Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

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Adrija
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Adrija »

Govt support is needed for something like 15 years! Tax breaks, duty waivers on imported machinery etc . Land, water , power, roads , communication hubs, also needs to be in place.
but is setting up a fab the right thing to do at this stage, or are we better off doing some other basic building blocks first?

India is not set up to build up a something like a Huawei or even a Samsung (both of which were effectively state-sponsored capitalism in different garbs)..........so what is the best route for us? Something which involves fostering the ecosystem without necessarily picking up individual players....

BTW, just so that we are clear, I am not denying the necessity of government support in setting up a fab, just wanted to get your views on what the correct sequencing should be....once an enabling ecosystem is built then hopefully there will be more than one player to build a fab and then the government can ideally come up with the appropriate policies/ support mechanisms...
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by member_20292 »

Adrija wrote:
Govt support is needed for something like 15 years! Tax breaks, duty waivers on imported machinery etc . Land, water , power, roads , communication hubs, also needs to be in place.
but is setting up a fab the right thing to do at this stage, or are we better off doing some other basic building blocks first?
I think, we can start by lifting the limits on the number of people a plant can hire and fire in the garment industry....
Singha
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

futuristic soothing motion sensing+holographic+tiled UI vision from microsoft office group. a linkedin recruiter for their IDC sent me.
I am going to show it to my son as a example of the UIs their gen will enjoy using

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cNdhOKwi0

watch in HD, with sound.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by kmkraoind »

XKeyscore: NSA tool collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet' - theguardian

The article is worth reading in full.

Really scary. Now I understand why Congress (unlike IG's period) is so obedient to US in this Internet era.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

GOTUS has complete and full details on what our netas and industrialists have stashed abroad and how they access it.

it is indeed scary that a persons political views or hobbies may result in him / her being slowly tagged by automatic sw as a person of interest - so increased security checks on flights , tax audits, subtle pressure like making it harder for him to get work or credit.....they can always find some hook to hang their hat on if they want to target someone.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:
Mort Walker wrote: I don't think you understand. Go back and read your own post. You stated SV is ahead of other areas and then sited startups.
Yes in context of ITvity....go and read the post again yourself and while you are at it, read the title of this thread. Does it say "Oil & Gas" anywhere? We have a separate Oil & Gas thread on BRF if you are so interested, this ain't it. Kyon super comprehension man ka re-incarnation banne ke chakkar mein lage ho, tau ji?

Pyaare,

This dhaaga isn't exclusively in the context of ITvity. I am not disputing the importance of s/w, it is the most important part of any modern day electronic or electromechanical device. But we are talking about all of the stuff that goes into making all of our khilonas (Gizmos). Now that said, the discussion went off topic about localities outside of SV, schools, etc. I simply stated an example of O&G as a startup industry. If you want to exclusively consider s/w or ITvity, then there is another dhaaga for that too.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Jo aapki marzi maharaj - aapke bhar-poor gyaan aur TFTA intelligence se kaun debate kar sakta hai bhala? :roll: Bas Sanku maharaj ki tarah dimaag chaatna band karo tau.

Aur admins se kaho dhaaga ka naam Phone, Tablet aur Oil Rig bana denge, aapko santusht rakhne ke liye. :P
Last edited by Raja Bose on 01 Aug 2013 22:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Suraj »

The computer savvy of our present gen netas, except for the likes of Tharoor, may be being significantly overestimated.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Raja Bose wrote:Aur admins se kaho dhaaga ka naam Phone, Tablet aur Oil Rig bana denge, aapko santusht rakhne ke liye.
Nahi. Aap ko kush rakhne ki liya dhaaga should be renamed: Commoditized Consumer Electronics Discussion
After all, nothing else related to gizmos is important. :roll:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Phone, Tablets are Consumer Electronics and this specific thread was started by Dileep for discussion of CE devices and associated stuff - go to archived Nukkad if your memory is failing you. Seriously dude, what are you smoking? Its not Sunday yet when I typically spot you posting nonsense on BRF. :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Jab aap ki taraf discussion nahi jatha hai tho gussa kyon ho jathay ho?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

New Panasonic 4/3 GX7 is out, though price is high at $1100 with kit lens:

Image
Raja Bose
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Jab aap ki taraf discussion nahi jatha hai tho gussa kyon ho jathay ho?
Arrey tau hum aap pe gussa kyon hongay....humari aukaat itni kahan plus aapki kinchai karne mein humay accha entertainment value milta hai. :P Magar aap agar inane arguments karogay to GPL to dena padega. The forum has separate threads organized by topic for a reason, don't you think?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Perhaps our backgrounds are different and approach to the same problem/issue are done differently. Hum tho chotay motay duffer ingineyar hain, aur aap baare paise walae ho. Jab SV ka housing prices dekh ke haamari phaat jathi hai! :)
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Aapke saamne hum kya, bade bade maharathi bhi chotay-motay chirkut hain. Isi liye to request kar rahe thay ki aapke hi-fi wisdom se humko baksh dijiye! :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

The Moto X phone looks like a bust to me. A mid-range phone for $200 on contract and customization features are exclusive to ATT only. I was hoping for an unlocked version for $300.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Moto X finally official: Motorola X8, 4.7-inch 720p AMOLED, custom finishes, assembled in the USA from $199

Image

720p in a 4.7 inch display....tsk...tsk....what will the spec Nazis say now? :mrgreen:
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SaiK »

Here's a rundown on the specs so you can judge for yourself:

•Android 4.2.2 Jelly Bean
•4.7-inch 720p (1,280 by 720 pixels) OLED screen
•Qualcomm S4 Pro 1.7GHz dual-core processor
•Adreno 320 quad-core graphics
•16GB and 32GB storage options (depends on carriers)
•Connectivity: Bluetooth 4.0, USB 2.0, 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi, GPS, NFC, nano-SIM card slot
•Camera: 10-megapixel "Clear Pixel" RGBC sensor and LED flash
•2,200 mAh embedded battery
•3.5mm headphone jack
•"Touchless Control," or voice commands for initiating calls, checking weather, getting directions, etc. (Operates similarly to Glass with "OK, Google" commands)
•Available in black or white if customers forgo personalization
Last edited by SaiK on 02 Aug 2013 01:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

^^^Yeah, it's a bust. Waiting for the 5.7" Sammy Note 3, Sony Honami and Nexus 5.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

If they had made it as a stock Android onlee device available for $199.- on contract, then it would have made a big difference. Just claiming ZOMG!!! this device is only going to have a smaller amount of carrier bloat compared to other Android phunwas may not cut it. iPhunwa/WPee don't have that high level of carrier bloat from the get-go. There is a Google Play stock Android version of Moto X but that is probably going to be off-contract pricing of $600+ which means most people wont buy it or even consider it.

I wonder if they are using the same embedded speech reco engine (on Wolfson or tensilica core) in Moto X which Chacha was looking at for Chashma?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Android 4.3 is out on all Nexus devices now. I know it's been pushed to Nexus 10, 7 (old+new), Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 4. So I don't know why the Moto X is coming out with 4.2.2?

The carriers will put bloat on the thing though. :(
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

That is mainly due to carrier's approval process for the device...Moto cant just slap on a new version in time for launch.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

Which speech recognition engine is Goog using on the Nexus 4?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Its their own cloud based one. I am not talking about that one but the one which detects the trigger phrase "ok Google Now". That is typically a silicon based solution.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Mort Walker »

On the Nexus phone, you say "Google" which is the trigger.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

Is it always listening like Moto X?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Neela »

Adrija wrote:
Govt support is needed for something like 15 years! Tax breaks, duty waivers on imported machinery etc . Land, water , power, roads , communication hubs, also needs to be in place.
but is setting up a fab the right thing to do at this stage, or are we better off doing some other basic building blocks first?

India is not set up to build up a something like a Huawei or even a Samsung (both of which were effectively state-sponsored capitalism in different garbs)..........so what is the best route for us? Something which involves fostering the ecosystem without necessarily picking up individual players....

BTW, just so that we are clear, I am not denying the necessity of government support in setting up a fab, just wanted to get your views on what the correct sequencing should be....once an enabling ecosystem is built then hopefully there will be more than one player to build a fab and then the government can ideally come up with the appropriate policies/ support mechanisms...
Adrija,

That is a tough question. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say we should start off with a 8" Fab (like the one on SCL) which targets non-govt entities. .
- There are still lots of products that can run on 8" fabs and companies always like backup fabs to reduce risk to supply chains.
- The investment is not as high as a 12" fab.
- The cost of production for companies is also less.
- Once we have that running for a few years and a name is established, 12" fabs can come up.
That will serve as a training ground for personnel and they can move into 12" fabs seamlessly.
Once you have trained personnel, infrstructure,companies like TSMC and UMC would think about coming in.

BTW something caught my eye: SCL produces a Ultrasonic Liquid Level Sensor for space applications. I am pretty sure such a product will cost an arm and a leg in the US. If SCL can commoditize it for commericail applications, it would be far cheaper. And this was what I was referring to earlier. It takes one or two products like this from some entrepreneurs which is designed and manufactured in India to open the gates for others to take risk. There are enough expats working in the US alone who would consider this.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Adrija »

^^Thanks Neela
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

motorola has probably withdrawn from retail phone sales in india but the moto X gets good marks from gizmodo
http://www.gizmodo.in/software/Moto-X-H ... 539450.cms
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by SaiK »

wasn't iphone-wa planning a 1080p screen?
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

would the diff between a 720p or 1080p screen be very obvious on a 4.7" or 5" screen? moto is saying it wont be noticeable and going with battery life on moto X.
the maker of its new low light capable camera sensor has revealed a few specs
http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/01/omni ... de-moto-x/

intensive focus group study it seems has shown moto mainstream users are happy with 4.7" .... personally I find even the 4.3" on the lumia820 as acceptable...works fine for email and music service.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

I hate anything above a 3.9" screen - HTF do you carry the darn thing during runs without the slab feeling distracting. Most fuel belts can barely fit the iPhunwa, leave alone these tablet sized behemoths which are called phones today.

People cannot discern difference between 720p and 1080p screen rest of the things being equal in double blind testing. Problem is these tech journos and bloggers are so biased that they will complain about lack of 1080p display on one while claiming it doesn't make a difference in another. Just like the megapixel count is fairly useless as a comparison parameter in most cases, same is the case with raw resolution. Too many other factors dominate the display experience over resolution - viewing angles, colour saturation, rendering techniques for fonts/graphics, gamut.......these are just simplifications and in reality there are like close to at least ~150 parameters which must be tweaked and traded off against. All this obsession with Retina, PPI BS business was all triggered by the Mahdi and the lapped up by the rest of the world (no wonder he is The Mahdi :mrgreen: ).
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Singha »

I am expecting some japanese wildcat operator like panasonic or sony to release a 4K cellphone in home market soon :mrgreen: sending gizmodo and engadget fanboys into a paroxysm of rage and jealousy and picking on the "cheap plastic" casing of the japani toys in revenge

all touch keybds do not seem to be equal. I am yet to make a single mistake in wife's lumia, while making tons on the default android kbd of my samsung.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by pradeepe »

Adrija wrote:
Govt support is needed for something like 15 years! Tax breaks, duty waivers on imported machinery etc . Land, water , power, roads , communication hubs, also needs to be in place.
but is setting up a fab the right thing to do at this stage, or are we better off doing some other basic building blocks first?

India is not set up to build up a something like a Huawei or even a Samsung (both of which were effectively state-sponsored capitalism in different garbs)..........so what is the best route for us? Something which involves fostering the ecosystem without necessarily picking up individual players....

BTW, just so that we are clear, I am not denying the necessity of government support in setting up a fab, just wanted to get your views on what the correct sequencing should be....once an enabling ecosystem is built then hopefully there will be more than one player to build a fab and then the government can ideally come up with the appropriate policies/ support mechanisms...
My personal opinion is that while a fab would be great (A 300mm wafer fab & 40nm tech would be perfect for most of Indias needs to support a home grown ASIC ecosystem).
A better ecosystem to develop would be Assembly and Test. Complete ASAT services. Much more within our reach in a measurable timescale and requires smaller investments to begin with. There are a few small players already in this space in Chennai and Bangalore. Once this becomes a policy imperative with sustained government support, we could definitely chow down on what now goes towards Malaysia and Taiwan. Yes a fab would be sexier.

Intel was never serious about a fab in India. They did eval an assembly setup though. In the end it went to Vietnam I think. The only place outside US and Israel where Intel has a fab is in Dalian, China. I think this is more to do with China arm twisting Intel into doing it. It was an older gen fab. Not sure what it produces.

The fabcity in Hyd is the biggest real estate scam there ever was. On top of it there was a semi serious interest again a few years ago, but greed just killed it. They wanted ~5000acres! Intels fab28 in Israel churning out cutting edge 22nm wafers is ~15-20 acres IIRC. And we wanted 5000 acres! God knows for what.
Last edited by pradeepe on 02 Aug 2013 21:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by pradeepe »

Raja Bose wrote:Its their own cloud based one. I am not talking about that one but the one which detects the trigger phrase "ok Google Now". That is typically a silicon based solution.
I think on-die silicon Voice Activity Detection (VAD) and then VAD triggered keyword recognition backed by a full blown cloud based Speech Recognition engine.

There is a co in India, 3i logic systems working on embeddable SR IP.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

The WindowsPhone keyboard is the best I have seen till now and might even be slightly better than the iOS one....iOS soft keyboard set the standard. The Android stock keyboard kinda always sucked.....I make tons of mistakes on my N7 :x
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Raja Bose »

pradeepe wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:Its their own cloud based one. I am not talking about that one but the one which detects the trigger phrase "ok Google Now". That is typically a silicon based solution.
I think on-die silicon Voice Activity Detection (VAD) and then VAD triggered keyword recognition backed by a full blown cloud based Speech Recognition engine.

There is a co in India, 3i logic systems working on embeddable SR IP.
Not just voice activity, I think they are doing the keyword trigger recognition on chip....you can't do cloud based stuff for this....latency is too high.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by pradeepe »

Yes, keyword recognition is definitely on chip. Full blown SR in the cloud.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by Vayutuvan »

Tried the latest sammy whatchamacallit 5" android phone at the store. incredibly underwhelming UX (is it user experience?). sticky multi-touch response - immediately tried iphone 5. sammy has to go far in the smooth as chiluku dept.
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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Post by nachiket »

Why does the Moto X have an OLED screen? I thought only Sammy was obsessed with those. IPS LCD screens almost always look better than a comparable OLED. Just put a Sammy S3 or S4 next to the equivalent HTC device and you'll immediately see the difference.
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