India Border Watch: Security and Operations

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ravip » 10 Oct 2014 21:01

Post deleted for double post
Last edited by ravip on 10 Oct 2014 21:20, edited 1 time in total.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby PratikDas » 10 Oct 2014 21:03

hecky wrote:Image

:x

The Nobel Peace Prize didn't 'embarrass' Obama into abstaining from many wars! Does FirstPost not follow the news?

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ravip » 10 Oct 2014 21:07

deleted for double posts
Last edited by ravip on 10 Oct 2014 21:26, edited 1 time in total.

Rahul Mehta
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2577
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rahul Mehta » 10 Oct 2014 21:11

What would it take to cut water supply to pakistan for 99 years as compensation of violence and property damages inflicted by pakis starting from 1-jan-1946 ---- partition violence, 1948 war, 1965 war, 1971 massacre of Indians in Bangladesh, 1971 war, Kargil war and all this cross border bombing?

====

Any proof that we caused 10 times more damage then we caused on them? Because paidmedia news that we gave beffiting reply isnt reliable. eg when NaMo removed anti-dumping duty on solar panels, the paidmedia didnt link it with the FACT that ADD was removed because China had entered ladakh and China had set removal of ADD as condition for leaving Ladakh. And paidmedia didnt show that China left only after/because China had met the objective of ADD removal.

So any proof that we created 10 times more damage on Pakistan?

I find it hard to believe that we caused even twice more damage. Because only weapons we have used is mortars, which is same as weapons they used. So how can we cause more damage to them, then damage they caused to us?
Last edited by Rahul Mehta on 11 Oct 2014 08:58, edited 1 time in total.

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ravip » 10 Oct 2014 21:18

It is know fact that ambani wants peace between India and pakistan at all cost because the first target in case of escalation will be his petroleum refineries in Punjab and Gujarat. If i am not wrong it was also reported during upa 2 govt that he assured paki gernails that he will invest in pak and further he funded track 2 Rona dhona.

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ravip » 10 Oct 2014 21:24

This was Posted: 29 Aug 2014 12:15
ravip wrote:I don't know whether I am speculating or not.

But seeing the reports I have a strong gut feeling that the recent cease fire violations are an attempt of ethnic cleansing by shelling the areas of jammu which have a majority of sikh & Hindu population or may be this might an attempt to create fear in people or stop the mission 44 of BJP.

This effort of Pakis is getting active political support from the abdullas and other Mulla's , they are trying there best to keep there flock together to resist the mission 44.


pankajs wrote:
Saswati Sarkar ‏@sarkar_swati 44m44 minutes ago

Indian army believes Pak choosing villages for shelling based on the religion of the inhabitants. Hindus targeted http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 73684.aspx …"


I had guessed spot on about paki intentions long back, when they started to feel the heat about mission 44. I am sure the local as well as the central government has to protect minorities otherwise we will have another Kashmir pandit like situation in our hands.

The Paki army knows that the window of opportunity is closing soon so they will do anything to stop the repealing of art. 370.

If the BJP doesn't achieve mission 44, then all they have to do is declare ladhak and Srinagar as separate states. Yes there will be long term consequences in doing so but the immediate target is to destroy the support base and push them to corner. Reduce funds to Kashmir and pump into ladhak and Srinagar, create a situation where kashmiri will migrate to Srinagar and ladhak for work, soon we will see there voice dying out about separate country.

PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby PratikDas » 10 Oct 2014 21:58

I had the Firstpost News app on my phone. 'Had' is the operative word.

vishnua
BRFite
Posts: 216
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 12:31

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishnua » 10 Oct 2014 22:10

Heard from GP on NDTV debate with Burka (on the link posted in the main Paki thread on Strart forum ) that there are approximately 20k to 40k ppl displaced in Pak due this firing.

now the question is what would be next step if I am Paki COAS in terms of Cashmeer ....

I am thinking inside the country .... non state actors...??

2 tests have failed ( Herat and this)

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4464
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby putnanja » 10 Oct 2014 22:26

Did anyone watch Gaurav Sawant's show on Aaj Tak with defence experts?Many in tweeter world saying it was good show and almost everyone agreed on India's strategy

James B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2249
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:23
Location: Samjhautha Express with an IED

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby James B » 10 Oct 2014 22:44

putnanja wrote:Did anyone watch Gaurav Sawant's show on Aaj Tak with defence experts?Many in tweeter world saying it was good show and almost everyone agreed on India's strategy


Absolutely good show - full of former Army men & RAW officer.

