Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4066
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby kit » 12 Sep 2013 12:23

VinodTK wrote:Preparing for a two-front war
By: Ajai Shukla

Shifting gears, the Indian military is transforming an exclusively defensive strategy into one with a significant offensive element

For decades, the Indian military and its defence posture were structured to ensure "deterrence" against Pakistani adventurism on the western border, and "dissuasion" against China in the north and east. Put simply, that meant being able to wage, and quickly win, a punitive war against Pakistan; while also being able to hold off a Chinese attack for a short time. With China having rattled sabres on the Sino-Indian border (the Line of Actual Control, or LAC) to distract India during the Indo-Pakistan wars of 1965 and 1971, New Delhi is clear that it must continue to defend the LAC, even through a war with Pakistan.

But what has been a relatively light presence on the China border is now being strengthened dramatically, as India's military prepares itself for what the Indian Army chief in 2009, General Deepak Kapoor, termed a two-front war. This apprehension was also voiced by his successor, General V K Singh. China's emergence as a global powerhouse that pursues its national interests and territorial claims unapologetically has forced New Delhi to rethink its basic security calculus. This could have enormous implications on Indian defence spending, procurement and the emerging defence industry in the country.
:
:
:
:


Headline could also read " Increasing the Profitability of US Military Industrial Complex " .

I can bet that China will not be defeated on the strength of imported arms i.e if they decide to prolong the conflict.[/quote]


Seriously doubt any country won a war against a more capable one on the strength of imported arms ! Never happened

If India has to hold its own better build up indigenous capabilities and adequate industrial capacity.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby harbans » 12 Sep 2013 19:26

Gen Thimayya belonged to this Div.

According to Fd Marshall Lord Wavell “Those who fought under the sign of the ‘Red Eagle’ will always be justly proud of it; and those commanders who, like myself, have known the worth in the field of that magnificent Division, will be the first to acknowledge their debt of gratitude, and to salute one of the greatest bands of fighting men who have ever served together in this troubled world of wars and warriors.”

Its saga of valour and dedication has been aptly recognized by more than 800 gallantry awards which include 04 Victoria Crosses, 02 Param Vir Chakras, 21 Maha Vir Chakras, 03 George Crosses and 56 Vir Chakras.



Platinum Jubilee celebrations of the Red Eagle Div 4th Infantry

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 12 Sep 2013 20:17

harbans wrote:Gen Thimayya belonged to this Div.

According to Fd Marshall Lord Wavell “Those who fought under the sign of the ‘Red Eagle’ will always be justly proud of it; and those commanders who, like myself, have known the worth in the field of that magnificent Division, will be the first to acknowledge their debt of gratitude, and to salute one of the greatest bands of fighting men who have ever served together in this troubled world of wars and warriors.”

Its saga of valour and dedication has been aptly recognized by more than 800 gallantry awards which include 04 Victoria Crosses, 02 Param Vir Chakras, 21 Maha Vir Chakras, 03 George Crosses and 56 Vir Chakras.



Platinum Jubilee celebrations of the Red Eagle Div 4th Infantry



Thanks to Lt Gen Kaul's nakre in 1962 and Maj gen Niranjan Prasad's pusilimanity this div suffered a loss of reputation in both 1962 and 1965.


I used to have the HMO publication on the Red Eagle division which I lost after I moved from desh.

Desmond Young in his biography of Rommel(Afrika Korps) writes about the latter's praise for the Red Eagle division for its bravery and resoluteness.

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 12 Sep 2013 20:45

ramana wrote:
Thanks to Lt Gen Kaul's nakre in 1962.


The same Kaul who was a disaster in 65?

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby harbans » 12 Sep 2013 20:55

Gen BM Kaul, Nehru's point man 62..we lost Sela thanks to him..and PVC Brig Hoshiar Singh
Last edited by harbans on 12 Sep 2013 20:56, edited 1 time in total.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 12 Sep 2013 20:56

No he was out of the Army by then. He was in 1962 debacle.

If you note the individual soldiers of that Division got the PVC in both 1962 and 1965.

Ankit Desai
BRFite
Posts: 542
Joined: 05 May 2006 21:28
Location: Gujarat

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Ankit Desai » 14 Sep 2013 10:20

Arms deals worth Rs 15,000 crore cleared

Panagarh will be the headquarters for the new mountain strike corps, along with two "independent" infantry brigades and two "independent" armoured brigades (totalling over 80,000 soldiers), which will be raised over the next seven years to plug operational gaps against China.


While the first six C-130J aircraft already acquired by IAF are based at Hindon airbase, the six new "Super Hercules" will be housed at Panagarh in West Bengal.


-Ankit

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4071
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Lilo » 14 Sep 2013 10:42

harbans wrote:Gen BM Kaul, Nehru's point man 62..we lost Sela thanks to him..and PVC Brig Hoshiar Singh


Harbans ji,
Brig Hoshiar Singh Rathee of Sela '62 is different to PVC Colonel Hoshiar Singh Dahiya (then Major) of Shakargarh bridgehead battle '71.

ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1390
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ashish raval » 14 Sep 2013 12:44

If India needs to get rid of corruption in defence procurement, it has to disband entire procurement machinery and give contracts to companies who specialises in evaluation and work on their report.

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby harbans » 14 Sep 2013 15:30

Lilo Ji, you are right.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 15 Sep 2013 19:56

x-posted

RSN Singh made a point which is very pertinent.

That (bloody) Juvenile is enjoying all perks and privileges of Laws based on a ( dubious) Primary School certificate and Court is sticking to that. While the Highest Court and Govt could not trust the Good old General Singh on his Matriculation certificate and denied him the due that was his.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2013 06:24

Channakya chodo us bhaat ko. VKS has a different role of NSA in a NaMo admin.

member_27444
BRFite
Posts: 488
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_27444 » 16 Sep 2013 06:32

VKS MOD would be apt and take salute from...

rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7734
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 16 Sep 2013 15:54

A very interesting report:

http://sainiksamachar.nic.in/englisharchives/2012/jul01-12/h15.htm

The rugged mountainous terrain with steep snow-clad peak makes the Himalayan region a formidable challenge for military operations. The strategic importance of guarding these regions to prevent hostile infiltration requires huge deployment of troops along with logistic supply chain. Army has been using the GS & MA mules for AT Bn in the mountain region for logistic supplies as most of this terrain is not accessible by MT vehicle. Mules have been the main pack animals to maintain the logistic supply to the troops in this region. GS mules have been used to maintain the winter stocking items like ration, water, FOL etc since long whereas the MA mules are being used to carry the heavy artillery guns in mountain warfare. So far these mules were being bred and trained at sea levels and subsequently deployed in High Altitude (HA) areas at various AT Bns. But most of these mules have suffered from lack of HA adaptability and succumbed to various HA related maladies thus, affecting the operational efficiency of AT Bns and preparedness of units.

Thus, a challenge was thrown to Defence Institute of High Altitude Research (DIHAR), DRDO, to identify and propagate pack-animal for army transport which will successfully take on the challenges of HA adaptability and be more resistant to high altitude related maladies like pulmonary oedema, mountain sickness, etc, with equal thrust on the load carrying capacity as carried by the mules in mountain areas.

DIHAR identified the local Zanskar ponies which are native to the Zanskar valley in Ladakh region as packer for the high altitude region. Equines have been playing significant role in defence forces since time immemorial. Even in today's era of modernisation, the equine draught power cannot be done away with in many strategic areas. Their importance has been amply demonstrated during Kargil operations.

Zanskar ponies were selected because they are local to the region and well-adapted to high altitude. These ponies are generally docile and easy to handle. These ponies are sure footed to negotiate narrow tracks and their weight carrying capacity is same as that of GS mules. They are more resistant to diseases and less prone to HA maladies. They can survive on local feed and fodder and, in case of emergencies, can be deployed without any acclimatisation. The Zanskar ponies require least manage practices and less feed consumption.

The Zanskar Pony Research Station under Animal Science Division, DIHAR, Leh has successfully carried out selective line breeding and, subsequently, the progeny was put to field trials with Ladakh Scouts. These fields trials have established that Zanskar ponies are the best transport animals for military transport in this region. Subsequently, the entire breeding operation of Zanskar ponies was transferred to Remount and Veterinary Corps which has established a Zanskar breeding station at Partapur.

After as successful induction of pure-bred Zanskar ponies, further crossbreeding was done with 'Halflinger' male (Austrian draught purpose breed). The aim was to increase the load carrying capacity of pure-bred ponies. These cross-bred ponies have undergone trials at Zanskar pony training track at DIHAR and at 8 Mountain Division Sector. It has been found that these ponies are equivalent to MA mules in their weight-carrying capacity. These crossbred ponies are well-adapted and less prone to HA maladies with enhanced weight-carrying capacity. Trials have found that these cross-bred ponies are a valuable asset to Army in this region and their further propagation is suggested. This has proved to be yet another feather in the cap of DIHAR (DRDO)

Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sanku » 16 Sep 2013 21:03

Aligarh DM mocks the sacrifice of our soldiers

Aligarh DM Rajiv Rautela mocked the sacrifice of our martyrs and called the country a nation of mourners. He also humiliated their families and implyed that they are greedy and they only look for compesation after the death of a soldier.


Hear the clip, it is far more offensive compared to what the blurb says,

With filth such as this in amongst Indians, no wonder the country is in such a state.

raj-ji
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 67
Joined: 25 Oct 2010 19:31

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby raj-ji » 16 Sep 2013 22:22

kit wrote:
VinodTK wrote:Preparing for a two-front war
By: Ajai Shukla




Headline could also read " Increasing the Profitability of US Military Industrial Complex " .

I can bet that China will not be defeated on the strength of imported arms i.e if they decide to prolong the conflict.[/quote]


Seriously doubt any country won a war against a more capable one on the strength of imported arms ! Never happened

If India has to hold its own better build up indigenous capabilities and adequate industrial capacity.[/quote]

I agree that India should build up its indigenous defence capability. But that is only a small part of preparedness.

As for the comment about wars being won against more capable foes, there are some rather big examples from history.

Most notably the US war in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan. These wars show how well armed guerrilla fighters can bring down formidable foes with tremendous indigenous defence capability.

India is used to fighting the Pukis, they are smaller than us, so once the Indian war machine gets going, the sheer size puts the Pukis at a huge disadvantage. And the results of the wars with the Pukis speak to this.

India can't fight this way in the event of a conflict with the Pandas. The new forces being assembled on the eastern front have to think and fight differently. The guerrilla tactics, dissimilar warfare tactics that were proven so effective during the Vietnam war with the US and Afghan war with the Soviets needs to be studied closely for lessons.

Great benefit if these tactics are encorporated, in IA war games the offensive Eastern front can be put against the more defensive Western front forces. This will fine tune the tactics and effectiveness of both fronts.

member_27444
BRFite
Posts: 488
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_27444 » 16 Sep 2013 23:16

Mini uavs :mrgreen:

:rotfl:
:rotfl:
:rotfl:

A simple scale down pushpak airframe with a go pro and with infra Red filters or a camera with infrared lenses
Can be easily made out of kits
Now we have giants like ADA BEL ECIL etc etc
And still import
When u suggested in 2009 to supply at one fifth the cost
People just made go merry go round
There is a strong anti Indian Babudom in MOD with Nanda dynasty control

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21175
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Prem » 17 Sep 2013 08:27

Lt Gen H S Panag(R) ‏@rwac48 2m IA on LC&LAC is aggressive beyond public expectations.Most actions not in public domain.This is my professional assessment!

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Austin » 19 Sep 2013 09:04

Not sure if this was posted

Interview: Lt General Narendra Singh, the Deputy Chief of Army Staff (DCOAS)

'A well structured and institutionalised planning process is in place for capability development and modernisation of the Indian Army'

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 21 Sep 2013 23:00

ramana wrote:Channakya chodo us bhaat ko. VKS has a different role of NSA in a NaMo admin.


Well left that matter but not for long. Read statement of the Good general himself.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/v-k-s ... /1172399/2
Singh, who had approached the Supreme Court seeking its intervention in his battle with the government over his date of birth, told ANI: "If the court can define the age of a rape victim on basis of his matriculation certificate, then why has the Supreme Court failed to decide my age despite checking and cross-checking my certificates?


"If the superior judiciary of this country can believe the matriculation certificate, and say a rapist and a murderer is a juvenile. What happens to my certificate which has been checked, rechecked and carbon-dated over a period of time? Why? Why didn't they give a decision?

"Knowing fully well that they were not going to give a decision since people were pressurizing them and asking them not to give it. So, the controversy was created."

KrishnaK
BRFite
Posts: 948
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 23:00

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby KrishnaK » 21 Sep 2013 23:10

I have trouble believing that the GoI and the Army themselves would go to the extent of accusing a former COAS of underhand dealings to the extent of trying to subvert the constitution if there was no truth to the matter. Fabrication at that level is pretty unbelievable IMO.

And to make matters clear, the Supreme Court never doubted the matriculation certificate. They only said, for the purposes of your tenure, the MoD one will hold.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 21 Sep 2013 23:16

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 865472.cms


In a statement, Gen Singh said the TSD was set up by the Army with full approval of defence minister AK Antony and the NSA.

He said the unit was formed after the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai on the basis of an operational directive given to the Army by the defence minister to perform a particular task to secure the borders and internal situation in the country.

The former Army chief said the TSD was not his "private or rogue Army" as was being alleged by certain organizations and it was budgeted by the DG Military Intelligence .

On the off-the-air-interceptors equipment which was allegedly used by the Army during his tenure to tap phones of defence ministry officials, he said it was under the Defence Intelligence Agency and not under the TSD.

He said such equipment can be used to tap conversation between mobile phones and not landline telephones.

On the charges that he was trying to block the elevation of present chief Gen Bikram Singh, he said had it been so, the Army at that time could have changed its stance on the particular case involving Bikram Singh in which a 70-year-old person, said to be a foreign terrorist, was killed.

He said generally, terrorists in J&K are not more than 30-32 years old.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 21 Sep 2013 23:52

KrishnaK wrote:I have trouble believing that the GoI and the Army themselves would go to the extent of accusing a former COAS of underhand dealings to the extent of trying to subvert the constitution if there was no truth to the matter. Fabrication at that level is pretty unbelievable IMO.

And to make matters clear, the Supreme Court never doubted the matriculation certificate. They only said, for the purposes of your tenure, the MoD one will hold.


With time vision dims.
SC upholds govt decision on Army Chief’s age
lGeneral’s DoB stays as May 10,1950; he’ll retire on May 31
New Delhi, February 10
Army Chief General Vijay Kumar Singh today gave up his fight in the Supreme Court for getting his date of birth (DoB) in the official records “reconciled” after the government partly withdrew Defence Minister AK Antony’s December 30, 2011 order and affirmed its full faith in his (Singh’s) integrity and ability to lead the second largest Army in the world.

As a result of today’s development, Gen Singh’s DoB will stay as May 10, 1950 on Army records, and not as May 10, 1951, as claimed by him. Consequently, he will retire on May 31 this year.

Recording Gen Singh’s statement that “he does not wish to press the matter further,” a Bench comprising Justices RM Lodha and HL Gokhale clarified in its brief order that it was “disposing of” his writ petition “accordingly,” implying that it was neither withdrawn by him nor dismissed by the court.

The Army Chief had come to the SC, challenging two Defence Ministry orders issued on July 21 and 22, 2011 and another by Antony on December 30, 2011, fixing his DoB as May 10, 1950. The age dispute was the result of two branches of the Army maintaining two different DoBs of Gen Singh.

The portion of Antony’s letter withdrawn by the government pertains to the reasons for rejecting his statutory complaint against the Defence Ministry’s decision to maintain his DoB as 1950.

Today’s order was basically the result of the efforts by the Bench to offer an honourable exit route to Gen Singh. In fact, the Bench made it clear during more than two hours of arguments that it wanted to pass an order that would not have any adverse reflection on his conduct, commitment or integrity.

The apex court clarified that it agreed to hear the plea as it did not want to leave it to other forums such as the AFT because of several important aspects involved in the controversy — its ramifications, public and national interest, and the image of the government and the Army Chief.

Senior counsel UU Lalit, who argued for Gen Singh, threw up his hands after the Bench raised a number of probing questions. The all important question that possibly brought about the change in the counsel was as to why was he going back on his commitment given to the government at the time of his last three promotions, including to the post of the Chief of Army Staff, that he would abide by the decision of his higher authorities in matter of his DoB.

“How could you resile from that commitment? We don’t allow even ordinary litigants to go back on their commitments even in arbitration proceedings,” the Bench remarked. Although Gen Singh was also an ordinary litigant in the eyes of law, “We can’t shut eyes to the fact that you are holding such a high office,” the judges noted.

The Bench also asked him as to why he did not take to judicial recourse when the controversy cropped up for the first time a few years ago. It was not proper that he had come to the SC at this stage.

The Bench also pointed out that Gen Singh had left the DoB decision in the hands of the authority after giving it a good thought, and not in a hurry. He had also clarified that he was leaving it to the authorities in the interest of the organisation. The Bench wondered why he was raking up the issue now after rising to the “pinnacle.”

“With your stature and after reaching the highest position and getting all that one could aspire for and having given the commitment, why are you messing up things unnecessarily,” the Bench asked.

“Persons holding such decorated offices should not unnecessarily drag the controversy over age into public domain,” the judges opined. It also pointed out that Gen Singh had “restated and reiterated” that the authorities would take the final call on the DoB, but was reopening the issue “at this final stage”

The Bench said Gen Singh did not assert on the DoB at the time of the last three promotions as he would have “exposed yourself to some disciplinary action” then.

Several letters written by Gen Singh “do reflect that you have left on them to take a final call on your DoB,” the court noted.

The judiciary could not quash the government order declaring his DoB as 1950 unless it suffered from any perversity and required to be corrected by the court under the extraordinary jurisdiction available under the Article 32, which Gen Singh had sought to invoke, the Bench observed.

The Bench said the UPSC record and the Army List were the crucial documents to determine the DoB and both were against Gen Singh’s claim. While the UPSC form, filled in by him in his own handwriting, showed 1950 as DoB, the Army List also showed the same date. Lalit, however, said UPSC was bound to correct the DoB as per the matriculation certificate, which showed 1951 as date of birth. Besides the matriculation certificate, his client had also provided certificates from his school headmaster and the Army regiment of his father in support of the claim that the DoB was 1951.

The Bench then pointed out that all “entry-level” documents pertaining to the National Defence Academy (NDA), Indian Military Academy (IMA) and the Union Public Service Commission (UPSC) showed his DoB as 1950. At this, Lalit said the admission form for the NDA was filled in by the teacher of his client as he was just 14 years old then and this mistake had to be repeated in the IMA and the UPSC to avoid confusion in the absence of the matriculation certificate which was not available then.

During the arguments, Gen Singh offered to quit immediately if the court declared his DoB as 1950. “Declare 1951 as the date of birth, I will go within 48 hours. I will go voluntarily or put in my papers,” counsel Lalit said.

At some other point, Lalit clarified that his client would retire on May 31 this year even if his DoB was taken as 1951. Lalit pleaded with the court to clarify that having the DoB as 1950 on the Army records should not create problems for Gen Singh as his DoB was 1951 on the passport, the permanent account number (PAN) issued by the Income Tax Department and some other documents. The Bench, however, clarified it was not in a position to do so as Gen Singh did not even want the court to record in its order that the SC was upholding the July 2011 orders of the Defence Ministry.

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23567
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 22 Sep 2013 05:02

Desperate Congress clutches at straws, hounds VK Singh

By Jay Bhattacharjee on September 21, 2013


Veteran observers of the capital’s corridors of power were expecting a major response from the UPA command centre after the spectacular success of Narendra Modi’s first major public appearance at the rally in Haryana a few days ago. Certainly, the presence of the former Chief of Army Staff, General VK Singh, along with a host of former flag officers (Lieutenant Generals, Major Generals and Brigadiers) would have rattled the Gandhi topiwallahs. However, what must have really shaken them was the response of the crowd that comprised a large percentage of ex-servicemen and their families. Even the motley strategists in 24 Akbar Road and 10 Janpath are aware that this part of the country (Rajasthan, Haryana and western UP) provides a sizable percentage of the enlisted men in the Army.

Two of the Army’s prominent infantry regiments (the Rajputana Rifles and the Jat Regiment) do their recruitment exclusively in this area. The combination of VKS and NaMo on the dais and the rapturous welcome they received from the crowd is something that the UPA think tank knows is their nightmare come to life. It does not require more than the minimum intelligence to visualise the impact this alliance could have in the 2014 polls. However, when the news filtered through this morning about the ruling regime’s riposte, most dispassionate observers started wondering about the levels to which our present rulers can stoop.

Using the same underhand methods that they had used in April 2012 against the General (who was then the Army chief), the UPA agent provocateurs planted a story in the Indian Express (which published it on Friday) that the good General, when he was chief, had used Army funds to try and topple, if you please, the J&K Government of Omar Abdullah. Supposedly, the new Chief, Bikram Singh (who had taken over from VKS) and his team have been looking at this episode and a ‘report’ has allegedly been submitted to the Defence Ministry. Now, why would the Army chief try to topple Omar baba’s piggy bank, and that too with an operating budget of a little more than Rs 1 crore? Clearly, the Keystone cops in Akbar Road and Janpath have an extremely poor opinion of the IQ level of the Indian public.

Let us go back a bit. In April 2012, Shekhar Gupta’s newspaper had published a front-page lead story which sensationally claimed that a large contingent of troops had moved to Delhi on January 16 -17 under the cover of planning for the Republic Day ceremonies, and this was an unauthorised deployment done under the direct or indirect prodding of General VK Singh. Gupta and his henchmen tried to portray it as an ‘attempted coup’. Clearly, an overdose of Frederic Forsyth and John le Carré here. When faced with the prospect of a major legal case by the General and the Army, these hacks beat a hasty retreat.

In any case, a good friend of mine, a former gunner of distinction, told me that it does not take 2500 soldiers to stage a coup in Delhi. Even 50 of our well-trained faujis, led by a Captain or two, are good enough to take over Raisina Hill and its assorted power points. The babus and the netas will run so fast that Usain Bolt would be surprised, according to my old friend.

But how can human nature not assert itself ? Gupta and his cohorts are now back at their old game. Of disinformation, character-assassination, venality and treason. Poor Ramnath Goenka must be dying a thousand deaths to know that his dream journal is now nothing but a shabby instrument in the hands of the dynasty that he loathed so heartily. It does not require an Einstein or a Hercule Poirot to realise that reports of the Army trying to topple the elected Government of a sensitive border state like J&K are nothing but manna from heaven in the hands of the terrorists and separatists on both sides of the LoC, as well as the official wings of the Pakistan Government. This will be ready ammunition for Pakistan to use in every conceivable international forum, not to mention among the hordes of Indian denizens sympathetic to the Pakistani cause.

The UPA war room and its agents in the world of the media and in Delhi’s salon circles are playing a hideous and obscene game to destroy the credibility of the one institution in this country that has survived the onslaught of treachery, graft and fraud, to a very large extent. Yes, there are fault lines in the armed forces – our soldiers come from the same cultural and civilisational background as the rest of the population and have the same DNA. There have been compliant generals like PN Thapar and BM Kaul who were buffoons and cowards, if not worse. There were fawning chiefs like Idris Latif, JJ Singh et al who got rewarded with plum gubernatorial or ambassadorial posts after retirement. There were even some like SM Nanda who went into the arms trade. And then there are people like the Major-General who was thrown out of service on serious charges, who was pontificating about the ‘sins’ of General VK Singh on TV on Friday evening.

The man is the younger brother of a press pundit and has no compunction in interacting with people shamelessly, even when the latter are aware of his peccadilloes. However, the overwhelming majority of the other ranks and the officers in our armed forces have been shining examples of courage, dedication, commitment and integrity. This is one institution that the motherland can unhesitatingly rely upon, during any crisis or catastrophe. The women and men in uniform will come to the nation’s succor, with no questions asked and no expectations of any reward. This is what is most galling to our babus and netas. That we have such a glorious role model at hand, when they themselves have their hands in the till and their feet in the slime.

Therefore, the babus and the netas entered into a despicable and unholy alliance since the General Thimmayya episode in 1959 to systematically downgrade and demoralise the armed forces, deny them their legitimate benefits and humiliate them in every possible manner. The babu-neta alliance is now seeing the ex-services population rallying around a Modi-Singh combine and this has sent them scurrying for cover. Naturally, this is the time for the dirty-tricks department to swing into action.

Historically, competing military powers have always tried to destabilise the armed forces of their rivals. Germany did that successfully to France with the Dreyfus affair that crippled the morale of the French Army for nearly two decades and split the French officer corps into two bitter rival camps. In the 1930s, the Germans again sowed dissension in the French armed forces, using class and political fault lines. The old French military families were generally Catholic and right-wing, not very fond of the Republic, while the younger officers often belonged to staunchly anti-clerical groups, committed totally to the republican cause. Canaris and his Abwehr in Berlin used their resources liberally in order to divide the French Army along these lines.

However, the classic success story of decimating an entire rival Army, without firing a shot, pertains to the clash between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. This virtually impossible feat was achieved by the German secret service. They almost destroyed the Soviet officer corps in the late 1930s by using a forged letter that purported to prove that the legendary Marshal Tukhachevski was actually a German spy. Heydrich was the author of this master-stroke; it involved using the innocent Dr Benes, the President of Czechoslovakia, a Soviet ally, into delivering the forged letter to Stalin.

The Georgian megalomaniac, always looking over his shoulder to see if there were any rivals, took this opportunity to launch a brutal purge of the Soviet armed forces. Marshal Mikhail Tukhachevsky was found guilty after a kangaroo trial and executed on June 11, 1937. Eight other Generals were also executed. However, Stalin’s blood-lust did not abate. The purges in the Soviet Armed forces continued till 1940 ; when they finally ended, the country had lost almost 40 per cent of its officer corps. This is the parallel that Indian citizens must keep in their minds ; our enemies within and outside are trying to do something similar to our armed forces. If this game plan with General VK Singh succeeds, it will split the Army into rival camps, polarise opinions and loyalties, and effectively leave the nation defenceless. Let us not be complacent about the inherent capabilities of the ISI and its personnel. They also read the same history books as we do.

All of us must stand up and ask the authors of this outrageous conspiracy to prove every word of their fantasies. Otherwise, we must put the whole thing down to panic stations in Janpath and Akbar Road, comparable to what happened in the Führerbunker in Berlin in early May 1945, as the victorious Red Army was fighting its way into Berlin. As the great Hugh Trevor-Roper wrote in his epic The Last Days of Hitler, his inner group was “as incalculable in its capacity for intrigue as any oriental sultanate”. Are Mrs Gandhi and her accomplices in the same league already?

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23567
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 22 Sep 2013 05:05

VK Singh: The man who gave UPA sleepless nights


By Rahul Tambekar on September 21, 2013



VK Singh: The man who gave UPA sleepless nightsGeneral VK Singh is back in news again. After sharing dais with the BJP’s Prime Ministerial candidate Narendra Modi in Rewari, Haryana the General has found himself involved in running ‘high profile’ secret operations engaged in snooping politicos, Army officials and attempts to overthrow the J&K Government during his heyday as Chief of the Army Staff (COAS).

General Singh has often found himself on the opposite side of fence vis-a-vis, the Government except probably at the time of his promotion as COAS. A commando by profession, he has a lot of exposure in counter-insurgency and combat operations. It seems, its the part of his training, which often comes out and results in skirmishes with the Government of the day. Otherwise, admired for his honest and firm dealings of things, Singh is often accused as one who is breaking norms and being high handed. His open admission of existence of bribery in Defence establishment created lot of hue and cry. But for Singh, it was a way of coming out open, aka, transparency. His alleged leakage of letter addressed by him to the Prime Minister was also condemned citing compromising over national security. However, going by his nature, if at all, he released it, it ought to be the case of right to truth, aka, right to true information. Let the people of this country know authentically, the dreams-world they are living in and let them realise actual defence preparedness they boast in their minds.

His actions of questioning and reprimanding his own officials in cases of corruption or conduct has not gone well with the Government, but his very intent of doing it was never under question. He tried to make ways for rooting out corruption in Army starting from the top brass. However, he had too little time to make an impact. That is the irony of democracy, that systemic changes take ages and generations. At least, it has become the part of discussions now. Likewise, his age controversy, which brought the Central Government and COAS head-on had given him much of the publicity and negative publicity. He was accused of being bluffing on his age for getting extension as the Army chief. Many find merit in this accusation. However, he was admired by his troops for taking on the UPA Government and even dragging it to the court.

It was unprecedented for an Army, which is subdued below a fat bureaucracy, which decides the fate of its pays and perks and the political masters whose whims and fancies make or brake its accomplishments made in war zones, that one of their own to fight so bluntly with their masters. If there was no material gains from that fight for the ordinary servicemen, they gained solace in seeing someone among them has the guts to take them on. As the pride and confidence of the armed forces comes from what its leaders do with enemy in battlefields, it also comes from the fact that how its leaders do not capitulate in front of our own who err. Be it extending support for ‘one rank one pension’ to highlighting precarious situations of ammunition and lack of officers in armed forces, Singh makes the case for exerting public pressures on the decision makers. This widening audience for an inclusive discussion of otherwise an issue limited to experts is what sets him apart. He may not be perfect, but his tenure as the Army chief followed by his entry to public life and politics marks the change and dynamics the age of information is bringing in the mindsets of our defence personnel. We have to welcome them, the same way we welcome the likes of corporate giants to politics and public life.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2013 06:23

Please post about VK Singh in the Congress game plan in GDF.

This thread is about Indian Army. What he is going thru is not germane to this thread.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Austin » 22 Sep 2013 12:15

The government continues to deny both serving and retired soldiers their rightful pay and perks and has quietly buried a Fifth Pay Commission study which found that they had a much lower life expectancy than their civilian counterparts. By PURNIMA S. TRIPATHI

A soldier’s worth

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4066
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby kit » 22 Sep 2013 13:43

chetak wrote:Desperate Congress clutches at straws, hounds VK Singh

By Jay Bhattacharjee on September 21, 2013


Veteran observers of the capital’s corridors of power were expecting a major response from the UPA command centre after the spectacular success of Narendra Modi’s first major public appearance at the rally in Haryana a few days ago. Certainly, the presence of the former Chief of Army Staff, General VK Singh, along with a host of former flag officers (Lieutenant Generals, Major Generals and Brigadiers) would have rattled the Gandhi topiwallahs. However, what must have really shaken them was the response of the crowd that comprised a large percentage of ex-servicemen and their families. Even the motley strategists in 24 Akbar Road and 10 Janpath are aware that this part of the country (Rajasthan, Haryana and western UP) provides a sizable percentage of the enlisted men in the Army.

Two of the Army’s prominent infantry regiments (the Rajputana Rifles and the Jat Regiment) do their recruitment exclusively in this area. The combination of VKS and NaMo on the dais and the rapturous welcome they received from the crowd is something that the UPA think tank knows is their nightmare come to life. It does not require more than the minimum intelligence to visualise the impact this alliance could have in the 2014 polls. However, when the news filtered through this morning about the ruling regime’s riposte, most dispassionate observers started wondering about the levels to which our present rulers can stoop.

Using the same underhand methods that they had used in April 2012 against the General (who was then the Army chief), the UPA agent provocateurs planted a story in the Indian Express (which published it on Friday) that the good General, when he was chief, had used Army funds to try and topple, if you please, the J&K Government of Omar Abdullah. Supposedly, the new Chief, Bikram Singh (who had taken over from VKS) and his team have been looking at this episode and a ‘report’ has allegedly been submitted to the Defence Ministry. Now, why would the Army chief try to topple Omar baba’s piggy bank, and that too with an operating budget of a little more than Rs 1 crore? Clearly, the Keystone cops in Akbar Road and Janpath have an extremely poor opinion of the IQ level of the Indian public.

Let us go back a bit. In April 2012, Shekhar Gupta’s newspaper had published a front-page lead story which sensationally claimed that a large contingent of troops had moved to Delhi on January 16 -17 under the cover of planning for the Republic Day ceremonies, and this was an unauthorised deployment done under the direct or indirect prodding of General VK Singh. Gupta and his henchmen tried to portray it as an ‘attempted coup’. Clearly, an overdose of Frederic Forsyth and John le Carré here. When faced with the prospect of a major legal case by the General and the Army, these hacks beat a hasty retreat.

In any case, a good friend of mine, a former gunner of distinction, told me that it does not take 2500 soldiers to stage a coup in Delhi. Even 50 of our well-trained faujis, led by a Captain or two, are good enough to take over Raisina Hill and its assorted power points. The babus and the netas will run so fast that Usain Bolt would be surprised, according to my old friend.

But how can human nature not assert itself ? Gupta and his cohorts are now back at their old game. Of disinformation, character-assassination, venality and treason. Poor Ramnath Goenka must be dying a thousand deaths to know that his dream journal is now nothing but a shabby instrument in the hands of the dynasty that he loathed so heartily. It does not require an Einstein or a Hercule Poirot to realise that reports of the Army trying to topple the elected Government of a sensitive border state like J&K are nothing but manna from heaven in the hands of the terrorists and separatists on both sides of the LoC, as well as the official wings of the Pakistan Government. This will be ready ammunition for Pakistan to use in every conceivable international forum, not to mention among the hordes of Indian denizens sympathetic to the Pakistani cause.

The UPA war room and its agents in the world of the media and in Delhi’s salon circles are playing a hideous and obscene game to destroy the credibility of the one institution in this country that has survived the onslaught of treachery, graft and fraud, to a very large extent. Yes, there are fault lines in the armed forces – our soldiers come from the same cultural and civilisational background as the rest of the population and have the same DNA. There have been compliant generals like PN Thapar and BM Kaul who were buffoons and cowards, if not worse. There were fawning chiefs like Idris Latif, JJ Singh et al who got rewarded with plum gubernatorial or ambassadorial posts after retirement. There were even some like SM Nanda who went into the arms trade. And then there are people like the Major-General who was thrown out of service on serious charges, who was pontificating about the ‘sins’ of General VK Singh on TV on Friday evening.

The man is the younger brother of a press pundit and has no compunction in interacting with people shamelessly, even when the latter are aware of his peccadilloes. However, the overwhelming majority of the other ranks and the officers in our armed forces have been shining examples of courage, dedication, commitment and integrity. This is one institution that the motherland can unhesitatingly rely upon, during any crisis or catastrophe. The women and men in uniform will come to the nation’s succor, with no questions asked and no expectations of any reward. This is what is most galling to our babus and netas. That we have such a glorious role model at hand, when they themselves have their hands in the till and their feet in the slime.

Therefore, the babus and the netas entered into a despicable and unholy alliance since the General Thimmayya episode in 1959 to systematically downgrade and demoralise the armed forces, deny them their legitimate benefits and humiliate them in every possible manner. The babu-neta alliance is now seeing the ex-services population rallying around a Modi-Singh combine and this has sent them scurrying for cover. Naturally, this is the time for the dirty-tricks department to swing into action.

Historically, competing military powers have always tried to destabilise the armed forces of their rivals. Germany did that successfully to France with the Dreyfus affair that crippled the morale of the French Army for nearly two decades and split the French officer corps into two bitter rival camps. In the 1930s, the Germans again sowed dissension in the French armed forces, using class and political fault lines. The old French military families were generally Catholic and right-wing, not very fond of the Republic, while the younger officers often belonged to staunchly anti-clerical groups, committed totally to the republican cause. Canaris and his Abwehr in Berlin used their resources liberally in order to divide the French Army along these lines.

However, the classic success story of decimating an entire rival Army, without firing a shot, pertains to the clash between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. This virtually impossible feat was achieved by the German secret service. They almost destroyed the Soviet officer corps in the late 1930s by using a forged letter that purported to prove that the legendary Marshal Tukhachevski was actually a German spy. Heydrich was the author of this master-stroke; it involved using the innocent Dr Benes, the President of Czechoslovakia, a Soviet ally, into delivering the forged letter to Stalin.

The Georgian megalomaniac, always looking over his shoulder to see if there were any rivals, took this opportunity to launch a brutal purge of the Soviet armed forces. Marshal Mikhail Tukhachevsky was found guilty after a kangaroo trial and executed on June 11, 1937. Eight other Generals were also executed. However, Stalin’s blood-lust did not abate. The purges in the Soviet Armed forces continued till 1940 ; when they finally ended, the country had lost almost 40 per cent of its officer corps. This is the parallel that Indian citizens must keep in their minds ; our enemies within and outside are trying to do something similar to our armed forces. If this game plan with General VK Singh succeeds, it will split the Army into rival camps, polarise opinions and loyalties, and effectively leave the nation defenceless. Let us not be complacent about the inherent capabilities of the ISI and its personnel. They also read the same history books as we do.

All of us must stand up and ask the authors of this outrageous conspiracy to prove every word of their fantasies. Otherwise, we must put the whole thing down to panic stations in Janpath and Akbar Road, comparable to what happened in the Führerbunker in Berlin in early May 1945, as the victorious Red Army was fighting its way into Berlin. As the great Hugh Trevor-Roper wrote in his epic The Last Days of Hitler, his inner group was “as incalculable in its capacity for intrigue as any oriental sultanate”. Are Mrs Gandhi and her accomplices in the same league already?


Wish there was a like button for posts ! :!:

Jaybhatt
BRFite
Posts: 172
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Jaybhatt » 22 Sep 2013 21:22

ramana wrote:Please post about VK Singh in the Congress game plan in GDF.

This thread is about Indian Army. What he is going thru is not germane to this thread.


With respect, one should not be bureaucratic and inflexible on these matters. The recent developments pertaining to General VK Singh are very much within the ambit of this thread. They affect the core of the Indian Army and its entire range of functioning. I cannot think that you would like to exclude such a vitally important issue like this from this thread. Let there be cross-posting on other threads but we must have them here. The title of the thread "Indian Army - News and Discussions" gives a sufficiently clear and wide mandate that the original editors had visualised for this thread.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19836
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Karan M » 23 Sep 2013 00:08

ramana wrote:Please post about VK Singh in the Congress game plan in GDF.

This thread is about Indian Army. What he is going thru is not germane to this thread.


Of course what he is going through is germane...it just shows how the Army is disrespected by politicians and senior figures are sought to be hounded if they don't become political lapdogs. The Congress's behaviour deserves to be tracked

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2013 02:26

Not really. He is being hounded for being VK Singh and not because of Indian Army. It was germane so long as he was the Chief of Staff. Now he is a retired soldier undergoing political travails.
There are many threads to track political vendetta

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19836
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Karan M » 23 Sep 2013 02:54

So because he is a former Army Chief, his Army heritage no longer matters? He is hounded in this manner, plus the fact that multiple reports note that IA people have been made to suffer because of the "peace process" business for trying to do whats right during the beheading stuff? Similarly, what of the manner in which other IA grievances have been left to fester..?
What of his points that corruption is deeply entrenched in the system and of which evidence has now been stated to "not work" (tapes)..
The crux of the issue is that the current INC has no respect for any of the fundamental institutions of the state and is busy subverting them or forcing them into actions against their own...
Its a fundamental slight to the Armed forces themselves when such skullduggery is employed against them, and they are forced to comply and honest officers are forced out as well
While keeping this thread purely focused on tactics, doctrine and equipment acquisition is fine (and understandable), there is a severe challenge facing the IA in terms of how its operational freedom is sought to be curtailed for political ends, forcing rtd officials to finally take a stand.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19836
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Karan M » 23 Sep 2013 03:01

Posted in the other thread:

Vijay Kumar Singh ‏@Gen_VKSingh 21 Sep They have already destroyed various institutions. Are now chipping at last resort of Nation, the Army and sadly some of our own helping them

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby RamaY » 23 Sep 2013 03:02

ramana wrote:Please post about VK Singh in the Congress game plan in GDF.

This thread is about Indian Army. What he is going thru is not germane to this thread.


Ramanaji,

I think it should be discussed here for the following reasons

1. Sri VKS is charged with nothing but treason, if the allegations are true. And the issue is about what he did when he was Chief of Army staff, not some politician.
2. It talks about the fight between Sri VKS and Sri Bikram Singh and intra-Army issues
3. It also talks about the relationship between Indian Army and GoI.

Jaybhatt
BRFite
Posts: 172
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Jaybhatt » 23 Sep 2013 14:52

Kit :

Wish there was a like button for posts !


You are right to bring up the issue of BR threads not having the "like" button for posts.

However, the portal that carries this article has a "like" option and also a comments section. It may be worth your while to visit the article page on the portal. There is already a very lively and informed debate going on there.

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/09/21/u ... 35669.html

krishnan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7342
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Location: 13° 04' N , 80° 17' E

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby krishnan » 23 Sep 2013 16:19

one of the comment for niticentral article

The Onus of Responsibility is on Defence Minister Also

The sensible citizens, particularly the soldier fraternity will not overly put emphasis on allegations that the Technical Service Division(TSD) of the military intelligence had misused secret funds to destabilize J&K government or to block the line of promotion of high ranking military officers including the present Chief General Bikram Singh. If Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia’s report is pointing fingers at General VK Singh for the so called irregularities by the secret service unit, the onus of equal responsibility on the incumbent defence minister, AK Anthony in these covert operations of the TSD cannot be ignored.

However the unusual enthusiasm of the government in leaking out this sensitive report only suggests that many people from the ruling side are not comfortable with Gen VK Singh in sharing the stage with Narendra Modi during the Ex-servicemen gathering at Rewari

Major Mathew Oommen(Retd)

Nyati Estate

Pune -411060

Mob 9890560111

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2013 20:07

Again folks this is about the Indian Army and not any political vendetta going on.
Final word.

No argues.

ramana

harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby harbans » 27 Sep 2013 14:22

Brigadier Hyde, CO of the famous Battle of Dograi 65 war where an outnumbered small band of soldiers from 3 Jat fought pitched hand to hand battles against a well entrenched enemy and won the town..is no more. May his soul RIP. Deepest Regards for your valiant efforts to defend this country. The Battle of Dograi is one battle Sir, that will always be remembered as one of India's finest ever.

raj-ji
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 67
Joined: 25 Oct 2010 19:31

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby raj-ji » 27 Sep 2013 21:57

Karan M wrote:So because he is a former Army Chief, his Army heritage no longer matters? He is hounded in this manner, plus the fact that multiple reports note that IA people have been made to suffer because of the "peace process" business for trying to do whats right during the beheading stuff? Similarly, what of the manner in which other IA grievances have been left to fester..?
What of his points that corruption is deeply entrenched in the system and of which evidence has now been stated to "not work" (tapes)..
The crux of the issue is that the current INC has no respect for any of the fundamental institutions of the state and is busy subverting them or forcing them into actions against their own...
Its a fundamental slight to the Armed forces themselves when such skullduggery is employed against them, and they are forced to comply and honest officers are forced out as well
While keeping this thread purely focused on tactics, doctrine and equipment acquisition is fine (and understandable), there is a severe challenge facing the IA in terms of how its operational freedom is sought to be curtailed for political ends, forcing rtd officials to finally take a stand.


To state that politics should not impact the armed forces is a good goal, but an unrealistic one. Take a look at the most powerful armed forces in the world and none are immune to this problem. The influence of politics on the US armed forces is very apparent, among other countries.

As for the skull duggery comment against the IA. The retired general in question is accused of skull duggery of his own. Something that would have been kept quiet had he not entered the political arena where mud slinging is an art form.

There are fundamental issues with linking the armed forces with politics of one party or another. They are supposed to be a professional arm of the government removed from politics. They may be impacted by politics but should not be involved or make an impact on political outcomes. If the general in question raised the issues he did in the past to put the spot light on problems that need fixing. He is a true patriot. If he did it to foster his own political ambitions, then his motives come under scrutiny. If he took an apolitical stand on issues facing the armed forces, he would get much more traction and possibly results.

No one that likes democracy likes to see the armed forces involved in politics and elections. There are too many examples from world history to show why that is a major step back for a democracy.

With over a billion people Indian citizens can decide themselves what kind of government they want. The armed forces should not be part of this discussion or equation. And further to the decision, this topic is now become more political than Indian army focused so it doesn't belong here.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54822
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 28 Sep 2013 09:11

harbans wrote:Brigadier Hyde, CO of the famous Battle of Dograi 65 war where an outnumbered small band of soldiers from 3 Jat fought pitched hand to hand battles against a well entrenched enemy and won the town..is no more. May his soul RIP. Deepest Regards for your valiant efforts to defend this country. The Battle of Dograi is one battle Sir, that will always be remembered as one of India's finest ever.



RIP to a hero of 1965 war!!!

Salute saar.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests