Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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nakul
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by nakul »

What's this equal equal between terrorists (Bhidrawala) and unarmed people (inc women & children) in Jallianwala? Are they that sick?
Shrinivasan
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Shrinivasan »

suryag wrote:When gurus over here were talking about Gorkha soldiers taking over 10 ruffians i didnt believe it entirely but an old general taking on four burly fellows more or less makes me a believer of the ability of our spec forces. My pranaams to you Gen Brar thanks thanks once again
god speed Gen Brar... thank god he is safe...
RajD
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by RajD »

http://in.news.yahoo.com/malegaon-blast ... 19463.html
Posting from the link.
Col. Purohit refused interim bail, hearing postponed for 3 weeks.
The lawyer contended that SC is not hearing petition/s of all accused in that case even after 4 years.
Regards.
Rajendra
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by ramana »

Plaintive request from Canada

My family have the two swords used by Lt William Waller 25th Bombay Native Infantry when he won the VC at Gwalior 1858. We are trying to get any contact address etc for the Reg, Hdqtrs of the Rajputana Rifles who eventually absorbed the 25th,to see if there is any interest in aqquiring these antiques.We also have some paintings of his done during his service. My wifes deceased mother Mary Grierson Waller was a great niece William.
The refering page is http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/

"richard welburn" <thefarm@cogeco.ca>

Lt Waller's name in in the wikipage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/125th_Napier%27s_Rifles
Its now the 5th battalion of RajRif:

Wonder if the Rajputana Rifles Regimental Center would like to acquire the swords?

Or else the Museum of Sword, Chelsea, London could be interested?
Austin
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Austin »

IAF says 'no' to Army's bid to control attack helicopters
The IAF on Friday said it has rejected Army's demand to have their own attack and medium-lift helicopters contending that the country can't afford to have these "little air forces" growing up to do their "own things".

The Army has been demanding the control over attack and medium-lift helicopters saying they are mainly used for supporting its operations and that is why should be under it. The IAF operates two squadrons of Russian-origin Mi-35/25 attack choppers and is in the process of acquiring another one from the US in near future.

"Last year in May, when the previous Army Chief was there, the IAF had made an offer that it was willing to let them have their own attack helicopters but that was not accepted as they wanted medium-lift helicopter also for which we said no," Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne said.

He was asked about Army's demand for control over attack helicopters. The IAF chief said the world over, there was integration between the armed forces over the use of assets though these were controlled by separate wings and that "was the way of future".

"We have no major objection except for the fact that this integration model around the world is working.... We can't have these little air forces growing and doing there own things. Tomorrow if the Coast Guard asks for submarines, will we give them submarines from the Navy," he asked.
nachiket
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by nachiket »

Austin wrote: He was asked about Army's demand for control over attack helicopters. The IAF chief said the world over, there was integration between the armed forces over the use of assets though these were controlled by separate wings and that "was the way of future".

"We have no major objection except for the fact that this integration model around the world is working.... We can't have these little air forces growing and doing there own things.
What is he talking about? Armies around the world have their own attack helo assets. The IAF top brass are behaving like complete a$$es on this point.
srin
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by srin »

And here I was, hoping that the Army could have not just Attack Helos but also tactical fixed-wing CAS aircraft - modified Hawk or even a Super Tucano :(

This happened in the US too - the Key West Agreement forbid US Army from owning tactical assets, until it was modified later to allow US to operate helos.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

ManuT wrote:
A Sharma wrote:Lt Gen KS Brar, who led Op Blue Star, attacked in London

New Delhi/London: Lt General KS Brar, who led Operation Blue Star against Sikh terrorists holed up inside the Golden Temple, has reportedly been attacked and injured in London.

Sources said that four men assaulted Gen Brar, who was with his wife, outside a hotel and stabbed him.

The 78-year-old, who remains on the hit-list of Sikh militant groups,
First of all, I am glad Gen K S Brar is OK. Nobody lives forever, and I see no bravery in 4 young men attacking a 78 year old man.

Golden Temple was desecrated the day AK47s brought into it (Atwal killed). For that Binderanwale and Khalistani militants were responsible.

I don't even want to talk about Harminder Singh Sahib. What the Khalistani terrorists did there during blue star was not just offensive for Sikhs. Men like K S Brar did a cleanup, literally. 

Even "facilitating" family members of terrorists can be considered in the spirit of accomodation, allowing the political process and healing to take place, but opening old wounds?? If anything, building of memorial in Golden Temple for terrorists (if that's the case, per Gen Brar), is akin to presenting saropa to Gen Dyer. It is wrong.

Let's be clear:
Blue Star <> Jalianwalan Bagh. 
Gen K S Brar <> some Gen Dyer.
I hope people can discriminate between the two.
I am totally disagree.

First you have to under stand difference between 2 place you mention.
Jalianwala bagh was highlighted after massacre and uncounted life lost.
Golden temple is always highest worship place for Sikh.
Now army know(every Indian too)

what they could do to flush out terrorist.
Army took worst option and killed every person in complex who failed to verify himself.
with this tactics army killed numerous innocence without verification and with will of army Superior (Read KS brar., K sunderji, Vaidiya) also political heads of that time (read Indira Gandhi).

Discreet Golden temple and Destroy Akal Takhat.
Golden temple received more than 500 hundred bullets.
historical Sikh Reference Library gutted because army torched it ( History of Sikhs Lost)
rumors they wanted letter written by Indira to Bhinderanwale.
Army choose Gurpurab day to attack when Visitors is highest( another Lack of vision in army brass of that time)

I am not supporting Brar attack but want to clear that Brar is no hero.
he is rat in living in hole, he know what he did, every sikh hate him and always do.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by member_22906 »

Attack on Harmandir Sahib in Op Blue Star was a classic case of "how not to" - be it in terms of poor tactics, inapprorpiate equipment, lack of clear objectives, timing, failure of ground intelligence etc... Op Black Thunder on the other hand was a classic case of "how to".

There was surely a realization and learning that Blue Star was a complete disaster esp for the common Sikh and the Army. The bond is too deep of the Sikhs and the Indian Army and it took some beating during that time.

However, lets also not forget that while there were major screwups on part of the Army (I don't even want discuss on GoI and Congress and IG's role since they completely and comprehensively F***ed up), a lot of people conveniently overlook the role of chumps like Bhindarawale and and his bunch in and outside Harmandir Sahib

Brar, Vaidya were instruments of a larger game and they were primarily executing their directives. Remember that Lt. Gen. SK Sinha was overlooked for the top job because he didnt agree to IG's diktat on the approach towards the operation. I would simply state that he was a bigger and a more sensible man to have had the long sightedness on this explosive issue. The other 2 were not as sensible... but not in any sense of the term malicious or evil. They simple tried to do what was told to them...
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

Ajay Sharma wrote:Attack on Harmandir Sahib in Op Blue Star was a classic case of "how not to" - be it in terms of poor tactics, inapprorpiate equipment, lack of clear objectives, timing, failure of ground intelligence etc... Op Black Thunder on the other hand was a classic case of "how to".

There was surely a realization and learning that Blue Star was a complete disaster esp for the common Sikh and the Army. The bond is too deep of the Sikhs and the Indian Army and it took some beating during that time.

However, lets also not forget that while there were major screwups on part of the Army (I don't even want discuss on GoI and Congress and IG's role since they completely and comprehensively F***ed up), a lot of people conveniently overlook the role of chumps like Bhindarawale and and his bunch in and outside Harmandir Sahib

Brar, Vaidya were instruments of a larger game and they were primarily executing their directives. Remember that Lt. Gen. SK Sinha was overlooked for the top job because he didnt agree to IG's diktat on the approach towards the operation. I would simply state that he was a bigger and a more sensible man to have had the long sightedness on this explosive issue. The other 2 were not as sensible... but not in any sense of the term malicious or evil. They simple tried to do what was told to them...
Agree,
But Bhindarawala was not Bad as projected (if you read about him)but his path was miss guided by some Politically motivated people.
He is clearly religious men in start he did good work to bring people back from drug and alcohol(both still thriving ) but netas who feel there role eclipsing behind good work of Bhindarawala misguided him make him fanatics and result you look today they still in Punjab looting
rohitvats
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by rohitvats »

While Operation Blue Star will forever remain a scar on the psyche of this nation, it does not give people to spout nonsense and bile on the Indian Army. Indian Army was doing what it was asked to do - that is what armies are for. They are the Bhishma Pitamah of any nation which is sworn to protect the nation state.

Nation is above everything else - as Shri Ram said, " "Janani Janma-bhoomi-scha Swargadapi Gariyasi"

Mother and Motherland are greater than heaven.

I can see you piling nonsense about soldiers who did their earnest duty but call Bhindarwala as "misguided"? And this misguided idiot bought firearms into the temple complex, turned Golden Temple into a fortress and reduced what you call as Sanctum Sanctorum into his personal fiefdom but nary a word against him I hear anyone speak. Why?

So, take you religious bile and nonsense somewhere else.
sarabpal.s wrote: What they could do to flush out terrorist.Army took worst option and killed every person in complex who failed to verify himself with this tactics army killed numerous innocence without verification and with will of army Superior (Read KS brar., K sunderji, Vaidiya) also political heads of that time (read Indira Gandhi)
So, civilians were killed on orders of Senior Army officers and political leadership. You have proof to back this or are you resorting to Lahori logic and conspiracy theories displayed by the greens across the border? What was to be gained by killing innocent people?

You think Army is bunch of sadistic murderous goons out to kill people for its own pleasure? IA has fought numerous counter-insurgency campaigns in this country - how many times have you come across instances of IA killing people in cold blood at the direction of seniors or as a policy?
Discreet Golden temple and Destroy Akal Takhat. Golden temple received more than 500 hundred bullets
historical Sikh Reference Library gutted because army torched it ( History of Sikhs Lost) rumors they wanted letter written by Indira to Bhinderanwale. Army choose Gurpurab day to attack when Visitors is highest( another Lack of vision in army brass of that time)
Oh! yes...the all time favorite argument... IA desecrated the Golden Temple. What was Bhindarwala doing with his posse of goons and weapons inside the Complex? Playing Cowboy and Indians? How come no one raises this point?

So, Akal Takhat had many bullet marks...why don't you explain why the Army had to fire towards it in the first place? How come the blame rests on the Army while it was the so called champions of Sikh faith who had made Akal Takhat a veritable fortress? Why is this little point missed out in the narrative?

And Sikh Library was torched because it contained letters between IG and that sh*t-head Bhindarwala? And why would personnel letters be stored at Sikh Library? Don't you think Bhindarwala would have them on his person or stored at some personnel place? Or, are we to understand that the place used to keep historic records of Sikh Gurus was used by Bhindarwala for his own purpose? That wasn't desecration, now? Was it? But there is a more simple explanation - that of a fire fight between IA and militants holed up in the Sikh Library where a hand-grenade from one of the sides started the fire.

The assault was planned for Gurpurab Day because another custodians of Sikh faith, the Akali Dal, had announced to carry out a state wide morcha on 3rd June. Why could not have they postponed it knowing fully well the situation in Punjab and the Amritsar? Were they trying to put pressure on the GOI and morcha would have been used to pressure the government to lift the siege? Very likely so...and there was a precedent to it.
I am not supporting Brar attack but want to clear that Brar is no hero. he is rat in living in hole, he know what he did, every sikh hate him and always do.
By extension of your logic, anyone who took part in that operation is a rat....including Lt. General PC Katoch who actually led the 1 PARA(SF) charge on Akal Takhat...Sorry, but please take this BS somewhere else where they have wet dreams about Khalistan. These people were professional soldiers who carried out their duty to the best of their abilities. And they do this day in and day out - even the Kashmiris hate them, so do people in Nagaland and anywhere else who have had wet dreams of breaking this nation.

I don't see Sikhs in Punjab disowning Congress which was the chief architect of what went wrong. Did killing IG absolve everyone else in the Congress? But it is the Army which must be vilified.

These men are real heroes in every sense of the world - at least to those who do not see them through coloured glasses of religion or regionalism.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by member_22905 »

sarabpal.s wrote: I am not supporting Brar attack but want to clear that Brar is no hero.
he is rat in living in hole, he know what he did, every sikh hate him and always do.

An Army man is a warrior first who follows army's own codes and ethics. Army itself is a religion for those who serve in it. Brar is a hero and will always remain so. To understand what Brar did and why he did, one needs first to be an army man. What you have said is utter shame and if wisdom prevails you must take it back.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Ashutosh Malik »

Ajatshatru wrote:Having retired from BRF a while back, back just for this one off post after reading an absolutely dimwit post by a member on this forum.

INC, in order to counter the Akalis, brought an illiterate Granthi Bhindrawalla to centre stage….a Frankenstein monster who later even went out of control of the Congress….

This man was a cold bloodied murderer/a sadistic madman. Any person eulogising this man needs the urgent help of a shrink.

My own Sikh neighbour had gone visiting the Golden Temple once and once there was told to meet Bhindrawalla. Bhindrawalla told him to take a chit out of a jar which Bhindrawalla had in his room. When my neighbour took out the chit from a jar, the chit contained the name of a Hindu family and Bhindrawalla told this Sikh to murder this family. When my neighbour refused to do so, Bhindrawalla told him ‘then before leaving write your name and address on a chit and drop it in a jar”....

There was news that Bhindrawalla was about to declare Khalistan and some countries around the world would recognise it immediately after the declaration, so the ruling Congress party ordered the army, among other things, to flush out the terrorists from the temple.

Some people (e.g. a member here) now may have “convenient amnesia” regarding those days, but I still remember seeing on a TV channel at that time the amount of weapons that were dumped by Bhindrawalla and Co. in the pond that were later flushed out by the army. I also remember seeing on TV 100s of woman that were being rescued by the army that were forcibly kept by Bhindrawalla and his pack of goons for their personal enjoyment inside the temple.

I know there would be a hue and cry by certain members on reading this post and demand for me to be banned by the Mods, but as stated I have already retired from this forum and made an exception for this one off post after reading the absolute garbage posted by a member on this forum. But, at one level, such a post really does not surprise me, as I have met enough deluded brainwashed wan**** even in the UK living in denial and who still see some sort of a halo around a man who was, at best, a sadistic psycho.

p.s. Knowing by past experience how sensitive some members can get on this issue, would remove this post later tonite.
Good post Ajatshatru.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

rohitvats wrote: I can see you piling nonsense about soldiers who did their earnest duty but call Bhindarwala as "misguided"? And this misguided idiot bought firearms into the temple complex, turned Golden Temple into a fortress and reduced what you call as Sanctum Sanctorum into his personal fiefdom but nary a word against him I hear anyone speak. Why?

So, take you religious bile and nonsense somewhere else.
First arms is part of Sikhism
I am presenting my view if you don't like OK, i have no problem but who you are ask me to leave this forum why are you resorting to personal attack because i am not agree to views provide here.
Nobody born terrorist
rohitvats wrote: So, civilians were killed on orders of Senior Army officers and political leadership. You have proof to back this or are you resorting to Lahori logic and conspiracy theories displayed by the greens across the border? What was to be gained by killing innocent people?

You think Army is bunch of sadistic murderous goons out to kill people for its own pleasure? IA has fought numerous counter-insurgency campaigns in this country - how many times have you come across instances of IA killing people in cold blood at the direction of seniors or as a policy?
COIN operation are different you know what you are facing but in siege you don't know who other person is as that guy maybe innocent, because soldier have no clear army directive than is the cause innocent killing.
Oh! yes...the all time favorite argument... IA desecrated the Golden Temple. What was Bhindarwala doing with his posse of goons and weapons inside the Complex? Playing Cowboy and Indians? How come no one raises this point?

So, Akal Takhat had many bullet marks...why don't you explain why the Army had to fire towards it in the first place? How come the blame rests on the Army while it was the so called champions of Sikh faith who had made Akal Takhat a veritable fortress? Why is this little point missed out in the narrative?
every fortress has own weakness, why army tactics resort to heavy shelling when they can wait and watch whole damage cause by army generals eagerness to quickly close the chapter
sh*t-head Bhindarwala?
that word generally refer by American for Talibanis who wear turban we too wear it so tell what i assume you think about Sikh community
And why would personnel letters be stored at Sikh Library? that of a fire fight between IA and militants holed up in the Sikh Library where a hand-grenade from one of the sides started the fire.
That the my question too. and about grenade how can you confirm it whole scenarios was not clear but i posting what i read it in open press or net
The assault was planned for Gurpurab Day because another custodians of Sikh faith, the Akali Dal, had announced to carry out a state wide morcha on 3rd June. Why could not have they postponed it knowing fully well the situation in Punjab and the Amritsar? Were they trying to put pressure on the GOI and morcha would have been used to pressure the government to lift the siege? Very likely so...and there was a precedent to it.
Whole situation is blown out of proposition because of lack of vision they can have time also indulge in talk by sending elder inside, they do now too
I am not supporting Brar attack but want to clear that Brar is no hero. he is rat in living in hole, he know what he did, every sikh hate him and always do.
By extension of your logic, anyone who took part in that operation is a rat....including Lt. General PC Katoch who actually led the 1 PARA(SF) charge on Akal Takhat...Sorry, but please take this BS somewhere else where they have wet dreams about Khalistan. These people were professional soldiers who carried out their duty to the best of their abilities. And they do this day in and day out - even the Kashmiris hate them, so do people in Nagaland and anywhere else who have had wet dreams of breaking this nation.
again Rohit if you cant listen to other please dont be Mod here. i am here from 4years with clean record.
Did you watch the movie "A Bridge too far" how general simply walk away with scarifying his soldiers
I don't see Sikhs in Punjab disowning Congress which was the chief architect of what went wrong. Did killing IG absolve everyone else in the Congress? But it is the Army which must be vilified.
This is the irony of Punjab perhaps whole of India which lack a solid opposition Congress is god corruption
These men are real heroes in every sense of the world - at least to those who do not see them through coloured glasses of religion or regionalism.
Army now come long way,
Army makes hero but one zero is zero.

I am not supporter of Khalistan i am never. but Army can handle the situation better.

i see lot people don't like my post down the line. Sorry dear this my post my view.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

Ajatshatru wrote:Having retired from BRF a while back, back just for this one off post after reading an absolutely dimwit post by a member on this forum.

INC, in order to counter the Akalis, brought an illiterate Granthi Bhindrawalla to centre stage….a Frankenstein monster who later even went out of control of the Congress….

This man was a cold bloodied murderer/a sadistic madman. Any person eulogising this man needs the urgent help of a shrink.

My own Sikh neighbour had gone visiting the Golden Temple once and once there was told to meet Bhindrawalla. Bhindrawalla told him to take a chit out of a jar which Bhindrawalla had in his room. When my neighbour took out the chit from a jar, the chit contained the name of a Hindu family and Bhindrawalla told this Sikh to murder this family. When my neighbour refused to do so, Bhindrawalla told him ‘then before leaving write your name and address on a chit and drop it in a jar”....

There was news that Bhindrawalla was about to declare Khalistan and some countries around the world would recognise it immediately after the declaration, so the ruling Congress party ordered the army, among other things, to flush out the terrorists from the temple.

Some people (e.g. a member here) now may have “convenient amnesia” regarding those days, but I still remember seeing on a TV channel at that time the amount of weapons that were dumped by Bhindrawalla and Co. in the pond that were later flushed out by the army. I also remember seeing on TV 100s of woman that were being rescued by the army that were forcibly kept by Bhindrawalla and his pack of goons for their personal enjoyment inside the temple.

I know there would be a hue and cry by certain members on reading this post and demand for me to be banned by the Mods, but as stated I have already retired from this forum and made an exception for this one off post after reading the absolute garbage posted by a member on this forum. But, at one level, such a post really does not surprise me, as I have met enough deluded brainwashed wan**** even in the UK living in denial and who still see some sort of a halo around a man who was, at best, a sadistic psycho.

p.s. Knowing by past experience how sensitive some members can get on this issue, would remove this post later tonite.
Well dear i am agree that in later life he become moron but what i try to say that in early life he is good person but .. i think people jump to conclusion here.
what your neighbor told you than i see myself lot in 84 i don't want remember.
Army is in my blood did not want diminish the value but some people just jump to conclusion
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

admins why is this nonsense being allowed???


all big talks of we sikhs this and that

but when bhindranwale ran his butchery from the Golden temple all of you just slinked away with your tail between your legs. at that point the purity of the Golden temple never rose in your minds. A DGP was killed in the temple while praying and you did not raise a peep.

only when men in olive green trying their best against the machine gun nests wrenched back the temple - you suddenly found your voice - to criticize the army.



I am not supporter of Khalistan i am never. but Army can handle the situation better.

i see lot people don't like my post down the line. Sorry dear this my post my view
actually you are - there is a thin line between a proud sikh and a khalistani

you went over long ago.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by eklavya »

sarabpal.s wrote:I am not supporting Brar attack but want to clear that Brar is no hero.
he is rat in living in hole, he know what he did, every sikh hate him and always do.
You can hate him, but you cannot call him or any other soldier of the Indian Army a "rat" on this forum.

Mods: please take stern action against this poster.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

eklavya wrote:
sarabpal.s wrote:I am not supporting Brar attack but want to clear that Brar is no hero.
he is rat in living in hole, he know what he did, every sikh hate him and always do.
You can hate him, but you cannot call him or any other soldier of the Indian Army a "rat" on this forum.

Mods: please take stern action against this poster.
He is the one who hiding. he is retired one with lots history behind him. he never go back to Punjab after that why because he know what he did. biggest think is other than killing Bhiderawala he never accept his shortcoming or government ask to shut up for life in lieu security.
IMHO
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

Surya wrote:admins why is this nonsense being allowed???


all big talks of we sikhs this and that

but when bhindranwale ran his butchery from the Golden temple all of you just slinked away with your tail between your legs. at that point the purity of the Golden temple never rose in your minds. A DGP was killed in the temple while praying and you did not raise a peep.

only when men in olive green trying their best against the machine gun nests wrenched back the temple - you suddenly found your voice - to criticize the army.



I am not supporter of Khalistan i am never. but Army can handle the situation better.

i see lot people don't like my post down the line. Sorry dear this my post my view
actually you are - there is a thin line between a proud sikh and a khalistani

you went over long ago.
No not again, one after another everyone so abusive here what i should say. i did not utter single n abusive word about any member and what you write here is totally unnecessary personal attack
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

you call the Indian army men who went to the Golden temple on orders from the elected GOI, in barefoot and not firing back if fire came from certain directions - RATS. Men who got mowed down without being able to fire back.

that was not abusive???

awww and suddenly you are thin skinned.


there was nothing abusive - just plain facts being mentioned. you cannot try to distance yourself from Khalistani camp with views like you have

simble
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by eklavya »

sarabpal,

You are using highly offensive abusive language to describe a retired Indian Army man. You should not be on this forum. Nobody here agrees with your views or your manner of expressing them. Everyone on this forum except for you considers KS Brar to be a great soldier, a great Sikh, and a great Indian. Your sympathies are with a dead terrorist. Go to another online community: Bharat Rakshak is not for people like you.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

Surya wrote:
all big talks of we sikhs this and that

all of you just slinked away with your tail between your legs.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by RoyG »

I am not supporter of Khalistan i am never. but Army can handle the situation better.

i see lot people don't like my post down the line. Sorry dear this my post my view
Just admit that you're a Khalistani. It's ok. We have all sorts of drones on BRF. However, the difference is that they know not to tarnish the selfless service of individuals belonging to particular apolitical institutions of this country. Shape up or ship out.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by chandrabhan »

sarabpal.s wrote:
rohitvats wrote: I can see you piling nonsense about soldiers .... into his personal fiefdom but nary a word against him I hear anyone speak. Why?

So, take you religious bile and nonsense somewhere else.
First ..terrorist
rohitvats wrote: So, civilians ...policy?
COIN... killing.
Oh! yes...this point?

So, Akal ..out in the narrative?
every ..the chapter
sh*t-head Bhindarwala?
that word generally refer by American for Talibanis who wear turban we too wear it so tell what i assume you think about Sikh community....

Sarabpal,
Dont speak for Sikh Community by generalizing.I care two hoots what your personal opinion is, you may sympathise with Talibani yahoos & hate the Americans for calling them names.
I normally refrain from posting due to my views on BRF going too leftist and cowardly in allowing criticism. However I will make an exception, Bhindrawala was sadistic village bumpkin propped up by IG. The number of women rescued by IA from Golden temple complex will testify.

I am born of a Sikh mother, have 2 younger brothers, 1 nephew and 1 cousin (Sikh) serving. People who justify Bhindrawala's action of getting arms into golden temple and capturing akal takhta lower the stature & teachings of Guru. If need arise in future to kill another Bhindrawala if he dare repeat the misdeeds, He must be chopped off. Future of Sikhs is too tied with Sanatan and this land.

I am sorry MODS for ranting. You are free to take down my post
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

RoyG wrote:
I am not supporter of Khalistan i am never. but Army can handle the situation better.

i see lot people don't like my post down the line. Sorry dear this my post my view
Just admit that you're a Khalistani. It's ok. We have all sorts of drones on BRF. However, the difference is that they know not to tarnish the selfless service of individuals belonging to particular apolitical institutions of this country. Shape up or ship out.
dear again please if you stop refering me as khalistani. i criticised him because what he did
it.
i am very well in shape ,thanks
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

Interesting - you chose to post this part of my post
all of you just slinked away with your tail between your legs.

out of this whole line - which none of you can deny and will forever remain a blot in your history
but when bhindranwale ran his butchery from the Golden temple all of you just slinked away with your tail between your legs. at that point the purity of the Golden temple never rose in your minds. A DGP was killed in the temple while praying and you did not raise a peep
and thats not abusive - again a uncomfortable fact that you have to live with since you crossed the thin line and went over to Khalistan
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by chandrabhan »

Anyone who has travelled to Punjab in those heady days would remember what it did to the people in hinterland. Scared to go out, Proliferation of Drugs, Weapons and terror. People settled personal scores and some people glorify Bhindarwala and talk about Khalistan and so called treachery of Dogras..
Let me set some records straight.
1. Khalistanis now promote being that Zorawar Singh is a Sikh is a blatant lie – In fact Zorawar Singh was a Rajput Hindu from Jammu leading an army of Dogra Soldier first into Gilgit and Baltistan (present day Pakistan) and then deep into Tibet fighting with the imperial Chinese army – he even claimed he was marching to Lake Mansoravor the lake associated with Lord Shiva.
The Sikh governor of Mohan Singh intrigued with the Nawabs of Gilgit and Baltistan to unsuccessfully oppose Zorawar Singh and attempted to cut of the supplies of the Dogras despite the Dogras fighting under the banner of the Sikh Empire.
2. It was a Hindu army which led the force which liberated the Golden Temple after its desecration by Afghans
3. Khalistani Idiots talk of the Sikhs capturing Delhi 11 times – This is totally untrue and I challenge them to prove the same. The only evidence we could partially uncover in this respect is of a Sikh leader – Baghel Singh acting as a mercenary for Ghulam Qadir and his forces in their battles with the Marathas – You cannot call looting, rapine and destructive raids as being conquering a city
4. Another nonsense peddled by half brained Khalistanis is that Sikhs had an independent state before their defeat by the British.Refer to Latifs history and the recent work by Dhavan and you will note that the Malwa Sikhs particularly under the Patiala kings often worked at variance to that of the Sikhs of Doaba and Majha – on one occasion the Rajah of Patiala had to beg forgiveness and went under the protection of Jassa Singh and when he again bowed before the Afghans it was only with difficulty that Jassa Singh could restrain the other Sikhs from wanting to kill the Patiala Sikh Maharajah – Although the Sikhs did unite in moments of overall danger to talk of an overall ‘Sikh army’ is utterly wrong and misleading

Note when the Marathas were fighting on the plains of Punjab and the Golden Temple was desecrated by Abdali in his army marched Ala Singh and thousands of his soldiers who stood quietly by whilst the holy temple was polluted

If people want more truth on this then guide me to another thread. What is the difference between Ala singh who watched Abdali desecrate Golden temple while he watched & Poster here who is justifying similar acts by Bhindarwala. Eventually, it was Hindu army that captured the temple back from Afghans.

Sorry for OT but this is unbearable.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

Surya wrote:Interesting - you chose to post this part of my post
all of you just slinked away with your tail between your legs.

out of this whole line - which none of you can deny and will forever remain a blot your history
well you just refering to whole sikh community.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

chandrabhan wrote:Anyone who has travelled to Punjab in those heady days would remember what it did to the people in hinterland. Scared to go out, Proliferation of Drugs, Weapons and terror. People settled personal scores and some people glorify Bhindarwala and talk about Khalistan and so called treachery of Dogras..
Let me set some records straight.
1. Khalistanis now promote being that Zorawar Singh is a Sikh is a blatant lie – In fact Zorawar Singh was a Rajput Hindu from Jammu leading an army of Dogra Soldier first into Gilgit and Baltistan (present day Pakistan) and then deep into Tibet fighting with the imperial Chinese army – he even claimed he was marching to Lake Mansoravor the lake associated with Lord Shiva.
The Sikh governor of Mohan Singh intrigued with the Nawabs of Gilgit and Baltistan to unsuccessfully oppose Zorawar Singh and attempted to cut of the supplies of the Dogras despite the Dogras fighting under the banner of the Sikh Empire.
2. It was a Hindu army which led the force which liberated the Golden Temple after its desecration by Afghans
3. Khalistani Idiots talk of the Sikhs capturing Delhi 11 times – This is totally untrue and I challenge them to prove the same. The only evidence we could partially uncover in this respect is of a Sikh leader – Baghel Singh acting as a mercenary for Ghulam Qadir and his forces in their battles with the Marathas – You cannot call looting, rapine and destructive raids as being conquering a city
4. Another nonsense peddled by half brained Khalistanis is that Sikhs had an independent state before their defeat by the British.Refer to Latifs history and the recent work by Dhavan and you will note that the Malwa Sikhs particularly under the Patiala kings often worked at variance to that of the Sikhs of Doaba and Majha – on one occasion the Rajah of Patiala had to beg forgiveness and went under the protection of Jassa Singh and when he again bowed before the Afghans it was only with difficulty that Jassa Singh could restrain the other Sikhs from wanting to kill the Patiala Sikh Maharajah – Although the Sikhs did unite in moments of overall danger to talk of an overall ‘Sikh army’ is utterly wrong and misleading

Note when the Marathas were fighting on the plains of Punjab and the Golden Temple was desecrated by Abdali in his army marched Ala Singh and thousands of his soldiers who stood quietly by whilst the holy temple was polluted

If people want more truth on this then guide me to another thread. What is the difference between Ala singh who watched Abdali desecrate Golden temple while he watched & Poster here who is justifying similar acts by Bhindarwala. Eventually, it was Hindu army that captured the temple back from Afghans.

Sorry for OT but this is unbearable.
we start with brar vs bhinderawala

but you just change the course by bring in hindu vs sikh theory
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

No - It was a reference to all you who claim pride in your Sikh heritage and did nothing when the Golden Temple was desecrated and murder committed in it of one of your pious own.

unfortunately at the time it was a majority so what can I do - you have to live with it.

Did I see big turnout to protest against desecration? NO

Did I see prominent individuals protest - NO


Only a few Sikhs wanted the Govt to go in as soon DGP atwal was killed. Oh by the way his body lay for 2 hours in the temple while his killers celebrated
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

Surya wrote:No - It was a reference to all you who claim pride in your Sikh heritage and did nothing when the Golden Temple was desecrated and murder committed in it of one of your pious own.

unfortunately at the time it was a majority so what can I do so you have to live with it.

Did I see big turnout to protest against desecration? NO

Did I see prominent individuals protest - NO


Only a few Sikhs wanted the Govt to go in as soon DGP atwal was killed. Oh by the way his body lay for 2 hours in the temple while his killers celebrated
t
first i never glorified killing by khalistani you can go by whole post i done today. my main meaning of criticisms here history lost in golden temple.

but here people attack me for being sikh.
i feel like in 80is where sikh abused at everystep.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

people attack you for claiming to be a sikh and abusing the indian army and its men who went in to clean the Golden temple

you have serious comprehension problems and I will wait for the admin lathi charge on this

as for 80s you forget how many innocents were mercilessly killed by Bhindranwales goons.
your pretentious anguish just indicates where your sympathy lies
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by chandrabhan »

sarabpal.s wrote:
chandrabhan wrote:Anyone ..If people want more truth on this then guide me to another thread. What is the difference between Ala singh who watched Abdali desecrate Golden temple while he watched & Poster here who is justifying similar acts by Bhindarwala. Eventually, it was Hindu army that captured the temple back from Afghans.

Sorry for OT but this is unbearable.
we start with brar vs bhinderawala

but you just change the course by bring in hindu vs sikh theory
I dont think you get it Sir. It is about a mindset that eulogizes Profanity conducted by Bhindarwala & finding faults with someone fulfilling duty towards nation & Panth. In my mind there in no comparison between Gen Brar & Bhindarwala.

IA took bullets without firing back in the early attempts. This pussyfooting on criticising the desecration by Bhindarwala rests on certain idiotic myths & alleged empire that exists in the head of Idiots.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by eklavya »

sarabpal.s wrote:but here people attack me for being sikh.
i feel like in 80is where sikh abused at everystep.
The only Sikh abused on this thread was KS Brar and you are the abuser.

Don't play the victim card, when you are the abuser.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by chandrabhan »

sarabpal.s wrote:
Surya wrote:No -

but here people attack me for being sikh.
i feel like in 80is where sikh abused at everystep.
This is one of the reasons why stopped posting.

Dear Sarabpal,
You are not the only Sikh and you remind me of a Piskology argument

Mickey Mouse = Disney land (thus omitting all the other residents or adherents of that town called disney land)

Any attack or criticism of Mickey mouse = criticism of disney land.

Once you grow up to understand why you feel cornered in the first place you will know we understand you have Khalistani sympathies & amply displayed. The whole slandering of Gen Brar for doing his duty & overlooking at the reason who lead to this situation stands on your diet of Khalistani myths. Remember you are not disneyland & stop pretending to represent the community.

I am out of writing anything more on this.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sarabpal.s »

i think i had enough to clarify in all the post. no more posting on this topic.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

good riddance
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by sanjaykumar »

Err......just what is wrong in recognising Santji Bhindanawale sahib as a great Sikh?
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Gurneesh »

Ajay Sharma wrote:Attack on Harmandir Sahib in Op Blue Star was a classic case of "how not to" - be it in terms of poor tactics, inapprorpiate equipment, lack of clear objectives, timing, failure of ground intelligence etc... Op Black Thunder on the other hand was a classic case of "how to".

There was surely a realization and learning that Blue Star was a complete disaster esp for the common Sikh and the Army. The bond is too deep of the Sikhs and the Indian Army and it took some beating during that time.

However, lets also not forget that while there were major screwups on part of the Army (I don't even want discuss on GoI and Congress and IG's role since they completely and comprehensively F***ed up), a lot of people conveniently overlook the role of chumps like Bhindarawale and and his bunch in and outside Harmandir Sahib

Brar, Vaidya were instruments of a larger game and they were primarily executing their directives. Remember that Lt. Gen. SK Sinha was overlooked for the top job because he didnt agree to IG's diktat on the approach towards the operation. I would simply state that he was a bigger and a more sensible man to have had the long sightedness on this explosive issue. The other 2 were not as sensible... but not in any sense of the term malicious or evil. They simple tried to do what was told to them...
+ 1000 to this.

People call Bhindrawale a terrorist plus a host of other expletives. I have no problem with that maybe he deserved that, but then the same people should also tag the same expletives (even harsher) to politicians like IG, Giani Zial Singh etc. who for their nefarious political means played with the faith of millions and supported Bhindrawale even when it was sufficiently clear the he was becoming a monster. And they were insensitive enough to take rash actions when he stopped playing their tone.

So, I have an issue when posts here say " IG propped up ass**** mo********ing Bhindranwale" as it should really say "ass**** mo********ing IG propped up ass**** mo********ing Bhindranwale".

Let there be no duality in criticism.

Also, IA says that they were just fulfilling their duty. Gov figures state that > 400 innocents lost their life in Blue Star. That is a lot of collateral damage. Is it not the responsibility of the establishment and IA to prevent that.

People tend to blame Bhindrawale for Blue Star, IMHO blame squarely lies with IG and the congress leadership. Because if you let a manic roam free and give him immense power, he will cause extreme amounts of trouble.

It is really a shame that congress can even win elections in Punjab (specially after 84 riots). I as a sikh am really ashamed of that fact.

Try googling about blue star and all you see is scores of reports of alleged human rights violations conducted by army. Now they could be true or could be blatant lies and propaganda who knows. No one can deny it or prove it because GOI in its infinite wisdom did not allow any press on the scene. But any nri youngster reading that is sure to hate Gen Brar. Really there is no concrete information on whether IA conducted itself in correct spirit or not.

FWIW, dunno how accurate this is but seems like a good read http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publicati ... hood4.htm#

PS. As a side note how many here brand a patriot like Gen Shabeg Singh as a terrorist? And who is responsible for that ?
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Post by Surya »

Shabeg was no patriot


once he trained his guns on his fellow soldiers - dont care what excuses - he is a terrorist



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