Rafale & MMRCA News and Discussions

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svinayak
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by svinayak »

Vishal Jolapara wrote:Photos from Yesterday from what should be the deck of CdG
Brilliant
World class photos!
member_23657
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by member_23657 »

m mittal wrote:That is some kick a$$ nose gear!

One question (might be a beginner one):

Is the refueling pod not retractable on raffy?
I'm Avinash, a new member on BRF.. A long time follower of BR and an aero-enthusiast. I have learnt a lot from fellow members on this Forum.. Thanks Admins for accepting me into this forum..

No, the refueling pod is not retractable in the current production configuration
Last edited by member_23657 on 06 Jul 2012 18:42, edited 1 time in total.
member_23657
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by member_23657 »

News about the Raffy AESA

http://rafalenews.blogspot.in/2012/07/r ... ed-in.html

A&C, on the 28th of June, announced that the Rafale C137 will be delivered in September.

Initially expected during the summer, DGA will receive the aircraft first so as to conduct some trials at Istres.
Only then, this Rafale will fly toward Mont-de-Marsan where it will start a 18 month period of experimentation before operational service.
The C137 is still a F3-O, but with some F3-O4T equipments, like the new AESA, of course, but also DDM-NG and the brand new OSF-IT.

The original French post in the link below.. Google can translate it though..

http://www.air-cosmos.com/defense/rafal ... arsan.html
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by VishalJ »

Thanks Guys! Image

Now i can say i have truely earned my Rafale badge :wink:
Image
Jaybhatt wrote:One query : the approximate date of these pictures ? And where ?

Hi Jay,

I had just hyperlinked the thumbnails to their High-Res versions, Flickr's Default Photo viewing page will show the EXIF details the photographer is willing to permit.
On the first photo's default photo viewing page for example (top right), you can see the date it was shot on.
PratikDas wrote:I wish someone skilled in using HDR modes would also capture photographs of similar quality of our LCA Tejas.

Great photos, Vishal. ADA should let you loose around the Tejas, up close and personal.
OT but since you mentioned HDR & letting me loose around VayuSena Heavy-Metal.

I was waiting for a Proper Dedicated Ultra-Wide Angle Lens, My first crack at HDR > http://www.flickr.com/photos/in340vj/

The Lens has Cometh, thou Heavy Gear awaiteth the date with thee Rambha & Gaj :mrgreen:

All that remains is someone to connect me, i dont know how to deal with the Laal-Tape.

Cheers - VJ
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by venkat_r »

Great photos - just looking at those pics, want to see the jets on the IAC
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by SaiK »

Vishal: you and Shiv Aroor (or Erroor - lovingly called here in BR). could you please share a story line on that pic you have your big thumb & nailed here? :wink:
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by member_23657 »

Another exciting news about Rafale:

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... iew&id=490

Raytheon Company successfully demonstrated a wireless method of integrating its combat-proven Enhanced Paveway™ II precision-guided bomb on the French Navy RAFALE aircraft. Called WiPAK®, the avionics kit enables integration of Paveway on a variety of aircraft without any modifications to aircraft wiring or changes to the flight and stores management software.

"With WiPAK, warfighters can easily and quickly provide targeting information, employ Paveway and gain all the benefits of a GPS/INS guided smart weapon for a fraction of what it would cost to integrate weapons through traditional means," said Harry Schulte, vice president of Raytheon Missile Systems' Air Warfare Systems. "WiPAK uses wireless connectivity technology similar to what is being used in laptop and tablet computers."

During the test, an Enhanced Paveway II GBU-49 was dropped from the RAFALE aircraft at the Biscarrosse test range in Southwestern France. The weapon system met all requirements during the demonstration and impacted the target well within the requirements.

Image

"Enhanced Paveway II GBU-49 has been in operation with the French Navy for more than six years on their Super Etendard Modernise. EPII was used extensively during Operation Harmattan in Libya," said Schulte. "The success of the SEM program led the French Navy to investigate adding the Enhanced Paveway II to their next generation RAFALE fighter."

