6, whereas Ef is 1.2 something. we can see some comparison between raptor and rafale, but Ef may be a different story.

OLS based locking could be equal on all the platforms.

But, when it comes to TVC, raptor may be the winner, that can cobra on from being chased to chase and kill.

raptor's radar is more advanced, and least LPI. so +++.

raptor's rcs is so low, for mmw seekers. so ++++.
Last edited by SaiK on 18 Mar 2012 04:12, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby PratikDas » 18 Mar 2012 04:11

johnny_m wrote:http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.se/2012/03/ooops-as-expected-indian-fighter-jet.html

Bad News

I don't think so. This is like scraping the bottom of the barrel in the desperate hope for bad news.

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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Postby andy B » 18 Mar 2012 07:44

Op Harmattan FrAF details about Naval Rafale role
http://www.mediafire.com/?mg96ap9p53gdios


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