Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Singha » 18 Apr 2012 22:51

Shukla sir's website has a interesting article on upcoming Indo-US defence dialogue incl javelin, global hawk and some IED detection techs.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 18 Apr 2012 22:52

interestingly during this period of army vs government, a potentially huge issue has been brewing in china involving top politicians, the party, the army, murdered british "business man" and wild rumours of attempted coups and purges
interesting timing?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 19 Apr 2012 02:26

Bade, is there a way to compare the weather in Kashmir this year to the weather in 1999? Are there early snow melts like in that year? Is the temperature similar?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Katare » 19 Apr 2012 21:13

Ankit Desai wrote:Govt acts on General VK Singh's complaint, fast-tracks acquisition of weapons

It was also decided that another empowered committee would be set up on the lines of the one for the Siachen Glacier, under the Army vice-chief, to speed up acquisition of specialized equipment for the 10 battalions of Special Forces tasked for clandestine warfare deep behind enemy lines.


Acquisitions:

1. 4th regiment of BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles for Rs 4,100 crore.
2. Two regiments of Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for Rs 2,136 crore.
3. 10,000 Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles for Rs 1,223 crore from Russia.
4. 10,000 3UBK-Invar missiles for T-90S tanks for Rs 1,386 crore from Russia.
5. 15,000 3UBK-Invar missiles for T-90S tanks for Rs 2,079 crore from Bharat Dynamics.
6. 66,000 "armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot'' tank shells for Rs 1,386 crore.
7. Two troops of Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) for Rs 1,200 crore from Israel.
8. 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers for $ 647 million from US.


-Ankit


From BDL annual earnings (director's) report-

BDL produced ~1700 Konkurs-M and ~2000 Invar missiles last year worth (Rs650 Corer). This year's target is ~50% higher than last year. What is the need for buying additional missiles from Russia? BDL is meeting and exceeding the tragets it has been given, where is the need for import?

Army/MoD screwed up by not giving large enough orders and now want's to cover incompetence with imports. Even after ToT and established production lines they have to import stuff from OEM.

Only upside is that Army realized it's mistake of piece-meal purchases and gave Akash orders worth Rs 14K corer in one go.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 21 Apr 2012 17:54

Court to pronounce order on defamation plea against Army chief

A Delhi court today reserved for April 26 its order on summoning Army Chief Gen V K Singh and four others named as accused in a criminal defamation case filed by former Lt Gen Tejinder Singh who had denied having made Rs 14 crore bribe offer to him to strike a defence deal.

Metropolitan Magistrate (MM) Jasjeet Kaur reserved the order on the criminal complaint after Tejinder Singh's counsel said that his client had already recorded his statement and pre-summoning evidence in support of his complaint.

Metropolitan Magistrate Sudesh Kumar, who had on April 10 reserved the order on Tejinder Singh's complaint, did not hold proceedings today as he was attending a training session and the matter was listed for hearing by MM Kaur.

Tejinder Singh, a former director general of Defence Intelligence Agency, had filed defamation complaint against the Army chief and four other Army officials trashing the allegations that he had offered the bribe for clearing a deal for 600 "sub-standard" vehicles.

Besides the Army chief, he has named Vice Chief of Army Staff S K Singh, Lt Gen B S Thakur (DG MI), Major General S L Narshiman (Additional Director General of Public Information) and Lt Col Hitten Sawhney posted in the media cell, accusing them of misusing their official positions, power and authority to level false charges against him.

Tejinder Singh had contended that all the five formed a direct chain of command with the Army chief being the final arbiter.


During the last hearing, he had said the allegation against him of having offered bribe on behalf of Tatra and Vectra Ltd, which supplies vehicles to BEML was absolutely "false, ill-founded and concocted."


Since Matter is now with CBI investigating bribery charges, defamation suite has no locus standi.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Austin » 22 Apr 2012 14:06

India Today

Shooting in the dark- Tatra truck deal has blown the lid off a shadowy world of arms dealers
Antony secures home front
Long road to acquisition

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Austin » 22 Apr 2012 16:05

We need to upgrade our Bofors L70 guns with Flycatcher Radar and 3P rounds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wewaCdSW4yc

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nelson » 22 Apr 2012 16:12

An excerpt of a questionnaire that CBI has prepared for its investigation in TATRA Scam? May be ...or... may be not?

http://canarytrap.in/2012/04/21/more-qu ... ry+Trap%29

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_22906 » 22 Apr 2012 16:37

^^
Can be also used as a very effective anti-infantry weapon in direct fire mode. Was used extensively in Bosnia IIRC

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Nikhil T » 23 Apr 2012 12:41

More court hearings:

SC seeks file on Lt Bikram Singh appointment


New Delhi: The Supreme Court has asked the Centre to submit the file pertaining to the appointment of Lieutenant General Bikram Singh as the next chief of the Indian Army.

The directive by the top court comes in the wake of a controversy surrounding Lt Gen's Singh's candidature as the next Army Chief. A Public Interest Litigation (PIL) filed in the Supreme Court says that the Army chief-designate was involved in a fake encounter in 2001.

The court, while ordering the government to submit the file at 2 pm, has sought to know whether the appointment committee considered the allegations against Lt Gen Singh while deciding to appoint him as the next Army Chief.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Murugan » 23 Apr 2012 14:03

SC Questions Appointment DNA Reports

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sc ... ef_1679545

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 23 Apr 2012 14:48

Writ petition against appointment of Gen BS dismissed by SC without affecting proceedings pending in other courts.


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rahulm » 24 Apr 2012 15:37

How exactly are air cooled engines a disadvantage?

Air cooled engines are less complex. They do away with the need for cooling medium, the radiator and allied bits. 1 system less to maintain and worry about in war. They don't develop leaks in the cooling system, do not need anti-freeze and do not run out of coolant.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanjay » 24 Apr 2012 18:27

Austin, We already have upgraded the L-70/40 units with Flycatcher and its local variant the PIW-519.

The upgrades now sought are an optronic pedastal, an increased cyclic rate and perhaps a faster feed for ammunition. Add to that PFHE ammunition is being manufactured locally and the L-70 has some life yet.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby d_berwal » 24 Apr 2012 19:06

rahulm wrote:How exactly are air cooled engines a disadvantage?

Air cooled engines are less complex. They do away with the need for cooling medium, the radiator and allied bits. 1 system less to maintain and worry about in war. They don't develop leaks in the cooling system, do not need anti-freeze and do not run out of coolant.


well the problem is not air cooled engines,

the engines we have for tatra are EURO 1 and 2 series where as these have been phased out in rest of the world long time back, basically the tatra we have the 8x8 and 6x6 and 4x4 versions are the ones which are outdated in terms of technology.

where as the 10x 10 and 12x 12 versions are of the lasted versions (basically used for missile carriers)

The money we have been paying for 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 versions would have got us the latest 815 series 7 versions with couple of years worth of spares included.

In fact the engines which we are suppose to make for tatra are no more in production anywhere else.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby d_berwal » 24 Apr 2012 19:15

Katare wrote:
From BDL annual earnings (director's) report-

BDL produced ~1700 Konkurs-M and ~2000 Invar missiles last year worth (Rs650 Corer). This year's target is ~50% higher than last year. What is the need for buying additional missiles from Russia? BDL is meeting and exceeding the tragets it has been given, where is the need for import?

Army/MoD screwed up by not giving large enough orders and now want's to cover incompetence with imports. Even after ToT and established production lines they have to import stuff from OEM.

Only upside is that Army realized it's mistake of piece-meal purchases and gave Akash orders worth Rs 14K corer in one go.


even if large orders were give the the production capacity is not even enough for training purposes.

1700 konkurs a year for 2000+ BMP II and similar amount of FLAME launcher versions (man portable and light vehicle mounted.)

assuming 50% gunners of BMP II fire one missile a year for practice the production + Missile fired in exercises and demos + fired in training of man portable version we are well short of training needs leav aside the war reserves.

Same is the case of Invar missiles,
In fact the consumption of Invar is more as T-90 regiments are in conversion where on an average each Gunner would end up firing 5-6 minimum. + the field firing needs + the exerciser and training needs.

The need for import is there as the targets for production of BDL are not even equal to training needs of IA.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby peter » 25 Apr 2012 05:28

Many problems with Tatra trucks. Not only with the ones used by the Army but also the Air Force ones.

