Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Mort Walker » 06 Dec 2013 16:31

^^^But wouldn't that just piss off and alienate corporate clientele who need Windows for everything else they do? IMHO, it is too early for desktop and mobile OSes to merge. I think many large entities will remain on Windows 7 for the foreseeable future. Some of us will use XP SP3 all the way to the end of April 2014.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 06 Dec 2013 22:27

Convergence doesn't mean slapping the same UI on all categories of devices - that would be incredibly naive. Windows Mobile was not an example of convergence becoz under the hood it was a totally different OS than the vanilla Windows. Just becoz Mickey in its idiocy decided to slap the same UI with start button complete into a phone doesn't make them "converged" any more than me slapping a prancing horse logo on my car makes it a Ferrari with a V12 engine.

Convergence here implies what is done at a systems level. What Mickey has done now is converged the OS under the hood - they just have 2 flavors: one for ARM, one for x86, that's it. And the differentiation is abstracted away before it gets to the app level. In terms of UI convergence, I don't see that universally happening. The WIMP desktop is not going anywhere given how used to people are to that UI model - its the UI analogue of a QWERTY keyboard basically, it works well and is hard to change. The Modern/Metro tile interface works well for phone, tablet, TV and car but not for desktop and that's probably going to be true in the future unless the app usage model changes significantly.

Bing:Mickey::Google+:Chacha in terms of strat-e-jee, plain and zimble onlee.

Selling off XBox would be the stupidest thing Mickey can do - its amazing that various anal-e-cysts can be piously say that with a straight face :mrgreen: TV is one of the virgin growth areas and thru XBox they already have a pretty solid lead over others both in terms of technology and market. Apple TV is wandering around aimlessly, God knows what the heck Bawarchi thinks he is doing. Google TV was a spectacular failure and a case study in how not to do a product. Samsung is still not a big player despite being such a huge TV manufacturer, mainly due to lack of content deals and relationships. Sony just wants to focus on games and even there they are losing out on exclusive big name titles. On top of that Mickey unlike the other players also makes its own content in terms of games, media etc. - they own like 25 studios just for creating games. With a home advantage in that space and so much growth opportunity, why would one want to throw it away to focus just on PC/tablet/mobile where competition is already way too fierce and its more about protecting one's turf rather than breaking into new opportunities for monetization? :-?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 07 Dec 2013 08:45

Image

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 07 Dec 2013 08:49

Code: Select all

Top Four Operating Systems, Shipments, and Market Share, Q3 2013 (Units in Millions)
Operating System   3Q13 Shipment Volumes (in millions)   3Q13 Market Share   3Q12 Shipment Volumes (in millions)   3Q12 Market Share   Year-Over-Year Change
Android   211.6   81.0%   139.9   74.9%   51.3%
iOS   33.8   12.9%   26.9   14.4%   25.6%
Windows Phone   9.5   3.6%   3.7   2.0%   156.0%
BlackBerry   4.5   1.7%   7.7   4.1%   -41.6%
Others   1.7   0.6%   8.4   4.5%   -80.1%
Total   261.1   100.0%   186.7   100.0%   39.9%
http://www.wired.com/business/2013/11/android-is-our-ms-dos/

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Sriman » 07 Dec 2013 11:09

Any recommendations for a smartphone around Rs 22K? I see Nexus 4 and Lumia 920 at that range. The Nexus is obviously kitted out better, but my sister wants something with either generous space or expandable memory. Anything else i'm missing out on (Nexus 5 will be an overkill). The budget can be stretched a little.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Anujan » 07 Dec 2013 11:31

Used Moto G. It is unbelievable what they crammed in for $170. It feels and looks better than my galaxy nexus. Only downer is that they didnt add a SD card option.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby nachiket » 07 Dec 2013 11:34

anmol wrote:Did you install 8.1 upgrade?(it allows more than two Modern apps)

And I guess we are supposed to be impressed with that? Windows already has the ability to run dozens of programs (apps if you like) side by side and switch between them pretty easily. Then they come up with this new fangled UI that looks and feels horrible on desktop that can run only two. Now the ability to run more than two is touted as an improvement. So what exactly did I, as a Laptop user gain because of the new UI on Win 8? I'm still searching for an answer. The fact that it looks the same as the interface on my Phone or Tablet means nothing to me when I'm trying to remember what swiping from the left on the trackpad does as opposed to swiping from the right.

I think Anujanullah needs to create a 14-step Windows fanboy cycle to complement his 14-step Apple fanboy cycle. :lol:

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby nachiket » 07 Dec 2013 11:41

Raja Bose wrote:Convergence doesn't mean slapping the same UI on all categories of devices - that would be incredibly naive. Windows Mobile was not an example of convergence becoz under the hood it was a totally different OS than the vanilla Windows. Just becoz Mickey in its idiocy decided to slap the same UI with start button complete into a phone doesn't make them "converged" any more than me slapping a prancing horse logo on my car makes it a Ferrari with a V12 engine.

