Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

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Raja Bose
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Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 03 Oct 2012 11:53

Continue your gadget wars here...

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby anmol » 03 Oct 2012 16:23

Abhijeet wrote:Is the Back button not useful because it has been around for a while? It's a lot better than not having it, for sure. What's the issue if the Nexus 1 had it as well?

nachiket wrote:That "one button and way to navigate" is the Home button which works exactly the same way in Android phones as well. Nothing special or exclusive about it in iOS. The Back button is a additional functionality provided which works across all apps and as Abhijeet has mentioned even aids in jumping to a previously open app.

Mort Walker wrote:Yes, the back button does work well. I don’t see the funny in this.



ImageImageImageImageImage

So here is what we have on Android :-

a) randomly organized set of hardware buttons.
b) not all phones are having all hardware buttons.
c) phones relying on soft buttons.. but here too buttons are randomly organized.
d) even with phones using soft buttons, all the buttons aren't used.. some use 3 and others 4.
e) Apps that use what is Apple's UX style and hence continue to use in-app back/menu-option button..

And WORST of all: even Google's own Play Store app.. which can be considered the most important app, that too uses in-app back button in same position where one finds back button in iOS apps.

OTOH, on the iOS side there is this :-

a) Home button
b) In-App back/menu button
c) Multi-touch gestures to navigate.

And somehow.. Android's UX Cluster@#ck is "better"..

In case, the hardware back button is such critical feature( not saying it isn't, in fact I would have a feature than not have it.) then one platform that have implemented it well is certainly not Android.. it is WP. So no matter the OEM, there are three hardware buttons to navigate in fixed position and hence apps are written accordingly.

Image


Abhijeet wrote:Sorry, not sure if I understand, or perhaps I am getting into a fanboy war.

Mort Walker wrote:Again, have you used ICS and JB on any device before you pass judgment on the UX?

nachiket wrote:Of course since this functionality is unavailable in iOS it automatically becomes unnecessary and "only for geeks". If Apple decides to add a "back" button to the iPhone one day, the new button will immediately become revolutionary and magical.


Not sure I consider myself an Apple iPhan.. especially when I don't use any iDevice. Though at home we have devices of all platform.. hence its easy to see pros and cons of all. I personally use Android phone which is running version 4.1 so yes I am using JB and have used ICS and older versions. Despite its UX and Updates situation, I prefer this platform over other platforms for many many reasons.. for example I don't have to deal with iTunes and also that it works well with linux.

Also I agree completely with Nachiket Ji when he says that iPhans would claim that any feature that is not present in iStuff isn't necessary, but once Apple would add it they would line up to buy iStuff for this new magical feature. But as stupid as these iPhans can be, they have a good point that Apple usually implements such ux features really well and makes sure that apps adjust to UX guidelines. For example, see how they tackled iPad and now are dealing with new iPhone.. instead of automatically scaling sutff they are making developers to adjust their apps to work well with new screen.

Mort Walker wrote:a.) Actually, quite a bit. The difference between Android 4.0 and 4.1 is not large. Google did not launch any product. Motorola is still operating independently and the decision to launch the RAZR M with 4.0 ICS has more to do with Verizon forcing Motorola to do that. VZW has nearly 50% of the US, so MOTO had no choice. VZW, along with ATT, are nefarious telecoms.
b.) What MOTO did with the ATRIX and Sammy did with the Galaxy S not getting ICS has more to do with hardware limitations (such as poor GPS chipset and LBS) and a business decision. It is not an indictment of Android itself since there are so many devices. Further, the improvements from GB to JB are more significant than any other mobile OS in recent history. Your statement indicates you’ve never used a Galaxy Nexus device with ICS or JB and actually seen the improvements to Android.


a) When larger number of people are using 6 version old Android(2.2).. and close to ~60% using 3-4 version old android(2.3.0-7) than ICS (forget JB).. I don't see how that is "quite a lot". Also, I know there isn't much difference.. that is why there is no excuse for not porting it.

Regarding the Motorola thing, it is BS to claim it is independent. Motorola is currently being run by Googlers and a truly independent Motorola would have done what its ex-CEO threatened to do: Sue other Android phone maker for using its IP. Instead Motorola is using its patent portfolio to defend overall Android ecosystem.

Speaking of Telecom operators.. what allows them to stall updates ? And what makes it so hard for them to provide updates ? And why they intentionally cripple their newest phones with older roms ? Due to lack of standardization of hardware and software, they have to somehow get drivers/firmware for components to working with newer version of AOSP and whatever layer that phone makers wish to run on top and then add Telecom operators own modifications.. and then test all that.. that is why it is simply too complicated and expensive than to simple not provide update and instead just sell new phones with newer software. And YES Android is to blame for that.

b) ROFL, so even when companies fail to keep promise of delivering ICS.. its not really androids fault. This is due to lack of standardization that will almost always be the reason why firms fail to provide updates.. whereas thanks to standardization with WP and iOS it will always be lot easier on those two platforms.

Now its up to you.. to consider the lack of standardization as weakness for Android and strength for WP/iOS. And I think I mentioned earlier in this post that I do use jellybean on my phone.

Mort Walker wrote:No. Linux didn’t succeed in the consumer market because it was never really installed on any significant number of computers sold to the public. Linux remained for software development and server use. It also never had Microsoft Office either which most people use even on Mac OS X. Open Office is more of a curiosity rather than an actual tool.


We have discussed this before, so I may sound like broken record. When founder of Gnome blames linus for "Killing Linux on Desktop",when main KDE developer is busy making Tablet and tablet oriented UI(IMVHO a positive development) and when basically everyone is unhappy with state of major Desktop Suites.. it is clear what is wrong with it. All one have to do is to read the rants on what exactly killed it or one can just use major distros for sometime. And even Miguel and Linus don't blame it on the fact that it doesn't come preinstalled. Those System76 machines preloaded with ubuntu are not flying off shelves nor are those Dell's preloaded ubuntu laptops.So not being preinstalled on PCs is hardly the reason.. that didn't stop other opensource projects like firefox...

But whatever, lets just agree to disagree.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Anujan » 03 Oct 2012 20:26

Usually the way it works is this. OEMs sign supply contracts with Cell phone companies to introduce certain models with certain features. The Cell phone companies actually "procure" those handsets, test & certify them and deploy them on their network. Phone bought through this model, typically needs new ROMs certified by carriers before they are OTA'ed. Ofcourse you can sell an unlocked handset, but most massa customers dont buy handsets that way.

This model gives cell phone companies great leverage. For example, verizon has blocked NFC hardware element in android phones (if I recall correctly sprint allows it). The official reason is that they are uneasy to deploy "untested hardware". The cynical reason is that they want to roll out isis, their own payment scheme and dont want customers to get used to some other schemes for doing NFC payments.

This is the hardware and software reason as to why you dont get the latest and greatest on cell phones. The OEMs are only partly to blame. Apple has two advantages going for it. They have signed contracts to allow OEM side updates (they still have to get it tested and certified by the carriers) and they have very few handset types. You might ask "why dont Android OEMs sign contracts", but that is like asking "What took other music stores so long to sign contracts that Apple could get?" (note that even AMZN had trouble negotiating, that Fruitco seemingly didnt have).

Now as you correctly pointed out, many phones are running 5 year old Android, because Android existed 5 years back. You can yell "fragmentation" all you want but eventually it will happen to windows phones too. Not that M$ has stellar record on this: Desktop equivalent being that many corporations still run windows XP and after Windows8 is released, most of them hope to upgrade to windows 7. :mrgreen: That doesnt seem to concern or affect anyone so far? The phone side fragmentation is already happening -- prev gen WP7 handsets, including the Lumias cannot be upgraded to WP8. But this is not that big a deal, because only 4 people bought WP7 handsets of which one got it for free :mrgreen: and 3 developers wrote applications for them so the number of people complaining is not too high. 8)

As far as hardware diversity is concerned, historically computers have never been of a "single type". Neither have PDAs or even dumb phones. I do not see the reason why Smartphones should look all the same. And OEMs probably dont want all their smartphones looking the same because appearance of smartphones has become a major selling point (which if you recall was not the case for PCs till well designed Macs came along). And Mickey should be the last person to complain because what Android is doing now, Mickey did it for PC OS. Anyone could install windows (after paying license ofcourse) without getting any type of hardware form factor certification. So you had things like VGN-UX490N which ran vista (to be accurate, it stood vista, because what it did cannot be called "running") and was impossible to use with resistive touch screen, mustard sized keys and bizarre "swipe" trackpad.

Image

I dont recall anyony crying "Inconsistent UI spoiling the brand!!" then? So, smartphones will look different. Some will have hardware keys, some will have soft keys. Some will have hardware keyboards, some wont. Just like how some computers have trackpads, some have trackballs, others have mice, some have windows keys some dont. You can argue "wowza that is bad for UI" but that is in the nth degree. Customers will choose what they want and pick winners and losers.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Anujan » 03 Oct 2012 20:53

I have an android phone and an iPod touch. As a customer one problem with phones is solved. Contrary to what they tell you, you can largely accomplish the same tasks with no difficulty on each of the platforms. The os has become irrelevant to a great degree. Yes the companies make a big deal of it, but the difference is nowhere near windows / Mac / Linux on desktop. And the app selection is largely equivalent.

