Indian Army : News and Discussion
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
all in all this is another episode in the corruption soap opera with the political system at its core. no (political) party is clean.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Gupta is gunning for AKA. Good call BRF.Nikhil T wrote:Shekhar Gupta on NDTV on his story
I must say Shekhar Gupta has NEVER fumbled so much for words. There is something very fishy in this whole affair. Shame on him and IE.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Something is really murky about this whole situation. Army Chief defends the government (this is after no less than MMS and Antony categorically rubbished the report).
I think there is problem in MMS's cabinet and not in the army as suggested by The IE.
@PTI_NewsWhoever is trying to make stories against army chief is deplorable: Gen V K Singh to PTI.
People are unnecessarily trying to throw muck at both government and army: Gen Singh.
Such people need to be taken to task: Gen Singh.
I think there is problem in MMS's cabinet and not in the army as suggested by The IE.
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Not just that. General was planning a coup for a reason : DoB changeravi_g wrote:The hilarious part was the PC ki police putting up barricades to stop a Mechanized Division
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
There were 48 Tatra trucks with BMPs on them that started from Hisar towards Delhi as part of the exercise. I'm cracking up visualizing a Delhi police gypsy barricading the road to prevent Tatra trucks from marching forward. Three cheers to Chidu and has his ideas to counter the so called coup.chackojoseph wrote:Not just that. General was planning a coup for a reason : DoB changeravi_g wrote:The hilarious part was the PC ki police putting up barricades to stop a Mechanized Division
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Senior minister Sutradhar of coup report?
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investig ... oup-report
Sources involved in tracking sensitive developments claim that a senior minister of the UPA government was the mastermind of the April 4 front page item in a daily newspaper about a suspected coup attempt.
the minister is connected - through his close relative - with the defense procurement lobbies gunning for Chief of Army Staff General V K Singh,and that the decision to "trick the newspaper into running a baseless report was to drain away support for General Singh within the political class",who could be expected to unite against any effort at creating a Pakistan-style situation in India. {Now that's a coup against the nation and the politician be punished for his deeds.}
{Who is this Sutradhar and what action has been taken against him?}
However,the minister in question appears to have miscalculated the response of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Defense Minister to the report."The minister assumed that both would decline comment on the report, in view of their strained relations with the Army chief, but instead both came out foursquare against the newspaper.This surprised both the minister as well as journalists who relied on him for the initial information," a source claimed.
Others say that a close relative of the minister in question has been "regularly meeting with arms merchants and their lobbyists,including on his many visits abroad". They say that the Intelligence Bureau seems clueless about such activities,as "its net does not cover the influential people in question". Those connected with national security say that "the net of arms merchants is very wide, with Dubai,London and Bangkok being the three locations where they usually wine,dine and otherwise entertain VVIPs from India". In order to ensure protection for their operations,a lot of which involves dubious money transfers, such agencies and individuals "usually function as auxiliaries of foreign intelligence agencies, and are told to ferret out sensitive and secret information from their contacts". These sources claim that "non-declared units of selected NATO member country intelligence agencies (especially one with a huge presence in the defense procurement market in India ) regularly liase with lobbyists and employees of arms manufacturers,and use them for operations such as honeytrapping".In such a context,"their link with relatives of ministers is a worry."
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investig ... oup-report
Sources involved in tracking sensitive developments claim that a senior minister of the UPA government was the mastermind of the April 4 front page item in a daily newspaper about a suspected coup attempt.
the minister is connected - through his close relative - with the defense procurement lobbies gunning for Chief of Army Staff General V K Singh,and that the decision to "trick the newspaper into running a baseless report was to drain away support for General Singh within the political class",who could be expected to unite against any effort at creating a Pakistan-style situation in India. {Now that's a coup against the nation and the politician be punished for his deeds.}
{Who is this Sutradhar and what action has been taken against him?}
However,the minister in question appears to have miscalculated the response of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Defense Minister to the report."The minister assumed that both would decline comment on the report, in view of their strained relations with the Army chief, but instead both came out foursquare against the newspaper.This surprised both the minister as well as journalists who relied on him for the initial information," a source claimed.
Others say that a close relative of the minister in question has been "regularly meeting with arms merchants and their lobbyists,including on his many visits abroad". They say that the Intelligence Bureau seems clueless about such activities,as "its net does not cover the influential people in question". Those connected with national security say that "the net of arms merchants is very wide, with Dubai,London and Bangkok being the three locations where they usually wine,dine and otherwise entertain VVIPs from India". In order to ensure protection for their operations,a lot of which involves dubious money transfers, such agencies and individuals "usually function as auxiliaries of foreign intelligence agencies, and are told to ferret out sensitive and secret information from their contacts". These sources claim that "non-declared units of selected NATO member country intelligence agencies (especially one with a huge presence in the defense procurement market in India ) regularly liase with lobbyists and employees of arms manufacturers,and use them for operations such as honeytrapping".In such a context,"their link with relatives of ministers is a worry."
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
PC should have IPC 188 against the illegal gathering which has potential to cause law and order situation.
BTW, morning cartoon, MMS tells Miano: Army cannot conduct a coup, Madame. They have no arms and ammo
BTW, morning cartoon, MMS tells Miano: Army cannot conduct a coup, Madame. They have no arms and ammo
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
@CJ & Roperia -
Chidu has some good forces available under his Home Ministry. He may act misguided or even corrupt, but him acting stupid would be quite uncharacterstic. Also Jan 16/17 he would have been neck deep in preparing for the Rday and then Beating retreat. His police bandobast may have been quite routine too.
This kind of thinking requires somebody like DVS fellow or perhaps Kapil Sibal. People who dont know much but have made a life out of their Vaakpatuta.
In a way its a good sign. Shows how 'The Prince' is relying on his 'Machiavelli'
Added later:
'Others say that a close relative of the minister in question has been "regularly meeting with arms merchants and their lobbyists,including on his many visits abroad". They say that the Intelligence Bureau seems clueless about such activities'
More then a pointer, there
Chidu has some good forces available under his Home Ministry. He may act misguided or even corrupt, but him acting stupid would be quite uncharacterstic. Also Jan 16/17 he would have been neck deep in preparing for the Rday and then Beating retreat. His police bandobast may have been quite routine too.
This kind of thinking requires somebody like DVS fellow or perhaps Kapil Sibal. People who dont know much but have made a life out of their Vaakpatuta.
In a way its a good sign. Shows how 'The Prince' is relying on his 'Machiavelli'
Added later:
'Others say that a close relative of the minister in question has been "regularly meeting with arms merchants and their lobbyists,including on his many visits abroad". They say that the Intelligence Bureau seems clueless about such activities'
More then a pointer, there
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
home ministry needs massive clean up for sure
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
I haven't taken the coup, the VKS bribe issue and attack on AKA, the Army spying on MoD, Dob issues important. There is nothing in these matters and all are non events. Just some people are excited.ravi_g wrote:@CJ & Roperia -
Chidu has some good forces available under his Home Ministry. He may act misguided or even corrupt, but him acting stupid would be quite uncharacterstic. Also Jan 16/17 he would have been neck deep in preparing for the Rday and then Beating retreat. His police bandobast may have been quite routine too.
This kind of thinking requires somebody like DVS fellow or perhaps Kapil Sibal. People who dont know much but have made a life out of their Vaakpatuta.
In a way its a good sign. Shows how 'The Prince' is relying on his 'Machiavelli'
The moron who coined the coup word in this incident has no idea of the composition of IA, which doesn't allow it to make a coup. Any large movement towards new Delhi is seen odd and logically investigated.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
--- leave it -----
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
And India is not Pindistan, Rank and file, Generals of Army which are from Indian society will never agree for a coup. which a population 1250 million, a coup cannot be just undertaken by a capturing a few blocks of Delhi.
Such an article only states the stupidy of author and is Wet dreams for Pakis who will be salivating and defaming the Indian Army.
Such an article only states the stupidy of author and is Wet dreams for Pakis who will be salivating and defaming the Indian Army.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
the middle men and corrupters and those who feed off them who have been trying to subvert the state and its institutions are fighting back against a possible attempt to clean up
this is all a continuation of bad governance purging that the country must go through
this is all a continuation of bad governance purging that the country must go through
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Sorry last joke on Delhi Police.Roperia wrote: There were 48 Tatra trucks with BMPs on them that started from Hisar towards Delhi as part of the exercise. I'm cracking up visualizing a Delhi police gypsy barricading the road to prevent Tatra trucks from marching forward. Three cheers to Chidu and has his ideas to counter the so called coup.
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
FWIW, that IE article, does not focus on a "coup", it focuses more on the UPA/babu reaction to that troop movement. IMHO it raises the question, why did UPA/Babus react that way, over a what was most likely a procedural lapse in the Army. It reflects very badly on the state of affairs in MoD, & the competence of AK Antony & MMS in managing our country's defence.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Finally this also comes to #1 rougue Chidu.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
arun - what procedural lapse? nothing out of the ordinary has happened
except that the bribe givers and takers are being put under the spotlight, and all the dirty tricks for evasion are coming out
except that the bribe givers and takers are being put under the spotlight, and all the dirty tricks for evasion are coming out
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
@Lalmohan, please ignore the "procedural lapse" if you disagree, I just used the term with the qualifier "most likely" to make a bigger point about the article i.e. it focused more on the UPA/Babu reaction to the troop movement. IMHO, I dont think I.E. hinted or was suggesting that a coup was on or was even a remote possibility.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
there is also the 'total idiots at work' theory, i.e. SG assumed he could sell more copies by printing an absurdly outrageous story - which then got out of hand and he's having to downhill ski rapidly
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
1) moving of troops is a fact.arunsrinivasan wrote:FWIW, that IE article, does not focus on a "coup", it focuses more on the UPA/babu reaction to that troop movement.
2) Reaction is an opinion. This is why Shaker Gupta (edited based on humble request after 2 posts) is getting bambooed.
If you remember the 8 day BS from IE on DRDO, it was a copy and paste of CAG with some comments which were twisted.
He miscommunicated. He was struggling to tell that on NDTV too. He said that he reported it. Never said it was coup.
There is nothing to talk about this subject.
On the bribe offer to VKS, a PRO was of the view that VKS should have said the entire thing. He said that ironically, Army knows better that press wallas are not to be trusted. He said that it was a PR disaster. The funniest part he said, by being cautious about naming TS and the full extent of matter, the good gen was firing a gun with cork on. The bullet went from rear and not front. (it was a funny and now don't start 'how can a bullet exit from the rear of the barrel....' )
Last edited by chackojoseph on 05 Apr 2012 19:11, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
<same article posted by chaanakya ji below with much more passion>
Last edited by Roperia on 05 Apr 2012 19:18, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
'Troop movement': Army chief feared people would make fake stories
ps; roperia has beaten me to it.
Well SG looks like an Idiot in the light of these details coming out now. It is also that he did not do his homework and didn't knew who the concerned commander was.NEW DELHI: That there was some talk about the mid-January movement of two elite Army units towards the capital which had exercised Army Chief Gen V K Singh's mind is evident in an interview he had given to an English magazine in middle of March.
"Even, let us say one of our forces or divisions or brigades does exercise, somebody will say, oh! they did exercise. It was not an exercise, they wanted to do something else.
"Now you will make a story out of it. There are lots of people who want to make stories these days for various nefarious aims, if I can put it like that," he had told 'The Week' magazine during the interview on March 13.
He also said that "if somebody has got any doubt, they should come and face us. They won't because they know they are wrong".
In that interview he had also said that Army was doing a professional job but there were people both uniformed and not in uniform, some civil servants, who had their own axis to grind. They start feeding all kinds of wrong things, he said.
"So, you tell him (journalist) something juicy, it comes on front page and nobody even looks whether there is any truth in it. It is already done. So, you have already thrown muck on somebody. There are lots of people who are doing that and I don't know what their motives are," Gen Singh had said.
The Army Chief's comments last month assume significance against the backdrop of a report in the Indian Express on Wednesday that there was an unusual movement of a mechanised infantry unit from Hisar in Haryana and a sizeable section of 50 Para Brigade from Agra on the night of January 16-17 towards the capital .
ps; roperia has beaten me to it.
