Indian Army : News and Discussion

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nelson
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 07 Apr 2012 01:25

With respect to IE hiding behind Gen retd Panag's tweets.

General Singh rejected any link between the timing of the troop exercises, and his petition regarding his date of birth in the Supreme Court. “How is there any connection?” When pointed out that there were suggestions that the movement was meant to ‘scare' the government or exert pressure, he responded, “You have gone to the Supreme Court. What is there to scare the government for? These are fables of a sick mind. Anyone who makes a connection needs to see a psychiatrist. I had followed the laid down norms of a democratic constitution and gone to the SC. Where is the doubt left?”

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Roperia » 07 Apr 2012 01:33

=> Brigadier Mahalingam says this is part of the campaign to discredit the Chief because the Def Ministry has yet to reply to his statutory complaint on the DoB issue whose previous response was annulled by the Supreme Court. If the Def Ministry doesn't do that there will be two army Chief's on June 1.

=> Mahroof Raza says its the bureaucracy which is the "sutradhar" of this media campaign to discredit him.

=> Arnab Goswami says that it seems there is a lobby which wants to create a rift between Chief and RM so that they can't work together to clean up the system.

=> Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat says during the tenure of the last two Chiefs there has been an environment of lies, deceit and intrigue. Certain elements of the political class, the bureaucracy, the arms companies and their representatives in Delhi want him out.

Was the Army Chief forewarned?-1
Was the Army Chief forewarned?-2
Last edited by Roperia on 07 Apr 2012 01:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby nelson » 07 Apr 2012 01:35

Marten wrote:
nachiket wrote:...
She is the Lt. General's daughter I think.

Correct. Wasn't there a huge controversy over moving him from Northern Command under Gen Kapoor? This was immediately after he nailed a few of those scammers - ketchup karnail etc.


Yes, he was moved from Northern to Central Command. He could not nail them, because the offender was sitting on his head.

Ketchup Karnail was in Northeast. Different case.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 07 Apr 2012 02:06

Why is it that only INC sees coup mirages or halucinations? The Janata Party, United (Af)Front nor the NDA had such fears.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 07 Apr 2012 02:21

^^^ The biggest chors r most paranoid

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 07 Apr 2012 04:42

No money can be made now in Artillery purchase. Tank orders are with Russia. Anybody ,anywhere have an idea about the items IA is suppose to purchase from the Brochureworld? This can help narrowing down the interested parties and perspective millionaire dreaming big at the cost of national defence and security. As far as i understand , the Halchal among the Delhi Vulture Culture Club memebrs can be caused by Big money items only and not for lowly fistfull of Dollah.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Prem » 07 Apr 2012 04:59

Jarita wrote:^^^ The biggest chors r most paranoid

Chors have the honor and dont steal from their own neighborhood/home . This is battle between the Sons of Soil and the Guns for Hire by the ruler without Attire to set the nation on Fire and waste energy in useless Quagmire while the wealth is Stolen and Stored outside the Desh to be distributed among the Gangadini Liars. It is good thing it came out now as it will strengthen the system , great opportunity to clean and remove the ugly leeches sucking Indian blood .Clan Cleaned Congress and Indic Rooted Political Entities will provide platform for issue based politics.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Roperia » 07 Apr 2012 05:18

Defence minister AK Antony in crosshairs for taking on arms lobby?

NEW DELHI: A spate of controversies about the Army may have been a result of the vicious factional feud within the force, but there are indications that the controversies are also being used as fodder to target defence minister AK Antony.

Allegations against Army chief Gen VK Singh, ranging from deployment of off-the-air interceptors to unauthorized troop movements to the capital, may have emanated from internal rivalries in the Army, but many now suspect these are now being used to make a case against Antony for his "inaction" and inability to handle the delicate equation between the political leadership and the Army.

The reasons for the suspicions are twofold. First, with the Army chief set to retire on May 31, the main worry of his rivals has ceased to exist. Second, Antony's anti-corruption stand has antagonized a whole range of interests: arms lobbies, middlemen, foreign governments and armament firms.

Antony firm on clean process

Last month, Antony banned six armament companies, including four foreign firms - Israeli Military Industries, Singapore Technologies Kinetics, Rheinmetall Air Defence ( Zurich) and Corporation Defence ( Russia) - for 10 years.

It's said that some warned him against this radical step, saying the backlash could be severe. But the defence minister factored in the warning, kept the top political leadership informed about every step taken by him, and went ahead and blacklisted the companies in his deep belief that defence procurement by world's largest arms importer should be completely free of any taint.

Despite the growing criticism about his handling of defence ministry, Antony remains unapologetic. Only this week, he acknowledged that blacklisting Israel's IMI had derailed a Rs 1,200 crore project in Nalanda, Bihar, for an ordnance complex of five plants to manufacture propellant charges for heavy-calibre artillery ammunition for Bofors Howitzers and other guns. However, he defended the decision.

"Blacklisting IMI has further delayed our Nalanda project. We are determined to modernize our armed forces fast but there will be zero tolerance on corruption. So, sometimes delays will take place," he said at the induction ceremony of nuclear submarine INS Chakra at Visakhapatnam on Wednesday.

His quest for corruption-free defence purchases has been attacked as impractical and he has been blamed for delaying the modernization of the armed forces. But while this has argument has virtually been turned into conventional wisdom, facts prove that armed forces have fared much better under Antony in using up budgetary allocations. Last year, the defence ministry spent the entire allocation.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby hanumadu » 07 Apr 2012 06:20

Who is Lt-Gen Tejinder Singh?

Those involved in the making of purchases for security agencies under the Home Ministry or the PMO say that retired Lt-General Tejinder Singh,who has been explicitly accused by the Army of having floated reports that Chief of Army Staff General V K Singh spied on Defense Minister A K Antony, is not an unknown figure within the world of suppliers of equipment. One source said that Tejinder Singh "operates in tandem with a Major Hooda (retd) and his son, both of whom are well known to Karthik Chidambaram,the influential son of Home Minister P Chidambaram".

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 07 Apr 2012 06:22

Its PC running the campaign. All allegations come from MHA ass ets. He doesnt want any alternates.


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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Jarita » 07 Apr 2012 07:46

Don't get the unmitigated greed of 2G. Just don't understand how much they want to leech

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby ramana » 07 Apr 2012 08:22

You need to read the Dictators' handbook by Bruno De Mesquita. To stay in power they need to feed their supporters and no amount of money is sufficient. See how the Mughals collapsed? Every one of their supporters have to be fed or else they will take their support elsewhere.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Altair » 07 Apr 2012 09:54

ramana wrote:Why is it that only INC sees coup mirages or halucinations? The Janata Party, United (Af)Front nor the NDA had such fears.


The wicked man fleeth, when no man pursueth

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Philip » 07 Apr 2012 10:59

Igzackly what I said earlier ! The list of def. firms blacklisted by the "Saint" could very well be at work behind the scenes right ow in this affair,especially if "millions" are paid out for mere meetings arranged with the Def. MIn.!

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 11:18

ramana wrote:I think you are seeing too much. Should get away from the monitor.

But can we totally discount the "balkanization" of thoughts that seems to be taking place?

Other day there was a report in a newspaper that in Kerala all print media is supporting Antony and making VKS a villain.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 11:25

abhijitm wrote:More I think and analyze more I come to conclusion that this all is about AKA. Someone is portraying MoD and Army is completely out of his control and he is responsible for this so called "mess".

VKS has mere 2 mths to retire. what is someone gioing to achieve by targetting him? Any sober person knows that no coup was intended. So by telling such story no one is going to criticise the army chief but the entire section of media, ex military, opposition will hound for the blood of MoD, means AKA. And the sly people will mix their voice in them.

Are we falling pray for this tactic? Or I am completely way off the target here?

You are off target and so are some journalists like Josy Joseph who wrote a similar piece in TOI today.

Think about the Tatra scam. Known to Antony since 2009 (when Azad, Ghulam Nabi wrote to him) and later from his own COAS in 2010.

What does Anthony do? A big *ZERO*.

If Antony was indeed interested in fighting corruption he should have accepted General VKS's correct Date of Birth and acted upon all corruption news that he heard.

Accepting correct DOB would have really stymied these traitors who suck money out of our country for their personal gains.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 11:41

ramana wrote:ChackoJoseph, Could you have defended AKA like Philip did!


See, I did not say sorry for what I said. Like I have dual role journo/jingo, you too have dual role mod/jingo. Anything coming from you will carry same reasoning you directed on me.

However, this is not a complain, just a perspective. IMHO, you have been fair on your dealings with me.

As someone said, the entire object of these attacks are directed at AKA. I have finished my reasoning that there is no issue with AkA and VKS. VKS didn't mean to hurt AKA. AKA doesn't allow corruption etc. The corruption stems from babudom and he has to deal with the babudom quagmire, which is not easy. Ministers come and go , but babus remain there and have developed systems for hoodwinking.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 12:56

chackojoseph wrote:
As someone said, the entire object of these attacks are directed at AKA.

As usual this is your highly biased POV. Why would Antony sit on and do nothing about Ghulam Nabi Azad's 2009 letter pointing out TATRA's loot of the country and then General VKS's disclosure of attempted bribe for the same TATRA trucks in 2010?

IMHO Josy Joseph's piece follows exactly what you have been writing here in the last few days and there is just no logic to it.

If Antony was this great corruption buster why did he take no action against Tatra?

Or if he did take action against Tatra on Azad's letter, as some in your camp might think/claim, why did he ask General VKS to "act on" the complaint himself in 2010?

It is very clear that Antony heard about the Tatra corruption multiple times from 2009 and did nothing.

How this leaves him honest and his followers claims that he is honest is beyond imagination.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Dhiman » 07 Apr 2012 13:10

We had some economic reforms in early nineties (and that too under IMF pressure) as a result of which we are getting by (at least not defaulting on loan payments etc). Otherwise the state of affairs in the country is pretty bad and governance is almost non existent.

I hope such news continues to come out, so that the population gets out of the delusion it has been living in, because we certainly can't expect the corrupt and the anti nationals to be put in jail (as 2g and commonwealth scams have shown)

But why blame the netas and babus - I mean most of the voters vote for their candidates based on cast (even if that neta happens to be a full fledged criminal).

What do you expect when lok sabha is the place in the country where you would find the highest concentration of criminals ( barring jails) - I mean are these criiminals voted in with the expectation that they will provide clean and good governance?
Last edited by Dhiman on 07 Apr 2012 13:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 13:24

peter wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:
As someone said, the entire object of these attacks are directed at AKA.

As usual this is your highly biased POV. Why would Antony sit on and do nothing about Ghulam Nabi Azad's 2009 letter pointing out TATRA's loot of the country and then General VKS's disclosure of attempted bribe for the same TATRA trucks in 2010?

IMHO Josy Joseph's piece follows exactly what you have been writing here in the last few days and there is just no logic to it.

If Antony was this great corruption buster why did he take no action against Tatra?

Or if he did take action against Tatra on Azad's letter, as some in your camp might think/claim, why did he ask General VKS to "act on" the complaint himself in 2010?

It is very clear that Antony heard about the Tatra corruption multiple times from 2009 and did nothing.

How this leaves him honest and his followers claims that he is honest is beyond imagination.


I have time and again repeated here. You have a vested interest. You do not read posts and replies. You keep asking same questions again and again and again. You do not even believe VKS words but ue them when it suits you. You do not know what actions have been taken by AKA on Azad's letter, even though it has been said for more than a week.

Anyone who writes against AKA is gospel for you, Anyone who writes for AKA is indoctrinated.

AKA is honest and there are no "camps" here.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Dhiman » 07 Apr 2012 13:32

chackojoseph wrote:AKA is honest and there are no "camps" here.


Maybe, but that is so old fashioned these days. I mean honest people have been living among the corrupt for ages now while keeping their eyes and ears shut - perfectly useless way to live. At least the corrupt is making money.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 13:33

ramana wrote:Its PC running the campaign. All allegations come from MHA ass ets. He doesnt want any alternates.


ramana,

Take a guess who could be the next 'soft spoken honest' PM vs hope fulls.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 13:38

peter wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:
As someone said, the entire object of these attacks are directed at AKA.

As usual this is your highly biased POV. Why would Antony sit on and do nothing about Ghulam Nabi Azad's 2009 letter pointing out TATRA's loot of the country and then General VKS's disclosure of attempted bribe for the same TATRA trucks in 2010?

IMHO Josy Joseph's piece follows exactly what you have been writing here in the last few days and there is just no logic to it.

If Antony was this great corruption buster why did he take no action against Tatra?

Or if he did take action against Tatra on Azad's letter, as some in your camp might think/claim, why did he ask General VKS to "act on" the complaint himself in 2010?

It is very clear that Antony heard about the Tatra corruption multiple times from 2009 and did nothing.

How this leaves him honest and his followers claims that he is honest is beyond imagination.


Chacko's words:
chackojoseph wrote:You do not know what actions have been taken by AKA on Azad's letter, even though it has been said for more than a week.


Antony's own words in 2012 (From: http://www.rediff.com/news/column/who-is-responsible-for-embarrassments-facing-govt/20120328.htm
The defence minister also accepted that he held his head in his hands in utter bewilderment when the COAS told him as much.


Does a man who "held his head in his hands in utter bewilderment" in 2010 when General VKS apprised him of the bribe seem capable to have ordered "action" on Ghulam Nabi's letter of 2009 as Chacko wants us to believe?

Nah.

So whom do you believe? Chacko camps gospel or Antony?
Last edited by peter on 07 Apr 2012 13:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 13:40

Dhiman wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:AKA is honest and there are no "camps" here.


Maybe, but that is so old fashioned these days. I mean honest people have been living among the corrupt for ages now while keeping their eyes and ears shut - perfectly useless way to live. At least the corrupt is making money.


Well question is if you have your head in the sand does that make you less or more culpable?

Was Dhritrasthra at fault or not?

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 13:45

Dhiman wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:AKA is honest and there are no "camps" here.


Maybe, but that is so old fashioned these days. I mean honest people have been living among the corrupt for ages now while keeping their eyes and ears shut - perfectly useless way to live. At least the corrupt is making money.


No, he doesn't. All sorts of face savings are being used my media and this is one of them.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 13:51

peter wrote:As usual this is your highly biased POV. Why would Antony sit on and do nothing about Ghulam Nabi Azad's 2009 letter pointing out TATRA's loot of the country and then General VKS's disclosure of attempted bribe for the same TATRA trucks in 2010?

IMHO Josy Joseph's piece follows exactly what you have been writing here in the last few days and there is just no logic to it.

If Antony was this great corruption buster why did he take no action against Tatra?

Or if he did take action against Tatra on Azad's letter, as some in your camp might think/claim, why did he ask General VKS to "act on" the complaint himself in 2010?

It is very clear that Antony heard....

Does a man who "held his head in his hands in utter bewilderment" in 2010 when General VKS apprised him of the bribe seem capable to have ordered "action" on Ghulam Nabi's letter of 2009 as Chacko wants us to believe?

Nah.

So whom do you believe? Chacko camps gospel or Antony?


Hahahha. Clear your browser cache. IMHO, you are reading from a week old cache. Or atleast, clear your mind's cache. As I said, you have vested interest.

Also, the Josy Joseph article is by lined by "Rajat Pandit".

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 14:21

chackojoseph wrote:
peter wrote:As usual this is your highly biased POV. Why would Antony sit on and do nothing about Ghulam Nabi Azad's 2009 letter pointing out TATRA's loot of the country and then General VKS's disclosure of attempted bribe for the same TATRA trucks in 2010?

IMHO Josy Joseph's piece follows exactly what you have been writing here in the last few days and there is just no logic to it.

If Antony was this great corruption buster why did he take no action against Tatra?

Or if he did take action against Tatra on Azad's letter, as some in your camp might think/claim, why did he ask General VKS to "act on" the complaint himself in 2010?

It is very clear that Antony heard....

Does a man who "held his head in his hands in utter bewilderment" in 2010 when General VKS apprised him of the bribe seem capable to have ordered "action" on Ghulam Nabi's letter of 2009 as Chacko wants us to believe?

Nah.

So whom do you believe? Chacko camps gospel or Antony?


Hahahha. Clear your browser cache. IMHO, you are reading from a week old cache. Or atleast, clear your mind's cache. As I said, you have vested interest.

Also, the Josy Joseph article is by lined by "Rajat Pandit".


Are you suggesting that the rediff article, since it belongs to week old cache, somehow does'nt correctly portray Antony's comments about holding his head in his hands?

You never answer anything and I honestly don't think you can because you have already made up your mind though fact is Josy and you are a cosy group. Highlighting a Pandit in the mix serves a purpose I am sure.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 14:26

peter wrote:You never answer anything and I honestly don't think you can because you have already made up your mind though fact is Josy and you are a cosy group. Highlighting a Pandit in the mix serves a purpose I am sure.


Whats the point. You never read anything written. I have repeatedly said that, but you have not read that.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby peter » 07 Apr 2012 17:36

chackojoseph wrote:
peter wrote:You never answer anything and I honestly don't think you can because you have already made up your mind though fact is Josy and you are a cosy group. Highlighting a Pandit in the mix serves a purpose I am sure.


Whats the point. You never read anything written. I have repeatedly said that, but you have not read that.


The point is you can't answer a direct question. Take this current debate. You skirted the direct question, yet again, by saying rediff is a week old cache. Though whatever is written on rediff about Antony is from Antony's mouth!

Just to prove me wrong or yourself right why don't you indulge us and tell us what action did Antony take on Azad's letter and why he clutched his head when VKS broached the bribe issue with him?

It is a direct question!!!

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby chackojoseph » 07 Apr 2012 18:13

The Azad's letter and the action has been discussed a page or two and another back. Why don't you read those? So, why the need for this direct question?

Why He clutched his head, why Josy joseph wrote that etc are the questions you should ask them. I am not their spokesman.

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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Muppalla » 07 Apr 2012 18:26

Revealed: The real story behind CBI's Tatra probe

Picking my steps carefully through the debris of Tatragate, there seem to be a couple of areas where there is lack of informed opinion and a third where there is a lot of misinformation.

Specifically, who was in charge when the Tatra deal was struck, how did the CBI get on Ravi Rishi's track with such impressive speed, and where do matters now stand between the Union defence minister and the chief of the the army staff?

The answer to the first question is that the Tatra agreement was signed in the Rajiv Gandhi era. What is more, it might have happened at a time when the then prime minister was simultaneously holding the defence portfolio.

To go back a quarter of a century in time, V P Singh was abruptly shunted out, for whatever reason, from the finance ministry in January 1987, and thrust into the defence ministry. He lasted barely two-and-a-half months in his new post, resigning -- or being forced to resign -- in April 1987.

In a delicious irony, the reason was that he had, reportedly without keeping Rajiv Gandhi in the loop, ordered an investigation into the purchase of HDW submarines from Germany . This was resented by the Congress -- then still called the 'Congress (Indira)' -- because the investigation seemingly called Indira Gandhi to account; the agreement was signed in 1981 when the Congress matriarch ruled India .

Be that as it may, Rajiv Gandhi then took over the defence ministry temporarily. It was a masterpiece of poor timing; literally days after V P Singh's leaving, a Swedish radio station broke the news of the Bofors scandal, and Rajiv Gandhi's image never recovered.

Speaking of Bofors, during the heyday of the scandal one of the Congress's chief talking points was that Rajiv Gandhi had taken the initiative to bar middlemen from anything related to defence procurement. Remember this point, it is important.

Twenty-five years ago a defence minister known as 'Mr Clean' got into trouble for probing a deal that was struck by a previous government, one in which the prime minister was an iconic figure in the Congress. Was it Mark Twain that said, 'History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme'?

We must now come to the second issue, the alacrity with which the CBI is pursuing Tatragate.

Some reports suggest this happened because of General V K Singh's interview by The Hindu. This is wrong.


Some others say the credit should go to Dr Hanumanthappa, a Congress MP from Karnataka , who wrote to several people, intimating that something was wrong with the Tatra deal. This too is wrong.

However, we should look a little into the Hanumanthappa episode. In 2009 Dr Hanumanthappa complained about alleged misdoings in the public sector undertaking Bharat Earth Movers Ltd [ Get Quote ], BEML. It is not quite clear how Hanumanthappa got to hear, but BEML is based in Bengaluru , and Hanumanthappa himself has trade union links of old, so the workers at BEML might have let something slip.

Hanumanthappa complained that the Tatra trucks were not being purchased from the original manufacturer, but through intermediaries, who included Bharat Earth Movers Ltd and Vectra (in London ). This violates the defence procurement rules quoted so often and so loudly by the Congress in the Bofors era.

I am not sure if any recipient got the message. Hanumanthappa spent several pages in general complaints before coming to the central point in, I think, the fourth paragraph of the fifth page (or something like that).

Hanumanthappa's letter reached Sonia Gandhi , who, rather peculiarly, handed it to Ghulam Nabi Azad . (The Congress's rationale is that he is the Congress functionary in charge of party affairs in Karnataka, but a defence deal is scarcely a party issue.) At any rate, in October 2009 the letter found its way into A K Antony's office.

The defence minister did not ignore the letter, and asked for the matter to be probed. But A K Antony then made a mistake, he did not pursue the matter, something that he himself would openly admit as an error. (As far as I know, Hanumanthappa has still not received a proper response!)

How do you forget allegations of a multi-crore deal? The fact is that A K Antony's office receives something like ten letters a week, all alleging corruption. That works out to better than an allegation a day on average, holidays included.

But if it was neither General V K Singh's interview nor the Hanumanthappa letter that did the trick, what stirred the CBI into action?

Very simply, the CBI, like the tax authorities, looks into matters if it receives 'credible evidence'. This was one of those cases, and behind the scenes the investigators built their case without any fuss. And on February 21, 2012, if I have the date correct, the minister gave the sanction to prosecute.

Please note the date, it was about five weeks before General V K Singh's explosive interview. Note too that the sanction was given not just to 'investigate' but to 'prosecute'.


So, why did the CBI wait to go after Ravi Rishi, the man behind Vectra?

It has been wrongly reported in the media that Ravi Rishi is an 'NRI', a 'Non-Resident Indian'. The fact is that he is not an Indian at all, but a citizen of the United Kingdom. You could describe him as a 'PIO', a 'Person of Indian Origin', but he is not an 'NRI'. And trying to extradite a British citizen from Great Britain is difficult at the best of times.

But the CBI also knew that 'Defexpo 2012' was scheduled to start on March 29. India is one of the world's largest defence equipment importers, and it was extremely unlikely that any manufacturer would refuse to visit.

Sensibly, the CBI waited a few days until Ravi Rishi was in India, and available for questioning. That is how it reacted with such speed -- because it was already on the case.

How about the news items saying that the defence minister ordered a probe only after General Singh's interview? That investigation concerns only the specific allegation of bribery brought out in the chief of the army staff's interview, the CBI was already probing Tatragate.


This brings up the last topic -- the one that seems to interest the chatterboxes in Delhi the most -- namely how A K Antony and V K Singh get along.

The defence minister and the chief of the army staff are never going to be mistaken for bosom buddies, but they both have great respect for each other. Each sincerely believes in the other man's integrity, and also that the man across the table wants to do well by India. In other words, the foundation for a healthy professional relationship has always existed -- and continues to exist.

Frankly, this third issue is, at least to me, rather a banal topic. It is, one suspects, a smokescreen to divert attention from the mechanics of the Tatra deal, particularly how and why intermediaries were used when middlemen are barred from defence procurement matters.

But 'A K Antony vs V K Singh' makes the better headline, and there shall probably be more such 'diversions' to come courtesy of 'rogue elements'!


Eric Leiderman
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Eric Leiderman » 07 Apr 2012 21:06

We have an Army Chief who is outstanding. These sort of gentlemen come along maybe once a generation.(Admiral Bhagat said something on these lines a few days back)

By some fluke we also have a defence minister who is not lining his pockets. Between these 2 indivudals they have got
the arms dealers on the backfoot. Anthony is good,( he is far from perfect,)
If replaced, his replacement will most probably be a lot worse.(R.Choudhary maybe?)
If this duo could have been in place one more year , without internal rifts, the mindset in the minisrty might have changed.
The cartel knew this and they have won the battle, The Army chief is going one year earlier,With all the hoola goola Anthony might be moved too.

Yes (partly) because of Anthony we have lost out on some important ones, 155/guns, training aircraft,to name a few.
However the new deals being signed seem to be squeeky clean. Remember Anthony is a politician he has to look after the khoorsi,
he has to hold his head in his hands ,because he does not have control over the allegations made by the chief. He knows about them too, but politically is helpless.
He wants to be squeeky clean personally, and squeek into the presidents office ,so no ripples.
Chacko is a journilist his bread and butter is getting access to people. If he were to get too candid his sources would dry up.So cut him some slack. We arm chair generals are a tough bunch.
Last edited by Eric Leiderman on 07 Apr 2012 21:13, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 07 Apr 2012 21:08

on another note The Week magazine says Pranabda is leading INC choice to be next president so they have a cool player in the seat to "manage the results of the 2014 elections"

koti
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby koti » 07 Apr 2012 22:47

Food for thought.
Link

Antony possibly being targeted by Arms lobbies.

Roperia
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Roperia » 08 Apr 2012 02:53

Now we're talking! Congress has always chosen their short term benefits over the disastrous consequences this country has had to face because of their communal politics.

PIL alleges communal angle to Army chief General VK Singh's age row

NEW DELHI: The row over the affairs of the Army and its equations with the government continues to turn murkier, with a PIL in the Supreme Court alleging a "communal conspiracy behind" the rejection of Army chief General VK Singh's claim for revision of his date of birth.

The PIL, filed by retired Navy chief L Ramdas, former chief election commissioner N Gopalaswami, three senior former Army officials and others, say that ex-Army chief JJ Singh, currently the governor of Arunchal Pradesh, masterminded " Operation Moses" to clear the way for Lt Gen Bikram Singh to succeed Gen VK Singh.

The PIL challenging Lt Gen Bikram Singh's appointment, which has been submitted to the SC registry, has said the Arunachal governor enjoyed blessings from the highest level, and that was why the conspiracy against Gen VK Singh succeeded even when he enjoyed the sympathies of defence minister AK Antony.
...
Bikram Singh, who is the Army chief-designate, would not have taken the top rank in the force if the incumbent's plea for the revision of his age had been accepted: something that would have extended Gen VK Singh's tenure to May 31, 2013.

The damning charges in the PIL, including the alleged communal dimension of the "plot" to deny VK Singh an extended tenure, were confirmed by petitioner's counsel, senior lawyer Kamini Jaiswal. "It is unfortunate yet true that the present day politicians have succeeded in dividing all institutions on communal lines. The PIL has placed facts before the court and it is for the court to arrive at a conclusion and save the country," Jaiswal said.

The disclosure of the sensational charge followed the stunning allegation by VK Singh that "rogue elements in bureaucracy" concocted an impression of muscle flexing by his supporters to drive a wedge between him and the government. Explaining why a routine exercise was painted as a coercive attempt to force government's hands, the Army chief even went on to refer to a newspaper report that had blamed an unnamed Union minister of orchestrating the impression of a crisis: a first for a serving chief.

The petition arguing for scrapping Bikram Singh's appointment as chief of Army staff, harps on the role of someone at the top in determining the line of succession that favored the chief-designate. It says that there were "constant references to orders from above", while Antony would acknowledge that his hands were tied.

The petitioners claim that there were "constant reference to 'orders from above'" remains baffling. "Gen JJ Singh, despite being the chief architect of the 'line of succession', was the Arunachal governor with no direct authority over the defence minister," the PIL says, when discussing how this particular decision ensure Bikram Singh becomes the Army chief.

"Orders from above virtually gave the bureaucrats in the ministry licence to flex muscle; a series of selected leaks began to paint Gen V K Singh as a conniving officer who was desperate to gain an additional 10 months in office, either by hook or by crook," allege the petitioners.

They claim that Antony "repeatedly let it be known that though he sympathized with General VK Singh, his 'hands were tied' in the matter and that the pre-determined line of succession had to be maintained at all costs."

The petitioners have alleged Bikram Singh is facing a case in the J&K high court in an alleged case of fake encounter and that his lack of control over Indian peacekeeping force in Congo when the sex scandal broke out is still under probe, claiming that his appointment should not be approved on the same ground on which PJ Thomas was removed as the CVC.


uddu
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby uddu » 08 Apr 2012 07:59

Be very careful about Ramdas. He will be there wherever there are Pakis. In every Bappi-Jappi meet of Pakis and Pseudos this person is there.

Rony
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Rony » 08 Apr 2012 08:12

Ramdas may be a.hole but the contents of the PIL are bang on the target.

Dilbu
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Re: Indian Army : News and Discussion

Postby Dilbu » 08 Apr 2012 10:41

Karan Thapar demolishes Shekhar Gupta's fantastical "scoop"
No surprises here
Second, the story relies on slender, if not improbable, detail. How can the movement of two units, totalling at the most 1,400 soldiers, presage a coup? By some counts there are already 10,000 soldiers in and around Delhi. If General VK Singh was planning one, he had enough manpower at hand. He didn't need this insignificant addition.

Third, the story hinges on an order that does not exist. It asks: "Why was the well-set protocol, that any military movement, at any time, in the NCR (National Capital Region) has to be pre-notified to MoD (Ministry of Defence) not followed?" It's the alleged violation of this order that is the clinching suggestion of mischief. But as a former chief, a former Director General Military Operations (DGMO) and a former defence secretary have confirmed - and the present defence secretary, too - there is no such order. So, it follows, there was no violation of it. Hence, no mischief.

Fourth, it relies on certain 'facts' to convince you that the government panicked. It says the defence minister was alerted late at night, the PM "at the crack of dawn" and the defence secretary asked to cut short his visit to Malaysia and, on return, "opened his office late at night" and asked the DGMO for an explanation. We have no proof of this. We simply have to accept it.


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