Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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chaanakya
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 12:30

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:but then Paki SSG is also exclusively a na-mard unit better suited for assaulting women in burkhas.


:rotfl:

That said, underestimating the enemy's action and capabilities is also a dangerous speculation. As you say, reality is different. But always expect the best and plan for the worst. I am sure Chaanakya would be more than happy buying all of us laddoos when he is proven wrong and the IA launches its response. In the meantime, it should not shame us to admit that the Paki operation was well planned and executed using precise intelligence about Indian dispositions in the sector.

And like Chaanakya, I will buy you all laddoos too for the day I am proven wrong by real world events.


Surely, I would. Bose babu . Would ou like Tirupati Laddoo or Hanumaji Ka Laddo. :)

Lt Gen Parnaik is making mockery of PA in a convincing manner. There is no ' if this recur' or 'next time' etc. in his statement.

Meanwhile Kurshid is talking Peace at any cost as we have invested much into that. Talk of working at cross purposes!







Edited for clarity of meaning of bold part.
Last edited by chaanakya on 15 Jan 2013 14:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 15 Jan 2013 12:56

chaanakya wrote: Yes , That is correct. Perhaps I misunderstood Aditya statement. Gen Paddy , Does he refer to Gen S. Padmanabhan? BTW I am listening to Lt Gen Parnaik . Very nice rebuttal. It is his job to control the rage and tempers of troop under his control.


You're right on Paddy. As for Parnaik, he is the sharpest tool in the box.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Avarachan » 15 Jan 2013 13:51

rohitvats wrote:As for Parnaik, he is the sharpest tool in the box.


Rohit, thanks for the heads-up. Here's a link to the video of the news conference. It's excellent. Finally, an appropriate response. This one "feels" right; it strikes the right balance of being deliberate while yet expressing fury and contempt for Pakistani barbarism.

[url=http//ibnlive.in.com/videos/315835/pakistan-is-unable-to-help-terrorists-getting-frustrated-lt-gen-kt-parnaik.html]LINK[/url]

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nits » 15 Jan 2013 14:27

Flag Meet Pictures

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aaryan » 15 Jan 2013 14:47

My 2 paise on the pictures..
1) Pakistani sent a TFTA ( Tall Fair Thin Ass) commander with a jihadi beard. His shirt is out, and face is grim which gives an impression of a commander of an army which just lost a war. If u look the hands of our commander, he is holding it tight with a firm grip -all the fingers and thumb visible and holding tight- and with a composed aggression on his face ( message clear, we are here to dominate)
2) If u look closely the Indian personals who are siting, they are straight with broad shoulders and open hands they look composed and aggressive, while the pakis are virtually on edge of the seat with down shoulders leaned forward with cross hand. It can be interpreted as they are expecting to be accused, know that they are guilty and hence in defensive posture to with cross hands to dismiss everything and in mode of deniability.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aaryan » 15 Jan 2013 14:55

@ Rohit saar and all the gurus, i have question Do u see any tactical mistake from our side?? The way that fateful patrol was conducted, scouts being too far from rest of the party??

PS: Am not a hidden abdul. Last time i asked uncomfortable questions i was accused oh being a abdul in hiding.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Jan 2013 15:09

Well Aaryan, we aren't at war and no country has the right to behead our soldiers, we can't be 24*7 into tactically correct.

I am sorry, but we are going down the intelligence failure path and only introspecting while completely pardoning those who sit in GHQ Pindi and Perpetrate these crimes

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aaryan » 15 Jan 2013 15:38

Aditya_V wrote: I am sorry, but we are going down the intelligence failure path and only introspecting while completely pardoning those who sit in GHQ Pindi and Perpetrate these crimes



No saar, I am not even thing about that, although this may come up.. I was only asking about if we got too relaxed, was there any tactical mistake from our side as things were heating up for last couple of days.. ( firing in uri sec and all)
Last edited by Aaryan on 15 Jan 2013 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Jan 2013 15:42

Dont know, question is for how many years can we keep it up. It is impossible to catch every stone your neighbor throws to kill you, if he keeps doing it you either die or kill him.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sri » 15 Jan 2013 16:36

Aaryan wrote:@ Rohit saar and all the gurus, i have question Do u see any tactical mistake from our side?? The way that fateful patrol was conducted, scouts being too far from rest of the party??

PS: Am not a hidden abdul. Last time i asked uncomfortable questions i was accused oh being a abdul in hiding.


Aaryan, everything depends on the posture. If the Indians were in hold stance they will not be expecting anything like this. There is no lack of equipment or lack of planning. It's just that we judged the enemy's intention incorrectly. Scouts can't really perform a hold action. Generally enemy will let the scouts pass and attack the main body.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Prabu » 15 Jan 2013 16:57


chaanakya
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 17:33

#TheekHai

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 18:03

rohitvats wrote:
chaanakya wrote: Yes , That is correct. Perhaps I misunderstood Aditya statement. Gen Paddy , Does he refer to Gen S. Padmanabhan? BTW I am listening to Lt Gen Parnaik . Very nice rebuttal. It is his job to control the rage and tempers of troop under his control.


You're right on Paddy. As for Parnaik, he is the sharpest tool in the box.

Due to Govt Manipulation to make BS and COA Parnaik lost chance to become Army Vhief and we lost a brillinat General.
I remember we had discussed this point as well

Lieutenant General Bikram Singh, who will likely succeed as the army chief if General Singh retires according to the 1950 date, has many supporters within the government and amongst retired army chiefs, a couple of whom have formed a bloc against the present incumbent.

There is widespread support within the army for Lieutenant General K T Parnaik of the Northern Command who has a chance of becoming the army chief if the 1951 birth date is accepted by the government.


Sigh

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/does- ... 120125.htm


http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... -t-parnaik

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lalmohan » 15 Jan 2013 18:04

doesnt matter, in a time of adversity - we need to pull behind the leadership structure as it stands and push for the greater objective

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 15 Jan 2013 18:11

chaanakya wrote:
There is widespread support within the army for Lieutenant General K T Parnaik of the Northern Command who has a chance of becoming the army chief if the 1951 birth date is accepted by the government.



I personally think that the reason Gen Oarnaik had to come on air immediately post CoAS Singh's media event is that, CoAS's event was widely seen as being ineffectual, more of a politicians speech rather than what was expected from a Army man.

IA therefore had Gen Parnaik say things as it felt, may be Gen Singh himself shared the assessment.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 18:43

Sanku wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
There is widespread support within the army for Lieutenant General K T Parnaik of the Northern Command who has a chance of becoming the army chief if the 1951 birth date is accepted by the government.



I personally think that the reason Gen Oarnaik had to come on air immediately post CoAS Singh's media event is that, CoAS's event was widely seen as being ineffectual, more of a politicians speech rather than what was expected from a Army man.

IA therefore had Gen Parnaik say things as it felt, may be Gen Singh himself shared the assessment.


Could be. And it is good that Gen Parnaik came on Air.

Although there should be SOP for that and Major Gen in charge of Army PR should have made all statements. Army Chief with few lines would have been more potent. Afterall he is General of a Million Strong Army. His silence has more potency to make PA loose sleep for months than Political speech from him.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 18:44

Lalmohan wrote:doesnt matter, in a time of adversity - we need to pull behind the leadership structure as it stands and push for the greater objective

Country has always stood behind the Army. Even when Kaul was leading the campaign in NEFA.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 18:59

Lt gen Parnaik on TimesNow

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby A Sharma » 15 Jan 2013 19:01


Surya
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2013 19:09

Parnaik is also Rajputana rifles if I am not mistaken

that seals it more than anything

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby abhijitm » 15 Jan 2013 19:30

Aaryan wrote:@ Rohit saar and all the gurus, i have question Do u see any tactical mistake from our side?? The way that fateful patrol was conducted, scouts being too far from rest of the party??

PS: Am not a hidden abdul. Last time i asked uncomfortable questions i was accused oh being a abdul in hiding.

If they study and practice for a while and put best among them commandos for a task of killing patrolling scouts then nothing much you can do. As someone said here you cannot be tactically 100% correct 24/7 everywhere.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Vipul » 15 Jan 2013 19:52

Indian officer vehemently protested the beheading of an Indian soldier and also showed photographs of landmines placed by Pakistani troops on forward areas inside Indian territory.

So the Shitistani's were in Indian territory for so long as to enable them to plant mines!!!!! WTF was the Indian Army doing? Snoozing?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23455 » 15 Jan 2013 19:54

A Sharma wrote:BUTCHERS IN THE FOG


This is a great example of why almost everything out there in the media is untrustworthy - either inaccurate or motivated slants/information warfare based on how charitable one wants to be:

1. This article has Sudhakar Singh as the one who was beheaded, as did the very first reports. Common consensus is it was Hemraj.

2. If Sawan Patra on 6th Jan is "lies" as per Gen. Bikram Singh, then his own Col. Dahiya is contradicting him. Is only the crossing of the LOC "lies" - then that could have been made more explicit - no one did.

3. Someone, somewhere has decided to play up the beheadings this time around when a quick google reveals that the 20 Kumaon/19 Rajput was also reported but not hyped up. Most likely folks to do it Northern Command, followed by Army HQ.

4. The Army, despite being regularly outmaneuvred by netas and babus has made them backtrack on AFSPA and Siachen. Is this the Army now trying to do the same thing with our establishment wrt the LoC?

5. If so, if you were the Army, would you do a quick strike in the next 30 days so everyone can go back to business as usual, including the Pakistanis, or actually wait for a time and place of your choosing to not so much avenge the beheadings but to hold the Sword of Damocles over the deluded Aman ki Tamasha types when they next try and negotiate a "peace dividend"

...maybe I am being a conspiracy theorist attributing too much Chanakya-niti to our Fauj, but I will be very interested to see what happens in the next 60 days in terms of our army's actions.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rsingh » 15 Jan 2013 20:25

Aaryan wrote:My 2 paise on the pictures..
1) Pakistani sent a TFTA ( Tall Fair Thin Ass) commander with a jihadi beard. His shirt is out, and face is grim which gives an impression of a commander of an army which just lost a war. If u look the hands of our commander, he is holding it tight with a firm grip -all the fingers and thumb visible and holding tight- and with a composed aggression on his face ( message clear, we are here to dominate)
2) If u look closely the Indian personals who are siting, they are straight with broad shoulders and open hands they look composed and aggressive, while the pakis are virtually on edge of the seat with down shoulders leaned forward with cross hand. It can be interpreted as they are expecting to be accused, know that they are guilty and hence in defensive posture to with cross hands to dismiss everything and in mode of deniability.


Very accurate observation. What do you do for living ?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aaryan » 15 Jan 2013 21:22

rsingh wrote:
Aaryan wrote:My 2 paise on the pictures..
1) Pakistani sent a TFTA ( Tall Fair Thin Ass) commander with a jihadi beard. His shirt is out, and face is grim which gives an impression of a commander of an army which just lost a war. If u look the hands of our commander, he is holding it tight with a firm grip -all the fingers and thumb visible and holding tight- and with a composed aggression on his face ( message clear, we are here to dominate)
2) If u look closely the Indian personals who are siting, they are straight with broad shoulders and open hands they look composed and aggressive, while the pakis are virtually on edge of the seat with down shoulders leaned forward with cross hand. It can be interpreted as they are expecting to be accused, know that they are guilty and hence in defensive posture to with cross hands to dismiss everything and in mode of deniability.


Very accurate observation. What do you do for living ?


Sir Ex journalist and currentlya PR person. :)

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Pratyush » 15 Jan 2013 21:23

chaanakya wrote:
There is no assumption. Two soldiers are dead. Happens all the time. But I would like to be proven wrong on my hypothesis , because it was no ordinary ambush. It was in retaliation of our attack on their post.

Lt Parniak says we would have inflicted much more casualty and not just the one. And he confirms that it was Ghatak Platoon which had gone for raid. I get the impression that he means business and surely retaliation would be there.


When the COAS is on the record that nothing happened of the sort. Then why are you insisting on this particular point that it was a response to an IA action. Please understand that this is exactly the sort of thing that the DDM and the TSPA will use to perpetuate the myth that the TSPA acted in an act of self defense and the IA was the aggressor.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_22906 » 15 Jan 2013 21:27

Beheadings were pure psy ops by SSG. I anticipate the IA response will come a few months later once things cool down and PA gets complacent...

I would love to have our SF folks to go in and get a few porkis b@lls chopped off in retaliation.

One thing is sure, don't underestimate IA to give a befitting response at a time & place of its own convenience... In all probability it won't even come in news but the word will spread (of retaliation) among the troops. After all its "paltan ki izzat"... Remember, a soldier first fights for his paltan, then for the country...
Last edited by member_22906 on 15 Jan 2013 21:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Aaryan » 15 Jan 2013 21:27

Vipul wrote:
So the Shitistani's were in Indian territory for so long as to enable them to plant mines!!!!! WTF was the Indian Army doing? Snoozing?



Sir i had that info, that they were here for quite long, thats why i asked that question.. Did the Co or company comander of Raj Riff got lil bit linient??? Am not accusing or blaming them.. But still we have questions which Gurus can answer.

PS: I dont thing any one was snoozing, guess we should never use such words..

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 21:57

Pratyush wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
There is no assumption. Two soldiers are dead. Happens all the time. But I would like to be proven wrong on my hypothesis , because it was no ordinary ambush. It was in retaliation of our attack on their post.

Lt Parniak says we would have inflicted much more casualty and not just the one. And he confirms that it was Ghatak Platoon which had gone for raid. I get the impression that he means business and surely retaliation would be there.


When the COAS is on the record that nothing happened of the sort. Then why are you insisting on this particular point that it was a response to an IA action. Please understand that this is exactly the sort of thing that the DDM and the TSPA will use to perpetuate the myth that the TSPA acted in an act of self defense and the IA was the aggressor.

Listen to Gen Parnaik interview. He mentioned sequence of events. He also mentioned about Ghatak Platoon Raid etc And he also mentioned why it was carried out. That is not at all my addition. I dont give a damn to what Chief said. Northern Army Commander statement seems more credible. Afterall he is commanding his troupes directly

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby SBajwa » 15 Jan 2013 22:24

Aaryan wrote:
My 2 paise on the pictures..
1) Pakistani sent a TFTA ( Tall Fair Thin Ass) commander with a jihadi beard. His shirt is out, and face is grim which gives an impression of a commander of an army which just lost a war. If u look the hands of our commander, he is holding it tight with a firm grip -all the fingers and thumb visible and holding tight- and with a composed aggression on his face ( message clear, we are here to dominate)
2) If u look closely the Indian personals who are siting, they are straight with broad shoulders and open hands they look composed and aggressive, while the pakis are virtually on edge of the seat with down shoulders leaned forward with cross hand. It can be interpreted as they are expecting to be accused, know that they are guilty and hence in defensive posture to with cross hands to dismiss everything and in mode of deniability.


Good!! The naPaki gate on the left tells us that this meeting happened right at No Man's land (our door to the right). Even the chairs and tables are different so both sides brought their own (Indian chairs are padded while naPakis are steel)! I am wondering who supplied the carpet. Also the naPakis have two guys filming and so do we.

I think that total number of 6 soldiers attended from each side.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby SBajwa » 15 Jan 2013 22:31

Beheadings were pure psy ops by SSG.


The best psyops against naPakis is to slaughter couple of pigs and then smear the pig blood among the napaki dead bodies douse some petrol and burn them (forget about preserving the dead bodies). Paste these pictures online and on all media.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Surya » 15 Jan 2013 22:45

where is the Parnaik conf clip??

I see half of it at IBN?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 23:34

xposted



http://nishkamya.wordpress.com/2011/08/ ... apology-3/

Beheading incident in Aug 2011 which happened just after the visit of Khar Houri just like this time it happened immediately after visit of Rehman malik the interior minister who signed Visa agreement with India.

First the belated acknowledgement
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/behea ... h/1059111/
He revealed that Pakistani army had beheaded two Indian soldiers earlier also. "Yes, this has happened. We cannot conceal this fact," he said when asked whether two jawans of Kumaon regiment had been beheaded by Pakistani army over a year back.


On August 1st, four Indian soldiers from 20 Kumaon were beheaded by the Pakistan’s Border Area Team which stormed across the line of control (I refuse to say Indian territory because it is all Indian territory). We have heard varied claims from the Indian Government as to how many soldiers died but I prefer to believe people in the defense services and their relatives.


Such was the mutilation that the families of the soldiers were requested not to lift the shrouds covering their bodies. Quoting Army officials, the report identifies the two martyrs as Havildar Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Lance Naik Devender Singh. A third jawan, from 19 Rajput Regiment, was shot dead. His name has not been disclosed.


http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/jamm ... 47238.html

In a barbaric incident, which has shocked army officials, Pakistan-trained militants beheaded two soldiers and dumped their bodies during an encounter to check infiltration attempt near the Line of Control (LoC) in Kupwara district of Kashmir late last month.

It is suspected that the militants killed the jawans from the 20 Kumaon regiment, beheaded the duo and reportedly retained their heads as war trophies.

But, the army officials are not willing to accept the tragic story, as it might have an impact on the morale of the armed forces waging anti- terror operations in J& K. A jawan of 19 Rajput, who was part of the patrol party, also died in the cross- fire.

A senior Army official, requesting anonymity, disclosed that the two men of Kumaon regiment were killed and their heads were chopped off. Their bodies were also mutilated, he said.

The incident happened around Pak foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar's visit to the country, in the last week of July, disclosed the officer.



The martyred soldiers were identified as Havildar Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Lance Naik Devender Singh.

The details of the third jawan, from 19 Rajput, couldn't be ascertained.



A state police officer, who was present at the cremation of Devender Singh, confirmed that the bodies were badly mutilated and not shown to relatives. The Army authorities informed that the heads were blown away during the fierce encounter, he said.



http://dawn.com/2013/01/10/loc-incident ... opes-khar/
SLAMABAD: Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar on Thursday said she hoped that the incidents reported on the line of control (LoC) would not affect the dialogue that has been underway between India and Pakistan, DawnNews reported.

Khar claimed there were contradictions in the statements of Indian officials with regard to the incidents.

The foreign minister added that Pakistani media had played a positive role in the matter.

Earlier on Wednesday, Khar had appeared on India’s Times Now news channel and had issued a firm denial and criticised the statements by authorities in New Delhi about the alleged killing of two Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

India had accused Pakistan of sending troops across the heavily militarised LoC on Tuesday and had said two of its soldiers were killed and one was wounded in a half-hour gunfight.

The Pakistani army had later denied what it said were Indian allegations of “unprovoked firing” across the LoC.

The incident came two days after a clash along the LoC in which Pakistan said one of its soldiers had been killed after an Indian incursion. India had denied its troops crossed the line.


http://www.jagranjosh.com/current-affai ... 12373844-1

Hina Rabbani Khar, the first woman foreign minister of Pakistan, visited India from 26 to 28 July 2011. During her visit, India and Pakistan agreed to simplify travel procedures and increase the frequency of bus services for people of the divided Jammu and Kashmir. It was also agreed to convene separate meetings of the expert groups on nuclear and conventional confidence building measures in Islamabad in September 2011.


During the entire period of earlier incident UPA was engaged in duel with incumbent chief and feasting Khar Houri on her visit. Pakis played true to their script on that occasion as they are doing it now. It is curious why this incident was given so much media attention this time.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Jan 2013 23:36

Surya wrote:where is the Parnaik conf clip??

I see half of it at IBN?

He spoke after Army Day celebration and then his press conference and lastly in Times Now. Add together we get the picture. I think all videos would be available by tomorrow.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Mihaylo » 16 Jan 2013 00:11

Aaryan wrote:My 2 paise on the pictures..
1) Pakistani sent a TFTA ( Tall Fair Thin Ass) commander with a jihadi beard. His shirt is out, and face is grim which gives an impression of a commander of an army which just lost a war. If u look the hands of our commander, he is holding it tight with a firm grip -all the fingers and thumb visible and holding tight- and with a composed aggression on his face ( message clear, we are here to dominate)
2) If u look closely the Indian personals who are siting, they are straight with broad shoulders and open hands they look composed and aggressive, while the pakis are virtually on edge of the seat with down shoulders leaned forward with cross hand. It can be interpreted as they are expecting to be accused, know that they are guilty and hence in defensive posture to with cross hands to dismiss everything and in mode of deniability.


Good observation. Looks like each side bought their own coffe tables as well. And judging from the placement of our cofee table, looks like we bought the rug as well. Besides, a rug from Pakistan, I suspect would be green in color.

By the by, what is the sitting Indian soldier nearest to the camera trying to do with his left hand. Scratching an itch or itching a scratch :)

-M

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 16 Jan 2013 03:23

Apropos the Hindu ediotral Stop baying for blood:

X-Post...
About the Hindu Editorial and its four points on why India should keep taking the beheading from TSP.

Four propositions must be clearly understood.


OK bring it on.

First, ever since General Parvez Ashfaq Kayani took office as Pakistan’s army chief in November 2007, his covert services and armed forces have engaged in a carefully calibrated escalation of hostilities — hoping to roll back the détente initiated in 2003, but also seeking not to invite international condemnation.


Gen Do Nothing has been trying to escalate against India hoping to rally the many divisive forces inside TSP. It is not to roll back the so called "detente" which was established due to, the much reviled even by the Hindu, Operation Parakaram. TSP promised not to send terrorists and India promised not to invade them.

Second, India has few military options to address this situation. The potential costs of war, and the risk of nuclear confrontation, far outweigh those of the low-grade conflict India now faces. India has covert and conventional means at its disposal which have been exercised — and could be exercised to greater effect. However, precipitating a crisis serves the interests of Pakistan’s generals — not Indians.


Not true. India has a whole gamut of military options from local conflict, attrition war, to naval embargo among others, which do not cross the so called TSP nuke redlines. Its only shrill commentators working for US & TSP interests that raise the bogey of nuke crisis everytime in order to scare India into submission. The mentality is better to be alive as a slave and take the beatings than to fighting for what is right. Its contrary to the national motto of "Satyameva Jayate" :Truth is victorious.

Third, denying visas to elderly Pakistanis or stopping hockey players from participating in Indian tournaments will not make our borders or our civilians safer. This is the behaviour of a spoilt child, not a strategic actor.


The US boycotted the 1980 Moscow Olympics to show their anger at the FSU invasion of Afghanistan. The reason is it is duplitious to engage in sports and frivoulous activity while you are at state of undeclared war. More over it demoralises your fighting forces.


Fourth, real gains have been made since 2003, not the least a ceasefire and de-intensification of cross-border terrorism which has saved the lives of thousands of Indian soldiers. Nothing ought to be done to jeopardise this.




It is not the ceassefire that led to the de-intensification of cross-border terrorism but the very real threat of repeat of Operation Parakram that would finish TSP once and for all.

It was the constant disarming of the Indian armed forces by delayed procurements and constant cancellation of deals in pipeline which have reduced military readiness that have inspired TSP to break the ceasefire repeatedly as the statistics show over the last few years.

Further the promotion of fifth columnists in the media and civil society who peddle TSP propoganda like grandmother's tales gives aid and comfort to the TSP hardliners in and out of uniform.
Not every malaise has a cure; some can only be managed better or worse, and certainly not through indiscriminate blood-letting. India’s relationship with Pakistan is one of them.


India's relationship with TSP is not a malaise without a cure. The cure is to show and provide more than disproportionate retaliation like Operation Parakram to convince the TSP they cannot indulge in terrorism as a political tool.

And turn inwards. It was the massive mobilzation of Operation Parakram that turned the jihadi wave inwards into TSP and made them introspect and come to terms with the monster they have raised.

Prem Kumar
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Prem Kumar » 16 Jan 2013 04:03

X-posting from Strategic thread. Its very possible that Praveen Swami's grandmother article source came from TSP

ramana wrote:MediaCrooks points out that some Paki "journalist" Wahajat Khan, had tweeted before the Chindu article by Swami, implying that the latter got his info on the grandmother's tale from Paki sources. This is even worse than I thought.


Ramana: check out this Tweet that MediaCrooks is probably referring to

https://twitter.com/WajSKhan/status/289112264332693504

On Jan 9th, this is what Wajahat Khan says

Wajahat S. Khan: @SunjayJK You're very kind, mate. Watch out for a narrative changer tomorrow in an Indian newspaper @thenewshour @BDUTT @najamsethi


Next day, Praveen Swami's grandmother article in the Chindu!!

PrithviRajChauhan
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby PrithviRajChauhan » 16 Jan 2013 04:09

Explosive discussion on TimesNow b/w Indian and Pakis intellectuals n retired servicemen.


See from 34:00 to 36:00 in particular, replies from Arnav and Maroof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KO9YksjF7o

putnanja
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby putnanja » 16 Jan 2013 04:39


krishna_krishna
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby krishna_krishna » 16 Jan 2013 05:14

Intresting on P.S please read between 8:00 and 8:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFIk9iAl7Vc


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