Everyone agrees that situation has changed after Modi sarkar came into power.

Gen Malik said that under UPA-1&2, escalation control was totally under civilian control & Army's hand was tied. He also said that now the escalation control is totally given back to the Army/BSF.

Gen Kadiyan said that our bunkers can take direct hit & survive but Pakis bunkers can't & they were destroyed by BSF this time.

Some people also called to kick the cease-fire & also for covert actions. Must watch for all.

This show will warm the cockles of the Jingos.

http://aajtak.intoday.in/karyakram/vide ... 83260.html

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chaanakya » 10 Oct 2014 22:49

It seems NaMo Govt has been able to drive home the message and set boundary conditions for talk and lobbed the ball in Baki court. Bakistani commentators have got the message and they sounded quite sober and rattled by the robust response offered by BSF.

1. K_issue is not on the table
2. Bakis are single so no internationalisation of any bilateral issues

3. Don't mingle with separatists if you have any intention to talk.
4. Keep quite on the border before you open your mouth.

It seems casualty figures are being suppressed by Baki army, both military and civilian. Now they can't talk about their casualties so mostly talking about our casualties. Their biggest friends this side of the border are Track Two Commentators and MSM. Special mention must be made of HT, rrNDTeeVee, AajTak , ABP and CNNIBN I had trouble comprehending if they are Baki News channel, By contrast Hamid Mir of Geo sounded very rational. Bakistani commentators come across very nicely, reasonable and rational person and our commentators were shown in poor light going by the type of counter arguments given. rrNDTeeVee reporter even mentioned that Bakis have given befitting reply to Indian aggression. I was like wtf. I think HT or CNNIBN was talking about if India would be able to contain the fall out of its aggression at the border. These MSM are simply amazing in their moronosity.

James B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2249
Joined: 08 Nov 2008 21:23
Location: Samjhautha Express with an IED

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby James B » 10 Oct 2014 23:02

Also watched Arnab's show. Seshadri Chari of BJP has made some comments which riles up Paki guests on the show. He said that PA's raison-d'etre is hate-india & as long as Pak Army is there, there will be no peace. If it continues likes this India will break Pak into 4 countries like it did in 1971. :twisted:

ravip
BRFite
Posts: 270
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ravip » 10 Oct 2014 23:22

Anything from sheshadri chari these days should not be taken lightly, he is not like any other politician who would speak all sundry and no credible point in the statement. Every word from Mr. Chari has to be taken seriously as he is part of foreign relations and strategic planning of bjp party. During general elections this year he was the person who advocated for change in our nuclear policy and was also implying to test them.

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 11 Oct 2014 01:40

habal wrote:.. To be promoted beyond a Colonel, you have to be a 'climber'. Now being a 'climber' comes with entirely different and parallel skillset as compared to a purely military operations capability. .
I do wonder how FM Maneckshaw, Sundarji, Padmanabhan, VK Singh and others of similar ilk made it to the very top.
50s 60s 70s kee baat alag hain. I am talking of present.[/quote] Habal, I think you are making global conclusions with local data. there might be some rotten apples which have risen up inspite of their poor skills by their connections, but the vast majority of Brigadiers, Maj Gens, Lt Gens and their equivalent in IAF and IN rise up on sheer girt and hard work. IA in particular has been subject to decades of COIN experience which has weeded out a lot of poor officers (as well as good ones)

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4720
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby hanumadu » 11 Oct 2014 02:11

James B wrote:
This show will warm the cockles of the Jingos.

http://aajtak.intoday.in/karyakram/vide ... 83260.html


In the poll asking if pakistan understands only the language of bombs, 99% audience said yes.

Mihaylo
BRFite
Posts: 762
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 21:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mihaylo » 11 Oct 2014 02:11

Shrinivasan wrote:.. To be promoted beyond a Colonel, you have to be a 'climber'. Now being a 'climber' comes with entirely different and parallel skillset as compared to a purely military operations capability. .
I do wonder how FM Maneckshaw, Sundarji, Padmanabhan, VK Singh and others of similar ilk made it to the very top.
50s 60s 70s kee baat alag hain. I am talking of present.[/quote] Habal, I think you are making global conclusions with local data. there might be some rotten apples which have risen up inspite of their poor skills by their connections, but the vast majority of Brigadiers, Maj Gens, Lt Gens and their equivalent in IAF and IN rise up on sheer girt and hard work. IA in particular has been subject to decades of COIN experience which has weeded out a lot of poor officers (as well as good ones)[/quote]


Honestly, this is so off topic!!!

