India Border Watch: Security and Operations

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 09:57

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 682801.cms

One killed in fresh Pak firing in J&K, India asks troops to retaliate strongly

NEW DELHI: India has ruled out any flag meeting with Pakistan until firing at the border stops, according to Times Now.

Indian forces have also been asked to retaliate strongly to every Pak provocation at the border, Times Now has reported quoting sources.

...
Meanwhile, India has turned the heat on Pakistan with massive retaliatory fire in response to ceasefire violations along the line of control (LoC) as well as the International Border (IB) in Jammu and Kashmir, leading to civilian casualties on both sides.

Intelligence agencies tracking reports in Pakistani media on Tuesday estimated that more than 15 Pakistani civilians had died in the firing by BSF soldiers, mainly in the Sialkot sector.

The offensive intent of the Indian security establishment was also evident during the weekly DGMO hotline talks on Tuesday, with the Indian Army warning its Pakistani counterpart that the response to any provocation would be "intense, immediate and more than adequate" in keeping with the directions issued by Army chief General Dalbir Singh Suhag.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Oct 2014 10:23

Just watched Arnabs Shoutathon...this guy has the knack taking the pants of Pakee guests..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u-CeH3Eavw
couple of things... the Porkis have targeted an Indian village 5Km inside the international border with accurate fire with 120mm mortars to hit a crowded home celebrating a birthday, probably by accident, or there was some local spotter who was relaying co-ordinates. The response from Indian side was by BSF with small arms, MMG and 1200mm mortars. This is in the IB, surprisingly the LOC is quite (until now).
Sheshadri chari of the BJP's foreign cell made two statements..
1) Vinasha Kale Vibaritha Bukthi - the PA seems to have got into a destructive mode...
2) Is this situation escalated, IT WILL BE THE END OF PAKISTAN.

tough talking, not like the dossier kind... i think there is more to come...
Edit: It is the BSF using Mortars and not the IA.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 08 Oct 2014 10:47

Latest update, the Border Posts which fired and the Observation tower used to direct mortar have been destroyed. 15 uniformed Jihadis converted to manure.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 08 Oct 2014 11:36

The Army and BSF has got a great opportunity to destroy Paki terror launchpads. I hope India utilizes this opportunity very well. If needed let the IAF also be used.
Also if the Pakis dont stop then capture 45 km of Paki territory all along the border and merge it with India. If further Pakis are escalating as mentioned lets end the nation of Pakistan.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 14:41

Aviator Anil Chopra ‏@Chopsyturvey 24m24 minutes ago

Rattled by Retaliation, Pak Army has ordered Pak TV Channels not to telecast the casualties in Pakistan Side. @DrShobha

EconomicTimes ‏@EconomicTimes 1h1 hour ago

Sources: #Pakistani TV channels asked not to broadcast news on damage due to firing along international border, LoC (Times Now)

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Oct 2014 16:26

we need to develop the infra at border to lob in 40,000 shells in a span of 48 hours. Entire areas should be cleansed in as short period of time as possible. Quantity is very important here and has pristine quality to it.

What this will achieve is that the terrorist army will have to indulge in repeated provocations to rake up the issue, which then makes India's point for it.

If we take 6-12 days to lob in 40,000 shells then TSPA gets 11 days to do the rounds in western countries with a sorry face and a begging bowl.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Oct 2014 18:05

^^^ seriously?? 40,000 shells? it will only make their stance stronger, they have suicidal/jihadi mindset plus enormous hatred for India.

Do a precision strike on their firing positions and field HQ and don't make a fuss about it. Destroy the infrastructure that they are using to launch any attacks. If we will make it too bloody for them we would be kind of forcing their hand into more retaliatory strikes.

At this point of time in escalating violence these border posts should be handed over to Army for calculated response instead of indiscriminate fire.

Our response should be 100% professional with least collateral damage.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 08 Oct 2014 18:11

Collateral damage to Paki civilians should be viewed as an added bonus. I have zero sympathy for them.

member_28714 · Post by **member_28714** » 08 Oct 2014 18:12

Sid wrote:^^^ seriously?? 40,000 shells? it will only make their stance stronger, they have suicidal/jihadi mindset plus enormous hatred for India.

Do a precision strike on their firing positions and field HQ and don't make a fuss about it. Destroy the infrastructure that they are using to launch any attacks. If we will make it too bloody for them we would be kind of forcing their hand into more retaliatory strikes.

At this point of time in escalating violence these border posts should be handed over to Army for calculated response instead of indiscriminate fire.

Our response should be 100% professional with least collateral damage.

What we really need is a cheaper Bramhos with 100KM range. Something that can be housed at a safe distance and will not follow a ballistic trajectory. Pinaka or other MBRL's are just not effective enough for precision strikes. And heavy arty takes too long to cause effective damage.

Currently Bramhos costs approx $4 million including support infra. If we can make a 100km cruiser with 100kg payload for $500K - 1 mil each, we can reduce their border infra to dust in a day.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Oct 2014 18:27

>> Our response should be 100% professional with least collateral damage.

why do you want to reduce collateral damage. We must aim for maximum collateral damage. The chief reason being all these collaterally damaged will be displaced and become new IDP's and descend upon Lahore.

So each time a Paki Jernail thinks about getting into a shooting match at the border, he is looking at more wretched IDP's looming around in Lahore.

Throw anything and everything at them within shortest period of time. Quantity is quality.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Oct 2014 18:45

This is one of those situations where no one wants to either escalate situation or back down first without losing their face. India has been backing out till now but stood her ground this time and hence the stalemate.

Solution?
1. Do more damage to military installations with less media coverage. Message must be delivered to right recipient.
2. Do not escalate the situation which will be beyond repair for both the side. Even Porkies have not cross a certain ~5-10Km threshold on IB.
2.1. This requires professional handling of situation, specially from Army. BSF is not equipped or trained to do it (no offense to BSF).
3. Do not spill civilian blood. This only gives Porkies moral high ground and a legitimate reason to fight back and dig in their heels.
4. Use electronic media effectively.
4.1 Social media should be filled with plight of people who are effected by Porky onslaught.
4.2 National media should be controlled and allowed to publish only relevant news, instead of ultra jingoistic blood mongering happening on shows right now.

Control the information, opinion of people and battlefield (which US understood after their loses). This is not a tough battle for India to win.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 08 Oct 2014 18:48

habal wrote:>> Our response should be 100% professional with least collateral damage.

why do you want to reduce collateral damage. We must aim for maximum collateral damage. The chief reason being all these collaterally damaged will be displaced and become new IDP's and descend upon Lahore.

So each time a Paki Jernail thinks about getting into a shooting match at the border, he is looking at more wretched IDP's looming around in Lahore.

Throw anything and everything at them within shortest period of time. Quantity is quality.

And what makes you think that they cannot do the same to us in retaliation? What about IDP in India?

What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Oct 2014 18:53

Sid wrote:And what makes you think that they cannot do the same to us in retaliation? What about IDP in India?

What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?

they live right upto the border, we don't. Their side is more densely populated than ours. In case of artillery firing across IB, our cards get even better, we can fire right upto Bahria township Lahore. Our villages are far more towards the interior. So if they talk the language of 120 mm mortar, then they are basically playing into our hands.

Why don't you want to be more barbarian than porkies ? What image do you think we need to convey to them ?

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 08 Oct 2014 18:55

Future packee shining star tweeted : "Another attack on LOC. seems India adopting Israle model vs Pakistan.Modi must realize we can retaliate unlike his victims from Gujarat."

Idiot cant even spell Israel right ..

Im pleasantly surprised with Modi Govt walking the talk w.r.t. the packees.

The powers that be in that Mujahideen Army need this lesson to understand that their old antics wont work with Modi Govt.

Localized heavy firing till their guns stop, best way to make the mujahids understand, India means business.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 19:21

Saba Eitizaz ‏@sabaeitizaz

DG Rangers says ongoing firing n shelling on the border are the worst in decades. Says heavier shelling being used than 71' war

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 08 Oct 2014 19:29

pankajs wrote:
Saba Eitizaz ‏@sabaeitizaz

DG Rangers says ongoing firing n shelling on the border are the worst in decades. Says heavier shelling being used than 71' war

I waiting - as per Mushy - for the Puki Army to lose their patience.

-M

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 08 Oct 2014 19:30

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 08 Oct 2014 19:35

pankajs wrote:
Saba Eitizaz ‏@sabaeitizaz

DG Rangers says ongoing firing n shelling on the border are the worst in decades. Says heavier shelling being used than 71' war

hah ... fattus will start talking of nuclear thresholds/capability by tomorrow ...

jernails getting so much garmi by 120 mm mortars of BSF ...

Wonder what they'd do if IA is let loose.

Must mobilize Smerch/Grad/Pinaka batteries as a "routine operational exercise" and release pictures.

The pics will def cause massive graand faat of the Jernails.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Oct 2014 19:37

India should stop testing patience of Pakistan Army: Pervez Musharraf

123 .. testing .. testing .. Halo .. Halo ..

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Oct 2014 19:42

Pakis are talking a lot after occupying Indian land. Let's not forget that. What is meaning of paki casualties? Nothing at all. Hopefully IA can stop pakis in any construction activities now on and let the jihadis in uniform freeze in cold.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 08 Oct 2014 19:45

The biggest H&D loss would be precision Indian retaliation killing some Baki with a rank of kernail or higher (they are always from the feudal families that rule Bakistan). If that happens, we will see them running to the negotiation table with their soiled white chaddis held up as a flag. Low level folks are nothing but jeehardi cannon fodder and they will be killed either in the eastern border or in the western one.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 08 Oct 2014 20:03

That mongrel Paki Journo, Wajahat Khan.. Is spouting pure distilled conspiracy crap on twitter, the level of crazy is nearing Zaid Hamid's exalted levels. Also, the whole paki twitterati is up in arms gunning for Modi.

It's heartening to see Wily "Internet hindus" give it back with extra interest included.

We need targeted killings of the TSPA jarnail / Karnail who had this brilliant idea of escalating things. I would heartily recommend also the leading lights of this escalatory ideology.

<cough>Hamid Gul</cough>

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 20:32

Tajinder Pal S Bagga ‏@tajinderbagga 47m47 minutes ago

Pakistan is complaining to United Nations like Dehati Aurat

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 08 Oct 2014 20:34

why is not the Indian MSM covering India's retaliaion? I tuned on to times now and other Indian channels and all I find is injured Indian civillians and clamors of Modi not doing enough to stop the poak-roaches...

Is the Indian response covered in news channels when you view them from India? I understand that what is broadcast in times now etc in the US is not the exact same live content in India.it is selective and pre recorded..

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 08 Oct 2014 20:44

Sid wrote:
What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?

Oh Phuleeese !! Barbarians understand barbarity and nothing else !! If that is what will stop them from lobbing shells at our residential areas and killing our people....go for it. Knowing all that we know about Pukis and their doctrine, the moment we start empathizing with their suffering, we introduce dhimmitude, which in my opinion is puke worthy.

For the Pukees, all I have to say is "Yippee-kay-ay MoFos"

-M

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Oct 2014 21:09

Gini RKhan ‏@giniromet 45m45 minutes ago

First see what is happening in POK. People out on streets against Pakistan.."

Gini RKhan ‏@giniromet 45m45 minutes ago

Ppl in PoK chanting slogans against Pakistan govt

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 08 Oct 2014 21:13

khan · Post by **khan** » 08 Oct 2014 21:24

gakakkad wrote:why is not the Indian MSM covering India's retaliaion? I tuned on to times now and other Indian channels and all I find is injured Indian civillians and clamors of Modi not doing enough to stop the poak-roaches...

Is the Indian response covered in news channels when you view them from India? I understand that what is broadcast in times now etc in the US is not the exact same live content in India.it is selective and pre recorded..

This is an excellent point. There is a PR was to be won.

Unlike the Pakistani's the entire chain on command on the Indian side is answerable to the public.

It seems like the Pakistanis have clamped down on the reporting of casualties on their end. To counter that India should leak casualty estimates to the media.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 08 Oct 2014 21:31

pankajs wrote:
Gini RKhan ‏@giniromet 45m45 minutes ago

First see what is happening in POK. People out on streets against Pakistan.."
Gini RKhan ‏@giniromet 45m45 minutes ago

Ppl in PoK chanting slogans against Pakistan govt

More on that please. This is something new.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 08 Oct 2014 21:34

I have been thinking of three innovations that might help in this scenario (some of it may be implausible):
1) Shells/Rockets that have a Ballistic part and a non Ballistic part that gets released at the highest point of flight (velocity = 0). The non Ballistic part should be a sensor fused cluster ammunition that then rains on anything that moves below.
2) Remote controlled sniper rifles on drones to take out high ranking officials from across the border.
3) Automatic machine guns triggered by motion sensors, either mounted on drones or balloons.

I am sure (2) and (3) can be done without much difficulty. It will be very handy for exterminating the right pigs at the right time.

Added later: One more: CBUs on heavy-high altitude balloons. The CBUs can easily glide across the border and flatten a whole firing site.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Oct 2014 21:35

Hafiz Kutta was spotted roaming along LOC villages where firing is taking place. Intelligence sources reported. can't we target him while there is firing going on. This could be golden opportunity to get that Pig .

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 08 Oct 2014 22:14

Sid wrote: And what makes you think that they cannot do the same to us in retaliation? What about IDP in India?

err..we already have IDP.

They are called Pandits.

What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?

YES.

overwhelming and disproportionate and indiscriminate response.

this is war. what do we care about what pakis think if we are civilized or barbarians like that even matters a whit.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 08 Oct 2014 22:16

Fresh firing up along 3 points along LOC in Jammu

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 08 Oct 2014 22:17

Expecting a long night of firing..Probably precision strikes of their cover may be required.

conan · Post by **conan** » 08 Oct 2014 22:27

Mini Kargil re-duex? Nawaz in PM chair, Army starts limited war on border that they can never win. Nawaz approaching UN (as opposed USA). Where do the Pakis go from here?

wig · Post by **wig** » 08 Oct 2014 22:35

views of paki "eminent legal expert"

'Indians feeling heat of Zarb-e-Azb military operation'
Indians are feeling heat of Zarb-e-Azb military operation being carried out by the Pakistan Army in tribal areas, says Syed Mujib, an eminent legal expert.

Talking on working boundary situation, the legal expert said that it looks as if Indians were upset over the successful Zarb-e-Azb operation by Pakistan Army. He said that continuous shelling by the Indian forces on civilians had claimed several lives and injuries to many others which is a clear violation of international law and breach of ratified cease fire agreement.

At this juncture, Mujib suggested Pakistan ought to start hectic diplomacy to convince the world community that Indians were playing on the wrong side of pitch and get India declared an irresponsible nuclear power.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/national/0 ... zarb-e-azb

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 08 Oct 2014 22:44

Mihaylo wrote:
Sid wrote:
What message we would be sending? That we are even more barbarians then Porkies are?

Oh Phuleeese !! Barbarians understand barbarity and nothing else !! If that is what will stop them from lobbing shells at our residential areas and killing our people....go for it. Knowing all that we know about Pukis and their doctrine, the moment we start empathizing with their suffering, we introduce dhimmitude, which in my opinion is puke worthy.

For the Pukees, all I have to say is "Yippee-kay-ay MoFos"

-M

Who were more cruel, the barbarians or the Romans? It is a fiberal delusion that civilization and cruelty are mutually exclusive. It is when the civilized cease to be cruel enough with the barbarians that they start loosing. Well guess what, our days of being kind are over.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Oct 2014 22:59

Why are we raising barbarism argument when PoJ&K is our land. The jihadis started firing first.

By the way, giving strong responses ( however inadequate ) to jihadis doesn't make anyone less civilized to other civilized. Unless some powerful nations ie fourfathers of jihadis start blaming India for their jihadis munnas getting their mush smashed.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 08 Oct 2014 23:11

Why do ppl bring in rubbish about not targeting their civilians? As far as I am concerned 5-10 km inside porkiland should be a death zone for these vermins. Just use metal rain concept.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 08 Oct 2014 23:14

Pukees are probably doing this on purpose. To divert attention from state elections and give Modi haters a chance to beat on him as 'see...see he's campaigning out here while soldiers are dying'

MSIyer calling for diplomatic contacts/peace with Pukees makes perfect sense now.