Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sum » 30 Oct 2012 09:02

New battle for next army chief

The dust has barely settled after General VK Singh’s Supreme Court battle to be army chief for another year. Now another senior army general is approaching court with a petition that, if accepted, could make him the next army chief instead of Lt Gen Dalbir Singh, the Eastern Army commander who is currently in line.

Business Standard has learned that Lt Gen Ravi Dastane, currently the Deputy Chief of the tri-service Integrated Defence Staff, will shortly file a petition with the Armed Forces Tribunal, a high-court level legal body that adjudicates on military matters.

“My client has been unfairly denied the appointment of army commander, for which he fulfilled every condition. Instead, a post was kept vacant for Lt Gen Dalbir Singh who was under a vigilance ban. This was procedurally incorrect, and I will request the Honourable court to set it aside,” says Major (Retired) Sudhansu Pande, who will represent Gen Dastane in court.

After commanding the Leh-based 14 Corps in 2011-12, Gen Dastane is eligible to be appointed an army commander, a pre-requisite for becoming army chief. The army has seven commands: six geographical (northern, western, south-western, southern, central and eastern); and one functional command, the Army Training Command or ARTRAC. There is also the tri-service Andaman & Nicobar Command, which is commanded in turn by officers from the army, navy and air force.

The key date in the current dispute is 31st May 2012, when two army commanders’ posts fell vacant with the retirement of former army chief, Gen VK Singh, and the western army commander, Lt Gen Shankar Ghosh. Army records examined by Business Standard indicate that the three senior-most generals on that day who were eligible to become army commanders (the pre-requisite being that they must have commanded a corps) were, in order of seniority: Lt Gen Dalbir Singh; followed by Lt Gen Sanjiv Chachra; followed by Lt Gen Ravi Dastane.

As was widely reported in the media at the time (and corroborated by Major Pande), Lt Gen Dalbir Singh was under a discipline and vigilance (DV) ban, having received a show-cause notice from the former army chief, Gen VK Singh, for a botched operation by the 3 Corps Intelligence Unit under Dalbir’s command.

With Dalbir ineligible for elevation because of the DV ban, the army appointed Chachra as western army commander (MS Branch signal 388218/2012/MS(X)/79 dated 30th May 12). Dastane, however, was not given the second army commander vacancy. Instead, it was kept vacant until Lt Gen Dalbir Singh’s show cause notice was nullified on 8th June by Gen Bikram Singh, who had taken over as army chief.

On 15th June, Lt Gen Dalbir Singh was appointed the eastern army commander through MS Branch signal 388246/2012/MS(X)/94 dated 15th Jun 12. Two weeks later, the MS Branch restored his seniority of 1st June 2012, through MS Branch letter A/45751/2012/LG/Army Cdr/EC/MS(X) dated 24th June 12.

Dastane’s Statutory Complaint to the MoD, filed on 6th August, objects to the differential standards applied, in which one vacancy was filled by appointing Lt Gen Chachra, while “reserving” one vacancy for Lt Gen Dalbir Singh, and granting him retrospective seniority.

“They appointed Lt Gen Chachra because he was retiring on 31st May 12. But my client was as eligible as him, and if Chachra was considered for army commanders’ appt on 31st May, that concession should also have been given to me. The government could have taken a stand that we will not appoint anyone before Dalbir’s show-cause notice is resolved. But they considered and appointed Chachra,” points out Pande.

The next army commander’s vacancy arises only on 31st January, by when Dastane would have less than two years of residual service, rendering him ineligible as per current guidelines to be appointed army commander.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_22906 » 30 Oct 2012 17:18

rohitvats wrote:^^^^and compare the situation with ours.....India paid homage to those who laid down their lives in 1962 for the first tjme this year...and yet, day after day, night after night, war after war, young men don't hesitate to walk down the path of martyrs...sigh!!!


One of the most touching phrases I saw in one of the war memorials in Arunachal Pradesh was "When you go back home, tell them about us... Beacuse for your tomorrow, we gave our today..."

It still moves me whenever I think of this

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23629 » 30 Oct 2012 17:44

Ajay Sharma wrote:
rohitvats wrote:^^^^and compare the situation with ours.....India paid homage to those who laid down their lives in 1962 for the first tjme this year...and yet, day after day, night after night, war after war, young men don't hesitate to walk down the path of martyrs...sigh!!!


One of the most touching phrases I saw in one of the war memorials in Arunachal Pradesh was "When you go back home, tell them about us... Beacuse for your tomorrow, we gave our today..."

It still moves me whenever I think of this


From Wikipedia:
The War Cemetery in Kohima has the famous inscription "When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say, For Your Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today" — The Kohima Epitaph is attributed to John Maxwell Edmonds (1875–1958), and is thought to have been inspired by the epitaph of Simonides written by Simonides to honour the Spartans who fell at the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC.[3]

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Samay » 30 Oct 2012 18:57

I think these true warriors of India( like those of 1962) ,they never die, they just change their body and take rebirth to defend this land again and again, because in the end ,this is what they love, and if the theory of Karma is true then their Karma for this , is already done but remains unpaid in return ,and so ,it makes it possible..
just a thought..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby merlin » 30 Oct 2012 21:33


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_22906 » 30 Oct 2012 21:47

varunkumar wrote:From Wikipedia:
The War Cemetery in Kohima has the famous inscription "When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say, For Your Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today" — The Kohima Epitaph is attributed to John Maxwell Edmonds (1875–1958), and is thought to have been inspired by the epitaph of Simonides written by Simonides to honour the Spartans who fell at the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC.[3]



Thanks varunkumar. Perhaps that is what it was. However, never been to Kohima. Saw in the Bomdila-Sela-Tawang sector. Not remembering the exact place

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 30 Oct 2012 22:25

that phrase has been reused in other war cemetaries as well, i think in Pune for one

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 30 Oct 2012 23:11



So, Shukla is down to writing trash like this.......hmmmmm....could it be due to his new found avatar of being close to establishment? After all, if reports are to be believed, he was part of CORE GROUP of Track 2 delegation which agreed on Siachen CBM....

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vivek_ahuja » 30 Oct 2012 23:26

rohitvats wrote:


So, Shukla is down to writing trash like this.......hmmmmm....could it be due to his new found avatar of being close to establishment? After all, if reports are to be believed, he was part of CORE GROUP of Track 2 delegation which agreed on Siachen CBM....


Or could it be that the truth is causing us Takleef when its put out there in blunt terms? Not that I am disagreeing that the picture he paints is bleaker than what might be the case if one considers the organization size etc. Both sides are vulnerable to hyperbole, but is what he is saying totally untrue?

If we shoot the messenger, does it make the message go away?

Maybe I am rambling about nothing, but I would still like to see his allegations (especially about the Lt-Generals and their actions that he mentions mid way through the article) verified before I trash his article. A lot of folks here are knowledgeable about this. Can they elaborate?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23629 » 31 Oct 2012 00:52

rohitvats wrote:


So, Shukla is down to writing trash like this.......hmmmmm....could it be due to his new found avatar of being close to establishment? After all, if reports are to be believed, he was part of CORE GROUP of Track 2 delegation which agreed on Siachen CBM....


Agree. The venom the idiot spits on the army, especially those who fought in the China war, is beneath contempt. It is a hit job.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Will » 31 Oct 2012 01:16

So, Shukla is down to writing trash like this.......hmmmmm....could it be due to his new found avatar of being close to establishment? After all, if reports are to be believed, he was part of CORE GROUP of Track 2 delegation which agreed on Siachen CBM..

Or could it be that the truth is causing us Takleef when its put out there in blunt terms? Not that I am disagreeing that the picture he paints is bleaker than what might be the case if one considers the organization size etc. Both sides are vulnerable to hyperbole, but is what he is saying totally untrue?

If we shoot the messenger, does it make the message go away?

Maybe I am rambling about nothing, but I would still like to see his allegations (especially about the Lt-Generals and their actions that he mentions mid way through the article) verified before I trash his article. A lot of folks here are knowledgeable about this. Can they elaborate?[/quote]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are right Vivek. Its high time we all stopped burying our heads in the sand like an Ostrich pretending that everything is hunky dory. Not everything in the article maybe be right but there are some blunt truths in there.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 31 Oct 2012 01:30

Well, I am certainly not going to say that the there is no wrong in the Army, but the above article is sheer trash. The tone of venom against what are Chiefs of Army staff (and his superior officers) is breathtaking -- there is more personal rancor being exhibited than a shred of fact.

This is what is typically called a hatchet job.

I wonder what can be seen as right in the above.

vivek_ahuja wrote: Both sides are vulnerable to hyperbole, but is what he is saying totally untrue?


Which are both sides Vivek? Seriously?

And in any case since when did Shukla get licence to behave like a irresponsible reporter and muddy water with hyperbole? If he is going to behave like Burka Dutt, then at the very least he can drop the pretense of once being a soldier?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby eklavya » 31 Oct 2012 03:13

The article about the opportunistic Lt Gen trying to manoeuvre himself into the next COAS slot is more worrying. The Indian Navy used to be famous for it succession battles. The Indian Army's senior officers seem to be setting a new 'low standard' for sheer bloody-minded naked ambition, espirit de corp be damned.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vivek_ahuja » 31 Oct 2012 03:57

Sanku wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote: Both sides are vulnerable to hyperbole, but is what he is saying totally untrue?


Which are both sides Vivek? Seriously?


I guess I should elaborate what I meant earlier.

When I think of two sides, I am saying that there is this one side to which the vast majority of the DDM and Politicos fall into. For them the Indian Military is a large parasitic organization full of incompetents blah blah blah. To this side, the 1962 war was a military defeat while the poor politicians were let down by the armed forces. They conveniently ignore the sacrifices made by the soldiers who fought under very adverse conditions often to the last man and bullet.

Then there is this other nationalistic side to whom the 1962 war was a total debacle traceable to the upper echelons of political control only. For whom the Indian Military is so sacrosanct that any mention of mistakes/faults/cowardice events etc is anathema and they will come out with phrases like:

The venom the idiot spits on the army, especially those who fought in the China war, is beneath contempt. It is a hit job.


To this group, any mention of mistakes made by units and commanders in the field is not to be mentioned because it reflects poorly on the soldiers who did fight bravely. [As a side-note: I have never understood why people feel this way. Surely mistakes and errors done in the past must be admitted and revisited and understood for future situations? Same goes for someone who points out the leadership rot at the top. So why behave like Pakistanis do when it comes to analyzing our mistakes? The 1962 war ruined a lot of careers within the Indian Army not only because we lost the war, but also because folks were caught fleeing from the battlefield, field commanders were clueless in dire situations and higher command had no clear strategy for war. To mention these is in no way to spit on the memory of those others who DID fight bravely and held their ground to the last breath. Nor does it reduce the interference and incompetency of the Politicians down from Nehru and others.]

Anyway, this second group will trash the other side for suggesting otherwise. Shukla must not talk ill about his senior officers because they are his senior officers (forgetting that he no longer actively serving and so must hide anything wrong he sees). Forgetting Shukla at the moment; had it been anybody who comes and points a finger at the top and says a set of things that are wrong, must it always be because its a hit-job and not because it might actually be true to a certain extent? Let's shoot the messenger for sacrilege!

And I am sitting here thinking why this must be so? Surely there are points in Shukla's article that are true (And also a bunch of others that are probably made up or false or just his opinions)? Because he mentions one sentence about the 1962 war, he becomes everything from trash to hit-job to whatever? There is no middle ground here? We can't discuss the points he makes about the senior Generals today and separate out his opinion/comment about the 1962 war?

And again, let me say this: If what you all feel is so utterly false in the article, why not point those out and correct them for the record here, instead of stereotyping BRF response for the world to see? Which has greater professionalism?

Anyway, hopefully this clarifies my horror to see the polarization I am seeing here and also in the comments section under Shukla's article. Feel free to disregard these thoughts if I have offended anybody.

-Vivek

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Gurneesh » 31 Oct 2012 07:18

This news :
"MoD nod for Rs 6,000-cr purchase"
http://idrw.org/?p=15299

The ministry cleared proposals to buy 3,000 Light Support Vehicles (LSVs) for the Army at a cost of Rs 1,500 crore. Ministry officials said the Army wants more rugged vehicles for its troops deployed in Jammu and Kashmir and the Northeast.


Looks like they finally decided which LSV to buy. I wonder which one. But at 1500 crores each one costs 50 lakhs !!

IIRC, recently there was an article wherein a DRDO order for a single TATRA was cancelled. That order was also supposed to cost around 62 lakhs.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby schowdhuri » 31 Oct 2012 08:22

rohitvats wrote:


So, Shukla is down to writing trash like this.......hmmmmm....could it be due to his new found avatar of being close to establishment? After all, if reports are to be believed, he was part of CORE GROUP of Track 2 delegation which agreed on Siachen CBM....


Rohitvats,
With your background, it cannot be that you are not aware that both the points (misuse of staff, and troops running away in 1962) Col. Shukla writes about are very true - and have been true for quite a while. What is the trash he is writing?

My fathers best friend (Lt. Goswami) stayed back with a platoon to cover the retreat of a full brigade, and they all died fighting. Forget a medal, nothing is mentioned about the action, so that the officers of the brigade who ran away could tell tall stories about how well they fought and were outnumbered. The 1962 saga is full of such incidents which I am sure you are well aware of.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Avik » 31 Oct 2012 08:42

so that the officers of the brigade who ran away could tell tall stories about how well they fought and were outnumbered.


schowdhuri: I am not sure what tall tales you're referring to here? Within the IA, 1962 is is very well accepted for the debacle it was. I am not aware of any senior officer in the Eastern Comm from 1962 that tells tall tales. Infact, the immediate distaste in the aftermath was so much that all requests for gallantry awards from the few units that stood and fought in the eastern sector like 2 Rajput was also turned down. Again, I dont know whether you're aware, but the 4 Div was ignominously made to march back on foot all the way from NEFA to Allahabad after the war.
The situation in Ladakh was much better, and those actions are well recognized a-la 13 Kumaon.
But I'm still not aware of any senior officer spinning yarns about 62 operation atleast from the Eastern Comm.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vivek_ahuja » 31 Oct 2012 08:51

Avik wrote:But I'm still not aware of any senior officer spinning yarns about 62 operation atleast from the Eastern Comm.


I don't think he meant it as tall tales as much as sympathetic stories that were brought out by some of the senior officers exempting themselves from guilt and allegations of incompetency by showing themselves in good light and transferring the blame higher up the command. If you read the memoirs of folks like Niranjan Prasad (The Fall of Tawang), Brigadier Dalvi's book (Himalayan Blunder), General Sen's thoughts immediately after the war and a bunch of other contemporary articles etc, the trend is the same: "I knew it was going to blow up, I made sure everybody under me was ready, but command messed everything up. I wanted to pull people to better defensive positions, but XYZ with more stars on his collar tab came down and said No etc. And here's how."

A common theme in all those stories is how they were all India's answer to Napoleon and why their plans were screwed up by everyone except themselves.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Avik » 31 Oct 2012 09:29

A common theme in all those stories is how they were all India's answer to Napoleon and why their plans were screwed up by everyone except themselves.


Agreed. But thats what you generally get in autobiographies of army officers, whether Indian, Israeli or American. What else would you expect in a book written by someone about himself!!

The moot point is that most IA officers, generally, see these books as self aggrandizing pieces of fiction. Within the IA, as I said earlier, 62 is accepted for the debacle it was. For the last 50 yrs, the majority of IA's mountain warfare training across all higher and junior leader academies has been geared towards ensuring that 62 and its variants are not repeated.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vivek_ahuja » 31 Oct 2012 09:49

Avik wrote:The moot point is that most IA officers, generally, see these books as self aggrandizing pieces of fiction. Within the IA, as I said earlier, 62 is accepted for the debacle it was. For the last 50 yrs, the majority of IA's mountain warfare training across all higher and junior leader academies has been geared towards ensuring that 62 and its variants are not repeated.


Agreed.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 31 Oct 2012 10:46

Avik wrote:
so that the officers of the brigade who ran away could tell tall stories about how well they fought and were outnumbered.


<SNIP>Again, I dont know whether you're aware, but the 4 Div was ignominiously made to march back on foot all the way from NEFA to Allahabad after the war.<SNIP>



For a very very long time, 4 Div was called 'Punishment Division'.....from what I understand, it used to get immense 'raagda' in everything..from basic day-to-day activity to exercises.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vivek_ahuja » 31 Oct 2012 10:54

rohitvats wrote:For a very very long time, 4 Div was called 'Punishment Division'.....from what I understand, it used to get immense 'raagda' in everything..from basic day-to-day activity to exercises.


Sad. Considering the famous roots of this Division before the war...

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Singha » 31 Oct 2012 11:20

it is now a mountain div and HQed in tezpur right?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 31 Oct 2012 11:30

vivek_ahuja wrote:I guess I should elaborate what I meant earlier.


Thanks for explaining further Vivek, however in reading Shukla's article, you seem to have given focus to the events in 62, I however, gave more focus to the overall events, including now.

In any case I would some what disagree with

Then there is this other nationalistic side to whom the 1962 war was a total debacle traceable to the upper echelons of political control only. For whom the Indian Military is so sacrosanct that any mention of mistakes/faults/cowardice events etc is anathema and they will come out with phrases like:


The fiasco that happened at lower levels too is well understood, its just that most of it is rooted in the very top and started from there. Avik & Rohit has already talked about it so I will not dwell here.

I will however like to respond to a point that appears to have come from my comment --

Shukla must not talk ill about his senior officers because they are his senior officers (forgetting that he no longer actively serving and so must hide anything wrong he sees).


No it is not a question of "Shukla must not talk ill since they are his senior officers" -- the question is of tone -- Shukla can easily make factual points without the sneer and contempt that the article has, in fact the article has more sneer and concept and unsubstantiated allegations flung around (on V K Singh for that matter) -- rather than any facts.

This is sad, in Burka Dutt it would be expected, in Shukla, even given his past track of building up one agenda at cost of everything else -- it is doubly sad.

This is the chief complaint -- and not that Shukla may not write against seniors if something is rotten.

Forgetting Shukla at the moment;


Unfortunately we can not forget Shukla, a whole deal isnot about the message -- it is about those purporting to be the messenger -- and let me be honest you can claim me biased since I have been pointing out a "agenda" in Shukla's writing for a long time, and hence it gives me some satisfaction that his more recent writing bear that out clearly and other BRFites also see it.

Anyway, hopefully this clarifies my horror to see the polarization I am seeing here and also in the comments section under Shukla's article. Feel free to disregard these thoughts if I have offended anybody.


The country is going through severe polarization -- the above is small example of the same.

IMVHO it is a good thing -- very hard to deal with, true, and also not without many ill effects, but good nevertheless.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23629 » 31 Oct 2012 11:52

For a very very long time, 4 Div was called 'Punishment Division'.....from what I understand, it used to get immense 'raagda' in everything..from basic day-to-day activity to exercises.


While the soldiers got quickly punished for deserting their posts, I wish somebody could have similarly frog-marched Nehru and Krishna Menon all the way from Delhi to NEFA. Too bad the louts escaped any punishment and continued on their international five-star junkets as if nothing had happened.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 31 Oct 2012 12:11

Singha wrote:it is now a mountain div and HQed in tezpur right?


It used to be a mountain division (was raised as one) but after 1962 became an Infantry Division. It shifted base to Allahabad where it remains to this day and is part of I Strike Corps. Incidentally, it is the latest Division to convert to RAPID configuration - Army's sixth.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 31 Oct 2012 12:12

vivek_ahuja wrote:
rohitvats wrote:For a very very long time, 4 Div was called 'Punishment Division'.....from what I understand, it used to get immense 'raagda' in everything..from basic day-to-day activity to exercises.


Sad. Considering the famous roots of this Division before the war...


Exactly - and that is what caused all the emotional turmoil in the army. Posting to 4 Division was considered 'Punishment Posting'...and people in army still remember its dubious conduct in 1962 war. As one JCO sahab told me, "Yeh 62 mein bhaag gaye the....".....the stigma stuck for a very long time. Also, as per one anecdote I've heard, General Thapar was refused entry into Rajputana Rifles Mess because of his role in 62 war (I've nothing to back this up)

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby schowdhuri » 31 Oct 2012 12:35

While all this hurts, much of it is true and cannot be glossed over. 4 div was indeed a punishment div. Just to let you know where I am coming from, here is a pic of my father during 1962 ops, and note the formation sign.

Image

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 31 Oct 2012 13:11

schowdhuri wrote: and note the formation sign.


Ok forgive me for being duh, but I can only see crossed Khukri's (regimental sign) and not the formation sign.

What am I missing in my understanding? :|

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby schowdhuri » 31 Oct 2012 13:56

Sanku wrote:
schowdhuri wrote: and note the formation sign.


Ok forgive me for being duh, but I can only see crossed Khukri's (regimental sign) and not the formation sign.

What am I missing in my understanding? :|


That's actually the 4 div sign, red eagle

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 31 Oct 2012 14:13

schowdhuri wrote:
That's actually the 4 div sign, red eagle


Still looks like crossed Khukhri's to me :-(. Time to get eyes checked.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 31 Oct 2012 15:01

Sanku wrote:
schowdhuri wrote:
That's actually the 4 div sign, red eagle


Still looks like crossed Khukhri's to me :-(. Time to get eyes checked.


This is what the formation sign looks like...
Image

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 31 Oct 2012 15:05

rohitvats wrote:
Sanku wrote:
Still looks like crossed Khukhri's to me :-(. Time to get eyes checked.


This is what the formation sign looks like...


Rohit, I knew that already, that is why I said that I need to get my eyes checked (or my head) -- this was not a case of ignorance, this was a case of reading the sign wrong (even now) when I know the individual signs.

:((

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 31 Oct 2012 21:00

In Desmond Young bio of Rommel he quotes the high praise he gave the Red Eagle division in the Africa Campaign.

Again note the division comprises of units from different regiments. Its those units that fled as they were not battle ready. Yet the stigma is to the fighting formation atthe division level.

And by keeping it at that level the Red Eagle division also stopped the rot like Shiv's swallowing the halahal and didn't let it got to the unit level.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 01 Nov 2012 20:53

I finally read shuklas article and comments

sorry I don't think its that far off

If one reads between the lines on Mrs Avasthy's agony - a lot more people seemed to have got away.

regarding lack of intellectual pursuits
at one point some in the AF felt its pilots were more into reading film magazines than aviation journals. I am not that close to army units to comment on what young officers are interested in

when I was closer i got to observe Vij and that was enough

schowdhuri

thanks for the picture - you should really do a veterans page for your dad etc and put it on BR

the Army veteran page needs to get started and we get promises but no one seems to be interested

rohitvats
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 01 Nov 2012 22:19

Something worth reading to understand that 1962 was not only about NEFA and Kaul:

http://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer#view=photo&position=5&with_photo_id=60463145&order=date_desc&user=2203022

There is a whole photo album on Walong in the link above. Do go through it...along with Tawang Sector, this is another vital area from where PLA can ingress in substantial numbers. And which is considered a very vital sector.


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rohitvats
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 02 Nov 2012 00:38

The official history of Indian Armed Forces in WW2 was released recently.

I hope it does justice to one of the most significant (and most overlooked) contributions to the Second World War Effort.

Definitely worth having for your library.

Source:http://chhindits.blogspot.in/2012/10/official-history-of-indian-armed-forces_31.html

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ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 02 Nov 2012 02:37

The panel discussion had no one from IN?

RIN had 150 ships at its height in WWII.

Rohit, My hobby in every new library I visit is to go look up WII collection and see refs to India's role in it.

Katare
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Katare » 02 Nov 2012 03:00

What would be a good book to read on 1962 war? Looking to read more on to the military side of it rather than the political side.

Surya
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 02 Nov 2012 03:58

rohit

thanks
where can one get it

probably weighs a ton


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