-M

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 11 Oct 2014 04:19

I have multiple cribs about this article.. they are
1)Title: The author is grossly mis-informed, Everybody and their mother, including Pakees agree that India has given a disproportionately HIGHER response, maybe he was thinking about the DHIMI-Dossier type response of UPA times
2) Usage of words: "unresolvable Kashmir masla" why is Kashmir not unresolvable? what is MASLA?, "Feuding local commanders" - is he talking about some beighbourhood gang fighting over who own the street corner, since when can local commanders take matters into their own hands...
"tit-fortat" - What the F is this? who did the editing?
"autonomous Pak military" - is there an non-autonomous Pak military, also is he contrasting it with IA which is firmly under civilian control? if so then he should have used "IRRESPONSIBLE, ROUGUE etc"
"The creme de la creme testing Modi" - why can't a Retd Indian General show respect to their PM by saying "PM Modi", Burka Mutt talks about Hafiz Sayed as Shree Hafiz Sayed...who is testing PM Modi? How? Why? What did they achieve? in the absence of all this, this sentence is just a rant.
282 and 489 Seats: Pakistan was rattled by Brasstacks... Zia made the trip to India ostensibly to watch a cricket match - does he want PM Modi to score a self goal like IG (in Shimla) and RG (after Brasstacks in Jaipur)???
"Not developed a decisive, conventional military superiority" - Really, India does not have a conventional military superiority??? and he is a former Army General - in what aspect does India not have superiority?
Every commentator in India or abroad (including Pakees) grandly preface India's OWERWHELMING conventional superiority...
more on this later...

Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 11 Oct 2014 09:48

I have multiple cribs about this article.. here is the continuation...
1) "...and is leading to the law of diminishing results": diminishing results for whom, India or Pakistan?
2) "Pak army has achieved its immediate objective of internationalising Kashmir, pushing in infiltrators and testing Modi." - How? nobody including GCC countries are with Pakis, 3.5 friends have left them high and dry... nobody is even paying them lip service. where is infiltration happening? even during floods, infiltrators were being taken out. Infiltration is at an all time low?
3) "some divine source-read US": What bull is this, divine source US has managed to restrain Pakis or its proxies to attack India for decades but not able to stop attack on US force in Afghanistan.
4)"the punching bag will remain LoC " - so what is different now than the past six decades.
5)"Mr Modi, the acclaimed new messiah of Saarc spirit, will just have one option" - how come, why should Modi revive talks? what is he going to gain by that? what data point does he have other than "new messiah"
6)" not PM Nawaz Sharif but Gen Raheel Sharif with whom we should talk.": when has India talked to the military when there is a civilian govt? why start it now?...
this is a very badly written article, without much research... it looks like someone has used the name of a general and done a verbal diarrhea

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22759
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chetak » 11 Oct 2014 10:13

Shrinivasan wrote:
I have multiple cribs about this article.. here is the continuation...
1) "...and is leading to the law of diminishing results": diminishing results for whom, India or Pakistan?
2) "Pak army has achieved its immediate objective of internationalising Kashmir, pushing in infiltrators and testing Modi." - How? nobody including GCC countries are with Pakis, 3.5 friends have left them high and dry... nobody is even paying them lip service. where is infiltration happening? even during floods, infiltrators were being taken out. Infiltration is at an all time low?
3) "some divine source-read US": What bull is this, divine source US has managed to restrain Pakis or its proxies to attack India for decades but not able to stop attack on US force in Afghanistan.
4)"the punching bag will remain LoC " - so what is different now than the past six decades.
5)"Mr Modi, the acclaimed new messiah of Saarc spirit, will just have one option" - how come, why should Modi revive talks? what is he going to gain by that? what data point does he have other than "new messiah"
6)" not PM Nawaz Sharif but Gen Raheel Sharif with whom we should talk.": when has India talked to the military when there is a civilian govt? why start it now?...
this is a very badly written article, without much research... it looks like someone has used the name of a general and done a verbal diarrhea


The "writer" is vinod metha's brother and well known for his "exotic" tastes and his shenanigans in the Army, most of which would have attracted various very interesting sections of the IPC.

He was "politely" told to leave.

This is his revenge against the powers that be and his continuing road to the same exotic malsi tastes across the border.

member_22539
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2022
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22539 » 11 Oct 2014 10:40

^And we have people jumping in to defend these scums, just because they wore uniforms. A uniform doesn't give anyone license to be treasonous in word or deed.

Nikhil T
BRFite
Posts: 1286
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 06:48
Location: RAW HQ, Lodhi Road

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Nikhil T » 11 Oct 2014 10:59

Nice to see a PM who's not afraid to pick up the phone and speak. Such a morale boost!

Devendra Pathak: Meet the soldier who keeps Pakistan in check Read

Devendra Kumar Pathak did not get much sleep on the three nights he spent at the border in Jammu & Kashmir earlier this week. Besides being alongside his men inside border outposts as bullets rained across the frontier, the director-general of Border Security Force (BSF) got encouraging calls from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, exhorting him to return fire with fire.

Pathak, in the twilight of his long career in the Indian Police Service, much of which has been spent fighting terrorism and insurgency in Jammu & Kashmir and Assam, is now the man fighting Modi's 'war' with Pakistan on the international border. Although cross-border violations are nothing new, the sheer intensity has made many rate the ongoing skirmish as the worst in a decade.

And much of the action this time has been along the international border, which BSF guards, rather than the Line of Control ( LoC) overseen by the army.

"We have decided we will give Pakistan a thrashing for their misadventure this time. We have given them a very solid pounding and the loss on the other side is very heavy," Pathak told ET on Friday. "We have fired many more times the rounds Pakistan has fired. They have been silenced."

With his tenure set to last until February 2016 in the post, Pathak is the key man for Modi as things are expected to be on edge at the border given the new, aggressive strategy of engagement.

Incidentally, Pathak was the UPA govt's choice for BSF directorgeneral this April. Top sources in the new government said there could not be a better candidate for the key job given his years of experience on both the frontiers that BSF guards — those with Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Rajnath sent Pathak to Jammu

Hailing from Bihar, he joined the IPS in 1979 at 23 in the Assam-Meghalaya cadre and held charge of four districts as senior superintendent of police (SSP) in the two states at the height of the insurgency there. At the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), he was entrusted with raising the elite, specialist anti-Naxal force CoBRA (Commando Battalion for Resolute Action).

It is, however, his deep knowledge of Jammu & Kashmir that is coming in handy for the government amid the unprecedented crisis on the western front. Pathak was CRPF inspector general in Srinagar as well as CRPF special director-general of the Jammu & Kashmir zone before he shifted to BSF last year as special director and then became DG.

"I do know Pakistan and J&K well," he told ET. "That is why I feel though Pakistan has stopped firing today, you never know what will happen tomorrow. After all, they broke their earlier promise from August to not resort to unprovoked firing."

Home minister Rajnath Singh told Pathak to rush to Jammu on October 6 after firing intensified on the eve of Eid. Sources said Modi spoke to Pathak on multiple occasions while he was in Jammu, exhorting him to raise the morale of his forces and hit back with heavy retaliatory fire.

"It is rare for a PM to speak directly to the BSF chief... Usually the home minister or the home secretary remain in touch with the DG. But this time, from national security advisor Ajit Doval to the home minister and the PM, he was the direct go-to man," one of the persons said.


Pathak declined to reveal what Modi told him. "The PM and defence minister made a public statement on our response," he said. He, however, said that spending tense nights in border outposts with his men and visiting all sectors on the international border was a conscious decision. "You have to do this to show the men that their DG is alongside them. It boosts their morale," he said. On one such night, while Pathak was at an outpost in RS Pura, India fired at 65 Pakistani border outposts inside 15 minutes.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23993
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SSridhar » 11 Oct 2014 12:13

There’s method in Pakistan’s border madness - Lt. Gen (Retd) Syed Ata Hasnain
Internally imploding and externally getting less significant Pakistan is indeed worried. It has no common thread of policy due to different stake holders dictating different narratives and the Chief Executive horribly out of control. To make it worse, across the border the Indian State seems to be going from strength to strength with an economic revival on the cards, a strong leader in charge with intent of securing for the Nation its legitimate rights and an increasingly confident foreign policy. That policy also clearly projects that there will be no more talks unless Pakistan stops sponsoring terror in India. The contrast could not be worse. Pakistan's relevance lies in being hyphenated with India but that may soon be history.

Build the scenario further. The India focused Jihadi groups who have been Pakistan's force multipliers all this while are clamouring for more support to up the ante in J&K lest they get completely insignificant. As it is, they are being threatened into becoming bit players or just surrogates as the high profile ISIS with Taliban on board and the Al Qaida in competition, look towards the subcontinent. The Jihadi groups perceive that Pakistan's internal security campaign against the TTP is marginalising their importance.

Then comes the disastrous flood in J&K and suddenly there is a huge emotional connect from Rest of India through relief material and of treating it as an opportunity to work the Modi wonder; perhaps even make Srinagar and Jammu the first two of the hundred smart cities the prime minister intends to convert. It couldn't get worse for Pakistan; twenty five years of effort to make India bleed by a thousand cuts is under threat.

To top it all, there just aren't enough foot soldier terrorists left in J&K and no leadership at all to at least create some disruption and some turbulence during the upcoming high profile elections to J&K's assembly.

Efforts to infiltrate some terrorists in the Valley sector during the great deluge a month ago and thereafter have led to their near annihilation at the LoC.

In spite of all this, Pakistan's intellectuals offer the oft-repeated argument about their army and nation's fight against terror which supposedly leaves it no time to concentrate on J&K. That is exactly the point I am making; the Jihadi groups and the ISI wants more concentration on the Eastern front to prevent them all becoming history.

Just two other issues, in the limited space here. Why is the IB sector the target this time? Tactically, this is the best ground for infiltration and immediate targeting of suitable objectives in a very short time frame; the fence has been damaged by the floods and the BSF is doing a wonderful job with lesser than optimum density of deployment.

Where is this likely to go from here and is it any different to the situation last year? Well, the times appear to have changed drastically within a year. With a strong government and leader at the Centre, the Nation is definitely handling the situation better. Freedom to the Army does not translate into a free for all as many may perceive.

There is a level of calibration and India is correctly ratcheting its response appropriately. The warning to Pakistan should be clear; India's limit of tolerance will be crossed if Pakistan or the Jihadi groups under its control dare a trans LoC kind of an operation.

The response will immediately go up by many notches and we would be willing to risk a permanent breakdown of the ceasefire.

Handling the LoC requires insight into sensitivities of implications of every kind resulting from every action. It is not a situation which needs only bravado; much can be achieved through a range of almost unlimited options military commanders can employ but each must carry with it a message. It is an environment for thinking soldiers, politicians and diplomats, all affected in different ways. But central to the response is the need to be firm and committed to a strategy while retaining flexibility to wrest additional advantage at the termination of the standoff.


SidSom
BRFite
Posts: 119
Joined: 01 May 2011 07:49

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SidSom » 11 Oct 2014 12:14


SanjayC
BRFite
Posts: 1557
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SanjayC » 11 Oct 2014 12:20

chetak wrote:The "writer" is vinod metha's brother and well known for his "exotic" tastes and his shenanigans in the Army, most of which would have attracted various very interesting sections of the IPC.

He was "politely" told to leave.

This is his revenge against the powers that be and his continuing road to the same exotic malsi tastes across the border.


I have been reading his writings for years. He is an American parrot. Promotes American agenda in India. His "advice" -- like that of Shekhar Gupta -- is identical to what Uncle Sam wants to impress upon the Indian Govt.

Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17016
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Rahul M » 11 Oct 2014 12:31

chetak wrote:The "writer" is vinod metha's brother
...

is that true ? only a couple of days back I was mentioning to a BRFite that somehow I never found gen. mehta's opinions too impressive. that would explain a lot of things.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1629
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 11 Oct 2014 12:54

Do we have any confirmed info on arty being used by us in our response yet ?

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1629
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 11 Oct 2014 13:00

Rahul M wrote:
chetak wrote:The "writer" is vinod metha's brother
...

is that true ? only a couple of days back I was mentioning to a BRFite that somehow I never found gen. mehta's opinions too impressive. that would explain a lot of things.


Rahul, he used to be quite a sensible writer till a few years ago but seems to have lost the plot during the last few years. I don't think we should give too much credence to such nonsense. Power flows from the people....Modi connects with them like no other leader has done for decades and therefore these jokers will become more and more irrelevant.

