Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Dec 2014 03:32

Cosmo_R wrote:@Kartik ^^^ Lawnetendarts?

They have a hundred. At 4/year, it will still take 20 years to crash them all.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 04 Dec 2014 11:16

Its not just the Mirages that are suffering high attrition rates..the F-7Ps too have a high attrition rate..overall their attrition rate is very high, with the total fleet flying less than 1,00,000 hours per year. The accelerated induction schedule for the JF-17 is to get rid of these obscolescent fighters rapidly.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Dec 2014 13:56

JF-17 has also has 2 crashes, even it is seldom been used. Its per hour crash rate will probably be worse than Mirages and F-7P and PG.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 04 Dec 2014 15:49

2 ? I thought 1 JF-17 crashed killing the pilot and that was it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Dec 2014 15:57

there was 1 more a few months back in quetta or someplace where the pilot ejected safely unlike the gravvity induced ride the previous time. After the 1st crash an anonymous report stated that the PAF pilot was trying to do more than 6G which the aircraft in a spin, he ejected but the parachute did not work.

The PAF has been coy about mentioning the aircraft but this seems to be JF-17.

PAF aircraft crashes near Quetta

PAF aircraft crashes near Quetta

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Dec 2014 17:45

this one seems to be a thunder ?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Dec 2014 18:56

rahulm garu this pic was already pasted in this forum AFAIK

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Dec 2014 19:58

Thank you. God Bless America
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/12/ ... um=twitter
Indian Army Killed 6 Pak Terrorists In High-Altitude J&K This Week; Here's What They Were Carrying

The Indian Army says it hasn't seen better equipped terrorist infiltrators in all it years of operations in Jammu & Kashmir. Between December 1-3, in an operation codenamed Jatti Gali for the forbidding forested nook at 14,000 feet in the Naugam sector of Baramulla, soldiers of a Garhwal Rifles unit took out six 'foreign' (the Army's euphemism for Pakistani) terrorists. The terrorists had Swiss-made snow clothing and boots (with crampons) and were carrying more weapons & equipment per man than ever encountered before. Among their kit was a huge quantity of grenades, batteries, ammunition for assault rifles, digital navigation consoles, wire-cutters, satellite phones, snow boots and a large quantity of high-energy food.

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 Dec 2014 20:12

Shreeman wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote:@Kartik ^^^ Lawnetendarts?
They have a hundred. At 4/year, it will still take 20 years to crash them all.

It will be geometric progression and all could go in 5 yrs!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 04 Dec 2014 20:43

We could blacklist these companies under explicit reason of support of terrorism, can we?

saip · Post by **saip** » 04 Dec 2014 20:52

What is the color coding for the grenades for? Are they different types of grenades?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Dec 2014 08:51

Rahul M wrote:this one seems to be a thunder ?

it is a JF-17.

But that was a pic from the first known crash of the JF-17. The second one in Quetta was supposedly a F-7PG.

F-7PG likely to have long service life despite crash

Long in this case is just 20 years. These fighters are basically point defence fighters that stand no chance if detected at BVR distances by enemy fighters. Very low MTBO for the engine and airframe.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 05 Dec 2014 08:52

And in news, Pakistan is now apparently interested in the Mi-28NE.

Pakistani officials confirm 'Havoc' talks

Pakistan is in discussions with Russia regarding the purchase of an unspecified number of Mi-28NE 'Havoc' attack helicopters, the country's minister for defence production, Rana Tanvir Hussain, has confirmed to IHS Jane's .

Citing Russian sources, IHS Jane's reported on 26 November that Pakistan was interested in buying a batch of Mi-28NE helicopters. This followed confirmation from Pakistani officials that a request has been made for purchasing Mi-35 'Hind' heavy-lift/attack helicopters.

Although neither side has confirmed the number of Mi-35s to be supplied, IHS Jane's understands from a variety of defence sources that Pakistan is seeking 15 to 20 helicopters.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 05 Dec 2014 09:10

Kartik wrote:And in news, Pakistan is now apparently interested in the Mi-28NE.

Pakistani officials confirm 'Havoc' talks

Pakistan is in discussions with Russia regarding the purchase of an unspecified number of Mi-28NE 'Havoc' attack helicopters, the country's minister for defence production, Rana Tanvir Hussain, has confirmed to IHS Jane's .

Citing Russian sources, IHS Jane's reported on 26 November that Pakistan was interested in buying a batch of Mi-28NE helicopters. This followed confirmation from Pakistani officials that a request has been made for purchasing Mi-35 'Hind' heavy-lift/attack helicopters.

Although neither side has confirmed the number of Mi-35s to be supplied, IHS Jane's understands from a variety of defence sources that Pakistan is seeking 15 to 20 helicopters.

Pakis with Russian gunships and us with american. Oh how the times have changed !!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Dec 2014 10:31

probably a ploy to get Khan to release another 20 Ah1 from its ample boneyards.

arun · Post by **arun** » 05 Dec 2014 10:57

X Posted from the “Positive News from the USA” thread.

US sells the man who helped them locate their archenemy Osama Bin Laden hiding at a compound right next door to Pakistan’s West Point and Sandhurst , the Pakistan Military Academy at Kakul near Abottbad, down the river. Condition that aid provided to the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan requires Dr. Shakil Afridi to be released from jail in Pakistan is dropped by the US:

Congress seeks report on US-Pak security cooperation

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 05 Dec 2014 11:33

arun wrote:X Posted from the “Positive News from the USA” thread.

US sells the man who helped them locate their archenemy Osama Bin Laden hiding at a compound right next door to Pakistan’s West Point and Sandhurst , the Pakistan Military Academy at Kakul near Abottbad, down the river. Condition that aid provided to the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan requires Dr. Shakil Afridi to be released from jail in Pakistan is dropped by the US:

Congress seeks report on US-Pak security cooperation

probably a ploy to get Khan to release another 20 Ah1 from its ample boneyards

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 05 Dec 2014 15:09

IDEAS 2014: Pakistani defence minister says Russia ready to sell RD-93 engine directly to Islamabad

A recently concluded defence co-operation agreement between Russia and Pakistan will be followed up by the latter purchasing the Klimov RD-93 aircraft engines directly from Russia, Pakistan's defence minister has told IHS Jane's .

Speaking at the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi, Defence Minister Khawaja Mohammad Asif said: "We are now looking to purchase aircraft engines like the RD-93 from Russia. This is important for us."

The Sino-Pakistani-produced JF-17 Thunder fighter is powered by the Klimov RD-93, but previous engines were purchased by China from Russia and supplied to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra, where the JF-17s are manufactured.

Good for Russia. Pakistan will be dependent on Russia to keep up majority of it's fleet post 2020's and Russians can leverage this to get whatever they want from Pakis.

member_28756 · Post by **member_28756** » 05 Dec 2014 15:36

Ankar wrote:IDEAS 2014: Pakistani defence minister says Russia ready to sell RD-93 engine directly to Islamabad

A recently concluded defence co-operation agreement between Russia and Pakistan will be followed up by the latter purchasing the Klimov RD-93 aircraft engines directly from Russia, Pakistan's defence minister has told IHS Jane's .

Speaking at the International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2014 in Karachi, Defence Minister Khawaja Mohammad Asif said: "We are now looking to purchase aircraft engines like the RD-93 from Russia. This is important for us."

The Sino-Pakistani-produced JF-17 Thunder fighter is powered by the Klimov RD-93, but previous engines were purchased by China from Russia and supplied to the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex at Kamra, where the JF-17s are manufactured.
Good for Russia. Pakistan will be dependent on Russia to keep up majority of it's fleet post 2020's and Russians can leverage this to get whatever they want from Pakis.

Hahahaha ! Maybe they can cut out the Chinese and hijacked this plane as their own. Perhaps even export it from Kamra as a Pakistani plane and get all the profit.

Should teach the Chinese a lesson on how Pakistan deal with its allies.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Dec 2014 16:39

The only fly in the ointment is all the parts are made in China, Kamra only does screwdrivergiri. These statements are for pure H&D.

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Dec 2014 11:40

X Posted from the “Pakistani Role In Global Terrorism Thread”.

Mohammadden Terrorist attack on Uri linked to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Senior {Indian} Army officer discloses that food packets recovered from dead Ununiformed Jihadi’s who attacked Uri are same as those used by the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The Army on Saturday said the food packets recovered from the six slain militants, involved in the daring attack on the Uri camp, bore marks of the Pakistani establishment.

“The food packets, which were recovered from the encounter site, are generally used by Pakistan Army,” a senior Army officer said.

PTI via Hindu:

Food packets with Pakistan markings found in Uri camp

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Dec 2014 11:46

X Posted from the STFUP thread links to images of the food packets / MRE recovered from dead Mohammadden Terrorists who attacked Uri base:

sadhana wrote:Link for some of the MRE photos:

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -still-on/

The twitter feed of an Indian Express reporter has pics too:

https://twitter.com/manaman_chhina/stat ... 7924292608

https://twitter.com/manaman_chhina/stat ... 6461700096

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Dec 2014 20:48

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

The Mohammadden religion conditioned pathological hatred of those who have served as Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan for India and Non-Mohammaddens, is very evident in this screed by Lt. Gen. Ghulam Mustafa (Retd.):

India versus Modi

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Dec 2014 14:28

Revamped JF-17 Mainstay for Pakistan's security - StraitS Times

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Dec 2014 14:39

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

A_Gupta wrote:http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... shows-gps/

The six Lashkar-e-Taiba jihadists who staged Friday’s attack on an Indian military position near Uri left the small town of Chham, across the Line of Control (LoC) in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, hiking west for almost 24 hours, across dense high-altitude forest, before staging their attack at dawn, military sources have told The Sunday Express. The route, sources said, was revealed by digital records from the global positioning sets carried by the terrorists.

Flown to New Delhi early on Saturday, the digital positioning data shows the Lashkar assault team’s route took them from Chham to the LoC, and then to near Kamalkote village — the site of a cross-LOC artillery exchange which claimed the life of teenager Gulshan Bano last month.

The group, sources said, appeared to have stopped for a meal before crossing the Jhelum on foot, at about 2.30 am on Friday.
- See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... nXfCJ.dpuf

More links of the 12 Mohammadden terrorists who got exterminated while carrying out attacks at Uri, Soura and Arnia over the last eight days, to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan emerge.

Hindustan Times also reports entries recovered from GPS equipment carried by Mohammadden Terrorists who attacked Uri show they crossed over the LoC from the part of Jammu & Kashmir illegally occupied by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Thus

The GPS units of the terrorists in Arnia, which is 3km from the International Border (IB), showed Sialkot as their last known position on November 24.

Those of the Uri attackers showed they’d been in Chham, a known militant launching pad across the LoC, on December 3 and had crossed over at least one day before the attack, investigators said.

Besides GPS enteries, ready to eat meal packets were same as those used by the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Military of the Islamic republic of Pakistan” while arms and ammunition carried markings of the Pakistan’s Government owned ordnance factory:

According to the investigators, the Uri gunmen carried ready-to-eat meal packets (pav bhaji, chicken achari, dry fruits, etc) regularly used by the Pakistan army, and packets of made-in-Pakistan ‘Super Biscuits’ and chocolates. They had 37 grenades with markings of an ordnance factory in Rawalpindi’s Wah Cantonment and 1,500 rounds of ammunition.

From Hindustan Times:

Grenades, food items, GPS entries: Terror came from across LoC

More from Times of India which reports that Pakistani identity cards and Pakistani origin medicines recovered from slain Mohammadden Terrorists:

J&K terror attack: Slain terrorists carried medicines, eatables from Pakistan

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 07 Dec 2014 18:41

arun wrote:X Posted from the STFUP thread.

A_Gupta wrote:http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... shows-gps/

It will be interesting if all militant launch pads can be mapped. Googling leads to some interesting links

Pak activates 17 terror camps, 25-30 launch pads across IB
Militants set to target Assembly polls
Posted on 2/09/2014 by Dailyexcelsior
Sanjeev Pargal
Link: http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/pak-activ ... across-ib/

40 Pak militants to enter through J&K?
Jun 04, 2010 - PRAMOD KUMAR | New Delhi
Link: http://archive.asianage.com/india/40-pa ... ugh-jk-153

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 08 Dec 2014 14:02

Pakistan seeks to prop up defense exports to boost industry

Some news on different defense programs from IDEAS 2014.

krish.pf · Post by **krish.pf** » 10 Dec 2014 01:21

From their IDEAS 2014 poster which got over last week.

http://s1.postimg.org/5oxxp3xb3/jf_17specsphotoshop.jpg

This fan made photoshop came out more than 2 years ago.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Dec 2014 09:27

We can dismiss that pic since the placement of the aerial refueling probe itself is wrong. The JF-17 BLock II has the probe behind the pilot's line of sight, mounted on the fuselage. One of the ugliest solutions I've seen on a fighter. Though I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of CFT being worked on for the Block III by CAC.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 10 Dec 2014 10:47

The above pic of "bander" came from this link

http://military-photoshops.blogspot.in/ ... -cfts.html

nishu · Post by **nishu** » 10 Dec 2014 12:33

^^^ is tri color painted on bandars back

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 10 Dec 2014 15:02

Like the picture, most of the specs of JF-17 are made-up to suit the ego of Pigs.

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 15 Dec 2014 15:27

http://www.dawn.com/news/1150858/us-fun ... r-military

THE sanctioning of $1bn in military aid to Pakistan by the US Congress will be hailed in many quarters in Pakistan as a sign of improving relations between Pakistan and the US and evidence of trust in the leadership and strategy of army chief Gen Raheel Sharif.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 15 Dec 2014 15:42

Like the picture, most of the specs of JF-17 are made-up to suit the ego of Pigs.

There is a need for a mindset chance. Rather than follow them, you could just say pigs are more intelligent than a Pakistani.
Then paste this video
That will be the biggest insult to them and they will surely go mad. Not following their way and trying to be one of them.

They wanted to be so different from us Indians. So lets tell them they are far less intelligent than a pig..and so different from us, others and even the pig.

maz · Post by **maz** » 16 Dec 2014 23:17

Can anyone translate Urdu? If so, would be grateful for highlights from Pak Navy magazine? Many thanks in advance

http://paknavy.gov.pk/NAVY_NEWS/Oct14urdu.pdf

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Dec 2014 01:16

maz wrote:Can anyone translate Urdu? If so, would be grateful for highlights from Pak Navy magazine? Many thanks in advance

http://paknavy.gov.pk/NAVY_NEWS/Oct14urdu.pdf

maz, i can read urdu fine but am bandwidth constrained for anything other than "snarky" comments in bakistan threads. Can you post the request in positive news and TSP threads? You should have a response very quickly.

VijayN · Post by **VijayN** » 20 Dec 2014 07:30

The new mantra in Paki land (they haven't forgotten their roots

)

I am Brahma, I am Shiva and cycle will go on until I am Shunya!! Check this video

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=00a_1419011282

Excuse for the OT.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Dec 2014 11:12

Pakis not getting more Perry class frigates ....

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /20642841/

...

Signed into law Thursday by President Barack Obama, the Naval Vessel Transfer Act of 2013 authorizes the transfer of the frigates Curts and McClusky to Mexico on a grant basis.

The act also authorizes the sale of the frigates Taylor, Gary, Carr and Elrod to Taiwan.

All the ships are of the Oliver Hazard Perry class, now being phased out of the US Navy. All remaining frigates are to be decommissioned by the end of September.

Gone from earlier versions of the bill are proposed transfers of frigates to Thailand and Pakistan. Those ships were removed from consideration by concerns about the May military coup in Thailand, after which the US government canceled numerous military deals and engagements with the country, and a number of political conditions attached to ongoing military aid to Pakistan.
...

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Dec 2014 00:05

Pakistan Could Soon Have More Nukes Than the U.K. and France
And smaller and more destabilizing ones, too

Pakistan has one of the fastest growing nuclear stockpiles in the world. Islamabad refuses to release any information regarding its nuclear stockpile, but open sources suggest it possesses as many as 120 atomic warheads.

And lately, Pakistan has been working hard to shrink the warheads’ size and fit them on smaller, more flexible tactical missiles. That effort has some sobering implications.

A satellite image from January 2014 seems to indicate that Pakistan’s National Defense Complex has finished fitting out of two additional Hatf-7 Babur cruise missile launchers, one of the few non-strategic nuke systems that Pakistan could deploy against an attacking Indian army.

The 350-kilometer-range Babur, which debuted in 2005, is Pakistan’s first land-attack cruise missile. There’s also and air-launched version. The more recent Nasr, a surface-to-surface missile system with a 60 kilometer range, first appeared in 2011.

Both platforms are highly mobile and sport technology that many analysts believe originated in China.

We don’t know how many of each system Pakistan’s NDC has produced, but continuing production underscores Islamabad’s intention to deploy nukes to counter India’s conventional forces.
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:
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Pakistan’s potential tactical nukes could lower the barrier to a nuclear exchange. At least that’s what Indian officials believe.

“India will not be the first to use nuclear weapons, but if it is attacked with such weapons, it would engage in nuclear retaliation which will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage on its adversary,” Shyam Saran, former Indian foreign secretary and the current chairman of India’s National Security Advisory Board, told an audience at Delhi’s Habitat Centre in April.

“The label on a nuclear weapon used for attacking India, strategic or tactical, is irrelevant from the Indian perspective,” Saran said.

“[A] limited nuclear war is a contradiction in terms,” he continued. “Any nuclear exchange, once initiated, would swiftly and inexorably escalate to the strategic level. Pakistan would be prudent not to assume otherwise as it sometimes appears to do, most recently by developing and perhaps deploying theater nuclear weapons.”

All that said, it’s unclear how close Pakistan is to actually deploying its tactical nukes. Likewise, India has only proposed its new offensive doctrine—it hasn’t implemented the plan. But that’s not to say tragic miscalculations couldn’t occur.

“Pakistani motivation is to dissuade India from contemplating conventional punitive retaliation to sub-conventional but highly destructive and disruptive cross-border terrorist strikes,” Saran said.

But it seems unlikely New Delhi will cave to the implicit threat. And what happens when India calls Pakistan’s atomic bluff? Assuming it is a bluff.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 Dec 2014 03:02

Pakistan moves its soldiers off Kashmir border, reinforces them to Waziristan

New Delhi: The terrorist attack on Peshawar school has had a direct impact on India’s security scenario as well. Intelligence reports suggest that Pakistan has started withdrawing some of its troops from the eastern border along Kashmir in an attempt to rush reinforcements into its western sector, particularly in Waziristan, to fight the Taliban.

Sources said that Pakistan Army top brass, including chief Raheel Sharif, has been opposed to reduction of troops along the border. But following the Peshawar incident, they have been forced to draw up a new security plan.