WiPAK consists of a small wireless transmitter, located in the aircraft cockpit coupled with a pilot interface, and a small receiver affixed to the Paveway weapon. The WiPAK allows the use of Raytheon's Enhanced Paveway II family of weapons on aircraft previously unable to carry such precision smart weapons. Raytheon's WiPAK is a combat proven system, used operationally on counterinsurgency aircraft. Raytheon is now testing and deploying the system on other similar aircraft as well as fighter jets
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by keshavchandra »

Path clear for Rafale fighter deal: Antony
SOURCE: Hindustan Times
As reported in the Hindustan Times, Reddy had written to Antony stating: “The alleged manipulation of the evaluation process in picking the (Rafale), which resulted in the decision to procure 126 MMRCA has raised serious apprehensions not only across the country but also worldwide. If a proper decision is not taken, the country’s credibility will be at stake.”

Two days later, Antony ordered an inquiry into all the points raised by Reddy.

Replying to a letter written on February 27, 2012 by TDP Rajya Sabha member MV Mysura Reddy alleging manipulation of the MMRCA evaluation process, defence minister AK Antony said: “The issues raised by you were examined by independent monitors who have concluded that the approach and methodology adopted by the Contract Negotiations Committee (CNC) in the evaluation of the commercial proposals thus far, have been reasonable and appropriate and within the terms of the Request for Proposals (RFR) and Defence Procurement Procedure, 2006.”
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Roperia »

^ That's great news! I was a little critical of Raksha Mantri Antony in how he dealt with Gen VKS but I must acknowledge here that the minister albeit slowly and steadily has pushed for deals while sticking to his principles. Very few men do that today!
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by rajanb »

Great news.
But wait. From the same article:
Talking to HT after receiving Antony’s final response on Monday evening in Hyderabad, Reddy said he was not satisfied with the reply. “I will wait for the report after the defence ministry has examined the finalised CNC recommendations as promised by the defence minister,” he said.
I hope we soon hear that the deal is signed.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by member_20453 »

lets discuss the weapons pack:

http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/3 ... _10-32.pdf

Looking at the Dutch SDB deal, the SDB-1 unit cost including training, spares, logistical support etc is a little over 72K per unit. A $1 billion SDB order for Rafale, Jag, LCA would easily allow us to have Local licenced manufacture with an average cost of around 50K, we could have an order or around 20000 SDB, a good number of low cost ground pounders.

looking at our very own 556 CBU-97/105 SFW deal for $258 million , we can easily use another $1 billion order also with local licenced manufacture, we could have another 2000 SFW, which is by far the most useful bomb we could have in our inventory, it will obliterate the enemy's ground forces into bits. These can easily go on the LCA, Jag an Raffy as well. These CBUs i think can aslo be fitted with Textron's CLAW or clean area weapons which seems to be a next gen cluster munition for against vehicles, air defences and combatants

http://www.textrondefense.com/assets/pd ... asheet.pdf



These 3 weapons types are ideal enough and can be employed against most the enemy's heavy defence and far more capable than the AASM can ever hope to be at a relatively low cost.

I believe a mini Nirbhay should be developed in parallel, Max range around 500 km for low cost anti-ship and land attack possibilties. Mini brahmos for HVTs. The home made anti radar missile should also come by quickly.

Astra-mk2 shuld become the primary A2A missile together with the Python-5.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Kartik »

This article on the Raven ES-05A radar of the Gripen NG gives some details that most likely explain why the IAF considered the Gripen's radar to be a risky proposition (something that many found hard to understand back then) whereas similar concerns were not raised regarding the Captor-E radar that was proposed for the Typhoon..
Captor-E and Raven employ different methods of antenna repositioning, however. The Captor radar’s antenna is mounted on two angled swashplates that rotate in combination or opposition to reposition the antenna. This arrangement avoids any rotation of the antenna, so the polarity of the embedded IFF (identification friend or foe) antennas is maintained.

Advanced IFF

By contrast, the Raven employs an angled antenna mounted on what is, in effect, a rotating drum. This offers significant advantages, but has also required the solving of some technological hurdles. One of them is the development of a sophisticated 360-degree joint, derived from the oil industry that allows the passage of radio frequency signal, power and coolant through it as the drum mounting rotates.

Because the antenna rotates, it cannot mount IFF aerials, as they would change polarity with the rotation. To overcome this issue Selex Galileo has devised the SIT426 active e-scan Mode 5/S IFF system, which it claims is the most advanced in the world. It is the first IFF to use conformal e-scan arrays, three of which are mounted around the fixed portion of the nose behind the rotating antenna.