Akshay Kapoor
Forum Moderator
Posts: 1629
Joined: 03 May 2011 11:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 11 Oct 2014 13:01



Thanks for posting. Articulates succintly what a lot of us have felt for a long long time. This needs to seep into our national consciousness.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14132
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 11 Oct 2014 13:03

Minhaz Merchant ‏@minhazmerchant 2h2 hours ago

No firing on border for second day in a row. Pak guns silenced. Its ISI-nurtured ecosystem in India silenced in tandem
DeshGujarat ‏@DeshGujarat 2h2 hours ago

@sharsanj @minhazmerchant NewsX had reported 165 casualties on Pakistan side including 85 Pakis in uniform
SanjayKumar ‏@sharsanj 2h2 hours ago

@minhazmerchant 200+ casualties as per Al Jazeera !

chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 22759
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chetak » 11 Oct 2014 13:15

Rahul M wrote:
chetak wrote:The "writer" is vinod metha's brother
...

is that true ? only a couple of days back I was mentioning to a BRFite that somehow I never found gen. mehta's opinions too impressive. that would explain a lot of things.



per wiki

Ashok K. Mehta was a former Major general of the Indian Army, and a radio and television commentator, and a columnist on defence and security issues.[1] He was founder-member of the Defence Planning Staff in the Ministry of Defence, India. He is also the elder brother of the renowned journalist and editor, Vinod Mehta.


old jungle saying, diseased testicle never fall far from tree.

vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishvak » 11 Oct 2014 13:31

One jhapad is enough to show that pakis are nothing more than jihadi mob with nukes - that shows up with jihadi wailing about nukes post-jhapad. If this kind of 'nuclear neighbor'-hood jihadi blackmail occurs again than we should begin planning for mukti bahini with nukes type asymmetric warfare. The forst mistake we made post independence was to offer direct war to barbarians instead of finishing of warmongrels only by, and nothing more than, asymmetric warfare which is what these phony invader-idealists deserve.

There is NO rule to burden ourselves with jihadi brinkmanship anywhere at the border or otherwise. See the pictures of Mars taken by Mangal-yaan. There is no polio-land next to Indus valley or any jihadi-launch pads in general. No point to buy any jihadi lemon sold by pimps of jihadis covered under label of whatever.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14132
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 11 Oct 2014 13:39

They are at it again ... after NS gave them the permission to go for it ... Not that it mattered but NS is protecting his behind after Kargil.

Press Trust of India ‏@PTI_News 11m11 minutes ago

Pakistan violates ceasefire along LoC in Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir, drawing retaliation from Army.

Narad
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 04 Jan 2010 15:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Narad » 11 Oct 2014 14:49

Pakistan again violates ceasefire, fires at forward posts in Poonch

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 782671.cms

Vipul
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3727
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 03:30

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vipul » 11 Oct 2014 17:44

Devendra Pathak: Meet the soldier who keeps Pakistan in check.

Devendra Kumar Pathak did not get much sleep on the three nights he spent at the border in Jammu & Kashmir earlier this week. Besides being alongside his men inside border outposts as bullets rained across the frontier, the director-general of Border Security Force (BSF) got encouraging calls from Prime Minister Narendra Modi, exhorting him to return fire with fire.

Pathak, in the twilight of his long career in the Indian Police Service, much of which has been spent fighting terror terrorism and insurgency in Jammu & Kashmir and Assam, is now the man fighting Modi's 'war' with Pakistan on the international border. Although cross-border violations are nothing new, the sheer intensity has made many rate the ongoing skirmish as the worst in a decade.

And much of the action this time has been along the international border, which BSF guards, rather than the Line of Control ( LoC) overseen by the army.

"We have decided we will give Pakistan a thrashing for their misadventure this time. We have given them a very solid pounding and the loss on the other side is very heavy," Pathak told ET on Friday. "We have fired many more times the rounds Pakistan has fired. They have been silenced."

With his tenure set to last until February 2016 in the post, Pathak is the key man for Modi as things are expected to be on edge at the border given the new, aggressive strategy of engagement.

Incidentally, Pathak was the UPA govt's choice for BSF directorgeneral this April. Top sources in the new government said there could not be a better candidate for the key job given his years of experience on both the frontiers that BSF guards — those with Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Hailing from Bihar, he joined the IPS in 1979 at 23 in the Assam-Meghalaya cadre and held charge of four districts as senior superintendent of police (SSP) in the two states at the height of the insurgency there. At the Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF), he was entrusted with raising the elite, specialist anti-Naxal force CoBRA (Commando Battalion for Resolute Action).

It is, however, his deep knowledge of Jammu & Kashmir that is coming in handy for the government amid the unprecedented crisis on the western front. Pathak was CRPF inspector general in Srinagar as well as CRPF special director-general of the Jammu & Kashmir zone before he shifted to BSF last year as special director and then became DG.

"I do know Pakistan and J&K well," he told ET. "That is why I feel though Pakistan has stopped firing today, you never know what will happen tomorrow. After all, they broke their earlier promise from August to not resort to unprovoked firing."

Home minister Rajnath Singh told Pathak to rush to Jammu on October 6 after firing intensified on the eve of Eid. Sources said Modi spoke to Pathak on multiple occasions while he was in Jammu, exhorting him to raise the morale of his forces and hit back with heavy retaliatory fire.

"It is rare for a PM to speak directly to the BSF chief... Usually the home minister or the home secretary remain in touch with the DG. But this time, from national security advisor Ajit Doval to the home minister and the PM, he was the direct go-to man," one of the persons said.

Pathak declined to reveal what Modi told him. "The PM and defence minister made a public statement on our response," he said. He, however, said that spending tense nights in border outposts with his men and visiting all sectors on the international border was a conscious decision. "You have to do this to show the men that their DG is alongside them. It boosts their morale," he said. On one such night, while Pathak was at an outpost in RS Pura, India fired at 65 Pakistani border outposts inside 15 minutes.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14132
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 11 Oct 2014 18:34

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/ ... eatre.html

Change of scene in the India-Pakistan theatre
In India, a new Government is putting in place ground rules for engagement with Pakistan. These rules are still in a formative stage but they are decidedly different from the pattern of the past 15 years

It is now fairly apparent that Indian forces have retaliated so heavily along the troubled frontier that Pakistani troops are on the retreat. In the past two days, pressure from across the border has lessened. Whether this is temporary or this is an end to at least this phase of hostilities remains to be seen.

To some degree, this border face-off was expected. It happens every year and it involves a last effort by Pakistan to provide cover to jihadis entering into Jammu & Kashmir before winter sets in and snows make migration difficult. This year, the attack has been sharper. The most obvious reason for this is the upcoming Jammu & Kashmir election.

The election was scheduled to take place in October-November. The fact that devastating floods are still troubling large parts of the State will inevitably necessitate a postponement of the election to spring and about March 2015. This gives Pakistan a longer window to disrupt conditions in Jammu & Kashmir, particularly in the Valley. It enhances challenge for India before the election, and suggests that the winter may be anything but placid.

There are two other reasons for Pakistan to push ahead more aggressively. It is unlikely a weak and embattled civilian Government, led by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who is in control of the narrative or even knows what’s going on. The generals in Rawalpindi are forcing attention on external enemy — India — to unite Pakistani opinion, especially in the lower middle-class Punjabi family both Islamist militant groups and the Army recruit from.

Finally, the Army is once more seeking to internationalise and sensationalise the Kashmir dispute hoping to attract global attention. This is a gambit that the Pakistani Army has tried more than once in the past. Unfortunately for it, the gambit is now yielding diminishing returns. As was seen from the recent Barack Obama-Narendra Modi joint statement, the Americans are today willing to place the jihadi groups targeting India — including the Lashkar-e-Tayyeba and the D Company, which traverses the space between organised crime and religious causes — and the jihad in Iraq-Syria, as represented by the Islamic State, on the same page.

This is a setback for Pakistan, which has previously tried to present jihad in Kashmir/South Asia as qualitatively different and sequestered from the jihad in West Asia. In its current mood, the Washington, DC, establishment is no longer buying that argument. Pakistan will do its utmost to make the Americans change their minds. Brinkmanship on the border with India, and along the Line of Control in Kashmir, is an attempt at this.

The Modi Government has responded to the challenge by giving the Army and the security forces a “free hand” — a phrase used several times in the past few days. The Indian counter-attack has been overwhelming. In terms of lives lost, both uniformed and civilian, Pakistan has suffered much greater damage than India. The loss of civilian lives is regrettable but unavoidable. After all, Pakistani shelling and weapons have killed Indian civilians as well. The idea of imposing “unaffordable” costs, to use Defence Minister Arun Jaitley’s expression, means some hard decisions have to be taken and like has to be matched with like.

Could the skirmish escalate into something bigger? At the moment, this is unlikely and it would seem that Pakistani shelling is being scaled down. However, only a fool would make a certain prediction. If Rawalpindi’s plan is to infiltrate more terrorists in Kashmir before the election, then a further round (or rounds) can be expected. Already, the ongoing exchange is the second such after the Modi Government took over.

There is a tendency in sections of the Pakistani security apparatus to “test” a new Indian leader. This had happened with VP Singh in 1990, when a nuclear crisis was threatened and it had brought the then United States Secretary of Defence rushing to the subcontinent. It had happened with Mr Atal Bihari Vajpayee in 1999, when Kargil was invaded. A similar “test” for Mr Modi is always on the cards. What we are seeing is a conventional test — at the level of the Pakistani Army and security forces. The likelihood of an unconventional test — such as a big terrorist attack — cannot be ruled out.

This is not to suggest that there is any single command and control structure in Pakistan that has been tasked with so “testing” Mr Modi. In reality, with various wings of the Army and the political class intersecting, with the Inter-Services Intelligence playing footsie with some jihadi groups even while its colleagues in the Army fight others, and with the jihadi groups themselves acquiring a quantum of functional autonomy, no doubt several balls have been rolled out.

It is obvious, the threat of violence from Pakistan — whether state, non-state or semi-state — will remain high in the near future, especially in 2015, when American-led forces go home from Afghanistan. It is also obvious that the Modi Government is determined to retaliate without seeking to second-guess international opinion. This is part of its political positioning and mandate; it is also indicative of its product differentiation from the UPA Government. There is no value judgement attached to such predictions. These are just an assessment of objective conditions.

Does this mean the threat of escalation will still be there even if there is a cessation in current hostilities? The blunt answer is yes. After a 12-year American presence and to that extent predictability, the Afghanistan-Pakistan theatre is entering a new phase. In India, a new Government is putting in place ground rules for engagement with Pakistan that are still in a formative stage but decidedly different from the pattern of the past 15 years. The cancellation of foreign secretary level talks after the Pakistani ambassador in New Delhi met Hurriyat representatives was a sign of this.

All this means the prism through which the India-Pakistan equation has been analysed for the past few years no longer holds. It is a moment of transition, at least tactical, if not strategic. This week, Pakistani troops learnt it the hard way.

williams
BRFite
Posts: 453
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 20:55

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby williams » 11 Oct 2014 19:52

Folks,
I am at loss at our MSM. Why are they working against our own govt and trying to help the paki propaganda. Is that their sinister intent or just their natural thought process. If it is a sinister intent, then what laws/regulation should be put in place to check this kind of treacherous attitude? This will be a nightmare, if a war starts. MSM will be working in sync with Paki and western propaganda machinery while our soldiers sweat it out in the field.

rsingh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3388
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 01:05
Location: Pindi
Contact:

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby rsingh » 11 Oct 2014 21:05

pankajs wrote:They are at it again ... after NS gave them the permission to go for it ... Not that it mattered but NS is protecting his behind after Kargil.

Press Trust of India ‏@PTI_News 11m11 minutes ago

Pakistan violates ceasefire along LoC in Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir, drawing retaliation from Army.


Nothing serious.......just last attempt by Bakis to save some H&D. Then there was this dialog in one of the film about Kargil " Be careful......Bakistani hamesha palat ke war karta hei".

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RoyG » 12 Oct 2014 01:05

Seems like we have given them a befitting reply. Judging by the news reports, seems as though many of their soldiers were blown to bits and torn up by machine gun fire. Civilian population has been hit as well

RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5180
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RoyG » 12 Oct 2014 01:05

Seems like we have given them a befitting reply. Judging by the news reports, seems as though many of their soldiers were blown to bits and torn up by machine gun fire. Civilian population has been hit as well

hanumadu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4720
Joined: 11 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby hanumadu » 12 Oct 2014 01:22

Why did we stop the shelling? Unless all their bunkers and terrorist camps have been destroyed, we should continue to bomb their positions as deep as possible. Are we going at least as deep as Pinaka and Smerch? Ofcourse army knows the best, but just want to see the pakis begging us to stop.


Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests