Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
nits
BRFite
Posts: 1021
Joined: 01 May 2006 22:56
Location: Some where near Equator...

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nits » 31 May 2012 13:13

Some how media is painting is last few days that Gen V K Singh retirement is one of best thing which has happened in recent times... terming it as most controversial, full of tactics full career and what not...

Come on he may have fair share of issues during his tenure but he has also done good things; a man should be remembered for his full service tenure and not what has happened in last few months. He is a Army Chief and deserve respect at end of his stint... his good deeds should not go down in drain...

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9277
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Hari Seldon » 31 May 2012 16:37


Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12636
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 31 May 2012 19:07



Even the HT reporters Rajeev Kanwal etc. when asked questions by Army guy about the report stated yesterday, they ask only questions they don't have answers. This seems a fix the Army by INC.

Same reporter was behind Modi did not call army for 3 days i.e Feb 29, Feb 30 and Feb 31 2002.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36423
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby SaiK » 31 May 2012 20:37

cleansing all these corruptions mean generation of dis-respect wrath from public will be an implicit given... i hope we have institutions cleaned up rather carry forward, though it carries the disrespects, but it would also come out clean for the future.

and, babooze and afsars must be sent to desi-guantanamos.

jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5363
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby jamwal » 31 May 2012 21:11

Image

Did the General wrote it for real ? :twisted:

eklavya
BRFite
Posts: 1880
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 23:57

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby eklavya » 31 May 2012 21:35

Amitabh wrote:In my view VKS was trying to unnerve a weak and paranoid government. .


Thanks for your reply. I'm afraid you haven't presented any facts or figures that corroborate your views about the Chief. You say that the troop movement was an attempt to "unnerve" the government. What does "unnerve" mean? For example, are you saying that VKS was trying to COERCE and THREATEN the government into doing something through unauthorised deployment of military force? If so, please present some corroborating evidence, as attempting to coerce and threaten constitutional authority is a hanging offence. Do you know (i) who in Army HQ planned the exercise, (ii) who approved the exercise, (iii) when the planning was done, (iv) when the approval was provided, (v) when the formations received their orders, (vi) what did the orders say, etc etc etc. How can you ascribe motive without knowing any of the salient underlying facts?

Given that the year of birth matter was in Court / heading for Court at the time of the troop movement, I can only see evidence of constitutional behaviour on the part of VKS.

Based on your uncorroborated statements of belief, I can only assume you are carrying some form of bias, either against him, or in favour of those who have been made to look bad by his (entirely legal) actions.

Amitabh wrote:Again, in my view, whatever the merits of his age argument, he has played divisive politics and challenged civilian authority for a deeply personal agenda. .


A man in uniform is allowed to disagree with civilian authorities, but he cannot disobey his orders. Where is the evidence of VKS challenging constitutional authority? Is seeking justice in the Courts challenging constitutional authority?

Amitabh wrote:If as you say the government (personally I disagree -- MMS is not some petty ethnic lobbyist) or some army lobby plays minority card x, it does not entitle the serving army chief to play minority card y. .


Of course, it is never justified to play the ethnic card. No right thinking person would disagree. Maybe both MMS and VKS are not perfect saintly human beings. But I am afraid, VKS is a victim of the ethnic card being played in the full knowledge of the PM. The PM had the power to stop it, he did not, we can safely conclude that the PM was in favour of playing the ethnic card. Very sad for all of us ...

Amitabh wrote:He has also attended overtly political events in uniform, which also shows poor judgment. He is welcome to do as he likes once he has doffed his uniform, but there are limits to how far you can pursue a personal agenda as Army chief.


Please explain which "overtly political events" he attended.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Nikhil T » 31 May 2012 21:37

Strange that there are no pics/video yet of the actual handover of the Chief's office. I believe media is invited inside the room. It'd be interesting to see the 'chemistry'.

Edit: Found some pics here
Last edited by Nikhil T on 31 May 2012 21:57, edited 1 time in total.

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 31 May 2012 21:46

my theory is that VKS took a stand against a corrupt practice or system and then that system fought back and discredited him
that tells me that the rot is quite deep

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ShauryaT » 31 May 2012 22:02

Amitabh wrote:The issue is that two military formations undertook unusual mobilisation in the direction of Delhi, and that the government reacted by implementing certain protocols that are reserved for a potential military coup. There are the facts and are verifiable in principle. I have at least one paramilitary contact who has told me that the second event did occur. I choose to believe him.

In my view VKS was trying to unnerve a weak and paranoid government. Again, in my view, whatever the merits of his age argument, he has played divisive politics and challenged civilian authority for a deeply personal agenda. If as you say the government (personally I disagree -- MMS is not some petty ethnic lobbyist) or some army lobby plays minority card x, it does not entitle the serving army chief to play minority card y. He has also attended overtly political events in uniform, which also shows poor judgment. He is welcome to do as he likes once he has doffed his uniform, but there are limits to how far you can pursue a personal agenda as Army chief.
The mobilizations were not unusual and were par for the course, has been documented extremely well. Some lowly functionaries of the government may have reacted but the higher functionaries of the government on knowing of the incident, quickly moved in to rectify the matter. The accusation on ex COAS VKS that he was trying to unnerve a weak and paranoid government is without any substantiation and is a charge of treason as per the IPC.

Just because some members here in their ill advised judgment label this word around, you who has been around for a long time, should not stoop to this level, without an iota of proof. If the government felt that VKS was indeed trying for something, believe me they would have moved in quite fast. It is stup*d to think that the army or its chief will try these stup*d stunts.

Aaryan
BRFite
Posts: 180
Joined: 28 Sep 2009 00:01

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aaryan » 31 May 2012 23:04

Amitabh wrote:(1) I have heard from a number of army sources that he has played the communal card and that too in pursuit of personal goals. The army is not the terrain for caste battles to promote individual interests;
(2) Contrary to what everyone here and in the wider public believes there is I believe some truth to Shekhar Gupta's report of the non-coup; obviously it was not a real coup attempt (since there are other larger units in Delhi that would attempt that) but (a) the unit movements were highly unusual in that they were in the direction of Delhi and (b) the government did activate certain protocols that are put in place when it believes an armed takeover might be in the offing.

I do not expect most people here to accept my argument since it is non-verifiable, but I am entitled to my own views. Logically, if I believe that the army chief is playing a communal card and that he (even if slightly) threatened the sanctity of civilian control of the military, then I can only conclude that he is guilty of poor judgment.