This arrangement poses its own issues, such as the requirement to sensor-fuse data from the radar and IFF to ensure accurate alignment between the two.
In the Captor-E the radar and IFF share the same antenna, so do not require data fusion. In the Gripen installation, however, the fact that the IFF is separate allows it to work in close conjunction with other sensors, such as infrared search-and-track and electronic support measures.
...
link
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by SaiK »

rajanb wrote:Great news.
But wait. From the same article:
Talking to HT after receiving Antony’s final response on Monday evening in Hyderabad, Reddy said he was not satisfied with the reply. “I will wait for the report after the defence ministry has examined the finalised CNC recommendations as promised by the defence minister,” he said.
I hope we soon hear that the deal is signed.
Also think about this from the corruption angle > babu dom!

this Reddy babu questioning the deal itself could be a setup by con-angrez inside jobers.

of course that is a wild guess.. but hey, i don't have to say about this.

just a cautious note.
svinayak
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by svinayak »

SaiK wrote:
Also think about this from the corruption angle > babu dom!

this Reddy babu questioning the deal itself could be a setup by con-angrez inside jobers.

of course that is a wild guess.. but hey, i don't have to say about this.

just a cautious note.
It is the Uncle lobby which is on this .
The money to question national security decision should be cut off
This should be also inside closed doors
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by kmc_chacko »

keshavchandra wrote:Path clear for Rafale fighter deal: Antony
SOURCE: Hindustan Times
As reported in the Hindustan Times, Reddy had written to Antony stating: “The alleged manipulation of the evaluation process in picking the (Rafale), which resulted in the decision to procure 126 MMRCA has raised serious apprehensions not only across the country but also worldwide. If a proper decision is not taken, the country’s credibility will be at stake.”

Two days later, Antony ordered an inquiry into all the points raised by Reddy.

Replying to a letter written on February 27, 2012 by TDP Rajya Sabha member MV Mysura Reddy alleging manipulation of the MMRCA evaluation process, defence minister AK Antony said: “The issues raised by you were examined by independent monitors who have concluded that the approach and methodology adopted by the Contract Negotiations Committee (CNC) in the evaluation of the commercial proposals thus far, have been reasonable and appropriate and within the terms of the Request for Proposals (RFR) and Defence Procurement Procedure, 2006.”
^^ great news
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by kmc_chacko »

rajanb wrote:Great news.
But wait. From the same article:
Talking to HT after receiving Antony’s final response on Monday evening in Hyderabad, Reddy said he was not satisfied with the reply. “I will wait for the report after the defence ministry has examined the finalised CNC recommendations as promised by the defence minister,” he said.
I hope we soon hear that the deal is signed.
MoD should give him detailed report on MRCA procurement process along with copy of Home Ministers order to CBI for inquiring the reason's, he had stalled a project which is most important for national security.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by pragnya »

In fact, French Safran’s Snecma group, which manufactures the M 88-2 engine for the Rafale aircraft, has also nominated one of its best engineers to help HAL manufacture the engine at a plant proposed to be set up in Bangalore. According to HAL sources, he has already visited the HAL headquarters to discuss the transfer of technology and manufacturing schedule as mandated by the RfP conditions.

Official sources say that the transfer of technology (ToT) has to be time bound both for the Indian and French partners, something on which the IAF’s commanders are particularly keen.
Samtel has already been selected for supplying display panels for IAF’s SU 30 MKI aircraft, and possibly on the Rafales also.
India’s Aircraft Acquisitions
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by nits »

Do we have any Raffy Pic in IAF Colors... :?:
rajanb
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by rajanb »

Pragnya: Thanks for the good news article.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Singha »

I like your thought process Septimus sir. massive volume and universal usage is the way to go with PGMs, as overall a.c number is not high and target sets very big.
we must immediately target work on a 250lb GLONASS guided SDB type weapon and a GLONASS 1000lb desi JDAM to pave way for volume production in 5 yrs.
Sudarshan must be produced in big nos.

desi or bideshi, PGMs are not cheap by any means, but not having in ample nos is like going to a prom party Nanga.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by member_20453 »

Thanks Singha, like the way you think as well,

Sadly, I still haven't seen any Sudharshan trials from other aircraft in our inventory, we need 100K of these kits asap, ideal on HSLD bombs on 250, 500 and 1000 kg bombs, but we also must pack these with CL-20, thats a must, it's silly to have developed this deadliest of convential payload and not use it in numbers, CL-20 should be standard on all heavy warheads. however, the CL-20 should be packed into a casing that has thermite sandwiched in between so as to burn off any residue of the CL-20 to provent the enemy from being able to do reverse engineering of the CL-20 through spectral analysis. thermite also adds for the burning effect which also adds demoralizes the enemy.

it's silly to waste time on expensive cruise missile imports, times and money quickly has to go into Nirbhay (1000 km for MKI) Mini Nirbhay (500 km for Rafale, Mirage, Jag, LCA, Mig-29/K, Mig-27ML, MKI), Nuke capable mach 5 Mini brahmos (150 to 200 km for LCA, Rafale, Jag), Astra mk-2 and MK-3 ramjet version for all aircraft, SDB or SDB type weapons for UAVS and all aircraft, CBU-97/105 SFW to wipe out the enemy's heavy ground assets.

So much work has to be done, they need to pick up the pace.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by SaiK »

CL-20 is not new the world. If enemy can decipher the tech via spectral analysis, then they are well capable of developing it as well. Besides, we should consider the CL20 explosives and possible areas of using them as solid fuel in missile systems. Astra-120 should get it, and can become deadly one on the planet.

kmc_chacko, acharya ji, we should engage CAG now better than later when things are too late. We have to get a clearance from CAG before placing order, to avoid a bofors situation.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by pragnya »

cpfh of rafale - $16500. gripen lowest. more here -

Image

Gripen operational cost lowest of all western fighters: Jane’s
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Singha »

I am not with what level of honesty those figures are.

but its also clear the gripen is also the least capable of the above lot, and sweden the weakest aerospace power among them, a fact proven in the indian trials also.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by SaiK »

That cpfh clearly says "it thinks" that the operational cost of F16.. besides how many gripens they have taken into account? what kind of ops/flying hours?

plus:
The report says the figures were based on data sourced from the respective operating militaries and governments, disclosed international fighter competition cost figures (Rafale, F-18 E / F, Gripen), manufacturer-stated figures (F-35, Rafale, F-18 E / F, Gripen) and IHS Jane’s estimates for all aircraft.
one would require at least weighted geometric mean data to find the average cost if they have such inconsistent source of information.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by pragnya »

it is 'impossible' to derive CPFH for any fighter because it depends on many factors which are variable and never constant.

for example even if one takes a particular fighter, CPFH will change from one batch to the other due to the age/usage/quality of maintainence staff/weather/AB usage in flight/training/number of fighters etc.. among others. so what 'notionally' one can arrive at, will be only an approximation - a fact admitted by the report.

it would not be surprising if for the same fighter the CPFH for both IAF and USAF will be higher because the training hours are higher.

also to be noted is history of battles too which add up cost. gripen has never seen battle or at best only some limited flying during libya crisis otherwise most data obtained would be peacetime data where as the american fighters have been in the thick of battles giving a fairer idea of the CPFH (do note even war is variable, one never knows how many sorties will be flown hence more associated wear and tear etc..) which naturally would be higher.

it is only natural single engined non stealth fighters will have a smaller CPFH and here too if i were to guess Gripen vs LCA, i think LCA may turn out a bit higher for the simple reason i quoted above - IAF flogs fighters!!

so i think one has to factor in these variables accordingly. however it gives a basic datapoint which is useful.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by kmc_chacko »

VishalJ
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by VishalJ »

SaiK wrote:Vishal: you and Shiv Aroor (or Erroor - lovingly called here in BR). could you please share a story line on that pic you have your big thumb & nailed here? :wink:
Hi & sorry for the delay, the photo is from the day of Shiv's Rafale Sortie.

The reason i shot that was to authenticate my FRANCE patch against those who'd say i bought it for Image50 from outside CST or Churchgate Station :D

Image Saala his sexaat Rafale patch was already taken, I think Shiv or his News Channel Cameraman udaved it.
Should've asked Capitaine Ruet for one when i was running into him everyday Image
Last edited by VishalJ on 16 Jul 2012 17:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by svinayak »

People have figured out something is wrong here
Anonymous said...
The concerned MP says that he is still not satisfied by the reply.How can one MP hold to ransom the defense and security of India? There should be a probe as to which lobby the MP is acting.It is improbable as to how the MP will have expertise on such a complex and technical matter conducted in secrecy by the Ministry and IAF without the support of vested interests.


Anonymous said...
Mysoora Reddy was kicked out of Congress and he then joined TDP. Now he's been kicked out of TDP after he sensed the wind was changing direction in AP politics and joined YSRC. What a rat !
The MoD should stop wasting time and energy by not paying attention to squeaking rats like him - period.
Get on with the contract negotiations so that the country can have the equipment it needs to protect our country !
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by shukla »

India at Least 9 Months From Inking Rafale Deal
Defense News
Negotiations to build Rafale fighter jets for the Indian Air Force won’t be complete for at least nine months, following news that the state-owned company tapped to build the jets in India has missed a deadline for filing its license production evaluation report. Sources in the Indian Defence Ministry said Defence Minister A.K. Antony had directed the bureaucrats to finalize the contract to build Rafales within the next three months, but it cannot be done because state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) has yet to submit the license production plan, delaying negotiations by another six months.

India on Jan. 31 declared the Dassault Rafale the preferred bidder over the Eurofighter Typhoon, setting the French company up for a deal involving 126 aircraft and prompting soul-searching among the Eurofighter nations. The Ministry of Defence last week also asked HAL to focus on building airframes, engines, and system and weapons integration of Rafale aircraft rather than on meeting its portion of the $5.5 billion offset requirements as part of the deal. Under the new directive, HAL has been asked to submit the detailed license production plan within the next four weeks, the sources said. HAL officials privately acknowledge they are late in submitting the plan for completing financial and manufacturing tasks.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by SaiK »

what does reliance industries know about building 4++ advanced fighter jets?

not sure, if they would be initially only funding the production setup.. [hopefully not screw drivers]

my concern is that France might get to play super duper ToTing role, when none in desh is ready to accept the tech.
HAL perhaps needs to lend some weight around Reliance, or Reliance might offer double pay packet for HAL/ADA employees to join them.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Katare »

You need access to an airport from the manufacturing plant, no one but HAL has infrastructure to build complete aeroplanes.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by SaiK »

HAL could offer facilities and resources for the private sector as consultants for such projects. That way MoD, GoI and the forces get a secured place with as much regulated setup as possible.

This gives our private industries get experience, and slowly could look at subsystems and components. Jumping ahead into building advanced fighter jets is anyway looks silly. Reliance definitely does not have the required men and materials and the infrastructure.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by VishalJ »

Image

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::::::::::::::::::::: Dedication Pass! ::::::: >>>


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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Kartik »

Supporters of private industry in aerospace in India will be happy to see this news item

link to article
New Delhi, July 22
Indian business magnate Mukesh Ambani’s dream to manufacture aircraft has started taking shape.

Ambani’s new aerospace company, a complete diversification from current business of energy and materials, has finally taken off. His vision is to make India a global hub of aerospace manufacturing.

Ambani’s Rs76-billion Reliance Industries Limited (RIL) has formally incorporated a new firm to enter
aerospace and defence ventures. The new company, Reliance Aerospace Technologies (P) Limited, has been registered with appropriate authorities, including the Registrar of Companies (RoC).

As per the memorandum of articles, the objective is “to design, develop, manufacture, equipment and components, including airframe, engines, radars, avionics and accessories for military and civilian aircraft, helicopters, unmanned airborne vehicles and aerostats.”

The company will also undertake research and produce new aerospace technologies, materials, components and equipment and test and carry out their certification.” The company will also partner with global majors to bring in sophisticated civil and military aerospace technologies into the country. Research and development is part of its charter. Sources said huge funds were being earmarked for R&D purposes. Dr Vivek Lall (43), possibly the country’s most respected aerospace expert today, is heading Mukesh Ambani’s new ventures. Lall was honoured by Cambridge as one of the 2,000 outstanding scientists. Lall earlier worked with the NASA and defence majors Raytheon and Boeing.

Although the newly created company has not identified the hub for its activities, it already has a major job in hand — waiting for a final go-ahead. It relates to manufacturing specific parts of the French Rafale fighter jet that was selected by the Defence Ministry six months ago.

On January 31, 2012, Dassault Aviation’s Rafale emerged winner in the “dogfight”, beating the European consortium’s Eurofighter Typhoon in over $11-billion Indian Air Force deal for the 4.5 generation 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA). The Tribune in an exclusive report on January 11, 2011, had reported that Eurofighter and Rafale had been shortlisted for the final decision “but a political decision was awaited”.

As per a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Dassault Aviation, the RIL’s new aerospace company will assist in manufacturing major parts of Rafale in India. The MoU was signed a week after the government announced Rafale as the winner in the MMRCA fray.

According to Dassault Aviation, the firm has entered into an MoU with the RIL “for pursuing strategic opportunities of collaboration in the area of complex manufacturing and support in India”. Dassault manufactures Rafale combat jets and Falcon business jets, and the proposed venture may be making a foray into both sectors.

Sources said the two partners had informed the Defence Ministry. Any such venture has to be cleared by the government and several procedural and security clearances would be required in due course.

As the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is the lead integrator for the MMRCA project, the two companies will have to involve it also.

Industry experts feel the RIL may emerge as the biggest Indian player in various defence projects like combat aircraft, military systems and homeland security in near future. Mukesh Ambani’s new ventures of defence, aerospace solutions and homeland security may overtake his existing businesses in years to come.
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Kartik »

And in other news, BEL has moved to establish a JV with Thales to develop (?) and produce radars for the Indian defence market.

link
India’s state-run Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) has moved to establish a joint venture (JV) with French firm Thales to develop and produce radars for the Indian defence market. The JV has been under consideration for several years, although renewed impetus is likely to have been provided by India’s selection earlier in 2012 of the Dassault Rafale for its Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) programme
tejas
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by tejas »

^^^ I hope this is the death knell for HAL. Lets see if Reliance can do what decades of govt monopolies could not. I bet they can but they will need govt support just like in the West. The difference between govt supporting private industry in a competitive environment vs monoply DPSUs is the former will hopefully lead India to self sufficiency.The latter will be seeking ToT from foreign private companies forever.
Kakkaji
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by Kakkaji »

Kartik wrote:Supporters of private industry in aerospace in India will be happy to see this news item

link to article
New Delhi, July 22
Indian business magnate Mukesh Ambani’s dream to manufacture aircraft has started taking shape.

Industry experts feel the RIL may emerge as the biggest Indian player in various defence projects like combat aircraft, military systems and homeland security in near future. Mukesh Ambani’s new ventures of defence, aerospace solutions and homeland security may overtake his existing businesses in years to come.
AFAIK Reliance is not the most quality-conscious company in India, but they can certainly match HAL in quality.

Their project implementation skills are legendary, so they will definitely get their plants up and running in quick time, and will deliver the products on time.

But, IMHO, the biggest benefit of Reliance getting into the aerospace business is their lobbying skills. There is absolutely no one with a stronger lobbying network with the GOI than Reliance. They can sweep aside the agents of foreign arms dealers and eat them for breakfast. There will be minimal delays by the MOD, CCS, MOF etc. in approving and funding Reliance-backed projects. That in itself solves the biggest problem in Indian military acquisitions today - the delays by the various arms of the GOI in decision-making.

There are downsides too. With the GOI in its pocket, Reliance can very well push low-quality products at a high price. But that's not worse than what we have today with the Natasha lobbies. With Reliance at least the jobs will be created in India.

Overall, a good move IMHO.
tejas
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by tejas »

I was thinking the same thing about Reliance's lobbying "skills." Somehow i think it will be much more difficult for an Indian company to get away with shoddy quality that would easily pass by a foreign company. Especially if they have other domestic private competitors who want a piece of the same pie.
vic
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Re: Raffy wins - Go Katrina!

Post by vic »

Reliance may limit itself to composites and engineering plastics. But if they do get into aircraft manufacture then they will bring their formidable financial and persuasion powers to the biz. I think that we should groom:-

L&T for turbine engines, weapon launchers
TATA for helicopters, radars, weapon sights, night vision devices, missiles
Reliance for fixed wing aircrafts
Mahindra for FICV
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