Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

[svinayak]

The decision to deploy tanks to beef up India’s light, mountain infantry divisions was taken due to doctrinal changes in China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA). The PLA has deployed armoured and motorised formations in both their military regions across the Line of Actual Control, as the de facto Sino-Indian border is called. According to the International Institute of Strategic Studies, Lanzhou Military Region, which faces Ladakh, has 220,000 PLA troops, including an armoured division and two motorised infantry divisions (a division has three brigades).

Looks like the Ladakh has high importance to PLA and their strategy with PA.

[SaiK]

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-1962-repeat-says-Army-chief/articleshow/16468527.cms Army's over Rs 65,000 crore plan for the mountain strike corps (additional 40,000 soldiers) to the chiefs of staff committee for a re-think and joint tri-Service proposal.

It is important we provide those 40k odd jobs to soldiers and at the same time the rest of the investment comes to our soldiers aid - like a mountain warfare suite, machines include a DRDO devised special tank for two men @120MM 20kTon, with kanchan and lightweight composites. We might require such technology, and help our soldiers.. in addition to wear gears that actually help reduce fatigue.

I hope the money is wisely spent, and not swindled into middlemen and corrupt people. it is nation's blood, that the gov should care and tender.

[Vivek K]

For all the hoo-har about Army demanding Russian tin-cans, and "Army knows best" wallahs, ready to chastise the army for buying Russian, surely you cant be naiive enough to think that the Army actually decides which tank to buy?
.....
Whatever made you think the Army actually decides anything?

Thank you for the honesty and the truth. It is time for the IA to grow b$lls and refuse to follow such treasonous orders from corrupt persons. Though forced to speak against IA for its treatment of the Arjun, please remember that for us people like Captain Vikram Batra are heroes and we will always remember their sacrifice for us. When IA can show such extra-ordinary courage, why is it scared of cheap two-bit corrupt netas?

[nelson]

1970's Indian PoW Sepoy Jaspal Singh Located after 41 YEARS!

Tragic if true.

[Prem]

1970's Indian PoW Sepoy Jaspal Singh Located after 41 YEARS!
Tragic if true.

BRF should monitor the progress and keep vigil on this. GOI must act on it as of Yesterday not tomorrow.

[Tanaji]

For all the hoo-har about Army demanding Russian tin-cans, and "Army knows best" wallahs, ready to chastise the army for buying Russian, surely you cant be naiive enough to think that the Army actually decides which tank to buy?

The pressure to buy Russian comes entirely from the political leadership, via media the Department of Defence Production in the Ministry of Defence. The army (read pliant officers, who have been elevated for precisely such purposes), simply fall into line with whatever demand the MOD makes of them. If the MOD/PMO says "you should say we want these tanks", these fellows say so. And after that, its a license to mint money for a chain of politicians, babus, fixers, and sons-in-law of various worthies.

Whatever made you think the Army actually decides anything?

Saar, could you please let us know who

1. Formulates the GSQRs
2. Who carries out the AUCRT, sees mysterious transmission failures on indigenous tanks that magically vanish when the maker of the transmission installs black boxes
3. Who claims after the product is ready to be accepted that the tank is "too wide"?
4. Who claims that "we dont need AC" our jawans are strong enough to withstand 50C
5. Who claims that after the tank meets its own GSQRs, is too "heavy"
6. Who accepts certain foreign tanks and its shortcomings and says that shortcomings will be fixed in later versions but absolutely refuses to accord the same courtesy to certain indigenous tanks

etc etc.

One would like to know saar...

[negi]

ASpuar sir you are painting a very one sided view of the whole arms procurement business, I can tell you for a fact that there is a pretty sizeable chunk of fauji involvement in the whole business. Nandas (his son ran over someone in Dilli in his BMW back in 90s) or quite a few companies out there which I know personally that supply stuff to the forces they are manned by ex service personnel. Even the tfta companies like Sikorsky and RR india ops are manned by ex service personnel. Now that my father has retired I can paraphrase him 'The amount of corruption in forces in procurement and distribution side equals or even exceeds PSU levels' .

[SSridhar]

Army to induct indigenous howitzers in 2013 - Businessline

After failing to induct artillery guns in the last over 25 years, the Indian Army will get its first indigenously manufactured howitzer next year, Defence Minister A.K. Antony said here today.

The guns produced in the unit (Ordnance Factory) will be inducted in the Army by 2013, he said after launching the facility to manufacture 155 mm howitzers at the Gun Carriage Factory.

The army, which has not inducted artillery guns in the last 25 years, is eagerly waiting for the indigenously manufactured weapons which are being developed on the basis of transfer of technology of the Bofors guns.

The two types of howitzers for the army will be ready for trials by December and by June next year, respectively.

Clearance for the project was accorded by the Defence Ministry’s Defence Acquisition Council at its meeting in October last year granting permission to the Ordnance Factory Board to manufacture 155mm howitzers.

Under the project, the OFB will manufacture two prototypes of 155mm 39 calibre FH-77-B02 guns and the upgraded version of 155 mm/45 calibre howitzers.

The decision to allow the OFB to manufacture these guns was taken after the army failed in more than four attempts to modernise its artillery.

The army has made several attempts to procure four types of howitzers, but all of them have failed due to one reason or the other.

Antony informed that plans are afoot for modernisation of ordnance factories in the country saying, “There are a total of 39 ordnance factories in the country and all of them are doing a good work in production of weapons for the Army”.

[VinodTK]

Indian soldiers lauded in Israeli textbooks for freeing Haifa city

While remaining unknown in their own country, some Indian soldiers will become household names in Haifa in northern Israel after figuring in the history textbooks taught at schools for their contribution in liberating this city in 1918.

The municipality of Haifa has gone ahead with its decision to immortalise the sacrifices made by Indian soldiers, many of whom are buried in the cemetery there, by including the stories of their valiant efforts in liberating the coastal city during the First World War in the school curricula as part of the history textbooks.
:
:
:l

[chetak]

Indian soldiers lauded in Israeli textbooks for freeing Haifa city

While remaining unknown in their own country, some Indian soldiers will become household names in Haifa in northern Israel after figuring in the history textbooks taught at schools for their contribution in liberating this city in 1918.

The municipality of Haifa has gone ahead with its decision to immortalise the sacrifices made by Indian soldiers, many of whom are buried in the cemetery there, by including the stories of their valiant efforts in liberating the coastal city during the First World War in the school curricula as part of the history textbooks.
:
:
:l

Is this in keeping with the current secular policies of the GOI??

will it not hurt the sentiments of ..............??

The municipality of Haifa also announced to organise a ceremony every year to commemorate the role of the Indian army in liberating the city from Turks after almost 402 years.

[VinodTK]

Forces mulling 3 joint commands

NEW DELHI: Indian armed forces are now finally mulling the creation of three new unified commands to effectively tackle the rapidly expanding security threats and challenges in the fields of space, cyberspace and special operations.

The brass of Army, Navy and IAF are "informally'' discussing the "contours'' of the cyber, aerospace and special operations commands, which will synergize efforts and assets of the three services in these "critical areas'', sources said.

Once the "formal joint proposal'' of the three Services is finalized, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne will take it up with the government in his capacity as the chairman of the chiefs of staff committee. In fact, the "urgent need'' for the three new commands is likely to come up during the Combined Commanders' Conference to be addressed by the Prime Minister on October 19.

The prevalent view is that a three-star Army officer (Lt General) should head the Special Operations Command, while an equivalent rank from IAF (Air Marshal) can steer the Aerospace Command. The Cyber Command, in turn, will be headed by a Vice-Admiral from the Navy.

This means the commanders-in-chief of the three new commands will "not be rotated'' among the Army, Navy and IAF. India's two existing tri-Service commands - the Strategic Forces Command and the Andaman & Nicobar Command - as well as the integrated defence staff follow a "rotational'' policy at present.

"It will ensure the new command in question can be 'mothered' by a single Service on a continuous basis. The Army, after all, has domain expertise in special operations, IAF in aerospace and Navy in cyber and information technology. The commands will draw elements, assets and manpower from all the three services as well as the government below the three-stars,'' said a source.

The Indian defence establishment certainly needs to be geared for battles in space and cyberspace after the first three military domains of land, air and sea. It also needs to bring together the disparate special forces in Army, Navy, IAF and other forces under a unified command and control structure to execute strategic operations in tune with national security objectives.

China, for instance, is taking huge strides on the space and cyberspace fronts.

Cyber warfare, too, is a frontline military priority for China, with its "hacker brigades'' regularly breaking into computer networks of countries like India, US, the UK and Germany.

[ASPuar]

A hard hitting post by Major Navdeep Singh, a lawyer, and former military reservist, regarding the failures of the Military medical establishment, and how its callous attitude ruins the lives of wounded soldiers.

http://www.indianmilitary.info/2012/09/ ... uired.html

Wake up time: Drastic changes required in the military medical set-up


This subject has been discussed on the blog umpteen number of times, and please be advised that the idea behind this post is not to criticize but to aid introspection.

The declaration by a medical board of an in-service incurred disability as ‘attributable to, or aggravated by service’ or ‘connected with service’, is what determines the pensionary entitlement of our men and women in uniform including whether he or she would be entitled to any kind of pension at all or not, and it also has a direct bearing on the survival of the family through thick and thin as also the right to lead a life of adequate dignity.

However, the sensitivity to this very important aspect is totally lacking in the military medical set-up, which, in a routine manner treats this issue more like an administrative and mathematical joke rather than something which affects the survival and the right to live a dignified life of our veterans and their families. It’s just a stroke of a pen – ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, and therein lies the answer whether the veteran and his family would be entitled to any kind of livelihood and facilities or not.

Direct to the point, today, to put it succinctly, it’s a pretty easy job for military medical boards. The thumb rule in use currently by the system, for most disabilities, is – if the disability had arisen in a field area, then it’s attributable to / aggravated by service, if it emanated in a peace area, then it is neither attributable to, nor aggravated by service (NANA). Needless to state, in actual terms, Regulation 423 of the Regulations for Medical Services of the Armed Forces (RMSAF) clearly provides that service in peace or field has no bearing on attributability.

So there you have it, in the ultimate analysis as to how the system is functioning, an Army Major who may be suffering from mild hypertension but is serving in say Udhampur in J&K though in an easy undemanding appointment, would be provided the benefit of ‘aggravation’ and hence disability pension because technically he’s in a field area, but a Major who may be the Garrison Engineer in a high pressure appointment and zone like Delhi or say perhaps a cardiologist in a high profile and highly demanding faculty in Army Hospital (R&R), even if suffers a massive heart attack due to excessive pressure of his job, would not be granted the benefit of ‘aggravation’ since he was posted in a peace area.

The above is how the Guide to Medical Officers (Military Pensions) issued by the office of Director General Armed Forces Medical Services (DGAFMS) deals with the subject. And it’s going from bad to worse, since while the earlier version of the same guidebook published in the year 1980 emphasized on dealing with disabilities on a case to case basis, and the one published in 2002 also provided for discretion and application of mind on a case to case basis, the supplement published in 2008 takes it all away and makes it mathematical and mechanical. To top that, the office of DGAFMS is known to issue strange letters to hospitals and boards, communications such as asking boards not to provide attributability / aggravation to diseases such as hypertension in peace areas, which is not only alien to principles of medical science but also in direct contravention of RMSAF and Entitlement Rules promulgated by the Govt of India.

What does peace and field have to do with a disability? The rigours of military service inherently involve a live link with disabilities, especially psychiatric ones and those related to the cardiovascular system. It is otiose to compare military personnel, even when posted in peace areas, with civilians. An extract of an earlier blogpost on the subject is relevant here:-

“While dealing with disabilities of military personnel, the much argued comparison with an ordinary person on the street by medical authorities is also incomprehensible. There are times when it is remarked that such a disease may also have arisen had the particular person not been in the Army and that the Army is one of the most stress-free organisations in the country. The question arises that here is a man who is 24 hours / 365 days on call, sometimes under the shadow of gun, mostly away from his family, in a strictly regimented routine, can he be simplistically compared with say a civilian employee who goes to office at 9 in the morning returns at 5, only five days a week, lives with his family, in his hometown, enjoys his gazetted holidays, retires at 60 ? !. It won’t take an expert to reply in the negative. Wouldn’t common ailments such as hypertension or IHD or minor psychiatric illnesses or psycho-somatic disorders get aggravated by even seemingly insignificant incidents at the home front such as non-performance of children in school, property disputes, sarkari red-tapism in other spheres, family problems etc ? The answer would be in the positive….”

When a person is away from his family and has no control over events in the environment, including the insensitivity of the civil administration towards the issues facing him and his kin, it hardly matters if he’s in field or peace, and many disabilities are bound to aggravate.

The archaic system of assessment of disabilities is proving to be burden on the organization, on the judicial system and is also bringing about much heartburn amongst the veteran community. When asked about the background or studies on the basis of which (regressive) changes were brought about in the Guide to Medical Officers (Military Pensions) from time to time, especially the 2008 supplement, the answer of the office of the DGAFMS has been elusive and less than satisfactory. There are no footnotes, no studies mentioned, there are no references as to how the conclusions in the said guide were reached about attributablitiy and aggravation of various diseases. For example, in the 2002 version, this was expressly mentioned in relation to heart diseases :

“…Hence no clear cut distinction can be drawn between service in peace areas and field areas taking into account quantum of work, mental stress and responsibility involved. In such cases, aggravation due to service should be examined in favour of the individual….”

But the above lines are completely missing in the 2008 supplement. Isn’t this retrograde? Has anyone questioned the office of DGAFMS as to how and on the basis of which studies was the line omitted? And when the militaries of all democracies make no distinction between peace and field and examine diseases on a case to case basis, what right did the office of DGAFMS have to impose its thought process on the future of millions of disabled veterans and also their families? Can we, and should we let a couple of officers holding key appointments decide the fate of disabled personnel and their families?

The guide is also inconsistent on various disabilities, for example, in the 2002 publication, it is stated that a regimented lifestyle in peace may adversely affect heart diseases, the same is not mentioned in the case of hypertension though it is commonly known that the factors affecting both may be intertwined.

The way how policies are handled by us in the official establishment was also highlighted earlier in yet another blogpost in the past in the following manner:-

“…Then there is the tendency to thrust one’s thought process on others in the system and on to the affected parties without deep analysis of issues. An officer wakes up one day, drafts a letter which he or she thinks is the epitome of intelligence, floats a minute sheet, gets it approved on file and viola we have a ‘policy decision’ which is imposed on others who sadly have no say in the arrangement. Or else what could explain letters from the office of DGAFMS asking medical boards not to grant attributability or aggravation to disabilities such as hypertension if the onset is not in a field / high altitude area, when on the contrary, the rule governing the issue states the below mentioned :-

‘For the purpose of determining whether the cause of a disability or death is or is not attributable to service, it is immaterial whether the cause giving rise to the disability or death occurred in an area declared to be a field service/active service area or under normal peace conditions’

So what should prevail over medical boards, the bright-morning idea of the gentleman who signed the policy letter or the rule extracted above ? It is sad but such illegal letters are prevailing over our system rather than the actual legally promulgated rules….”

The problem with us is self-righteousness, the inability to see reason, clinging on to fiefdom, not realizing the damage in the long run. I would have wanted to render a benefit of doubt to the system but there are some very glaring examples which come to mind, thankfully the veracity of which I can vouch since I personally handled them:-

1. A soldier went into coma due to cerebral malaria and was later invalided out on the basis of ‘Opium Addiction’ without pension. The said person had not even touched alcohol in his life, and here he was, branded an opium addict. The medical establishment refused to see reason. After much struggle and after the inception of the RTI Act, it was discovered that probably his papers were mixed up with those of another patient while he remained in an MH in the north-east. With intervention of the Army HQ, he was finally granted disability pension.

2. A Gunner of Clerical trade briefly posted in CI Ops faced an ambush like situation and thereafter used to experience flashbacks about the same. His disability pension claim was rejected by the medical board on the ground that he was posted in field area for less than 2 years. When a fresh medical board was ordered on judicial intervention, rather than recording the flashbacks, the psychiatrist simply wrote that the soldier had ‘disturbed sleep patterns’. Now there is a world of difference between the two, but based on this slipshod opinion his claim was again rejected but thankfully he got his pension later, again on directions of the Court. Till date, it seems that the military medical establishment has not realized that a stressor or a triggering event for a psychiatric disability can happen in one single second of a person’s presence in a particular event, and length of service in field area has no role to play.

3. Medical restrictions were imposed on a soldier that he may not be posted in a high altitude area since he was suffering from Psoriasis. He was still posted to an area beyond Leh from where he was invalided out and the remarks of the medical board were predictable – that the disability was neither attributable to, nor aggravated by service. Again disability pension was granted on judicial intervention.

4. An officer, a volunteer for OP Meghdoot, was diagnosed as a case of excessive dandruff while posted to the glacier. Afterwards he was diagnosed as a case of psoriasis. Claim of disability pension refused on the pretext that the disability was neither attributable to, nor aggravated by service. Now if this isn’t related to service conditions, what is?

5. A soldier diagnosed with cancer was continually posted to field and CI areas despite undergoing chemotherapy. When just about to complete pensionable service, and almost on his death bed, he was forcefully invalided out of service. Disease declared neither attributable to, nor aggravated by service though guidelines clearly provide that if a person with cancer has had an operational tenure within a window of 30 days to 5 years, he is to be granted attributability. He died 9 days later. Family pension refused on the ground that he died after invalidation. The family was then granted pension on the orders of the Court.

The list is endless. These are people who had the wherewithal to fight it out or to approach judicial fora, but countless others suffer in ignorance and silence. Isn’t it the duty of all of us, especially the serving community and senior military staff to order a complete overhaul of the system and make it more logic and medicine oriented? Other democracies are way ahead. In most countries, attributability / aggravation is the rule if it occurs in active service, while rejection is an exception, whereas in our military, it is the other way round.

Already, military personnel are not provided the benefit of protection of service and pension in case of a disability as is provided to all civilian government employees.

The issue is not clearly in open public domain like say corruption in the military, but the way disabled personnel are being treated by us is the greatest disservice to the very foundation of our armed forces in particular and society in general.

Do not keep your eyes closed. Wake up. Please.

[prashantsharma]

1970's Indian PoW Sepoy Jaspal Singh Located after 41 YEARS!

Tragic if true.

Does anyone know if the Govt of India has tried to verify this claim?
A request to BR forum members like Shiv Aroor and Vishnu Som with access to the official machinery to find out more about this.

[chaanakya]

One Rank One pension , a long standing demand of Armed Forces, is approved by the Cabinet today. Congrates to all those who persued this matter to its logical end.

[nelson]

It is not One Rank One Pension. It is something towards OROP and rest pulling wool over the eyes. Just like the recent SC judgement on rank pay for officers, ordering payment of pay due from the employer to the employee for 26 years without interest for 20 years; not even the cursory 6% for beating the inflation.

...The Union Cabinet has approved the recommendations of the Committee headed by Cabinet Secretary for benefits to ex-servicemen on four issues. The financial implications of the improvements made as per the Cabinet decision on the four items are broadly estimated at Rs.2300 crore per annum. The details are as follows:

I. One Rank One Pension:

On One Rank One Pension, the demand of the Defence Forces and Ex-Servicemen Associations is that uniform pension be paid to the Defence Forces personnel retiring in the same rank with the same length of service irrespective of their date of retirement and any future enhancement in the rates of pension be automatically passed on to the past pensioners.

The difference in the pension of present and past pensioners in the same rank occurs on account of the number of increments earned by the defence personnel in that rank. There is also a difference between the pension of pre 1.1.06 and post 1.1.06 retirees belonging to a particular rank. The UPA Government on two previous occasions has taken decisions to narrow the gap between the present and past pensioners, particularly those belonging to the ranks of JCOs and Other Ranks.

On the issue of One Rank One Pension, the following have been approved by the Cabinet:

(i) Bridging of the gap in the pension of pre 1.1.06 and post 1.1.06 JCO/OR retirees by determining the pension of pre 1.1.06 retirees on the basis of notional maximum for ranks and groups across the three Services as in the case of post 1.1.06 retirees. In addition, the weightage of qualifying service in the ranks of Sepoys, Naik and Havaldar would be increased by two years for both pre and post 1.1.06 retirees.

(ii) The pension of pre 1.1.06 Commissioned Officer pensioners would be stepped up with reference to the minimum of fitment table for the ranks instead of the minimum of pay band.

These are expected to largely meet the demands of the defence pensioners on one rank one pension.

Example of wool over the eyes is in bold.

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=87954

[chaanakya]

Well I got fooled into thinking that Congis have finally developed slight pangs of conscience in respect of Armed forces having treated them so shabbily in recent past.

My apologies.

[ramana]

X-Post...
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1343269

Rohitvats think about this.

[rohitvats]

X-Post...
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1343269

Rohitvats think about this.

rji, been traveling like crazy. Will put some thoughts on this during the coming weekend.

BTW, off the cuff...I have a perfect CBM. Declare that Prithvi has been removed from SFC and give a Regiment each to Artillery Divisions. But only when Agni-1 has been inducted in sufficient numbers - where IA/SFC decides what is sufficient.

[ramana]

I am asking about the four MSC divs that are being raised and deployed near railheads to enable transfer to either front!

[RamaY]

rji, been traveling like crazy. Will put some thoughts on this during the coming weekend.

BTW, off the cuff...I have a perfect CBM. Declare that Prithvi has been removed from SFC and give a Regiment each to Artillery Divisions. But only when Agni-1 has been inducted in sufficient numbers - where IA/SFC decides what is sufficient.

This is the remark sri BK did in NJ meet last year.

[rohitvats]

I am asking about the four MSC divs that are being raised and deployed near railheads to enable transfer to either front!

OK. Completely missed that part. Here is a short analysis:

Post 2002 Op Parakram, it seems some high level analysis was done by the IA on the requirement for more formations - from independent brigades to divisions to Corps. This assessment seems to have thrown up a requirement of between 7-11 new mountain/infantry divisions to balance out formations.

I had a discussion with someone much more informed on these matters and we reached a conclusion that the spread of new divisions could be something like this -

14 Corps - needs one more division.
15 Corps - may get one more division
Northern Command - 1 x MSC but before this happens, may see a single division raised under it as Command Reserve. 39 Division can revert back to 16 Corps as Corps Reserve.

III Corps and IV Corps already have one division raised under them and first MSC is going be raised under Eastern Command. So, in all, we are looking at around 8-9 new divisions being raised by 2017-2018 time period.

So, with these new formations under Northern Command, IA will have enough forces in being to screw PA's happiness and create serious force dis balance. The ability to move formations from Eastern Command - 1 x MSC plus 2-3 other divisions can really cause tremendous takleef to Pakistan and create the ratios required to put overwhelming pressure on select nodes.

[rohitvats]

From our news section -

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19659

Excerpt -

It is a proud day for Indian Army as well as the nation as its oldest fighting formation, the 4 RAPID(Strike) division also known as the Red Eagle Division celebrates its 74th anniversary and steps into the year of Platinum Glory.

Here is the official confirmation of India's 6th RAPID under 1 Corps. Another one is expected with 7 Infantry Division under 11 Corps being the prime candidate. But no official information on that as of yet.

[SSridhar]

The Hindu has a series of articles on the 1962 war in today's paper.
Flight to Freedom
When the Chinese came
Bringing Back the Boys
Nine days of fire

[Surya]

thanks SSridhar


correction - Mrs Awasthi had two daughters

[SaiK]

Memories of an unsung war
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history-an ... epage=true

Of all the five wars that India fought, 1962 has always been viewed as the misfortune of an unprepared army in the face of a superior foe.

Saving a soldier

Lobsang was 13 during the war. His mother sent him to fetch water from the stream in the forest. When coming, he heard someone calling out. It was an Indian soldier hidden behind bushes, his feet oozing blood, as if someone had knifed his soles. “I gave him water and ran home to tell my mother. She and my uncle came back with me. Between them they dragged him to a small hut used as a lookout to watch over the crop and hid him there. Mother said that we should not tell anyone, not even our neighbours, as they may report to the Chinese. We kept him hidden for nine days. My uncle knew about traditional medicine; so he would put a balm of tithe patta and haldi on his foot every day. Slowly he could walk with the help of a bamboo stick. On the ninth day he was ready to leave so uncle gave him our traditional gadamchola, (a long woollen jacket) and helped him to the end of the stream. I do not know what happened to him but we all hoped he survived.”

[Austin]

Guns and Butter in Billion-dollar Arms Deal

[SaiK]

what IA needs is similar to Colt LE901-16S (functionality speaking) or the
http://www.military.com/video/guns/rifl ... 182866001/

[Kakkaji]

Guns and Butter in Billion-dollar Arms Deal

Rs. 200,000 per rifle for every soldier in the army? How is that affordable?

[Raja Bose]

The Hindu has a series of articles on the 1962 war in today's paper.
Flight to Freedom
When the Chinese came
Bringing Back the Boys
Nine days of fire

Herein lies the difference. India publicly honours and remembers the men who participated and sacrificed their lives in events which resulted in a defeat, long after it should have been forgotten. While countries like Paki and chipanda try their utmost best to shove every such defeat of theirs under the carpet and failing which, try to manufacture alternate histories.

For newbies who may not have read about the last stand referred to in the article above called "Nine days of fire", here is the article written by LNS:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... Gompa.html

[vic]

Guns and Butter in Billion-dollar Arms Deal

I had pointed out on Small Arms thread few months back that Para Military imported useless carbines for Rs 400 crores in an evidently manipulated deal. INSAS would have been way better and cheaper in that role. Even MSMG would have done the job. Now the Army wants to do one better and buy a ridiculously priced useless junk. US Special forces approved and then cancelled the rifles with interchangeable calibers (as they found the feature useless).

[ASPuar]

Something stinks here.

Looks like the dalaals are back in action, now that they have finally managed to get rid of VKS.

And MHA is finally big enough that their contracts mean something. So more waste of national resources there.

[sum]

Pics from Livefist:


IA para drop training:

[A Sharma]

Lt Gen KS Brar, who led Op Blue Star, attacked in London

New Delhi/London: Lt General KS Brar, who led Operation Blue Star against Sikh terrorists holed up inside the Golden Temple, has reportedly been attacked and injured in London.

Sources said that four men assaulted Gen Brar, who was with his wife, outside a hotel and stabbed him.

The 78-year-old, who remains on the hit-list of Sikh militant groups, is believed to be in critical condition in a local hospital after surgery. Gen Brar's wife was not hurt, sources said.



Lt General Brar usually lives in a high-security cantonment area in South Mumbai

[kvjayan]

Quite generous of Chindu. Hope fellow comrades read these articles (actually came as one piece in the print edition), at least once. They have always been maintaining that China was right and India was wrong. Thanks to these brave soldiers, who died as martyrs to defend our country, we have not (yet) become another TAR (Tibet Autonomous Region).

The Hindu has a series of articles on the 1962 war in today's paper.
Flight to Freedom
When the Chinese came
Bringing Back the Boys
Nine days of fire

[ramana]

The Week is pro-INC paper.

Chinese Checkers

General V.K. Singh has left the Army, but his shadow looms whenever his successor General Bikram Singh takes a decision. Whispers are doing the rounds that Bikram Singh is disbanding the Special Operations unit formed by his predecessor, which was involved in trying to eavesdrop on conversations in the defence ministry. Now Bikram Singh is said to be less enthusiastic about plans for an exclusive strike corps to be formed to defend Arunachal Pradesh from any invasion by the Chinese. Such is the size of the strike corps that its infantry and armoured units can make a decisive push into Tibet.

The Cabinet Committee on Security had given, in principle, approval for the strike corps in May 2009, after the Army made the proposal in 2007. Yet the V.K. Singh lobby gives him the credit for the strike corps. But even though the idea was approved, the cost of the corps was considered too high by the finance ministry. It felt that the Army should use its existing mountain divisions and other units to defend the Himalayas. The new corps, on the other hand, with about 40,000 soldiers, would have had infantry units, armoured columns, heavy artillery and special commandos, which would be a deterrent to any ambitious foray by the dragon country.

The finance ministry had said the already approved expansions included more teeth for the mountain divisions, increased armoured units and building airbases for Sukhois and other advanced fighters of the Air Force. The external affairs ministry had another concern. It did not want a manpower race with China, as relations had remained stable for a long time. The foreign office argued that there was peace and tranquillity on the Line of Actual Control. The finance ministry has also pointed out that funds have been provided for stationing Agni, Brahmos and other missiles close to the frontiers, which have capacity to do great damage, along with the long-range Sukhoi bombers.

Similarly, the external affairs ministry wanted a calibrated approach. Interestingly, National Security Adviser Shiv Shankar Menon had toured the border areas of Arunachal Pradesh when he was foreign secretary, and had given the green signal for building a strong network of mountain roads, which could carry tanks and Bofors guns to high altitudes.

But Bikram Singh insists that he is vigilant about the Chinese border. He has publicly stated that the Army would not allow a repeat of the humiliation of 1962, when Chinese troops had marched through the North Eastern Frontier Agency (the earlier name of Arunachal Pradesh), catching the unprepared Indian Army and Nehru government by surprise. He has undertaken a massive exercise for rationalisation and modernisation of the Army so that its teeth are sharpened and it moves swiftly. He has taken his shopping list for modern equipment to the defence ministry and has asked for purchase procedures to be further simplified so that the weapons and equipment are procured quickly. But Bikram Singh's style is far less confrontational than that of V.K. Singh.

[merlin]

EAM is anti-national. Wants to keep India weak so that relations with China can be kept stable (stable until China builds up adequate force to overwhelm Indian defenses on the border).

[member_20292]

OT:

The Hindu is QUITE marxist! Look at the full page articles dedicated to some non descript marxist historian today. Look at the lack of Gandhi coverage!

[suryag]

When gurus over here were talking about Gorkha soldiers taking over 10 ruffians i didnt believe it entirely but an old general taking on four burly fellows more or less makes me a believer of the ability of our spec forces. My pranaams to you Gen Brar thanks thanks once again

[Surya]

oh such brave @$@$@$@$

Hope the good general recovers

and shame on the GOI for the security lapse

[ManuT]

Lt Gen KS Brar, who led Op Blue Star, attacked in London

New Delhi/London: Lt General KS Brar, who led Operation Blue Star against Sikh terrorists holed up inside the Golden Temple, has reportedly been attacked and injured in London.

Sources said that four men assaulted Gen Brar, who was with his wife, outside a hotel and stabbed him.

The 78-year-old, who remains on the hit-list of Sikh militant groups,

First of all, I am glad Gen K S Brar is OK. Nobody lives forever, and I see no bravery in 4 young men attacking a 78 year old man.

Golden Temple was desecrated the day AK47s brought into it (Atwal killed). For that Binderanwale and Khalistani militants were responsible.

I don't even want to talk about Harminder Singh Sahib. What the Khalistani terrorists did there during blue star was not just offensive for Sikhs. Men like K S Brar did a cleanup, literally. 

Even "facilitating" family members of terrorists can be considered in the spirit of accomodation, allowing the political process and healing to take place, but opening old wounds?? If anything, building of memorial in Golden Temple for terrorists (if that's the case, per Gen Brar), is akin to presenting saropa to Gen Dyer. It is wrong.

Let's be clear:
Blue Star <> Jalianwalan Bagh. 
Gen K S Brar <> some Gen Dyer.
I hope people can discriminate between the two.