Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

schowdhuri · Post by **schowdhuri** » 21 Aug 2012 08:49

Jai & Nakul,
CDA is well known for 'blind' following of rule-books, and totally ignoring common sense - they are the ultimate 'babu's'. That said, the 'masala' seems to be from CNN-IBN rather than CDA as I mentioned in a previous post.

Food is mostly buffet, it is not practical to tailor food depending on what duties are being performed. Of course, there are special rations for sportsmen, high-altitude etc.

Fitness levels are required, documented & checked - so it's not that someone can overeat & just become like a pig. Many of the fat army people we see are typically those who have finished with active duties and are now mostly behind the desk. So you may see a Subedar-Major who is a bit fat, but he is not going to (typically) lead an assault. For his work he will be fit enough.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 21 Aug 2012 09:06

That study by CDA would be a very minor transgression. The babus are admittedly capable of much more, like threat perception and need for force accretion...

Govt tells Armed Forces to re-draw plan to raise strike corps for China border

The plan to raise a new mountain strike corps for the China border in the eastern sector is now back to the drawing board. The government is learnt to have sent back the proposal, asking the three service chiefs to jointly come up with a plan involving all three forces.

The rethink has come almost a year after the government gave its in-principle clearance to set up the strike corps, which eventually took the shape of a CCS note that was awaiting finance approval. It was estimated that the new corps would cost about Rs 65,000 crore with fresh accretion of 89,000 soldiers and 400 officers.

The plan was forcefully piloted by former Army Chief Gen V K Singh, who had projected it as critical to launch a counter-offensive into Tibet in case of a “Kargil-type adventure” by China.

Even then, questions were raised on whether this step would end up being more provocative than effective in the long run. But the Army had cited China’s overall aggressive military build-up and intelligence that Beijing was rehearsing plans for a local military offensive by way of specific exercises in and around the Tibet Autonomous Region.

The Finance Ministry had raised questions on the longevity of the China threat. While the expectation was that the government would push this into the new 2012-13 financial year, sources said, there has been a sudden rethink at the highest levels.

Insiders clarified that the government has not gone back on developing a credible preparedness level against China’s rapidly expanding military profile on the borders, but it does want a relook at the strategy from all possible sides. For this purpose, sources said, it was felt that the Chiefs of Staff Committee comprising the three service chiefs was the right forum to take a fresh look and suggest a comprehensive plan.

Another provocation for returning the proposal was that the government did not want the Army, Navy and Air Force to send separate proposals on countering China. It is learnt that the government felt there was a need for more coordination.

The new strike corps was to come up Panagarh, West Bengal, along with two more divisions. An independent armoured brigade along with an artillery division were to be part of the set-up. Already, two divisions are being raised in the eastern theatre along with the newly-created Arunachal Scouts battalions.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Aug 2012 09:59

Even after accounting for the Artillery Division and logistic chain, 89,000 soldiers is a very high number for a Strike Corps. That is more than 4 division worth of troops. Also, the cost of 65,000 crores makes me believe that we're looking at gold plated level of equipment - organic helicopter assets and other goodies.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 21 Aug 2012 11:22

^^ dont know what navy has to do in Himalayas ! Include all three forces !

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 21 Aug 2012 11:41

That is a part of cliche used by GoI/MoD to scuttle or delay proposals from a service HQ. They send it back to all three service HQs irrespective of the subject matter, being confident of the Jointmanship or lack of it at the highest levels.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Aug 2012 17:31

ashish raval wrote:^^ dont know what navy has to do in Himalayas ! Include all three forces !

Perhaps, they are looking at the option of striking at the coastal region of PRC using the IN. In case of any future conflict. But I am only dreaming.

sum · Post by **sum** » 21 Aug 2012 19:08

X-post:

sum wrote:Dances with dragons

On June 21 this year, during a meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations Rio+ 20 conference, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao met Bhutanese Prime Minister Jigmi Y. Thinley for the first time. The Hindu dated June 27, quoted Wen Jiabao as saying that China was “willing to complete border demarcation with Bhutan at an early date.”

The history of the Bhutan-China border dispute starts from 1950 when China published a map claiming areas in the west and north of Bhutan though bilateral talks started in 1984.

Twenty-eight years and 19 rounds of bilateral talks have resulted in a package deal offer from China (a) conceding claims of 900 sq.km in the north of Bhutan, (b) insisting on 400 sq.km of territory in the west, (c) offering to establish diplomatic relations, initiate trade and pilgrimage, (d) making it clear that any further negotiations would be on acceptance of package deal with “minor adjustments within it.”

It is noteworthy that over the years, the Bhutan government had been quite vocal in keeping its citizens and the National Assembly informed of the difficulties in negotiating with China. Regular deep intrusions by Chinese troops right up to Royal Bhutan Army border posts, road extension work in Zuri and the Phuteogang ridge that overlooks the disputed Charithang valley are in violation of the 1998 China-Bhutan agreement for maintenance of peace and tranquillity, for which protests have been made. Four areas in the western sector claimed by the Chinese are Doklam, Charithang, Sinchulimpa and Dramana pasture land. In the National Assembly, many chimis (district representatives) have claimed “that traditionally, the land always belonged to Bhutan and historically there has been no precedence of Bhutan paying taxes to the Tibetan Government for any of the disputed claims.” The rich pasture lands in the west are intricately linked to the livelihood of yak herders of the border regions.

From the foregoing, it is clear that the Chinese are unlikely to give up their position in the four areas of western Bhutan except for minor adjustments. It is confirmed by the pattern of intrusions sssssand road building activities by Chinese in areas overlooking this sector that Beijing wishes to gain strategic advantage in the Chumbi Valley and put pressure on India for settlement — having settled borders with Pakistan, Nepal and Myanmar.

Vital tri-junction
The narrow and vulnerable Chumbi valley between India (Sikkim) and Bhutan has a single artery from Shigaste, a major Tibetan city, to Yatung with plans to extend a railway line. The lack of space restricts the deployment of troops. The Chinese strategy of claiming areas in western Bhutan is to widen its shoulders to facilitate military manoeuvres in the Chumbi Valley.

The recent development in infrastructure in Tibet has made it possible to induct a sufficient number of troops with adequate logistic back-up at short notice. The limitation is in restricted deployment space; there is no other place on India’s northern borders which severely limits military manoeuvres as the Chumbi Valley does.

The Siliguri Corridor, a vital tri-junction between Bhutan, Bangladesh and Nepal, is a narrow hub of rail, road and air arteries known as the “Chicken neck,” the narrowest stretch of which is just about 30 km wide. India is vulnerable in this corridor as it is the only access point to the northeast. The Siliguri Corridor is about 500 km from the Chumbi Valley.

India-Bhutan relations
According to the media, Premier Wen Jiabao had met the Indian and Bhutanese Prime Ministers separately at Rio before making the announcement to the press. Some Chinese scholars have made this comment: “Without India’s permission Bhutan would not have thought about establishing diplomatic ties with China.”

India-Bhutan relations have been experiencing the winds of change. From 1949 onwards they were governed by a Treaty of Perpetual Peace and Friendship of 1949. Article 2 of the treaty was significant wherein “the Government of Bhutan agrees to be guided by the advice of the Government of India in regard to its external relations.”

However, much has changed. The isolation of Bhutan is a matter of the past. The nation has changed from monarchy to a democratic set-up. Article 2 had been a matter of concern for the Bhutanese so much so that some of them called themselves “half independent.” The 1949 Treaty was revised in 2007. Article 2 was replaced with: “In keeping with the abiding ties of close friendship between Bhutan and India, the Government of the Kingdom of Bhutan and the Government of Republic of India shall cooperate closely with each other on issues relating to their national interests. (emphasis added). Neither Government shall allow the use of its territory for activities harmful to the national security and interest of the other.” The 2007 Treaty has begun a new era in bilateral cooperation.

Despite the new Article 2, New Delhi will remain Thimpu’s most important friend and a partner. These figures speak for themselves. Bhutan is the largest recipient of Indian development aid and India accounts for a total of 79 per cent of Bhutanese imports and 95 per cent of its exports. India trains the Bhutanese army through the Indian Military Training Team (IMTRAT), in Bhutan. Simply put, Bhutan’s dependency on India will not match with any other country for many years.

Bhutan has every right as a sovereign country to establish diplomatic relations with any country including China. The opening of trade and tourism with China would usher in development and investments from there. However, a lack of discretion may also result in the dumping of goods, undermine a unique culture and affect the policy goal of “gross national happiness.”

Chinese claims do not seem to have historical evidence. The pasture lands would also deprive the livelihood source of their border people. Western Bhutan is not barren. It may be recalled that in 2006, China-India framed “Political Parameters and Guiding Principles” to resolve their long-standing border dispute. The important principles that need highlighting are that due interest of “settled populations in border areas” would be safeguarded and “historical evidence and sensibilities of border areas” taken into account. These guidelines are worth inculcating by China and Bhutan. The border settlement will require approval by 3/4th majority in the Bhutan National Assembly.

It is hoped that all aspects including India’s interests will be truly considered by Bhutan before accepting the border package. Bhutan should refrain from deepening ties with China beyond a self-imposed minimum limit in their own interest.

jai · Post by **jai** » 21 Aug 2012 19:20

It's the same mindset that prevailed in 62. Politicians making fancy statements but denying the forces required capability. In any case, IAF and IN are still getting modern equipment despite delays whereas its the IA that's lagging behind in almost everything - again for which it can only blame itself largely.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 21 Aug 2012 20:43

From the article posted above.

Vital tri-junction

The narrow and vulnerable Chumbi valley between India (Sikkim) and Bhutan has a single artery from Shigaste, a major Tibetan city, to Yatung with plans to extend a railway line. The lack of space restricts the deployment of troops. The Chinese strategy of claiming areas in western Bhutan is to widen its shoulders to facilitate military manoeuvres in the Chumbi Valley.

The recent development in infrastructure in Tibet has made it possible to induct a sufficient number of troops with adequate logistic back-up at short notice. The limitation is in restricted deployment space; there is no other place on India’s northern borders which severely limits military manoeuvres as the Chumbi Valley does.

The Siliguri Corridor, a vital tri-junction between Bhutan, Bangladesh and Nepal, is a narrow hub of rail, road and air arteries known as the “Chicken neck,” the narrowest stretch of which is just about 30 km wide. India is vulnerable in this corridor as it is the only access point to the northeast. The Siliguri Corridor is about 500 km from the Chumbi Valley

Now, read the above with maps given below:

The disputed area

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Aug 2012 01:02

Rohitvats, That 89k corps is more like an Army! Where is Panagarh in West Bengal where this corps is to be located?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Aug 2012 03:51

As if destruction of public property is not criminal enough (these fools pay no taxes and thus they have no value for anything that is in public domain), now people have resorted to desecrating military memorials;

http://livefist.blogspot.ca/2012/08/rew ... itary.html

But this above act, it just plain dastardly. Makes the blood boil seeing this picture;

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Aug 2012 19:18

ramana wrote:Rohitvats, That 89k corps is more like an Army! Where is Panagarh in West Bengal where this corps is to be located?

ramana, please see the link below for location of Panagarh -

http://maps.google.co.in/maps?hl=en&cp= ... a=N&tab=wl

Some thoughts on the location chosen:

- It sits astride NH-2 and a railway line and this gives its it good east-west connectivity. From what I've seen in the satellite images, the railway station seems fairly big enough to handle large volume of military traffic.

- Please see the map of Indian Railways in the link below and look for Asansol - Panagarh is ~60 kms east of Asansol: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ic_map.png

The Panagarh railway station sits on an electrified trunk route of IR which extends all the way to Amritsar.

- The location is connected to Siliguri via NH-34-->NH-31.....some 600 kms worth of distance by road.

- Panagarh also has an IAF airfield; from what I know, it is used as an emergency airfield to recover aircraft from Kalaikunda AFB. The runway length is about 2.5 kms. If the idea is to be able to airlift troops (we may well be thinking in terms of a Quick Reaction Force-QRF of our own here) in a double quick time to NE proper, then the presence of a IAF airfield nearby could have been a decision factor.

- The main thrust area for the Corps seems to be the Sikkim segment. However, to arrive at a correct picture, we will need to wait and see where the divisions of the Corps are located. Also, the QRF of the Corps may well be aimed at managing a contingency in Bangladesh as well.

- But what this location definitely does is allow movement of the Corps and its attendant troops towards west. From here to Pathankot rail head is ~1,800 odd kilometers. It will simply knock the pukes out cold if a Mountain Strike Corps was to appear in the Kashmir sector.

- It helps that Panagarh is home to one of the largest ammunition depots of Indian Army.

- 65K Crores @ INR 50/USD is $10Billion......

...we are looking at some real gold plated stuff here like organic helicopter assets. Last deal signed for 59 Mi-17V5 (latest version) in 2011 was for USD 1 billion.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 22 Aug 2012 20:09

^^ It could be something more than just air assets with other permanent capital infrastructure to be built along with the raising of new forces and their arms and logistics. Also the fact that - All three services have been asked to take a relook and come back may indicate some more integrated air assets into the mix, including CAS roles. The fact that these forces are to be stationed in WB, could also indicate an alternative amphibious role, since mountain troops will carry light arms and being mobile is key. Is this why the navy in the picture with some LPD type of investments attached to this corps to create this huge figure?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Aug 2012 22:23

So its really reserve mountain strike corps with flexibility to operate in either front.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Aug 2012 22:50

ramana wrote:So its really reserve mountain strike corps with flexibility to operate in either front.

In the near future, it is.

We need to remember that in 2002, 20 Mountain Division and 27 Mountain Divisions went west....20MD went to Rajasthan while 27 MD was under Northern Command. HQ 3 Corps shifted to Pathankot-Sambha Corridor. This allowed 1 Corps (along with 33 Armd Division and 23 Infantry Division) to shift to Rajasthan Sector between II Corps to north (south Punjab) and 21 Corps to South (Jaisalmer-Barmer). That is what caused the 'brown-salwar' moment for Musharraf. Of course, we now have 9 Corps in the Pathankot-Jammu Corridor.

Further, from what I understand, IA has asked for MSC for Northern Sectors as well. This is apart from forces requested for 16, 14 and 15 Corps to balance out the formations. The number of Mountain Divisions required/requisitioned is between 7 and 11.

mody · Post by **mody** » 23 Aug 2012 14:29

Panagarh airforce station is being expanded. There was a news report recently that the airforce plans to deploy Air-Air refueling aircrafts also at panagarh. If the Il-78 or its equivalents can operate from the base, it will be full air force base and not just an air strip.

mody · Post by **mody** » 23 Aug 2012 14:34

What exactly is this news item.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/army-disband-v ... 14828.html

What was technical support division? If Rs. 18 crore sanctioning was taken for its formation, just how can it be clandestine.

The report reads like it was written by the likes of Lt Gen Tejinder singh or his cohorts.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Aug 2012 03:33

For better understanding of the series that began on my blog about canal based defenses in Pakistan, I've written an article on the military balance and potential offensive scenario (for India) in South Punjab-Sindh region. I've used the Mid-2002 deployment of IA (during Parakram) in Rajasthan Sector as an indicator of potential strike options.

In context of Arjun deployment, we can see that there is a vast tract of area south of Sri Ganganagar which can accommodate Arjun tanks even if we take the 10M MLC-70 class bridge argument at face value.

Here is the link: http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2012/08/st ... b-and.html

Any and all criticisms and feedback are welcome.

kshatriya · Post by **kshatriya** » 25 Aug 2012 04:12

Gen Bikram Singh undoing decisions of his predecessor Gen VK Singh

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 648756.cms

NEW DELHI: The purge seems to have begun. Army chief General Bikram Singh is slowly but steadily overturning several key decisions taken by his predecessor, Gen VK Singh, which range from policy and procurement directives to postings of senior officers in key positions.

The defence ministry, left rattled by Gen VK Singh's propensity to "shake up the system" and indulge in brinkmanship, is exhibiting tacit support for Gen Bikram Singh's drive to "put the Army's house in order'' by not standing in the way, say sources.

Gen Bikram Singh's move to shut down the Technical Support Division (TSD), the clandestine military intelligence unit accused of illegally tapping telephones in New Delhi, and transfer the director-general of military operations (DGMO), Lt Gen AK Chaudhary, have stood out since both were closely associated with Gen VK Singh. While the TSD was directly reporting to Gen V K Singh, he had also pushed for Lt Gen Chaudhary's appointment as the director-general of Assam Rifles (AR). On Friday, the government announced Lt Gen Ranbir Singh will be the director-general of AR, a post which had been lying vacant for the last six months since the then DG, Lt Gen Rameshwar Roy, was moved out at Gen VK Singh's behest.

There is more to come. At least a couple of more Lt Generals are likely to be moved out from their posts as part of Gen Bikram Singh's endeavour to assemble his own team, say sources. The first to face the axe will probably be the director-general of military intelligence, Lt General BS Thakur, in the backdrop of the huge unexplained jump in the spending by military intelligence during Gen V K Singh's tenure. The general officer commanding Delhi Area, Lt Gen Vijay Kumar Pillai, could be the next to be shunted out.

Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia is tipped to be the next DGMO, while he will be replaced as the director-general of infantry by Lt Gen JS Bajwa. Interestingly, Let Gens Bhatia, Bajwa and Ranbir Singh have all worked closely with Gen Bikram Singh in his previous appointment as Eastern Army Command chief in Kolkata.

The change is evident on other fronts too. The Army withdrew its procurement case for 1,500 light bulletproof of vehicles at the last stage before approval from the defence minister AK Antony-led Defence Acquisitions Council soon after Gen Bikram Singh took over in June. "It was conveyed the new chief wanted the technical requirements for the vehicles to be modified. There have been other such policy changes," said a source.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Aug 2012 06:51

Once smitten twice shy. I think the black mark will get blacker only... We are not corruption free so, there exists every possibility once a whistle is blown, the bad mark always is hidden behind people's mind that can never be erased. It can be erased only by showing to the public, how clean operations, business and the whole system is.

narmad · Post by **narmad** » 25 Aug 2012 10:37

The defence ministry, left rattled by Gen VK Singh's propensity to "shake up the system" and indulge in brinkmanship, is exhibiting tacit support for Gen Bikram Singh's drive to "put the Army's house in order'' by not standing in the way, say sources.

See the play with words.
Why would it stand in the way of its own directions to the incumbent Chief ?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 25 Aug 2012 10:42

^^^Let me see if articles appear in the media about General Bikram Singh playing favorites with appointments - something that was targeted at General VKS when he appointed officers to the key posts in the AHQ. And where is the talk now of witch-hunt? And who gave information to media about the budget of MI? How many people would know about such an information? Basically, it seems that MOD now has their man in the hot-seat to ensure that status quo, as obtained earlier, is maintained. Every one is happy that ways...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 25 Aug 2012 23:12

<del>

comments like this are not acceptable on BR.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 25 Aug 2012 23:30

jamwal wrote:
Rakesh wrote:As if destruction of public property is not criminal enough (these fools pay no taxes and thus they have no value for anything that is in public domain), now people have resorted to desecrating military memorials;

http://livefist.blogspot.ca/2012/08/rew ... itary.html

But this above act, it just plain dastardly. Makes the blood boil seeing this picture;

........

There's a big irony here. The memorial they're desecrating is actually a tribute to two soldiers of the first war of independence of 1857 - one muslim and one hindu. That's why I believe that these vandals are nothing more than pin headed idiots being brainwashed by a few opportunists. We can undo these designs in two steps.
1) By not blaming the vast majority of their community who choose to live as Indians first and muslims second.
2) By ruthlessly hunting the brainwashers and their sponsors.

The memorial, which was unveiled in 2009, was erected in memory of two sepoys — Sayyed Hussein and Mangal Cadiya — who were martyred during the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 26 Aug 2012 09:13

NikhilT,

The majority who choose to live as Indian's first haven't uttered a word against these acts. If these same "progressive", "liberal", "open-minded", or w/e bs label we sometimes put on them became a majority in this country everyone knows what will happen. It's futile to go after their "sponsors" especially with growing internet penetration and their growing population. They ghettoize themselves and run their neighborhoods talibani ishtyle. Then they slowly start this whole "ooh everyone is against me" non-sense and slowly impose their medieval way of thinking on non muslims.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 26 Aug 2012 20:12

rohitvats wrote:
ramana wrote:Rohitvats, That 89k corps is more like an Army! Where is Panagarh in West Bengal where this corps is to be located? - It helps that Panagarh is home to one of the largest ammunition depots of Indian Army.

In addition to being one of the largest ammunition dumps of the Indian Army, Panagarh was also the place where the Americans left all their trucks, lorries, jeeps etc. when they left India after WW2.

These "scrapped" vehicles (actually in very good condition) were then sold to Indian buyers through the DGS&D (Directorate General of Supplies and Disposals). No doubt, many DGS&D babus would have made large fortunes in the late 1940s to the mid-1950s in this lucrative business.

When travelling as a child from Bombay to Calcutta on vacation, I could see the parked army vehicles in the Panagarh base. The rows of vehicles stretched for at least 2km. A mind-boggling site for a young kid.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 26 Aug 2012 20:17

rohitvats wrote:^^^Let me see if articles appear in the media about General Bikram Singh playing favorites with appointments - something that was targeted at General VKS when he appointed officers to the key posts in the AHQ. And where is the talk now of witch-hunt? And who gave information to media about the budget of MI? How many people would know about such an information? Basically, it seems that MOD now has their man in the hot-seat to ensure that status quo, as obtained earlier, is maintained. Every one is happy that ways...

Well put. Today's TOI carries a mealy-mouthed news item on Bikram Singh's decisions. I cannot find any other mainstream newspapers / journals commenting on this subject.

It seems that all the fears about BS that I had (along with many other colleagues in this Forum) are slowly being realised. This is a sad development for the Indian Army and our armed forces in general.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 26 Aug 2012 20:35

Jaybhatt wrote:<SNIP>When travelling as a child from Bombay to Calcutta on vacation, I could see the parked army vehicles in the Panagarh base. The rows of vehicles stretched for at least 2km. A mind-boggling site for a young kid.

Panagarh is home to the Army's Vehicle Depot...you would have seen the vehicles there. These are stored here before being dispatched to their respective units.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 26 Aug 2012 20:56

rohitvats wrote:
Jaybhatt wrote:<SNIP>When travelling as a child from Bombay to Calcutta on vacation, I could see the parked army vehicles in the Panagarh base. The rows of vehicles stretched for at least 2km. A mind-boggling site for a young kid.
Panagarh is home to the Army's Vehicle Depot...you would have seen the vehicles there. These are stored here before being dispatched to their respective units.

Haven't taken a train journey on that route for the last 47 odd years. Thanks for informing me. Brings back happy childhood memories.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 27 Aug 2012 06:40

India evaluating China’s military exercises in Tibet

Even as the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is seized of the Army’s plan to raise an exclusive strike corps for the China border in the eastern sector, the Army is evaluating the recent ground-air combat military drill by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) on the Tibetan plateau.

The PLA has carried out four exercises in Tibet since March.

“We constantly monitor and analyse such exercises; there is no change in the pattern and no new areas are being opened by the Chinese military,’’ sources in the Army said.

On infrastructure-building by China along the border, Defence Minister A.K. Antony told Parliament last week that the government was regularly monitoring all developments in “our neighbourhood,’’ which have a bearing on national security. “Required measures have been initiated through development of infrastructure and operational capabilities to achieve desired levels of defence preparedness to safeguard the sovereignty, territorial integrity and security of India,’’ he said in written reply.

Keen to get at least the Air Force also on board, the CCS is learnt to have asked the armed forces to further work out finer details and come up with a compact proposal for raising a strike corps. Discussions on planning a strike corps as well as two additional divisions for defence of Arunachal Pradesh began about six years ago and continued at various levels before the proposal was sent to the CCS in the form of a note a year ago, government sources familiar with the development on this front said.

Initially, the Army proposed raising three divisions — comprising nearly 45,000 troops — at an estimated cost of about Rs. 7,000 crore. It was proposed to have the corps headquarters at Panagarh in West Bengal.

The proposed strike corps will draw support from IAF fighters operating from renovated bases in the northeast. Sukhoi-30s have been posted at bases in Tezpur and Chhabua. In addition, Jorhat, Bagdogra, Hashimara and Mohanbari bases are also being upgraded.

“The PLA has held at least 21 exercises in the Tibet region over the past one-and-half years. These have been designed for specific scenarios. These exercises also convey to India that they are gearing preparations in high altitude conditions. China wants to convey that it is testing and strengthening its conventional deterrents and enhancing military capability in hostile territory,’’ said Srikanth Kondapalli, Chairman of the Centre for East Asian Studies in Jawaharlal Nehru University.

“India is also conveying a message about its capabilities through Agni V test or deployment of SU-30s,’’ he said.

As perceptions of the Line of Actual Control differed on both sides, transgressions often took place, he noted.

Keywords: Cabinet Committee on Security, Indo-China ties, bilateral relations, Tibet, military exercises, People’s Liberation Army, Line of Actual Control

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Aug 2012 09:39

Jaybhatt wrote:
rohitvats wrote:Jayabhatt said: When travelling as a child from Bombay to Calcutta on vacation, I could see the parked army vehicles in the Panagarh base. The rows of vehicles stretched for at least 2km. A mind-boggling site for a young kid.

Panagarh is home to the Army's Vehicle Depot...you would have seen the vehicles there. These are stored here before being dispatched to their respective units.
Haven't taken a train journey on that route for the last 47 odd years. Thanks for informing me. Brings back happy childhood memories.

There was a place in Poona, dating from my own childhood around 1965 to 68 which had rows upon rows of old tanks inside a fence. I had read enough WW2 comics by then to know that at least some were Shermans. Used to excite me no end and helped form the mental connections that led me to BRF.

I revisited that place a couple of months ago and saw that Army residences have come up in the area. Which is just as well, some of the old original houses (rightly marked for demolition) are really run down. Maybe I'll post a pic. But that also gives me an idea - maybe we could have a "dwon memory lane therad where people could post recollections and photo of old miliotary related stuff.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 27 Aug 2012 10:45

shiv wrote:
Jayabhatt said: When travelling as a child from Bombay to Calcutta on vacation, I could see the parked army vehicles in the Panagarh base. The rows of vehicles stretched for at least 2km. A mind-boggling site for a young kid.

Haven't taken a train journey on that route for the last 47 odd years. Thanks for informing me. Brings back happy childhood memories.

Shiv :

There was a place in Poona, dating from my own childhood around 1965 to 68 which had rows upon rows of old tanks inside a fence. I had read enough WW2 comics by then to know that at least some were Shermans. Used to excite me no end and helped form the mental connections that led me to BRF.

I revisited that place a couple of months ago and saw that Army residences have come up in the area. Which is just as well, some of the old original houses (rightly marked for demolition) are really run down. Maybe I'll post a pic. But that also gives me an idea - maybe we could have a "dwon memory lane therad where people could post recollections and photo of old miliotary related stuff.

Hear hear. All for it. Why doesn't Shiv initiate a new thread ?

jai · Post by **jai** » 27 Aug 2012 11:28

VinodTK wrote:India evaluating China’s military exercises in Tibet

Keen to get at least the Air Force also on board, the CCS is learnt to have asked the armed forces to further work out finer details and come up with a compact proposal for raising a strike corps.

Keywords: Cabinet Committee on Security, Indo-China ties, bilateral relations, Tibet, military exercises, People’s Liberation Army, Line of Actual Control

From the above; the debate on air assets continues- looks like Army wanted the air assets under it's own control - attack/other choppers, while the govt wants airforce to agree or have a say, explains the high costs as well....choppers.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Aug 2012 01:29

Here is second round of analysis about Defense Canals in South Punjab and Sindh covering the RYK Area.

http://vatsrohit.blogspot.in/2012/08/ca ... ab-ii.html

Ramesh · Post by **Ramesh** » 28 Aug 2012 11:21

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 120828.htm

Defence Minister A K Antony, in a written reply to a question in the Lok Sabha, on Monday stated, "A total of 846 armed forces personnel have made supreme sacrifices on the Siachen glaciers since 1984."

This includes deaths due to the extreme climate and terrain conditions, which causes more casualties in that sector than battle. Hypoxia, high altitude pulmonary edema (or "altitude sickness" in mountaineering lexicon), avalanches and crevasses have taken a heavy toll on Indian lives.

The casualty rates due to weather have come down drastically due to improved equipment, procedures and resources.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Aug 2012 11:26

Ramesh wrote:http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 120828.htm

Defence Minister A K Antony, in a written reply to a question in the Lok Sabha, on Monday stated, "A total of 846 armed forces personnel have made supreme sacrifices on the Siachen glaciers since 1984."

This includes deaths due to the extreme climate and terrain conditions, which causes more casualties in that sector than battle. Hypoxia, high altitude pulmonary edema (or "altitude sickness" in mountaineering lexicon), avalanches and crevasses have taken a heavy toll on Indian lives.
The casualty rates due to weather have come down drastically due to improved equipment, procedures and resources.

As mentioned in Siachen thread, Media channels showing 4000 death toll and taking Pakistani Army position a few months ago was a deliberate lie to help the enemy position in talks.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 28 Aug 2012 12:26

Aditya_V wrote:As mentioned in Siachen thread, Media channels showing 4000 death toll and taking Pakistani Army position a few months ago was a deliberate lie to help the enemy position in talks.

Reminds me of a scene in the movie A Bridge Too Far when the Polish Army officer actually walks to an RAF officer and says he is reconfirming the chap's rank insignia to see it is British. Because he feels the RAF officer's plan was more favouring the Germans

. Guess our media needs to be physically checked like this to see who they actually favour

.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 28 Aug 2012 12:30

Man who desecrated Amar Jawan memorial arrested

Mumbai: More than 15 days after a man was photographed desecrating the Amar Jawan Smarak at Mumbai's CST station, he has finally been identified and arrested.

Hope they teach him a good lesson in custody.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 28 Aug 2012 12:44

Nikhil T wrote:Man who desecrated Amar Jawan memorial arrested

Mumbai: More than 15 days after a man was photographed desecrating the Amar Jawan Smarak at Mumbai's CST station, he has finally been identified and arrested.
Hope they teach him a good lesson in custody.

Wait for some time and you can see him being made a hero as he done something what an outsider could'nt do.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 28 Aug 2012 20:16

Thought that this would be a good read...

'Wanted! Service Chiefs with Balls'

BY SHAILESH RANADE

What do you say about an Army Chief who calls a recent suicide of a jawan as a “minor incident”? What do you say about a Navy chief who drags the other two Chiefs to a Committee of Secretaries to discuss pay and pension anomalies? What do you say about an Air Force Chief who consistently has no opinion on any pressing issue and is more fit for Madame Tussauds Wax Museum?

The Service Chiefs simply lack courage. Many veterans who have spent their best years in the Armed Forces are astonished at their pusillanimity. Not many hours ago, a jawan was perched atop a 200 foot mobile tower and wanted an audience with the country’s Defence Minister. This “isolated incident” is not a failure of middle level officers. It is a failure of leadership at the very top of the Army chain. These are not solitary or minor incidents any more. At least, not in our society where the jawan is a part of the family. If things continue to slide, the outlook is pretty grim for the Services in general and the Army in particular.

Many feel that the current Chiefs simply do not inspire the kind of confidence expected of leaders who can lead men into battle. Does anyone in the higher echelons even pay attention to what they are saying? Do their opinions even matter in the greater scheme of things?

So what’s the time, one may well ask? It’s time, the soldier, seaman and the airman got a new set of Chiefs for their respective forces.

A hypothetical advert for a Service Chief would be something like the one listed below. How we wish it were true!

Wanted! Service Chiefs with Balls

Key Duties/Responsibilities:

-Lead by personal example.
-The immediate need is to restore the credibility at Senior Levels.
-Prepare the Forces under your Command for war at all times. Statements like “we will fight with whatever we have” will be frowned upon.
-Create an Organization that will conduct an honest appraisal of Officers / PBORs for promotion.
-You are to assist civilian authority only after due diligence. Outsourcing jobs to the Services is to be treated as overtime.
-You have to earn the respect and trust of your troops. Suicides will not be treated as “minor incidents”. Neither will jawans climbing mobile towers in desperation be tolerated.
-You are to ensure that officers and jawans are satisfied with their pay and allowances. You will be required to move heaven and earth if needed. As a last resort, thumping the table of the RM or PM would be acceptable.
-Well versed in troop management.
-Improve the promotion prospects and social status of the jawans.
-You and your senior officers are required to play troop games and shun individual sports like golf, tennis etc.
-You also need to care for the welfare of the Veteran Community and conduct a “durbar” at least once in 6 months in every Command by rotation.
-Appoint a Scam Investigator in every Command and take quick action to weed out undesirable elements.
-Occasionally advise your superiors on good governance, if things start to go awry. Remember, National Defence is all encompassing.
-Honestly evaluate all arms deals/transactions without any hint of post retirement benefit.
-Any other duty bestowed upon you by the citizens of India.

You are to avoid:

-The company of scam tainted ministers, politicians and bureaucrats.
-Wasteful expenditure like Presidential Fleet Reviews or going one up on your predecessor by flying a President on a Sukhoi-30.
-Cheap publicity like granting honorary ranks to sports personalities or giving them rides on tanks/ships and fighter aircraft.
-Repetition of: Bofors Scam, Atta Scam, Rum Scam, Sex Scandal, Adarsh Scam, Sukhna Scam, Tatra Scam, Tehelka Scam, Barak Scam, Scorpene Scam, Gorshkov Scam, NDA Scam, Denel Scam, Coffin Scam, Awantipura Scam, Diesel Scam, ACR Scam, Tilpat Range Scam, Kalpatru Builders Scam, Mutton Scam, Scrap Scam, ECHS Scam, CSD Scam etc. In fact any Scam in any form is anathema.
-Taking, pilfering, misusing items bought from Service Funds such as stationery, fuel, furnishings, Liquor, transport, etc.
-Misuse of official machinery and manpower for the benefit of your dependents. You will be required to keep complete control over your spouse, children and other dependents. They are expected to use your personal or public transport. Their expenses are to be debited to your personal account.
-Illegal acts in the fiscal sphere such as fake billing, selling of NSP arms etc.
-Attending lavish parties that give the impression that your juniors are “sucking up” to you.
-Denigrating the office of the Chief by getting appointed as Ambassador or Governor of an inconsequential country/state. You are also to advise retiring senior officers against becoming dalals for arms lobbies, construction houses, shipyards, aircraft industries etc.

Qualifications for the Potential Candidate:

-You are expected to be a three star officer viz: Lt Gen/Vice Adm/Air Marshal.
-You should be free from scam taint.
-You should not be a backdoor entry into Flag Rank.
-You should not have approached a politician or a bureaucrat for a promotion or a favorable posting.
-You should not have gone to court or filed a statutory complaint during your career.
-You should have a soldiers bearing. Officers with reverse chest to waist ratio will not be entertained.
-War fighting skills may be an advantage though NOT an essential requirement.
-Irreproachable conduct, restrained attitude, understanding of responsibility and adherence to discipline should come naturally.
-Two star officers in zone of promotion are encouraged to apply. In the event that no suitable three star officers meet the requirement, the selection would be conducted from the more suitable two star officers.

Remuneration and Perks:

-Rs 90,000 per month + DA
-Fully furnished house in Lutyens Zone
-Security as deemed
-Free transportation (only for self)
-Embraer aircraft for inter city travel (only for self). Wives who nominate themselves as ‘President’ AWWA/NWW/AFWWA are entitled to 2 AC train fare
-Free Medical for life for self and dependents (conditions apply)
-Security cleared servants at home. No Batmen or Stewards are to be misused
-Silly things like Rations / CSD subscription / Liquor quota are included

Time to Join
ASAP. You will be required to hit the ground running.

Candidates meeting the above requirement are assured of a rewarding career and the nations’ gratitude. Please look below at the photos of some of the distinguished Service Chiefs we have had in the past. Only apply if you think you can match their performance or do better than them. You decide.

Don't miss the comments.

http://canarytrap.in/2012/08/23/wanted- ... ith-balls/