You heard from a number of army sources... Care to mention just one?? I can quote Number of sources on any thing i want.. For ex i hav heard from number of sources that VKS was most secular person in army.. N more over where did this communalism came from??? Even Shukla accused him of playing caste card… So can u explain how the hell did he play communal card which your so many sources told u about.. Am sure they must have given you at least one example.. Can u please enlighten us…
Now u say that “the unit movements were highly unusual in that they were in the direction of Delhi” well can u show me just one rule in army or in civilian rule book which forbids movement of army units towards delhi without notifying government ??? If u would have found time to read the article… U must have know what task the para’s were given and what all difficulties they faced… Please keep reading shuklas blog unless u have some thing logical to say..
:roll: :roll:

atreya
BRFite
Posts: 541
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 16:33

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby atreya » 31 May 2012 23:33

The issue is that two military formations undertook unusual mobilisation in the direction of Delhi, and that the government reacted by implementing certain protocols that are reserved for a potential military coup. There are the facts and are verifiable in principle.


I think it is an assumption of yours that the GOVERNMENT 'implemented certain protocols reserved for a potential military coup' and that it can be verified in principle.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/324008/ ... m?page=all

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 280032.ece

How do you explain the 'fact' (if I may call it so) that the Prime Minister and the Defence Minister have explicitly denied any attempts at a coup? Quoting DM Antony ji, " It was normal activity for the forces to be on the move and there was nothing unusual about it."

I would not dismiss your paramilitary source outright. But don't you think that when the Defence Minister and the Prime Minister are telling everyone that there was no army coup attempt, one should believe them over any other source?

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 31 May 2012 23:41

lalmohan put it correctly

Imagine the sheer level of the rot in our stuructures that the system can come back and pulverize an army chief like this

now how will any other low level guy ever take on the system.



as for sources ... it needs to be backed to some level by public info


otherwise its my chaiwallah against yours

and why would you expect a paramilitary source to say otherwise. The GOI is built to follow the british system of divide and rule

satya
BRFite
Posts: 718
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 03:09

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby satya » 31 May 2012 23:52

As saying goes in punjabi '' saade naal vi shaakk hei'' . These para miliatry's Saab log too finding their place in Dilli's sun (once they were invisible faces & now they feel they are defenders of dilli :evil: for their patrol duties with DP & hearing DP's wireless messages & sounding they too know stuff :rotfl: ) . Does these barsati Dilli residents know the SoP involving an Army unit ? If so better shut mouth & stop uttering utter garbage . Its complete BS. There was nothing unusual in troop movement everyone agrees except MHA who want his dream job as next resident of 7 RCR.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55241
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 01 Jun 2012 00:43

So Chiddu is again at the end of another rotten plan.

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ShauryaT » 01 Jun 2012 03:32

Has the Naresh Chandra Task Force report been made public? Anyone with a copy?

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21231
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Philip » 01 Jun 2012 05:35

A conversation recently with a friend well in the know of matters in Delhi/MOD says that Gen.VKS upset the coterie within the IA,a powerful lobby from a particular state,who have engineered the "line of succession" within the IA for a long time.This LOS also encourages and cements the corruption within the system.Gen. VKS would not play ball,so the established system hit back at him.He went "AWOL" as it were,taking his case to the media-as an army chief is not expected to do and displayed the can of worms and true state of affairs within the IA for the benefit of nation,thus brutally embarrassing the govt./DM in the process .They are past masters at the art of sweeping dirt under the table,taking a "Nelsonian eye" to corruption and like Pontius Pilate,washing their hands when facing critical issues,so that the system survives and their "clean" image may be upheld .

One wishes Gen.B.S. the very best of luck and sincerely wishes that he upholds the highest traditions of the IA.he has a huge amount of work on his plate in modernising and strengthening the IA at a critical time when the rupee has crashed ,the global and Indian economy in sh*t street and the IA is woefully short of both eqpt. and officers.


Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21231
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Philip » 01 Jun 2012 07:32

Lt.Gen.Sinha (retd) on the task for the new chief.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/editoria ... -chief-373

Ethics, ethos and the new Chief

May 31, 2012
By S.K. Sinha

Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh takes over as the new Chief of the Indian Army on May 31, 2012, succeeding Gen. V.K. Singh. Both these officers were commissioned almost three decades after me in the Army.

I first met them when I was the governor of Jammu and Kashmir and found them doing well as divisional commanders in counter-insurgency operations. I was particularly impressed by Bikram Singh, who was commanding the same division which I had commanded 30 years earlier.

The last one year has been a dark patch in the history of the Indian Army. Gen. V.K. Singh’s tenure as Chief started with a blaze of a self-created controversy compounded by the shenanigans of a few others.

He has now said that the year of birth controversy was avoidable. His last week in office is ending with another controversy that smacks of personal vendetta. He has projected himself as a knight in shining armour, as a lone crusader against corruption casting aspersions all round.

Never before has any Chief in this country or any democracy in the world, filed a statutory complaint or gone to court. This lowered the dignity of that high office. Matters were compounded by the caste factor being brought in.

Members of Parliament of his caste sought the Prime Minister’s intervention in his favour and his brother-in-law organised a public rally in his support in Delhi. Instead of distancing himself from all this, he as a serving Chief went to unveil the statue of a former Prime Minister belonging to his caste.

All this sent a wrong message. Caste or communal considerations may play a role in politics but they have no place in the Army, where our officers and men have always maintained a totally national outlook. In the wake of the adverse verdict of the Supreme Court in March, it’s been a long, murky night of generals which has continued to his last days in office. The ethos and ethics of the Army have taken a tremendous beating, as well as the image of the Army.

Anyway let us now bury the past and let the Army bid farewell to Gen. V.K. Singh, wishing him happiness and prosperity in his post-Army life.

The new Chief faces a whole lot of challenges. He must restore the dignity of the high office of the Chief, and equally important, must revive the ethics and ethos of the Army. In a democracy, a Chief must unquestioningly accept the supremacy of the civil and must be totally loyal to the latter.

Civil stands for the political executive and not for civil servants. Subordination of the military to the civil should not mean subservience or servility. There may be occasions when a Chief may have serious differences with the government on policy matters of national importance. In that event, he must resign and not promote public controversy while still in service.

Napoleon’s advice about military operations is relevant: “Every General-in-Chief when given orders that he feels are wrong must represent and get them changed. If this is not done, then he must resign.”