Would anyone know if this is new or has been happening as VKS claimed?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Complaints-pile-up-against-Tatra-trucks/articleshow/12860966.cms

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby srai » 25 Apr 2012 06:26

Katare wrote:quote="Ankit Desai"]Govt acts on General VK Singh's complaint, fast-tracks acquisition of weapons

It was also decided that another empowered committee would be set up on the lines of the one for the Siachen Glacier, under the Army vice-chief, to speed up acquisition of specialized equipment for the 10 battalions of Special Forces tasked for clandestine warfare deep behind enemy lines.


Acquisitions:

1. 4th regiment of BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles for Rs 4,100 crore.
2. Two regiments of Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for Rs 2,136 crore.
3. 10,000 Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles for Rs 1,223 crore from Russia.
4. 10,000 3UBK-Invar missiles for T-90S tanks for Rs 1,386 crore from Russia.
5. 15,000 3UBK-Invar missiles for T-90S tanks for Rs 2,079 crore from Bharat Dynamics.
6. 66,000 "armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot'' tank shells for Rs 1,386 crore.
7. Two troops of Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) for Rs 1,200 crore from Israel.
8. 145 M-777 ultra-light howitzers for $ 647 million from US.


-Ankit[/quote

From BDL annual earnings (director's) report-

BDL produced ~1700 Konkurs-M and ~2000 Invar missiles last year worth (Rs650 Corer). This year's target is ~50% higher than last year. What is the need for buying additional missiles from Russia? BDL is meeting and exceeding the tragets it has been given, where is the need for import?

Army/MoD screwed up by not giving large enough orders and now want's to cover incompetence with imports. Even after ToT and established production lines they have to import stuff from OEM.

Only upside is that Army realized it's mistake of piece-meal purchases and gave Akash orders worth Rs 14K corer in one go.


Poor planning :!:

The IA has a history of not ordering in bulk but in a piecemeal manner. This is not efficient for manufactures as they require a certain amount of investment, capacity building, acquisition of raw materials/parts and assembly time from them to deliver. A bulk order spanning multiple years is a must.

For a number of years, the IA had to return "unused" funds allocated to it. So there is definitely some breakdown on acquisition and materials management if there are huge inventory issues--that too for main platforms like the T-90S.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 25 Apr 2012 07:08

srai

only issue in this case we do not know if MOD or finance did not allow larger orders or scribbled questions on the files and sent them back

I have seen a 5 crore order being sent back with nonsense like this (it had 10 additional numbers of a specialized equipment as spares)

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vic » 25 Apr 2012 10:15

Katare wrote:From BDL annual earnings (director's) report-

BDL produced ~1700 Konkurs-M and ~2000 Invar missiles last year worth (Rs650 Corer). This year's target is ~50% higher than last year. What is the need for buying additional missiles from Russia? BDL is meeting and exceeding the tragets it has been given, where is the need for import?

Army/MoD screwed up by not giving large enough orders and now want's to cover incompetence with imports. Even after ToT and established production lines they have to import stuff from OEM.

Only upside is that Army realized it's mistake of piece-meal purchases and gave Akash orders worth Rs 14K corer in one go.


Probably the so called manufacture by BDL is assembly of imported components

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vic » 25 Apr 2012 10:20

d_berwal wrote:
rahulm wrote:How exactly are air cooled engines a disadvantage?

Air cooled engines are less complex. They do away with the need for cooling medium, the radiator and allied bits. 1 system less to maintain and worry about in war. They don't develop leaks in the cooling system, do not need anti-freeze and do not run out of coolant.


well the problem is not air cooled engines,

the engines we have for tatra are EURO 1 and 2 series where as these have been phased out in rest of the world long time back, basically the tatra we have the 8x8 and 6x6 and 4x4 versions are the ones which are outdated in terms of technology.

where as the 10x 10 and 12x 12 versions are of the lasted versions (basically used for missile carriers)

The money we have been paying for 4x4, 6x6 and 8x8 versions would have got us the latest 815 series 7 versions with couple of years worth of spares included.

In fact the engines which we are suppose to make for tatra are no more in production anywhere else.


I thought that Kirloskar was manufactering the engines for TATRAs?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rahulm » 25 Apr 2012 11:38

Here is an anecdote.

BEML had sent a TATRA to Ruston (Greaves)-Pune to re-engine with an indigenous engine. A locally made MWM V6 multi fuel, turbo-intercooled was successfully retrofitted and trialed.

