India Border Watch: Security and Operations

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Ashokk
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Ashokk » 28 May 2020 18:41

K2899 has been busy today.

Krita
BRFite
Posts: 191
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 13:33

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Krita » 28 May 2020 18:45

TKiran wrote:
chola wrote:
Being without the virus will haunt them.

They have 4 vaccines at the testing stage that they can't finish because they don't have enough infected.

And with low infection, they constantly need to be on guard like what they locked down 100m in northern China just as their economic engine is revving up. Countries with a high infection rate now will be better off in the future with vaccines and a higher rate of immunity.


That's another wet dream, come September, you won't find Wuhan Corona virus anywhere in the world. All the American pharma companies will loose all the dollars they poured into to find a vaccine.

Corona virus is a biological weapon, it can last only 10 months. After that, there will be no traces of the virus. That's how it is engineered. The people who want to trace back the origin of the virus to Wuhan lab will be very disappointed as by the time Tredos allows the WHO to start investigations, the virus would be gone, untraceable.

Only Modi and very few know this, remember GT was crying aloud when they came to know that India has hacked into Chinese cyberspace and immediately announced lockdown?

Xi is a very confident man and 10 times more powerful now than before the Wuhan Corona virus outbreak. Only kabab me haddi is Modi of India, that's the reason for agression against India.

Marijuana is legalised in India? :rotfl: :rotfl:

Deans
BRFite
Posts: 1298
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Deans » 28 May 2020 19:55

yensoy wrote:
Deans wrote:If we really want to act tough:
- Make China invest in Indian govt bonds or equity, to the extent of their trade deficit

Sir, you do realize that this is financially identical to taking a loan from China, right? The only silver linings being that these loans will be denominated in rupees, and at a reasonable interest rate. Not taking away from the other important points you made which I mostly agree with, but I am perplexed as to why requiring China to give us a massive loan will help us in any way.


The idea is that they invest on OUR terms not theirs. If for e.g. an Indian company can borrow in $ at LIBOR + 3%, make the Chinese company buy
Indian govt bonds at LIBOR. Or Rupee denominated bonds at the inter-bank rate of RBI. The bonds can be used to extinguish higher interest bonds.
Although the Chinese lend at Pathani rates of interest to OBOR countries, there is a huge risk of default. Pakistan has also just found out, in its first audit of CPEC, that they have been screwed by China. The idea may therefore not be unacceptable to China.

In equities, let them buy minority stakes in PSU's, or startups, or in a list of curated listed companies, where there is no risk of Chinese management control (or any say in the running of the company). That is pretty much what they do with their trade surplus with the US.

RajaRudra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 53
Joined: 17 Sep 2019 14:13

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RajaRudra » 28 May 2020 20:39

Deans wrote:
yensoy wrote:Sir, you do realize that this is financially identical to taking a loan from China, right? The only silver linings being that these loans will be denominated in rupees, and at a reasonable interest rate. Not taking away from the other important points you made which I mostly agree with, but I am perplexed .


Why to let the lizard inside the "lungi" and then cry that its irritating. Now is the time to limit/avoid what ever technical/economical links with the lizard. Its time we need to take our money from BRICS bank.

putnanja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4464
Joined: 26 Mar 2002 12:31
Location: searching for the next al-qaida #3

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby putnanja » 28 May 2020 20:40

TKiran wrote:
. Besides, Modi's chair is not at all at risk but xi's neck is surely on the line.


Just assume that you are average Joe in China. Will you admire a leader who restricted the effect of Wuhan virus to Wuhan itself, with minimal damage to life of Hans ?

China is now without the virus. Xi's popularity is highest in China, and envy for EU and USA. Why you call envy as "Xi is in trouble". It's wet dream of EU and USA if "Xi is in trouble". His power has increased mult-fold, you don't like to accept.

It's the incompetence of EU and USA to control the virus, which they want to blame on " Xi".


One needs to take Chinese wuhan virus numbers with a bag of salt. 3-4 million people moved out of Wuhan before lockdown. Majority of them to places within China. Few to outside China. And China didn't have lockdown in many cities. Does one really believe that the millions who went out to other parts of China didnt infect many people, but only those who went to other countries did? Also, China was opposing preventing chinese from entering other countries, and also condemned India when India banned chinese visitors.

And people really believe Chinese numbers on those infected & killed ?? :rotfl:

yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1785
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby yensoy » 28 May 2020 21:56

RajaRudra wrote:
Deans wrote:


Why to let the lizard inside the "lungi" and then cry that its irritating. Now is the time to limit/avoid what ever technical/economical links with the lizard. Its time we need to take our money from BRICS bank.

(deleted earlier comment, sorry I misinterpreted "take our money" as "borrow our money")
We are deeply connected with Lizard's money. Chinese firms have leased aircraft to most of our airlines, including AI and Indigo. They have invested in startups and various other sectors.

isubodh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 58
Joined: 03 Oct 2008 18:23

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby isubodh » 28 May 2020 22:19

yensoy wrote: Chinese firms have leased aircraft to most of our airlines, including AI and Indigo. They have invested in startups and various other sectors.


In that case shouldn't we pass a bill saying that assets of any company from the country impinging our land/sea border border unilaterally will be confiscated. It will be good non-border escalation and threat.

RajaRudra
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 53
Joined: 17 Sep 2019 14:13

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby RajaRudra » 28 May 2020 22:38

yensoy wrote:
(deleted earlier comment, sorry I misinterpreted "take our money" as "borrow our money")


(No worries sir ji, I am crawling in BRF from 2006, i know the intent.)

My point is, we should not differentiate Chinese Investment from their overall strategy.

There is a chance, the Consortium investing in a said Indian company may be doing it is guided by a political officer(Communist official).
With sufficient investment they can arm twist the company to use specific hardware's or even security protocols and there by giving a backdoor entry to the underlying data. Recently i came across a post about Chinese investment Byju's. That i feel is not good. Today they may not be influencing the syllabus / content / point of view there directly but may do in future.

Somehow we may have to go in the direction of freeing ourselves from this Chinese investment net. If option given, we should be giving our support/business to the startups that do not have any Chinese investment.

Sanju
BRFite
Posts: 1181
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 01:00
Location: North of 49

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sanju » 28 May 2020 23:30

Arshyam saar nice post in the previous page.

basant
BRFite
Posts: 285
Joined: 20 Mar 2020 20:58

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby basant » 28 May 2020 23:55

Fighters in Ladakh, over Pyongyang Lake? Very low resolution, can't ID. Looks to me like Mirage 2K/LCA type. But could be Su30s also. Any guesses?

Larry Walker
BRFite
Posts: 287
Joined: 26 Nov 2019 17:33

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Larry Walker » 29 May 2020 01:29

basant wrote:Fighters in Ladakh, over Pyongyang Lake? Very low resolution, can't ID. Looks to me like Mirage 2K/LCA type. But could be Su30s also. Any guesses?


At 5 sec mark I think I can make out a cranked delta shape, so my guess it is LCA.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3699
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby nam » 29 May 2020 02:13

Trawling through tweetar for " world media reaction" and happy to inform it has been well covered that "5000 to 10,000 Chinese troops invaded India".

God bless our useful idiots.

GT is now complaining that this "standoff" is planned by India.

Aarvee
BRFite
Posts: 158
Joined: 14 Oct 2016 07:43

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Aarvee » 29 May 2020 05:57

TKiran wrote:That's another wet dream, come September, you won't find Wuhan Corona virus anywhere in the world. All the American pharma companies will loose all the dollars they poured into to find a vaccine.

Corona virus is a biological weapon, it can last only 10 months. After that, there will be no traces of the virus. That's how it is engineered. The people who want to trace back the origin of the virus to Wuhan lab will be very disappointed as by the time Tredos allows the WHO to start investigations, the virus would be gone, untraceable.

Only Modi and very few know this, remember GT was crying aloud when they came to know that India has hacked into Chinese cyberspace and immediately announced lockdown?

Xi is a very confident man and 10 times more powerful now than before the Wuhan Corona virus outbreak. Only kabab me haddi is Modi of India, that's the reason for agression against India.


Just wow. I sincerely hope you were being sarcastic and not serious.

khan
BRFite
Posts: 830
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 29 May 2020 06:49

Has there been any confirmation that the Chinese have withdrawn or this is just nice talk?


khan
BRFite
Posts: 830
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 29 May 2020 07:58

manjgu wrote:https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1265906678353948672

This guy is a clown. Anyone else?

Deans
BRFite
Posts: 1298
Joined: 26 Aug 2004 19:13
Location: Moscow

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Deans » 29 May 2020 09:25

isubodh wrote:
yensoy wrote: Chinese firms have leased aircraft to most of our airlines, including AI and Indigo. They have invested in startups and various other sectors.


In that case shouldn't we pass a bill saying that assets of any company from the country impinging our land/sea border border unilaterally will be confiscated. It will be good non-border escalation and threat.


A threat to confiscate assets, (even in wartime they are only frozen) will lower our credibility in International financial markets and result in a flight of capital. Better to let them be in a situation where we take their money on our terms - like borrowing at lower rates than elsewhere, or minority stakes in companies.

khan
BRFite
Posts: 830
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 12:31
Location: Tx

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby khan » 29 May 2020 10:04

Couple of news articles indicate that this is still a serious issue:

China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh - LT GEN H S PANAG (RETD)

At the outset, let me be very categoric — just like in 1962, 1965, and 1999, we have once again been surprised both at the strategic and tactical levels. The manner in which we had to rush reinforcements from other sectors gives a clear indication that we were surprised. At the strategic level, it was the failure of the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW) to detect the build-up of the PLA formations from the rear bases to replace the border defence units. Our tactical surveillance with UAVs and patrols has been inadequate to detect this large-scale movement close to the LAC.


No de-escalation in China stand-off

NEW DELHI: There are no signs of any de-escalation in the almost month-long confrontation between Indian and Chinese troops in eastern Ladakh, even as the top Army brass took stock of the "ground situation" with fresh inputs from the military operations and intelligence directorates here on Thursday.


To me it seems like all the nice things the Chinese Ambassador was saying was just a way to settle things down and let China consolidate their new claim line.

ldev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2006
Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby ldev » 29 May 2020 10:13

khan wrote:Couple of news articles indicate that this is still a serious issue:

China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh - LT GEN H S PANAG (RETD)



The most important paragraph from this article:

Be that as it may, we have the capability and the will to stare China down and force it to blink. Neither country wants war, hence diplomacy has to be given the first priority to restore status quo ante 1 April 2020. However, if diplomacy does not work, then India should be prepared for border skirmishes and even a limited war.


And 2 days ago Xi Jinping asked the Chinese armed forces to be prepared for combat without specifying against whom.

arshyam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3825
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby arshyam » 29 May 2020 10:27

khan wrote:Couple of news articles indicate that this is still a serious issue:

China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh - LT GEN H S PANAG (RETD)

The manner in which we had to rush reinforcements from other sectors gives a clear indication that we were surprised.

I don't understand this statement - is the general suggesting that all troops should be stationed right at our claim lines so they don't have to "rush" anywhere? Then why do militaries always, repeat always, retain troops at common nodes to the rear, so they could pivot wherever needed the most? They all should literally be camped at the borders, right?

Second - from which other sectors were troops pulled out and rushed to this area? I don't recall reading about this elsewhere - any details available in the public domain?

The good general's statement only reminds me of Nehru's words about "not an inch will be yielded" and the disastrous forward policy that arose from it.

Srutayus
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 83
Joined: 29 Aug 2016 05:53

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Srutayus » 29 May 2020 10:27

Couple of news articles indicate that this is still a serious issue:

China believes India wants Aksai Chin back. PLA has likely secured 40-60 sq km in Ladakh - LT GEN H S PANAG (RETD)
Take Gen. Panag’s articles with the same bag of salt you do Shukla’s. The motivation for this article is clear in its content and very much in line with the author’s long standing political intent, the evidence is definitely nowhere as clear.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4444
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Cain Marko » 29 May 2020 10:38

Rakesh wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:
:-? :roll:
I don't see why not use DTs rambunctious Twitter melee? Response shouldn't be snooty... But a welcome thank you. It should be, at least in the media, used to point out China's historic wrongs and weaknesses and put them on the defensive

This is the time to show some solidarity vs the dlagon and make it real nervous.

Tweets are not mine Saar :) I onlee do cut-and-paste :lol:

I know Guruji, my response was to the tweets as well, should've taken off your handle though. Maafi..

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4444
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Cain Marko » 29 May 2020 10:43

arshyam wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:This is the time to show some solidarity vs the dlagon and make it real nervous.

Won't this be better addressed to DT instead? Why is the onus always on ourselves to show this, demonstrate that, etc?

Because DT took the first step/initiative via tweet no? A simple media leak or statement by unofficial source welcoming Trump's concern and the need for international inspection of all Chinese activity so far, from Tibet to SCS would make some people nervous wonlee.

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 338
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bharadwaj » 29 May 2020 15:54

Mirage 2000s reportedly scrambled vs j-11s.

http://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/1266221466267181059

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4708
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby chola » 29 May 2020 16:02

Bharadwaj wrote:Mirage 2000s reportedly scrambled vs j-11s.

http://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/1266221466267181059


The Gripen annihilated the J-11 from BVR range during a Thailand-China exercise. The M2K is good, Tejas might even be better because of RCS.

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2820
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 29 May 2020 17:58

According to a Indian express report the Chinese have deployed artillery and mechanised elements (at least 16 tanks) on their side of the LAC opposite the Galwan Valley bringing Indian deployments within striking distance.

prasan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 76
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 19:36

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby prasan » 29 May 2020 18:09


yensoy
BRFite
Posts: 1785
Joined: 29 May 2002 11:31
Location: USA

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby yensoy » 29 May 2020 18:27

Vips wrote:According to a Indian express report the Chinese have deployed artillery and mechanised elements (at least 16 tanks) on their side of the LAC opposite the Galwan Valley bringing Indian deployments within striking distance.

All bluster. We need to keep building. And man the heights where we can roll a boulder on them and their little summer camp.

sajaym
BRFite
Posts: 147
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby sajaym » 29 May 2020 18:36

Awesome! Presence of Mirage-2000s so close to the border indicates that IAF has already been tasked with strike targets, in case the balloon goes up. This means that this time GOI is definitely not planning to repeat Chacha Nehru's 1962 mistake. Jai ho!

dinesh_kimar
BRFite
Posts: 483
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby dinesh_kimar » 29 May 2020 19:33

^Its true, Mirage 2000 was never tasked for Eastern sector, was under Central Command.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8539
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Mort Walker » 29 May 2020 19:35

Bharadwaj wrote:Mirage 2000s reportedly scrambled vs j-11s.

http://twitter.com/hukum2082/status/1266221466267181059


Has this been confirmed from other unofficial sources? Namely J-11s being vectored in from Ngari Kunsha Airport?

Bharadwaj
BRFite
Posts: 338
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 11:09

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Bharadwaj » 29 May 2020 19:39

No. I am having my own doubts if the video is an old one but some of the usual informed tweeters are retweeting it,

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2820
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Vips » 29 May 2020 19:58

yensoy wrote:
Vips wrote:According to a Indian express report the Chinese have deployed artillery and mechanised elements (at least 16 tanks) on their side of the LAC opposite the Galwan Valley bringing Indian deployments within striking distance.

All bluster. We need to keep building. And man the heights where we can roll a boulder on them and their little summer camp.


This is not bluster. According to the article there are satellite photos of the deployment. Do we have artillery and tanks deployed on our side? I want a repeat of 1967 onlee!!!

Sravan
BRFite
Posts: 230
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 15:15

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Sravan » 29 May 2020 20:23

Vips wrote:
yensoy wrote:All bluster. We need to keep building. And man the heights where we can roll a boulder on them and their little summer camp.


This is not bluster. According to the article there are satellite photos of the deployment. Do we have artillery and tanks deployed on our side? I want a repeat of 1967 onlee!!!


We would be better served with Nag or Javelin missiles and LGB. Artillery is useful if you don’t have air superiority. My suggestion is to dominate the air and leverage that to disrupt supply chains and damage infra on their side and provide cover for our ground troops.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4701
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 29 May 2020 21:14

TWITTER

DrApr007:

This is preparation & bravery of our armed forces that enmy is surprised. IA has taken position & builted bunkers near a very strategically important road of enemy in just 48 hours in Laddakh. Just 4 km away from the road.
Don't ask this side or that side of LAC.
Guess the road !
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/126 ... 45601?s=19
________________________

@SJha1618
China's 'semi-official' media is again talking about how China's GDP is 5 times that of India etc. while blaming India for the confrontation. They think they can win without firing a shot. This is perhaps what they need to be disabused of once and for all.
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/126 ... 67904?s=19

Given the nature of the Himalayan frontier, contact warfare between infantry units is a given. Here China's great GDP, progress etc. will matter much much less than whose soldiers are more battle-hardened, better acclimatized & more experienced in mountain operations.
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/126 ... 38050?s=19

darshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2283
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby darshan » 29 May 2020 21:20

What was Genghis' GDP vs Chinese doll dynasty?

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4701
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby Manish_Sharma » 29 May 2020 21:25

sudeepj wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:

...

You can keep laughing, but just remember to wake up. Several hundred LCH, Tejas, and Dhanush are needed yesterday to deal with the Chinese and TSP simultaneously.


Please tell me, why you think India wont request foreign arms if we are fighting a 4-6 week existential war! What happens after the magic 4-6 weeks time is over?


We don't have money to keep importing and fighting, we had no money to pay for 126 Rafale so just bought 36.

We don't even have money to order production of LCH even though defense Minister gets photographed with it on its completion.

UAE paid 145 million dollars per F16 in last decade. We don't have pockets for it....

We are struggling to pay salaries and pensions.

shaun
BRFite
Posts: 1156
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Postby shaun » 29 May 2020 22:08

chetak wrote:
Deans wrote:
My book `2022, India's two front war' (Kindle/ Amazon) talks of exactly this point. Among other things I look at how the Chinese merchant trade
can be hit badly, because they are very vulnerable at certain choke-points. It would require more cooperation between friendly navies, but that is
happening and the pace has increased given the current situation. China can't really retaliate because our merchant fleet is negligible in size.
A simpler way to hit China would be to increase tariffs and non tariff barriers like:
- Minimum floor price for imports of certain products (prevents under-invoicing)
- Countries unfriendly to India (i.e. defending terrorism against India, or investing in POK) barred from govt/ PSU tenders.
- data storage in India for non friendly countries (US can get a waiver as part of a trade negotiation).
- Anti dumping duty
-Consumer products have to meet Indian labelling and quality standards.
- Increase duty to the limit allowed by WTO on predominantly Chinese imported products.
- Include HK in goods originating from China.

If we really want to act tough:
- Make China invest in Indian govt bonds or equity, to the extent of their trade deficit
- Liberalised trade regime with Taiwan
- Work with US, Japan, Taiwan to find instances of Chinese dumping /trade cheating (e.g. using Thailand, or B'desh to finish their products and
claim 0 duty imports into India).


This alone can reduce Chinese imports by about $ 20-25 Billion and increase our duty collections by around $ 5 billion (40,000 cr) AND provide a boost to our manufacturing.


Deans saar,

These are great ideas and workable too.


Great ..thank you




Return to “Trash Can Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 26 guests