Indian Army : News and Discussion

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ramana
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Mar 2012 21:43

I guess Gen VKS needs to read BRF!

All those upgrades are paper projects and dont get implemented. That is his lament if not a complaint. The govt ministers know all that.

Its like telling Caeser that his Tribunes are skimming the legions funds and the barbarians are at the gates.

Waht do the tribunes work for Caeser and funnel the loot upwards.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 30 Mar 2012 21:45

chackojoseph wrote:
ramana wrote:He should ask the Judge Advocate General or order Court of Inquiry on the serving officer.
Going to civliians will lead to disspation like above.


Even Jaswant Singh, the BJP MP was hard on Antony saying that Serving Army officers should not be CBI investigated.


Serving army officers are CBI investigated routinely, as a matter of fact. Particularly in relation to offences purportedly committed while on deputation and in cases of corruption where many civilian agencies are involved. The Army or any other defence service does not have wherewithal to complete decent investigation.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby rajrang » 30 Mar 2012 21:45

ramana wrote:I guess Gen VKS needs to read BRF!


He will be pleased with the powerful support BRF has for him.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 30 Mar 2012 21:47

rajrang wrote:
nelson wrote:So you got up in the middle of a nightmare and came straight on BRF to post what you can recall from that?


Yes it could be a nightmare!


-DELETED-
Last edited by nelson on 30 Mar 2012 22:00, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Mar 2012 21:51

nelson, was that needed? Its just flaming and leads to no good.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 30 Mar 2012 21:52

nelson wrote:Serving army officers are CBI investigated routinely, as a matter of fact. Particularly in relation to offences purportedly committed while on deputation and in cases of corruption where many civilian agencies are involved. The Army or any other defence service does not have wherewithal to complete decent investigation.


Thanks.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby rajrang » 30 Mar 2012 21:53

nelson wrote:So you got up in the middle of a nightmare and came straight on BRF to post what you can recall from that?


rajrang wrote:Yes it could be a nightmare!


nelson wrote:For you and the ilk of Gen retd JJSingh, yes.



And also those who do not want India to go awry with questionable judgments.
And also those who love corruption.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Sanku » 30 Mar 2012 22:01

Sanjay wrote: I believe that the army pretty much has control of the "revenue" budget without too much interference.


May I ask, what facts are those beliefs based on?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 30 Mar 2012 22:22

Sanku wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:i think this issue might bring down the government


Which one?

================================

Meanwhile, BEML head says Chief has no role in acquisition, he should shut up and let the loot continue


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/beml- ... an/930375/

Speaking to The Indian Express from Bangalore, BEML (formerly Bharat Earth Movers Limited) chairman V R S Natarajan said that the Army Chief had no role to play in the continuing supplies of the vehicles and so there was no question of him holding up the acquisition.

I don’t know what he was talking about since he only had a consultative role to play at the time of preparation of the budget,’’ Natarajan said.



So much so for Army having a huge role to play in the acquisition of system, even the minor oversight the chief has is being publicly rubbished by a DPSU head.

Kudos to the chief that he could use the very limited minor leverage he had to highlight the loot.

Meanwhile I hope this guy remembers his statement when it comes to fixing the blame

Only we deal with the defence forces and the MoD on behalf of Tatra, nobody else.’’


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Thank you Saar, BEML and MoD are to blame, you have given the IA a clean chit.


Ok Sanku, this is a fact and not fight

Tatra truck honcho hits out at Army chief for delaying 1500 truck deal

One of the partners of a company that manufactures and sells Tatra trucks to the Indian Army, has criticised Chief of Army Staff, General V.K.Singh, for delaying a deal for 1,500 trucks over alleged procurement related doubts.

Anyway moving out

According to Rishi, Tatra trucks are manufactured by a government-owned company. Each truck costs between Rs.80 lakh and Rs.88 lakh. (and not a crore)

He felt that General Singh may have blocked the Tatra deal for his own personal interests.
"I believe he has ulterior motives, I cannot believe the Indian Armed Forces does things like this. When he was in Kolkata, I believe he was a great friend of the Ural trucks. In fact, he tried Ural trucks with the Indian Army even without even having permission, and not following procedures. So, he was doing this also, he was doing this at the behest of the Ural trucks," Rishi told the television channel Times Now.


let us see if he can prove the charge.

From Ural website

Indian army buys 1,500 trucks every year from Uralaz and is among the síngIe­l argest buyer of Uralaz trucks in the world. And now, with the Indian defence forces demanding 30 percent Localisation for their defence purchases, the stage is for Ura] India to buy into this market. Typically, army tendering and validation takes a long time. So we get into the game, when the next tender is up for grab explains Kanoi.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 30 Mar 2012 22:38

Sure we can take Mr Rishi at his words with his track record! The guy built a fortune on special access to Rajiv Gandhi.

Meanwhile NVS writes:

http://www.newsinsight.net/archivedebat ... recno=2277

Last man standing

Even in likely defeat, the general wins, says N.V.Subramanian.

30 March 2012: General V.K.Singh's battles with the system, in which he may be the heroic loser, must be recorded and analyzed for posterity's sake. The venal political class and establishment (minus the armed forces) have turned against him. But with the Indian people, the army chief deservingly enjoys great honour and respect.

The general's run in with the system began with the date-of-birth (DOB) controversy which should have been resolved by the defense minister, A.K.Anthony, or by the prime minister, Manmohan Singh. Anthony has a legendary reputation for indecision which is why he ranks among Kerala's worst chief ministers. And for reasons best known to him, the PM did not intervene in the DOB controversy.

The chief has been excoriated for taking the DOB matter to the Supreme Court. He didn't unilaterally do so. A regional grenadiers' association petitioned the court with factual inaccuracies which could only be rectified with the general becoming a party in the case. In any event, General Singh said in his petition he would retire by the due date and only needed the DOB corrected as a matter of personal honour.

The Supreme Court verdict did not resolve the issue. It held that the chief had got his position on the basis of the erroneous DOB and couldn't seek the correction now which is, to put it decently, silly. The government claims the chief accepted the wrong DOB which is less than true. He protested and said he would do what was best in army interest. At any rate, the controversy was forcibly and unsatisfactorily ended by the Supreme Court.

The general's opponents say he resurrected the Tatra bribery scandal just to settle scores with the government. No one has got into the general's head to determine why he did what he did. But it is forgotten that the Tatra scandal was preceded by a scare that A.K.Anthony's phones were bugged, with the insinuation that the army chief had arranged it with listening devices imported for the forces. The partisan defense ministry quickly leaked stories to the press pointing fingers at the chief.

An army chief bugging the defense minister is treason. The agencies were called in and there was nothing. The army hit back involving a controversial former officer, who has now dragged the chief to court on his Tatra allegations. But the point is why didn't the defense ministry go out to clear the chief in the bugging case? How could it be so misled as to distrust its own chief and believe an outsider? There's something rotten in the kingdom administered by A.K.Anthony and Manmohan Singh.

Then the Tatra bribery allegations hit the headlines. The chief is retiring and he gave the attempted bribery details to The Hindu. The general should have pursued the bribe incident when it happened eighteen months ago. That is a lapse. But he did tell his minister, Anthony, who should have acted but didn't. Who is more responsible for the omission? Anthony, because he is the minister. But the political class and the establishment with honourable exceptions turned against the chief, making whistle-blowing, as always, a bigger crime than corruption.

Now come to the (leaked) letter sent by the chief to the PM containing dark secrets about India's military unpreparedness. Who leaked it? The political class jumped to the conclusion that the chief had, and demanded his neck, hoping thereby to put an end to his whistle-blowing. One of those to demand the sack of the honest chief was Laloo Prasad Yadav who earlier this month was charged in the fodder scam.

The chief, to be sure, denied leaking the letter, calling it a cynical attempt to target him. Former Admiral L.Ramdas turns the needle of suspicion towards the defense ministry saying only the defense minister stood to gain by diverting attention from the Tatra scandal. And in the heat generated by the leaked letter, both its damaging contents and the Tatra scam were forgotten. And perfectly representative of a clueless, mindless opposition BJP, Sushma Swaraj said the chief oughtn't to have communicated with the PM to avoid even the "1 percent" chance of a leak. :rotfl:

How should communications within government then be carried out? By telepathy? :mrgreen:

Until about two days ago, the mood of the political class was to act the butcher and sacrifice the chief on the altar of bad faith. It is forgotten how much stink was raised by the dismissal of the brilliant and upstanding former Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat. Otherwise a good man, George Fernandes will carry its black mark to the grave.

The more venerable commentators say General V.K.Singh should have gone away without a fight like the late General K.S.Thimayya. Sorry. This writer disagrees. Because Thimayya didn't leave with his head held high, Jawaharlal Nehru and V.K.Krishna Menon got an opportunity to ride roughshod over the generals, destroyed the army, and disgraced the country in the 1962 war.

Should India lose the next war with Pakistan or China?

Generals like V.K.Singh stand between India and defeat.

Should General V.K.Singh be arraigned in afterlife before a court of great campaigners, including Sam Manekshaw, Douglas MacArthur, Erich von Manstein and "Stonewall" Jackson, he would get a thumping shabaash on his back with the words, "Well done, boy."

The world wallows in mediocrity. Only the best go rogue.


I said the same thing about hw the road led to 1962 with Gen Thimmayya's resignation under JLN and KM's venal politics.


So the person who leaked the letter to PM has succeeded in diverting the attention from the Tatra bribe scandal? So who would benefit from that diversion?

For that we need to know who really benfitted from the Tatra scam of high priced knock down trucks assembled by BEML.

Judging by the efforts to limit the Tatra probe to only current bribery charges shows there are trails to the INC coffers.

Eventually the BEML and Tatra management should be arrested for shoddy goods and the truth will come out or they will get suicided.

The Ghulam Nabi Azad letter forwarding the Union complaint to Sonia Gandhi on Tatra issues provides cover to 2Gs.
Wow how coordinated they are. They take and also write letters about corruption!

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby anjan » 30 Mar 2012 23:20

nelson wrote:Serving army officers are CBI investigated routinely, as a matter of fact. Particularly in relation to offences purportedly committed while on deputation and in cases of corruption where many civilian agencies are involved. The Army or any other defence service does not have wherewithal to complete decent investigation.

Wasn't there talk of creating a criminal investigative service within the aegis of the Army? Like the US. I can't find information on it now and it doesn't exist on even date but I was hoping someone else remembers and has information on it.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 30 Mar 2012 23:32

Pranav wrote:Wow, now the dead bodies have started turning up -

Deputy Director of Defence Ministry found dead

Zeenews Bureau

New Delhi: In a shocking incident the dead body of a deputy director in the Ministry of Defence and his wife was found here on Friday here, according to news reports.

As per initial information it is being said said the deputy director was posted in the Sena Bhawan in the national capital. The dead body of the couple were found in the vicinity of Sena Bhawan.

Meanwhile, Delhi Police is investigating the entire matter and is trying to find out whether there is any connection between the recovery of the bodies and the leak of Army Chief Gen VK Singh’s confidential letter to the PMO about the country’s defence preparedness.

The incident has taken place at a time when the entire attention of the government is on finding the mole who leaked Army Chief’s letter. The Army Chief has already hinted towards rogue elements trying to create schisms between Army and the government.

Further information are awaited.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/de ... 67235.html


Is this related to VKS calling the leak an act of high treason. Some people in the dirty tricks department must be worried. The journalist Saikat Datta of DNA would be well advised to protect himself.


This is worrisome. Remember the dead scientists during the nuclear deal

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Pranav » 30 Mar 2012 23:38

ramana wrote:Who cares about the Czech? Typical Indian reaction to worry about non-Indians! This is one way to dilute the focus and pretend universal norms when the bigger crime occured in India.


It is relevant - what the Indians paid minus what the Czechs got equals what may have gone into 2G coffers.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Pranav » 30 Mar 2012 23:45

ramana wrote:He should ask the Judge Advocate General or order Court of Inquiry on the serving officer.
Going to civliians will lead to disspation like above.


I wonder whether he can still do that.

This Lt Gen is in line to be come chief after Bikram Singh.

Another option is to file a PIL asking for an inquiry independent of the Govt.

If the courts are also compromised then one would really have to think about non-conventional remedies.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Muppalla » 31 Mar 2012 00:12

Pranav wrote:
ramana wrote:Who cares about the Czech? Typical Indian reaction to worry about non-Indians! This is one way to dilute the focus and pretend universal norms when the bigger crime occured in India.


It is relevant - what the Indians paid minus what the Czechs got equals what may have gone into 2G coffers.


I don't know your age but if you are born before 1980, and read through the saga of Bofors, you will get the drift. Olof Palme was the PM of Sweden and the world's arms cartel + G family would have been in deeper trouble had Mr.Palme confesses. The swedish courts were just 0.0000001% away from inditing both Palme and Rajiv. One fine day Mr. Palme was assasinated and that too when he is in office. A Prime Minister of a western European nation is assasinated.

The cartel thrives in India because of 2G and they can go to any length (I mean any length) to make sure 2G survives. Watch and again watch the movie called "The International". Today we already saw an assasination as a fallout to Gen VKS saga.

I still have no clue when Gen VKS started taking on the cartel. Does he have a sound plan and a backup? Is he just doing emotionally? Will he survive? Will he even have minor success beyond nuisance? Unless he has the abilities to mount a colleteral damage with a decapacitating attack, he will be a big failure. The chances of such a game changer are ZERO to Nill.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Ghatotkacha » 31 Mar 2012 00:20

rajrang wrote:Mr. VKS loves politics - the way he is slugging it out openly in the press! A very untypical army chief. Here is my guess. He is preparing to stand for elections during the next general election! Perhaps India's first PM from the army?


Like everyone else, you too entitled to your own opinion.
But, don't you think you should be writing General VKS or Gen. VKS for short. Not, "Mr."

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 31 Mar 2012 00:40

"High Treason,Low Comedy".

If it were not for the fact that the issue is so serious,the rot in the MOD would be the "comedy series of the decade".
(St.) Anthony,leapt with unusual alacrity from his splendid track record of inactivity,to send the CBI off on a hunt for the "leaker",the good general called it "high treason",and fired off another salvo against a serving Lt.Gen.,the political parties screamed themselves hoarse for the good general to be sacked ,the general had a defamation case filed against him by Lt.Gen. (retd.) TS,the Tatra boss lambasted the chief,and the media had a field day.Late news about (St.) Anthony and the 2009 letter warning him about the same alleged scam from within the Congress party itself,,has seen lose his halo and in dire straits about to lose his dhoti too! The Opposition have now found their unified voices and have turned their guns around ,changed target, and have demanded his resignation after first wanting to sack the chief! In the "fog of war",the issue contained in the letter has seen no task force organised to urgently look into the deficiencies in the IA,no calling of the CC on security,parliamentary standing committee,etc.,etc. The PM meanwhile appears to be to busy with the BRICS summit to bother about the bricks,bullets,and bombs pouring down upon the MOD!

Truly,even the combined forces of Hollywood and Bollywood couldn't have dreamt this script up!

The speed with which the "battlefront" is changing by the hour is breathtaking.We now have the first bodies being discovered indicating that the stakes are very,very,high and as Adm.Bhagwat said on telly tonight,the "middle men" involved in defence deals are usually chums with the intel agencies because of the goz they bring with them.This makes them perfect "trojan horses" within the defence establishment and he was totally against their presence. He reeled off a string of names of well known Indian arms dealers from the Nandas downwards.One must remember that Uncle George was earlier not against middlemen,provided they registered themselves...none did!

What we are seeing now is merely the tip of the iceberg.The issue has now gone well beyond the "personal honour" of the chief's DOB,or his (oral) complaint about the Tatra scam,AKA's inaction,but the very edifice of the MOD and defence acquisitions and the all-pervasive penetration and influence of arms manufacturers and their agents.The perilous state of the IA is of such critical importance that the PM should immediately call for an all-party meet on how to redress the issue and effect quick decision making in long hanging acquisitions,in the light of the exposes rocking the country.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Pranav » 31 Mar 2012 00:48

Army procurement issue gets murkier

The letter, in question, was written in May 2011 where the Trinamool MP had alleged 'procurement scams' in the “secretive” Special Frontier Force (SFF), when Lt Gen Dalbir Singh was its Inspector General. Notably, the SFF is under the administrative control of the Research & Analysis Wing (RAW), which is country’s premiere foreign spy agency.

In his letter, Banerjee had named several Army officers, including a former Army Chief, who allegedly received huge kickbacks for defence procurements and amassed “huge” disproportionate assets.

Banerjee also named the middlemen, who allegedly dealt with these procurements. According to the Trinamool MP, the alleged pay-offs were made for the purchase of night-vision devices, communication systems, weapons as well as parachutes.
....
General Singh had in past opposed the appointment of Lt Gen Dalbir Singh as one of the Army Commanders while the Ministry of Defence backed it.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/ar ... 66819.html

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 31 Mar 2012 00:50

Philip, This mess was created without any help from all parties. Why do you suggest an all parties conf to clean the mess!

As an aisde so all the arms merchants and dealers was working full force during the UPA years without bothering to register etc.

Will those guys now sue Adm Bhagwat for defamation?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 31 Mar 2012 01:28

Some one should recast Gabbar Singh's dailogues to account for Congress neta's penchant for grazing.


IA general to Congress Neta: Saab we need to buy new tanks and guns!

Congrees neta to IA general: Kitne Korod tehe?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 31 Mar 2012 01:47

Should we take this into strategic discussion forum - the rest of the iceberg extends beyond India

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Samay » 31 Mar 2012 01:48

Philip wrote:"High Treason,Low Comedy".
(St.) Anthony,leapt with unusual alacrity from his splendid track record of inactivity,to send the CBI off on a hunt for the "leaker",the good general called it "high treason",and fired off another salvo against a serving Lt.Gen.,the political parties screamed themselves hoarse for the good general to be sacked

Truly said
due to his inactivity ,Antony is making army a handicap , this man should've been fired long ago, but it seems the General is pointing in the right direction, only thing he needs to do is to fire a salvo of pgms on these dhotiwalas and their business partners and we will see the coffin being laid down..
now they must feel the brunt after playing with a true soldier..

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 31 Mar 2012 02:02

I think VKS has mapped the corruption nexus. The root is the business partners. The public has no sympathy for the bribe givers.
By going after the business partners/enablers, he is forcing the politicians to act to show their image is not fake.

With one well aimed hit at Tatra the INC old family peepul tree* is shaking and ghosts tumbling out.


* in folklore, the peepul tree has the brahma rakshasa(Holy ghosts or 2Gs!) haunting it and preying on innocent travellers(mango people) taking shelter under it.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Badar » 31 Mar 2012 02:08

ramana wrote:Philip, This mess was created without any help from all parties. Why do you suggest an all parties conf to clean the mess!

Presumably because some national issues are so vital that all political parties must come together to formulate an acceptable line of action, rather than the usual partisan mudslinging and nation-down-the-drain rhetoric. Defense procurement deficiencies is at the point of seriously undermining national security and they must be placed beyond the ambit of usual politicking and dealt with with statesmanship - from all comers - in government as well as the opposition. Some tough decisions need to be taken to clean the cesspool that is army procurement - and it is simply not going to happen unless the opposition cooperates - even if the parties in power and in opposition were to be swapped.

The Bofors scandal has hurt India more than the Bofors scam itself. One resulted in the loss to the exchequer to the tune of some crore rupees, the other has stifled army modernization for decades. The current government is extremely sensitive to accusations of defense scams and is playing it safe by aborting recapitalization at the first hint of trouble. Almost every procurement decision is being held hostage to accusations of corruption resulting in rebids, re-competes or outright cancellations. The ruling parties are not getting out of this morass without coming to some understanding with the opposition. Naturally this presumes that both GoI and the opposition are willing to place national needs above party lines.

Frankly, right now I would take the Rafale, Barak and 155mm deals with kickbacks rather than allow them to fall into doldrums for another decade.

And for folks thinking that a change of government is going to magically cleanse the procurement system, well think again.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Ghatotkacha » 31 Mar 2012 02:42

ramana wrote:Some one should recast Gabbar Singh's dailogues to account for Congress neta's penchant for grazing.


IA general to Congress Neta: Saab we need to buy new tanks and guns!

Congrees neta to IA general: Kitne Korod tehe?

:rotfl: :rotfl:
That is truly funny.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Kakkaji » 31 Mar 2012 05:36

During the Tehelka/ Coffingate ruckus, even though the amounts involved were relatively small, the Congress went hammer and tongs after the NDA Govt., resulting in resignations of George Fernandes as Defense Minister, and Bangaru Laxman as the BJP Chief.

Now when the tables are turned, and the amount involved and damage done is much more, the BJP reaction is muted. They are giving a free pass to Congress-led UPA.

Something doesn't compute. :-?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Surya » 31 Mar 2012 05:47

OMG

Did I miss it on this thread

Unnithan has not dissapointed with his ack thoo character

General VKS war on India :eek:

lock stock and barrel a hit man

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Gaurav_S » 31 Mar 2012 05:51

Bhai log, I have noob question here. I am following this whole drama since chief said he was offerred 14cr till today when CBI is roped in. Now questions are.

1) If someone offerred him bribe then why he can't give more details publicly? Like name of the person or status.

2) Fortunately, details like "army running out of ammo" etc was leaked during peace. Does this mean that such info "can" leak out during war time as well? Or is this some kind of trap to misguide?

3) IMO, from that video of "general ka court marshall" chief sounded RELUCTANT to persuade the matter further. If he is genuine then why not?

Some questions that has been spinning in my mind since this whole drama unfolded.

BTW, below is the poll from TOIlet.

Image

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby RoyG » 31 Mar 2012 05:58

NGO's, foreign intelligence agencies, hawala dealers, arms dealers, ceo's, etc have touched both parties. If one goes, the other will too.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Rampy » 31 Mar 2012 06:02

This is cooked. I posted and the percent still remains 31. If anyone has load runner than just run the script and kill the poll
Toilet should be shutdown

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby krisna » 31 Mar 2012 06:04

Gaurav_S wrote:
BTW, below is the poll from TOIlet.

Image


This is a sham.

Internet users are predominantly nationalist ones. majority are against paid media and corrupt GOI.
Internet users are educated sdres, not the traditional aam junta.
Likely TOILET is trying to project VKS as a villain.
No wonder TOILET and other paid media are just "TOILET" stuff.
:rotfl:

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:15

What are the repercussions of libel in India? Is there a different standard for Journalists?

What rights do victims have?

Take the example of Chacko. He wrote a couple of days ago that Army chief VKS allowed the loot of country for 2 years.

When he wrote that many reports were already out that VKS had already cancelled the Tatra contract. Chacko just did not bother checking the reports. In this case since Chacko the journalist spread lies here at BR he could have done something similar wherever his diatribe gets published.

Can the victims go after lousy journalists? Is there a legal recourse to them? Because afterall a person's reputation is tarnished by journalists who lie through their teeth.
Last edited by peter on 31 Mar 2012 07:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:17

Gaurav_S wrote:Bhai log, I have noob question here. I am following this whole drama since chief said he was offerred 14cr till today when CBI is roped in. Now questions are.

1) If someone offerred him bribe then why he can't give more details publicly? Like name of the person or status.

Which planet are you residing on? Have you heard Anthony's statement in Parliament?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:18

Kakkaji wrote:During the Tehelka/ Coffingate ruckus, even though the amounts involved were relatively small, the Congress went hammer and tongs after the NDA Govt., resulting in resignations of George Fernandes as Defense Minister, and Bangaru Laxman as the BJP Chief.

Now when the tables are turned, and the amount involved and damage done is much more, the BJP reaction is muted. They are giving a free pass to Congress-led UPA.

Something doesn't compute. :-?

BJP is a party of jokers. What else did you expect?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:22

chackojoseph wrote: I accidentally got into this VKS AKA debate.

Holier than thou? You accuse, falsely, General VKS for allowing the loot of the country for two years and you expect us to believe this is accidental?

There is a limit to self delusion....

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 31 Mar 2012 07:23

I do not know if forum rules allow me to post this here, saw this on social media site posted by a retired Col.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/gno6dv

"VK SINGH--VILLAIN OR HERO: A VIEW POINT

History will prove that Hero/villain.However,let us place our hands on heart and feel that in his situation would we have taken that big stand whatever be considerations.Most of us who have served in AHQ know what goes on there.Arms lobbies rule the roost.They decide most of the moves under shelter of MOD.MOD takes the cream and crumbs are for Generals.VK is different.I WILL SHARE A SMALL INCIDENT TO WHICH I AM WITNESS.IN 2004 WHEN I WAS SERVING IN AHQ,A COLLEGUE OF MINE BRIG WAS POSTED IN MGO BR.HE WAS IN PROCUREMENT SECTION.VCOAS WAS CHAIRING THE CONF IN MGO BR,CASE OF PURCHASE OF ADDL 3000 TATRAS WAS BEING DISCUSSED.ALL HEADS OF ARMS AND SERVICES WERE THERE.EVERYONE SUPPORTED REPEAT ORDER WITH VETRAS FOR1.10 CR A TATRA.BRIG FRIEND WHO HAD JUST JOINED MGO AS DDG ASKED JUSTIFICATION WHEN ANOTHER FIRM WAS PROVIDING US 60 LAKHS APIECE.VETRAS HAD PROMISED TRANSFER OF TECH BUT NEVER DID NEW FIRM WAS READY FOR TFR OF TECH.STATE WAS SAVING A LOT.NO ONE SUPPORTED HIM.MGO TRIED TO GIVE HIM SHUT UP CALL.HE TOLD THAT HIS DISAGREEMENT MAY BE RECORDED.BRIG WAS POSTED OUT OF MGO BR NEXT DAY TO SIDE LINED DTE.IT IS OLD STORY.MOD AND AHQ IS THICK WITH MUD.HOPE ONE CHIEF CAN DO SOMETHING."

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:24

Pranav wrote:DNA exclusive: Antony was aware of Tatra scam since ’09 - http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_dn ... 09_1669171

Defence minister AK Antony was formally apprised of the Tatra trucks scam as early as 2009 but he turned a blind eye. DNA detailed this scam in a series of investigative stories in July 2011.

This assumes significance because Antony recently told Parliament that he didn’t act when army chief General VK Singh told him he was offered a Rs14 crore bribe to clear the purchase of a tranche of substandard Tatra trucks because he didn’t get a ‘written complaint’.


Was this a pre emptive move by congress to take the moral high ground in case shit hit the fan as it has now?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:26

krisna wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:
IIRC, there is also a story of Rs 600 cr being charged as business services or so in an Israeli order. it was charged during AKA's tenure.


viewtopic.php?p=1261565#p1261565
Bofors scam Rs 64 cr; Israel Rs 600 cr
But perhaps the worst thing to happen during Antony’s watch was what could have been a huge kickback in a defence deal: the Rs 10,000 crore missile deal with Israel Aerospace Industries.

Antony’s ministry allowed the Israeli firm to bill a huge Rs 600 crore as “business charges”, and failed to kick up a storm over this clause in the agreement.

Where did this money go? What were the business charges incurred? For a much smaller payment of Rs 64 crore, Rajiv Gandhi got himself entangled in the Bofors controversy. He could never wash off the stigma. But a Rs 600 crore payment under Antony has completely gone under the radar. (Read the full story here).


And Anthony is still honest? Wow!

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:27

alexis wrote:
VKS and AKA may have valid reasons for not pursuing the matter of bribe. However, just to raise it in public after 2 years without taking any action in between is not correct.


Are you a chacko avatar?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 31 Mar 2012 07:33

Sanku wrote:Woo hoo



The CBI FIR -- filed under Section 420 and provisions in the Prevention of Corruption Act – has named Ravi Rishi as one of the accused. Others named include unknown officials of the Defence Ministry and personnel, officials of the BEML and Vectra group.
After registering the case, CBI officials carried out searches at four places in Delhi, Noida and Bangalore



This should put the "lying" brigade at rest who have been claiming that General VKS himself needed to file the FIR or give anything in writing.

CBI filed the FIR on a verbal complaint of General VKS to the Hindu newspaper. Same verbal complaint was made to Anthony on which Anthony did not act.


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