After the trial, matters did not proceed because BEML deemed the engine expensive. With the whole ongoing TATRA affair, how ironic. :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 25 Apr 2012 12:15

^^^Of course, how could they have allowed 'expensive engine'....after all BEML was making windfall profits by indulging in screwdriver-giri!!!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nelson » 25 Apr 2012 18:05

The happenings at the top is a sad commentary on the state of affairs.
In continuation of the sequence of events...

Tejinder Singh moves SC against Army Chief

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby keshavchandra » 25 Apr 2012 18:46

nelson wrote:The happenings at the top is a sad commentary on the state of affairs.
In continuation of the sequence of events...

Tejinder Singh moves SC against Army Chief

Tejinder S's comment on vks seems like a frustrated guy. :D

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nelson » 25 Apr 2012 19:15

^It is believed in official circles in South Block that the Govt itself will file case against VKS on similar lines, when he demits office (ie, if the govt survives till then).

...but the comment of 'frustration' would be apt for the govt too.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ShauryaT » 25 Apr 2012 22:47

rahulm wrote:Here is an anecdote.

BEML had sent a TATRA to Ruston (Greaves)-Pune to re-engine with an indigenous engine. A locally made MWM V6 multi fuel, turbo-intercooled was successfully retrofitted and trialed.

After the trial, matters did not proceed because BEML deemed the engine expensive. With the whole ongoing TATRA affair, how ironic. :rotfl:
And then we expect private players to invest in this area!! :cry:


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sum » 26 Apr 2012 09:02

Army's comm software is virus-prone

The Army's sensitive Command and Information Decision Support System (CIDSS), which is employed during war-time operations, has been found to be vulnerable to virus and trojan attacks and potential hackers.

The CIDSS, named Operation Samvahak, is a software project based on the web and has a database that operates on a number of networked servers and clients. Documents available with Deccan Herald indicate that Bangalore-based defence public sector undertaking Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL), which was awarded the Rs 140-crore contract by the Army's Directorate General of Information System (DGIS), did not “provide services as per the provisions of the contract.”


rmy sources said although the CIDSS system is not classified, it assumes that status once critical, top secret information is uploaded. The disruption was noticed across several Army field units in Fazilka, Suratgarh, Kota and Jaipur among others in the western sector which is one of the important commands.

What is alarming is that about 116 performance certificates generated over the past two years at the field-level units were suppressed, preventing the matter from being investigated by Army headquarters.

Even when the CIDSS was operationalised in a limited way, virus attacks were noticed, making the system “unstable” and forcing personnel of the technical group of the Electronics and Mechanical Engineers (EME) who subsequently had to refeed the data.

The purchase order for the software for phase-1 of the project was issued by the Army to BEL and the Defence Research and Development Organisation's Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR) in 2006. After the project was outsourced to two other firms, Tata Elxi Ltd and YM Tech Pvt Ltd, it was implemented on a pilot basis in Punjab and Rajasthan.

Although phase-1 was declared complete in 2010, the CIDSS system was far from effective because it was based on the old Windows 2000, updates of which are hardly available today. Besides, no anti-virus or firewall was provided, making the system ‘highly vulnerable to virus and trojans.’
:shock:

Once the warranty and extended warranty of the system expired in September 2010, the Army again awarded BEL the annual maintenance contract (AMC) in June 2011 for a year, at an estimated cost of Rs six crore. Through limited tendering, BEL in turn transferred the entire AMC to a third party civilian vendor, MSM Networks Enterprises, for slightly over Rs three crore.

In 2011, the Army also negotiated with BEL to provide suitable antivirus for the CIDSS, but it was only in the fourth quarter of the AMC that the defence PSU made available a few ‘QUICKHEAL’ antivirus whose market price could not have exceeded Rs one lakh. Sources disclosed that no indigenous action was taken to thwart cyber threats to the system.
:eek: :eek:
The Army, however, continued to battle an unstable system that required frequent server formatting, re-installation and re-feeding of data as BEL even failed to provide backup support and maintenance / repair work cover within the stipulated time frame as agreed in the AMC.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Gurneesh » 26 Apr 2012 19:09

^^^^ How pathetic

1) They should have used linux or better a unix based system as they are more stable, less prone to viruses and require lesser resources to run.

2) Windows 2000 was one of the worst windows in terms of stability and performance until vista came along.

