India Border Watch: Security and Operations

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shrinivasan » 19 Oct 2014 23:27

Has this 19 camp destoyed news been coraborated by any other source??? Is Arnab's shoutathin, some mentioned it but am not sure if it was treated as a credible news...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Yagnasri » 20 Oct 2014 03:08

Terror camps are nothing more than few huts. I seriously doubt is they have anything there of worthdworth destroying. Killing of pakis is good though. If true. But reports say we only targeted military and their infrastructure, which also may include few terrorist brothers of Pakistan army.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby P Chitkara » 20 Oct 2014 09:16

Heard from a chaiwala - special forces under this regime are no longer completely vela.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Yagnasri » 20 Oct 2014 09:21

P Chitkara wrote:Heard from a chaiwala - special forces under this regime are no longer completely vela.


Sorry sir. What do you mean by the above.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shiv » 20 Oct 2014 09:23

Yagnasri wrote:Terror camps are nothing more than few huts. I seriously doubt is they have anything there of worthdworth destroying. Killing of pakis is good though. If true. But reports say we only targeted military and their infrastructure, which also may include few terrorist brothers of Pakistan army.


Well they are likely to have shooting ranges, an armoury, obstacle courses - instructors huts, a media area, kitchen, stores etc. And if they have the audacity to maintain all this within mortar range - it speaks of an audacity stemming from the weakness of the previous government. Well worth smashing

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby SanjayC » 20 Oct 2014 09:28

Yagnasri wrote:
P Chitkara wrote:Heard from a chaiwala - special forces under this regime are no longer completely vela.


Sorry sir. What do you mean by the above.


"Vela" means idle. Special forces under this regime are no longer sitting idle -- they are actively conducting operations (perhaps in neighboring countries).

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby habal » 21 Oct 2014 14:22

Chenab Rangers 'sector commander' Brig Wasim briefing on damages by Yeevil Yindoos during ceasefire violation.

33,000 rounds of mortar fired by bsf/IA in 2014
300,000+ rounds of small arms fire in 2014

photos of destroyed/damaged structures, soldiers who embraced 'shahadat' etc in briefing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATjuQiY6NA

Ispecial rhona-dhona on shelling done during eid. Oct 6,7,8.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karan M » 21 Oct 2014 18:19

lol - i dont know which is worse, them cooking up numbers. or admitting they got hammered like that by the indians

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chaanakya » 21 Oct 2014 19:54

How did they count these numbers? did they depute statistical officers who meticulously counted each and every round fired by India? How did the supervisory officers verified those numbers? Did they collect empty cartridges etc or collected each slugs landing there? How long did they take?

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishvak » 21 Oct 2014 20:09

Karan M wrote:lol - i dont know which is worse, them cooking up numbers. or admitting they got hammered like that by the indians

Haha. Hear the tone and sounds coming from mouth of bogus marital race of invaders. One jhapad is all it takes and now its on video.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Oct 2014 20:12

We should be extra careful over the next 2 days, Pakis are sure to act up during Diwali.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 21 Oct 2014 21:50

Aditya_V wrote:We should be extra careful over the next 2 days, Pakis are sure to act up during Diwali.

Wouldn't surprise me if the BSF is looking forward to some ceasefire violators so they get to play with some fireworks for Diwali.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 21 Oct 2014 22:20

Pak Rangers should prepare a dossier of these facts and fire it off GoI asap.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28722 » 21 Oct 2014 22:33

SanjayC wrote:"Vela" means idle. Special forces under this regime are no longer sitting idle -- they are actively conducting operations (perhaps in neighboring countries).

Hopefully some spooks are also doing Sarfarosh style operations ...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28722 » 21 Oct 2014 22:34

Aditya G wrote:Pak Rangers should prepare a dossier of these facts and fire it off GoI asap.

Yes, we need to know how they counted the shells :rotfl:

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Karan M » 21 Oct 2014 22:46

vishvak wrote:
Karan M wrote:lol - i dont know which is worse, them cooking up numbers. or admitting they got hammered like that by the indians

Haha. Hear the tone and sounds coming from mouth of bogus marital race of invaders. One jhapad is all it takes and now its on video.


Pak rangers have deployed their tier 2 Afsars to dissuade GOI, Mainu pub-by, parveen sami, sheikh-ar dupatta et al. The track 2 fixers are still thinking modi and co give a sh!t about their news trading.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishvak » 21 Oct 2014 22:54

Can pakis type anything close to an official dossier? Have they ever done such a thing? Allah forbid pakis have to work.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 21 Oct 2014 22:54

Joyeeta Basu @eeta · 2h 2 hours ago

Just back from Jammu. You have to visit the International Border to realise what a trigger happy pest Pakistan is. Read my reports on Sunday

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 21 Oct 2014 23:14

saurabh.mhapsekar wrote:
SanjayC wrote:"Vela" means idle. Special forces under this regime are no longer sitting idle -- they are actively conducting operations (perhaps in neighboring countries).

Hopefully some spooks are also doing Sarfarosh style operations ...


The border with Pakistan has never been silent or idle. Least of all the SF.

FWIW - article from 2013:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/l ... 358199.ece

...

Six months after the Kargil war, on the night of January 21-22, 2000, seven Pakistani soldiers were alleged to have been captured in a raid on a post in the Nadala enclave, across the Neelam River. The seven soldiers, wounded in fire, were allegedly tied up and dragged across a ravine running across the LoC. The bodies were returned, according to Pakistan’s complaint, bearing signs of brutal torture.

“Pakistan chose to underplay the Nadala incident,” a senior Pakistani military officer involved with its Military Operations Directorate told The Hindu, “as General Pervez Musharraf had only recently staged his coup, and did not want a public outcry that would spark a crisis with India.”

Indian military sources told The Hindu that the raid, conducted by a special forces unit, was intended to avenge the killing of Captain Saurabh Kalia, and five soldiers — sepoys Bhanwar Lal Bagaria, Arjun Ram, Bhika Ram, Moola Ram and Naresh Singh — of the 4 Jat Regiment. The patrol had been captured on May 15, 1999, in the Kaksar sector of Kargil. Post mortem revealed that the men’s bodies had been burned with cigarette-ends and their genitals mutilated.

...

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28722 » 21 Oct 2014 23:33

^^^ Thanks for the link.
Any info anti-smuggling ops by BSF in Raj, Guj or WB border? The later two are notoriously tough to patrol.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby jamwal » 22 Oct 2014 00:03

pankajs wrote:
Joyeeta Basu @eeta · 2h 2 hours ago

Just back from Jammu. You have to visit the International Border to realise what a trigger happy pest Pakistan is. Read my reports on Sunday



Why are these journalists waking up only now ? Pakis have been very annoying and dangerous pests since beginning. A number of firing incidents and them being big pain in ass for people living near border areas hardly ever reaches any newspaper.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby abhishek_sharma » 22 Oct 2014 07:25

Image

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_28797 » 22 Oct 2014 09:44

Finally, a govt. that gives a shit about National security and National dignity. It's about time leftist nehruvian bs and cowardice is put to sleep once and for all

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_26622 » 22 Oct 2014 21:11

I think everyone needs to distinguish between Congress pre-Indira Gandhi and post.

As per my readings, the old Congress is long 'dead', replaced by 'pseudo-royalty suc*kers' to maintain family hold of power and continuity by Indira Gandhi during her heydays.

Just synthesis of my readings - not claiming to be an expert of any manner on this topic.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pushkar.bhat » 22 Oct 2014 21:30

I get a bad feeling that the Paki's will try to pull off something either tonight or early tomorrow morning and yes our boys will be ready to receive them and then dispatch them to their 72.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22733 » 22 Oct 2014 21:36

nik wrote:I think everyone needs to distinguish between Congress pre-Indira Gandhi and post.

As per my readings, the old Congress is long 'dead', replaced by 'pseudo-royalty suc*kers' to maintain family hold of power and continuity by Indira Gandhi during her heydays.

Just synthesis of my readings - not claiming to be an expert of any manner on this topic.


