Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Jun 2012 22:29

It could be my eyes.. I was thinking the fuel tank almost blends into the slats from air-flow point of view. fuel tank drag.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 05 Jun 2012 23:34

It is all fine

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 08 Jun 2012 23:34

^ THE way to shoot Military Aviation ^ Glad atleast some Nation(s) recognise airplane passion.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Jun 2012 10:22

In the first picture...it has a thin wire like thing going from near the cockpit to the tail...wonder what it is...i have never seen it in any other A/C

nevin · Post by **nevin** » 09 Jun 2012 13:37

^^^ that wire is some sort of antenna iirc, used a lot in older planes.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 09 Jun 2012 14:23

krishnan wrote:In the first picture...it has a thin wire like thing going from near the cockpit to the tail...wonder what it is...i have never seen it in any other A/C

Answered it here > http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1293887

member_23461 · Post by **member_23461** » 09 Jun 2012 20:28

Krishnan..
Avro HS 748 of the IAF also have similar ant for HF feq communication.

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 17 Jun 2012 13:46

When will we can see Rafael in IAF colour ? does anybody know ?

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 17 Jun 2012 21:54

kmc_chacko wrote:When will we can see in IAF colour ?

Shouldn't be too different looking than this:

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Jun 2012 22:09

what are those two black boxy rectangular-ish projection on either side of the canard's leading edge?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MlcIJtVqC0I/S ... 5ee732.jpg

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 17 Jun 2012 22:46

Vishal Jolapara wrote:
kmc_chacko wrote:When will we can see in IAF colour ?
Shouldn't be too different looking than this:

I, mean when we are going to negotiate-sign-order-induct her. MoD is taking hell of time.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Jun 2012 04:31

SaiK wrote:what are those two black boxy rectangular-ish projection on either side of the canard's leading edge?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MlcIJtVqC0I/S ... 5ee732.jpg

The following does not sound right, but they are some sort of sensors, as are the green ones below it too:

Flight2 OAT sensor: Left canard root (outside of fuselage)
EM3 OAT sensor: Right canard root (outside of fuselage)

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 18 Jun 2012 05:09

here is a IAF Fairchild Packet which has similar antenna.

I wonder why Kaveri GTRE team did not use the packet to do the high altitude tests using Kaveri as the jet engine pack usually mounted on top of the box car fueslage

The wires on HS748

I traveled first time on this in 1969 May from Vizag to Hyderabad. The cabin was not completely pressurized. I had lot of pain in my ears and it was very noisy (it sounded just like Viscount inside the aircraft)

(newbee pardon for the for intrusion)

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Jun 2012 07:47

Dr. Saraswat states that there is no rethinking on the Rafale as the MRCA and that his flight in the Gripen had no bearing on the MRCA choice.

link

Danell · Post by **Danell** » 18 Jun 2012 15:50

SaiK wrote:what are those two black boxy rectangular-ish projection on either side of the canard's leading edge?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MlcIJtVqC0I/S ... 5ee732.jpg

Active antennas (with gallium arsenide modules) intended for radar jamming
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost5052501
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6298/capturehhn.jpg

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 19 Jun 2012 01:49

Kartik wrote:Dr. Saraswat states that there is no rethinking on the Rafale as the MRCA and that his flight in the Gripen had no bearing on the MRCA choice.

link

So will SAAB charge back the flight cost to Dr. from his monthly salary.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 19 Jun 2012 03:00

keshavchandra wrote:
Kartik wrote:Dr. Saraswat states that there is no rethinking on the Rafale as the MRCA and that his flight in the Gripen had no bearing on the MRCA choice.

link
So will SAAB charge back the flight cost to Dr. from his monthly salary.

not unless they want to nix their chances of cooperating with DRDO in other areas.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 19 Jun 2012 21:47

Best Photo i saw all day:

Didnt know she had a gun, Sexxay

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Jun 2012 17:57

MRCA Update: Def min going slow on Rafale Acquistion as AKA awaits results of enquiry on Life cycle costs and offsets.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 23 Jun 2012 20:19

shyamd wrote:MRCA Update: Def min going slow on Rafale Acquistion as AKA awaits results of enquiry on Life cycle costs and offsets.

With all the scamgates going around, my jury wonders whether the enquiry was triggered by the interests of due digilence or by extraneous considerations.

I hope it is the former.

kmc_chacko · Post by **kmc_chacko** » 27 Jun 2012 08:20

Typhoon, Rafale no match for China’s MMRCA

India will ink the world's single largest defence deal by closing the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract in a couple of months. As these fourth generation fighter jets join the Indian Air Force fleet, China will prepare to launch its fifth generation stealth fighter Chengdu J-20. China is racing ahead towards the planned induction of its indigenous stealth fighter in 2017. The Chengdu J-20, which made its debut in January this year, has already flown two prototypes, within a span of four months. In India's case, however, the two shortlisted contenders — Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale, both only fourth generation — are still undergoing price negotiations. The commercial bids for the US $15 billion deal were opened on 4 November.

Eurofighter Typhoon from the European consortium EADS — comprising Italy, Germany, Spain and UK as partner nations — is a twin-engine, multi-role fighter. A question mark exists on its air-to-ground capability. The UK audit watchdog NAO has criticised the Typhoon for its problems with spares availability, flying hours, immature estimates in funding and inefficient collaborative decision making. It has said that the aircraft will not have full multi-role capability for some years.

To add to this, the Typhoon is still in the process of acquiring air-to-ground attack capability, which was tested unsuccessfully in Libya recently.

French Dassault Aviation's twin-engine Rafale fighter is operational only in the French Navy and Air Force, and recently lost out the US $10 billion deal it had hoped to sign with the United Arab Emirates.

Highly priced, approximately around $80 million a piece, neither Typhoon nor Rafale has a proven radar (the tender requirement is for an AESA [active electronically scanned array]). This came to light during laboratory trials. The manufacturers said that the radar would be integrated once the deal was finalised.

It would take almost four years for the first aircraft to arrive after the deal is inked. So by the time India gets its fourth generation aircraft in 2016, the Chinese will be ready to induct their fifth generation aircraft.

Taking the lead in almost all its indigenous equipment trials, China seems to be well ahead of schedule in its weapons platforms. Their aircraft carrier Varyag entered sea trials in July 2011. The fifth generation stealth fighter J-20's debut this year helped China enter the elite club of fifth generation fighter jet owners. The other members of the club are the United States and Russia. While Russia took a year to make the second flight of its fifth generation stealth fighter PAK-FA, or T-50, with the first flight in January 2010, and the second in 2011, China has taken a lead in its stealth fighter trials.

Having advanced stealth features and the capability of super cruising, the J-20's initial flights have given rise to speculation that the stealth fighter may already be being developed further. Western experts have called the stealth shaping of the J-20 better than the Russian PAK-FA (T-50) and the American F-35 fifth generation fighters. The J-20 will also have an AESA radar, electro-optical sensors, glass cockpit, fly-by-wire systems and bays for weapons of all ranges.

On record, Air Force officers back the Government of India's choice. Former Air Chief F.H. Major told The Sunday Guardian, "The Chinese may be aiming at a fifth generation aircraft, but India, too, has entered into a similar venture with Russia. Since J-20 is not yet inducted, we don't know what capability it will have, whereas the shortlisted MMRCA fighters, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Rafale are already flying in some countries, so we know their capabilities. Except stealth, which is an exclusive fifth generation feature, most four plus and fifth generation fighters have common features, like EW systems, weaponry and super cruise."

Former Western Air Command Chief, retired Air Marshal A.K. Singh said, "Technologically there may not be much of a difference, except stealth. Arms and ammunition put onboard make a difference, which is not known for any of these aircraft. As far as inter-operability, manoeuvrability and sensors go, I don't think there is much of a difference."

Former Air Chief S. Krishnaswamy said, "The AESA radar on both Typhoon and Rafale may have been demonstrated in a laboratory, but by the time they are inducted, these radars will be a part of the fighters as that's the tender requirement. But other avionics and sensors, like SAR, FLIR, IR will be better on the Indian planes, since we have access to western technology, which the Chinese do not have. How much can they research-develop and reverse-engineer?"

About the IAF's FGFA (fifth generation fighter aircraft), former Air Chief P.V. Naik had said that the IAF's requirement was of a twin-seater, with higher level of avionics, swing role, super cruise capability and long range weapons. In December 2010, India and Russia signed a preliminary design contract to jointly develop a FGFA, on the lines of the twin-engine T-50, also called PAK-FA, Perspective Future Aviation Komplex for Frontline Aviation. The fear is that this project will be subject to the huge delays that have dogged joint ventures with Russia

The US Air Force's fifth generation stealth fighter F-22 Raptor is already operational. Its F-35 joint strike fighter is under production and in its trial stage, with US as the lead country and nine others in the consortium.

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/typ ... inas-mmrca

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 04 Jul 2012 01:29

New Tails at the Tiger Meet:

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 04 Jul 2012 03:44

kmc_chacko wrote:Typhoon, Rafale no match for China’s MMRCA

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/typ ... inas-mmrca

This is one of the most ignorant chaddi shivering I have seen in a while. Broke me into disgusting laughter.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 04 Jul 2012 03:54

Curious...what is this Tiger Meet? Tiger Meet aircraft are a popular subject for modeling due to their intricate tail art.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jul 2012 03:55

^what is up the date on that article? Nov 20? which year?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 04 Jul 2012 03:56

shyamd wrote:MRCA Update: Def min going slow on Rafale Acquistion as AKA awaits results of enquiry on Life cycle costs and offsets.

Most likely to wait for new Def Minister incase there is re-shuffle.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 04 Jul 2012 04:05

Update - Mulayam Singh is the New Raksha Mantri from Jul 17 or so.
Mamata will stop supporting the UPA2

More shuffle also planned

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Jul 2012 04:50

that is it!.. time to close MMRCA chapter.

member_23651 · Post by **member_23651** » 04 Jul 2012 05:06

Paramu: Source for the information? Mulayam as defense minister, and with VK Singh gone. I remember redaing an article by a ex India sleuth, who indirectly pointed out yadav was a probable isi agent. If the allegation has any truth to it, then it will be return of dark days for India

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 04 Jul 2012 12:15

Raja Bose wrote:Curious...what is this Tiger Meet? Tiger Meet aircraft are a popular subject for modeling due to their intricate tail art.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Tiger_Association | http://www.natotigers.org/tigermeet/index.php | http://www.natotigers.org/tigerassociation/index.php

rohankumaon · Post by **rohankumaon** » 04 Jul 2012 13:32

Second Indranil! Really funny article with no basis what so ever!

chandrabhan · Post by **chandrabhan** » 04 Jul 2012 13:56

Maloy Krishna Dhar mentioned in his book that Sh Mulayam singh Yadav was in touch with ISI.Actually he mentioned him as an ISI agent. As far as my memory serves me right, He made around Few 100 Crores from the Sukhoi deal that got signed while he was Def minister.

Mulayam is keen on defense or home ministry. In case he gets Home, then Veshti will be moved to Finance. In my interactions with some of the worthies of UPA, few have voiced opinion to scrap some of these defence deals. Antony & MMS are against scrapping any deal specially MRCA.

Will try and catch up with a friend (current UPA min) next weekend and fish more

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 05 Jul 2012 19:05

Photos from Yesterday from what should be the deck of CdG

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jul 2012 08:15

great pics vishal... could some one name all the different missiles on the pylons from these pics?

m mittal · Post by **m mittal** » 06 Jul 2012 08:38

That is some kick a$$ nose gear!

One question (might be a beginner one):

Is the refueling pod not retractable on raffy?

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 06 Jul 2012 09:11

SaiK wrote:great pics vishal... could some one name all the different missiles on the pylons from these pics?

I wholeheartedly endorse this compliment to Vishal.

Vishal : you are a commendable resource for BR. Keep the good work going.

One query : the approximate date of these pictures ? And where ?

The aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle is based in the French naval garrison of Toulon and normally carries out its exercises in the Mediterranean. Of course, it also goes on missions to other oceans / seas.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jul 2012 09:31

we should also seriously think about EMF catobar system for ADS versions/nLCAs.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 06 Jul 2012 09:44

I wish someone skilled in using HDR modes would also capture photographs of similar quality of our LCA Tejas.

Great photos, Vishal. ADA should let you loose around the Tejas, up close and personal.

koti · Post by **koti** » 06 Jul 2012 10:11

SaiK wrote:great pics vishal... could some one name all the different missiles on the pylons from these pics?

Only A-to-A missiles in the pics.
They are MICA-EM and MICA-IR.

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 06 Jul 2012 11:26

great pics vishal! keep it up.