Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 16 Jun 2016 06:55

Because the Gripen isn't cheap either. They were aiming for a $33 Million purchase of F-16 that was denied by the US and for that much you are pretty much looking at used western gear.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 16 Jun 2016 07:06

brar_w wrote:Because the Gripen isn't cheap either. They were aiming for a $33 Million purchase of F-16 that was denied by the US and for that much you are pretty much looking at used western gear.

At $33 Million they can have a Pakistan specific export model of Tejas, no? (The one without flaps, ailerons and elevators. We can negotiate on the need of an engine from Kirloskar or Cummins)

Pakistan has a budget for 08, $33 million fighter and it wants the best of the best of the best.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jun 2016 07:23

deejay wrote:
At $33 Million they can have a Pakistan specific export model of Tejas, no? (The one without flaps, ailerons and elevators. We can negotiate on the need of an engine from Kirloskar or Cummins)

Ejection seats are expensive and reduce employment in Houri heaven. They could be made an add-on,

member_27991 · Post by **member_27991** » 16 Jun 2016 07:34

Kartik wrote:Pakistan Navy inducts new truck mounted anti ship missile named "Zarb"

The Pakistan Navy ... Zarb is being locally produced (under license or otherwise).

their fascination with 'Zarb' continues

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Jun 2016 08:25

Bad News for JF-17 Bundar from Burma

--read it all

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 17 Jun 2016 22:40

Kashi wrote:
brar_w wrote:Pakistan just got denied financing on the F-16, there is absolutely no way that they will get, or will be able to afford the F-35. The prospects of them operating a new western fighter aircraft (any) are pretty much ZERO. Their long term hope is probably the J-10 and some J-31's provided they can get Russian engine approval or provided China puts in a less capable local engine for export. Jordanian F-16's may be an option for them but realistically they would hardly have much capability left in them in terms of valuable life left to warrant even a half decent upgrade. One could even argue that those would probably come it at a higher cost, with lower quality than buying new built J-10's if indeed those are offered to them.
They could go for Gripen. Not sure why they haven't gone down that route.

Sweden barred the export of "offensive" weapons to Pakistan. the Pukes did try to lobby the Swedes for Gripen sales but apart from early talks, it never went anywhere. the Pukes were reportedly very impressed by the Gripen C, and were supposedly looking to emulate their clean cockpit layout on the JF-17.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 17 Jun 2016 23:09

The eyerie was sold to pakis, other than money and massa's engine there is no reason Gripen can't find its way into fizzle-ya

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 17 Jun 2016 23:25

I don't see any new non Chinese aircraft making its way into the fizzleya. They have a habit of poaching museum pieces and the next one in line after the Mirage3/5 (&C130&T37) would be the F16.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 17 Jun 2016 23:31

Unlike france unkil controls all f-16's old or new. Their munnas jordan or turky will not and cannot do anything against their wishes. I am surprized pakis are not trying out J-10B's.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 17 Jun 2016 23:47

Khan was okay with the transfer of last batch of 13? ADF F16 of the RJAF, okay with the "gifting"

of Turdogan's T37's, okay with C130 from down under and AH1Fs for the Uniformed Jehadis from Jordan again.
And remember that Khan was not unwilling to sell new F16s, but only de-subsidised the sale.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 18 Jun 2016 01:55

Bheeshma wrote:The eyerie was sold to pakis, other than money and massa's engine there is no reason Gripen can't find its way into fizzle-ya

Erieye was not considered offensive.

Sweden won't sell Gripen jets to Pakistan

ISLAMABAD --- In a setback to Pakistan’s efforts to get new generation Swedish-made Gripen fighter planes, Stockholm has said that it will not sell any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Islamabad.

“There is no question of selling them weapons or anything directly related to weapons,” Swedish Foreign Minister Laila Freivalds said after her talks with visiting Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in Stockholm yesterday.

Before his talks with Freivalds, Musharraf, who is currently on a tour of Scandinavian countries, said that Pakistan might be interested in purchasing JAS Gripen fighter planes from Sweden. “Pakistan is looking for a high-tech aircraft. Gripen is one of several alternatives,” he was quoted as saying by Swedish newswire TT.

Freivalds, however, said Sweden would not be considering the sale of any weapons or weapon-related equipment to Pakistan, media reports here said.

She also said the Swedish government has yet to decide whether to sell Erieye radars, which was sought to be purchased by Pakistan for its Air Force. She said a decision has to be made whether the radar came under the category of weapon. “We have yet to reach that stage,” she said.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has been looking for alternatives to acquire new generation aircraft to modernize its ageing fleet after US declined to sell old as well as new F-16 fighter planes.

Musharraf concluded his Sweden visit yesterday and went to Finland on a two-day trip.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 18 Jun 2016 01:57

No it was meant to predict earthquakes and detect people buried under debris..I remember the paki line when they stole funds from kashmir earthquake victims.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 18 Jun 2016 23:00

The reason why bakis keep begging the US for drones.

Their chinese drone clones end up doing this onlee.

"bakistani airfarce da DRON" .

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Jun 2016 04:32

Looks like the drone did soosai - bakistan's national sport.
Wonder what it was like in the control center, there mus have been a lot of AoAs, inne-ilahi rajoons hain ji!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Jun 2016 07:30

Pakistan's new nuke threat: Why India has to worry

Shanu · Post by **Shanu** » 19 Jun 2016 08:48

^^And what will India's response be to such a tactical nuclear strike. Haven't we clearly mentioned in our nuclear doctrine, that any nuclear attack on Indian army would be considered an attack on India and hence warrant a retaliation of nuclear nature.

Am no expert, but I don't believe the RAPE class will want to see their life and wealth evaporate just because they can protect some army units from falling in a conventional battle. And what about the $43 billion CPEC investments? Will the "tallel than mountain" friend want to see that go too, just in return of killing 1/2 Indian army divisions?

This is just the latest version of the mind games that comes from the Paki elite. They want to cripple the Indian decision making and make sure that no Indian leader takes a decision of 'Cold Start' when the next 'situation' arises.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Jun 2016 10:16

Shanu wrote:^^And what will India's response be to such a tactical nuclear strike.

That is what I loved about that article. It is so clear. India's response is that "it should worry."

More seriously I detest such headlines and the article itself uses information that is several months to several years old and the only "recent" thing about the article is Modi met Ombaba in June. All in all a directionless mass of words.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 19 Jun 2016 12:28

Why should "India" "worry"? Who is "India" and will worrying help? Such are the standards of a leading national weekly. Ultimately i think the fault lies with poor standards of journalism colleges in the country, who have clearly never taught research to their students.

shiv wrote:
Shanu wrote:^^And what will India's response be to such a tactical nuclear strike.
That is what I loved about that article. It is so clear. India's response is that "it should worry."

More seriously I detest such headlines and the article itself uses information that is several months to several years old and the only "recent" thing about the article is Modi met Ombaba in June. All in all a directionless mass of words.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Jun 2016 16:12

Aditya G wrote:Why should "India" "worry"? Who is "India" and will worrying help? Such are the standards of a leading national weekly. Ultimately i think the fault lies with poor standards of journalism colleges in the country, who have clearly never taught research to their students.

Dead right. It sounds like Lutyens cocktail circuit talk "You know Modi might become PM. You should be worried". There is detachment from the real significance - just a stray thought like that itch one might feel inside one's shoes while driving.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Jun 2016 17:41

Just a comparision between India and Pakistan based on Google Earth imagery.

Pakistan is building NBC proof underground bunkers like crazy - I count upwards of a Dozen odd. They are preparing for Armageddon with Indian 20-200 kiloton nukes falling on their mil facilities and cities.

What do we see on the Indian side hain ji?
ONE NBC bunker in 7 RCR, and that's about it !
Oh yes! We see the IA, IAF preparing for Cold start in an NBC compromised environment. Don't worry about the IN, they're NBC proof to begin with mostly.

Has anyone thought why this is so?
Why is the only question that the western nuke scientists ask Indians goes like this - "what do you guys plan to do if a sub-kiloton / dirty nuke falls on India / Indian military column."
Why is India Not building NBC underground bunkers hain ji? Is india short of funds?

The realiy lies close to what the western nuclear scientists are asking - Pakistanis are preparing for 200KT indian bums, India is only worried about subkiloton fizzles, and India will fight it out in an NBC environment.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Jun 2016 05:29

Gagan wrote:
Pakistan is building NBC proof underground bunkers like crazy - I count upwards of a Dozen odd. They are preparing for Armageddon with Indian 20-200 kiloton nukes falling on their mil facilities and cities.

Interesting. This i is precisely why any counter force attempt by India would be pointless. The Paki jernails are welcome to hide in their bunkers but if they start nuclear war they will eventually emerge from their bunkers to find millions of dead people and those left alive will rip the jernails apart for hiding while everyone else got hit.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 20 Jun 2016 12:22

^+1. Of course, no relative of the jernails must be left alive in Europe/US. That must also be made sure by special services of India, all Mossad like. This must also be made clear to the jernails in no uncertain terms. Their genepool will end the moment the press the button.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Jun 2016 21:53

During my travels in eastern Europe, I noticed that all subways were really deep and protected from the environment. Mostly it was the soviets who financed/constructed them. They were definitely made to survive war and act as bunkers.

We need to imbibe a similar design standard and thinking in all our civil projects as it will be nigh impossible to construct NBC bunkers at a scale reqd by India.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 21 Jun 2016 02:28

Question .....
Can the Jordanians sell their F-16s to Pakistan without American Approval ?
I am sure the answer must be a no.

The Kiwis were unable to dispose off their A-6s from Vietnam days without US approval.
In the end they sold theirs A-6s to a private fighter jet training firm in the US that contracts to the US Military with US state Govt approval.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Jun 2016 05:22

No they can't sell the F-16s without massa's nod
One of the 5-6 lettered treaties forbids that.
But do remember that all that massa had said was, we won't pay for the F-16s from csf. Bring your own money and u are free to buy the block 52s.
The bleedy beggers didn't even have 400 million $, they were expecting the subsidy!

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 21 Jun 2016 10:30

Gagan wrote:Just a comparision between India and Pakistan based on Google Earth imagery.

Pakistan is building NBC proof underground bunkers like crazy - I count upwards of a Dozen odd. They are preparing for Armageddon with Indian 20-200 kiloton nukes falling on their mil facilities and cities.

What do we see on the Indian side hain ji?
ONE NBC bunker in 7 RCR, and that's about it !
Oh yes! We see the IA, IAF preparing for Cold start in an NBC compromised environment. Don't worry about the IN, they're NBC proof to begin with mostly.

Has anyone thought why this is so?
Why is the only question that the western nuke scientists ask Indians goes like this - "what do you guys plan to do if a sub-kiloton / dirty nuke falls on India / Indian military column."
Why is India Not building NBC underground bunkers hain ji? Is india short of funds?

The realiy lies close to what the western nuclear scientists are asking - Pakistanis are preparing for 200KT indian bums, India is only worried about subkiloton fizzles, and India will fight it out in an NBC environment.

It is their version of missile defense (reduced effectiveness of bomb requiring more per target) - a lower cost option(compared to s-400 or AAD+PAD) with reduced scope (no mobility/protection of lesser number of people/material) what they can afford only. This allows the figleaf of strategic ==

Screambowl · Post by **Screambowl** » 22 Jun 2016 16:16

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 867989.cms
Pakistan is selling nuclear materials to N Korea and China knows it, US sources say

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2016 17:10

Aditya G wrote:During my travels in eastern Europe, I noticed that all subways were really deep and protected from the environment. Mostly it was the soviets who financed/constructed them. They were definitely made to survive war and act as bunkers.

We need to imbibe a similar design standard and thinking in all our civil projects as it will be nigh impossible to construct NBC bunkers at a scale reqd by India.

IMO the entire idea of getting a population to survive nuclear war by hiding in bunkers is absurd. In India any government that attempts this will not last beyond one term.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Jun 2016 21:51

Its an aid to civil defence. You just maintain building standards that have in built passive defence thinking.

In Singapore all houses have to have a room with a blast and fire proof steel door else "naksha pass nahi hoga" ....

arun · Post by **arun** » 19 Aug 2016 11:48

The Uniformed Jihadis of the Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan follow tactics adopted by a foreign army of occupation seeking to subdue an alien population and use a weapon that is both a disproportionate use of force and an inaccurate one prone to create collateral non-combatant damage.

Apparently the Jihad Fi Sabilillah (Jihad In the Way of Allah) portion of the Islamic Republic’s motto of Iman,Taqwa, Jihad Fi Sabilillah (Faith, Piety and Jihad In the Way of Allah) makes it alright to subject fellow Mohammadden Pathan’s aka Puhtun’s to aerial bombing.

What a contrast between how the Uniformed Jihadis of Punjabi dominated Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the Indian Army which in conducting operations within India is every mindful of using proportionate force and reducing the possibility of civilian collateral damage and thus eschews aerial bombing and artillery bombardment.

11 militants killed in Khyber airstrikes

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 31 Aug 2016 18:34

interesting timing......
http://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/pak ... spartanntp

The head of Pakistan’s next-generation submarine programme and senior naval officials briefed the members of the National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence on August 26 regarding the deal worth approximately USD 4 to 5 billion, according to state-run media.
In April, a senior Pakistan Navy official had announced that Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW) had secured a contract to produce four of the eight submarines, which will be fitted with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems.Analysts speculate that the new submarines will be lighter export versions of the People Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) Type 039 and Type 041 Yuan-class conventional attack submarines.
The first four submarines are expected to be delivered by the end of 2023 while the remaining four will be assembled in Karachi by 2028.

wig · Post by **wig** » 31 Aug 2016 18:35

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 944530.cms

Pakistan to buy eight attack submarines from China

Pakistan will acquire at least eight modified diesel-electric attack submarines from China by 2028 in a nearly $5 billion agreement, said to be the biggest arms export deal for the Communist giant. .
The head of Pakistan's next-generation submarine programme and senior naval officials briefed the members of the National Assembly's standing committee on defence on August 26 regarding the deal worth approximately $4 to 5 billion, according to state-run media. .
The statement made by naval officials to the committee members showed that the programme of next generation submarines was moving ahead, Radio Pakistan reported In April, a senior Pakistan Navy official had announced that Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW) had secured a contract to produce four of the eight submarines, which will be fitted with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems. .
Often described as Pakistan's "all weather friend", China is expected to extend a long term loan to Pakistan at a low interest rate to cover the cost of the project, the report said. .
It has not officially been confirmed what type of submarines will be supplied to the Pakistan Navy by the China Shipbuilding Trading Company (CSTC) and there has been considerable speculation on the subject in the past. .
Analysts speculate that the new submarines will be lighter export versions of the People Liberation Army Navy's (PLAN) Type 039 and Type 041 Yuan-class conventional attack submarines.
he first four submarines are expected to be delivered by the end of 2023 while the remaining four will be assembled in Karachi by 2028.
One of Agosta90B — Hamza (Khalid Class) — was indigenously constructed and commissioned in 2008 and another was partially completed here. The third was built in France.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 31 Aug 2016 22:36

buy?? Too much money with Chinese
" China is expected to extend a long term loan to Pakistan at a low interest rate to cover the cost of the project".

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 31 Aug 2016 23:00

This has been reported every month for the last 10-12 months. Pakis are still hoping massa or germany will fund them a better western sub. If all fails they will gladly accept the chinese garbage.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Sep 2016 06:28

ranjan.rao wrote:buy?? Too much money with Chinese
" China is expected to extend a long term loan to Pakistan at a low interest rate to cover the cost of the project".

Sri Lanka will give Pakistan a loan

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 02 Sep 2016 09:40

Pakistan Navy inducts ATR Aircraft and Scaneagle UAV in Fleet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvgyrGhU9c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ2prFCOUS8

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Sep 2016 10:49

Scan eagle capability looks like Nishant.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 02 Sep 2016 11:11

Desperate bid since unkil won't provide any more P-3's and they can't afford P-8's or anything else. I hope DRDO is working in Indian MRMP with C-295's as base aircraft.

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 02 Sep 2016 12:26

shiv wrote:
ranjan.rao wrote:buy?? Too much money with Chinese
" China is expected to extend a long term loan to Pakistan at a low interest rate to cover the cost of the project".
Sri Lanka will give Pakistan a loan

sri lanka??

err...how and why? i assume you said this sarcastically.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 02 Sep 2016 23:52

Paki missiles must be guided by mecca directional sensor, they seem to need gyroscopes which have to be smuggled in? The chinese products don't seem up to scratch.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1281572/pakist ... -equipment

Syed Vaqar Ashraf had previously pleaded guilty to trying to procure gyroscopes and illegally ship them to Pakistan so they could be used by the Pakistani military, the Justice Department said in a news release.