I think there are many eras

Gokhale era (was to a large extent nationalistic, yet a good subject to the brishit crown)
Gandhi era (brishit co-opting the CON party)
Nehru era (ideological blunder galore)
Indira era (dictatorial plus a$$ kissing)
Rajiv era (Corruption/nepotism/dynasty)
Sonia era (EJ/Corruption/Anti-national activities/dynasty/sycophancy etc)

Each stage is more rotten, more out of touch with the ground realities than the other. All the more reason for CON-mukt-Bharath.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby VijayN » 22 Oct 2014 23:29

Perhaps not related directly to this ongoing discussion, sharing this piece of a Soldier's view of the movie Haider. Very succinctly narrated, provides perspective on what we are up against.

http://agniveer.com/a-soldier-reviews-haider/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Agniveer+%28Agniveer%29

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Shanmukh » 23 Oct 2014 08:37

chaanakya wrote:How did they count these numbers? did they depute statistical officers who meticulously counted each and every round fired by India? How did the supervisory officers verified those numbers? Did they collect empty cartridges etc or collected each slugs landing there? How long did they take?


The counted the number they had fired and multiplied it by a factor of ten. One TFTA Paki shell==ten SDRE Yindoo shells.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby vishvak » 23 Oct 2014 10:07

VijayN wrote:Perhaps not related directly to this ongoing discussion, sharing this piece of a Soldier's view of the movie Haider. Very succinctly narrated, provides perspective on what we are up against.

http://agniveer.com/a-soldier-reviews-haider/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Agniveer+%28Agniveer%29

See how normal Indians have clearer ideas than 'international' intellectuals.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Victor » 23 Oct 2014 10:29

The rail lines in Arunachal are indeed interesting good news with regard to the planned roads in the area. Though obviously unprecedented in challenges, our railway engineers (Konkan Rly?) have shown their capability in J&K. IMHO it is only their mega-bridge-building capabilities that can achieve the road the govt envisages in AP running alongside the border. It seems BRO's capabilities are not above those of Op Dantak in Bhutan which never went anywhere near the McMahon Line. That will need a different level of skill and experience. However with a fresh new breeze blowing in India who knows. Just hope I experience those roads and rail lines in my lifetime.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 23 Oct 2014 11:38

Praveen Swami writes on the latest episode.

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... ign=buffer

Written by Praveen Swami | Posted: October 21, 2014 12:39 am | Updated: October 21, 2014 9:10 am
Experience and government statistics show that machismo has never worked as a plan against Pakistan.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh seemed to have vengeance on his mind that morning, the fires lit on 26/11 still raging in Mumbai, as he met with top intelligence and military officials: “The people of India will never forgive us if we do nothing,” a senior intelligence official recalls him saying. Yet, it became clear at the November 29, 2008 meeting, doing something wasn’t easy: the army chief, General Deepak Kapoor, couldn’t promise special forces’ strikes across the Line of Control (LoC), while Air Chief Marshal Fali Major complained he didn’t have adequate targeting data.

“They did nothing,” Prime Minister Narendra Modi said during his election campaign, “Indians died and they did — nothing.” “Talk to Pakistan in Pakistan’s language,” he went on, “because it won’t learn lessons until then.” {Blames the armed forces for lack of Indian retaliation after 26/11} :evil:

For the last eight weeks, Indian troops have been acting on his words: replying shell for shell and bullet for bullet for the shots Pakistani forces have been firing across the LoC. The prime minister has said Pakistan has been taught a lesson, with the Indian army “shutting their mouth”. Yet, the firing goes on, on both the LoC and the international border: as late as Monday, Pakistani troops fired on farmers in fields around the Pargwal and Jaurian areas of Akhnoor, and over 30,000 people from 110 hamlets continue to live in refugee camps. This tells us that the problem isn’t one machismo is going to end. Facing a crisis within, Pakistan’s army has sought to bring the Islamist constituency back into its fold by reviving the state-authorised war in Kashmir. Kashmir is thus seeing an uptick in violence, with infiltration across the LoC rising. Tensions with India serve this project well, giving the army the halo of patriotism. Put simply, India is shooting itself in the foot on the LoC. Experience tells us this: Indian firing on the LoC, however ferocious, will not deter Pakistan’s pursuit of its proxy war. From 1998 to 2003, Pakistan’s use of border fire to facilitate a surge in infiltration across the LoC led to no-holds-barred artillery duels — ferocious exchanges that levelled entire villages in the Neelam valley and destroyed hundreds of homes in Poonch, Uri and Kargil. Thousands of such cross-border exchanges took place each year, in contrast with the 100-odd seen since 2003 — and yet, each year, violence in Kashmir rose. From the summer of 1998, secure in the belief its demonstrated nuclear-weapons capability would now deter a conventional Indian military strike, Pakistan’s army ratcheted up infiltration to bolster the flagging insurgency in Kashmir. In 1997, there were 1,116 attacks on Indian forces — the lowest since 1990. These rose inexorably, in the following years, to 1,211, 1,390, 1,560, 1,994, and 1,654. Fatalities suffered by Indian forces also rose, from 203 in 1997, to 230, 387, 499, 577 and 457 — the highest numbers ever recorded during the long jihad in Kashmir. To push enhanced numbers of jihadists into Kashmir, Pakistan needed to engage Indian defences on the LoC — creating gaps infiltrators could exploit. India responded with a strategy that sought to punish Pakistan’s military, using its superior 155 mm artillery. From government statistics, it’s clear the plan didn’t work. In 1998, there were 4,117 clashes on the LoC in which 78 soldiers and another 78 civilians were killed on the Indian side alone. The numbers went up and up until 2002, when 81 soldiers and 74 civilians were killed in 5,767 border clashes. The guns fell silent at the end of that year, with the LoC ceasefire coming into place, but by that time, it was clear both sides could sustain these duels indefinitely.

The lesson from the data is simple: firing on the LoC helps Pakistan pursue an escalatory strategy; quiet makes it harder {We are the culprits behind why LOC is not quiet. Onus is on us not to respond to escalation from Pakistan }. In 2003, the ceasefire went into place — and with it, India was able to complete fencing and enhance aggressive counter-infiltration measures. Fighting inside Jammu and Kashmir went into a year-on-year decline.

PM Modi’s advisers know why this happened: General Pervez Musharraf came to the conclusion the war against India was bleeding Pakistan, not the other way round. The near-war that began after the terrorist attack on Parliament House in New Delhi showed Pakistan’s nuclear weapons did indeed deter India from attacking — but the price of crisis was too high. {Change of heart at Pakistan side. Our own response had nothing to do with it. Revisionist bull$hit} In addition, the United States — knowing that an India-Pakistan crisis would complicate its own position in Afghanistan — cracked the whip.

Lieutenant-General Moinuddin Haider, Musharraf’s interior minister, told the scholar George Perkovich that he had said, “Mr president, your economic plan will not work, people will not invest, if you don’t get rid of extremists.” The president, albeit reluctantly, listened.

From mid-2002, an extraordinary series of secret meetings and contacts began to explore how future crises might be averted. The two governments worked out the terms of a ceasefire along the LoC. Lieutenant-General Ehsan-ul-Haq, the then-Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) chief, met with his Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) counterpart, C.D. Sahay, to discuss cross-border terrorism. From unsigned notes revealed in 2009, we also know that secret envoys working for Singh and Musharraf came close to a final-status deal on Kashmir.

Ever since 2008, though, it’s been evident that the peace process set in motion in 2003 has all but unravelled. Former Pakistan army chief Ashfaq Parvez Kayani sought a rapprochement with the jihadists his predecessor had alienated — and that meant rolling back the peace process. Kayani initiated the first renewed fighting on the LoC in 2008, and escalated steadily.

Modi has many coercive options: threatening full-blown war, as PM Atal Bihari Vajpayee did; engaging in limited skirmishes targeting the Pakistan army on the LoC, to punish it militarily; air-strikes against jihadi camps; even assassinating top jihadi leaders inside Pakistan, as Afghanistan and the US now do. Each of these problems, though, comes with very substantial risks {Why does he not lecture the Pakistanis?}. Limited fighting on the LoC can easily escalate into war. Killing terrorist leaders could lead to retaliatory bombings, and thus more violence, rather than less. The record of air strikes, similarly, isn’t luminous; the US tried and failed to degrade al-Qaeda using these in 1998. It is also possible such action will engender instability, scaring investors and defeating India’s pursuit of its real strategic objective — as high as possible economic growth.

How to resolve this conundrum isn’t obvious — which is precisely why so many governments have struggled, unsuccessfully, with the same problem. Modi may well succeed where others didn’t, but it won’t be with showy, made-for-television fireworks on the Line of Control. Praveen.swami@expressindia.com

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aditya G » 23 Oct 2014 11:46

http://www.firstpost.com/india/the-new- ... 68509.html

by R Jagannathan Oct 22, 2014 16:01 IST
#Ajit Doval #diplomacy #India-Pakistan Ties #LoC firing #Narendra Modi #Nuclear Doctrine #The Neighbourhood
296 Comments

...

India under Modi is evolving a new security doctrine that abandons the weak-kneed and pointless pusillanimity of the Manmohan Singh years. What is being junked is the old acceptance that we will take any provocation lying down in order to signal our peaceful intentions. While some peaceniks think this is fine, the fact is it gave both our neighbours the impression that we Indians have no spine. It has, in fact, emboldened them to indulge in more brazen provocations.

While it is too early to say how the Modi-Doval hardline approach is going to work, there is little doubt that the old stance has been a failure. But the surprising thing is that the new stance has generated its fair bunch of critics. In a cover story, India Today warns that we are “playing with fire”, and Editor-in-Chief Aroon Purie said in his editor’s note that “shelling across the border is not going to bring about any long-term resolution to the Kashmir conflict; a solution can only be reached through sustained dialogue, however frustrating that may sometimes be. The sooner we can sit across the table, the better.”

He is completely wrong, for this is precisely the policy we have been following and we are nowhere near a solution.

Praveen Swami, a former Firstpost editor now with The Indian Express, also excoriates the new line on the LoC firing, and suggests that “machismo has never worked as a plan against Pakistan". He added: “The lesson from the data is simple: firing on the LoC helps Pakistan pursue an escalatory strategy; quiet makes it harder. In 2003, the ceasefire went into place - and with it, India was able to complete fencing and enhance aggressive counter-infiltration measures. Fighting inside Jammu and Kashmir went into a year-on-year decline.”

Sure, if the only idea of the Modi-Doval strategy is machismo, he would be right. But was the non-strategy of ignoring Pakistani provocations actually working? Swami probably confuses coincidence with correlation and correlation with causation. The reason for the relative quiet on the LoC after 2003 may have had little to do with the ceasefire agreement or the weak Indian response to provocations. It had everything to do with American pressure on that country after 9/11. After the 1971 defeat, too, Pakistan gave us a decade-and-a-half of quiet. It was merely biding its time till it regained its strength. Now that America itself is in retreat from Afghanistan and shows no stomach for another battle, Pakistan feels emboldened to up the ante once again with India. Fear of America is gone.

Meanwhile, China is asking Pakistan to pressure us when it can, thus giving it another reason to start low-intensity hostilities. In this situation, it is questionable whether keeping quiet is the right policy for us. Also worth noting: China is more interested in Siachen being vacated by us than even Pakistan.

It is obvious that any change is unsettling for the security-wallahs and peaceniks who have been comfortable with breast-beating when India did nothing to deal with its recalcitrant neighbours. They could then say we need a more robust policy on terror and border management without having to explain how. Now that there are signs of some genuinely robust rethinking on our part, they are suddenly fretting about the consequences.

This is not to say Modi must escalate the tensions. He should not. The effectiveness, or otherwise, of the new security policy can only be gauged after it has been rolled out and implemented over the next few years. However, the policy cannot go wrong as long as it keeps some core principles in mind and we completely understand how our neighbours think about themselves and us. Right now they think we lack resolve and can be slowly coerced to sign away our rights - whether it is in J&K, Ladakh or Arunachal Pradesh.

This is exactly what our policy should seek to dispel: that we are pushovers. But conveying this needs more than firing mortars into Pakistan-occupied J&K. It needs us to embrace a whole raft of initiatives and a long-term vision to send this message across.

The core of our strategy should be to, first, build a fast-growing and entrepreneurial economy; second, develop a policy of continuous diplomatic engagement with Pakistan, China and all the major powers; and, third, to build a strong internal and external security doctrine that can effectively deal with terror and Sino-Pak collusion in boxing India into a corner.

As we have repeatedly noted, this policy will have to take into account what Pakistan and China are all about. The former is an ideological state in a permanent mental frame of war against "Hindu" India; the latter is a hegemon to beat all hegemons of the past.

The reality of Pakistan is this: Islam and a permanent anti-India stance are vital to its staying in one piece. So we should forget about any kind of solution to our problems with terror in a foreseeable timeframe. And Kashmir is not the core issue at all. An ideological state has to be defeated in the mind before it can offer durable peace; its actions are not guided by rational security concerns alone. A normal state would have been happy to discuss peace after achieving nuclear parity with India in 1998; but Pakistan sees nuclear parity as a shield under which it can prosecute permanent low-intensity warfare and terror against India. This means we have to keep raising the costs to Pakistan for this policy even while keeping our aggression below the threshold of formal war.

This is what C Christine Fair, in her book Fighting To The End: The Pakistani Army's Way of War, clearly emphasises. Repeated defeats, and even the loss of East Pakistan in 1971, did not make the Pakistani army (which is the Pakistani state really) want to work out an honourable peace. Defeat for Pakistan is not defeat in the battlefield, but the inability to be a thorn in India's side. Any concession on J&K will only convince the Pakistani generals that they were right all along in pursuing a path of mindless antagonism to India. The ISI will keep sending terrorists over to do damage. Let's not fool ourselves that talks will solve this problem.

For India, this means four or five things: we have to keep strengthening our resolve to fight terror and roll with the punches when we can't prevent it; we have to give it back to Pakistan without raising the stakes where it becomes an open war with the nuclear threat hanging over us; we have to develop covert capabilities inside Pakistan so that they know two can play the dangerous game; we have to diplomatically explain to the world what we are doing and why Kashmir isn't the issue, but Pakistan's ideology-driven terrorism is; and, lastly, we have to keep talking to Pakistan to convince them they cannot win and to tell the world dialogue isn't a problem for us. Underlying it all we have to give a consistent message: enmity with India has costs. If you try to harm us we will harm you.

We have to prepare ourselves for a 100-year war of attrition with Pakistan till the latter accepts reality or falls victim to its own follies and disintegrates. Right now the latter possibility looks more probable than the former.

As for China, it is a hegemon which wants to use its economic clout to settle borders and control security zones to its satisfaction. It is willing to trade economic concessions for territorial and political gains. To deter China, we have to grow faster than them, develop tactical and effective nuclear deterrence abilities, and emphasise that trade cannot grow if they keep wanting to change the status quo on the border by aggressive and intimidatory tactics. And, of course, we have to aggressively pursue long-term anti-China alliances - economic and strategic - with the Japanese, the Vietnamese and the US. It will take a long time for China to get the message that they cannot browbeat us into making concessions, but the Chinese always think long-term. So we too need to prepare for at least a 50-year mind battle with the Chinese to achieve a durable peace on our borders.

This is the context in which we must view the Modi-Doval emerging doctrine of security. The Prime Minister's decision to spend Diwali in J&K should be part of our internal effort to bring the valley into the mainstream of Indian thought and strategy. This sends a message both to the separatists, Pakistan and China.

It was on 26 October 1947 that Maharaja Hari Singh, the ruler of J&K, signed the instrument of accession with India after Pakistan sent Pathan tribesmen into his state to coerce it to sign up with them. This 26 October, India has to send a message to J&K, Pakistan, China and the world that this accession is final. There is nothing to negotiate with anyone except with our own estranged people in that state.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 23 Oct 2014 11:50

Praveen Swami and other like him are batting for the Pak establishment. I was surprised with the official pakis parroting the "economic derailment" line than the "noclear flashpoint" line. It is certain that the focus of their argument has changed under the tutelage of their Indian assets who recognize that the "economic" line has a much larger resonance with the Indian public.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Will » 23 Oct 2014 13:59

kmkraoind wrote:India plans 1,800-km highway along China border in Arunachal Pradesh

Image

The proposed highway, with an estimated cost of over Rs.40,000 crore, will pass through Tawang, East Kameng, Upper Subansiri, West Siang, Upper Siang, Dibang Valley, Desali, Chaglagam, Kibito, Dong, Hawai and Vijaynagar in bordering areas of Arunachal Pradesh.

The government has already relaxed environmental clearances for border area projects.

"The aim is to construct a seamless travel from one part of the state to another. As the terrain is not smooth along the border areas, we will intersect the highway with tunnels so that the link is not broken anywhere," said a senior MHA official.


This will be the best thing to happen when it is completed. Also the govt should give incentives to people to settle in border areas to give India strong bargaining chips during border negotiations. The Chinese are doing it.

Not just Arunachal but road connectivity needs to be improved through out the north east. Assam is a major staging area for the Indian army and is vital for the defence of the north east where India has the disadvantage of the "Chicken Neck" . If the Chicken Neck is overrun the IA should have the capability and the capacity to wage a sustained war from within the North East .

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby pankajs » 23 Oct 2014 14:59

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hi-tech-surveillance-cameras-to-help-security-forces-zoom-in-on-China/articleshow/44912874.cms

Hi-tech surveillance cameras to help security forces zoom in on China
NEW DELHI: In the wake of increasing Chinese aggression and the difficulty of physically manning the vast India-China border, Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) is acquiring high-end surveillance cameras that can see over 20 km deep into Chinese territory. One such camera has been installed at a border outpost (BoP) in Leh and at least 50 more are in the pipeline.

The acquisition is part of a largescale revamp in China border security infrastructure being undertaken by the government following frequent Chinese incursions in the past couple of years, the latest being over fortnight-long faceoffs in Demchok and Chumar areas of Ladakh last month. Government is already in the process of acquiring vehicles and choppers for the force.

...
On the installation of cameras, Goswami said, "We are fully ready to face any challenge from China. Our boys are well trained and equipped. However, we would like to have more surveillance equipment. We can't have boots everywhere. We have installed a state-of-the-art surveillance camera at Thakung post (north of Chushul) and it can see 20-22 km ahead. We are asking government for more such equipment."

Sources said the camera is equipped for thermal imaging as well and thus can see at night too. The footage from the camera recorded over a period of 10 days would be analyzed to gauge the pattern of Chinese troop movement or infrastructure buildup. Sources said at least 50 BoPs in Ladakh could be given such cameras.

Sources said there are also long-term plans for laying optical fibres along the border. As and when that happens, cameras could be connected to BoPs and eventually with headquarters in Delhi for real time monitoring of the border. There is already a plan afoot to have wireless area network in all BoPs.

The ITBP DG also said two of the 27 proposed roads on the border had been completed are were functioning well. He said the force had also started electronic procurement of its requirements and this had not only brought transparency but also reduced cost and widened the playing field. "We now have 100% e-procurement. This has brought prices of goods down by 20%," Goswami said.

...
The DG also raised a red flag on health hazards of working at high altitudes and hinted at the force needing to have reserve battalions.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Will » 23 Oct 2014 15:05

pankajs wrote:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hi-tech-surveillance-cameras-to-help-security-forces-zoom-in-on-China/articleshow/44912874.cms

Hi-tech surveillance cameras to help security forces zoom in on China
NEW DELHI: In the wake of increasing Chinese aggression and the difficulty of physically manning the vast India-China border, Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) is acquiring high-end surveillance cameras that can see over 20 km deep into Chinese territory. One such camera has been installed at a border outpost (BoP) in Leh and at least 50 more are in the pipeline.

The acquisition is part of a largescale revamp in China border security infrastructure being undertaken by the government following frequent Chinese incursions in the past couple of years, the latest being over fortnight-long faceoffs in Demchok and Chumar areas of Ladakh last month. Government is already in the process of acquiring vehicles and choppers for the force.

...
On the installation of cameras, Goswami said, "We are fully ready to face any challenge from China. Our boys are well trained and equipped. However, we would like to have more surveillance equipment. We can't have boots everywhere. We have installed a state-of-the-art surveillance camera at Thakung post (north of Chushul) and it can see 20-22 km ahead. We are asking government for more such equipment."

Sources said the camera is equipped for thermal imaging as well and thus can see at night too. The footage from the camera recorded over a period of 10 days would be analyzed to gauge the pattern of Chinese troop movement or infrastructure buildup. Sources said at least 50 BoPs in Ladakh could be given such cameras.

Sources said there are also long-term plans for laying optical fibres along the border. As and when that happens, cameras could be connected to BoPs and eventually with headquarters in Delhi for real time monitoring of the border. There is already a plan afoot to have wireless area network in all BoPs.

The ITBP DG also said two of the 27 proposed roads on the border had been completed are were functioning well. He said the force had also started electronic procurement of its requirements and this had not only brought transparency but also reduced cost and widened the playing field. "We now have 100% e-procurement. This has brought prices of goods down by 20%," Goswami said.

...
The DG also raised a red flag on health hazards of working at high altitudes and hinted at the force needing to have reserve battalions.



Think that was one of the reasons for one of the standoffs with the Chinese in Ladakh. The Chinese didn't like the Indians putting up a Surveillance camera. :twisted:

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22539 » 23 Oct 2014 15:56

And because it is NaMo Govt, they have now the prospect of 50 cameras staring at them. Now they will have to think of the consequences of each of their provocations.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Thakur_B » 23 Oct 2014 16:01

pankajs wrote:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hi-tech-surveillance-cameras-to-help-security-forces-zoom-in-on-China/articleshow/44912874.cms

Hi-tech surveillance cameras to help security forces zoom in on China
NEW DELHI: In the wake of increasing Chinese aggression and the difficulty of physically manning the vast India-China border, Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) is acquiring high-end surveillance cameras that can see over 20 km deep into Chinese territory. One such camera has been installed at a border outpost (BoP) in Leh and at least 50 more are in the pipeline.

The acquisition is part of a largescale revamp in China border security infrastructure being undertaken by the government following frequent Chinese incursions in the past couple of years, the latest being over fortnight-long faceoffs in Demchok and Chumar areas of Ladakh last month. Government is already in the process of acquiring vehicles and choppers for the force.

...
On the installation of cameras, Goswami said, "We are fully ready to face any challenge from China. Our boys are well trained and equipped. However, we would like to have more surveillance equipment. We can't have boots everywhere. We have installed a state-of-the-art surveillance camera at Thakung post (north of Chushul) and it can see 20-22 km ahead. We are asking government for more such equipment."

Sources said the camera is equipped for thermal imaging as well and thus can see at night too. The footage from the camera recorded over a period of 10 days would be analyzed to gauge the pattern of Chinese troop movement or infrastructure buildup. Sources said at least 50 BoPs in Ladakh could be given such cameras.

Sources said there are also long-term plans for laying optical fibres along the border. As and when that happens, cameras could be connected to BoPs and eventually with headquarters in Delhi for real time monitoring of the border. There is already a plan afoot to have wireless area network in all BoPs.

The ITBP DG also said two of the 27 proposed roads on the border had been completed are were functioning well. He said the force had also started electronic procurement of its requirements and this had not only brought transparency but also reduced cost and widened the playing field. "We now have 100% e-procurement. This has brought prices of goods down by 20%," Goswami said.

...
The DG also raised a red flag on health hazards of working at high altitudes and hinted at the force needing to have reserve battalions.


The said "state of the art system" would be Kshitij, BEL's upgraded LORROS system. Army plans to distribute Kshitijs at battalion level.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chaanakya » 23 Oct 2014 16:30

India violating pact, constructing bunkers too close to working boundary: FO

From YAWN

ISLAMABAD: The Foreign Office on Thursday said that Indian forces under the cover of unprovoked firing were engaged in constructing bunkers in locations within five hundred metres of the working boundary.

Speaking to media representatives at the weekly briefing in Islamabad, FO spokeswoman Tasneem Aslam said the construction of these bunkers is in violation of the 2010 agreement between New Delhi and Islamabad.

"Pakistan would never permit this construction which is in violation of a bilateral agreement," Aslam said at the briefing for journalists.

The agreement prohibits any construction, including that of bunkers, within 500 metres of either side of the working boundary.


Speaking about the situation along the Line of Control (LoC), she said: “Kashmiri people also live on the other side of the LoC, and Pakistani armed forces always take their safety in consideration when retaliating to Indian firing along the LoC."

Also read: Modi in Siachen to meet Indian troops for Diwali

She rejected allegations levelled by acting Afghan Interior Minister Umer Daudzai who had said that Pakistan was supplying weapons to the Afghan Taliban. Daudzai had made these allegations while visiting India.

"Pakistan is not supporting any group in Afghanistan and Pakistani security forces are taking decisive action against all militant groups...there is no question of supporting any group by Pakistan," Aslam said.

"Pakistan supports only the new political administration in Kabul," she remarked.

Aslam also briefed the press that the Nepalese Foreign Minister was visiting Pakistan and had invited Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to attend the upcoming Saarc summit in Kathmandu to be held on November 26 and 27.

Regarding Malala Yousufzai, she said: “This young girl has brought honour for Pakistan for which the country is extremely proud of her as well as of her mission of promoting education.

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Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby member_22539 » 23 Oct 2014 16:36

Wow, porkis are starting to sound like MMS govt :D


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