Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Jan 2013 13:52

merlin wrote: They really want to hand over J&K to the Pakis on a platter. And to think we had such jokers in the IA and they actually made Col.

No he evolved over last 3-4 years, since he started working for BS. His evolution was clear. His growth can not be pinned on the IA thankfully.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jan 2013 13:56

We don't have them as of now,UG ammo dumps,Ye Gods!

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 18 Jan 2013 14:38

A Sharma wrote:India launches plan for underground ammunition dumps along borders with Pak, China

Me thinks we already have some such facilities.

K

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 18 Jan 2013 19:04

here we go again

nothing from Khalistanis and neo khalistanis is true

Flaming did not take you anywhere but here.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 18 Jan 2013 19:29

He was in the armored corp - too much head banging in Tin cans

there are some other interesting stories about his postings - suffice to say he was kept out of the loop by anyone who mattered

so probably carries a chip on his shoulder

Flaming did not take you anywhere but here.

well when neo khalistanis come here - and parrot their theme - expect to be pointed out

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 18 Jan 2013 19:46

Surya wrote:He was in the armored corp - too much head banging in Tin cans

there are some other interesting stories about his postings - suffice to say he was kept out of the loop by anyone who mattered

so probably carries a chip on his shoulder

Flaming did not take you anywhere but here.
well when neo khalistanis come here - and parrot their theme - expect to be pointed out

i already said lot about it .you got my reply here well. but .... you don't have any thing else to counter but keep repeating again again go on and on better yell from top of rooof

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 18 Jan 2013 20:17

yawnn

Hari Nair · Post by **Hari Nair** » 18 Jan 2013 21:52

SivaVijay wrote:^^^

Shows how pretentious patriots are more dangerous than DDMs. Never expected him to stoop so low.

I absolutely agree here. Col Shukla's article was quite a shocker.
I wonder if that blessed officer is reading all this.
He seems to have allowed his analytical senses to take leave when he wrote that bit.
And that is being quoted by the foreign media (and even some local ignoramuses) to establish this is the way-of-life at the LoC. Its okay if the enemy sneaks in and beheads a couple of soldiers... its not worth a response really...
I suppose he may be somewhat proud of his seminal work of "impartial journalistic research".
Its Aman-ki-Ashaa after all you see.. the honour and dignity of our soldiers notwithstanding.
Hard to believe that this is from an ex-Commanding Officer of an Armoured Corps regiment.
I have a couple of frank suggestions for Col Ajay Shukla -
-please remove that pic of yours in uniform from your blog. You definitely do not do the uniform of the Army proud.
-Rename your blog to something else more appropriate than "Broadsword".
BROADSWORD ????
That's definitely not you sir.
And I am ashamed to have known you or even spoken to you in a couple of interviews.
Shame & Disgrace!

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 18 Jan 2013 21:59

Surya wrote:He was in the armored corp - too much head banging in Tin cans

Man Surya, of all things to blame T series for.

Misraji · Post by **Misraji** » 18 Jan 2013 22:22

Surya wrote:He was in the armored corp - too much head banging in Tin cans

...
Most damning argument against the Tincans ... Ever ...

--Ashish

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 18 Jan 2013 22:37

Man Surya, of all things to blame T series for.

sorry man and my apologies to Col Anil Kaul and other fine men from the tin can ranks

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Jan 2013 23:51

Army claim of active LoC belied by J&K government figures

Look at how Shukla is blatantly trying to be manipulative by comparing the ceasefire violations at LoC to the actual terrorist attacks inside J&K?? Some people have already caught him out on that, but since the article appears in a major newspaper, he is just spreading canards about the army.

He goes as far as to say that the IA is lying about the number of ceasefire violations! thoo!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 00:03

now waiting for the usual suspect to come in to defend Shukla

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 19 Jan 2013 00:19

Has been an Yo-Yo. He started writing BS and advertised his availability to be an useful idiot. Found no takers and was sensible for a while.He is now taken and hence is back to writing outright lies and doing gandu-giri in Lawhore.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 19 Jan 2013 04:51

putnanja wrote:Army claim of active LoC belied by J&K government figures

Look at how Shukla is blatantly trying to be manipulative by comparing the ceasefire violations at LoC to the actual terrorist attacks inside J&K?? Some people have already caught him out on that, but since the article appears in a major newspaper, he is just spreading canards about the army.

He goes as far as to say that the IA is lying about the number of ceasefire violations! thoo!

He's wrong in his one statement correlating ceasefire violations and militant activity which are now mostly independent (though they've traditionally been employed to cover infiltration attempts) - 'The Army Liaison Cell (ALC), which handles media relations for the army, tells Business Standard that there were 57 ceasefire violations in 2010; 61 in 2011; and 117 in 2012. This year, there have already been 14 violations.'.

He's right on the money when he talks about falling infiltration and waning militancy. I happened to have a long interaction with some officers coming out of J&K recently. The overwhelming consensus was that the militancy for all practical purposes is over. Some live pockets are still exist in places like Sopore but everywhere else its practically dead and there has been no substantive reinforcement from across the LoC. Hostiles in Doda for example have been wiped out to a man.

Skirmishes on the LoC like the recent ones are a different matter.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 04:56

He's right on the money when he talks about falling infiltration and waning militancy. I happened to have a long interaction with some officers coming out of J&K recently. The overwhelming consensus was that the militancy for all practical purposes is over.

I will consider it over when kashmiri pandits can return and live in Kashmir.

right now even sarpanches are not safe - militants still can pick off people they want

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 19 Jan 2013 05:16

Surya wrote:I will consider it over when kashmiri pandits can return and live in Kashmir.

There other factors in play there including employment, residence and the absence of a familiar community. A small trickle back is bound to happen but there simply aren't enough job opportunities even though the tourism industry is booming.

right now even sarpanches are not safe - militants still can pick off people they want

I brought that up as well. While the individuals involved in criminal intimidation feature on militant watchlists, for all practical purposes they have devolved into simple gangsters (and in any other place would be classified as such). And the motive in the majority of cases is extortion rather than some ideological imperative.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 05:56

in most insurgent hit areas the line between militants and gangsters is pretty blurred

check NE for example

None of the Kashmiri pandits I have met are worried about going back because of jobs. they are being told there is no way to guarantee their safety (let alone get their property back)

I don't buy the sustained targetting of sarpanches is gangsterism - there is more to it

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 19 Jan 2013 06:02

Surya wrote:now waiting for the usual suspect to come in to defend Shukla

Now that wouldn't be a dig at moi, would it?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 06:08

no mihir - not you - you know that - there is another -

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 19 Jan 2013 06:11

Chalo good. No tinka in my daadi and all that

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 19 Jan 2013 06:13

oh btw you are not considered a staunch defender of shukla

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 19 Jan 2013 06:44

Bishwa wrote:FYI.

Lt. Gen Parnaik who is the Northern Command Chief is from the Rajputana Rifles. He commanded 2 Raj Rifles. He is also the Colonel of the Regiment.

The two soldiers who were mutilated were from the same Regiment. They were from 13 Raj Rifles.

would have been the COAS instead of Lt Gen Bikram Singh who was the eastern army commander if Former army chief VK Singh birth date issue was handled properly.

peter · Post by **peter** » 19 Jan 2013 20:31

Viv S wrote:
Surya wrote:I will consider it over when kashmiri pandits can return and live in Kashmir.
There other factors in play there including employment, residence and the absence of a familiar community. A small trickle back is bound to happen but there simply aren't enough job opportunities even though the tourism industry is booming.

Is'nt this misinformed? Kashmiri Pandits owned the biggest parcels of land which grew some of the best apples. What is the need to have job opportunities?

Viv S wrote:
right now even sarpanches are not safe - militants still can pick off people they want
I brought that up as well. While the individuals involved in criminal intimidation feature on militant watchlists, for all practical purposes they have devolved into simple gangsters (and in any other place would be classified as such). And the motive in the majority of cases is extortion rather than some ideological imperative.

What ? No ideological imperative? Which world are you living in?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 19 Jan 2013 23:41

Dear Ajai,

About a century ago in 1918, Spanish flu epidemic swept worldwide and killing 20-50 Million people.

Today, by the grace of God, human race suffers less from such epidemics, because of Improved Public Healthcare & Improved Civic Utilities like Water Works, Sanitation & other services.

Without Public Healthcare or Civic Utilities personnel on the job worldwide, we would be at the mercy of diseases.

Your article states that terrorism has declined in J&K. Your article gives the impression that because the number of reported incidents have fallen, the terrorism virus has become benign, the terrorism virus carriers/sponsors have become docile, and that the Security Forces are overreacting by raising public alarm on the terrorism virus.

That is drawing an incorrect conclusion.

The reason for the decline in terrorism incidents is because Security Forces on the job have become more efficient and not because the terrorism virus has become benign.

Just like the flu virus has mutated into more lethal strains like H1N1, terrorism has mutated into gruesome beheadings. Nor has the terrorism sponsors, like flu virus carriers, become any less active.

Your article is analogous to blaming Public Healthcare or Civic Utilities personnel for raising alarm on H1N1 virus by saying the casualties are not on the scale of the Spanish Flu of 1918, hence there is no cause for concern.

The beheadings are the gruesome reminder of the dangers of State Sponsored Terrorism virus & its carriers. It will be only to our peril if we underestimate the virus & do not take strong corrective measures to exterminate the virus. The peril will worsen if we discredit Security Forces for raising the alarm. They're our only line of defence.

Regards,

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 20 Jan 2013 02:03

Praveen Swami was denied a visa by Pakistan in Sept 2012 to visit that country. The Pakistan High Commission had apparently given no reasons for turning down his visa application. Swami says "I was asked no questions but instead handed out sermons .... on how Indian and Pakistani media could join hands to counter American conspiracies,” . The below two links point to the Hindu and TOI articles related to it.

One hopes after reading Praveens recent article , written subsequent to the denial of visa, that he has not taken the "join hands" part seriously

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 871317.ece
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... pplication

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 20 Jan 2013 02:29

Surya wrote: I will consider it over when kashmiri pandits can return and live in Kashmir.

The militants weren't the only ones who the Pandits were running from when they left. It was the common people, their own neighbours, who were baying for their blood. The Army can get rid of the militants. They can do nothing about the others.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 20 Jan 2013 04:17

all that happened because they militants\gangsters were dominant.

if law and order prevailed they can hate all they want but they know it will have consequences from the law

anyway this is OT

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 20 Jan 2013 13:40

Posted Shri Hari Nair ji's comment on shukla's blog, today he has published it. And shukla wrote probably the worst answer of his life, he is now saying that j&k police has taken more casualities and are working more efficiently then army.

I'm happy his mask is completely down , he is now openly showing his solidarity with those across the LoC.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2013/01/a ... -by-j.html

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 20 Jan 2013 21:52

Thu-Thu-la is a certified lifafa now, using full lahori logic to justify his BS. BRFites should now put him in the same category as chorgupta and stonewall any of his farticles from now on.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 20 Jan 2013 23:17

I don't think there is anything wrong in Shukla's article or his replies in the comments section. As a journalist, Armed forces are as fair a game for him, as anyone else. People seeing wrong in it is judging him with incorrect standards. He is not a army worshiping "bhaand" who is obliged to write only positive things about Armed forces to jingo satisfaction. Also questioning and calling armed forces on their facts, makes you as much a patriot as singing praise for them all day.

Much ado about nothing!

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 21 Jan 2013 04:42

Katare wrote:I don't think there is anything wrong in Shukla's article or his replies in the comments section. As a journalist, Armed forces are as fair a game for him, as anyone else. People seeing wrong in it is judging him with incorrect standards. He is not a army worshiping "bhaand" who is obliged to write only positive things about Armed forces to jingo satisfaction. Also questioning and calling armed forces on their facts, makes you as much a patriot as singing praise for them all day.

Much ado about nothing!

No one is asking him to write to jingo satisfaction but he is erring in drawing a wrongful conclusion from a true fact. If Army is saying that LoC is increasingly 'active', then Shukla's point of decreasing numbers of militants killed does not prove the Army wrong. This is undeniable and no amount of huffing and puffing from Shukla can change this fact.

srin · Post by **srin** » 21 Jan 2013 07:23

Katare wrote:I don't think there is anything wrong in Shukla's article or his replies in the comments section. As a journalist, Armed forces are as fair a game for him, as anyone else. People seeing wrong in it is judging him with incorrect standards. He is not a army worshiping "bhaand" who is obliged to write only positive things about Armed forces to jingo satisfaction. Also questioning and calling armed forces on their facts, makes you as much a patriot as singing praise for them all day.

Much ado about nothing!

At best, the article is insufficiently researched and AS has drawn conclusions that may vary based on perspectives.
At worst, AS is guilty of deliberately representing his bias as facts. Every article shed some insight into the mind of the author, and so does this - and it isn't pleasant.

Essentially, he is saying the following:
a) J&K police figures say that the number of fatalities of soldiers, civilians and militants have decreased sharply over the years.
b) Media reports on deaths collated by some SATP organization also concur with J&K police.
c) Army figures suggest that ceasefire violations have increased
d) Therefore, army is wrong and figures not "credible" and police is right.

Do you see the logic here ? 'coz I definitely don't.

What he hasn't said in his article ...
a) Does the police record deaths of paramilitary forces or the army too ? (In the table below, there is a "PMF/SF Killed" - I don't know if it includes regular army/RR)
b) Being ex-army, it is strange that he hasn't counted the "casualties" (injured and dead) instead of just deaths.
c) Why he believes that ceasefire violation is always corelated with militant deaths ?
d) Why he believes that J&K figures are credible ?
e) Why he believes that the army would inform J&K police of the security operations that it undertakes - including patrolling outside the security fence ?
f) Why he believes that the J&K police would know about the number of militants infiltrating across Loc ? Or the number of militants waiting to infiltrate ?
g) Given that there is an unified command, why he didn't ask the J&K government or the MoD for the reasons for the discrepancy ?

I could come with those questions in 5 mins - how come a journalist couldn't ask those ? Instead of investigating the reasons for the discrepancy, he has jumped to the conclusion that the army is wrong, implying that it is lying.

Is there a Track-II on J&K going on for which he has been invited ?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Jan 2013 07:44

India to ramp up surveillance along LoC Human intelligence to play a bigger role backed with top-line equipment

New Delhi, January 20
Almost two weeks after tensions escalated along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu and Kashmir, India will ramp up its surveillance network by adding more gadgetry and by having more robust human intelligence network that will provide timely information on any such development on the Pakistani side along the LoC.

At present, the Indian Army stationed along the LoC uses thermal imagers and long-range reconnaissance and observation system (LOROSS) to see movements across and also along the LoC. This is backed by other method of 'listening' radio waves of telephone networks and enemy radio systems. These equipments have terrain and weather related handicaps.

Having a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) that is capable of seeing through clouds, tree foliage and fog is an option but it would cost hundred of crores to have such radars all along the 724-km-long LoC that runs along some of the most inhospitable, dangerous, icy and rugged mountain terrain.

At present India has one satellite RISAT-I that has SAR capabilities but that cannot beam pictures 24x7 of the entire LoC. A new set of sensors that have night capabilities could be tried out. The other option is SAR-capable unmanned ariel vehicles (UAVs) but that would again mean constant ground monitoring and flying.

A final plan will be drawn up soon, immediately some steps have been taken to have aggressive patrolling.

The incident in January 8 in which two Indian Jawans - Hemraj and Sudhakar Singh - were killed and then their bodies mutilated was clearly a failure at tactical level. It was foggy hence the equipment like LOROSS would have been of lesser use. The LOROSS magnifies line of sight visibility with good sharpness.

That these two jawans meandered into a Pakistan Army ambush meant the patrol party and battalion has no information on any Pakistani Army's border action team having crossed the LoC and being present in Indian territory.

This shows lack of human intelligence to pick up the latest movements and be alerted on time. Lastly, the ambush took place between the barbed-wire fencing and the LoC, almost all equipment is located on Indian side of the fence.

Sources said apart from this, the equipping and movement pattern of Indian patrol parties is likely to change. They will be carrying more firepower and will have enough back up and a system of calling in fresh resources to take on enemy fire. Human intelligence has to play a big role and that has to be backed with top of the line surveillance equipment, sources added.

On January 14 the Army Chief had said "we are at looking at improving surveillance capability and ramping up human intelligence. We are revisiting doctrine and strategy and making it relevant and compatible".

Sources in the Military establishment said: "These are dynamic strategies and will be drawn up for the entire LoC". While one segment of the LoC might need conventional capability, other areas especially south of the Pir Panjal Range will need capability to fight asymmetric challenges like the one that reared its head on January 8.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 21 Jan 2013 20:50

well what a surprise!!! This is why we have to crackdown on neo khalistanis - you give an inch they take a few yards

Now a Gurdwara refuses prayers for Lt Gen Ranjit Singh Dayal

http://in.news.yahoo.com/video/gurdwara ... 02690.html

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 21 Jan 2013 23:37

Only reason Shukla ji is on that silly peace committee is because he will sign the damn paper when it is presented to him.

That peace committee would never hire anybody who has the nation in his heart.

But you got to cut him some slack. Unlike chor ji he does more then just stick posters on to his blog. At least takes the effort to type.

Also some of his comments did bear out with my own rishtedaari in the IA. Comments w.r.t. the distance between the rank and file starting somewhere around Col. level when some careerist people take on Staff responsibilites and some good people quit for private sector unsure of the way up.

member_23651 · Post by **member_23651** » 22 Jan 2013 00:29

Surya wrote:well what a surprise!!! This is why we have to crackdown on neo khalistanis - you give an inch they take a few yards

Now a Gurdwara refuses prayers for Lt Gen Ranjit Singh Dayal

http://in.news.yahoo.com/video/gurdwara ... 02690.html

OT
Surya, these imbeciles openly declare they are more closer to Pakis then us hindoos bahman, baniyas, what else can you expect out of them other than exhibiting a Paki behavior. For some not implementing DMIC in Punjab is cause for all their behavior!!! Recently again PM has raised issue with PM Harper of Canada about increasing activities of Khalis. Increased Khali activity in Canada/UK always had effect in Punjab(after all that's where most of their families and near dear ones live). But then I am going OT, and it should be confined to Burkha forum.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jan 2013 00:39

VinodTK wrote:India to ramp up surveillance along LoC Human intelligence to play a bigger role backed with top-line equipment
New Delhi, January 20

At present, the Indian Army stationed along the LoC uses thermal imagers and long-range reconnaissance and observation system (LOROSS) to see movements across and also along the LoC. This is backed by other method of 'listening' radio waves of telephone networks and enemy radio systems. These equipments have terrain and weather related handicaps.

Do not know the ops and range. Basically it did not help thwart the porki b@$turds.

We need more on personal soldier basis.. that is buddy system. range can be small, but always links to a buddy and all the way to CnC.

Having a synthetic aperture radar (SAR) that is capable of seeing through clouds, tree foliage and fog is an option but it would cost hundred of crores to have such radars all along the 724-km-long LoC that runs along some of the most inhospitable, dangerous, icy and rugged mountain terrain.

At present India has one satellite RISAT-I that has SAR capabilities but that cannot beam pictures 24x7 of the entire LoC. A new set of sensors that have night capabilities could be tried out. The other option is SAR-capable unmanned ariel vehicles (UAVs) but that would again mean constant ground monitoring and flying.

I am sure they are talking about this problem!

and quite rightly... the note:

A final plan will be drawn up soon, immediately some steps have been taken to have aggressive patrolling.

The incident in January 8 in which two Indian Jawans - Hemraj and Sudhakar Singh - were killed and then their bodies mutilated was clearly a failure at tactical level. It was foggy hence the equipment like LOROSS would have been of lesser use. The LOROSS magnifies line of sight visibility with good sharpness.
..............
Sources in the Military establishment said: "These are dynamic strategies and will be drawn up for the entire LoC". While one segment of the LoC might need conventional capability, other areas especially south of the Pir Panjal Range will need capability to fight asymmetric challenges like the one that reared its head on January 8.

wonder why DRDO can't put up a fast track unit for this buddy system soon.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 22 Jan 2013 03:35

Surya wrote:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/video/gurdwara ... 02690.html

Ironic that the Khali-stan movement has picked up when India has had its first Sikh PM.

I also find it hard to understand how these people can defend their anti-India position by using the Sikh ideology as validation. Reminds me of how some Jews collaborated with the Nazis despite being the victims of severe persecution in the hopes of "making the best of a bad situation".

member_23651 · Post by **member_23651** » 22 Jan 2013 04:03

Brando wrote:
Surya wrote:
http://in.news.yahoo.com/video/gurdwara ... 02690.html
Ironic that the Khali-stan movement has picked up when India has had its first Sikh PM.

I also find it hard to understand how these people can defend their anti-India position by using the Sikh ideology as validation. Reminds me of how some Jews collaborated with the Nazis despite being the victims of severe persecution in the hopes of "making the best of a bad situation".

I dunno about motivation factor of Jews, but what motivates them khalis can be found on their websites, which you will find here in br occasionally being spilled out by propaganda believers. In punjab and outside number of Sikhs have fallen for same propaganda