Convergence here implies what is done at a systems level. What Mickey has done now is converged the OS under the hood - they just have 2 flavors: one for ARM, one for x86, that's it. And the differentiation is abstracted away before it gets to the app level. In terms of UI convergence, I don't see that universally happening. The WIMP desktop is not going anywhere given how used to people are to that UI model - its the UI analogue of a QWERTY keyboard basically, it works well and is hard to change. The Modern/Metro tile interface works well for phone, tablet, TV and car but not for desktop and that's probably going to be true in the future unless the app usage model changes significantly.

Agree with the second part, but slapping the same UI on all devices is exactly what Mickey tried to do with Win 8 again. They went out of their way to stop people from booting to desktop or adding the Start button using third party mods that had come out during the early days. Eventually they had to relent on the Boot to desktop which they added in 8.1. Changing the UI without improving the UX (your favorite word :P ) is absolutely useless. With WM, they didn't change the UI when they should have, with Win 8 (desktop) they changed it when there was no need to.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 07 Dec 2013 20:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance
Not a single indic venture... this is going to be do or die for indics.. mobile innovation and media platform is where india is lagging way behind.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 07 Dec 2013 22:48

nachiket wrote:With WM, they didn't change the UI when they should have, with Win 8 (desktop) they changed it when there was no need to.


That's absolutely correct - they should not have changed the UI for Win8 on desktop or rather not added the Modern/Metro shell and just kept the desktop onlee. The user's ability to handle multiple apps visible at the same time is driven by cognitive load and that in turn for PCs/tablets/phones/TV is a function of 2 things:
1) Display size
2) Role of device - is it being used in a consumption oriented role or creation oriented role?

When it comes to display size, smaller displays such as phones (<= 7 inch) dictate that users see 1 app at a time onlee so your app is always shown full screen. Slightly larger displays (9 - 11 inch) such as tablets actually make it comfortable for users to see 2 apps at the same time but not more - this is what Mickey got right with it's snap mode while FruitCo didn't. Even larger displays such as what we have on our laptops and desktops make it comfortable for users to see multiple apps at the same time - say you have a notepad open, along with a calculator and a browser and you are figuring out and making notes on how much mortgage you might have to pay based on latest rates.

Now there comes an interesting discontinuity....does that mean for even larger displays such as TVs the same trend holds and its OK to make visible tons of apps simultaneously? Nope. For TVs, users are comfortable with seeing at most 2 apps/windows at the same time. If you recall many years ago TV manufacturers use to advertise the ability to view a gazillion programme windows open on their TV at the same time. Consumers pissed on it like NLI wetting their shalwars, precisely for this reason. Which is why Win8 on XBox despite being the same x86 version as the PC one, doesn't have a desktop and has the 2 app snap mode onlee.

Which brings out (2) - Role of the device. For devices in consumption oriented role regardless of display size, users are comfortable with at most 2 apps viewable at the same time. This is why users are not OK with TVs showing the same number of windows as their desktop PCs. However, for devices which also have a significant creation oriented role such as a PC, the ability to allow multiple windows/apps viewable at the same time is a must. The reason is simple - the user is not focusing on multiple apps at the same time but rather needs the ability to switch their focus back and forth between the multiple visible apps. Most of mango abduls' brains are not equipped with photographic memory hence when you context switch in a manner where 1 app disappears from view while the other app foregrounds, state info from the previous app disappears or becomes fuzzy. So in a creation oriented role, say the notepad-calculator-browser example, if all I allow is 1 fullscreen app at a time or 2 apps at a time onlee, I am forcing the user to context switch in a very inefficient way where they have to rely on their own brain's memory to store the state info between contexts and they suck at that. Hence, the need to use the display of the device as a visual memory store which allows a abdul to switch between the browser, calculator and notepad to research, calculate and take notes about his mortgage payments without missing a beat.

So when designing the UX you have to first look at the display size as primary constraint and then the device role as secondary constraint.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 07 Dec 2013 23:03

Moto G is a great phone when compared with other Android phones at that price point but is it competitive against the likes of Lumia 620? Moto G is in line with Larry babu's plan for Motor Oil which is making cheap phones rather than high-end.

