Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby RoyG » 25 Nov 2013 06:31

No more good morning from now on, its Jai Hind for Indian Army

Vineeta Pandey | Nov 23, 2013, 11:39AM IST

New Delhi: In an unique initiative to “free” Indian Army from its British colonial influence, Chief of the Army Staff General Bikram Singh has asked all its officers to greet each other with a crisp “Jai Hind” instead of any other word. This means it is no more going to be “Good Morning” and “Good Afternoon” greet in the Indian Army, which was mainly a practice among the officers.

So far the jawans of certain units greet with a Jai Hind, while many use other forms of salutations according to their regiments. While that continues, Gen Bikram Singh has asked officers to use “Jai Hind” since this form of salutation is more secular and has a patriotic reverence attached to it. Similarly, all Army functions will now end with “Bharat Mata ki Jai.”

The Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy have been using “Jai Hind” for a very long time but the Army was not using it uniformly. The salutation Jai Hind – or Victory to India – was first coined by Major Abid Hasan Safrani of Indian National Army (INA) and was immortalized by Subhash Chandra Bose as the battle cry during fight for independence. This battle cry is believed to have appealed to the freedom fighters and over a period of time became the most sought salutation in the country. Since Indian Army has its roots from East India Company many of the customs and traditions were inherited from the British, including forms of salutation based on different Regiments.

The Army chief has also asked the force to shed frills and five-star culture in unit activities including ceremonial function keeping in mind austerity measures. In order to bridge the gap between personnel, the chief has also asked for cutting down of officer-centric unit events and make them wider by involving persons of all ranks in the unit.

The chief has also asked to give equal opportunities to children of JCOs and Other Ranks to participate in self-development and social-recreational activities to obviate any perception of class divide. The COAS is also personally sensitizing all cadres on these issues.

Meanwhile, to sustain motivation levels of non-empanelled officers it has been decided to send them on foreign postings. “There is high level of frustration among officers who do not get promoted to higher ranks and feel stagnated. To keep them motivated a provision has been made that to give them foreign posting in order to keep them motivated,” said an official in ministry of Defense. :eek:

http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/NAT-TO ... 6-PHO.html

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 25 Nov 2013 19:28

'The Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy have been using “Jai Hind” for a very long time but the Army was not using it uniformly. The salutation Jai Hind – or Victory to India – was first coined by Major Abid Hasan Safrani of Indian National Army (INA) and was immortalized by Subhash Chandra Bose as the battle cry during fight for independence. This battle cry is believed to have appealed to the freedom fighters and over a period of time became the most sought salutation in the country. Since Indian Army has its roots from East India Company many of the customs and traditions were inherited from the British, including forms of salutation based on different Regiments. '


Completely Incorrect. Jai Hind has been a formal salution in the army for decades. It is used by jawans, JCOs when they address a senior - OR, JCO or Officer and by officers when they address Jawans and JCOs. In Sikh Units Sat Sri Akal is the formal and informal salution but Jai Hind is also used sometimes. Other units some times use Ram, Ram...informally but jai Hind formally. Assam Regt uses 'Tagada Raho' informally. In the Madras Regt they say Namaskaram sometimes. But Jai Hind is universally recognized as the formal salution every where. I have never heard it being used in the IAF or Navy but then I maybe wrong of course. I am however certain that IAF and Navy officers do not use Jai Hind with each other.

And I have to say this....talking of five star culture.... I don't think coming from the current COAS this is percieved as very credible by the junior officers.
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 25 Nov 2013 20:52, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby NRao » 25 Nov 2013 19:36

Akshay Kapoor,

Could you please learn to use HTML codes !!!!

It is very irritating to read through your post and then find out that the first para you posted is actually a quote from the previous post!!! And that the second para is actually your comment on that quote.

Your post reads as though everything you posted are your comments.

please mind the tone of your post. You can ask him to do the needful in a much polite manner. It is not as if he is a serial offender or something - rohitvats

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby nitinr » 25 Nov 2013 20:24

Air force has this culture.. how long it has been no idea. Been with a station commander and have heard him and his colleagues use Jai Hind only. Sometimes he uses Jai hind in private conversations also.. I guess its been a habit of long for him.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 25 Nov 2013 22:35

Thanks Nitin, would you by any chance remember the context and who the AOC was speaking to? An officer, Warrant Officer or Airman? From your post I presume it was with an officer.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Raja Bose » 25 Nov 2013 22:44

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Actually am going to be cheeky and post them here as I cant find the Mil Humour thread. Mods apologies and please feel free to delete if inappropriate. I genuinely tried hard to find the thread but couldn't. I have heard these many years ago from the chap it happened to.

1. During Op Pawan in Sri Lanka a Young Officer (YO) of the Assam Regt was leading a column when they suddenly came under ambush. The officer dove out of the vehicle and ordered 2 inch mortar deploy karo. Time passed, the firing carried on and own troops were retaliating with small arms but there was no mortar fire. So he asked his subedar saab ' saab mortar ko kya hua'. Response 'apke hukum ke mutabiq deploy ho gaya hai sahib'. He asks ' To fire kyun nahi aa raha hai?' Response ' ammunition to doosri gaadi mei aa raha hai sahib'. Subedar saab had decided that order was to deploy and he didn't worry about firing till he was asked. The YO was close to tears but was getting to know the aplomb under fire of his troops.

2. Army day parade - an Assam Regt contingent lead by I think the same offr above who was now a Major arrives in Delhi. One evening during the build up to the parade there is an incident. One of his troops a Mizo is peacefully playing the guitar in his tent. Starts getting teased by some other troops - Jats, Sikhs, Rajputs etc . Can't remember exactly what the issue was but something to do with him playing the guitar. All in good fun but this chap feels insulted takes out his dah and goes beserk. Couple of chaps are injured. He is captured and arrested by the CMP.

Contingent commander (the Major) is marched up in front of the Adm Commdt of Delhi Cantt. Gets an earful from a furious Col. Major Saab says 'sir may I explain ? This chap is a Mizo. They are nice people and good troops but can be temperamental. Sometimes minor things set them off and they can react in unexpected ways'.

In the Major's words ' The Col had a far away look in his eyes for a moment or two and then he calmed down and said 'I know what you mean. My wife is also a Mizo'!

T

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Akshay, I have moved your post to Mil humour (if anything to get it up on the topics list so people can read :mrgreen: )

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 26 Nov 2013 00:43

Thanks Raja ;-) Glad you all liked it.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby VinodTK » 28 Nov 2013 08:15

From DNA: Army acquiring cutting-edge devices for jawans

Advanced gadgets to provide soldiers a distinct advantage in surveillance during counter-terror operations.

In order to provide a tactical edge to soldiers involved in 26/11-style operations or fighting militants in close quarter battles in areas like J&K, the Indian army is in the process of procuring “flexible surveillance devices” for its infantry battalions. This would provide soldiers a distinct advantage in surveillance during the counter-terror operations and will assist in minimising the casualty of troops.

Indian army lost around 50 of its soldiers in combat operations in J&K alone this year; around
30 were killed in 2012, and 82 in 2011.

Officials said like some most advanced militaries of the world, the Indian army is also equipping its soldiers with critical technological tools. US and Israel military have been using this technology.

“This portable surveillance devices will provide real time information on terrorists hiding in a room or a built up area. Before launching an operation and without exposing soldiers to the enemy assault, we would know important details about the location of targets,” said an officer.

Army officials said that these devices will be fitted with thermal imaging cameras with night-enabled technology. Army has plans to purchase about 500 of such devices by the end of 2016.

Army headquarters has recently issued a Request for Information in this regard sources told dna that couple of Indian firms have expressed interest in supplying them.

All these devices will be given to the Ghatak units of the infantry battalion. Ghatak units are elite infantry platoons attached to each battalion which is mandated to spearhead assaults ahead of the battalions assault during counter-terrorism missions.

“Induction of these devices would reduce collateral damage. Normally there are chances of high casualty during such operations since the enemy is not in the line of vision. In jammu and Kashmir, for example, terrorists usually take shelter in houses. With this device we would be able to see through the walls,” officer added.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_27808 » 28 Nov 2013 17:20

Akshay Kapoor wrote:
'The Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy have been using “Jai Hind” for a very long time but the Army was not using it uniformly. The salutation Jai Hind – or Victory to India – was first coined by Major Abid Hasan Safrani of Indian National Army (INA) and was immortalized by Subhash Chandra Bose as the battle cry during fight for independence. This battle cry is believed to have appealed to the freedom fighters and over a period of time became the most sought salutation in the country. Since Indian Army has its roots from East India Company many of the customs and traditions were inherited from the British, including forms of salutation based on different Regiments. '


Isn't English an official language of India at the federal level? Isn't the Official Languages Act 1963 still in force? Doesn't this legislation state that English may still be used for all official Union business?

If so, doesn't the General's decree fall foul of the law?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vasu raya » 28 Nov 2013 19:36

Even the anti material rifle (AMR) could be coupled with man portable BFSR sized see through wall and foliage penetration radar

For the Dhruv, they could add a refueling probe on one side of the fuselage and on the other side mount a AMR, a radar that can see through walls in the nose guiding the AMR. More paratroopers/commandos can travel on these mounts like below in emergencies or urban warfare, maybe they can manage to secure them with safety bars seen on roller coasters

http://media.aerosociety.com/aerospace-insight/files/2011/04/ApacheRescue06.jpg

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby srin » 28 Nov 2013 21:21

A radar requires power (and it needs to be cooled), something that needs to be supplied at the expense of engine power, impacting the number of troops it can carry or service ceiling etc.

This is in addition to the weight of radar itself

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Sachin » 28 Nov 2013 21:22

Tiwari wrote:Isn't English an official language of India at the federal level? Isn't the Official Languages Act 1963 still in force? Doesn't this legislation state that English may still be used for all official Union business?

English is still an official language. And to be honest, I really did not digest that the Gen. Bikram Singh had to issue such orders. I mean is this really relevant for him to intervene. Indian Army being a unique entity, I guess each unit would have its own way of greetings etc. I have heard the official sounding "Jai Hind Srimaan", to "Ram..ram..saab" and "Sat Sri Akal". Officers generally go with the English way of greetings (among themselves), and use the regiment's preferred way when speaking to JCOs and others. Don't know if this directive was to make the Army more "secular".

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 28 Nov 2013 21:40

Hi Sachin,

Its nothing to do with 'secular'. Gen Singh with all respect likes issuing such orders. His ten commandments for example. An uncharitbale view is that this gives visibility with the powers that be at Delhi. A charitable view is that he just thinks its important. Nobody else thinks it is ;-). Ofcourse his MA and ADC and close staff officers must be saying 'Great idea sir. Enemy will be caught totally unawares'. Some Generals move in mysterious ways their wornders to perform.

Talking about Generals may I take the liberty of listing a few of my favourites. - Hanut Singh, PS Bhagat, Harwant Singh, Shankar Roychaudhari, BC Joshi, PC Katoch. Would be nice to hear who other's favourites are.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vasu raya » 28 Nov 2013 22:04

srin wrote:A radar requires power (and it needs to be cooled), something that needs to be supplied at the expense of engine power, impacting the number of troops it can carry or service ceiling etc.

This is in addition to the weight of radar itself


yes, it should be done at the expense of service ceiling based on the mission type and terrain, recollecting an anecdote

In Siachen, Dhruv proves a world-beater

Very quickly, the Dhruv demonstrated its superiority over the military’s tiny, single-engine Cheetah helicopters, which can barely lift 20 kilos of payload to Sonam. Touching down on a tiny H-shape formed on the snow with perforated iron sheets, the Dhruv’s pilots signalled to one of the soldiers on Sonam to climb aboard. Effortlessly, the Dhruv took off, circled the post and landed again. Another soldier clambered onto the helicopter and the process was repeated, then with a third, and then a fourth soldier. Even with all Sonam’s defenders on board, the twin-engine Dhruv --- painted incongruously in the peacock regalia of the IAF’s aerobatics team, Sarang --- lifted off and landed back safely.

“This helicopter is simply unmatched at high altitudes”, says Group Captain Unni Nair, HAL’s chief helicopter test pilot, who flew the Dhruv that August morning during “hot-and-high” trials at Sonam. That term means flying at extreme altitudes in summer, when the heat-swollen oxygen is even thinner than usual. “The army wanted the Dhruv to lift 200 kilos to Sonam; we managed to carry 600 kilos.”


what if it was Mumbai? or just any place under ASL 500m

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23455 » 29 Nov 2013 09:02

Akshay Kapoor wrote:Talking about Generals may I take the liberty of listing a few of my favourites. - Hanut Singh, PS Bhagat, Harwant Singh, Shankar Roychaudhari, BC Joshi, PC Katoch. Would be nice to hear who other's favourites are.


Keeping it to just the COAS - Thimayya, Maneckshaw, Vaidya, Sundarji, VN Sharma, VK Singh.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby wig » 29 Nov 2013 09:05

I felt this to be a particularly nice gesture of the Army Chief - a farewell to retiring officers
November 26 was a very special day for the Army officers who were retiring. For the past six months, the Indian Army Chief, General Bikram Singh has been personally saying good bye to retiring officers. In the Army, officers retire at an early age depending upon their rank. General Bikram Singh, at the end of month, invites all those are to retire to South Block in New Delhi and spends time with them, handing them papers of their post-retirement benefits before listening to each of them patiently on what can be done to improve the Army. Some officers, especially those retiring as Colonels are overwhelmed for they never had a chance to a one-to-one meeting with their Chief during their career. So far some 300 officers have met the Chief.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131128/nation.htm

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby VinodTK » 04 Dec 2013 04:47

From Business Standard By: Ajai Shukla

Government poised to appoint tri-service chief: Permanent Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee likely in January

ine years into the tenure of the United Progressive Alliance, the government is poised to appoint a tri-service military chief who would be the government’s single point of contact on national defence.

Indications emanating from the military brass and the ministry of defence (MoD) suggest that the army chief, General Bikram Singh, will be appointed permanent Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee (COSC) next month. Simultaneously, Lieutenant General (Lt Gen) Anil Chait, heading the Integrated Defence Staff (IDS), will succeed Gen Bikram Singh as the army chief.

A permanent Chairman COSC would be a four-star general like the chiefs of the army, navy and air force, but would wield less power than a five-star Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) that a Group of Ministers (GoM) had proposed in 2001. But the appointment would implement a key recommendation of last year’s Naresh Chandra Task Force (NCTF) on improving national security.
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News analysis: Tri-service military chief requires structural reform
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Yet, it would be insufficient to merely appoint army chief, General Bikram Singh, as the first permanent Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee (Chairman COSC), and bump up Lieutenant General (Lt Gen) Anil Chait as army chief. If these appointments are not accompanied by structural reform, they might seem no more than cynical ploys with an eye on the coming elections.
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Dec 2013 12:51

^^What does 'Permanent' mean here? Would it mean Gen. BS gets extension as he was to retire in May 2014?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 04 Dec 2013 13:08

Dhananjay wrote:^^What does 'Permanent' mean here? Would it mean Gen. BS gets extension as he was to retire in May 2014?


I think it means that a dedicated post will be created as Chairman, COSC. And with General BS being the senior most Service Chief and incumbent Chairman, COSC, he will be the first permanent COSC.

Till now, it was held by in the senior most Service Chief - in addition to his role as Chief of Staff (COS) of his Service. Now, you will have FOUR 4-star officers - COS of respective Service and Chairman, Chief of Staff Committee.

This excerpt from AS's blog explains the current situation:

There is already an ex-officio Chairman, COSC, who is the senior most of the three service chiefs. This is a sinecure without real power, as he is preoccupied with running his service, and also lacks adequate staff and establishment. A permanent Chairman COSC, backed by an effective headquarters and with the time to focus on tri-service matters, would be better poised to coordinate between the army, navy and air force.


A similar set-up exists in Pakistan as well.

But what the article does not explain is how the selection towards Chairman, COSC will be done in future.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Dec 2013 16:33

Meanwhile back at the ranch:

"Nineteen-year-old Ranvir (name changed) has a heartfelt ambition: he wants to join the Indian Army as a jawan and serve his country. Regrettably, his ambition is unlikely to be fulfilled. Because though the young man, who comes from a town near the foot of the Garhwal hills, has passed the required physical tests not just once but three times with flying colours, the official selectors refuse to recruit him unless he pays up Rs 1.5 lakh as an enlistment 'fee'. Ranvir's father, a hill taxi driver, doesn't have that kind of money at his disposal. So Ranvir's dream of becoming a soldier and helping to protect the country that he loves will probably never be fulfilled."

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... no-defence

Oh! and BTW, the same thing happens to wannabee cops. Plus, they have to buy their own uniforms. Figure out the consequences....

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Rahul M » 04 Dec 2013 17:13

Marten, at that level corruption is there during recruitment. giving money for army recruitment at jawan level is a story you would hear anybody who has been through that experience. also, in some cases scamsters with no links to army fleece people by making up false stories.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby atreya » 04 Dec 2013 17:20

Yes, I stayed in a PG accommodation full of job-seekers for 2 years and I've heard a good number of stories of bribing for getting into the armed forces. One chap told me he tried to get into the Navy but couldn't (despite performing flawlessly in all the tests) because some of the others bribed the guy in-charge there. I took all of these stories with a bagful of salt though; it is human tendency to blame everyone else for their failure apart from themselves. Still, I can't dismiss all of them either.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 04 Dec 2013 20:43

The corruption in recruitment of jawans at recruitment center level is something which IA has faced for a very long time. It has been there for quite some time with involvement of both officer and jawans coming to fore.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby vaibhav.n » 05 Dec 2013 17:26

Quick Update:
Just returned from a holiday to Jammu and short trips to Udhampur and Srinagar. The infrastructure has improved tremendously. The Jammu-Udhampur link road has been four laned and is 95% complete and has been executed beautifully with more than 30-40 bridges. The travel time has been cut short from the previous three and a half hours to an hour and half. I think the plan is for the raod to be Four Lane till Uri.

Link: http://www.afcons.com/downloads/newsletter/Insight%20October%202012.pdf

The Jammu-Samba-Pathankot had already been four Laned now multiple feeder bypass has been contructed to avoid Jammu City and rejoins the main highway near Ratnuchak just short of BD Bari.

Jammu-Samba Bypass
Image

Udhampur Four Lane Road
Image

The High speed Road and Rail networks will aid the IA tremendously to Surge troops and materials with both Pak and PRC compressing deployment timelines additionally allowing movement from the countryside. These are nothing less than modern feats of engineering.

Railway Update:

The Jammu-Udhampur-Srinagar-Baramulla is the most challenging project, with completion till Udhampur at one end and the completion of the Qazigund Line at the other.

Udhampur Line
Image

Image

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Yayavar » 06 Dec 2013 11:05

rohitvats wrote:The corruption in recruitment of jawans at recruitment center level is something which IA has faced for a very long time. It has been there for quite some time with involvement of both officer and jawans coming to fore.


The police constable 'collects' from the public -- have seen it happen and been subject to it. What is the incentive to an IA Jawan to pay a big fees - where does he make it up?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby rohitvats » 06 Dec 2013 15:46

viv wrote:
rohitvats wrote:The corruption in recruitment of jawans at recruitment center level is something which IA has faced for a very long time. It has been there for quite some time with involvement of both officer and jawans coming to fore.


The police constable 'collects' from the public -- have seen it happen and been subject to it. What is the incentive to an IA Jawan to pay a big fees - where does he make it up?


Given the employment scenario for someone with education at jawan level and the competition, many are willing to pay money simply to secure a government job. Most of these village lads (and their parents) are aware of the army and benefit(s) it brings to someone in uniform and family. And the bribe is much lesser than say for a police constable - exactly for the reason that unlike a police constable, a normal jawan does not have avenue for recuperating the 'investment'.

Having said that - employment in positions or corps which have opportunity to recuperate cost, the bribe is likely to be higher.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby AdityaM » 11 Dec 2013 09:51

article by recently-retired Syed Ata Hasnain
http://strategicstudyindia.blogspot.in/ ... alley.html

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby atreya » 11 Dec 2013 11:06

From the article linked above ^^

Best part of the whole article

Not a single new golf course has come up and yes, guest rooms are indeed necessary to ensure that more armchair strategists visit Kashmir to be briefed at Keran, Machel, Gurez, Uri, Sopore, Tral and Shopian, before passing judgement on their professional army. Don't just visit Srinagar, Gulmarg and Pahalgam to make up your mind because the advice you will then proffer will never meet the professional needs of our army or that of our nation. Learn to trust your army — it is your army.
:D

Typical Hasnain: frank and to-the-point, backed with facts. Exactly the kind of people we need in Kashmir!

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby jamwal » 11 Dec 2013 12:58

vaibhav.n

The highway and railway line upto Udhampur have been in use for 18-19 months now.
It's really great how they are working on railway line. The mountains are very unstable there and the route will take a lot of maintenance.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 11 Dec 2013 14:45

^^

Great article from Gen Hasnain. We need clear thinkers everywhere not only in Kashmir. Most of all at the top in New Delhi.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby member_23360 » 11 Dec 2013 20:57

visited vaishnodevi temple in last august, railway line is operational till udhampur and will be connected to katra soon.

on road side, there was construction going on to build alternative road (4 lane) to connect srinagar.

i think currently only jawahar tunnel connects srinagar to jammu.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chaanakya » 13 Dec 2013 14:25

Lt Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag will be next vice chief of army



The head of the Eastern Army Command, Lieutenant General Dalbir Singh Suhag, will take over from Lieutenant General SK Singh as the vice chief of army staff when Lt Gen Singh retires on December 31.


Lt Gen Suhag himself will be replaced by Lieutenant General MMS Rai at the Kolkata-based Eastern Army Command. The Jaipur-based Southwestern Army Command will be headed by Lieutenant General Arun Kumar Sahni.


From being the vice chief of army staff, Lt Gen Suhag is also expected to succeed as the chief of army staff when General Bikram Singh retires on July 31 2014. Incidentally, his promotion to an army commander was held up for some time last year after the then Army chief Gen VK Singh imposed a discipline and vigilance (DV) promotion ban on him. The ban was later lifted by Gen Bikram Singh.

Lt Gen Suhag joined the National Defence Academy in 1970 and was commissioned into the 4/5 GR (FF) in June 1974. He has served as a company commander in “Op Pawan” in Sri Lanka, commanded the 53 Infantry Brigade, which was involved in counter insurgency operations in the Kashmir Valley and commanded the 8 Mountain Division in Jammu & Kashmir.

Lt Gen Rai has commanded an armoured engineer regiment in the plains, a mountain brigade in the Northeast and a Rashtriya Rifles Force in Jammu and Kashmir during his career.

Lt Gen Sahni has commanded a mountain artillery brigade employed in counter insurgency operations in the Northeast, an independent infantry brigade in Jammu & Kashmir as well as the largest corps of the Indian Army in the Northeast, responsible for security along the border with China and Myanmar.

chetak
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby chetak » 13 Dec 2013 18:39

A National Security Doctrine is Imperative


The concluding part of the analysis on civil-military relations argues that India’s national security concerns demand that all interests and all institutions of national power are brought to work most closely together to further the country’s interest and build a militarily and economically strong nation that enjoys the world’s trust and respect
N.N. Vohra



OVER the years, continuing efforts have been made by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to promote jointness through integration of the planning, training and other systems so that, progressively, a tri-service approach could get fully established. However, certain issues continue to affect the efficient functioning of the defence apparatus:

There must be no further delay in finalising the National Security Doctrine, on the basis of which integrated threat assessments can be made.

While some improvements have been achieved in the past years, the MoD must enforce strict measures to ensure that the DRDO, ordnance factories, defence public sector undertakings and other concerned agencies function efficiently to deliver supplies and services as per the envisaged time and cost schedules. Prolonged delays cause serious difficulties for the armed forces and large economic losses as the lack of certainty about supplies from indigenous sources compels expensive imports.

While there have been notable advances in the rationalisation of the procurement policies and procedures, there is still need to ensure against prolonged acquisition proceedings as such delays altogether nullify the “make or buy” approaches.

The individual services enjoy the autonomy of taking decisions to make their own selections of weapons, equipment and systems. The Integrated Service Headquarters must take effective steps to establish a tri-service approach in regard to such decisions as doing so will engender very significant financial savings.

Defence planning process has still to get established. The X and XI Plans were implemented without receiving formal approvals. While the Long Term Integrated Perspective Plan has since been finalised, it is still viewed as a totalling up of the wish lists of the individual services. The Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) must devote urgent attention towards finalising a fully integrated defence plan with at least a 10-15 year perspective.

The services enjoy the authority of virtually settling their own manpower policies. The pro-rata percentage representation of arms and services in the Army needs to be modified as it is virtually a “quota system” which breeds group loyalties and cuts at the very roots of jointness within the service.

While the functioning of the defence apparatus has been getting steadily refined, the continuing lack of consensus among the three services is thwarting the achievement of the vital objective of “jointness”. A number of joint service institutions have come into existence in the post Kargil War period. Among the new institutions, frequent references are made to the IDS, Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA), Andaman & Nicobar Command and the Strategic Forces Command. While it may be far too early to rejoice over these inter-agency institutions, it is disconcerting to learn that the individual services are not doing all that is required to see that these get fully established without facing delays and difficulties. A former Army Chief is quoted to say that the IDS is “a redundancy in military bureaucracy”; the founder Director of DIA is quoted to bring out that “the DIA cannot deliver as the intelligence agencies of the three services feel threatened by it” and about the IDS it is stated that “the services will never allow this body to function as they feel threatened that it will start examining the basis of their budgetary proposals, acquisition plans and force structures”.

Consequences of economic meltdown

The time has come for the individual services to close their ranks and get collectively concerned about the major threats and formidable challenges which we face in our close neighbourhood and beyond. The global security environment is continuing to become growingly complex and huge uncertainties loom large on various fronts.

Our military has to be also concerned about the consequences of the economic meltdown and the strong likelihood of the allocations for defence facing a significant decline. In this scenario, to prepare for successfully meeting future challenges, it is of the highest importance that the individual services shed all reservations and establish meaningful jointness. A truly tri-service approach will reduce functional overlaps, wasteful duplications and redundancies. The IDS have already promulgated a joint doctrine for the armed forces, which is presently undergoing revision because of the differing views of the service headquarters on several issues. Any delay in this regard would come in the way of the armed forces preparing themselves fully for delivering an effective response when any emergency arises in the future.

The defence ministry must realise the need to keep a very close watch on the rising cost of maintaining the military apparatus and ensuring that the high cost of the longer term acquisitions can be met from within the future availability of resources. Urgent attention needs being paid to reducing dependency on imports. This would require a very vigorous revving up of the ongoing indigenisation programmes. In the years past, only the Navy initiated systematic steps to foster indigenisation of their major platforms and systems and deserve all praise for the wonderful outcomes which they have already been able to achieve.

It also needs being noted that India is not the only country which is engaged in dealing with problems relating to the functioning of the defence management apparatus. Many democracies have been facing such problems and, benefitting from their own past experiences, several countries have established strong parliamentary oversight bodies to monitor all important issues relating to their armed forces. Some countries have even inducted external experts to monitor their ongoing defence reform processes.

Evolving a model for jointness

India cannot and must not be left behind in doing all that needs to be done for strengthening and enhancing our national security interests. We need to develop our own model of defence management which vigorously promotes and sustains military professionalism while being fully in tune with our constitutional framework and in harmony with our glorious traditions and soldiering. The model to be evolved should also not be excessively encumbered with varied hierarchical fixations which are rooted in our colonial past.

Considering the threats and challenges which loom on our horizon it is extremely important that our higher defence management structures are founded in the need to maintain a sensitive balance between the civil and military components and, side by side, ensuring that the entire military apparatus functions strictly within the parameters of “jointness”.

It would be an ideal situation if the service chiefs were to collaborate closely and for the Chiefs of Staff Committee to itself take the various required decisions to pave the way for the future and establish jointness, brick upon brick. In the past over two decades many useful opportunities were lost because of the lack of convergence in the views of the service headquarters.

If jointness and a tri-service approach cannot be achieved soon enough then, perhaps, the only option left may be to proceed towards replacing the existing single service Acts by an Armed Forces Act which would lay a statutory basis for achieving jointness and delineating the roles, duties and missions of the armed forces, as also the procedures and modalities relating to the functioning of the defence apparatus. In this context, it may not be out of place to recall that the US achieved its objectives by promulgating the Goldwater Nichols Act in 1986, after nearly four decades of experimentation under the aegis of its National Security Act. More recently, because of the serious budgetary problems faced by the country, UK has been devoting a high level of attention to reforms in its defence management apparatus. In this context, the Levene Report has sought to clarify the respective roles and responsibilities of ministers, civilian officers and the military at the policy, strategic and operational levels.

A dedicated security cadre

In so far as the tenure of civilians working in the MoD are concerned, a dedicated security administration cadre should be established by drawing in the best available talent from the civil services, defence services, DRDO, science and technology, information and communication technology, broadcasting and media, et al. This dedicated cadre should enjoy open ended tenures and those found fit should be enabled to develop specialisation in dealing with security related matters and be deployed in the MoD, Ministry of Home Affairs, Research and Analysis Wing, Intelligence Bureau, National Security Council secretariat and other security management related areas for their entire careers. This recommendation is contained in the Report of the Task Force on Internal Security (2000). It was accepted by the Group of Ministers (GoM) and after hearing it, the GoM had gone further and added that as “the assignments in these ministries/agencies are perceived as exacting and unattractive, the members of such a pool should, therefore, be appropriately compensated by provision of non-monetary incentives”. It is time to resurrect and speedily implement this decision of the GoM.

Another factor noted by the GoM was related to the marked difference in the perception of roles between the civil and military officers. A task force was set up to work out the curricula for organising a continuing Joint Civil and Military Training Programme on National Security, which would be undergone by Brigadier and Major General and equivalent rank officers, IAS, IPS, IFS, central police forces and, as the training settled down, participants would also be drawn from the media, industry and other arenas. On the basis of this task force’s recommendations the first two-week programme commenced at the IAS Training Academy at Mussoorie, in February 2003. This programme has been successfully continuing for over a decade now and the 20th course commenced at Mussoorie in November 2013. It would be beneficial if the MoD reviews this programme and suitably recast its contents to meet the existing and emerging scenarios.

Reviewing promotion system

Controversial interviews relating to personal issues, the Raksha Mantri’s decision being challenged in the Apex Court and several other unseemly scandals have marred the army’s image and dragged the services into the cesspool of partisan and parochial politics. This has caused divisiveness and serious damage to the very fabric of our military. It is indeed most unfortunate that any questioning of the deviations from the well established norms is viewed as questioning the very loyalty of the entire army. Such incidents, which have a great adverse affect on the morale of the armed forces, must not be allowed to recur under any circumstances. Time has perhaps come to review the entire existing basis of promotions and appointments to the higher echelons in the three services.

The patriotism and professionalism of the men and women of our armed forces is second to none among the militaries the world over. Our national security concerns demand that all interests and all institutions of national power are brought to work most closely together to further the country’s interest and build a militarily and economically strong India which enjoys the trust and respect of all our neighbours. In conclusion, the country must come first, always and ever, and never forget “who lives if India dies.”

Refining Jointness

Continuing lack of consensus among the three services is thwarting the achievement of the vital objective of jointness

The military also has to be concerned about the consequences of the economic meltdown and the strong likelihood of the allocations for defence facing a significant decline

Higher defence management needs to maintain a sensitive balance between the civil and military components and ensure that the entire military apparatus functions strictly within the parameters of jointness

A dedicated security administration cadre should be established by drawing in the best available talent from the civil services, defence services, DRDO, science and technology, information and communication technology

Part 1 can be accessed here
The writer is Governor of Jammu and Kashmir. Excerpted from the National Security Lecture — 2013 on Civil Military Relations: Opportunities and Challenges, delivered at the United Services Institution, New Delhi

pankajs
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby pankajs » 13 Dec 2013 20:27

Why did you accept US award without govt clearance? Govt asks Army chief
NEW DELHI: The acceptance of a US military award by Army chief Gen Bikram Singh has not gone down well with the defence ministry which has sent a poser to him asking why he received it without government clearance.

The Army chief was conferred with the 'Legion of Merit', the sixth highest American military honour, during his visit to the US from December 2 to 5.

pankajs
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby pankajs » 14 Dec 2013 14:28

Indian Army 'misused government land to build golf courses for officers'
India's Army top brass "grossly misused" valuable government land to build exclusive golf courses for its senior officers, according to a parliamentary report.

The Army is believed to have built as many as 90 "prohibited" golf courses around the country, many of them on land designated for training.

The public accounts committee report called on the Indian defence ministry to hold its own inquiry into how military land had been turned into private golf clubs which sold memberships to civilians and foreign diplomats.

According to the committee, club houses had been hired out to civilians as wedding and party venues but the funds generated had not been declared or passed to the government.

<snip>

It questioned a decision by the Army Chief to list golf as a 'sport' in 2004 and said it was "shocked to find that Defence authorities had been offering membership of the golf courses to civilians on payment basis so much so that in places like Delhi even foreign diplomats were being given membership and revenue generated from the civilian membership was not being credited to the government account".

ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 15 Dec 2013 00:05

NN Vohra Lecture at USI full text:

http://www.usiofindia.org/Events/View/?eid=214

ramana
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby ramana » 16 Dec 2013 20:45

Wait a minute. On Bharat Rakshak site articles and comments against the award of a honor by US to the Indian Army Chief are being linked?
Ghor kaliyug. What is the world coming to?

The vetrerans never are satisfied about the remains. Most of the sites are in sensitive border areas.

The medal was awarded to further US military ties and not just to pamper India.

Something for the veterans to mull over.

And above article should be in the strat forum as the protest is more of a political nature.


So will move it over to the Indi-US News and discussion thread.

Commnet: Ever BS does not merit an article.

devesh
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby devesh » 16 Dec 2013 20:58

thanks for the reply. I posted it here primarily to point out that a somewhat "famed" Indian defense mag was publishing such articles, and possibly doing so with direct contact with the instigators of the protest.

Victor
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby Victor » 17 Dec 2013 03:11

Image
Image

Happy Vijay Diwas.

Never figured out why the pakis put such an effeminate-looking specimen of a soldier on the stamp. Or even why they issued such a stamp in the first place.

sanjaykumar
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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Postby sanjaykumar » 17 Dec 2013 03:18

90 000 Prisoners of war are a challenge to world conscience but mass rapes and genocide are not a challenge to Islamic conscience.


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