Moreover, BEL takes 6 crores from IA and gives the contract to a private contractor for 3 crores. What a scam :((

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby suryag » 27 Apr 2012 04:54

Why should this contract goto BEL in the first place, we are acclaimed leaders in software and some private sector company after appropriate vetting should have been given the contract



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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Jaybhatt » 28 Apr 2012 22:13

This is not a post on a Political Issue

The Land-Grabbing President Withdraws her hand from the Nation's Till - a Significant
Triumph for Faujis and the Republic's Citizens

____________________________________________________________________________

Even if this has been posted in other topics, it deserves to be here. Grabbing of army / cantonment land through a contemptible sleight of hand is very much a defence issue.

The entire saga shows what two determined and fearless warriors, backed by the overwhelming majority of the country's citizens, can achieve.

Pratibha Patil, the lowest-ranked (by a long margin) Indian President ever (based on any normal attributes that you can choose) has eaten humble pie. She has drawn back from the brink of committing a flagrant crime. Yet, her statement confirming her decision not to go ahead with the venality, is so graceless and undignified that it is mind-boggling.

To compound her sins, she has embarked on another international jaunt, that will cost a packet for all of us.

Can't wait to see her departure from Rashtrapati Bhavan in July.


http://www.moneylife.in/article/preside ... 25270.html


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby aditp » 29 Apr 2012 11:10

Another planted story. Look carefully at the pie chart. It is not to scale, and seeks to portray the morale in poor light!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 29 Apr 2012 20:34

Jaybhatt wrote:This is not a post on a Political Issue

The Land-Grabbing President Withdraws her hand from the Nation's Till - a Significant
Triumph for Faujis and the Republic's Citizens

____________________________________________________________________________

Even if this has been posted in other topics, it deserves to be here. Grabbing of army / cantonment land through a contemptible sleight of hand is very much a defence issue.

The entire saga shows what two determined and fearless warriors, backed by the overwhelming majority of the country's citizens, can achieve.

Pratibha Patil, the lowest-ranked (by a long margin) Indian President ever (based on any normal attributes that you can choose) has eaten humble pie. She has drawn back from the brink of committing a flagrant crime. Yet, her statement confirming her decision not to go ahead with the venality, is so graceless and undignified that it is mind-boggling.

To compound her sins, she has embarked on another international jaunt, that will cost a packet for all of us.

Can't wait to see her departure from Rashtrapati Bhavan in July.


http://www.moneylife.in/article/preside ... 25270.html



It's so easy to convert the house into a memorial and retain forever a la jagjivan ram's govt allotted house and meira kumar in lutyen's delhi

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sanjeevpunj » 29 Apr 2012 22:11


Nikhil T
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Nikhil T » 30 Apr 2012 08:15

3 new deals inked to boost firepower of special forces

NEW DELHI: Jolted into action after Army chief General V K Singh sounded the red alert over huge gaps in the force's operational readiness, the government has inked three contracts to boost firepower and surveillance capabilities of Special Forces and infantry soldiers.

Sources say the first contract to acquire 1,568 advanced sub-machine guns for the "ghatak'' platoons of infantry battalions has been inked with M/s B&T Switzerland for Rs 25.84 crore.

Simultaneously, defence PSU Bharat Electronics has been contracted to supply a fresh consignment of 630 hand-held thermal imagers for Rashtriya Rifles, the specialized counter-insurgency force deployed in J&K, at a cost of Rs 132.38 crore. Another Rs 105.45 crore deal for acquiring laser target designators for the Special Forces has been inked with M/s Alpha Design. The three new deals may seem small in comparison to the mega contracts for Navy and IAF, which typically run into thousands of crores, but the government finally seems to be showing some sense of urgency after Gen Singh's disquieting letter to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh last month held there were "critical hollowness'' in arms and ammunition in his 1.13-million strong force.

Sources say several procurement projects worth over Rs 15,000 crore are now in the final stages. These include new regiments of BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles and Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers as well as 10,000 Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles and 25,000 Invar missiles to arm the T-90S tanks, as was first reported by TOI. Then, there are other projects like the electronic warfare systems for the crucial 4 Corps (Tezpur) and 15 Corps (Srinagar) for Rs 975 crore.

Defence minister A K Antony has already held three review meetings to fast-track these and other procurement projects, which together number over 100, as well as boost infrastructure development along the borders for swifter troop and equipment mobility. A new empowered committee, headed by the Army vice-chief, on the lines of a similar one for Siachen-Saltoro Ridge region, is also looking at arms deals for the 10 Para-SF (Special Forces) and Para-SF (airborne) battalions.


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