Two past instances reflect the ethics and ethos of the Army. Gen. Thimayya had differences with
Krishna Menon, the defence minister. He tendered his resignation. Jawaharlal Nehru sent for him and urged him to withdraw his resignation in national interest, assuring him of resolving matters. Thimayya withdrew his resignation. He never went public on why he had resigned and, of course, did not go to court to seek justice. The other example pertains to my generation of officers in 1947.

New pay scales were introduced after Independence for both civil and military officers. Pre-Independence civil officers were allowed to retain their old, higher scales and the new scales applied to their post-Independence colleagues. In the case of Army officers, those serving from before Independence were also brought on the new scales.

This meant an overnight reduction of about 30 per cent in our salary. No one went to court seeking justice. We accepted the unfair decision with a stiff upper lip. The steep reduction in our salary coincided with operations in Kashmir. The unjustly treated officers fought loyally; some even making the supreme sacrifice.

A malicious rumour is doing the rounds that the new Chief is being brought in so that he can tow the government line on withdrawing troops from Siachen. I dismiss this out of hand. I am confident that Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh or any Army Chief will always tender his honest professional advice; not doing so will be betraying the nation. The government may take any decision it likes.

Ensuring high degree of war preparedness through expeditious acquisition of modern weapons, new raisings and improving defence infrastructure on a war footing, is an overriding requirement.

Simultaneously, there should be no compromise in combating corruption. Prompt and exemplary action must be taken to root out this menace.

To achieve these goals, the Army Chief should regularly be interacting directly with the Prime Minister and the defence minister. The political executives must ensure that the civil servants do not act as a barrier between them and the Army Chief. Service Chiefs must function as Chiefs of Staff and not as heads of department attached to the ministry.

Pending restructuring of higher defence organisation, committee system of joint functioning as recommended by Lord Ismay in 1947, should be revived.

Relying solely on file-based decision making must be given up. We have the most irrational higher defence organisation in the world with stifling bureaucratic stranglehold.

The recent controversies have shown how deep-rooted distrust and antagonism is between Army officers and civil servants in the ministry of defence. They need to work as a team pursuing a common goal.

The sooner our higher defence mechanism starts working on the same lines as in the UK and other democracies the better. Appointment of Chief of Defence Staff and meaningful integration of services headquarters with the ministry of defence, are immediate imperatives. Recommendations of the Kargil Review Committee were cleverly derailed by the bureaucrats.

There is little hope that the ongoing Naresh Chandra Committee, headed by a former defence secretary, from which former Army Chief has been kept out while including former Navy and Air Chiefs, does not inspire confidence.

The new Army Chief should give top priority to rectifying the grave infirmities in defence functioning, enlisting the support of the Prime Minister and the defence minister.

Gen. Bikram Singh has to lead and inspire our one million-plus Army by his personal example. Heavy responsibility rests on his shoulders. From what I have known of him, I am sanguine that he will be successful in carrying his daunting responsibilities.

The author, a retired lieutenant-general, was Vice-Chief of Army Staff and has served as governor of Assam and Jammu and Kashmir

ShauryaT
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 06:06

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ShauryaT » 01 Jun 2012 08:00

No favouritism in army

On the weekend prior to demitting office, General V K Singh, using the media, publicly firebombed the government one last time as Chief of Army Staff (COAS). Separately interviewed by the main television channels intent on wringing the last few drops of sensationalism out of the situation, he gave notice that the government can expect more criticism in the future. Actually, a retired VK may prove a bigger thorn in the Congress coalition government’s side. In the know of everything that’s afoot in the army, and all the decisions in the pipeline, VK can be expected to hold his successor’s, the defence ministry’s, and the government’s feet to the fire. Several of VK’s immediate predecessors, it was known in army circles, were susceptible to corruption — the reason why his elevation two years back was welcomed by great many upright serving and retired officers. This, of course, raises the question: How is it that persons with soiled reputations get effortlessly promoted in the army, even as genuinely capable officers have their careers sidelined? The explanation is that a motivated army chief can play havoc with the promotion boards — throw out the grain, keep the chaff. I mean, how does a Tejinder Singh, the conduit for filthy lucre as alleged by VK, become director-general, Defence Intelligence Agency, for god’s sake?

One issue, however, remains unanswered: Why did VK approach the Supreme Court to ‘restore’ his honour, rather than asking for an adjudication on his age? By making his personal ‘honour’ the principal legal concern, VK afforded the court which was wary of getting sucked into this controversy the escape route of getting the government to withdraw the offending document that reiterated the wrong age. It is no use for him to now claim that the judges were leaning in the direction “the wind was blowing”. He undermined his own chances and voided the possibility of a ruling on whether or not, for government service purposes, the school-board exam certificate is the only proof.

The in-coming COAS, General Bikram Singh, doesn’t have the soldierly credentials of VK and, during his tenure, will be operating under a cloud, his every decision under the microscope. He will be like the teacher’s pet appointed class monitor on the basis of connections, not merit. In Bikram’s case, the ‘succession plan’ crafted by General J J Singh, ignobly furthered by his successor, Deepak Kapoor, involved in the Adarsh housing scam, and diligently propelled by the government, will hang round his neck like the dead albatross on the ancient mariner.
Despite burning its fingers, this government is apparently convinced that pre-selection is a good thing and the next man in has already been so anointed. Except, by putting the present GOC, III Corps, Lieutenant General Dalbir Singh Suhag’s promotion as army commander on hold, VK has presented Bikram with a dilemma. He countermands VK’s rules-wise correct show-cause notice to Suhag, as desired by many in the government, and he further besmirches his reputation. Or, he lets the order stand, derails the next stage of the succession plan of an army command for Suhag, and courts enmity of the very people who helped him reach the top. Bikram’s strength of character, or lack of it, will soon become evident.

Many people wonder if VK’s actions have ‘politicised’ the army. In a citizen army, the average officer and jawan alike is socially conscious and politically aware. However, army discipline and tight-lipped, straight-backed demeanour are usually mistaken for political naivete by politicians and civil servants. It is the use by the latter two of their own more elastic morality and ethics in dealing with the military and when deciding on national security matters that poses the greatest danger to the republic.

The Congress has a track record of destroying institutions by playing favourites. Indira Gandhi undermined the integrity of the Indian Administrative Service during Emergency from which the IAS has not recovered. Constitutional rights were suspended and a ‘committed bureaucracy’ obtained by choosing select babus for certain posts. These babus bent rules and did her bidding. Up until then, promotions were generally on merit, and postings of civil servants were as per vacancy, and the entire process was managed by the chief secretaries in the states and the cabinet secretary at the Centre. It was too useful an innovation, however, for subsequent non-Congress governments to give up, except they were less brazen about it than the Congress.

