China Watch Thread-I

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Altair » 12 Aug 2015 22:47

Massive Explosion in Tianjin, https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/631523648671752192
400+ injured

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Rahul M » 13 Aug 2015 02:20

it is pretty big. looks like industrial accident. hopefully it's an industrial area and not many people live nearby.
this wont help the bad sentiments with economy. clearly not a good time for our chinese friends.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Shreeman » 13 Aug 2015 04:56

Pretty big is an understatement. On a scale of 0 to 1, this is a 7.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby sooraj » 13 Aug 2015 09:50

The morning after the Tianjin catastrophe

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Shreeman » 13 Aug 2015 11:02

Usual shock and awe value of industrial accidents, but this is no halifax. some small businesses will go under. <10B total loss. life goes on for those that werent in the wrong place.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby panduranghari » 13 Aug 2015 12:03

West accuses China for building things when they are not needed. Now they officially need to rebuild this. Will go a long way to stimulate their economy. I wonder if this was intentional. The long march has proven Chinese leadership does not care of the people except themselves. Could this be something we will see more often?

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby niran » 13 Aug 2015 16:30

one more pic to look at

Image

they say it was a chemical warehouse that blew up, this raises a question where are the toxic fumes? what chemical apart from Nitrates and its derivatives blows up with damages conversely proportional to its weight but without residual toxic fumes? this sounds like epic fire cracker failures like those on youtubes.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Aug 2015 17:35

From the radius of destruction, this is more like Hiroshima minus radiation, hain? Note that all bldgs were concrete here, not paper and wood like in Hiroshima.

Hiroshima was an air burst at 5000 feet or so (1 mile up in the air).

Here I think there was a ground level blast, then a MUCH bigger air-burst maybe at 200-500 feet, looking at the videos. Like the first blast went upwards, then there was a huge flash that saturated all the cameras that captured the first and didn't get burned. Look at the acres and acres of incinerated cars, the kilometers of apt complexes with no windows left...

Fuel-air bum with the fuel shooting up from the first blast? Must have been a supersonic shock wave, not just a pressure wave, to have caused so much damage so far away - no 1/r or 1/r^2 decay.

IOW, a nice deflagration to detonation transition (DDT) inside a burning dense fuel-air cloud? Can this happen naturally?

Can the pakis /xinjiang Liberation Front **NOT** have a role in something as spectacular as this? Makes all those soosai bums look like firecrackers.

I think death toll is waaaay understated, unless the whole nbd was empty. It may be like 44 dead, 4400 missing as in vaporized/pulverized. Nothing and no one could have survived anywhere for several hundred meters radius. They are only showing injuries from the flying glass, no burns so far. Which means only pics from the far outskirts.

The SeeEnnEnn fellow who was "swarmed" and shut down, said he was over 2km from the explosion at a light rail station. Totally trashed. OK, shock waves blew out the windows. But did u also see the BURNT, TWISTED metal pieces at his feet? Did those come flying from the explosion, or was it local secondary fires/blasts?

Also see Al Guardian hand-held video (who was pointing videocam in that direction at night, I wonder). Clear double blast, noise comes an instant before the windows blast inwards. That's a good few km away.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Sen_K » 13 Aug 2015 17:58


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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 13 Aug 2015 18:02

This one shows long delay between the 2 blasts. The camera was shielded from both blasts by several buildings - only shows edge of fireball.

And... what causes the fear

warehouse at the centre of the blasts was storing at least 700 tonnes of the poison sodium cyanide.

According to Center for Disease Control and Prevention this is a “highly toxic chemical asphyxiant” and exposure to it can be “rapidly fatal”.

It has whole-body (systemic) effects, particularly affecting those organ systems most sensitive to low oxygen levels: the central nervous system (brain), the cardiovascular system (heart and blood vessels), and the pulmonary system (lungs). Sodium cyanide is used commercially for fumigation, electroplating, extracting gold and silver from ores, and chemical manufacturing. Hydrogen cyanide gas released by sodium cyanide has a distinctive bitter almond odor (others describe a musty “old sneakers smell”).

The CDC guidance on how the emergency workers should respond to a leak of the chemical helps explain why Beijing sent a 217-strong team of “Nuclear, Biological and Chemical specialist to the scene (see earlier).

Responders should use a NIOSH-certified Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear (CBRN) Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) with a Level A protective suit when entering an area with an unknown contaminant or when entering an area where the concentration of the contaminant is unknown. Level A protection should be used until monitoring results confirm the contaminant and the concentration of the contaminant.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 13 Aug 2015 20:00

there was a mushroom like a tactical nuke, which happens for very high temp explosion perhaps.

meantime tight control is being exercised on media. unofficial sources claim a dock workers dormitory housing some 2000 workers has been flattened and its not been possible so far to check under it how many casualties.

NYT

During a news conference on Thursday afternoon, Wen Wurui, a senior environmental official, played down the threat of contaminated air, saying emission readings in the city had dropped to safe levels in the hours after the initial blasts.

“The pollution will mostly spread to the Bohai Sea, and it will have no effect on Beijing,” he said, referring to waters east of Tianjin.

As the extent of the disaster became apparent on Thursday, government officials moved quickly to control the flow of information. Comments on social media criticizing the government were promptly deleted, and for much of the day, the city’s main news channel played Korean soap operas :roll: , prompting ridicule on social media.

One man who claimed to be an employee of the channel, Tianjin TV, took the rare step of openly castigating the government on social media. The man said that the station had sent 100 reporters into the field but that the authorities had insisted that only reports from central government news outlets like CCTV be used.

In another posting, Yang Anyi, a local university student, ridiculed broadcasts that featured government officials, including Tianjin’s mayor, Huang Xingguo, and President Xi Jinping, who urged rescue workers to wage an “all-out effort” to save the injured and contain the fire.

“Why the hell give him such big coverage while he is not the one who got injured!” she wrote.

The Tianjin Internet Police issued a warning that those who spread rumors about the accident would be “severely dealt with according to the law.”

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby niran » 14 Aug 2015 07:30

Singha wrote:The Tianjin Internet Police

they have internet polis :shock:

as UB janab says from the fotos it looks like Hiroshima minus radiation most proilly art work of friendly neighborhood mujs, or maybe the place was doubled up as ISI bomb making/training facility.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 14 Aug 2015 08:27

yes these police monitor for any anti-party activity and perhaps run the 50center forum trolls guild also :)

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby hnair » 14 Aug 2015 11:09

btw, where are the 50 cent chappies?

Keep an eye on this highest grossing PLA movie ever

The Taking of Tiger Mountain

Funded by PLA's very own propaganda studio, August First Film Studio, this movie has just popped up in Netflix. Too soon and too frantic.

The plot is from a PLA version of a Marvel/DC novel, which was only one of the "Eight approved Peking Opera" storylines during cultural stuff

The movie is a pisko goldmine and is in line with the "make China look like a western country" mindset.
- "Lovable PLA boys" has been given a westernized upgrade, from the way they hold weapons to shooting posture to a geeky soldier or two with adorable boyish looks. None of the scruffy, personal hygeine lacking PLA types we have seen from third-party photos. Hollywood like cuddly character studies, a marked departure from the matter-of-fact peking-opera genre and the Hong Kong Bullet-ballad/Triad genres
- Good editing skills. Probably outsourced
- Cold weather camera work is getting better, but not yet comparable to the scandinavian or Teton Gravity Research lads mark
- set design has top-Renminbi behind it

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 14 Aug 2015 18:42

I would rather watch it than any karan johar/khan creation. the trailer looks reasonable....atleast no worse than the marvel/DC crap that is the staple rice and dal of hollywood these days.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby hnair » 14 Aug 2015 22:29

Did Karan Johar provide propaganda videos for Indian Army? Else why are we dragging Karan Johar, of all people, into a "torn lungi tattered chaddi" argument and throw in Marvell/DC's nerd-p0rn in passing?

I was posting a link with a few observation on the improved quality (thanks to external consulting and PLA financing, which did not happen before). This is like Hughes Aerospace-Long March kind of "let us upgrade Chini sector" relationship. Editing has 400% pawprints of khan editors. Soft power till now for China was in cheap goods, not entertainment or broadcast.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 15 Aug 2015 11:52

america has always extended a helping hand, the hollywood portrayals of chinese characters are usually fighting,fierce, loyal...indians are at best cunning, at worst weak and cowardly, mired in poverty.

meantime it seems water hoses of firefighters initially on the spot could have mixed with some chemical to form a explosive gas which helped with the big explosions later.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/ ... B220150815

japan sat captured this image.

Image

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Shreeman » 15 Aug 2015 13:36

$10B doesnt buy much anymore -- http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/695/cpsp ... er_624.jpg

Not a pretty sight -- http://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/2e3b0c82e ... r/4270.jpg

but what keeps the eggs-ploding two days on. Mere rain into some mixture? 4kms empty is something, next it will be a dead bay, and much later the neighboring countries will measure toxins japan tsunami style.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Vayutuvan » 15 Aug 2015 21:28

Shreeman your second picture link is showing a non existent jpg.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 15 Aug 2015 21:34

Imagine what a 300 tomahawk strike by Khan on the coast could do with such tinderboxes.
They have already converted some 3 Ohio's to each cart some 150 iirc.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Aug 2015 06:43

1,000 new cars/vans burnt to cinders? At say $20K each, that is $20,000,000. Nah, that's just 20 million dollars, which is very little. With all the buildings gone, it may be a couple of billion dollars. Plus, as they say, if there was a dormitory with 2000 inside the zone of total destruction... but who cares about poor migrant workers who sleep in a dorm?

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Vayutuvan » 16 Aug 2015 11:42

Did they have a houkou?

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 17 Aug 2015 01:43

I think the Faithphool in Xinjiang have claimed 'credit' but that may be the 50centers setting up the excuse for the next flurry of Flee Tour Gloups to the Gobi Re-Education Centers. Or in the case of Xinjiang, just firing squads.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 17 Aug 2015 13:05

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08 ... patriates/

The Obama administration reportedly has warned the Chinese government to stop sending intelligence agents to the U.S. in an effort to persuade Chinese expatriates to return to their home country.

The reported warning comes amid a period of growing tension between Washington and Beijing over several issues. Among them are the theft of U.S. government personnel data in a cyberattack thought to have been carried out by China, and the devaluation of the country's currency earlier this month, in a move that rocked the global economy.

According to The New York Times, undercover agents for Beijing's Ministry of Public Security have entered America, likely on trade or tourism visas, and used " various strong-arm tactics" to pressure migrants to return home. U.S. officials told the paper that the tactics included making threats against relatives still in China.

The Beijing government has dubbed the initiative Operation Fox Hunt, and claims it is part of renewed efforts to stamp out corruption in the communist country. According to the Times, the Ministry of Public Security says that more than 930 corruption suspects had been returned to China from all over the world since the beginning of 2014. It is not clear how many returned from the United States, nor is it clear how many Chinese expatriates in the U.S. are currently being sought by Beijing.

Chinese agents are prevented by law from making arrests on foreign soil, and Beijing does not have an extradition treaty with Washington. Mark Raimondi, a Justice Department spokesman, told the Times that Chinese agents are required to give evidence to the department before U.S. law enforcement could act.

On several occasions, Raimondi said, "China has not provided the evidence we have requested."

Experts who have examined the names of China's top 100 fugitives tell the Times that they don't believe those listed are truly high-priority criminals, but are rather targeted by Beijing for so-called "political crimes."

U.S. officials told the Times that both the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security have been gathering information about the activities of Chinese agents in the U.S., interviewing several of the expatriates in the process. However, the officials declined to discuss specific activities by the agents.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby ramana » 17 Aug 2015 20:47

So US is the new UK for Chinese scofflaws!!!!

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 18 Aug 2015 07:27

china has released a list of top 100 economic fugitives few months ago in april 2015

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies ... -fugitives

The list published by the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection has far more detailed information than that released by Interpol.

It includes a photo of each fugitive, their gender, former positions of employment, mainland personal identification number, passport details, date of fleeing and the nations they are suspected of escaping to. It also describes their alleged crimes.

The CCDI said the names on the list were only a fraction of those targeted in its global hunt.

“Implementing Sky Net’s :twisted: strategic operation, the Interpol National Central Bureau for China has issued red notices for a list of 100 civil servants and other alleged criminals wanted for corruption,” the CCDI said on its website.

One of the fugitives on the list is Cheng Muyang, a former manager at a Beijing-based advertising company and a Hong Kong company director with a permanent Hong Kong identity card. He fled to Canada in August 2000. Mainland website Thepaper.cn said that Cheng was the son of late Hebei provincial party secretary Cheng Weigao.

Forty of the fugitives fled to the United States, 26 to Canada and five to Hong Kong; the rest went to New Zealand, Australia, Thailand and Singapore.

Nearly half of them were heads of government departments or corporations. :twisted:

Others were policemen, accountants, corporate treasurers and bank staff. Many held more than one personal Chinese ID card and had multiple passports.

The list includes fugitives who fled from 1996 to 2014, with most having taken flight between 2011 and 2013 and from 2001 to 2002. Most are accused of bribery, corruption and embezzlement.

Most come from rich coastal provinces such as Guangdong, Zhejiang and Jiangsu .

President Xi Jinping launched a massive anti-corruption campaign after coming to power in 2013. Sky Net’s predecessor, “Operation Fox Hunt”, netted 680 officials last year.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Shreeman » 18 Aug 2015 13:15

Cant edit old posts now. There is a hundreds feet by hundreds feet by hundreds feet lake in the explosion hole in the missing image. In re. damages -- the warehouse that exploded housed 100s tonnes of several chemicals. Roughly 100s millions. Warehouse, clearances, chemicals. Just that ruihai one. In re. cars, upwards of 5000 were destroyed at last count. At 20k+ -- volkswagon and renault alone account for 100+million. I argue that these two warehouses account for 100sM to 2B in damages, reliable count not possible.

Now comes the interesting part -- the fire department. Was at the scene prior to the eggsploding. Lost quite a few engines. Individually owned cars, parked all around the warehouses of port and warehouse employees, also in the thousands. I argue that the fire engines (in dozens, not less than 100ks) and thousands of individually owned cars (crushed like cans by the eggsplosion) are not small damage.

And then the major cost part. Rows upon rows of containers in three surrounding lots, along with quite a few trucks carrying them. All more or less vaporized. Many many logistics companies were reporting disaster on live threads (employees chiming in) with numbers in 10sM at least for each. Reliable count impossible. I conjecture this is where the meat of the loss lies. Uninsured or self-insured by these small/medium logistics companies. I tag this at 5+B just from the tone of the comments.

Finally, lost infrastructure, cost of lives, buildings, ruined houses repair/replacement, replacement glass, treatment costs of thousands of injured, loss of productivity at shuttered places like deere and toyota (1+ week, more than one line of toyota, for example) and loss of port capacity (1 week is 2% capacity for the part eggsploded). Ores are coming in, everything else is probably rerouting. This is not small time loss.

Lost land (6+ warehouses, several square km, more or less forever contaminated). Cant be cheap.

I dont see how this fits under 10B. I havent even added compensation to the dead and injured -- several thousand people.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2015 16:36

Not mention loss of face since Chinese chemicals don't normally explode, they go peacefully and serenely. But this corruption Foxhunt seems very interesting. I didn't understand this part:
five to Hong Kong
Huh? Isn't that now part of PRC as far as access for friendly serene PLA Secret Polis to go wake up ppl at 3AM?
None seem to have run away to evil yindoostan or even tarrel and deepel fliends?
US real estate market may depend on these ppl.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2015 16:42

More on the excitement of being a Top Exec in PRC:
(CNN)Ten senior executives of the company that owned the warehouse site that exploded in the Chinese city of Tianjin have been detained, state media reported Tuesday, as authorities promised to investigate the cause of the disaster.

Li Liang, the president of Tianjin Dongjiang Port Rui Hai International Logistics Co, which stores and transports chemicals, was among those being held, as was the company's vice president, Cao Haijun, and Song Qi, the chief financial officer.
They have been under detention since August 13. Earlier reports had said two unnamed executives of the firm were in detention.


Man! If India did this to banks that don't function, the entire Board of Indian Bank would be breaking new ground in the Himalayas.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 18 Aug 2015 17:01

Yuan Yuan's grief for her only brother is tinged with anger.
Seventeen-year-old Yuan Hai was the youngest of 50 firefighters killed in the deadly blasts that hit China's port city of Tianjin on August 12. Of the 57 people still missing, 52 are firefighters.


Apologies for completely tasteless and ghoulish observation, but how can there be 'brothers' or 'sisters' in the PRC? What happened to the one-child rule? Tragic in this case, of course. One learns something new every day.

Now comes CNN doing what it does best
question whether the firefighters' initial response -- trying to put out a chemical fire with water -- caused the subsequent explosion, as some chemicals stored in the facility are known to react violently with water.
International procedure for incidents involving hazardous materials usually requires firefighters to identify the hazards and their locations before responding to the fire.
Firefighter Wang Yuan, who was one of first firefighters at the scene, told Beijing News, a state-owned newspaper, that he and his fellow firefighters had barely been introduced to foam and sand -- regular extinguishers for chemical fires -- during practice. He told local reporters they had mostly practiced using water pressurized guns.


So it was all the fault of the 100+ dead and many wounded firefighters?

China, a nation of nearly 1.4 billion, has about 150,000 official firefighters and more than 115, 800 contract firefighters, according to official statistics.

By contrast, there were more than 308,790 staff firefighters in the United States in 2014, who are paid on average $48,750, according to the U.S. labor department.

Firefighter Li Dong, in a statement posted on the State Fire Department's official social media account, said that his brigade's average monthly salary was $9,000 and they worked 335 days a year -- but suggested their low pay only served to show their love for the profession.

"Don't compare us to Japanese firefighters, they rest 48 hours after 24 hours of work, :rotfl: and we only get one day and a half off every week. Don't compare us to American firefighters, either. They get paid $48,000 for 110 days of work every year."

"Don't call us heroes; we don't want to be heroes, because we also have parents, wives and kids."


So they work 5.5 days a week, but are not trained? Are there THAT many fires to put out and cats to bring out of trees? There are not many trees evident here..

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby salaam » 18 Aug 2015 17:14

UlanBatori wrote:Apologies for completely tasteless and ghoulish observation, but how can there be 'brothers' or 'sisters' in the PRC? What happened to the one-child rule? Tragic in this case, of course. One learns something new every day.


One of the Chinese migrants to US (about 30 year old), told me that he had 3 siblings. When I asked him about the 1 child policy, he laughed and said "these policies are not enforced completely in rural areas".

This guy had also conveniently changed his name to one of the Friend's characters as soon as he landed. Again his words, "I was watching Friends and liked that name".

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2015 02:40

Over $625M in new cars alone.
:eek:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ad62904c-44ce ... z3jCtDvDOW

Chinese state media have reported that 8,000 cars worth an estimated Rmb4bn ($625m) were destroyed in the blasts, including 2,700 made by Germany’s Volkswagen and 1,500 by France’s Renault. Hyundai Motor of South Korea said 4,000 cars parked near the area were damaged while Japan’s Mitsubishi Motors put the potential damage at about 600 vehicles.


Isn't that number Berkeley-Stanford madarsa math? $78K per car for THOSE ugly yellow cars? :rotfl:

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Shreeman » 19 Aug 2015 10:47

FT.com says "insurers set 1.5B loss from tianjin" behind its paywall. This is mainly the volkswagons and renaults, and is in line with just the loss of cars/facilities. Ruihai itself wont get any insurance payments, Nor will tianjin. Nor will port, or the many small consignment shippers/owners? Nor will most victims. Total should be as predicted.

edit -- http://www.ibtimes.co.in/tianjin-afterm ... hes-643377
The first rain that hit Tianjin on Tuesday after the deadly blast raised more concerns as the streets were covered with white foam...


Oooooah, a hwite foam, you say?

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 19 Aug 2015 11:07

the soil will have to be dug up to some depth and carried away for processing. once these chemical agents get into the deep soil, nothing less will do.

in vietnam something similar is going on to mitigate the agent orange the king khan sprayed so liberally
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43437052/ns/w ... dQiyFOqpBc

http://learningenglish.voanews.com/cont ... 98173.html

they have to cook the soil at high temp and then check if the poisons are destroyed

knowing china, they will dig up the soil but dump it quietly off a barge into the Bo Hai bay, use it build squatter islands on some reef in the south, or just dump it into some unused mine in shaanxi or inner mongolia where nobody lives.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Aug 2015 15:53

Big savings on the train fare to Gobi Desert Re-Education Facility if the corporate execs can be profitably employed right there, too. Plus on the new islands so built across the Pacific/IndianChina Oceans.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby SaiK » 20 Aug 2015 02:20

here you go again
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... 1&cid=1101

never ending policy of lying, cheating, copying and infrigements

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Aug 2015 04:15

You have to admire them. No E-Z job, that. Compare that to certain ppl-hu-shall-not-b-named laying eggs trying to make an engine... much less to sell cheap to the outside duniya.

Which makes me wonder... y there r no Made In China F-135 injuns at War-Malt.

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby niran » 21 Aug 2015 14:22


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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby Singha » 21 Aug 2015 14:55

1000s of dead fish wash up near tianjian. official assures it is not due to chemical poisoning
http://time.com/4005872/china-tianjin-d ... h-cyanide/

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Re: China Watch Thread-I

Postby SaiK » 21 Aug 2015 19:52

so which is the other chemical then?


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