What it means for me as a customer is that I have different hardware to choose from, prices are low and I don't have to worry about differences in core capability to accomplish everyday tasks.

I would like to see that happen to carriers too where you don't think a lot about what ISP you want to get and don't worry about contract nonsense.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 03 Oct 2012 21:17

Regarding the Motorola thing, it is BS to claim it is independent. Motorola is currently being run by Googlers and a truly independent Motorola would have done what its ex-CEO threatened to do: Sue other Android phone maker for using its IP. Instead Motorola is using its patent portfolio to defend overall Android ecosystem.


No. MOTO != Android. You need to understand that and please study some more and come back when you learn something. Motorola Mobility's day-to-day operations are still run out of the group people who are in Chicago area. Strategic decisions will be done by Google until such time there is tighter integration. Motorola itself has a lot of IP related to radio technologies and when the split happened, Mobility got to use that IP without royalties to Solutions. From the engineering staff's point of view, the split has to be formalized since many engineers are in the same locations using each others resources (this was true as of last summer when Mobility was developing the new RAZRs).

Speaking of Telecom operators.. what allows them to stall updates ? And what makes it so hard for them to provide updates ? And why they intentionally cripple their newest phones with older roms ? Due to lack of standardization of hardware and software, they have to somehow get drivers/firmware for components to working with newer version of AOSP and whatever layer that phone makers wish to run on top and then add Telecom operators own modifications.. and then test all that.. that is why it is simply too complicated and expensive than to simple not provide update and instead just sell new phones with newer software. And YES Android is to blame for that.


Verizon is calling the shots here when they want to ensure they can put there bloatware and hooks in to the OS. VZW doesn't want people to tether their phones to tablets or laptops, and they will ensure to limit that as much as possible. VZW's only device to have 4.1 JB is the CDMA Galaxy Nexus which just started receiving the JB update. VZW hasn't been able to to do what they want in terms of bloat ware and limitations on the JB version of the Droid RAZR M. They forced Mobility to stick with ICS.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Oct 2012 00:27

Anujan wrote: Desktop equivalent being that many corporations still run windows XP and after Windows8 is released, most of them hope to upgrade to windows 7.


The observable effects are the same but the causes are different. Didn't Mickey stop providing support for Win XP some months ago? - they do that to force all their enterprise clients to upgrade so I would assume most of the corps run Win7 now.

In Mickey's case, the Windows refresh cycle is much slower than Android so they have a sliding window of [current_version-1, current_version] which they do seem to consistently enforce. Windows Vista is ofcourse conveniently ignored as a non-state actor :mrgreen: And the manufacturers don't put their own skins and stuff on top of the Windows OEM software load - they will put some apps but that's it, L&F remains the same. Morever, there is no third party which gets to veto specs and features on the desktops/laptops - Best Buy has virtually no say in the systems specs or software features of the PCs/Laptops they sell. There is no Best Buy version of a Sony Vaio laptop vs. a Frys version. Mickey does know how to do vendor relations so they will align internal releases and final RTMs with the manufacturer schedules, customized to each manufacturer.

In Chacha's case, the Android refresh cycle is much faster - we are in JB and most of Android is still running GB so the window is much larger and heterogeneity is much bigger. However the legacy tail seems to be stretching longer and longer. But then we have something which Windows is not subject to, namely the clout of a third party - the operators. The operators especially in massa have a lot of say in the specific HW specs, display type, software features and ofcourse apps. And anything sold by the operators has to be tested, vetted by them, bugs filed, tested again and that takes time. So all that time taken by manufacturers to re-skin a specific release of Android gets added to all the time needed for operators to do requirements specs, testing, feedback, etc. and in this way the lag will just get worse. Plus when the operators the version of Android which the operators base their specs on, may be overtaken by 2 more new versions by the time the phone actually launches. Rubin mian tried to fix that by decreasing the frequency of major version releases but the problem still persists. At the very least, I think Chacha will need to coordinate better with the main operators to ensure more updated roll-outs rather than take a more hands-off approach. Otherwise in the long-term it may end up indirectly hurting the expansion of its core business.

On the WP front, despite all the :(( :(( by consumers, Mickey deliberately chose to break compatibility between WP7 and Win8 and hung out GB to dry for a bit (GB cant complain as beggars cant be choosers! :twisted: ) since they knew and planned for a long time that WP was going to disappear as a separate vertical platform and everything would get folded into a single platform and given the low volume share of WP handsets, the number of pissed off customers was not high. But till now at least they have managed to keep the operators hands off the L&F of the UI though how long it lasts is anybody's guess.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 04 Oct 2012 00:46

Please help me choose a data card and service for a mandatory short visit to desh this month.
http://www.indiabroadband.net/mobile-br ... india.html

Reliance/Tata/Airtel ?

TIA!

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 01:19

In Chacha's case, the Android refresh cycle is much faster - we are in JB and most of Android is still running GB so the window is much larger and heterogeneity is much bigger. However the legacy tail seems to be stretching longer and longer. But then we have something which Windows is not subject to, namely the clout of a third party - the operators. The operators especially in massa have a lot of say in the specific HW specs, display type, software features and ofcourse apps. And anything sold by the operators has to be tested, vetted by them, bugs filed, tested again and that takes time. So all that time taken by manufacturers to re-skin a specific release of Android gets added to all the time needed for operators to do requirements specs, testing, feedback, etc. and in this way the lag will just get worse. Plus when the operators the version of Android which the operators base their specs on, may be overtaken by 2 more new versions by the time the phone actually launches. Rubin mian tried to fix that by decreasing the frequency of major version releases but the problem still persists. At the very least, I think Chacha will need to coordinate better with the main operators to ensure more updated roll-outs rather than take a more hands-off approach. Otherwise in the long-term it may end up indirectly hurting the expansion of its core business.


Yes. That is correct and like you said before Mahdi deserves great credit for not letting the telecom operators dictate the OS and features of the phone. In fact, VZW didn't agree to this and lost out on the iPhone until after January 2011.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 01:31

SaiK wrote:Please help me choose a data card and service for a mandatory short visit to desh this month.
http://www.indiabroadband.net/mobile-br ... india.html

Reliance/Tata/Airtel ?

TIA!



Which city or region are you going to? Service varies between cities and the outlying towns (suburbs if you can call them that).

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby member_23367 » 04 Oct 2012 01:34

Bhaiyya Mort,Daughters Birthday is approaching and was thinking of gifting her a Tablet.Any advice which would be best?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 01:51

^^^How iOld?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby member_23367 » 04 Oct 2012 02:03

she will be 15yrs young now.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 02:15

^^^You may want an iPad mini if she has an iPhone or the Nexus 7 if she has an Android. It would best to stay with the same ecosystem.

Or...you could get her the new Galaxy Note II smart phone coming out on 24th October!

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby girish.r » 04 Oct 2012 02:20

Post from WPCENTRAL (Regarding the recent lumia ad):

We’ve noted previously that Nokia has some boldness when it comes to teasing their competitors and today that is definitely being demonstrated with this latest pro-Lumia ad.


Article Link:
http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-goes-after-dreary-apple-clever-new-video-ad

and the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjrv9-Botx8&feature=player_embedded

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 02:57

^^^It doesn't say when and where its going to be released. Lumia 920 release sounds like the Galaxy Nexus release last year. All promises and nothing concrete. WP needs some sort of website to sell these devices unlocked.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Oct 2012 04:18

^^They will not sell them unlocked in massa except thru AMZN I guess - most of the volumes come thru carriers onlee. I guess they cannot announce dates till the office Win8 event (Oct 24 or something).

VZW lost out on iPhone and they could see ATT reaping money from their exclusive with Fruit Co. and must have been desperate for a good smartphone portfolio. In such a situation Chacha could have squeezed VZW's tatte much harder. Unfortunately their Android BD instead collapsed and allowed VZW to gain the upper hand in dictating terms with the launch of the Moto Droid.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SwamyG » 04 Oct 2012 05:14

RB:
Once again very weak argument about Kool-aid. Your stubbornness to refuse that people find smart phones are useful is surreal. I too make software products that I think is priced at a premium. However, the customers find it useful to perform their business tasks. And as a tool the products are beneficial to them. We get our premium for the value we provide. Similarly, the makers of the smart phones might laugh all the way to the bank thinking they are fooling the customers, however, as long as the customers benefit, it is fair game.

Define smart phone? Well, you were the one talking about it, no? Ah...trying to hair split are we here?

Mort: True, many many more uses. Then you and me would be preaching to choir :-) BTW, it was fascinating to realize that my 14yr had taught the use of iPad to my 70+ father. He is not tech savvy, and refuses to do anything with technology. I guess only reason he turns TV on is to watch cricket, and set some channels for my mother. Now I see him reading newspapers, and proudly tell my mom that he knows how to use iPad. She now wants to read "Ananda Vikatan" on it. However, stupid Vikatan.com, wants a fee based subscription.
Last edited by SwamyG on 04 Oct 2012 05:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby ramana » 04 Oct 2012 05:35

SwamyG, SwamyG, Where have you been?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SwamyG » 04 Oct 2012 05:41

Ramana garu: I had taken a resolution to not post at BRF, until I met some personal & professional goals. I met them, and here I am :-)

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 04 Oct 2012 05:50

Mort: Mostly in BLuR, KL; Chennai, China and Kerala, Dubai - 5 days each.. but need the data card badly.
I expect not more than 2GB usage during these periods.

--

SwamyG, welcome back.. I am thinking on a similar lines.. may be the desh visit might give me some break, and shall try to do some sanyas as well.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Oct 2012 06:18

SG mian, you need to define what is a smart phone since you are the one singing it's paens bhajan style - at least know what it is that you are praising so loudly :lol:

It is not about pricing at a premium or fooling customers - it is about making design decisions which lead to feature creep and this feature creep leaves the device unable to perform its fundamental function at the same level of efficiency as it used to before.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby ShauryaT » 04 Oct 2012 08:41

I have to commit a sin. I have to buy a Windozzz laptop for someone. Any recommendations. RB: I tried your suggestion of asking this kid to buy a MacBook and then load windows on to it, but he would not budge. Needs are for college use/gaming. So, suggestion on a good make/brand these days, i have not bought one in a while.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Oct 2012 08:53

Unless he is a hardcore gamer and needs one of them hefty Alienware gaming luggables (they are not laptops imo), a Asus or Toshiba lappie is usually pretty reliable. Personally, I have found Toshibas to be good value for money at the lower-end of price point and decent specs.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Anujan » 04 Oct 2012 09:33

Raja Bose wrote:On the WP front, despite all the :(( :(( by consumers, Mickey deliberately chose to break compatibility between WP7 and Win8 and hung out GB to dry for a bit (GB cant complain as beggars cant be choosers! :twisted: ) since they knew and planned for a long time that WP was going to disappear as a separate vertical platform and everything would get folded into a single platform and given the low volume share of WP handsets, the number of pissed off customers was not high. But till now at least they have managed to keep the operators hands off the L&F of the UI though how long it lasts is anybody's guess.


Ofcourse the cynical view is that they wanted to put something out there and make some noise (instead of just crickets chirping), in the process didnt care if GB got thrown under the bus.

If you look at it that way, Mickey$ hasnt released a viable mobile OS yet. Mocks and demos yes, but no shipped product.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Oct 2012 09:55

Anujan wrote:Ofcourse the cynical view is that they wanted to put something out there and make some noise (instead of just crickets chirping), in the process didnt care if GB got thrown under the bus.


Exactly correct. They wanted to put something out with the new L&F and but knew that the underlying OS was a placeholder onlee. Mickey doesn't give 2 pakis about GB especially given GB's weakened state where it cannot protest much plus Mickey's strat-e-jee is shifting from their traditional one. Mickey is like ChipZ - ruthless, paranoid, tenacious totally unglamorous businessmen, which is why they have lasted so long. From GB's perspective, they had no choice so they may end up being saved (its a race against time rather than any evil intentions from Mickey) but that will just be a side effect if Mickey succeeds.

If you look at it that way, Mickey$ hasnt released a viable mobile OS yet. Mocks and demos yes, but no shipped product.


WP7 in terms of design and functionality followed the same path as iOS - more emphasis on integration and UX, less on functionality. That is also one of the reasons they had to race to finish WP8 coz they had to make up on the functionality side without screwing the UX. Unlike Fruit Co., Mickey doesn't have the luxury of time or blindly loyal fanbase. But Mickey's strat-e-jee has also undergone some very interesting changes from the days of just peddling Windows and Office boxes - ofcourse they continue to milk that cow to roll in their khota sikkas and will continue to do so till it runs dry.

Here we are discussing how smartphone is the greatest thing on earth, meanwhile here is a sample of a mango kasht-mar :rotfl:



Mortullah, take note.
Last edited by Raja Bose on 04 Oct 2012 10:09, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby saip » 04 Oct 2012 10:00

I had this TataDocomo data plan and while in Andhra I was able to get email and the internet on the laptop by tethering. Now I am in Chennai and I seem to connect to some weird numbered providers like '405852' and some times Idea network. I dont get the email or internet anymore. What is happening?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby BhairavP » 04 Oct 2012 11:40

Installed Windows 8 on the rMBP last night, is it just me, or is the DPI scaling on Win 8 still screwed up? Weren't they supposed to fix this in the 7->8 transition?

EDIT - ahh, here's an article discussing the same thing : http://techreport.com/review/23631/how- ... i-displays

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby negi » 04 Oct 2012 11:50

Saip saar Docomo's problem is coverage, they are better than airtel even in Bangalore but once you move out from major city areas coverage drops drastically. If one is supposed to be on constant move in desh then Airtel is a better option if you are going to travel only from city to city then Docomo might be a good choice as download speeds are better.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby BhairavP » 04 Oct 2012 13:28

^Budget no object? I like!
Galaxy Nexus is 21k on ebay.in -> good bang for the buck.

nakul
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby nakul » 04 Oct 2012 13:46

Anyone wants a new office in Finalnd? Nokia has this to offer

Image

Nokia mulls selling its headquarters
Struggling cellphone maker Nokia is seeking to sell its headquarters in Espoo, Finland as part of a drive to dispose of non-core assets.

"We are evaluating different options for non-core parts, such as real estate holdings, and that includes the headquarters," spokeswoman Maija Taimi told Reuters.

The glass and steel building by the Baltic Sea is valued at 200-300 million euros ($259-388 million), according to a report by Finnish newspaper Iltasanomat.

Nokia, which has been trying to improve its finances through large job cuts and other measures, told investors in July it was it was also looking to sell properties.

saip
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby saip » 04 Oct 2012 15:42

OK. Guys I found the problem. I called the customer service and he told me 'roaming you are not connecting, sir' which I took it to mean that if I am roaming I wont be able connect to their data plan. We went back and forth and he kept repeating it. Finally I took a chance and asked if he can do anything. He said 'I will give you settings, Sir'. In AP it is TATADOCOMO.Internet and here it is TATA.DOCOMO.Internet. Now I am happy and will back home tonight. In Mamammlapuram the coverage is spotty and kept connecting to IDEA. Here in Chennai it is OK.

BTW what is wrong with Chennai taxi drivers? They dont speak english anymore? The hotel arranged two taxis for me and neither of the drivers spoke any English that I understood!

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Ardeshir » 04 Oct 2012 16:06

Any idea how much Fruit Company or Mickey$ or Chacha and the likes would require a company to pay up, so as to include an app as pre-installed on their respective OSs (mobile and/or desktop)? It's real estate on the screen after all!
For example, if Kitab-e-chehra were to be pre-installed as an app in iOS, how much would they have paid Fruit? How do both sides of the table monetize?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 04 Oct 2012 16:57

thanks saip and Marten.. for your inputs.

now, I am ruling out tata photons.
it is between airtel vs. reliance now I have to think.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 04 Oct 2012 18:37

It might be useful information to many.

only one company responded to me in detail:

Dear <BR_Handle name="SaiK" comments="changed the actual name"/>,

This is with reference to your e-mail dated October 04, 2012 regarding 3G dongle.

Reliance has launched 3G Services successfully in Assam and NE, Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkata, Punjab, Rajasthan, Jammu and Kashmir, Jharkhand, Bihar, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh (Hoshangabad), West Bengal and Himachal Pradesh.

3G services are available with GSM services, the features of 3G services are you can access high speed Mobile Internet, Mobile TV, enhanced R World Features, Video Call & Video portal services.

3G stand for the third generation of mobile technology.
It is used in the GSM service and is available for both Prepaid and Postpaid connection.
A 3G user will be able to enjoy high Internet speed on his mobile phone, laptop and computer.
It will also allow the user to make video calls, watch live TV, play multi player games, shop online & access many other applications.Data speeds on 3G can go up to as high as 21Mbps, depending on the handset and network available.
3G+ & 3.5G are terms used by operators providing speeds higher than 384kbps.

3G Networks can be of the following types:

WCDMA (Wide band Code Division Multiple Access) - up to 384kbps
HSDPA (High Speed Down link Packet Access) - download speeds can vary as under, depending on handset capacity: 1.8Mbps, 3.6Mbos, 7.2Mbps, 14.4Mbps and go up to 28 Mbps.
HSUPA (High Speed Up link Packet Access) - Is an enhancement of HSDPA, wherein Upload speeds can go up to 5.76Mbps.
HSPA (High Speed Packet Access) - Supports increased peak data rates of up to 21Mbps download and 5.8Mbps upload.

Reliance does not promote any other particular handsets. However some of the good 3G phones in the Nokia category are N8, C7, C5, X6 etc. depending on the range of budget.

In Android category - Samsung Galaxy S, Galaxy 5, LG Optimums, Sony Ericsson Xperia are good phones that support 3G.

In Blackberry - Blackberry tour /Bold etc ere good phones supporting 3G.

If you have a 3G phone, you will see a small symbol on your phone. This symbol is usually a small '3G' sign on the upper left corner of your screen. Depending on the handset, it can also appear as '3.5G' or '3G+' if you are in areas with faster speed coverage.

Further, you may visit your nearest Reliance Mobile Store along with your relevant documents. One of our executives will assist you better in this regard.

Find the details of documents required for subscription mentioned below:

If you want to submit both of Identity & address proof at one go, then you can submit any one from the list below:

Passport
Arms License
Driving License
Photo Identity card having address
Election Commission ID card
Any Other document containing photograph includes
Ration card with photo address applicable for person whose photo is affixed
Central Government Health Scheme (CGHS/Ex-Servicemen Contributory Health Scheme (ECHS) card
Certificate of Address having photo issued by MP/MLA/Group A Gazetted Officer in letter head
Certificate of Address with photo from government recognized educational institutions (For Students only)
Certificate of Address having photo, issued by village panchayat head (for rural areas)

If you want to submit separate document for identity and for address then the options available are-

For Identity

Income Tax PAN Card
Photo credit card

For Address

Ration card
Water Bill (Not older than last months)
Telephone bill of fixed line (Not older than last 3 months)
Electricity Bill of state company (Not older than last 3 months)
Income Tax assessment order
Vehicle registration certificate
Registered Sale/Lease Agreement

If the proof of identity also carries the right address then no separate proof of address is required. You need to carry the original proof of identity and address so that the photocopy can be duly attested at the outlet.

To find out more details about the recharge, please logon to our website http://www.rcom.co.in.

The list of Reliance Mobile Stores, 3G coverage and 3G Dongle specifications are attached herewith for your ready reference.

Assuring you of our best services always.

Regards,

Amit Gadge
Customer Care
Reliance Communications Limited

For further details, you can visit our website http://www.rcom.co.in or write to us at netconnect.broadband@relianceada.com.

You can also call Reliance Customer Care at *355, 30335555 & 1800-3000-5555. You can view your bills and make payments online through http://myservices.relianceada.com for all RCOM services. Please register yourself on the portal. For difficulties in registration, please write to myservices@relianceada.com.

"NOTICE: Please note that your message will not be delivered if it exceeds the size limit of 5 MB per mail (including attachments). Requesting you to please create a shorter message (including attachments) with size less than or equal to the allowed mail limit in all your future communication.

The information provided is based on prevailing terms and conditions of the company, which, are subject to change without prior notice. This electronic message transmission contains information from Reliance Communications & is confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, beware that any disclosure, copy distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received the electronic transmission in error please notify us immediately.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SwamyG » 04 Oct 2012 19:27

Raja Bose wrote:SG mian, you need to define what is a smart phone since you are the one singing it's paens bhajan style - at least know what it is that you are praising so loudly :lol:

It is not about pricing at a premium or fooling customers - it is about making design decisions which lead to feature creep and this feature creep leaves the device unable to perform its fundamental function at the same level of efficiency as it used to before.

Na na na Nah. Here is what you said, that prompted me to show you the other side of the story.

viewtopic.php?p=1345343#p1345343
Raja Bose wrote:Smartphones are more toys than communication devices right now.


Kool-aid, bhajan.... wonder what next you are going to come up with. Boss, all these hi-funda words like feature creep (future creep), fundamental function, form factor, usability, efficiency ityadi are fine and dandy for Dronacharyas and Sukracharyas. For the aam junta, it boils down to what they can do with a device. Does it help them or get in their way - is what matters. If the benefits, even the perceived ones, outweigh the inconveniences; then you will find customers buying the products.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 04 Oct 2012 21:16

Prasant wrote:Any idea how much Fruit Company or Mickey$ or Chacha and the likes would require a company to pay up, so as to include an app as pre-installed on their respective OSs (mobile and/or desktop)? It's real estate on the screen after all!
For example, if Kitab-e-chehra were to be pre-installed as an app in iOS, how much would they have paid Fruit? How do both sides of the table monetize?


In massa usually these are carrier driven deals. In case of iPhunwa, the deals are with Fruit Co. but the payment is rarely about cash upfront (fixed cash component if any is tiny). Rather it is about data sharing and perhaps revenue sharing (latter one is tricky as the question is, who drives sales for whom).

SwamyG wrote:Na na na Nah. Here is what you said, that prompted me to show you the other side of the story.


What prompted me to ask you whether you can define a smartphone, is becoz from "your other side of the story" it is not clear whether you even realize that the benefits of a smartphone being touted by you are actually not unique to a smartphone and a lesser specc'ed mobile phone can do the task just as well without the endurance issues. We have done multiple large scale deployments (I am talking in scales of 500K - 1 million devices per deployment) in various emerging economics (including where your relative might be trying to make a buck) and the evidence is pretty stark.

SG mian, just becoz you got your 1st experience of a highway by driving in a Ferrari doesn't mean you need a Ferrari to drive on a highway. :mrgreen:

SwamyG wrote:Kool-aid, bhajan.... wonder what next you are going to come up with. Boss, all these hi-funda words like feature creep (future creep), fundamental function, form factor, usability, efficiency ityadi are fine and dandy for Dronacharyas and Sukracharyas. For the aam junta, it boils down to what they can do with a device. Does it help them or get in their way - is what matters. If the benefits, even the perceived ones, outweigh the inconveniences; then you will find customers buying the products.


Sigh....with such thinking prevalent amongst experienced injineers who develop premium products for kasht-mars, no wonder we have companies who have no clue why Fruit Co. succeeds and they don't, despite shitty maps, crappy antenna and purple hues due to camera lens. What these companies and their experienced injineers try to do is the equivalent of what Anujan-ullah stated earlier, emulating Einstein's genius by having a shock of hair and cheating on one's wife. :lol:

Boss, all these so-called high-funda words are actual practices applied to design the devices which the customers are supposed to find useful. Read up on the subject sometime, surprising that you are not even aware of their practical applications. And get out of your urban cities to see why the rest of the world cannot use those chi-chi smartphones yet. Toys are useful for consumers in relatively affluent economies, not so much for consumers in poorer economies. The consumers in the latter economies aspire to own the rich man's toys but currently owning one after emptying their savings doesn't provide them a good value proposition. When your sole link to the world is your phone and you use it for your daily livelihood and communication, you don't have the luxury of using a device which allows you to play Angry Birds in Retina resolution but lasts less than a day without charging. And so the "smartphone" remains a toy.

Mort Walker
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 21:31

SaiK wrote:thanks saip and Marten.. for your inputs.

now, I am ruling out tata photons.
it is between airtel vs. reliance now I have to think.



Take a look at Airtel and Idea. I think those two *may* be your best bet in desh.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby nachiket » 04 Oct 2012 21:54

Marten mian, the Galaxy Nexus is better than all the others you mentioned. HTC OneX and GSIII are better but more expensive. Nexus is better value for money.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 04 Oct 2012 22:44

Boss, all these so-called high-funda words are actual practices applied to design the devices which the customers are supposed to find useful. Read up on the subject sometime, surprising that you are not even aware of their practical applications. And get out of your urban cities to see why the rest of the world cannot use those chi-chi smartphones yet. Toys are useful for consumers in relatively affluent economies, not so much for consumers in poorer economies. The consumers in the latter economies aspire to own the rich man's toys but currently owning one after emptying their savings doesn't provide them a good value proposition. When your sole link to the world is your phone and you use it for your daily livelihood and communication, you don't have the luxury of using a device which allows you to play Angry Birds in Retina resolution but lasts less than a day without charging. And so the "smartphone" remains a toy.


One man's toy is another man's tool. Battery life of 12 hours is sufficient at this point, sure we would like more, but for now it works since we have access to power. My family and I with our busy schedule use "smart phones" extensively. With various events with the kids, we schedule everything using Google Calendar and set up dates and alarms to remind each other - it helps if it shows conflicts with workplace meetings and events. It seamlessly integrates on to our desk top environment. SHQ keeps track of me using Google Latitude to make sure I'm not up to nefarious activities (such as associating with Lalmullah's MILFs). She loves it and can't be without it :)

If we compare ourselves to consumers in poorer economies, then we shouldn't be here on BRF either, but we are here.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby nachiket » 05 Oct 2012 00:15

Marten wrote:Nachiket, it doesn't seem to be officially launched in India. Love the specs. Was hoping to get some friend to grab both the tab and phone but no one seems to be travelling at the moment. :-(

Yeah forgot about that. Scumbag Sammy didn't launch it there. The S3 and HTC One X are available for 35k on Flipkart. Best Android phones currently. The Galaxy S2 I9100 is for 25k. But that comes with 2.3 Gingerbread out of the box. It is upgradeable to 4.0 and 4.1 though. The HTC One S is also available for 28k. It's smaller, so may easier to use for your SHQ.


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