Last edited by chaanakya on 05 Apr 2012 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
a small humble mumble
'SG' already reserved.
Shekar Gupta == Shaker Gupta onlee.
'SG' already reserved.
Shekar Gupta == Shaker Gupta onlee.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Here is a recording of the interview - http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/w ... eststories
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
@kailashmaharash @quizderek : Shekhar Gupta had four sessions with PC in the Ministry to prepare the story. Editor or steno?
https://twitter.com/#!/Swamy39
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Karnad on the story.
Fanciful coup détat story
Posted on April 4, 2012
It is a pity Indian Express ran with the potential coup détat story that to journalists may have seemed fleshy but that any professional militaryman or domain expert would have warned them was hollow. (It is always advisable, in the circumstances, to have some stalwart armymen respond to such stories before putting it in print.) The trouble is Shekhar Gupta has always fancied himself as someone knowledgeable on, and informed about, military matters, and it was perhaps too juicy a story for him as editor-in-chief to pass up by way of an albeit shared byline. In retrospect, he might wish he had left Ritu Sarin, who has over the years cultivated good sources in the intelligence agencies, to monopolize the (dis)credit. In military terms, the story was so much nonsense, and I said so and explained why to several highly-placed political persons from the opposition who called this morning to find out how much credibility was packed in this story. If a coup could be prosecuted so easily — with just two army units – in a vastly divided military system of command and control, there might have been many coups or at least coup attempts by now.
Having said that, however, there is no gainsaying the fact that the plausible sounding outlines of the report were likely onpassed to Sarin by her Intel contacts who, in turn, may have been prompted by some civil servants (with a nod and wink from a minister) to see whether it flies and even more if the radioactive dust settles on the COAS, General VK Singh. It hasn’t, and the mud is now stuck on Shekhar Gupta’s face and, perhaps, has considerably soiled his reputation.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
If PC is involved and the history tells that the 2G are involved. If the hit story that Duppatta wrote is really because of help and needs of Chidu then the dots are clear. Per ANI news, yesterday late night (IST) Sonia+Pranab met PM. This could be to stop the PM any further investigation that leads to naming PC. Any action against PC is a big NO-NO for the G-family.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
If that's true then need to charge Sonia + PC with High Treason.Muppalla wrote:If PC is involved and the history tells that the 2G are involved. If the hit story that Duppatta wrote is really because of help and needs of Chidu then the dots are clear. Per ANI news, yesterday late night (IST) Sonia+Pranab met PM. This could be to stop the PM any further investigation that leads to naming PC. Any action against PC is a big NO-NO for the G-family.
MMS better watch out lest he become an accomplice by shielding the guilty.
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Reason: 3rd warning. banned for a month.
Reason: 3rd warning. banned for a month.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
guys, this is the army thread, keep 2G and sonia gandhi out of it, it's already murky enough.
also, do stop the personal attacks while you are at it.
also, do stop the personal attacks while you are at it.
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PC is a massive problem. Couple of my write ups on him What about the defenders of the corruption? , Gandhian fasts again, will Her Majesty’s ministers be back? .
As I said before, AKA neither is corrupt, won't support corrupt by keeping quite and will not support corrupt. His mission in def Min is exactly that.
Folks found AKA and VKS easier to needle. My humble request to the posters, whom I am sure are here for the love of the men in uniform and Bharat Mata, please don't let these twisted news get the honest men.
As I said before, AKA neither is corrupt, won't support corrupt by keeping quite and will not support corrupt. His mission in def Min is exactly that.
Folks found AKA and VKS easier to needle. My humble request to the posters, whom I am sure are here for the love of the men in uniform and Bharat Mata, please don't let these twisted news get the honest men.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
chackojoseph wrote:I haven't taken the coup, the VKS bribe issue and attack on AKA, the Army spying on MoD, Dob issues important. There is nothing in these matters and all are non events. Just some people are excited.ravi_g wrote:@CJ & Roperia -
Chidu has some good forces available under his Home Ministry. He may act misguided or even corrupt, but him acting stupid would be quite uncharacterstic. Also Jan 16/17 he would have been neck deep in preparing for the Rday and then Beating retreat. His police bandobast may have been quite routine too.
This kind of thinking requires somebody like DVS fellow or perhaps Kapil Sibal. People who dont know much but have made a life out of their Vaakpatuta.
In a way its a good sign. Shows how 'The Prince' is relying on his 'Machiavelli'
The moron who coined the coup word in this incident has no idea of the composition of IA, which doesn't allow it to make a coup. Any large movement towards new Delhi is seen odd and logically investigated.
More than that the Indian military ethos has no place for politicial takeover or a coup of the country. This is the main reason why there wont be coup. All other reasons are secondary.
Compositiion /vomposition are all tertiary.
Police stopping the army is joke.
Further under PC the whole intelligence apparatus has become politicised. He wantst o create a NKVD style apparatus to implement the "Night of the generals" like Stalin! One more reason why NCTC should not be allowed without checks and balance.
We should be clear in our arguments and not jumble them up.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Dont want to hurt myself while patting myself on the back but I had said this Shekhar Gupta story smacks of 2G family retainers hand.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
The Parliamentary commtitee on MoD should summon Shekar Gupta in camera(closed session) and make him testify with full force of the law.
Demanding MMS to answer is all nonsense.
The problem is with Shekhar Gupta and his ilk/Coterie.
If the rascal invokes journalistic integrrity and all that then let the Parliament security staff (Sergeant at Arms) give him an interrogatioin.
Demanding MMS to answer is all nonsense.
The problem is with Shekhar Gupta and his ilk/Coterie.
If the rascal invokes journalistic integrrity and all that then let the Parliament security staff (Sergeant at Arms) give him an interrogatioin.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
CJ get off the high horse. No one on this forum is out to get any honest folks.
If you do a search its forum members who first said AKA and VKS are a tag team. That means they are both on same side.
Also as a journalist you are supposed ot have a neutral opinion and let the facts speak for themselves. On the contrary you are putting your own opinion everywhere. Which one are you a member or a journalist? If the former then don't post new articles along with your opinion. If the later then just post the article and let it speak for itself. It will double your work but it ensures everyone knows whcih hat you are wearing in that post.
If you do a search its forum members who first said AKA and VKS are a tag team. That means they are both on same side.
Also as a journalist you are supposed ot have a neutral opinion and let the facts speak for themselves. On the contrary you are putting your own opinion everywhere. Which one are you a member or a journalist? If the former then don't post new articles along with your opinion. If the later then just post the article and let it speak for itself. It will double your work but it ensures everyone knows whcih hat you are wearing in that post.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
There is no way that the coup story was written without prior clearances from the highest in the land. Even shaker gupta has to answer to someone.Muppalla wrote:If PC is involved and the history tells that the 2G are involved. If the hit story that Duppatta wrote is really because of help and needs of Chidu then the dots are clear. Per ANI news, yesterday late night (IST) Sonia+Pranab met PM. This could be to stop the PM any further investigation that leads to naming PC. Any action against PC is a big NO-NO for the G-family.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Having heard this type of sentiment often, what are the reasons that a coup is not possible in India?Aditya_V wrote:And India is not Pindistan, Rank and file, Generals of Army which are from Indian society will never agree for a coup. which a population 1250 million, a coup cannot be just undertaken by a capturing a few blocks of Delhi.
All it needs is for the government to be arrested, and a new government to be appointed in its place. Indira Gandhi managed to impose the Emergency using these tactics of putting one set of civilian leaders in jail.
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
Sorry.ramana wrote:CJ get off the high horse. No one on this forum is out to get any honest folks.
If you do a search its forum members who first said AKA and VKS are a tag team. That means they are both on same side.
Also as a journalist you are supposed ot have a neutral opinion and let the facts speak for themselves. On the contrary you are putting your own opinion everywhere. Which one are you a member or a journalist? If the former then don't post new articles along with your opinion. If the later then just post the article and let it speak for itself. It will double your work but it ensures everyone knows whcih hat you are wearing in that post.
Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion
I am still surprised that there are lookouts who keep a watch on army movement towards the Capital.
what an uneventful life they must be leading (aside from this episode)!
what an uneventful life they must be leading (aside from this episode)!