Unfortunately, during Emergency some favour-seekers among flag-rank officers, disregarding a military officer’s code of conduct, visited persons believed close to Sanjay Gandhi. That era is long gone, but uniformed officers still seek politicians’ help in promotions and postings, albeit more discreetly these days. However, if pre-selecting favourites for the top posts in the three Armed Services becomes the new norm, there’s nothing to stop the venal politician-bureaucrat nexus from auctioning off these posts to officers who promise the most returns, in the manner Delhi Police and other state police reportedly do when filling positions in ‘lucrative’ police thanas. See where this is going?
The frightening thing to consider is that the Congress government is now insinuating practices it has perfected elsewhere in government in its dealings with the military. Hoisting chosen persons into choice slots is one such practice. The motivation is not hard to fathom. With thousands of billions of dollars worth of hardware purchases in the pipeline, if you apply the 15 per cent standard, revealed by the Confederation of Indian Industry’s then top honcho, Tarun Das, in the Nira Radia tapes, that amounts to how much by way of commission/cut to the politicians? Do the math. In the event, it is good business to appoint your own chaps to manipulate the field tests, the weapons short list, and the terms from foreign suppliers.

The fact is the Armed Forces being a microcosm of Indian society, most of the societal ills have been steadily seeping into the military for a while now. Like all things bad their progress has been rapid.

Bharat Karnad is professor at Centre for Policy Research and blogs at www.bharatkarnad.com

Jaybhatt
BRFite
Posts: 172
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Jaybhatt » 01 Jun 2012 11:05

peter wrote:More brain dead journalism:
i) How on earth is it VK Singh's fault that Antony did not launch a CBI inquiry?
ii) What is wrong with some of these old chaps? Like Kadiyan?

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-right-centre/is-general-vk-singh-a-crusader-or-bull-in-a-china-shop/234211


Very good question, Peter.

Kadiyan is a non-starter. He loves seeing his mug on the idiot box and mouthing utter rubbish. He is a complete give-away.

There are much more insidious ex-fauji characters that the babus - netas - corrupt media units have dredged up in the last few months to bolster their campaign against the former chief, Gen. VKS.

3 chaps, in particular, have been very venal and egregious.

(1) Major General Ashok Mehta ("cashiered") : this man was forced to leave the Army after he was found to have committed a grave offence. Most BR members know the crime for which Mehta was shown the door. It is a serious moral and ethical crime in the lexicon of the armed forces. For this fellow to publicly pontificate about ethics and values is absolutely disgusting. He is not fit to clean the shoes of Gen. VKS.

(2) Air Marshal P S Ahluwalia : Also called "Pudding". The man should have been medically discharged from the Air Force many years ago for being totally unfit. He is a round ball and elicited twitters wherever he went. An anti-thesis of a soldier. A Chandni Chowk halwai.

(3) Lt. General Shankar Prasad : the most insidious of the lot. Has a sharp mind, distorts facts and the truth confidently and speaks well. Has no compunctions whatsoever about twisting issues and derailing the real subject. A Kapil Sibal - Singhvi type among the faujis. No moral framework at all.

Cavalrywallah Ajai Shukla put up the pretence of speaking up for the General on a number of occasions. Clearly, he was a Trojan horse. And he has proved it beyond doubt by his recent somersault.

Sad days indeed that we are passing through.

pradeepe
BRFite
Posts: 741
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 20:46
Location: Our culture is different and we cannot live together - who said that?

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby pradeepe » 01 Jun 2012 11:42

Lalmohan wrote:my theory is that VKS took a stand against a corrupt practice or system and then that system fought back and discredited him
that tells me that the rot is quite deep


+1
My view as well. Never an easy task to take on the system. All parties have their hand in the jar and one who threatens its greasy system invites its wholesome wrath.

merlin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2153
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: NullPointerException

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby merlin » 01 Jun 2012 12:28

Philip wrote:A conversation recently with a friend well in the know of matters in Delhi/MOD says that Gen.VKS upset the coterie within the IA,a powerful lobby from a particular state,who have engineered the "line of succession" within the IA for a long time.This LOS also encourages and cements the corruption within the system.Gen. VKS would not play ball,so the established system hit back at him.He went "AWOL" as it were,taking his case to the media-as an army chief is not expected to do and displayed the can of worms and true state of affairs within the IA for the benefit of nation,thus brutally embarrassing the govt./DM in the process .They are past masters at the art of sweeping dirt under the table,taking a "Nelsonian eye" to corruption and like Pontius Pilate,washing their hands when facing critical issues,so that the system survives and their "clean" image may be upheld .


You, communal, you! :twisted:

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Singha » 01 Jun 2012 12:33

Major General Ashok Mehta ("cashiered") : this man was forced to leave the Army after he was found to have committed a grave offence. Most BR members know the crime for which Mehta was shown the door. It is a serious moral and ethical crime in the lexicon of the armed forces

> can someone PM me these details?

Amitabh
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Amitabh » 01 Jun 2012 12:58

eklavya wrote:
Amitabh wrote:In my view VKS was trying to unnerve a weak and paranoid government. .

Thanks for your reply. I'm afraid you haven't presented any facts or figures that corroborate your views about the Chief.

I had typed out a reply but on reconsideration I will leave this topic be; I have said all I wanted to say. You and ShauryaT are welcome to disagree strongly as I expect most people to do. I feel I should defend Shekhar Gupta's story because two conversations that I have had are broadly consistent with it. Some day we will find out if I was right, partly right or wrong.

eklavya wrote:
Amitabh wrote:He has also attended overtly political events in uniform, which also shows poor judgment. He is welcome to do as he likes once he has doffed his uniform, but there are limits to how far you can pursue a personal agenda as Army chief.

Please explain which "overtly political events" he attended.

The political event I am referring to is the RK Anand book launch -- a rather poor choice for an anti-corruption crusader. Btw it may well be true that VKS may have angered various lobbies (Adarsh, Sukhna etc.) but that does not excuse all his actions.
Sanku wrote:
peter wrote:Verifiable? Prove it. Let us test your honesty.

General VKS has said nothing unusual about the movement. You are saying the opposite. Whom do we believe? You over the General? How/Why?

Are the mods watching or is blatant lying from Amitabh and his ilk acceptable?


Its not only Gen VK Singh who has said the movement was very normal.

Any number of retired officers who have commanded these units, attest publicly that such movements are very regular and esp during the time frame mentioned.

MoD has said the same

Antony and Babu's have also said the same.

So its not only Gen VKS over Shekar Gupta, It is entire Indian setup over Shekar Gupta.

The stupidity of these arguments is reaching legendary proportions.

Let's invert the logic (do try to follow...): explain to me the circumstances under which VKS, MMS and AKA would ever confirm Shekhar Gupta's story? Their actions would be the same whether the story were true or false so you cannot infer truth/falsehood from their actions.

Virupaksha wrote:
You may wish to familiarise yourself with COAS selection procedures before peddling such foolish conspiracy theories. And also reconsider your implicit accusation against Lt Gen Bikram Singh, GOC Eastern Command.


Would your same logic of rushing to defence of Shri BS not apply to your explicit accusations (not implicit) against VKS or "unknown" ideological colored glasses get in your way

Good aim -- but misfire. The COAS selection procedure is strictly seniority based which leaves no room for manipulation and therefore sanku's entire rant that the government was politicising the army was baseless. Not sure how ambiguity over one appointment means that deep politicisation is setting in.

By contrast VKS's age campaign is well documented and it is widely accepted that there is bad blood between him and the MoD bureaucracy. The comparison does not stand because all analysis has to take this into account. Of course I have coloured glasses on (not ideological since I don't know what ideology VKS stands for) -- it's called having an opinion. I am sure your lenses are clear and pure and you have no biases -- I aspire to such lofty standards.

Aaryan wrote:For ex i hav heard from number of sources that VKS was most secular person in army.. N more over where did this communalism came from??? Even Shukla accused him of playing caste card… So can u explain how the hell did he play communal card which your so many sources told u about..

He may well be a deeply secular person (not sure how you can be the "most secular person in army" -- are all others less secular?) but if he plays a caste card (mobilising Rajput MPs) when the chips are down then it is still improper. And please feel free to explain why casteism is not communalism.

Actually don't. Time to end this discussion.


rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7743
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 01 Jun 2012 14:08

^^^Excellent. The empire strikes back and the witch-hunt starts. And the timing....sweet timing!!!
Hmm...but the BEML may have erred in this defamation suit. The matter of bribe and TATRA Truck issue is under investigation and I'm not sure the "defamation" angle can come in here. If anything, more skeletons may come out of closet if they really push VKS. After, he was the COAS and knows things inside out.

BTW, let us wait for Chacko to come here and defend BEML as paragon of virtue.

ASPuar
BRFite
Posts: 1538
Joined: 07 Feb 2001 12:31
Location: Republic of India

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ASPuar » 01 Jun 2012 14:41

Amitabh wrote:Let's invert the logic (do try to follow...): explain to me the circumstances under which VKS, MMS and AKA would ever confirm Shekhar Gupta's story? Their actions would be the same whether the story were true or false so you cannot infer truth/falsehood from their actions.

----------

deeply secular person (not sure how you can be the "most secular person in army" -- are all others less secular?) but if he plays a caste card (mobilising Rajput MPs) when the chips are down then it is still improper. And please feel free to explain why casteism is not communalism.

Actually don't. Time to end this discussion.



Where were Rajput MP's mobilised? Maybe they were just convinced suo motu of the genuineness of the Generals case? Did they go to the Govt saying "we are Rajput MPs, and we have been told by VKS to do this"? Who were these MPs anyway? Can you name them, or are you just parroting some rubbish that has been written somewhere? This nonsense has reached herculean proportions.

Incidentally, RK Anand, whose event the General according to you "so improperly attended" (who are you by the way to decide what is proper or not?) is a Congressman.

And while you are keen to accept these bogus charges of "communalism" or "casteism" (I thought someone had to be discriminated against for such a thing to happen), you go so far as to say that "we cant accept the PM and RM's assertion that the IE story was rubbish". So everyone who says that the General is blame free is a liar, according to you, but Shekhar Gupta could never be wrong, or even, dare I say, motivated in his reporting?

There is a limit to distortion of facts. You've crossed that limit, and stepped into the territory of blatant lies and mischief.

Im fairly disgusted by the mentality of some people.

member_20317
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3167
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_20317 » 01 Jun 2012 15:16

Amitabh wrote:Good aim -- but misfire. The COAS selection procedure is strictly seniority based which leaves no room for manipulation and therefore sanku's entire rant that the government was politicising the army was baseless. Not sure how ambiguity over one appointment means that deep politicisation is setting in.


Is this correct?

I am asking, not being sarcastic. Don’t know much on such issues. I had heard that there were other Generals more Senior then Gen Bikram Singh.

nelson
BRFite
Posts: 988
Joined: 02 Mar 2008 21:10

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nelson » 01 Jun 2012 15:33

Strictly speaking, negligible number of promotions and appointments in the rank of Maj Gen and above are apolitical.

schowdhuri
BRFite
Posts: 174
Joined: 15 Dec 2010 12:24

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby schowdhuri » 01 Jun 2012 16:03

ravi_g wrote:
Amitabh wrote:Good aim -- but misfire. The COAS selection procedure is strictly seniority based which leaves no room for manipulation and therefore sanku's entire rant that the government was politicising the army was baseless. Not sure how ambiguity over one appointment means that deep politicisation is setting in.


Is this correct?

I am asking, not being sarcastic. Don’t know much on such issues. I had heard that there were other Generals more Senior then Gen Bikram Singh.



Of course it's correct. If have followed the discussion, you should have seen that people who would have been senior/considered a better a fit were removed beforehand. Go back through the pages, and you will also get the names of people who were removed to ensre that the race was won by the favoured candidate.

eklavya
BRFite
Posts: 1880
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 23:57

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby eklavya » 01 Jun 2012 16:08

Amitabh wrote:The political event I am referring to is the RK Anand book launch -- a rather poor choice for an anti-corruption crusader. .


Not every public event organised or attended by a politician is a political event. When a politician does something in a private capacity (like release a book), it is not a political event. Please find out whether the book written by RK Anand was about a party political subject. The book is about how the judiciary has acted against manipulation of defence services promotions by the bureaucratic / political system. Even if RK Anand is corrupt, the arguments made by him in his book may still be correct / valuable. Please address the man's arguments.

Amitabh wrote:The COAS selection procedure is strictly seniority based which leaves no room for manipulation .


Just plain wrong; it is very vulnerable to manipulation. Brigadier Ravi Arora was passed over by General JJ Singh to clear the way for BS to be appointed COAS. Read all about it:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pil-a ... h/942512/0

2.10. The present saga has its origin when General Joginder Jaswant Singh (Hereinafter Gen. J J Singh) assumed command of the Indian Army as COAS on 01.02.2005.


A Maratha Light Infantry officer, General JJ Singh was the first ever Sikh to rise to the top spot in the Army.


2.11. The background in which this needs to be appreciated is, in the preceding months, as General NC Vij’s tenure at the helm was coming to an end, there had been a fair amount of ‘langar talk’ in the Army that General JJ Singh would be superseded by General Shamsher Mehta, an Armoured Corps officer. Though the Government of India by and large always followed the ‘seniority’ principle in selecting service chiefs (the only exception being General AS Vaidya who had been elevated over Lt General SK Sinha in 1983) there had been enough uncertainty resulting in the Shri Gurudwara Prabhandak Committee (hereinafter the SGPC) issuing a strongly worded statement which was published in a few newspapers in favour of General JJ Singh taking over as the first ever ‘Sikh’ chief. Said statement came in for heavy criticism and nothing more was heard of it again, but by General JJ Singh’s own admission, that there would have been a blood bath on the streets if he had been superseded.


The Petitioners assume that the SGPC’s statement probably had little or no bearing on the Appointment Committee which at that time was headed by the Present Hon’ble Prime Minister, Dr Man Mohan Singh. Yet the fact remains that for the first time in Independent India, the communal cards were played at the highest level in the Army.


General JJ Singh within few months of taking charge initiated some thing called “look down policy” which was intended to give a clear idea to the officer above the rank of Brigadier who was still climbing the command pyramid to as to what the “line of succession” would or could be and to work out his own list, where based on various permutations and combinations, the next three/four chiefs could be predicted.


The only list that mattered was General JJ Singh’s own prepared list, for as the Chief of the Indian army.


2.12. It was well known that Gen. J J Singh was to be succeeded by General Gen. Deepak Kapoor, but his successor was to depend on the Promotion Boards which were to be held in future and especially towards the end of 2005 to decide as to which officers were to be cleared for the Lieutenant General Rank.


For the Line of Succession to succeed, General JJ Singh tweaked the events to clear the way for his immediate choice after General VK Singh.


At that point of time, Lt. General Bikram Singh was no where in the list of contenders, and there were other officers ahead of him, but were required to be ‘eliminated’ by General JJ Singh himself itself with a bit of deft maneuvering.

A list was prepared, nick-named ‘Op MOSES’ which implied that the Chief would pave the path for Lt. General Bikram Singh, for him to become the COAS in 2012. Like a family tree in reverse, Op MOSES listed potential threats that needed to be neutralized.


At this stage it would be pertinent to bring it to the notice that, for anyone to be in the line of becoming the COAS, the three Promotion Boards, pertaining to the Promotion of an officer as Brigadier, Major General and Lt. General is important, as the Person who would have maximum period of Residuary Services left would become the contender for the Post of COAS, and the Senior One amongst them at the time of retiring COAS, would if the Seniority Principle is adhered to would become the COAS. The functioning, appointment, duties and promotions are regulated by the Defence Services Regulations, 1986.


2.13. There might have been many other who would have been sacrificed in the unethical and immoral game plan laid down by Gen. J J Singh, but some of them heading the list of contenders were Brigadier Padam Budhwar and MM Chaudhary, followed by Major Generals Shujan Chatterjee, AK Singh, Ravi Arora and VK Singh.


2.14. While all the others had to be ‘fixed’ by manipulating their Brigadier to Major General Boards or by other delaying tactics that allowed Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh to overtake them, in the over all scheme of things it was also imperative that Gen. VK Singh becomes the Chief, but only till 2012, so that Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh, succeeds him.


2.15. The Result for the Promotion Board held in October, 2004 for the Promotion of Officer from Brigadier to Major General was declassified on 21.02.2005. Apart from other Officers the name of Brig. Ravi Arora and Brig. Bikram Singh, were considered.


2.16. But, to ensure that the Line of Succession works out well at the end, Brig. Ravi Arora despite being a Gold Medallist on commissioning and the senior-most in the batch was not empanelled but the Brig. Bikram Singh was. Aggrieved with the aforesaid empanelment Brig. Ravi Arora filed a Non- Statutory Complaint on 05.03.2005.


There were other non-statutory and statutory complaints filed.


The intention was to delay his promotion as much that, by the time he is empanelled to be the Lt. Gen, he should not be left with Sufficient Residuary Services to be considered for the Post of COAS.


While the other complaints were disposed of within 17 days, Brig. Ravi Arora’s complaint was deliberately not.


Unless the things are looked backward in the time, keeping in view the “Line of Succession” Gen J.J. Singh had made, his move could not be questioned, the same being apparently a malafide and arbitrary.


2.17. While Brig. Ravi Arora’s Complaint was still pending, within 38 days of declassification of the Previous Promotion Board, Gen. JJ Singh held a ‘fast track’ promotion board on 01.04.2005, in which amongst others, one of his own staff Brig. Chetinder Singh, whose complaint was disposed of for the purpose, was considered and cleared for promotion, whereas Brig. Ravi Arora’s was not even considered.


The said board was irregular, unusual and discriminatory to others, since 60 days are provided to represent against the results and as per MOD Policy, the non-statutory complaints should be decided in three months, and thus previous list could not be said to be final till the time all the complaint made against the same is disposed off after due consideration.


2.18. That the Promotions from Brigadier to Major General Rank is vacancy based, so not disposing off all the Complaints filed simultaneously, and granting promotion to some even before the expiry of the period for representation and disposal as per policy is apparently malafide and arbitrary exercise of authority, to favour few.


Soon after the aforesaid Promotion Board, Brig. Ravi Arora’s non-statutory complaint was rejected.

Against the aforesaid rejection Brig. Ravi Arora filed a Statutory Complaint on 21.05.2005, the said Complaint was vehemently opposed by Gen. J.J. Singh, to ensure that its disposal takes as long as possible, which as per plan took about 12 months against the mandatory six months for disposal.


The reason doing so was to ensure that he should not have the requisite residual service for promotion and appoint as Corps Commander or Army Commander later.


2.19. A Promotion Board for promotion of officers from the rank of Major General to Lieutenant General was held on 30.09.2005. In which Gen. V K Singh was considered.


The results for the aforesaid board held, was declassified on 15.04.2006.


Before all the Promotion Boards held, Gen V K Singh’s Date of Birth, as produced by the AG Branch and the MS Branch was 10th May, 1951. The same was intentionally not touched.


For “Op MOSES” to succeed, it was imperative for Gen. V K Singh to be sent into a tail-spin. The timing was critical – to have created the age issue before his Lieutenant General Board would have meant that VK Singh would not be the chief, thereby knocking out Bikram Singh which would have been counter productive.


2.20. The moment Gen V K Singh was cleared for promotion as Lieutenant General, at Gen. JJ Singh’s behest, the then MS fired off the first missile.


Lt General Richard Khare in a letter dated 03.05.2006, for the first time wrote to the then Lt. General VK Singh, that there is a discrepancy in his DOB in the Army List and the same is to be resolved.


At that time it could hardly have been any thing else but the reflecting of a correction. It was also conveyed to Gen VK Singh that the matter would be resolved after going through the records. However, he was told to reflect his date of birth as 1950 for the vague reason that he cannot change his age from what was reflected in UPSC application form and resultantly shown as such in Army List. The desired letter having been obtained from the unsuspecting Gen VK Singh, Op MOSES was now in full swing.


2.21.It is an admitted fact that although initially the Date of Birth of Gen. V K Singh was inadvertently shown as 1950 in the UPSC form, but the error was then only got corrected, i.e. even before he joined the National Defence Academy in 1966, and thereafter his DOB everywhere had been recorded and reflected as 1951 only. Even at the Indian Military Academy, where he was asked to fill up his form as per the original UPSC form, the correction was noted and the IMA records sent to the Adjudant General’s branch reflected 1951. On commissioning into the Army, his year of birth was listed as 1951. Even in the MS branch since his first commissioning as 2nd Lieutenant till he was promoted as Lieutenant General, his DOB has been 1951. All records in the AGs branch had the D.O.B. as 1951, and other than the Army List (which had failed to reflect the correction from the original UPSC form and was based on data forwarded by the MS branch without the requisite verification or checks) everything else listed his age as 1951. The said Army List considered to be fraught with errors and without any utility, had more or less been discontinued since 1990.


2.22. Gen. JJ Singh was simultaneously working out on his plan to exterminate other from the race, from amongst Lt. Gen. Bikram’s contemporaries. MM Chaudhary and Padam Budhwar had already been passed over from the Major General rank after deliberately playing havoc with their promotional boards. The promotion of Brig. Ravi Arora, Gold Medallist, was already delayed to allow the favoured candidate to surge ahead.


2.23. The Review Promotion Board (SB No. 1 Review) was held on 25.07.2006. MS Branch record will show that Gen. Arora has a better chance over others, but in furtherance of other plan, in the said Review Board he was not approved intentionally. If he were, then the chances of Lt. Gen. Bikram Singh coming into the so-called succession chain would not have arisen. It is believed that the board was held specifically for the purpose of rejecting Brig. Ravi Arora’s Candidature.


The Ministry of Defence had raised objection about holding the board, as the previous Review board was yet to be confirmed by MoD.


Review No 1 SB was illegal as it has long been held that Army HQ cannot hold any selection board for a particular rank unless the previous board for the same rank is finalized. The same was clearly done with the ill motive by then the COAS, with the intention to pave path for Bikram Singh and to exclude Brig. Ravi Arora from the competition.


Moreover, if the Review Promotion Board would have been held after all the complaints received within the stipulated time would have been decided, then it was possible that Brig Chetinder Singh may not have got a vacancy, due to merit and vacancy.


Since Gen. Arora did not represent against Result of the aforesaid illegal Board, thus he was relegated to the next batch.


2.24. Without there being any new material or confidential report coming on record, a Promotional Board was held again on 07.11.2006 (presided by Gen. J J Singh), which approved Brig. Ravi Arora for empanelment as Major General, but by then he was excluded from the succession chain.

schowdhuri
BRFite
Posts: 174
Joined: 15 Dec 2010 12:24

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby schowdhuri » 01 Jun 2012 16:11

Singha wrote:Major General Ashok Mehta ("cashiered") : this man was forced to leave the Army after he was found to have committed a grave offence. Most BR members know the crime for which Mehta was shown the door. It is a serious moral and ethical crime in the lexicon of the armed forces

> can someone PM me these details?


He showed a bit more interest in the welfare of the 'families' of brother officers, than in the brother officers themselves. There was a group of such senior officers, and then Eastern Army Cdr already had his sight on them, waiting for when he became Chief. I doubt the cashiered bit thought, the whole group was asked to resign immediately, which I think they did, knowing the consequences. Otherwise considered quite a brilliant officer in the Sunderji mould.

Surya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5034
Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 01 Jun 2012 16:36

Amitabh wrote:
The COAS selection procedure is strictly seniority based which leaves no room for manipulation .



:eek: wow such faith

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby peter » 01 Jun 2012 16:47

eklavya wrote:
Just plain wrong; it is very vulnerable to manipulation. Brigadier Ravi Arora was passed over by General JJ Singh to clear the way for BS to be appointed COAS. Read all about it:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pil-a ... h/942512/0

Very informative. What could be the motive of JJ to do this?

I know that Sikhs were very upset for the longest time that not a single one from their ranks ever became a COAS. Now with a Sikh PM at helm we have two. Could be an abundance of talent. Or not. Nepotism? No one talks about the N word so must not be.

peter
BRFite
Posts: 1207
Joined: 23 Jan 2008 11:19

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby peter » 01 Jun 2012 16:50

Jaybhatt wrote:
peter wrote:More brain dead journalism:
i) How on earth is it VK Singh's fault that Antony did not launch a CBI inquiry?
ii) What is wrong with some of these old chaps? Like Kadiyan?

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-right-centre/is-general-vk-singh-a-crusader-or-bull-in-a-china-shop/234211


Very good question, Peter.

Kadiyan is a non-starter. He loves seeing his mug on the idiot box and mouthing utter rubbish. He is a complete give-away.

What I found interesting is that Kadiyan was trying to defend Suhag. Was it because they are the same caste?

I was very impressed by General Oberoi. He was very sharp and correct.

Nepotism means what? We have seen journalists in Kerala all praised Antony.

Pranay
BRFite
Posts: 1458
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Pranay » 01 Jun 2012 23:20

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/your-c ... /234510?hp

First interview with media post-retirement - General V. K. Singh (has video of the transfer ceremony) - "The journey of a thousand miles starts today"...

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Nikhil T » 02 Jun 2012 07:19

rohitvats wrote:^^^Excellent. The empire strikes back and the witch-hunt starts. And the timing....sweet timing!!!
Hmm...but the BEML may have erred in this defamation suit. The matter of bribe and TATRA Truck issue is under investigation and I'm not sure the "defamation" angle can come in here. If anything, more skeletons may come out of closet if they really push VKS. After, he was the COAS and knows things inside out.

BTW, let us wait for Chacko to come here and defend BEML as paragon of virtue.


I agree. All through, self-righteous people (both inside and outside the Govt) have been blaming VKS for bringing the office of COAS into controversy. Now a DPSU is seeking to file a 'defamation suit' against the ex-COAS one day after his retirement. Now they should introspect who is bringing this office into question?

kunalverma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 86
Joined: 07 Sep 2011 22:01

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby kunalverma » 02 Jun 2012 18:20

To: ak.anthony@sansad.nic.in
Subject: complaint;CMD BEML
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 08:15:43 +0000

 
From
A K Agrawal
P11- Golden Enclave
Old Airport Road
Bangalore-17
 
To
Shri A K Anthony
The Defence minister of India
Raksha Bhavan
New Delhi
 
Dear Shri Anthony
 
Sub:Action against Mr V K Natrajan
CMD.BEML For Threatening to sue the ex Army Chief for defamation
 
The nation was witness to the strange spectacle of the CMD of BEML holding a press conference to announce that he was issuing a defamation notice to ex Chief of Army, General V K Singh, who had retired a day before.
 
When he was asked as to whether he had taken permission from the Ministry he said that he did not need to do so.
 
Kindly let the nation know that as an appointee of the government has the authority to issue notice of defamation to the ex Chief of the Army, which also happens to be its largest customer without the permission of the Ministry. It appeared that Mr Natrajan was acting on behalf of Mr Ravi Rishi and as a middleman to a middleman, having a personal stake in the profits made in the selling of Tatra trucks
 
If it is so then the nation will rightly conclude  that BEML has become the personal fiefdom of Mr Natrajan and the government is powerless to reign him in for fear of the names he will reveal.
 
If it is not so then please confirm to the nation that you or your Ministry gave him permission to sue the ex Chief for defamation and announce it to the media through a press conference.
 
In that case, it will confirm to the nation that you have stopped supporting the honest and started supporting the corrupt.
 
And that the last known  honest politicians of the country too has his limitains.
..
 
More important, was it not your Ministry which sanctions the purchase of trucks from BEML that stopped the orders to BEML? There were a number of complaints on the Tatra Trucks much prior to the matter being brought to your specific notice by General V K Singh.
 
The fact that no action was taken by the Ministry earlier had surprised many, leading to unnecessary speculation about the ultimate beneficiary of the tainted deall
 
Is it not true that it was the Ministry that stopped the orders to BEML on grounds of corruption through overpricing and low quality?
 
Is it not true that Tata Siprox has no factory, is a middleman which does not even register the turnover of the trucks in its books of accounts in London?
 
Is it not true that though the payments are made through bank documents by BEML to Tatra Sipox, the same is not received in its books? Where does it disappear?
 
Is it not true that BEML under Natrajan grossly abused its status as a PSU and its monopoly on orders from the government and became an agent for middlemen like Rishi?
 
Will the Ministry made public the price at which the trucks were being purchased and the quality of the trucks as assessed by the Army?
 
Are not government servants protected from being proceeded against legally for their bonafide action in the course of duty?
 
As far as the nation is concerned, the proof of corruption in the Tatra deal is the compelling visual of the Tatra truck  having its steering on the left hand side!
 
It is requested in the interest of the nation that it be revealed as to whether Mr Natrajan has the backing of the Defence Minister in suing the ex army chief and if not what are the compelling circumstances that inspite of CBI raid he continues to be in office and the government is not even  able to send him on leave.
 
Silence in this case is not the answer as the conclusions drawn from the silence are ominous!
 
With warm regards                              
                                                                                                Yours sincerely
                                                                                                A K Agrawal
 
Bangalore
2/6/2012

kunalverma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 86
Joined: 07 Sep 2011 22:01

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby kunalverma » 02 Jun 2012 18:42

Ajai Shukla has been served a legal notice on behalf of Admiral Ramdas, MG Devasahayam, Generals Ashok Verma, PC Katoch, OS Lohchab, former CEC Mr N Gopalakrishnan and veteran journalist Sam Rajappa for deliberately lying and distorting facts with reference to the PIL which had been filed in the SC to uphold the Institutional Integrity of the Armed Forces.
I'm trying to get a copy of the notice. Shukla has not only cooked up a load of rubbish to support the theory that the petition is 'communal' (first painted as such by Indian Express) but has also put words in the mouth of the judges saying 'they scolded the petitioners and dismissed the petion' or words to that effect. Lying and quoting a SC judge, this also amounts to contempt of court.
An appeal has already been filed and awaits hearing as the petitioners alledge that the ACC file put up to the two man bench was doctored. Though the file had been closed in February, it contained an affidavit filed by the MoD in the J&K HC some twenty days later. RTI documents also reveal that the GOI only asked Army HQ for details pertaining to the Congo case on 13 April, once again after the supposed closure of the file.

Jaybhatt
BRFite
Posts: 172
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Jaybhatt » 02 Jun 2012 18:55

schowdhuri wrote:
Singha wrote:Major General Ashok Mehta ("cashiered") : this man was forced to leave the Army after he was found to have committed a grave offence. Most BR members know the crime for which Mehta was shown the door. It is a serious moral and ethical crime in the lexicon of the armed forces

> can someone PM me these details?


He showed a bit more interest in the welfare of the 'families' of brother officers, than in the brother officers themselves. There was a group of such senior officers, and then Eastern Army Cdr already had his sight on them, waiting for when he became Chief. I doubt the cashiered bit thought, the whole group was asked to resign immediately, which I think they did, knowing the consequences. Otherwise considered quite a brilliant officer in the Sunderji mould.


Singha : your query has been answered by schowdhury. The exact offence, as per the Army Act, is also referred to as "stealing the affections of a brother officer's wife" (this was before the feminist days and the word "spouse" was not used in regulations etc). This is a very serious offence in the Army and falls under the broad head of "moral turpitude".

schowdhury : re: your comment that the fellow Mehta was in the Sundarji mould. With respect, this is far fetched. But I will let it be. The main point that I want to re-emphasise is that a chap like Mehta, given his moral framework, is not fit to polish General V K Singh's shoes.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests