Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

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RajeshA
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Pranav wrote:
RajeshA wrote:The paper above speaks of the variability of the precession of the equinoxes, but attributes this to the elliptical orbit around the Vishnunabhi.
The elliptical orbit is around the common center of mass of the sun and its hypothesized dual. Look at the animation at http://www.binaryresearchinstitute.org/ ... eory.shtml . This center of mass is not the Vishnu Nabhi.

But this motion leads to the variation of of the distance of the sun from the 'Vishnu Nabhi". At some points in the ellipse the Sun is close to the Vishnu Nabhi (Satya Yuga), and at other points it is far (Kali Yuga).
Pranav ji,

thanks for the clarification. Even from the spiritual sense it makes a lot more common sense.

Can it be that each Yuga subtends approximately the same sector area at the Vishnunabhi?
Last edited by RajeshA on 09 Jul 2012 00:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Murugan »

Rajesh-ji

everyone respects yutketeshwar giriji and aurobindo, but it would be better that astronomy things are left to astronomers, cosmologists and mathematician to decide. But it seems astronomers are not agreeing on many things for ages. Differences are to remain. You know, Stephen Hawiking's Black Hole theory was trashed by BARC's Abhas Mitra... It is under burkha acknowledged by Stephen Hawking himself later (!?) Jayant Narlikar's theory do not consider big bang theory valid etc. He is proponent of Steady State Cosmology Disagreement and confusion - nothing new in astronomy and cosmology front.
The Indian astronomical siddhants assumed that the commencement of kalpa, all the planets (including the moon's descending node, ketu) were in conjunction, i.e., at the same celestial longitude at the first point of Aries. The ascending node of moon, called Rahu, was supposed to be 180 degree away, i.e., at the first point of Libra. Further in traditional yuga theory, a period equal to 3.95 times that of a Maha Yug is earmarked for the time spent in 'creation' of the world. Presumably the purpose of this arrangement, astronomically, is to bring all the planets together when the new order of the world starts.

But, Aryabhatt I dispensed with the queer traditional theory of the yugas. He replaces it with a a simpler and astronomically more viable (computationwise) theory as follows:

1 kalpa = 14 Manus
1 Manu = 72 (Maha) Yugs (instead of 71)
1 (Maha) Yug = 43,20,000 years

In this arrangement, 1 kalpa = 1008 (Maha)Yugs (instead of 1000). Since 1008 is divisible by 7, every kalpa commences on the same weekday. Aryabhatt completely dispensed with the time spent in 'creation' and the 'twilight' - sandhya periods.

Further, He divided a Mahayuga into four parts, but the equal durations unlike the traditional division of 4:3:2:1. For astronomical computations this equal division of 10,80,000 years each is more appropriate since in this period all planets complete integral numbers of revolutions. In other words, at the commencement of each Yugpad the planets would all be in conjunction at
the beginning of the zodiac. May be, Aryabhatt hit upon the scheme of equal division into 4 parts of a Mahayug since 4 happens to be a common factor for the numbers of revolutions of the planets in a Mahayug (except in the cases of Moon's apogee and node).

While in the vedic literature, the word yuga was used to mean a period of 5 years, in later literature, even before Aryabhatt, the word yuga referred to very large period of time. So far as the Hindu astronomy is concerned, yugs of large periods have been used to express the mean angular velocities of the heavenly bodies (and other important points like apogee and nodes) in terms of integral numbers of revolutions in those periods. Thus they could easily avoid inconvenient vulgar fractions. Of course, Aryabhatt's yug division reduced the size of the huge integers involved

- From Dr S Balachandran Rao's Indian Mathematics and Astronomy
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY wrote:
RajeshA wrote:From Wikipedia: Yuga

While the long yuga count is the most popular it does not correlate to any known celestial motion found in the Astronomical Almanac. The value of 24,000 years is within 7% of the modern astronomical calculation of one full precession of the equinox of 25,772 years. This phenomenon is observed as the stars moving retrograde across the sky at about 50 arc seconds per year and is thought to produce periods of warm ages and ice ages known as the Milankovitch cycle, thus the yuga cycle may have some basis in known terrestrial cycles.

We need an additional Yuga to compensate for the difference! 25,772 - 24,000 = 1,772 years. If we divide between ascending and descending then Yuga X = 886 years long.

Added Later: Not needed. See below.
The sloka in Vyasa Bhagavatam says 26,000 for the precision of equinox rotation. It is how Dhruva was given the boon by Sri Vishnu. I think I posted this in "in the paths of stars thread'.
RamaY ji,

Manusmriti is quite clear about the length of the yugas.
67. A year is a day and a night of the gods; their division is (as follows): the half year during which the sun progresses to the north will be the day, that during which it goes southwards the night.

68. But hear now the brief (description of) the duration of a night and a day of Brahman and of the several ages (of the world, yuga) according to their order.

69. They declare that the Krita age (consists of) four thousand years (of the gods); the twilight preceding it consists of as many hundreds, and the twilight following it of the same number.

70. In the other three ages with their twilights preceding and following, the thousands and hundreds are diminished by one (in each).

71. These twelve thousand (years) which thus have been just mentioned as the total of four (human) ages, are called one age of the gods.

72. But know that the sum of one thousand ages of the gods (makes) one day of Brahman, and that his night has the same length.

73. Those (only, who) know that the holy day of Brahman, indeed, ends after (the completion of) one thousand ages (of the gods) and that his night lasts as long, (are really) men acquainted with (the length of) days and nights.
Satya Yuga (Krita Yuga) = 4 x 100 (preceding twilight) + 4 x thousand (main yuga) + 4 x 100 (following twilight) = 4,800 years

Treta Yuga = 3 x 100 (preceding twilight) + 3 x thousand (main yuga) + 3 x 100 (following twilight) = 3,600 years

Dwapara Yuga = 2 x 100 (preceding twilight) + 2 x thousand (main yuga) + 2 x 100 (following twilight) = 2,400 years

Kali Yuga = 1 x 100 (preceding twilight) + 1 x thousand (main yuga) + 1 x 100 (following twilight) = 1,200 years

1 Kalpa = Satya Yuga + Treta Yuga + Dwapara Yuga + Kali Yuga = 4,800 + 3,600 + 2,400 + 1,200 = 12,000 years = 1 Age of Gods
2 Kalpas = Yuga Cycle = 24,000 solar years

1000 Ages of Gods = 1 Day of Brahma (daylight)
2000 Ages of Gods = 1 Day of Brahma (daylight + night) = 2 Kalpas.

12,000 x 2000 = 24 million years = 1 Day of Brahma

This differs a bit when one considers the above years to be Daiva years and not solar years. 1 daiva year = 360 human years. That is the other time reckoning that is given.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Murugan ji,

earlier the rsis were the astronomers. So I would consider Sri Yukteswar to be within his 'jurisdiction' to do astronomy. Besides he was just interpreting and clarifying earlier knowledge.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:Murugan ji,

earlier the rsis were the astronomers. So Sri Yukteswar is within his 'jurisdiction' to do astronomy. Besides he was just interpreting and clarifying earlier knowledge.
Murugan ji is saying something else and he has a valid point. Sri Yukteswar is a person of modern era
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Murugan ji,

earlier the rsis were the astronomers. So Sri Yukteswar is within his 'jurisdiction' to do astronomy. Besides he was just interpreting and clarifying earlier knowledge.
Murugan ji is saying something else and he has a valid point. Sri Yukteswar is a person of modern era
Please elaborate. I did not understand his point.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RamaY »

RajeshAji

That brings another thought. Who/what was the polar star mentioned in Manusmriti?

Perhaps by the time Dhruva became the polar start (After Pragjyotisha/Tuba) the equinox earth was more accurately measured to be 26,000 years?

If we were to plot various Manus and see if they represent a star/star-group and see how they coincide with solar/lunar years, we may be able to calculate backwards.

In sanskritam one meaning of Yajnas is Year. Yajna is following the year thru various seasons and planning/conducting ones life according to that cycle.

Another thought is if devatas have 1 year = 1 day, that might indicate the Indics who lived in polar regions (earlier the Uurthva lokas are limited to devatas - that is northern skys). And sage Viswamitra found southern hemisphere (or mapped southern hemisphere). This is indicated in Trisanku swarga story where Viswamitra made an alternative creation.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY ji,

As it stands the Binary Research Institute based on their calculations, are saying that one revolution of the solar system around the vishnunabhi takes 24,000 years (one precession of the equinoxes).

If the years expressed in our scriptures are taken to be solar years and not Daiva years, then the Yuga Cycle (ascending and descending) corresponds to exactly the above value - 24,000 years.

Now for me personally, I am seeing this today for the first time, and basically I am flabbergasted. It means the Ancient Indian Rishis were in the know of an astronomic period/cycle longer than one year (non-planetary), just about so long as one would map human civilization.

Perhaps that is the reason, why I am a bit hesitant to look into the 26,000 years for the precession of the equinox. I am a bit still too overwhelmed. The 24,000 year value is simply built in into our scriptures and the cosmos. The {[(4 + 3 + 2 + 1) x (1 + 10 + 1) x 100] x 2} formula given in the Manusmriti and most certainly elsewhere as well look just perfect.

Also as Pranav ji pointed out, the cosmic interpretation is completely aligned with the spiritual and socio-political interpretation. During Satya Yuga, the solar system is closer to Vishnunabhi and hence one is closer to God. In other eras, one distances from God, just as the solar system distances itself from Vishnunabhi in its orbit around it.

I find it great that you are proposing we explore many other possibilities, but I wouldn't really know how to do the math for it. :)
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by svinayak »

If one understand jyothish knowledge it means the Ancient Indian Rishis were in the know of an astronomic period/cycle longer than one year (non-planetary).
The 108 number is derived from this Precession rotation. It takes 72 years for 1 degree movement.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

RamaY wrote:RajeshAji

That brings another thought. Who/what was the polar star mentioned in Manusmriti?

Perhaps by the time Dhruva became the polar start (After Pragjyotisha/Tuba) the equinox earth was more accurately measured to be 26,000 years?

If we were to plot various Manus and see if they represent a star/star-group and see how they coincide with solar/lunar years, we may be able to calculate backwards.

In sanskritam one meaning of Yajnas is Year. Yajna is following the year thru various seasons and planning/conducting ones life according to that cycle.

Another thought is if devatas have 1 year = 1 day, that might indicate the Indics who lived in polar regions (earlier the Uurthva lokas are limited to devatas - that is northern skys). And sage Viswamitra found southern hemisphere (or mapped southern hemisphere). This is indicated in Trisanku swarga story where Viswamitra made an alternative creation.
RamaY ji,

I am not really good at this, but let me see if I understand.

At places it is written that
71 Chaturyuga = 1 Manvantara
14 Manvantara = 1 Kalpa = 1 Brahma Day (daylight only)
2 Kalpas = 1 Brahma Day

If we assume that we are dealing with solar years and not daiva years (solar year x 360)

1 Manvantara = 12,000 x 71 = 852,000 years
1 Brahma Day = 23,856,000 years

If one wishes to calculate according to daiva years, one would have to multiply by 360.

Now I can either imagine that 1 Manvantara represents some longer period/cycle. If we were to multiply the Manvantara by a factor of 360 to make it into godly years,

we get Godly Manvantara = 306,720,000 years.

Now a single rotation of the Sun around the center of the galaxy takes around 250 million years. It could be that the Godly Manvantara refers to that cycle.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Acharya garu,

thanks.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Prem »

Any pointer to what is considered VishnuNabhi/Tunniee? Brahma comes out of Nabhi to construct the universe by spinning motion, very similar to the Black Hole in the middle of galaxies. Other strange conicident is Khalsa was created in 1699 and its a common "myth" In Punjab that Kalyug started with the advent of of Islam and it peaked with the arrival of Babar in india.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

As an aid

By Robertino Solàrion
Introduction to Galactic Maths
The Hindus have a cycle called the "100 Years of Brahma". It lasts for a whopping 311,040,000,000,000 (311.04 trillion) Earth Years, after which time the Universe itself dies and is reborn as a totally new Creation. In the mathematics developed here one "Galactic Night or Day" would equal 311,040 Earth Years (or the equivalent of 12 Galactic Hours of 25,920 years each)! In fact, all of the Hindu Ages and what-not fit perfectly into this mathematical system, indicating a highly skilled mathematical civilization in æons long forgotten.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Lalmohan »

careful, soon there will be Out-of-Alpha-Centauri-Theory...
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Kaushal »

ihave pasted some excerpts from my book the origns

THE MAHĀYUGAS ARE MENTIONED IN THE MAHĀBHĀRATA

The notion of the Mahāyugas is expressed in the MBH in 2 separate places, the Vanaparva , chapter 18 and in the Harivamsa, and does not occur explicitly in the Saṃhitā epoch of the Veda. BG Siddhārth, the internationally known Astrophysicist and Director of the Birla planetorium in Hyderabad, feels that it appears in an encoded form in RV 10.11.117.8) It also occurs in the Ṡatapatha Brāhmaṇa , , the Bhāgavata Purāṇa, and the Markandeya Purāṇa. If we indulge in the hubris that only the Indians resorted to such large timescales we would be grievously wrong. Almost all the ancients exhibited this propensity, for what appeared to be valid reasons
The Harivamsa is an appendix to the MBH. However the number of years are different. In the Vanaparva, the division of the yugas is the usual one and the day of Brahma is also stated to be of 1000 yugas as in the Sūrya Siddhānta. But the number of years in the yugas is different from the one mentioned in the Sūrya Siddhānta.The number of years mentioned in each yuga.

THE POSTULATION OF THE DIVYABDA OR A DIVINE YEAR

If we treat these as divine years we get the same number of years as the Sūrya Siddhānta. However, there is no mention of divine years in the Vanaparva citation. It clearly mentions that the total length of years is much smaller than in the SūryaSiddhānta.
The beginning of the Kritayuga Is stated to take place when the Sun. Moon and Jupiter come in conjunction with the Puṣya asterism. This theory Is certainly different from that of the Sūrya Siddhānta. In the above theory, only the three planets are stated to be in conjunction. The measure of this Yuga will naturally be of smaller size. In the Sūrya Siddhānta the conjunction of all the seven planets in the Ashvini Nakṣatra marks the beginning of the yuga. Its measure will. therefore. be of much larger size. It is. therefore. evident that the theory of the Sūrya Siddhānta is a later development. The improvement in the old theory has been made only by making a slight addition. The concept of the divine years has been introduced in the system so that the period of each yuga becomes very large without tampering with the old system of division. To correspond with the new improvement, the conjunction of all the planets was made the basis of marking the beginning of the epoch. The division of the period of Brahma (1000 yugas) in the Manvantaras is also not met with in the above theory of the MBH which also seems to be of later origin.
In the Harivamsa Purāṇa, on the other hand, the yuga theory is exactly the same as given in the Sūrya Siddhānta. The divine year is defined first as of 360.0 years . Then the verses of the MBH as given in the Vanaparva mentioned above are reproduced ,verbatim and one line is added stating that the above number of years tn a yuga (i.e. 12000) should be regarded as Dvine years Further. as in the Sūrya Siddhānta 71 Chaturyugas are stated to constitute a Manvantara and 14 Manvantaras are stated to constitute a Kalpa.48 Here we have a potential solution to 2 riddles ,
1.the riddle of the excessively large Chaturyugās which appear to be a later amplification, which in reality caused much misunderstanding and
2. the riddle of the date of the Sūrya Siddhānta.
This is one possible solution to the riddle of the Mahā Yugas. We admit we know of no valid reason to assign such large numbers to the Chaturyugas, but then this raises the spectre of how so many of the ancients could be wrong in enunciating the Divine year and assigning these large numbers.

I found this explanation in the book by Sudhi Kant Bhardwaj on the Sūrya Siddhānta
“The appearance of two distinct theories In the MBH and its appendix has brought us very near the solution of the riddle of the time of the Sūrya Siddhānta which has been puzzling the scholars throughout the ages. We can now definitely conclude that the Sūrya Siddhānta was written sometime between the period of the composition of the earliest part of the MBH and the period of the composition of its appendix. known as the Harivamsa Purāṇa




TABLE 3 COSMOLOGICAL TIME AS DEFINED BY THE ANCIENT INDIC
AN ALTERNATE RATIONALE
1 Brahma Lifetime = 100 Brahma Years = 3.1104 *1014 sidereal years
1 Brahma Year= 360 *8,640,000,000 = 3,110.4 *109 sidereal years
1 Brahma Day (day and night) = 2 Kalpa or 2 Aeons = 8,640,000,000. Sidereal years
1 Kalpa = 4,320,000,000 earthly years (Y) =14 Manus + 1Kritayuga = 1000 MY =14*71.4+.4 MahāYugas
We introduce the new definitions, which were in fact mentioned in the MBH VanaParva
Kaliyuga = = 1200 years (Y new) = 1 Yuga
1 MY = 10 KY
Dvāpara = = 2KY = 2400 Ynew
TretaYuga = 3KY = 3600 Ynew
Kritayuga =4 KY = 4800 Y new= 0.4 MY
1Manvantra (M) = 71 MY = 71*12000 Ynew = 852,000 Ynew (Age of Homo erectus)
Delay in creation = 47,400 divyabdas = 47400 (subtract this from the total as the time taken to furnish the apartment)
We will recapture the 360 factor to stay consistent with the cosmological time frames. This is consistent with the Harivamsa definition of a Brahma day.
1 Manu =( 1M +1 KritaYuga)* 360= (856,800 Ynew) * 360 = 308,448,000 Ynew
1 Kalpa = 14 Manus + 1KritaYuga *360= 1000 MY = 12,000,000 DY = 4.32 billion*Ynew
Y = Solar or tropical year
DY = 360 Y = divine year = Ynew
KY =12,000 = Kaliyuga
MY = 10 KY = Mahāyuga

a. Though there Is much controversy about the date of the MBH. yet the general consensus (?) is that the earliest part of the MBH was written in script that we use today ( as opposed to being composed) in the 4th century BCE and was complete in its present form, including its appendix before the beginning of the Christian era. This is the last downward limit of the MBH. We can push this limit backward but accepting the average period as mentoned above, we can fix the terminus ante quem date of the Sūrya Siddhānta approximately as 200 BCE. The other details mentioned In the Sūrya Siddhānta also correspond to the same period. The language, In particular resembles that of the epic period. The selection of the Anushtup metre also suggests It to be the product of the same period because the later astronomical works are generally in the Āryā metre.

A non-vedic view of the time span of a yuga is given by Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri, the guru of Paramahansa Yogananda. This is detailed in his book, The Holy Science. According to this view, one complete yuga cycle is equal to one complete "precession of the equinox", a period of approximately 24,000 years. The ascending (Utsarpiṇī ) phase consists of a 1200 year Kali, 2400 year Dvāpara, 3600 year Treta and 4800 year Krita (Satya) yuga. The descending (Avasarpiṇī) phase reverses this order, thus both ascending and descending phases equal 24,000 years. According to calculations given in the book, the most recent yuga change was in 1699, when the Earth passed from the Dvāpara Yuga to Treta Yuga. We are in an ascending spiral right now, and will pass into the Satya Yuga in 5299 CE. According to the book, the motion of the stars moving across the sky (a.k.a.precession) is the observable part of the Sun's motion around another star. The quality of human intellect depends on the distance of the Sun and Earth from a certain point in space known as the Grand Center, Magnetic Center or Vishṇunābhi. The closer the Sun is to it, the more subtle energy the Solar System receives, and the greater is the level of human spiritual and overall development. As the Sun moves around its companion star, it brings us closer to or drives us farther away from Vishṇunābi, resulting in the rising and falling ages here on Earth.

Yukteswar tells us that the calendars of the higher ages were based on the Yugas, with each era named after its Yuga. Hence, the year 3000 BCE was known as descending Dvāpara 102 (because the last descending Dvāpara yuga began 102 years earlier in 3101 BCE). He stated that this method was used up until the recent Dark Ages, when knowledge of the connection with the yugas and the precession cycle was lost; "The mistake crept into the almanacs for the first time during the reign of Raja Parikshit, just after the completion of the last descending Dvāpara Yuga. At that time Mahāraja Yudhisthira, noticing the appearance of the dark Kali Yuga, made over his throne to his grandson, the said Raja Parikshit. Mahāraja Yudhisthira, together with all the wise men of his court, retired to the Himalaya Mountains... thus there was no one who could understand the principle of correctly calculating the ages of the several Yugas". Thus, Yukteswar assumed that Raja Parikshit was not trained in any vedic principles even though he alone ruled the world many year. Thus, he interpreted that Yugas are not calculated correctly. Consequently, he gave the theory that when the Dvāpara was over and the Kali era began no one knew enough to restart the calendar count. They knew they were in a Kali Yuga (which is why the old Hindu calendar now begins with K.Y.) but the beginning of this calendar (which in 2011 stands at 5112) can still be traced to 3101 BCE, (3101+2011=5112) the start of the last descending Dvāpara Yuga. To this day there is still much confusion why the Kali era starts at this date or what the correct length of the Yugas should be. Yukteswar suggests that a return to basing the Yuga calendar on the motion of the equinox would be a positive step.”

InferrIng from the occurrence of the word Rākṣasālaya. we have suggested above that the Sūrya Slddhanta was written after the Rāmāyaṇa. Some scholars put the date of the likhita or scriptural version of the Rāmāyaṇa as 100 BCE In this perspective. to fix the date of the Sūrya Siddhānta as 200 BCE poses some difficulty. But 100 BCE is the terminus ante quem of Rāmāyaṇa beyond which it cannot be carried downward. The upper limit should be much earlier. The MBH contains the Rāmopākhyāna. the narration of which exactly agrees with that of the Rāmāyaṇa story. We therefore strongly believe that the genuine part of the Rāmāyaṇa must have been composed orally in metre prior to the MBH.”

TABLE 4 A DAY IN BRAHMA’S LIFE OF 1 KALPA


1 Kalpa = 4,320,000,000 earthly years (Y) =14 Manus + 1Kritayuga = 1000 MY =14*71.4+.4 Mahāyugas
Kaliyuga = 432,000 Y = 1KY = 1200 divine years (DY) = 1 Yuga
1 DY = 360 Y
Dvāpara = 864,000 Y = 2KY = 2400 DY
TretaYuga = 1,296,000 Y = 3KY = 3600 DY
Kritayuga = 1,728,000 Y =4 KY = 4800 DY = 0.4 MY =.4/71.4 = 5.6022408964e-3
Mahāyuga (MY) = 4,320,000 earthly years = 10 KY = 12000 DY aka Chaturyuga
1Manvantra (M) = 71 MY = 306.72 million years
Delay in creation = 47,400 divyabdas = 47400*360 = 1,706,4000 civil years (subtract this from the total as the time taken to furnish the apartment)
1 Manu = 1M + 1 Krita or Satya Yuga = 308.448 million years = 856,800 DY
1 Kalpa = 14 Manus + 1KritaYuga = 14*71.4 +.4 = 1000 MY = 12,000,000 DY = 4.32 billion
Y = Solar or tropical year
DY = 360 Y = divine year
KY = 432,000 = Kaliyuga
MY = 10 KY = Mahāyuga

WHAT WERE THE BASIC FEATURES OF THE VEDIC CALENDAR (4000 BCE) – INFLUENCED BY MONSOON

The Vedic Calendar was a lunisolar calendar . It comprised of 3 types of years; Solar Year - a year of 360 civil days (12 māsa with 30 days each), civil year and a Lunar year. We quote Prof K D Abhyankar who gives a very cogent rationale for the subsequent steps that the Indics took “The year or the Samvatsara is the most important constituent, because it controls the seasonal growth of crops and other vegetation that are so important for human survival. It is, therefore, necessary to determine the length of the year. It was discovered quite early that the seasons are related to the position of the Sun in the sky at noon, which in turn is related to the northward and southward motion of the rising Sun on the eastern horizon. Such observations can be easily made with the help of a stick called a Yupa. Hence the two halves of the year namely the Uttarāyana and the Dakṣiṇāyana, became the two basic divisions of the year very early in history. In India, the beginning of Uttarāyana has used for starting the year from remote antiquity as is from the Vedāṅga Jyotiṣa calendar and Aitareya Brāhmaṇa 18.18 and 18.22, where it is stated that on Viṣuvadina, which occurred in the middle of the year, the Sun reached its maximum altitude, that indicated the beginning of Dakṣiṇāyana. In fact, this was the practice of the ancient civilizations. For example, the Gregorian calendar, which begins the year only ten days after the winter solstice, is a relic of this ancient practice.
TABLE 5 HOW OLD IS THE SOLAR SYSTEM

As of Vaiṡākhā pratipada of 2009 CE, May 1 we are in the second quarter of Brahma day (द्वितिय परार्थ ), called Shweta Varāha Kalpa, seventh Manvantaras named Vaivasvata and entered into the first quarter of the 28th Kaliyuga. Already 5110 years of this 28th KY have passed. so the time elapsed in this Kalpa is 6 Manus =1,850,688,000 Y = [6*(306,420,000+1,728,000)] = 6 Manus (includes 6 Jala pralayas or sandhis, periods between Mānvantāras) And 27 MY = 116,640,000 Y (27 * 4,320,000)=27/71.4M = 0.3781512605 M
Add 1 Jala Pralaya(depending on origin of cycle) = 1,728,000 Y or 1 Krita Yuga
And 28th (Krta+Treta +Dvāpara) = 3,888,000 Y (9*432,000) =0.9 MY =.9/71.4 = 0.012605042M
5110 Y of Kaliyuga = 5110 Y = 5110/4,320,000 MY = 1.1828703704 (10*-3) MY
the current year 2010 CE = 1,850,688,000 + 116,640,00 +1,728,000 + 3,888,000 + 5111 =
1 ,972,949,111 Y or Solar years or 1.972949111 Billion years
= 426+27+(.4*7) + .9 +.001182703704 = 456.701182703704 MahāYugas

Deducting 47,400*360 = 17,064,000, the time spent in creation gives 1,955,885,111
To put this in perspective, if we look at a galaxy 2 billion light years away (a unit of distance) we would be looking at an object in time contemporaneous with the age of ½ a Brahma day or the birthday of our Solar system. It is incredible that the Indic ancients were able to fathom such cosmological time frames merely by the use of Observational Astronomy, using just his naked eye, especially when it is recalled that the Romans had no name for a number greater than a thousand, and the state of Tennessee passed a law saying that the value of PI should be legislated to be 3, as late as the 2nd half of the nineteenth century

KNOWLEDGE OF RATE OF PRECESSION DURING ERA OF RV

Before demonstrating the unmistakable fact of the precession inherent in the cosmological time cycles, it would be of interest to the reader to see how the Western translators of the Sūrya Siddhānta made the choice to take the line of least resistance by assuming that the Indics were ignorant of the distinction between Sidereal and Tropical years and of the effects of the Precession:

To make such a division accurate, the year ought to be tropical, and not the sidereal; but the author of the Sūrya‐Siddhānta has not yet begun to take into account the precession…The earliest Hindu astronomers were ignorant of, or ignored, the periodical motion of the equinoxes…
Again this opinion is in error. If Burgess and Whitney were not so blinded by hubris they might have been able to improve their knowledge by careful study of the Sūrya‐Siddhanta. The precession is clearly derived from the cosmological time cycles as shown below. The Chaturyuga of 4,320,000 years is the unit of reference for determining the rate of precession used in the construction of the Hindu cosmological time cycles.
The Indics of that era postulated a constant rate of precession equal to 50″.4 = 0°.014 = ⁷⁄₅₀₀ degrees of precession per sidereal year. This is the same as one degree of precession in 71³⁄₇ = 71.42857 sidereal years. This compares very favorably with the modern value of precession determined by Al Tusi which is 71.6 years. This correlates to the cosmological time cycles as follows: One manu = 71.4 MY (Mahāyuga = Chaturyuga)
¹⁄₁₄th of an introductory dawn = 0.02857 X Chaturyuga
¹⁄₁₄th kalpa = 71.42857 X Chaturyuga
In the interval of ¹⁄₁₄th kalpa there are:
(71³⁄₇) × 4,320,000 × 0°.014 = 4,320,000 degrees of precession = 12,000 precessional years
From table one we see that a period of one Chaturyuga (or 1 MY) is 4,320,000 years and is equivalent to 12,000 divine years. Is it just a happy coincidence that the Cosmological Time Cycles agree with the precession? Burgess and Whitney would probably think so.

It appears that the same number (71.4 manavantras) and 71 3/7 cannot be a coincidence
Other related values of interest are:

1 precessional year (Great Precessional Cycle) = 25, 714²⁄₇ sidereal years
7 precessional years = 180,000 sidereal years
7 × 18 (126) cycles of the 3rd mean motion of the Sun
7 × 24 (168) precessional years
1 Chaturyuga = 168,000 precessional years
1 kalpa = (4,320,000 ÷ 168) × 0°.014 = 360°
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by svinayak »

RajeshA wrote:Pranav ji,

very true. However Walter Cruttenden from Binary Research Institute still happens to give the Greeks most of the credit, even though he speaks about the much more advanced concepts of Vishnunabhi of the Hindus, as well as a correct duration of the Great Year - 24,000 solar years - the Yuga Cycle.

Published on Jul 16, 2009
By Walter Cruttenden
Response to The Precession Dialogues - BAUT Forum post

Image

Publication Date: September 22, 2005
Author: Walter Cruttenden
Lost Star of Myth And Time

There is a video to the book


There is also a review of the book here

By K. Kris Hirst, About.com Guide
Lost Star of Myth and Time: Dreaming of the World's Greater Purpose

Summary: The Solar System has a binary star, and both move around the Vishnunabhi, a point in space. This causes the "wobbling" effect which leads to the precession of the equinoxes. The whole precessions is 24,000 years long. In the original interpretation, as per Sri Yukteswar Giri, the sum of the yuga durations was the half-arc. Both ascending and descending arcs would make a whole Yuga Cycle. All very Indic system of time reckoning.

Thus we have given the world an astronomical period longer than the solar year! - the 24,000 Year Yuga-Cycle!

Binary Research Institute is providing the calculations.
Kaushal
Can you comment on this author. He seems to get new info about yuga durations

He does not want to give credit to the SSV about this contribution
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Kaushal ji,

thanks a lot for bringing in some expert opinion on the subject. Keep it coming'!

I am linking your book here. Hope it is okay with you!

Image

Publication Date: May 27, 2010
By Kosla Vepa
Astronomical Dating of Events & Select Vignettes from Indian History Part I
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Dating of Mahabharata

Image

Publication Date: First Edition (1989) Second Edition (2004)
Author Dr P.V. Vartak: [Google Site]
The Scientific Dating of the Mahabharat War [Download]

Verdict: October 16, 5561 BCE.


Image

Publication Date: July 12, 2011
Author: Nilesh Nilkanth Oak
When Did The Mahabharata War Happen? : The Mystery of Arundhati

Videos to the above


Verdict: October 16, 5561 BCE.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by member_20317 »

RajeshA ji is that dating by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak or is it by Vartak ji?

http://nileshoak.wordpress.com/

the Blog has a night sky time lapse for Arundhati and even for the North pole
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

ravi_g wrote:RajeshA ji is that dating by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak or is it by Vartak ji?
It was given by Dr. P.V. Vartak but was confirmed by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak. One reviewer on Amazon said, that even though N.N. Oak confirmed the date, he showed that Vartak had used some false assumption!

I haven't read the books!
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Dating of Ramayana

Image

Publication Date: First Edition (June 12, 1999)
Author Dr P.V. Vartak: [Google Site]
The Scientific Dating of the Mahabharat War [Download]

Verdict: 7600 B.C.E.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by member_20317 »

RajeshA wrote:
ravi_g wrote:RajeshA ji is that dating by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak or is it by Vartak ji?
It was given by Dr. P.V. Vartak but was confirmed by Nilesh Nilkanth Oak. One reviewer on Amazon said, that even though N.N. Oak confirmed the date, he showed that Vartak had used some false assumption!

I haven't read the books!

I have not read any of these books either.

But then open source info on work done by Vartak ji seems to be based on more then one observations. And that would mean the gent/lady on amazon is a super man.

But personally I think Oak ji has a much better chance of taking on criticism. One simple observation.

Only thing that needs to be seen is when did the Indians first learn of techniques that can reverse calculate the night sky. What is required in mathematical understanding to do that? and if the Indians ever knew any such?
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Virendra »

For Mahabharata war, I think there is more convergence on 3000-3100 BC lately.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

The more one looks around, the more one is convinced that there is a deliberate practice among the Western writers to suppress the contributions of the Indian Civilization to fields like Mathematics and Astronomy. Especially in these two fields, West does not seem to get over the fear of being eclipsed by the Indics as the foremost Civilization. This phenomenon needs a name.

Obviously they have a subconscious inferiority complex, which has manifested into a Indophobia - fear of the Indian Civilization.
A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος, Phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is, when used in the context of clinical psychology, a type of anxiety disorder, usually defined as a persistent fear of an object or situation in which the sufferer commits to great lengths in avoiding, typically disproportional to the actual danger posed, often being recognized as irrational. In the event the phobia cannot be avoided entirely the sufferer will endure the situation or object with marked distress and significant interference in social or occupational activities. {AIT}
An inferiority complex, often used to mean low self-esteem, is a feeling of intense insecurity, inferiority or of not measuring up. An inferiority complex can be seen in the negative or "useless" reactions to problems in life. These reactions are useless because they do not solve the problem at hand, but only serve to guard one's self-esteem by avoiding the task {Acknowledging Indian Contributions} or by placing the blame for the failure outside of the individual's control. Although the inferiority complex may be seen as comparing individuals or groups as one being superior to another, it more closely describes how one deals with a fear of failure.
Racism is basically a mask to show Western inferiority complex.

So just like we have AIT-Nazis who trivialize Indian antiquity, we need a name for those Western writers and academicians who deliberately and completely ignore Indian contributions!

Image

Publication Date: Fourth Edition (June 1, 2004)
Authors A.E. Roy, D. Clarke
Astronomy: Principles and Practice
We must remember, however, that for more than nine-tenths of the last five thousand years of our study of the heavens, we have had to rely on the unaided eye. The Mediterranean people who set the constellations in the sky, the Babylonians, Egyptians and Greeks, the Arabian astronomers who flourished during the Dark Ages of Post-Roman Europe, the Chinese, the Mayan and other early American astronomers, all built their theories of the Universe on naked eye observations.
The Indians are nowhere to be found in this list of astronomically-empowered peoples.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by ramana »

Weasels?

3. a cunning, sneaky person.

verb...

6. to evade an obligation, duty, or the like; renege (often followed by out ): That's one invitation I'd like to weasel out of.
7. to use weasel words; be ambiguous; mislead: Upon cross-examination the witness began to weasel.

Weasels: Wastern scholars who want to weasel out of acknowledging Indian contributions to civilization.
Eg. Michael Witzel.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by shiv »

India-blind
India challenged
Indo-agnosia
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Murugan »

Does anybody know how boson became higgs boson?
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

It is perhaps helpful to look at how other peoples were doing their astronomy in the ancient ages.

Babylonian astronomy

An Asger Aaboe claims that Indians took astronomy from the Babylonians, just like all other people.
Nevertheless, the surviving fragments show that, according to the historian A. Aaboe, Babylonian astronomy was "the first and highly successful attempt at giving a refined mathematical description of astronomical phenomena" and that "all subsequent varieties of scientific astronomy, in the Hellenistic world, in India, in Islam, and in the West—if not indeed all subsequent endeavour in the exact sciences—depend upon Babylonian astronomy in decisive and fundamental ways."
He seems to be an authority on old astronomy in Babylon and Greece.

Image

Publication Date: July 1, 2001
Author: Asger Aaboe
Episodes from the Early History of Astronomy
Phenomena in the heavens are of great importance to many, and much of the lore of astronomy and astrology dates back to the earliest days of civilisation. The astronomy of the ancients is thus of interest not only as history but also as the basis for much of what is known or believed about the heavens today. This book discusses important topics in Babylonian and Greek astronomy.
Basically Astronomical Dating is being used to date events from that time. In a criticism of the work of another writer, wikipedia says:
Fomenko's studies ignore the abundance of dated astronomical records in cuneiform texts from Mesopotamia. Among these texts is a series of astronomical diaries, which records precise astronomical observations of the Moon and planets, often dated in terms of the reigns of known historical figures extending back to the 6th century BCE. Astronomical retrocalculations for all these moving objects allow us to date these observations, and consequently the rulers' reigns, to within a single day. The observations are sufficiently redundant that only a small portion of them are sufficient to date a text to a unique year in the period 750 BCE to 100 CE. The dates obtained agree with the accepted chronology. In addition, F. R. Stephenson has demonstrated through a systematic study of a large number of Babylonian, Ancient and Medieval European, and Chinese records of eclipse observations that they can be dated consistently with conventional chronology at least as far back as 600 BCE. In contrast to Fomenko's missing centuries, Stephenson's studies of eclipse observations find an accumulated uncertainty in the timing of the rotation of the earth of 420 seconds at 400 BCE, and only 80 seconds at 1000 CE.
Here is another paper on retrocalculating old astronomical data.
It is here that astronomical retrocalculations, properly employed, can be a powerful tool in reconstructing the fundamental benchmarks of ancient chronology. In order to obtain reliable retrocalculations, it is necessary to have accurate celestial observations from a given place and time together with the means to compute the positions of the respective celestial bodies at specific times and longitudes.
In principle it should be possible to apply the same scientific methodology to more ancient times. As it turns out, there are hundreds of astronomical diaries from ancient Babylon which have been recovered (over 1200, in fact), some of which include detailed astronomical observations that provide an accurate map of how the skies looked during that period. Typically these diaries record the locations of the sun, moon, and respective planets against the celestial backdrop (the so-called normal stars along the ecliptic) over a period of six months or so.
All other records are valid astronomical data and are used for dating. No big controversy! So why are India's astronomical records not being used in dating?
Last edited by RajeshA on 09 Jul 2012 21:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

shiv wrote:India-blind
shiv saar,

I think 'India-Blindness' is an apt term. So why did they become blind? Too bright a glare from India? :wink:
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by shiv »

RajeshA wrote: All other records are valid astronomical data and are used for dating. No big controversy! So why are India's astronomical records not being used in dating?
Because they were all "discovered" by western scholars. Except Sanskrit, for reasons i give below

Egyptian hieroglyphs were translated from old Greek by the chance finding of the bilingual Rosetta stone. "Old Persian ( a descendant of Sanskrit), Elamite and Baylobian Cuneiform were translated from the tri-lingual Behistun inscriptions using knowledge of Sanskrit.

Sanskrit was never studied for its knowledge of astronomy, math or its philosophy. It was always studied by "philologists" (linguists) to try and figure out the connections between India European languages. Only Indians can reveal and spread ancient Sanskrit knowledge. The west cannot do it because they are ignorant. they know only what they know.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by shiv »

RajeshA wrote:
shiv wrote:India-blind
shiv saar,

I think 'India-Blindness' is an apt term. So why did they become blind? Too bright a glare from India? :wink:
Too true, but see my reply above. Same reason. Babylonian and Egyptian are western discoveries. They are their babies. Their science libraries are full of them. Their arts college language depts have all the Sanskrit and for western linguists astronomy and maths are like pearls before swine.

For Indians sanskrit is everything. Science, art, language you name it. For us Sanskrit is a precious tool - like a programming language/library.

For the West it was a mystery and an irritating and humiliating mystery.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

shiv wrote:Same reason. Babylonian and Egyptian are western discoveries. They are their babies. Their science libraries are full of them.

....

For the West it was a mystery and an irritating and humiliating mystery.
shiv saar,

I strongly suspect that another reason is simply because they are really DEAD civilizations. India is not. They don't pose any live challenge. India does.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by lakshmikanth »

Murugan wrote:Does anybody know how boson became higgs boson?

Going OT here:
Bosons are certain category of particles in statistical physics (of Quantum mechanical kinds). Bosons have integer spin and more than one Bosons can occupy the same space at the same time. Bosons are usually fundamental force particles: Photons for electromagntism. W and Z bosons for strong/weak nuclear force (the part of the theory that earned Salam his Nobel).

Higgs Boson is a fundamental particle which represents a force field around us, like an ocean. Particles with mass interact with the Higgs Boson just like any small object inside the ocean would interact with the surrounding water and the interaction results in the particle obtaining mass, the strength of the interaction determining the mass of the particle. Higgs was the guy who proposed this mechanism, including the spin statistics of the particle which categorized it as a Boson, hence the name Higgs Boson.

Added later: Going by Nobel "standards" (if it has one) Sathyendra Nath Bose deserves not just one, but multiple Nobels, but I dont want to tarnish the great man's name by saying that he deserves an award that is nothing more than a weapon of propaganda and thereby giving more power to people who hold the keys to the weapon.

Added even later: Particles that have half spin follow Fermi-Dirac statistics, which says the more than one Fermion cannot occupy the same space at the same time (basically cannot have the same Quantum state at the same time). This is the basis of chemistry and the reason why there is so much beauty in the organic (and inorganic) world.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by SaiK »

Rajesh, the verdict you gave from dr. Vartak's reference however possible it may sound does not correspond to the myth [Indian]. Ramayana should date past Krishna and Parasuram., unless these two stories were so narrow in the timeline band.

Still, if one goes by flooding myth, and corresponds to ice-age, then the myth is at least 10000 year old at the minimum for Krishna. I think we are looking for the small span of 50-100 years from these stories, and mapping to last ice-age meltdown estimates... [hopefully correct].

just a myth question to match up with flow of mythical events for Ramayan?.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Saik ji,

Please do read Dr. Vartak's "The Scientific Dating of Ramayana and The Vedas". He goes detailed into the relative chronology of Ramayana viz-a-viz Mahabharata.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Kaushal »

At this time i am not sufficiently conversant with astrophysics, to be able to reply to your question. i got into the whole subject of Astronomy because knowledge of jyotish is demanded of every candidate who wishes to read and undertand the Veda. Plus i wanted to understand the limits of astronomical dating. one reason i wrote the book, is that everybody who reads the book wil be as convinced as i am that astronomical dating works very well, i might mention that throughout the book I have taken the position. Alas it has not turned out that way . For a variety of reasons that i do not fully understand, the book is simply not selling very well.
subsequently i learned that Pierre Duhem, the eminent french astronomer historian, and arguably the most well known Historian of astronomy in the modern era, took a position similar to mine . i will paraphrase him. Duhem classifies models into 2 categories one in which the models can be regarded as convenient fictions devised by mathematicians to aid in making calculations, and the second which aims to describe the fundamental nature of the physical laws needed to describe the motions of celestial bodies. To get into the distinction between these two categories is an interesting and significant exercise, but the point I wished to make is that the Indic did not negate the possibility of there being ontological principles that need to be .enunciated simply because he had a mathematical model that works. In that respect he was already showing sufficient sophistication in recognizing the distinction between a solution satisfying one or more necessary conditions to one which has to satisfy both necessary and sufficient conditions.
The short answer to your question is that i did not wish to get into the physics of the problem, because that would muddy the issue considerably. Whatever the physics of the problem, my remarks are valid and were primarily directed towards one basic fact.
-that the ancient indic astronomer was a highly competent naked eye astronomer with
a long tradition of observations.that he was highly sophisticated in his understandings of the motion of the sky.
- That the occident is committing a grievous mistake in not according him the recognition that he deserves and thereby are forced into an account of the history which clearly does not hang together and fg
-But my saddest revelation came when i realized that the Indic of today is a pale shadow of his former self. i do not say this because of the lack of support for my book. it is far more deeper indictment of the human condition in India. let me give an example. No indian has come forward to say that the manner of intercalating months to give us the luni solar calendar indicates the mark of genius of high order. I suspect that the indic has not said this because he could not find a
a single occidental who would say this. So he is scared shitless to say what is staring us in the face, because he does not have the courage of his convictions and stand up to the white man, that he the indic is proud of this achievement, an achievement that escaped the Hebrew people, the Chinese and the Babylonians.

In the end , the Indics lost the battle for supremacy in the Sciences to the Europeans in the Seventeenth century of the common era but at the same time the Indic can take comfort in the fact that the ancient Indic has left behind a huge cornucopia of treasures and
a legacy of thinking rationally about problems and habits of thought that will endure long after the Pyramids decay into dust. This is a far cry from what your most sympathetic observer would ever admit.

THE LEGACY OF THE ANCIENT HINDU
He has taught us how to count,
How to convert an angular measure into a linear one,
How to use analysis in the service of mankind,
How to systematically solve a problem so that each step could be executed precisely as he would have wanted it implemented even after the lapse of a thousand years, the forerunner of a computer code that is readily interpreted.
He taught us that Etymology should be part and parcel of an dictionary.
He taught us the science of semantics and that the frequencies of the sounds that we make with our voice are of significance as we learn to communicate in evermore sophisticated ways.
And he reduced the study of language to a set of grammatical rules, so that we need not place the words in any particular order, making it particularly suitable for parsing a sentence by a computer.
Most importantly he cautioned us not to get too cocky with our mathematical models and assume they were divinely inspired in contradistinction to the Greeks and their successors , and by implication that we should be ready to discard our models once their usefulness had worn of .






Acharya wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Pranav ji,

very true. However Walter Cruttenden from Binary Research Institute still happens to give the Greeks most of the credit, even though he speaks about the much more advanced concepts of Vishnunabhi of the Hindus, as well as a correct duration of the Great Year - 24,000 solar years - the Yuga Cycle.

Published on Jul 16, 2009
By Walter Cruttenden
Response to The Precession Dialogues - BAUT Forum post

Image

Publication Date: September 22, 2005
Author: Walter Cruttenden
Lost Star of Myth And Time

There is a video to the book


There is also a review of the book here

By K. Kris Hirst, About.com Guide
Lost Star of Myth and Time: Dreaming of the World's Greater Purpose

Summary: The Solar System has a binary star, and both move around the Vishnunabhi, a point in space. This causes the "wobbling" effect which leads to the precession of the equinoxes. The whole precessions is 24,000 years long. In the original interpretation, as per Sri Yukteswar Giri, the sum of the yuga durations was the half-arc. Both ascending and descending arcs would make a whole Yuga Cycle. All very Indic system of time reckoning.

Thus we have given the world an astronomical period longer than the solar year! - the 24,000 Year Yuga-Cycle!

Binary Research Institute is providing the calculations.
Kaushal
Can you comment on this author. He seems to get new info about yuga durations

He does not want to give credit to the SSV about this contribution
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by RajeshA »

Kaushal ji,

I am sure that in due time, the realization would upon the Indians that he is heir to the most ancient and brilliant civilization, and that your book too belongs in his shelf of Indian genius! The sales will pick up! The revolution will slowly build up!
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Prem »

Can this new discover Bose-on God particle be the same as "kan kan me Bhagwan": Boson= Tanamatras?
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Yogi_G »

The Swastika.

Wondering if the Swastika is an excellent example of Indic symbols spread across the world due to OIT. Earliest known use is in India and it was prevalent in Africa, Western Europe and even amongst the red Indians.
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Post by Murugan »

Sanauli, Tehsil Barot, District Baghpat - Uttar Prades UP - Harappan Site Excavation

http://asi.nic.in/asi_exca_2007_sanauli.asp
Sanauli, tehsil Barot, district Baghpat, U.P. is under excavation by the ASI since September 2005. The site was a chance discovery while locals undertook levelling operation for agricultural purposes. Subsequently, ASI identified the site as a prominent cemetery site of late Harappan period (early 2nd millennium B.C.).


The excavations have so far brought to light 125 burials all in north-south orientation; most of them are primary burials. Evidence for secondary and multiple burials have also been noted. In some burials, animal’s bones are also found next to the human bones. The burial goods consisted of vases (often placed near the head, and in odd numbers, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, etc.), bowls, dish-on-stand (mostly placed below the hip), antenna swords and sheath of copper, TC figurines, etc. A good number of personal jewellery in the form of gold and copper bangles, beads of semi-precious stones (two necklaces of long barrel shape) and steatite, etc. are also found. The antenna swords from these burials have a striking resemblance with that of the copper hoards specimens.


Remains of a brick wall (50 X 50 X 24 cm) along with two dish-on-stands and a flat copper container (violin shaped) with nearly 35 arrow-head shaped copper objects placed in rows are among the important finds. Similar to the copper container, another symbolic burial yielded a careful arrangement of steatite beads in the shape of violin with a copper sheath placed across. These specimens may represent actual human beings.
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