Indian Army : News and Discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 28 Mar 2012 05:15

Philip wrote:...

3.The COAS too has proven himself to be from his track record always "slow on the draw".He allowed his DOB issue to drag on/was comfortable with it until he realised that he would not get his full term and then sprung the issue on the nation through the media.


This is atrocious mis-representation of facts. Do you even check what is written on earlier posts in this thread?

For the nth time:
1) General VKS got all his promotions with 1951 as his DOB.
2) He was told in 2006 that he "needs" to accept his DOB as 1950 and that his DOB will be fixed in a month because his refusal is holding up the promotion of many other officers.

Question for you is if your superior promises you that your DOB will be fixed in a month do you take him at face value or not?

General VKS did the right thing by believing JJ and after nothing was done he tried multiple times to get it fixed. Just check the records.

What would it take for you to get a bit more informed?

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Pranav » 28 Mar 2012 06:49

IMHO the defamation case by Tejinder is nothing to worry about.

The law says that any statement in public interest made in good faith cannot be considered defamation. The public interest in clarifying the true situation regarding media accusations against the Chief cannot be denied.

What is left is "good faith". Army will have to show that they had reasonable grounds to believe that the information put out in the press release was true. Which will not be too difficult to show, imho.

anjan
BRFite
Posts: 448
Joined: 08 Jan 2010 02:42

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby anjan » 28 Mar 2012 06:56

Philip wrote:3.The COAS too has proven himself to be from his track record always "slow on the draw".He allowed his DOB issue to drag on/was comfortable with it until he realised that he would not get his full term and then sprung the issue on the nation through the media.As long as his cpmfort level was obtained,he also did nothing! He was the perfect chief for the DM,both two of a kind.His deliberate time-selected actions are suspect ,as they are conveniently orchestrated only when it suited his personal interests best,and not because of the interests of the service he led! Contrast this with the behaviour of a former chief,who told me when he went to Russia to inspect a most important weapon system being offered to us.He was just shown the object/system from the outside without being allowed a full internal inspection.He immediately told his hosts that unless he was given a full briefing on the weapon system and its capabilities and saw every detail of it for himself, he would return to India post haste.His hosts then gave him the full monty,etc.! This chief post retirement,refused every gubernatorial or diplomatic offer, and had to wait for years to sell his valuable property below market value because he wanted the payment only by cheque.
Again and again in every interview the man says he offered to resign immediately as long as his correct DoB is accepted. Have you not read or listened to any of the articles/interviews that have been previously posted? I'm not sure what possible personal gain he hopes to gain from that? Unless this is some long devious plan to sell more memoirs post retirement. There are some legitimate things to be asked about this Chief but this DoB issue is a non-starter.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 28 Mar 2012 06:58

Also some one involved in the Adarsh scam cant have good fame to lose.

kunalverma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 86
Joined: 07 Sep 2011 22:01

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby kunalverma » 28 Mar 2012 07:04

From what I know of the case, let me point out a few things:
VKS not only went straight to the RM and told him what had happened (Tejinder's bribe), he also said to AKA that if 'he was standing in the way of the existing system, he was willing to quit'. AKA admits in parliament he slapped his hand on his forehead etc. and then goes on to say I told VKS to take action. He says VKS did not want to pursue the matter... should have been the end of the matter! This leads to the entire Congress party chorusing that VKS should have filed a FIR, called in the Military Police and maybe even organized a firing squad at Vijay Chowk!
This is all crap!
Have just got the Indian Express with the screaming quote of AKA: "Told Army Chief to act on bribe, he didn't."
The only person who could have acted on this at the time was AKA. He has the power to initiate a CBI enquiry (something he did without a moments notice) when the goo hit the roof two days ago. VKS could not have done anything as the officer concerned was a retired officer who does not come under the Army Act anymore. No Army chief can arrest anybody through the military police either. If indeed AKA had told VKS to pursue the matter himself, it would have been obvious to VKS that the RM was stalling and had no intention of acting at the time. VKS knows how hard it is to nail people even you have tangible proof; take the Sukhna land scam where the accused have done their best to make VKS the accused.
Now let's come to the interesting part... the timing of the revelation in the press!
For all of AKA's protestations about this and that, senior officers in the MoD were selectively leaking documents in an attempt to keep sniping at VKS so he would have to keep his head down until May 31 2012 when they would force him to take compulsory retirement. AKA is fully aware of the fact that the SC order which came out on the 15th of Feb has put the onus back on the RM to give a decision on the DoB issue. COAS has also made it clear in his OUTLOOK interview that both the MS and the AG branch are still waiting for a 'legal order' to change the DoB, something which the MoD knows it cannot do. As a result, though the new man's name and the date has been announced, no retirement order has or can be issued. AKA knows this as well as anybody else.
Three weeks ago, the boot was squarely on the other foot as stories of the Army chief bugging the RM's office hit the headlines quoting anonymous sources. VKS was in Hyderabad with the RRM, Pallam Raju, to release my book, the Northeast Trilogy on the 5th when this happened, and in the press conference that followed the function around the books, VKS said that the matter was all fiction. The chorus of accusations were so intense that by that evening, Army HQ had to give out a formal statement that the man behind the story was Lt General Tejinder Singh who had earlier tried to bribe the Chief etc.
The point here is that the very same Lt General whose actions had been brought to AKA's notice, was now brought out of the closet by the so called dirty-tricks department, and let loose on VKS.
This move has backfired on them now. In his interview with the Hindu, the Chief has simply expanded on what was the Army's POV on the bugging scam. Exactly the same thing has been said; on 5 March the ADGPI said the same thing but he did not put out the exact figure.
Finally, as was pointed out on TV last night by Maroof as well, AKA in Parliament actually misrepresented facts the last time he stood up to make a statement on the DoB issue. The house was not functioning for a while after that and AKA got away without a privilege motion. Yesterday, the Hon'ble Minister has again sought to deflect the matter onto the COAS by saying he told him to take action. It's laughable, really. It's akin to a cop who has been called to a house after a burglary giving the complainant a magnifying glass and telling him to go catch the thief himself!
Come on Mr Antony! If you are indeed an honest man, stand up and be counted! By putting your head in the sand and wringing your hands and saying I cannot do anything, I have orders from above for everything, it does not absolve you!

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 28 Mar 2012 07:14

So kunalji, who is behind this Ravi Rishi guy? An NRI cant pull that kind of a scam. Dharma Teja had JLN backing him.

KrishnaK
BRFite
Posts: 949
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 23:00

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby KrishnaK » 28 Mar 2012 07:22

When a RM tells his CoAS 'take action as laughable as file an FIR', it means, stick your neck out first. The worst part is, once VK Singh is forced to retire, he's truly on his own. No office or position to help him fend the dogs.

EDITED: Read later that Antony's advice was to make a written complaint.
Last edited by KrishnaK on 28 Mar 2012 08:01, edited 1 time in total.


tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby tejas » 28 Mar 2012 07:28

The statement by the former DGMO that the Arjun was a "current technology tank" and the IA required a "future technology" tank while simultaneously buying the T-90 sight unseen now makes perfect sense( mind you the Russian army itself no longer wishes to buy the T-90). Can there be any reasonable doubt in the mind of the gentle reader as to the real reason for that purchase now?

Paul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3621
Joined: 25 Jun 1999 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Paul » 28 Mar 2012 07:31

Re: Ramana....

If MMS is JLN and AKA is VK Menon, then it certainly gladdens my heart that VK Singh is learning from Thimayya's mistakes.

member_20036
BRFite
Posts: 140
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby member_20036 » 28 Mar 2012 07:37

Bengal price glare on army’s truck orders
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, March 27:
The row over the alleged attempt to bribe army chief Gen. V.K. Singh is being played out against a backdrop in which a Bengal-based Indo-Russian joint venture is one of the competitors against the Czech-origin Tatra trucks that are the mainstay of the armed forces’ heavy vehicle requirement.
Sources in the army told The Telegraph that Ural India Ltd, which has an assembly plant in Haldia, had offered to sell a category of all-terrainmulti-wheeled vehicles to the army for Rs 40 lakh each while the army was buying the same category of Tatra trucks assembled by defence public sector Bharat Earth Movers Ltd (BEML) for Rs 1 crore each — a difference of Rs 60 lakh between the offered price and the price at which each truck was purchased till 2010.
The army chief had said in his interview that he was urged by the alleged briber to approve a file that would allow the purchase of 600 Tatra vehicles — a transaction involving at least Rs 600 crore.
Since the alleged bribery attempt, V.K. Singh had ordered that not a single Tatra brand truck should be bought by the army. There are about 7,000 Tatras with the army, bought over nearly 25 years between 1986 and 2010.
The Tatra trucks are assembled by BEML under licence from Tatra Sipox UK Limited, the joint secretary (land systems) in the defence ministry had said on Monday. Defence ministry sources said on Tuesday that “the decision on whether or not to buy Tatra trucks is entirely within the ambit of the army”.
But BEML is a defence public sector unit under the department of defence production of the ministry ofdefence. Tatra makes money throughlicence fees that BEML has to pay to Tatra Sipox UK Ltd with whom the agreement has been renewed since 1997.
The original licence agreement with Tatra was routed through Omnipol Foreign Trade Corporation of the erstwhile Czechoslovakia.
The major stakeholder in Tatra and in Tatra Sipox UK Ltd is the Vectra Group based in the UK and owned by non-resident Indian Ravi Rishi.
In 2003, Tatra was acquired by the Connecticut-based Terex Corp. In 2006, Terex sold its 80.5 per cent holding to Blue River (later renamed Tatra Holding). Blue River has four partners: Vectra Ltd, Sam Eyde, KBC Private Equity, and Meadowhill and Ronald Adams
.

In India, Vectra has several subsidiaries. It has an assembly plant at Hosur in Tamil Nadu, Kamaz Vectra, in which Russian firm Kamaz holds 51 per cent stakes and Vectra 49 per cent. In December 2010, the director-general of Kamaz, Sergey Kogozin, signed an agreement with V.R.S. Natarajan, the chairman-cum-managing director of BEML, for 4x4 vehicles to be supplied to the armed forces. It was estimated the armed forces need 6,000 such vehicles every year.

The Vectra Group sells or is seeking to sell heavy-duty automobiles and helicopters not only to the defence ministry but also to the home ministry. The home ministry has asked for additional helicopters to beused in counter-Maoist operations because the Indian Air Force cannot supply them in enough numbers.

The Vectra Group has also represented Eurocopter in India. In December 2007, defence minister A.K. Antony cancelled and ordered a re-bidding for a competition to purchase 197 helicopters for the Indian Army because of a senior officer’s suspected connection with Global Vectra Helicorp, a Vectra Group company.
{Who was the senior officer in this helicopter issue in 2007?}

About three months ago, after the army told the defence ministry that it would not buy Tatra vehicles because BEML had not established facilities in India for the repair and refurbishment of the vehicles as spares were in short supply, it changed the General Staff Quality Requirements (GSQRs) — the requirements for each vehicle.

After that, the defence ministry issued a global tender to introduce competition into the category of heavy vehicles to transport missiles and cannons — practically the entire requirement for mobile artillery. Ural India and, possibly, Ashok Leyland, the Tatas and Mahindra & Mahindra are among the competitors for the order.

Ural India is a joint venture between Calcutta-based company Motijug Agencies and Uralaz of Russia, according to the company’s website. Like Tatra, Ural also makes heavy-duty tippers, dumpers and all-terrain vehicles. The company says that the ministries of defence, coal and steel are among its customers.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120328/j ... 304681.jsp

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Mar 2012 07:47

Kanson wrote:So, you see the finger pointing done by St. Antony against VKS in this case is baseless as you acknowledge the job done by VKS as a great one. :?:


Probably. See, last time who stopped the 197 helio deal involving Vectra? St Antony, right? In the light, I will give him a benefit of doubt and try to understand what he is doing.

peter wrote:No. Are you even following the discussions or just arguing for the sake of arguing? ......


Even you are arguing for argument sake. Even you haven't actually read what I have been trying to say. You are selectively quoting me as it suits you and discarded everything that is not suiting you. Just like you are doing it to AKA.

I don't know if you will be not reading my next few sentences because it will not suit you, but, to recap what I have been saying: VKS has done a good in bringing out this as he goes out. However, I am not ready to assign blame on VKS or AKA. I argued that both are to blame, to folks why were out and saying AKA is to blame based on few quotes from here and there. I asked them if they were experts in rules and if VKS and AKA had followed the right path? I remember folks were out on AKA for VKS DoB issue and it was written that there was some "army - civilian" divide. The argument was wrong then. VKS and AKS did not have a tiff over it. it was a procedural clash, with Army complaining and MS branch defending. AKA could have gone only by procedure. VKS emerged hurt, but not because of AKA.

Joseph Chacko if you still do not see Anthony's fault I don't think you ever will. Question is why?


So, what do you think? I have been bribed? What is your theory about me? You seem to be a moral authority.

I personally don't know AKA and I have no intention of protecting anyone from so called my state and my religion. Anyone who rips my state (India) cannot be of my religion (patriotism).

I would definitely back up honest men like VKS, AKA, Pallam Raju etc, during their ups and downs.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Mar 2012 07:54

dnivas wrote:BG, so why did Anthony start a CBI enquiry now. He should send a email to VKS and reiterated him to file a FIR.

What is the difference between the time when VKS first reportted to Defence minister and now.


Last I read yesterday night was that CBI is asking is for a FIR from VKS. That's what AKA asked VKS to do. Now what difference it has made from if he had started before or now. CBI still needs FIR.

AKA is not denying the incident. He could have said many other reasons. he did not.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Mar 2012 08:13

Prasan wrote:Bengal price glare on army’s truck orders
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, March 27:

Since the alleged bribery attempt, V.K. Singh had ordered that not a single Tatra brand truck should be bought by the army.

In December 2007, defence minister A.K. Antony cancelled and ordered a re-bidding for a competition to purchase 197 helicopters for the Indian Army because of a senior officer’s suspected connection with Global Vectra Helicorp, a Vectra Groupcompany.

About three months ago, after the army told the defence ministry that itwould not buy Tatra vehicles becauseBEML had not established facilities in India for the repair and refurbishment of the vehicles as spares were in short supply, it changed the General Staff Quality Requirements (GSQRs) — the requirements for each vehicle.
After that, the defence ministry issued a global tender to introduce competition into the category of heavy vehicles to transport missiles and cannons — practically the entire requirement for mobile artillery. Ural India and, possibly, Ashok Leyland, the Tatas and Mahindra & Mahindra are among the competitors for the order.
Ural India is a joint venture between Calcutta-based company Motijug Agencies and Uralaz of Russia, according to the company’s website. Like Tatra, Ural also makes heavy-duty tippers, dumpers and all-terrain vehicles. The company says that the ministries of defence, coal and steel are among its customers.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120328/j ... 304681.jsp


1) No trucks purchased after VKS said no. The case is then offer of a bribe. (there is a need to inquiry for pre 2010.)

2) Army told def min that it needs a new tender. MoD floats it.

So there is no actual sales and MoD has not forced a sale. I think, the facts are now narrowing down to something where we can think about the rational of this case.

krisna
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5829
Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby krisna » 28 Mar 2012 08:15

I personally don't know AKA and I have no intention of protecting anyone from so called my state and my religion. Anyone who rips my state (India) cannot be of my religion (patriotism).

I would definitely back up honest men like VKS, AKA, Pallam Raju etc, during their ups and downs.


+100. I believe you CJ.
regarding RM (and MMS)
Somehow I believe at present time that RM could have done a better job.
AKA may be incorruptible. Same as MMS. But the actions belie that halo effect.
I can change my mind when I am convinced about RM actions.
For now he is "incorruptibly corrupt" so is MMS.
Reasons are easy- inaction when whole scale loot of the nation is going on under their authority.

Why this inaction--
1) lose of their position and prestige ?
2) cowards- unable to take on their masters?
3) what use is honesty and being scrupulous in public life if loot continues unabated under their watchful eyes?
4) haven't these 2 individuals ripped apart the nation in allowing the loot ?

It is said to be pure white not even a microscopic dust should fall on it.
Now these 2 gladiators of honesty have the biggest scams of India going on--- can they still claim to be pure white. :cry:
Politicians are known to be cunning and crafty. It is difficult to survive long if one is not so. when one considers the longetivity of AKA, mind boggles as to his inactions being an "incorruptible" politician to the now "incorruptibly corrupt" politician. How can he neglect VKS revelations of scam and DOB controversy? He cannot hide behind procedural stuff. If he knows VKS was wronged he should have got to the bottom of it.

I will change my mind if these 2 "good men" make efforts in putting scoundrels in their homes(prisons).

VKS is more honest and trying to save his nation as he has relentlessly tried within his powers to curb the loot, not caring for his own benefits/power or pelf.
Remember the odds are extremely risky of losing his own reputation and getting besmirched by paid media and public. This has happened more or less.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Pranav » 28 Mar 2012 08:48

BEML Boss has a secret Champion - http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/MAH-MU ... 89780.html

Mumbai: VRS Natarajan, chairman and managing director of BEML Ltd, allegedly routes the money earned as commission from the procurement of Tatra truck components through Champion Textiles Limited, a public limited company incorporated by his family in 1995.

Though Champion made a minuscule profit of Rs 1.5 lakh after a decade and a half of existence, the company has bought large tracts of land in Coimbatore, Natarajan's hometown, and also acquired a company with assets worth crores. Sources have a copy of the sale deeds for several plots bought by Champion.

Sources confirm that Natarajan and his family members promoted Champion Textiles Limited, with him as shareholder and other relatives as directors and shareholders.

As per the annual returns of Champion for the year 2010, filed with the registrar of companies (ROC), Shanti, Natarajan's wife, and their daughters Madhumitha and Radha Rekha are directors of the company. They hold most of the company's shares, worth Rs 4,89,980 out of the total share capital of Rs5 lakh.

According to the ROC, till May 2010, the company's registered office was in Chennai. On visiting the address, however, it was found the flat had been rented out for the past three years.

Curiously, the registered office of the company was shifted to Defence Colony in Bangalore in 2010, to the BEML chairman's official quarters, though the code of conduct for the senior management of BEML prohibits the use of official residences for personal gain.

Following protests from BEML employees, the registered office was shifted to another place in Bangalore, which is owned by Natarajan. On visiting this address, however, it was found that the multi-storey building had been rented out to a multinational company and there was no signboard of Champion Textiles.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21231
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 28 Mar 2012 09:20

The Hindu has details of the main alleged agent for Tatra,who allegedly picked it up cheap after the fall of the USSR.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 251869.ece

How trucks drove the Army bribe row
Praveen Swami

Bribe conversation tape with CBI now as probe begins Defence Ministry's poser
I was offered a bribe of Rs. 14 crore, says Army Chief

Did Czech firm Tatra sell substandard products — and then try to make payoffs to ensure it could keep doing so?

In 1999, millions of Indians watched as batteries of Indian multi-barrel rocket launchers unleashed fearsome barrages against Pakistani positions on the Kargil heights — clearing the way for soldiers who had come under withering fire as they sought to claw their way up the mountains.

In an explosive interview to The Hindu published on Monday, Chief of the Army Staff General V.K. Singh said the Tatra trucks that carried those rockets were substandard and sold at exorbitant prices. He added that there was no proper facility where they could be serviced.

Had audiences watched the trucks carefully, they would have noticed that the driver sat on the left — an extraordinary testament to how much a vehicle that began to be produced in India in 1986 still relies on imported equipment.

Lieutenant-General (retd.) Tejinder Singh, a former intelligence officer who is alleged to have offered the Army chief a Rs. 14 crore bribe, is claimed to have been trying to make sure they kept being bought.
The politics of trucks

Tatra's fortunes in India have been tied to Ravi Rishi, a graduate of the Indian Institute of Technology in New Delhi who went on to own the London-headquartered consortium Vectra — a multinational conglomerate with interests in everything from private aviation to luxury apartments. Mr. Rishi's crown jewel, though, is his controlling interest in Tatra — a Czech firm he picked up cheap, amid the collapse of eastern Europe's arms industry after the cold war.

Founded in 1850, Tatra supplies trucks to at least 23 militaries, among them the United States, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. In 1973, Israel was so impressed by the Tatra trucks captured from its Arab adversaries that it began importing them, using Rumanian president Nicolai Ceausescu's cash-starved regime as a conduit.

In 1986, when India began a great wave of military modernisation, Mr. Rishi steered Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi's government towards picking Tatra. Public sector giant BEML was given a licence to manufacture the trucks. In the years since, almost 7,000 have been built.

Mr. Rishi declined to be interviewed for this article. The Ministry of Defence, however, said on Monday it had not received a single complaint about the truck, a very different account to that given by Gen. Singh.
The sceptical General

Weeks after taking office, Gen. V.K. Singh stalled an order for 788 new Tatra trucks approved by his predecessor, arguing the vehicle was overpriced and underperformed. Earlier, as General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Eastern Army Command, General Singh had considered the competing claims of Ural, a Russian-Indian joint venture, and had been impressed.

In 2009, highly placed military sources said Gen. Singh had informally used two Ural trucks to ferry supplies to Sikkim. His staff reported the trucks were better-powered than their Tatra competitors.

Led by Kolkata-based businessman J.K. Saraf, Ural is a joint venture between Russian firm Uralaz and Mr. Saraf's Motijug industries, which manufactures heavy vehicles at Haldia, in West Bengal. Ural did not respond to e-mail seeking its comments.

Gen. Singh, as Chief of the Army Staff, wanted to give Ural and other firms a chance to bid for the Army's truck contracts. His decision to open up bidding is what, the General's aides claim, led to the effort to bribe him. Even though Tatra did not sell directly to the Army, they argue, it still sold high-priced components to BEML — and thus had an interest in ensuring the sales continued.

Hard questions

There's little doubt Tatra components seem overpriced: a jack, for example, costs Rs. 30,000. There are claims that Indian-made four-wheel drive platforms cost Rs. 18 lakh or less, to the Tatra's Rs. 80 lakh — and that the BEML-made Tatra sells for substantially more than it is available off the shelf abroad.

Like so much to do with military procurement, though, it is unclear if the high prices have to do with corruption — or India's complex defence procurement policies.

For one, indigenisation of the vehicle has gone slowly. Last year, BEML's director V.R.S. Natarajan said the Tatra was now 60 per cent Indian-made — up from 21 per cent in 2002. BEML finally began making its own Tatra engines in-house. The truck ought, however, to have been wholly Indian-made by now, leading to allegations that BEML is wilfully importing form Tatra at high cost.

“It's easy,” said a military engineer linked with BEML, disagreeing, “to point fingers, but these are complex financial questions. BEML, for example, imports left-hand drive axles, because setting up new ones for right-hand drive would cost hundreds of crores. There's no guarantee the Army will order enough trucks for that to make sense.”

High pricing has dogged almost all Indian efforts to indigenise complex foreign-made products, because of the enormous costs of setting up production lines to manufacture low volumes.

The Ministry of Defence has long argued these investments are worthwhile despite their costs, since they help India build up long-term industrial capacities with civilian technology spin-offs.

India's next order for Army trucks — some 1,500, to be tested rigorously and purchased through a competitive process — will establish whether it is possible to get better trucks for less money. It is unlikely, though, to address the larger problems that dog the acquisition process.



PS:I still maintain that Gen. VKS was wrong to have relied only upon an "oral" acknowledgement from his superior that his DOB issue would be seen to after he signed on that his DOB was actually 1950 ("in the interests of the force",as he said).He should've minuted the conversation somewhere or written to his chief .The same "oral" conversation he had with his Def.Min. is now the subject of raging controversy! AKA now says that he got nothing in writing and Gen.VKS was unwilling to do so-proceed against the alleged bribe-giver.When he took over as chief he also had the opportunity to set matters right straight away,but his inaction until much later was probably a lapse of judgement on his part.There also appears to be some element of naivety in the manner in which he trusted his superiors and his Def.Min.

However,we are now told that there are actually tapes that he has to prove his allegation about the alleged bribe (which I think no one is in doubt that it was made).One wishes he also had tapes of conversations relating to his DOB issue.A pity.

How on earth did the IA aeons ago agree to LHD Tatra trucks in the first place? One can understand first tranches,but when the same are being built at home...?

In the ultimate analysis,the entire affair exposes the indifference that the security of the nation is being subjected to by the ruling coalition and its PM.The media now has it that there is a 'top secret" letter that Gen.VKS wrote to the PM too about the shocking crisis in the IA regarding its preparedness for war,lack of ammo,artillery,etc.,etc.Surely in times of crisis,as we saw during KargiL,the "gordian knot" was cut through by emergency acquisition measures.With the Chinese asserting its ownership of Ar.Pr. and squatting in POK too,the abdication of looking after the needs of the armed forces and in particular the IA is a clear case of "dereliction of duty" by the govt. and the buck must stop at the doors of the Def. Min and PM.
Last edited by Philip on 28 Mar 2012 10:02, edited 2 times in total.

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 28 Mar 2012 09:37

chackojoseph wrote:
peter wrote:No. Are you even following the discussions or just arguing for the sake of arguing? ......


I remember folks were out on AKA for VKS DoB issue and it was written that there was some "army - civilian" divide. The argument was wrong then. VKS and AKS did not have a tiff over it. it was a procedural clash, with Army complaining and MS branch defending. AKA could have gone only by procedure. VKS emerged hurt, but not because of AKA.

No. It it totally AKA's fault. The buck stops with him. If he really wanted he could have easily solved the DOB issue by making sure that the date which got VKS all his promotions (1951) till the rank of Lt General is the correct one. Instead AKA did nothing and VKS was forced to move the supreme court.
chackojoseph wrote:
Joseph Chacko if you still do not see Anthony's fault I don't think you ever will. Question is why?


So, what do you think? I have been bribed? What is your theory about me? You seem to be a moral authority.


My theory is that you are operating with some bias. You don't see any faults of Anthony. While you find wrong faults in VKS. Till yesterday you were claiming that VKS allowed the loot of your state for 2 years by allowing Tatras to be sold to the Indian army. A little research would have showed you that you were wrong.

See for example this quote of yours:
Last I read yesterday night was that CBI is asking is for a FIR from VKS. That's what AKA asked VKS to do. Now what difference it has made from if he had started before or now. CBI still needs FIR.

AKA is not denying the incident. He could have said many other reasons. he did not.


AKA asked VKS to file an FIR and without it he would not trust what VKS said? Is that what you are implying? If so then are you suggesting Anthony did not believe what VKS said unless he gave it to him in writing? If you were the defence minister would you not believe the integrity of your defence chiefs? Would you want them to give you in writing because you don't trust them?

Even now VKS has not given anything in writing to Anthony so why order a CBI inquiry?

You are not able to see that there is duplicity in Anthony's behavior. People with integrity are consistent.

tejas
BRFite
Posts: 768
Joined: 31 Mar 2008 04:47

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby tejas » 28 Mar 2012 09:45

Why would the Saint not pursue this allegation when he is so anal about holding up other purchases badly needed by the armed forces on the flimsiest of allegations? Perhaps Lt. General Singh has friends higher up than the Saint?

sanjchopra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 57
Joined: 08 Jul 2006 12:36

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby sanjchopra » 28 Mar 2012 09:53

^

Poignant dialogue by AK from movie "rang de basanti" - (translation) In a defence deal here, alogngwith the groom entire marriage party feasts :evil:

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Mar 2012 09:55

krisna wrote:+100. I believe you CJ.
regarding RM (and MMS)
Somehow I believe at present time that RM could have done a better job.
AKA may be incorruptible. Same as MMS. But the actions belie that halo effect.
I can change my mind when I am convinced about RM actions.
For now he is "incorruptibly corrupt" so is MMS.
Reasons are easy- inaction when whole scale loot of the nation is going on under their authority.

Why this inaction--
1) lose of their position and prestige ?
2) cowards- unable to take on their masters?
3) what use is honesty and being scrupulous in public life if loot continues unabated under their watchful eyes?
4) haven't these 2 individuals ripped apart the nation in allowing the loot ?

It is said to be pure white not even a microscopic dust should fall on it.
Now these 2 gladiators of honesty have the biggest scams of India going on--- can they still claim to be pure white. :cry:
Politicians are known to be cunning and crafty. It is difficult to survive long if one is not so. when one considers the longetivity of AKA, mind boggles as to his inactions being an "incorruptible" politician to the now "incorruptibly corrupt" politician. How can he neglect VKS revelations of scam and DOB controversy? He cannot hide behind procedural stuff. If he knows VKS was wronged he should have got to the bottom of it.

I will change my mind if these 2 "good men" make efforts in putting scoundrels in their homes(prisons).

VKS is more honest and trying to save his nation as he has relentlessly tried within his powers to curb the loot, not caring for his own benefits/power or pelf.
Remember the odds are extremely risky of losing his own reputation and getting besmirched by paid media and public. This has happened more or less.


Thanks krisna.

See let me tell you my view.

The talks which transpired between VKS and TS was reported to AKA. AKA asks VKS to give in writing as otherwise there will be no proof (there is no hint that the tape was in the knowledge of AKA or VKS told him).

VKS says that he doesn't want to pursue the case. The trucks are not purchased.

Unlike the 197 helio tender, which had a alleged involvement and was in procedure, TATRA sales were canceled, which has arisen to the offering of bribe.

Hypothetically, AKA starts an investigation, say an internal affair. They question TS and he denies. VKS has already said he will not pursue the case. Then the case dies. There could be other combinations, which is not know yet and hence we cannot decide based on it.

I held the view that both are at mistake. Let me quote to you the exact sentiments reflect by Arun jaitley in rajya Sabhay. He speaks a lot of sense, in my opinion.

He said "Minister has said and understandably so that he is very particular that all these cases should be inquired into, I think it is for him, as the Head of the Ministry, to make an assessment between a substantive charge or a baseless charge. If it appears to him that the charge is not frivolous and merits an inquiry, even when it is orally brought to his notice – anonymous or otherwise, I am not getting into that controversy – then the same has to be, at leas, primarily inquired into.

If a subject matter comes into the knowledge of the Army Chief and the hon. Minister that somebody, maybe, a serving General, is doing this, is this an issue on which both of them should have put blinkers on their eyes, not recorded it, not inquire into it at all, and allowed that General to complete his term?"

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: He had retired.

SHRI ARUN JAITLEY: Yes; I stand corrected. Sir, if we, on a charge, which is prima facie not frivolous, decide to put blinkers on our eyes and say, “let it be a closed chapter”, then, we are learning to live with corruption. This is something which ought not to have happened. At the same time, Mr.Minister, we are completely with you if you want to cleanse up. But, please, maintain a judicious balance, and that judicious balance is that defence procurement, modernization and defence preparedness should not suffer.


1) He refused to get into the debate if oral or written communication is necessary. Unfortunately, some folks here have already decided that AKA needed to act on it and he is guilty.

2) Defence procurement should not be effected : very important point. After all Tatra is not being bought at first place. TS is already retired.

My contentions are two, because of which I hold them both guilty.

a) written or not, AKA should have made a case and asked his junior to comply.
b) Post of Army Chief was attempted to be bribed and VKS left the alleged accused scot free, there by creating an atmosphere where in future anyone can drop in and offer a bribe to the Army chief. he refused the orders of his senior and there by refusing to bring in the material witness to the case.

While these are my observations, I still stand by the two honest people for the omission, as they have done a larger good for the nation.

Peter,

I have put my points above. The DoB issue, while it is disappointing, I had right from the beginning told that it won't stand a chance and I had spoken about the possible date confusions generally faced by candidates pre filling of such forms , those days. Even SC has been ruling for long time on correction of DoB and it maintained its ruling. If you don't understand what it is, then please so some reading if AKA could have arbitrarily done such a thing.

wilson_th
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 53
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 14:16

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby wilson_th » 28 Mar 2012 10:01

any complaint should be given in writing right? . Every employee in any Govt or Pvt establishment require applications, complaints in writing. Even for a leave application you need to put them down on a paper or email , and forward to your managers. Here AKA was simply asking VKS to give the complaint in writing, as would any Managers in Pvt or Govt will ask. I stand by both of them in routing out correction.

nelson
BRFite
Posts: 988
Joined: 02 Mar 2008 21:10

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 28 Mar 2012 10:23

chackojoseph wrote:...
See let me tell you my view.

The talks which transpired between VKS and TS was reported to AKA. AKA asks VKS to give in writing as otherwise there will be no proof (there is no hint that the tape was in the knowledge of AKA or VKS told him).

VKS says that he doesn't want to pursue the case. The trucks are not purchased.


The above would be fine and complete in all respects, if the talk transpired between two equals in power and responsibility. then you can claim both are equally responsible for the omission.

However in this case the Defence Minister is higher in hierarchy, he is responsible for the security of the nation to the PM and the country's Parliament. Whereas Army Chief is only responsible to the Defence Minister. So, they are not equals in any respect.

(a) When VKS said that he doesn't want to pursue the case and AKA did nothing further, it implies that he has accepted that the case need not be pursued and the onus of this decision falls on AKA solely on the basis of his position in the hierarchy.

(b) On the contrary, had VKS not said to AKA that he did not want to pursue the case and still not acted on it, the fault would lie with VKS for omission. AKA would still share the blame for not following it up.

(c) Also, had AKA said that the case must be pursued irrespective of what VKS felt/wanted and if VKS had still not acted on it, the fault would lie with VKS for omission again. Again, AKA would still share the blame for not following it up.

Apparently, even by AKA's own admission in Parliament and from what we can make out from VKS's interview to the News channel and the daily, it is most certain that what happened was that listed at (a) above. So, AKA takes the cake and gets to eat it too.

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 28 Mar 2012 10:24

chackojoseph wrote:
The talks which transpired between VKS and TS was reported to AKA. AKA asks VKS to give in writing as otherwise there will be no proof (there is no hint that the tape was in the knowledge of AKA or VKS told him).

VKS says that he doesn't want to pursue the case. The trucks are not purchased.



You are still missing the point. Where is the written complaint from General VKS now? If Anthony can order a CBI probe without a written complaint NOW why not back then?

As I said earlier it is inconsistent behavior by Anthony.

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 28 Mar 2012 10:27

wilson_th wrote:any complaint should be given in writing right?

No. If your defence chief tells the defence minister that he was offered a bribe and even names the person who offered the bribe an honest defence minster should immediately order a probe whether his defence chief wants it or not.

chackojoseph
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4297
Joined: 01 Mar 2010 22:42
Location: From Frontier India
Contact:

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 28 Mar 2012 10:28

peter wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:
The talks which transpired between VKS and TS was reported to AKA. AKA asks VKS to give in writing as otherwise there will be no proof (there is no hint that the tape was in the knowledge of AKA or VKS told him).

VKS says that he doesn't want to pursue the case. The trucks are not purchased.



You are still missing the point. Where is the written complaint from General VKS now? If Anthony can order a CBI probe without a written complaint NOW why not back then?

As I said earlier it is inconsistent behavior by Anthony.


Please read, I have already addressed that. Its tiring when you don't read and selectively point out.

chackojoseph wrote:
dnivas wrote:BG, so why did Anthony start a CBI enquiry now. He should send a email to VKS and reiterated him to file a FIR.

What is the difference between the time when VKS first reportted to Defence minister and now.


Last I read yesterday night was that CBI is asking is for a FIR from VKS. That's what AKA asked VKS to do. Now what difference it has made from if he had started before or now. CBI still needs FIR.

AKA is not denying the incident. He could have said many other reasons. he did not.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21231
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 28 Mar 2012 10:31

Fundamentally,is is the trust or lack of trust between the DM and service chiefs that matter,which is why we are in the sorry state we are today.One must compare previous relationships when diff. Def Mins were at the helm,like Babu Jagjivan Ram,Arun Singh,Uncle George,etc., and also the relationship and access the chiefs had with their respective PMs.Sam and Mrs.G for example.In recent times vested interests seem to be wagging the MOD's tail.Chiefs have little direct access to the PM. Gen.VKS has to write a secret letter to him on the eqpt. crisis when it should've been a simple task of meeting the PM and briefing him personally on the urgency of the situ. The gap between the service chiefs and access to the PM and DM appears to be widening by the day.This empowers babudom and naturally the lack of trust develops.

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Sanku » 28 Mar 2012 10:33

Folks, dont be partisan, dont support a person just because he/she is from your corner of the country.

Here AKA did nothing, he may have had pressing reasons for doing nothing, but the fact remains he did nothing.

He did nothing to get Gen VKS his due in the age issue
He did nothing to take actions on Tatra issue till the news broke in the media.

He may be a good man, and even supportive of Gen VKS in private (as it appears from all sources) -- but he has to stand up and be counted. Cant be risk averse all the time -- if he does so, what is the difference between AKA and Sonia/Man mohan/Raja etc?

Roperia
BRFite
Posts: 778
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Roperia » 28 Mar 2012 10:36

Let us try and think what kind of conversation could have taken place between COAS and RM. Let us start from the assumption that both of them have spoken the truth.

The context - Supposedly a retired army officer has tried to bribe the COAS. The COAS says in his interview that he was shocked to hear that and told the gentlemen to get out before things turn ugly (this is what he told during an interview to a family TV, the actual words and tone are probably different :twisted: ).

Now we know the following things about COAS and RM's meeting -

1. COAS reported to RM that he has been offered bribe.
2. The RM shook his head in disbelief.
3. Media reports say that COAS offered to walk out if he is not fit for the position.
4. RM claims that COAS told him that he doesn't want to pursue this matter

The question arises - why would both or either of them (the only parties in know of the case) not pursue the matter? The only possible scenarios are the following -

Scenario # 1 - Gen VKS doesn't want to pursue the matter. Why would he do that? He is the one who has reported it. Even if he doesn't want to pursue it, why would RM not pursue it?

Scenario # 2 - RM doesn't want to pursue the matter I would not cast aspersions or attach motives since I've no reason to doubt the integrity of RM. May be both of them agreed that this would not be provable in a court of law and anyway we wouldn't be signing the contract for the next lot of 600 trucks. Even so, I'm reluctant to believe that RM didn't pursue the matter just because he thought the damage has been avoided and evidence is insufficient.

Scenario # 3 - Both of them didn't want to pursue the matter

IMO, it was #3, they both realized that this goes above their political weight and its best not to enrage the party/lobby whose patronage the bribe giver enjoys.

Now, a valid question arises - why did the COAS chose to mention this now?

Gen GD Bakshi said it on the #LRC debate on NDTV, that once the dirty tricks department activated the the former DG DIA to fabricate the story about the COAS spying on RM, all bets were off. It seems to me that COAS is trying to get back at the former DG DIA (he carefully avoids maligning the RM in his interview).

There is a key piece missing, we need to find the lobby backing DG DIA.
Last edited by Roperia on 28 Mar 2012 10:50, edited 3 times in total.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 28 Mar 2012 10:39

Has to be only 2G that AKA would be afraid of.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 28 Mar 2012 10:40

Jamie Boscardin wrote:Before this episode broke out, I never had even heard about this channel "chauthiduniya".
VKS is upto something very very concrete, its a big kudos to him for whatever he has in his mind and should be in the larger interest of the nation.
Why I say so, is coz if he had anything dirty on him, he would have gone the Kejriwal, Kiran Bedi, Tehelka and so many other whistle blowers ill-faith's way.

In the video, its the host who asks the question to VKS, as a charge, "You were offered a bribe and you failed to take action against the person offering you the bribe", this is the charge against you
- So, how come the host/anchor knows about an incident, which as per follow-on reports took place in a closed door in Army HQ between COAS VKS & the alleged bribe giver?
- Now, while answering to this question, VKS says that "he informed this incident to Raksha Mantri" after hearing which our cool dude AKS replies that these are the kind of people we should keep away from us". This also can be a way of VKS saying that AKS did not initiate any action (might be he was also trying to say, that AKS did not allow him to go ahead and take sumo moto action).

Also, COAS VKS, mentions that the alleged person retired from the IA few days/months back. Gen Tejinder retired 2 yrs back..so does that mean that he is mentioning someone else?

Gosh, VKS has provided a big big HOLE to initiate the cleansing process, and he has made it ample clear, he isn't going down without a fight and he is battle ready!!

I must admit I'm getting goose bumps!!


Jamie, please go through the thread from 7th page onwards. TS is mentioned several times starting with an article quoted from Sunday Guardian. VKS made sure with this interview that TS is burned and incoming Army Chief can not be approached by TS even if TS is squeaky clean. The alleged Army officers name was mentioned in Army Press Release after bugging issue in RM office surfaced. The said officer had met COAS after retirement sometime in 2010. COAS promptly informed about the offer, no actual bribe was given. Hence criminality is to be ascertained only after preliminary inquiry which RM should have done. Now he says he asked vks to do the job. Either it is a lie or his desire to keep matter under carpet.
Last edited by chaanakya on 28 Mar 2012 11:03, edited 1 time in total.

Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Pranav » 28 Mar 2012 10:44

No ammunition, air defence obsolete: Army Chief to PM - http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/no ... 66586.html

New Delhi: Amidst the raging row over bribery allegations, Army Chief General VK Singh is reported to have written a letter to the Prime Minister, stating the country’s security might be at risk owing to the fact that tanks are running out of ammunition, air defence is going obsolete and the infantry is operating without critical weapons.


nelson
BRFite
Posts: 988
Joined: 02 Mar 2008 21:10

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 28 Mar 2012 10:58

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investig ... nder-singh

This link was posted some time ago and discussed albeit from a different angle. The author talks of alleged links between Mr Karthi P Chidambaram, Lt Gen retd Tejinder Singh and arms/technology purchase lobbies in various Ministries. He also talks of CBI inaction in such related cases. If this is true, then the CBI handling of the case is probably going to boomerang on VKS.

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3853
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby suryag » 28 Mar 2012 11:00

better leak the audio tape

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 28 Mar 2012 11:06

peter wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:
The talks which transpired between VKS and TS was reported to AKA. AKA asks VKS to give in writing as otherwise there will be no proof (there is no hint that the tape was in the knowledge of AKA or VKS told him).

VKS says that he doesn't want to pursue the case. The trucks are not purchased.



You are still missing the point. Where is the written complaint from General VKS now? If Anthony can order a CBI probe without a written complaint NOW why not back then?

As I said earlier it is inconsistent behavior by Anthony.


chackojoseph wrote:Please read, I have already addressed that. Its tiring when you don't read and selectively point out.

You keep saying you have addressed it. How?

VKS did not NEED to file an FIR before Anthony could order an enquiry. Furthermore if Anthony had ordered a CBI probe back then, than it would not have fizzled out.

You have made up your mind that Anthony did no wrong and anything to the contrary is opaque to you.

Try answering this: Why an inquiry now without a formal written complaint from General VKS? What changed? Is the complaint to a newspaper Hindu more important then a personal complaint to Anthony?

You are just running away from answering uncomfortable questions.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chaanakya » 28 Mar 2012 11:08


http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true
Report by Gargi Parsai
Hours after Mr. Antony's testimony before Parliament, sources in the CBI said they received an audiotape purported to contain the conversation during which the bribe was offered, recorded inside General V.K. Singh's office. The CBI was inquiring into the authenticity of the tape, and would soon begin collecting relevant documents, the sources said.

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 28 Mar 2012 11:08

nelson wrote:http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investigation/who-is-lt-gen-tejinder-singh

This link was posted some time ago and discussed albeit from a different angle. The author talks of alleged links between Mr Karthi P Chidambaram, Lt Gen retd Tejinder Singh and arms/technology purchase lobbies in various Ministries. He also talks of CBI inaction in such related cases. If this is true, then the CBI handling of the case is probably going to boomerang on VKS.


No. It would rather confirm why Anthony did not act back then when he should have. It is a shame that a defence minister is not concerned that his chief of staff is offered a 14 crore bribe. What honesty are we talking about here?
Last edited by peter on 28 Mar 2012 11:34, edited 1 time in total.

Roperia
BRFite
Posts: 778
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Roperia » 28 Mar 2012 11:25

nelson wrote:http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investigation/who-is-lt-gen-tejinder-singh

This link was posted some time ago and discussed albeit from a different angle. The author talks of alleged links between Mr Karthi P Chidambaram, Lt Gen retd Tejinder Singh and arms/technology purchase lobbies in various Ministries. He also talks of CBI inaction in such related cases. If this is true, then the CBI handling of the case is probably going to boomerang on VKS.


Thanks for sharing that! I don't know much about Chidambram's son but I think a brief introduction of Haryanvi CM might be pertinent to put things in perspective.

Chief Minister Hooda (whose relative Major Hooda is referred in that article) was believed to have been hand-picked by Congress leadership (read ...G) after the victory of the INC in Haryana's 2005 elections . The prime contender was Bhajan Lal (a former two times CM and a political heavy weight vis-a-vis Hooda), but Bhajan Lal was perceived to be potentially-independent of the central leadership. I've seen our CM Hooda's rallies, he would deliver his entire speech looking at Mrs. Sonia Gandhi (standing at a slant angle to the podium), not once looking at the crowd present in the rally and starting every sentence with "Madam G, ...".

(Bhajan Lal later officially went on to form a new party).

PS - If there is a Haryanvi on this forum, I want to make it clear that I myself supported Mr. Hooda in the elections, so I assure you no political motives in this comment.

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6617
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 28 Mar 2012 11:31

An honest man without the courage to take a stand for truth is useless.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 40 guests