Now inside Moto G there is a big fat IC with no markings, hiding under a Mu metal shield....I wonder what that is :mrgreen:

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Dec 2013 02:29

Guys, I have an overhead projector in media room mounted on the ceiling. Would chromecast be a good option for using it as the output device to project onto the screen? I am not sure whether I have an HDMI as the projector - a Sony one - was installed in 2005. I am not planning to replace (other than the bulb which by itself would be almost $300) it as that would be a couple of thousands or more.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 08 Dec 2013 02:47

matrimc.. i am also researching into buying a projector... the bulb cost is one factor, and looking for LED as bulb technology ones.. not sure if there is enough powered one and reliable one in the market.

regarding chromecast..does it even support many apps guys? only hulu or netflix perhaps... why do need one? why can't you directly hook it up to your PC hdmi out? what is the cable distance we are talking?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Dec 2013 03:22

It is mounted on the ceiling and I gave to deal with the cable going from laptop to the projector which would be inconvinient to say the least. With ipadminis in the pipeline I would like to use them as the remotes. My current universal remote which costed me 175 in 2005 is ok but not that great. Also kids are making noises about subbing to Netflix. Moi not very thrilled as their homework might take a hit. As it SHQ complains about how much time our younger one spends on playing minecraft. He gets good grades but I would like to ween him away from minecraft so that he can explore serious but fun stuff like robotics and/or science projects.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 08 Dec 2013 08:15

^^^It may work if your projector has HDMI in but you will also need to have wall power close by to plug in the Chromecast dongle's power adapter (I am assuming your projector doesn't have a non-OTG USB port which can supply power).

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Dec 2013 08:56

RB, power to the projector is coming out of an outlet on the ceiling. If it is only one outlet, I will attach a multiple plug. Looks like I can work it out. So, what are the pros/cons vis-a-vis Android Stick (specifically the one that can boot Ubuntu)? Would you know?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 08 Dec 2013 09:22

here if you are not willing to wire it up.. shell out 185 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Wireles ... B005L9ZZ32

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Dec 2013 09:36

pandyan wrote:the advantage: chrome-caste ties up another computer/tablet to stream the content...whereas the above whacky solution is all in one.
or why not pull a long hdmi cable out?


Pandyan, HDMI cable cannot exceed 6', is that right? and talking about the costs - a monster HDMI (with Au plated and bling) would cost more than a chromecast dongle (looks like - not compared the prices but one of the reviews on Amazon is making this point). As for "chrome-caste ties up another computer/tablet to stream the content", my understanding from what I read is that it is exactly the opposite - in fact one can start the streaming and chromecast will go to the cloud and start streaming from the source URL and the device (in my case it is going to be an ipadmini) will be free to browse other content through chrome tabs (?). Not that I would want to browse BRF while I am completely engrossed in a movie but my kids are different matter - they can walk and chew gum at the same time (IOW they can compute curvature while listening the the latest Lady Gaga :lol:).

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 08 Dec 2013 09:42

SaiK wrote:here if you are not willing to wire it up.. shell out 185 bucks.
http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Wireles ... B005L9ZZ32

wohi to. That is the rub. Now a days we don't watch much together given the competitive pressures on the kids. Not sure if spending 185 is worth it. Might do it though considering the content available on the i'net.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 08 Dec 2013 11:14

matrimc wrote:RB, power to the projector is coming out of an outlet on the ceiling. If it is only one outlet, I will attach a multiple plug. Looks like I can work it out. So, what are the pros/cons vis-a-vis Android Stick (specifically the one that can boot Ubuntu)? Would you know?


Chromecast is purposed for streaming videos/media content onlee - basically it gets instructions from your PC and then goes and downloads the content from the cloud (using your home's WiFi) and then plays it out via HDMI. Think of it like a rudimentary set top box on a stick. Whereas your Android stick is a general purpose computer running Android (or Ubuntu or whatever OS you put on it). Internals are not all that different between the two so you can technically make a Chromecast dongle out of your Android stick if it supports HDMI out and has the physical connections pulled out on the board to attach a HDMI connector.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 Dec 2013 01:03

Actually there a few android sticks that have hdmi out cost is 50-90 depending on the number of cores and internal memory. One of them has been tested with Ubuntu and they screen shots Of full graphical desktop - no idea whether it is KDE or Gnome.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 09 Dec 2013 01:04

^^^Chromecast is $35 and works out of the box...in those generic $50+ Android sticks you have to hack your own solution.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 02:04

matrimc, if the distance is 15ft.. you can run it behind the walls.. it is easy to do in massa.

or like pandyan says, get a 40? bucks Costco bluray player and slam it near the projection device

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 Dec 2013 03:27

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Chromecast is $35 and works out of the box...in those generic $50+ Android sticks you have to hack your own solution.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Thanks for confirming. Otherwise I would have spent days (if not weeks) to get everything right with all those half-baked FLOSS stuff (:wink: prolly at this point RB is chuckling to himself).

So Chromecast it is - one for the basement and one for the family room. Also, somebody in Amazon review talked about streaming local files to TVs via Chromecast. Looks like a nice and cheap (I am nothing if not that according to my kids) device vis-a-vis the money grubbing and high margin iThingy called Apple TV.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 Dec 2013 03:31

SaiK wrote:matrimc, if the distance is 15ft.. you can run it behind the walls.. it is easy to do in massa.

or like pandyan says, get a 40? bucks Costco bluray player and slam it near the projection device

Running in the wall is not easy from what I can see. I have to tear down the wall, run it, andd patch it up. I am not at all handy with even the simplest of house repairs.

Bluray probably is not a bad idea. Will have to explore as almost all content we would like to watch and have time for is on Blurays which can be had from the local public library for free for a week at a time and can renew three times.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 04:15

there should equipment to get this without too many wall destruction.. some insertion, and wire pull should do the work.. unless you present schematics, I can't imagine. check out with a handyman and see if you can get that done.

have a stud detector.. if there are no horizontal studs, then by gravity, you can drop on the wall side from the ceiling.. ceiling top insertion hole, and the hole at the corner/edge where the wire will drop down 90* and then a hole where you want to tap the wire to your hdmi device. [there are wire hooks that you can guide from hole to hole, and pull the wire attaching to the hooks. copper wires will bend going straight, but not the steel wires with hooks]

so three holes of 6" will do.. and replace the dry wall, put putty, and finish it.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 09 Dec 2013 04:41

^^SaiK, your description makes it sound like Mort-like skills are required, what with studs, pulls, insertions and what not!

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 05:42

now, you are going OT! ;) .. of course mort can do full HD mi without walls.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 06:01

Internet of Things are the next gen market area, along with Cloud computing, especially after wireless tech and gizmos have reached alarming rise, and the cloud computing devices needs are increasing.. so, all devices having an ip address should not be bad idea, and the way it should be done.

I can integrate all devices at home - fans, fridge, washers, et al via wifis.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Anujan » 09 Dec 2013 06:12

Chromecast also has chrome tab mirroring. It can mirror audio and video from a tab of chrome browser on your laptop even if it is fullscreen. My >3 year old macbook pro handles it without dropping frames or audio video sync issues. Now whehether what you are watching on that chrome tab is pirated or not is entirely up to you :mrgreen:

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 Dec 2013 06:39

SaiK, a big yes to IPV6 - but have been waiting for several years onlee not withstanding the number of alarming stories on /. of the imminent demise of IPV4 due to the available addresses going to zero - oh about a week or two.
________________________________________

Anujan, is there a chrome app for iPadmini? Hope so as my brats do not want to share their MBPs with moi or my SHQ. Though the older one wants an MBA before she goes off to college and deigned graciously to donate her MBP to us.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Vayutuvan » 09 Dec 2013 06:40

SaiK, fixing dry walls - ugh. Isn't that black art?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 09 Dec 2013 06:45

^^^also look up Netgear widi dongle.

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 09 Dec 2013 06:50

the big blockers for ipv6 are the isps themselves.. they have this huge switches, content servers (our akamais et al) that NAT over and provide a area coverage via narrower high-bandwidth peering connections via fiber. so, nat-ting is the disrupter for ipv6... mobile space can play a huge role in providing mobile ipv6 address space.. that helps to level play with isps... cause wireless towers are entirely different ball game from isps.

so, me thinks mobile governance should race with ipv6

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 11 Dec 2013 03:50

Fun with 3D printing....so which is the real Google Glass? :mrgreen: (its pretty obvious but still...). The best part is the 3D printed model was made without any measurements/scanning or visual reference of the actual Google Glass, except through eyeball Mk.1.

Image

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby ArmenT » 11 Dec 2013 03:58

^^^
Did you make that? Looks real nice.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is in the Sparkfun box that I see in the picture? Arduino board?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby SaiK » 11 Dec 2013 04:09

how do they do the colors? make them separate and fit it? or the 3d printers can do that as well?

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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Postby Raja Bose » 11 Dec 2013 04:18

ArmenT wrote:^^^
Just to satisfy my curiosity, what is in the Sparkfun box that I see in the picture? Arduino board?


This...

Image

SaiK wrote:how do they do the colors? make them separate and fit it? or the 3d printers can do that as well?


This was done on a Objet Connex 500 printer which does multiple materials at the same time so you don't need to make them separate and do post printing assembly. Otherwise you can print all parts simultaneously on the same tray and then manually assemble it after cleaning. Even cheaper 3D printers (as long at they have 20 microns or higher precision) can print a bicycle chain with all links interlocked and working, right out of the printer - its one of the party tricks their sales people show off.


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Re: Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x0

Postby Mort Walker » 11 Dec 2013 09:49

^^^looks interesting, but no flash, but ok still.

Do you think it will ever see the light of day? Btw, LG 8.3 tablet is now being sold as GPE version on the Play Store. $350.


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